View Full Version : Future Villagers Don't Play Golf
coolkayaker1
07-31-2014, 10:50 AM
Forgive me if this has already been posted; if so, just let this fall down the boards.
Golf industry: Golf's perpetual problem: Courting the young adult (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101879956)
Noticed this article. I then sat back and thought about my three kids, age 20-30, and their spouses and friends, and the young people that I know (30s and 40s). They don't play golf. At all.
Our local country clubs (three within ten miles of my house) are begging for members (Illinois).
How do you all feel this will affect the future of TV, a supremely golf-centric place? Convert the golf courses for other activities? Morph into something that the 30-50 year old future homebuyers will appreciate more than golf? I don't know the answer, just that golf courses take a load of space and resources, costly.
Thoughts? Thanks. Future Villager, Sven
kwtoman
07-31-2014, 10:52 AM
My thoughts, if they don't play golf, they will either not buy here, or play pickleball.
gomoho
07-31-2014, 10:54 AM
Was wondering the same thing - since these kids coming up seem to be animal lovers perhaps they can turn them into giant dog parks! On a serious side - perhaps disk golf or beautiful walking trails or bike paths.
Bonny
07-31-2014, 11:01 AM
A lot of people I know here that golf, never golfed until they came here.
They were too busy working and raising kids. Many didn't have the extra money to join country clubs. Also the golfing season up north was much shorter than in Florida.
I suspect they will do what many of us did. Start golfing when they get here. :thumbup:
tuccillo
07-31-2014, 11:08 AM
So, you are essentially asking: "Are there too many golf courses?" I will make a few assumptions and do a few calculations. If we assume that you need 400 golfing homes to keep a golf course "busy" and that typically only 1/3 of the homes in a golfing community actually golf then we can do a few calculations.
400 homes x 3 = 1200 homes per golf course or 67 homes per hole of golf assuming only 1/3 of the homes play golf.
The Villages has approximately 600 holes of golf therefore you would need 41000 homes to keep the golf courses busy. I think we have about 50000 homes so I would suggest that the number of golf courses is on the low side. Thoughts?
Forgive me if this has already been posted; if so, just let this fall down the boards.
Golf industry: Golf's perpetual problem: Courting the young adult (http://www.cnbc.com/id/101879956)
Noticed this article. I then sat back and thought about my three kids, age 20-30, and their spouses and friends, and the young people that I know (30s and 40s). They don't play golf. At all.
Our local country clubs (three within ten miles of my house) are begging for members (Illinois).
How do you all feel this will affect the future of TV, a supremely golf-centric place? Convert the golf courses for other activities? Morph into something that the 30-50 year old future homebuyers will appreciate more than golf? I don't know the answer, just that golf courses take a load of space and resources, costly.
Thoughts? Thanks. Future Villager, Sven
coolkayaker1
07-31-2014, 11:17 AM
kwtoman, if they choose not to buy at TV, that's not good, right? Home values and collective property taxes, all that jazz. Will they elect buy TV and fund the infrastructure and upkeep of golf courses when they know they won;t be using them, just to play pickleball?
gomoho, I think converting all that acreage to something more fitting for them--that, in the end, they are willing to pay for in upkeep, property taxes, etc.--may be in the offing. Yes.
Good point, Bonny. We grew up in the Johnny Carson/Bob Hope, everyone golfs era. The non-golfers have, historically, at least been open to the idea. These newbies (under 40s) might shun it for life. Their icons and peers do not golf. I don't know. It's an interesting point: can enough of them be sold on it, or will they just avoid buying in TV bc of it from the get-go and never find out.
I like your theory, tuccillo, but I honestly think it takes many, many more than 400 golfing households to support a golf course year-round. If we collected the property taxes, or fees, from 400 golfing households, could we pay for a year-round course? That's a lot of upkeep, water, grass to mow. Many many full-time employees there. My assumption is that it would be much higher. Then the second assumption is that 1/3 of TV households are golfing homes. But, isn't that the point of the CNBC article--the future may well have 1/10th of homes being golfing households. So, if, say, it takes 1000 golfing households to support one course, and 1/10 houses are golfing, that would add up to a grotesque oversupply of links at TV. Don't know, though. Good way to think of it, but since it's all just guesswork from us both, there's no way to mathematically work it out, I think.
PS Here's a link from the USGA.
http://www.usga.org/course_care/articles/construction/general/Building-And-Maintaining-The-Truly-Affordable-Golf-Course/
So, bottom line, about $400-$600k annually to maintain and run a golf course, not including construction. Even at the low end, the 400 homes would have to spend $10000/each annually to run the thing. But 4000 homes would have to spend $1000 each (on the low end of maintenance spectrum) in fees and property taxes. Will they? I just wanted to share this cost article from the USGA, who is suffering for members, btw. Like the CNBC article states, 200,000 Millennials have dropped the game of golf last year alone! In one year! And less than 10% of golfers on the links now are under 30. I see a change a-comin'. lol.
billethkid
07-31-2014, 11:38 AM
for us the golf availability in TV was not the deciding factor. We did not move here to play golf.
While it may be a priority or key feature for many, I would guess there are just as many like us who were attracted by all the features/offerings of TV other than golf.
Since the golf courses here do not rely on a certain minimum level of play to remain a going concern.....I doubt there would ever be insufficient number of residents to play.
The draw of TV Lifestyle will always have sufficient numbers of future residents that do play.
coolkayaker1
07-31-2014, 11:46 AM
Since the golf courses here do not rely on a certain minimum level of play to remain a going concern.....
I have never heard of a golf course that does not rely on a minimum level of play to be sustained. The ones I know are either sustained by property taxes, expensive club memberships, or greens fees.
How are they funded at TV, please?
coloradotim
07-31-2014, 12:54 PM
I agree with Bonny that many senior golfers take up the game later in life. My wife never golfed at all until her mom invited her to try it - now she's hooked! She got me playing again after I hadn't played since I was in my 20's. We golf twice a week in Colorado and we are looking forward to our lifestyle preview stay at the end of August to play a couple of rounds at the Villages.
cmj1210
07-31-2014, 02:39 PM
I do not play golf & we just purchased a home. We do plan on taking it up once we finally get down permanently but golf was not our first priority. There are so many other things people can do if the don't golf. It is just a beautiful place.
Madelaine Amee
07-31-2014, 02:55 PM
for us the golf availability in TV was not the deciding factor. We did not move here to play golf.
While it may be a priority or key feature for many, I would guess there are just as many like us who were attracted by all the features/offerings of TV other than golf.
Since the golf courses here do not rely on a certain minimum level of play to remain a going concern.....I doubt there would ever be insufficient number of residents to play.
The draw of TV Lifestyle will always have sufficient numbers of future residents that do play.
AGREE! I used to enjoy playing golf every weekend, but have found other pastimes which I much prefer to playing golf!
Bavarian
07-31-2014, 03:02 PM
I think the worry is that between this and fewer people saving for retirement under new retirement schemes, ie, no guaranteed pension, who will buy these homes when we become so much less young that we need to sell and move to an apartment.
tuccillo
07-31-2014, 03:16 PM
My numbers of 400 playing homes to support a golf course is based on a country club setting. The Villages is probably different in that the amount of money that each home is willing to dedicate towards golf is probably lower. However, if you have a couple of fairly active players in a house and they are each playing a couple of times a week it then a course can be busy with 400 playing homes. The "1/3 of the homes play golf" number is typical, I believe, for gated golf communities. Again, The Villages is different so it is hard to say. After thinking about it a bit, my figure of 67 homes per hole is probably too low as you suggested. I agree that the demographics are not good. This was a problem in our previous gated golf community. As people aged they dropped the golf membership and the newer/younger people were less likely to play. This inevitably leads to a death spiral. I would think that the current "model" for The Villages is probably good for another 10 years or so. The courses seem to be pretty busy now but I agree that the future is uncertain. I would guess/hope that The Villages monitors the level of play and the number of executive and 18-hole courses reflects reasonable assumptions about the future, otherwise the courses will become a liability.
kwtoman, if they choose not to buy at TV, that's not good, right? Home values and collective property taxes, all that jazz. Will they elect buy TV and fund the infrastructure and upkeep of golf courses when they know they won;t be using them, just to play pickleball?
gomoho, I think converting all that acreage to something more fitting for them--that, in the end, they are willing to pay for in upkeep, property taxes, etc.--may be in the offing. Yes.
Good point, Bonny. We grew up in the Johnny Carson/Bob Hope, everyone golfs era. The non-golfers have, historically, at least been open to the idea. These newbies (under 40s) might shun it for life. Their icons and peers do not golf. I don't know. It's an interesting point: can enough of them be sold on it, or will they just avoid buying in TV bc of it from the get-go and never find out.
I like your theory, tuccillo, but I honestly think it takes many, many more than 400 golfing households to support a golf course year-round. If we collected the property taxes, or fees, from 400 golfing households, could we pay for a year-round course? That's a lot of upkeep, water, grass to mow. Many many full-time employees there. My assumption is that it would be much higher. Then the second assumption is that 1/3 of TV households are golfing homes. But, isn't that the point of the CNBC article--the future may well have 1/10th of homes being golfing households. So, if, say, it takes 1000 golfing households to support one course, and 1/10 houses are golfing, that would add up to a grotesque oversupply of links at TV. Don't know, though. Good way to think of it, but since it's all just guesswork from us both, there's no way to mathematically work it out, I think.
PS Here's a link from the USGA.
USGA: USGA (http://www.usga.org/course_care/articles/construction/general/Building-And-Maintaining-The-Truly-Affordable-Golf-Course/)
So, bottom line, about $400-$600k annually to maintain and run a golf course, not including construction. Even at the low end, the 400 homes would have to spend $10000/each annually to run the thing. But 4000 homes would have to spend $1000 each (on the low end of maintenance spectrum) in fees and property taxes. Will they? I just wanted to share this cost article from the USGA, who is suffering for members, btw. Like the CNBC article states, 200,000 Millennials have dropped the game of golf last year alone! In one year! And less than 10% of golfers on the links now are under 30. I see a change a-comin'. lol.
rubicon
07-31-2014, 03:35 PM
Much to do about nothing. golf takes a lot of time, takes time to learn. We all reach that point in our lives when we find more time. i can think of far more legiimate reasons as to why people wuld stop buying here
nicoletta
07-31-2014, 03:39 PM
it will be a ghostown ....in 50 years due to to unrecognized decline
or
they will build MORE HOMES!
Rubicon is correct .there are many variables with the world economy .. Tv could become the next Detroit!
eweissenbach
07-31-2014, 04:07 PM
There will only be about 60K homes in TV at build out unless more land is acquired. There will be plenty of golfer demand available to meet the ultimate supply. And as others have stated, there are many other good reasons to buy in The Villages other than golfe.
rubicon
07-31-2014, 04:24 PM
since 2003 the industry estimates that the spot lost 5 million people. It claimed young people won't play because the sport lacks diversity and is not inclusive. The industry is working many programs to regain that interest.
First as to the claims of lack of diversity and inclusions people should remember there are many programs such as First TEE that shows this is a spacious claim. The industry is dong things like courses offering none hole play all year at an avg of $23. the avg cost for 18 holes is $52 (WSJ)
when you read or hear ready golf, while were young ,etc this a promotion by the golf industry to address the complaint that golf takes too long.
When you hear or read about playing the forward tees its the industry's attempt at making the game easier and more fun just as the 6 inch hole on the green is created to do.
maybe
07-31-2014, 04:41 PM
I suspect that if Villagers ever fail to play enough to keep the courses busy, and folks start to suggest closing and converting some courses, management would find a way to open the courses a bit more for outsiders to pay to play.
I would not mind closing one to make room for a multi-purpose gym.
Dr Winston O Boogie jr
07-31-2014, 04:45 PM
This has been an ongoing concern in the golf industry for as long as I can remember. In my opinion, the concern is unfounded. Just take a look around the country at all the high school golf teams.
Junior golf programs are at an all time high. The National Drive-Chip-Putt contest was just televised from Augusta National Golf Club and has increased interest in golf among young people.
The USGA and the PGA have done a great job of introducing golf to kids and especially inner city kids. Those two organization will continue to work tirelessly to bring more people, including kids, to the game and they will be successful.
I have heard the same story ever since I started in the golf business back in 1974 and each year I saw more and more kids playing. I predict that trend will continue. I also predict that the major golf organization will continue to preach that we are not doing enough while the game continues to grow.
Think about this. How many kids were playing golf in the 50s and 60s? I'd bet it was a hole lot less than it is now. If that's the case how is it that there are so many golfer today that were kids in those decades and did not play when they were kids.
FlamingoFlo
07-31-2014, 05:18 PM
We don't play golf but fell in love at first sight with this place. We find so many other things to do and love the community. We just love going everywhere in our cart. The location is close to so many other attractions also. I think there are a lot of people here that don't play golf. I do wish they would put in a mini golf course. I know we and a number of our friends would go and it would be great when the kids are here.
Nightengale212
07-31-2014, 05:37 PM
Hubby and I very much want to retire in TV. Hubby plays golf rarely, and me never played and have no interest in the game. What is of interest to me is the swim team as I am a former competitive swimmer. I also sculpt, paint, craft, bicycle, active in my church, and TV seems to have all these activities just a golf cart ride away. Hubby also bikes, sails, woodworks, plays cards, and loves to grill so I am sure he will be pretty actively content in TV also. If golf was the only activity that TV offered we would be looking at other places to retire.
TheVillageChicken
07-31-2014, 06:07 PM
kwtoman, if they choose not to buy at TV, that's not good, right? Home values and collective property taxes, all that jazz. Will they elect buy TV and fund the infrastructure and upkeep of golf courses when they know they won;t be using them, just to play pickleball?
gomoho, I think converting all that acreage to something more fitting for them--that, in the end, they are willing to pay for in upkeep, property taxes, etc.--may be in the offing. Yes.
Good point, Bonny. We grew up in the Johnny Carson/Bob Hope, everyone golfs era. The non-golfers have, historically, at least been open to the idea. These newbies (under 40s) might shun it for life. Their icons and peers do not golf. I don't know. It's an interesting point: can enough of them be sold on it, or will they just avoid buying in TV bc of it from the get-go and never find out.
I like your theory, tuccillo, but I honestly think it takes many, many more than 400 golfing households to support a golf course year-round. If we collected the property taxes, or fees, from 400 golfing households, could we pay for a year-round course? That's a lot of upkeep, water, grass to mow. Many many full-time employees there. My assumption is that it would be much higher. Then the second assumption is that 1/3 of TV households are golfing homes. But, isn't that the point of the CNBC article--the future may well have 1/10th of homes being golfing households. So, if, say, it takes 1000 golfing households to support one course, and 1/10 houses are golfing, that would add up to a grotesque oversupply of links at TV. Don't know, though. Good way to think of it, but since it's all just guesswork from us both, there's no way to mathematically work it out, I think.
PS Here's a link from the USGA.
USGA: USGA (http://www.usga.org/course_care/articles/construction/general/Building-And-Maintaining-The-Truly-Affordable-Golf-Course/)
So, bottom line, about $400-$600k annually to maintain and run a golf course, not including construction. Even at the low end, the 400 homes would have to spend $10000/each annually to run the thing. But 4000 homes would have to spend $1000 each (on the low end of maintenance spectrum) in fees and property taxes. Will they? I just wanted to share this cost article from the USGA, who is suffering for members, btw. Like the CNBC article states, 200,000 Millennials have dropped the game of golf last year alone! In one year! And less than 10% of golfers on the links now are under 30. I see a change a-comin'. lol.
You might want to recheck your math. If 400 homes spend $10K each, that equals $4 Million
2BNTV
07-31-2014, 06:41 PM
I moved here last year in May, 2013 and have not played a round of golf. Too many other interests. I don't feel like I have been deprived.
I seriously doubt whether golf courses would go under, if younger people don't want to play golf. Some sports keep on growing, with the young people of a newer generation.
Besides, Gary Morse is a billionaire and made sound business decisions. He and his family know, what they are doing!!!
What's the worst that can happen if they are not supportable. He probably use the land, to build more houses.
OMG - He will make more money!!!
Does anyone know, what percentage of household play golf, every week?
Dr Winston O Boogie jr
07-31-2014, 07:23 PM
If I recall correctly there are 100,000 people in The Villages and only about 30,000 golfers.
We're not totally dependent on golfers.
Jejuca
07-31-2014, 07:56 PM
2BNTV - I agree with you completely. If they find they aren't using the golf courses they will build other things on them!
andercat
07-31-2014, 08:08 PM
I moved here to the Villages from Sun City West, AZ. We were a community of about 28,000 folks and had 7 golf courses. All had 18 holes of golf. However, three were called executive and four were championship courses. When we moved into the community, the courses were for residents and their guests only. None were free. They had all sorts of plans from yearly fees to just pay for a round of golf when you wanted to play. What happened as the community aged, was the number of rounds of golf decreased. In an attempt to get more players they started something called controlled neighborhood play. There are many 55+ communities in the vicinity of Sun City West and golf courses were opened to these folks. (The nonresidents paid a little more but nothing exorbitant.) The rounds of golf kept declining. The courses are now open to anyone. No age restrictions at all. Originally golf was supposed to be self-sustaining. Our yearly amenity fee was less than $300 per person. They had to change the by-laws to use money from the annual amenity fee to subsidize golf. When we left the annual fee had risen to over $400 per person. Some folks wanted to decrease the number of golf courses down from 7 to 5 or 6. The problem with re-purposing a golf course that the home owners with homes along the course have a deed saying they have golf frontage. You would have to get 100% per cent to agree to change the golf course over to something else. If you made it into a park, you would still need to maintain it and now there would be no revenue coming in from golf fees. It is an interesting problem and I don’t know the answer.
VT2TV
07-31-2014, 08:13 PM
I think there will be a actual shortage of tee times in the short future in the Villages. The number of available times are going to be too few, especially this winter and over all for quite a while. But there are a lot of teens, pre-teens, and younger kids who are learning golf, some even in school, at least in certain areas. I can't image the Villages ever having too many golf courses, quite the opposite in my opinion.
DigitalGranny
07-31-2014, 08:18 PM
Hubby plays golf, I plan to learn. Even if we never played, I'd be attracted to the beautiful green spaces of the courses! I want to live where there is grass and trees. We are thrilled with our 1987 "new" home on the Orange a Blossom course. So happy to see TV spending $$$$ to refurbish the country club and beautiful pool and redoing the golf courser. Imagine the developer keeping the " historic" amenities nice!!! I am so happy to be moving to TV, and the historic side is just right for us!
Dr Winston O Boogie jr
07-31-2014, 08:46 PM
I moved here to the Villages from Sun City West, AZ. We were a community of about 28,000 folks and had 7 golf courses. All had 18 holes of golf. However, three were called executive and four were championship courses. When we moved into the community, the courses were for residents and their guests only. None were free. They had all sorts of plans from yearly fees to just pay for a round of golf when you wanted to play. What happened as the community aged, was the number of rounds of golf decreased. In an attempt to get more players they started something called controlled neighborhood play. There are many 55+ communities in the vicinity of Sun City West and golf courses were opened to these folks. (The nonresidents paid a little more but nothing exorbitant.) The rounds of golf kept declining. The courses are now open to anyone. No age restrictions at all. Originally golf was supposed to be self-sustaining. Our yearly amenity fee was less than $300 per person. They had to change the by-laws to use money from the annual amenity fee to subsidize golf. When we left the annual fee had risen to over $400 per person. Some folks wanted to decrease the number of golf courses down from 7 to 5 or 6. The problem with re-purposing a golf course that the home owners with homes along the course have a deed saying they have golf frontage. You would have to get 100% per cent to agree to change the golf course over to something else. If you made it into a park, you would still need to maintain it and now there would be no revenue coming in from golf fees. It is an interesting problem and I don’t know the answer.
It's funny that you say as the age of the residents went up the golf decreased. This thread is concerned that the number of rounds will go down as the age of the residents decreases. And I do believe that the average age in this community is going slightly down. Many of the people who leave are our oldest residents pass on. Most of the new people coming in are newly retired.
Now, in your case, you have moved from one over 55 community to another, but I think that you are the exception and not the rule.
upstate
07-31-2014, 09:03 PM
We bought last year and neither of us plays golf, neither do our neighbors. The setting and the activities of TV sold us, not the golf courses.
Avista
08-01-2014, 12:52 AM
We don't play golf and have enjoyed living here last 7 years!
andercat
08-01-2014, 06:57 AM
It's funny that you say as the age of the residents went up the golf decreased. This thread is concerned that the number of rounds will go down as the age of the residents decreases. And I do believe that the average age in this community is going slightly down. Many of the people who leave are our oldest residents pass on. Most of the new people coming in are newly retired.
Now, in your case, you have moved from one over 55 community to another, but I think that you are the exception and not the rule.
Sun city West built out in 1998. As people get older, physical limitations make it more difficult to play a round of golf. I knew many folks who played when they initially retired but as they aged they gave the game up. If the aging folks can't play do to physical constraints and the young retirees simply are not interested in the game I think the amount of rounds will decline in the future.
NottaVillager
08-01-2014, 08:17 AM
FWIW...Ed Stack the CEO of Dick's Sporting Goods recently remarked that the golf section of their business has fallen off greatly owing to that fact that younger people are simply not taking up the sport.
coolkayaker1
08-02-2014, 01:47 PM
There are some great replies here, thanks. Interesting reading. Many of the replies comment how they, personally, don't like golf but move to TV anyhow. That is great, but not the point of the thread, of course. The thread is about the lackluster future of golf, and subsidizing golf courses, at TV for future owners (i.e. the ones that will buy into, and fiscally support, TV in the future when the vast majority have no interest in golf, which seems to be the trend).
Some have chimed in with agreement about the decline of golf (including the CEO of Dick's Sports, who knows his business). Golf stores are closing nationwide. It's a reality. Even though colleges and high schools have golf teams, that has all been factored in by the USGA, who reports a decline in young players of historic proportions (post #1)
Andercat makes some points based on experience out west (post #26, see reply below this one). Wow, that is meaningful what happened out there, and it probably reflects what may happen in Florida. I never imagined the angle that some homeowners have paid for houses on golf courses, and to eliminate the course cannot legally happen. Excellent thought. And furthermore, if I owned on a golf course home, would I want my backyard opened up to every rowdy public group of players coming over from Ocala to bat some balls and down some brews for cheap greens fees? (using the example of reality in Arizona).
Bavarian (post #12) summarized the issue well: it's not that people won't enjoy the other reasons/activities to live at TV; it's that they will refuse to fund the golf courses (and thus will choose to live elsewhere). Or, the golf courses could be repurposed to something more popular (but can they, as Andercat points out?) Will there be a savior for golf, another superstar like Tiger? Will that do it?
My wife has a gal pal that lives in a jet-set condo in Fort Meyers: restaurants (owned by the condo assoc!), private Gulf beach, twin pools, the works! Her monthly fees: $1800/month. Sellers: "Why can't I sell this great place...look at these amenities." Buyers: "Because I don't want to own a restaurant and will seldom use two pools. I aint' paying the fees, so I ain't buyin' your place."
Like you say and calculate, Tuccillo--and we are on the same page--it's a cost and space factor, those courses. I don;t have the answer either.
coolkayaker1
08-02-2014, 02:02 PM
I moved here to the Villages from Sun City West, AZ. We were a community of about 28,000 folks and had 7 golf courses. All had 18 holes of golf. However, three were called executive and four were championship courses. When we moved into the community, the courses were for residents and their guests only. None were free. They had all sorts of plans from yearly fees to just pay for a round of golf when you wanted to play. What happened as the community aged, was the number of rounds of golf decreased. In an attempt to get more players they started something called controlled neighborhood play. There are many 55+ communities in the vicinity of Sun City West and golf courses were opened to these folks. (The nonresidents paid a little more but nothing exorbitant.) The rounds of golf kept declining. The courses are now open to anyone. No age restrictions at all. Originally golf was supposed to be self-sustaining. Our yearly amenity fee was less than $300 per person. They had to change the by-laws to use money from the annual amenity fee to subsidize golf. When we left the annual fee had risen to over $400 per person. Some folks wanted to decrease the number of golf courses down from 7 to 5 or 6. The problem with re-purposing a golf course that the home owners with homes along the course have a deed saying they have golf frontage. You would have to get 100% per cent to agree to change the golf course over to something else. If you made it into a park, you would still need to maintain it and now there would be no revenue coming in from golf fees. It is an interesting problem and I don’t know the answer.
Lots to think about. Thanks for sharing your real-life experience, Andercat.
andercat
08-02-2014, 04:02 PM
Does anyone know what guarantees are given in TV if you buy on a golf course frontage? Could a course be eliminated? I think the folks on the golf frontage would cry bloody murder. They paid a premium to get a lot on a golf course. Is there anything in the closing documents that say you will always have a golf frontage? I don't know how it works in TV.
Yorio
08-02-2014, 04:22 PM
There are only few serious golfers in TV. In most cases we don't bet. In most cases we don't seriously count scores. I wouldn't be surprised many don't have USGA handicaps. We just have good time under the sun and go drinking and eating after that. Many started here to play golf and we don't care if they want to have tees on the fare way or have mulligans every hole. I may be exaggerating but it is a different kind of golf play from up north. I didn't care for it initially but I Love it now. I am not even an 18 Holer now. If indeed they have only fewer golfers left, management can easily make Central Park, Boston Commons or Hyde Park out of ex-golf courses!
Barefoot
08-02-2014, 04:32 PM
A lot of people I know here that golf, never golfed until they came here.
They were too busy working and raising kids. Many didn't have the extra money to join country clubs. Also the golfing season up north was much shorter than in Florida.
I suspect they will do what many of us did. Start golfing when they get here. :thumbup:
Exactly. Golf is a friendly activity for golden agers who aren't active enough for jogging or baseball.
Didiwinbob
08-02-2014, 09:20 PM
Exactly. Golf is a friendly activity for golden agers who aren't active enough for jogging or baseball.
Barefoot-- Golf is not friendly to me. It's steals my golf balls, makes me bend over to pour sand/grass seed on my duffs, a bake in the golf cart while waiting to hit a ball 150 yards the wrong way, and leaves me with the feeling that I have to return soon to repeat this time and again!!!! Golf is the better of the other choices as serious injuries WILL exist if I attempt jogging(falling on blacktop) or baseball (getting bonged in body by softballs and other players trying to cover my position cause I needed to scratch something,
Barefoot
08-02-2014, 10:52 PM
Barefoot-- Golf is not friendly to me. It's steals my golf balls, makes me bend over to pour sand/grass seed on my duffs, a bake in the golf cart while waiting to hit a ball 150 yards the wrong way, and leaves me with the feeling that I have to return soon to repeat this time and again!!!! Golf is the better of the other choices as serious injuries WILL exist if I attempt jogging(falling on blacktop) or baseball (getting bonged in body by softballs and other players trying to cover my position cause I needed to scratch something,
didiwinbob, Yeah, I get it, golf isn't that friendly to me either. But I think you're in agreement that however "challenging" golf can be, it's nevertheless addictive. And golf is an outdoor activity that can be enjoyed (perhaps enjoyed is the wrong word) into old age.
Chi-Town
08-05-2014, 12:48 PM
This video is quite informative. ...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QFEYC4Z44v0&sns=fb
coolkayaker1
08-05-2014, 01:17 PM
This video is quite informative. ...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QFEYC4Z44v0&sns=fb
Chi-town, thank you! What a video!!! And for Bryant Gumbel and ESPN to highlight the course in Florida really drives the point home. Mandatory viewing, all interested in this topic.
The only ones to benefit from the golfing bust are the feral pigs.
It does beg the question about the courses at the golf wonderland of central FL, The Villages.
What can I see? Owners of golf-side lots being paid cash for giving TV the right to level some of the courses and put up more homes. Lot of pressure from those not living on the courses for those on the courses to take the deal so that they can all enjoy a lowered burden of paying for links upkeep.
Buying a golf course home in this environment is akin to buying a home on a lake during a prolonged drought. :sigh:
Chi-Town
08-05-2014, 02:05 PM
One thing that I have noticed is that our (Villagers) children who come here to visit want to move here one day. And usually soon. That's a good sign. And I think the executive courses are a key to their golfing fun and fun overall.
Barefoot
08-05-2014, 05:49 PM
This video is quite informative. ...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QFEYC4Z44v0&sns=fb
Thanks for posting Chi-Town.
That's a fascinating look at golf's future.
eweissenbach
08-05-2014, 07:14 PM
I doubt that I would play the 15 inch holes if I were given the option, but it would have no problem if some courses offered that to get beginners in the game. When I hear some of the "traditionalists" complain about dumbing down the game, I then see them teeing off from the forward tees, which makes sense, but seems to me to be a similar concept. People are also playing with clubs and balls that didn't exist years ago, and I hear few people complain that it is ruining the game.
Baseball was invented almost 150 years ago and is played by young people all over the world. Why not allow older folks to play with a larger ball that is thrown underhand and doesn't travel as far or fast? You could even shorten the dimensions of the field and call it something else, for example.
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