I'm very concerned about whats going on in Iraq. Are you?

[Suzi]

I find this recent muslim ISIS group very scary. I choose not to get into the debate about how long we have been aware of this group, but now that we all are aware of their march through Syria and Iraq, their brutality and growth, what are we going to do? If their goal is to conquer the world, spread Islam only and kill anyone who is another faith, how long before it hits our shores?

What is your take on this whole thing? Doesn't it seem like their fundemantalist movement is gaining speed in the Mid-east?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I'm glad to see that our president is finally taking some action to at least help those poor souls being held captive on a mountain with no food, water or shelter.

I don't know what the answer is beyond that, but we spent a lot of money and gave a lot lot of lives to oust the Hussein regime and install a democratically elected government. Are we now supposed to sit back and allow all of that work and sacrifice to got to waste?

I don't like the idea of another ground war, but I also don't like the idea of parents, wives and husbands of those who gave their lives to bring democracy to Iraq seeing that their loved ones died for no reason.

Back in the 80s, Colin Powell told GHW Bush that if we invaded Iraq, we would own it. A decade later he supported the UN action and I'm afraid that he was right. We invaded it and now we own it.

[nicoletta]

Iran owns it..as WE exited ..IRAN sent fighters across ..we did IRAN a favor I fear

[Chi-Town]

When Hussein was in power there was no Isis and no al Qaeda. There was a powerful dictator with an iron fist. Iran was a mortal enemy. We took him out for the flimsiest of reasons, and I would be hard pressed to consider the new government a democracy by any means. And to go back in and try it again is some form of insanity.

[Madelaine Amee]

When Hussein was in power there was no Isis and no al Qaeda. There was a powerful dictator with an iron fist. Iran was a mortal enemy. We took him out for the flimsiest of reasons, and I would be hard pressed to consider the new government a democracy by any means. And to go back in and try it again is some form of insanity.

It is a mess of gigantic proportions and, in my opinion, was caused by our greed for their OIL. I am very glad I don't have to make the decisions about how to handle it. Al Qaeda were bad enough, now these crazies appear ...............

[OCsun]

When Hussein was in power there was no Isis and no al Qaeda. There was a powerful dictator with an iron fist. Iran was a mortal enemy. We took him out for the flimsiest of reasons, and I would be hard pressed to consider the new government a democracy by any means. And to go back in and try it again is some form of insanity.

:agree::agree::agree:

[karostay]

As a nation we unleashed a more evil Jeanie out of the bottle now the world has to deal with it.We should have stayed out of it

[blueash]

If we don't go in then evil anti-American people will take control and one nation after another will fall to their ruthless armies and crush their freedom loving population. We are all old enough to remember that line from Vietnam where we propped up one incompetent government after another and sacrificed about 60,000 soldiers. Then we left and now Vietnam is a vibrant economy and there was certainly no domino effect that negatively impacted our national security nor interests. We have backed out of conflicts with a cost of both lives and treasure (see Beirut 1984 ). We need not go back in to somehow justify the sacrifices we sadly have already made. Is showing how tough we can be in imposing our will against Muslims going to be the test for succeeding in politics like being anti-Communist was in the '50s?

[Steve9930]

Hind sight is like a rear view mirror always 20/20. So to blame anyone at this point about what we should have or shouldn't have done is a total waste of time. The important thing is to do the right thing now. The president has taken a good first step. I hope he will escalate the support for especially the Kurds if necessary. The Kurds are probably one of our best allies in the region. They are very good fighters and if we supply them with the equipment they should get the job done. Make no mistake this new group ISIS is no JV unit. They are well organized, well funded, and well trained. They are a major threat and should they take complete control in the region the dynamics in the reagion are going to change and not for the good. This may require boots on the ground as we cannot let ISIS win this fight. The first approach is to make sure those that are fighting against ISIS get the equipment they need to wage the battle. If we ignore this threat we will be very sorry in the future. ISIS will strike the USA if they get a chance and they will have no problem with killing anyone, that includes women and children. One of the biggest threat to us currently is there is at least 100 Americans fighting with ISIS. These individuals will be very hard to identify if they decide to return to wage war inside the US. This is a very scary time in history. With the trouble in Iraq, Russia, and Israel one cannot wonder whether the end time may be just around the corner.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Hind sight is like a rear view mirror always 20/20. So to blame anyone at this point about what we should have or shouldn't have done is a total waste of time. The important thing is to do the right thing now. The president has taken a good first step. I hope he will escalate the support for especially the Kurds if necessary. The Kurds are probably one of our best allies in the region. They are very good fighters and if we supply them with the equipment they should get the job done. Make no mistake this new group ISIS is no JV unit. They are well organized, well funded, and well trained. They are a major threat and should they take complete control in the region the dynamics in the reagion are going to change and not for the good. This may require boots on the ground as we cannot let ISIS win this fight. The first approach is to make sure those that are fighting against ISIS get the equipment they need to wage the battle. If we ignore this threat we will be very sorry in the future. ISIS will strike the USA if they get a chance and they will have no problem with killing anyone, that includes women and children. One of the biggest threat to us currently is there is at least 100 Americans fighting with ISIS. These individuals will be very hard to identify if they decide to return to wage war inside the US. This is a very scary time in history. With the trouble in Iraq, Russia, and Israel one cannot wonder whether the end time may be just around the corner.


This about sums it up.

[Steve9930]

If we don't go in then evil anti-American people will take control and one nation after another will fall to their ruthless armies and crush their freedom loving population. We are all old enough to remember that line from Vietnam where we propped up one incompetent government after another and sacrificed about 60,000 soldiers. Then we left and now Vietnam is a vibrant economy and there was certainly no domino effect that negatively impacted our national security nor interests. We have backed out of conflicts with a cost of both lives and treasure (see Beirut 1984 ). We need not go back in to somehow justify the sacrifices we sadly have already made. Is showing how tough we can be in imposing our will against Muslims going to be the test for succeeding in politics like being anti-Communist was in the '50s?

The enemy we face today is far different then who we faced in the past. We were on the brink in Vietnam of making the North throw in the towel had we just continued to bomb them just a bit longer. ISIS is different as there is little we can do to ware them down. There is no point in at which they say, I'm tired of the fight, I want to stop. They are barbaric in their tactics, they have no compassion for their enemy, and they believe, really believe, that what they are doing is God's will. If they die in this battle they will be rewarded. We are in a real war and should we think otherwise we will be sorry. We are about to enter a holy war. There is no way to appease ISIS except if your dead.

[onslowe]

I do not think this situation can be seen in any way as imperialism by the US. This is protection of Americans there and finally, at last thank God, protection of Iraqi Christians who are being killed and oppressed by crazed Muslims as though it were the eighth century.

It is self interest and a moral, yes moral duty for those of us who don't believe that "everything is relative" and one religion is as bad or good as the next a la the embarrassingly silly "C*O*E*X*I*S*T bumper stickers.

In the eighth century and later, Muslims spread into Europe, and were only stopped by force not wishful thinking. I have concerns now about history repeating itself especially when I neither hear nor read of any supposedly moderate Muslims denouncing the violence. Silence in America, Europe, and of course, the Mid East. I am repeatedly told those 'voices' exist and are here… really?

[bluedog103]

Hind sight is like a rear view mirror always 20/20. So to blame anyone at this point about what we should have or shouldn't have done is a total waste of time. The important thing is to do the right thing now. The president has taken a good first step. I hope he will escalate the support for especially the Kurds if necessary. The Kurds are probably one of our best allies in the region. They are very good fighters and if we supply them with the equipment they should get the job done. Make no mistake this new group ISIS is no JV unit. They are well organized, well funded, and well trained. They are a major threat and should they take complete control in the region the dynamics in the reagion are going to change and not for the good. This may require boots on the ground as we cannot let ISIS win this fight. The first approach is to make sure those that are fighting against ISIS get the equipment they need to wage the battle. If we ignore this threat we will be very sorry in the future. ISIS will strike the USA if they get a chance and they will have no problem with killing anyone, that includes women and children. One of the biggest threat to us currently is there is at least 100 Americans fighting with ISIS. These individuals will be very hard to identify if they decide to return to wage war inside the US. This is a very scary time in history. With the trouble in Iraq, Russia, and Israel one cannot wonder whether the end time may be just around the corner.
Well thought out post. I wish our leaders were as insightful.

[sunnyatlast]

When Hussein was in power there was no Isis and no al Qaeda. There was a powerful dictator with an iron fist. Iran was a mortal enemy. We took him out for the flimsiest of reasons, and I would be hard pressed to consider the new government a democracy by any means. And to go back in and try it again is some form of insanity.

"When Hussein was in power there was no Isis and no al Qaeda." Yeah. Right. That's why Pres. Clinton was trying to get Bin Laden way back in the 1990s.

"Al-Qaeda (/ælˈkaɪdə/ al-ky-də; Arabic: القاعدة‎ al-qāʿidah, Arabic: [ælqɑːʕɪdɐ], translation: "The Base" and alternatively spelled al-Qaida and sometimes al-Qa'ida) is a global militant Islamist and Wahhabist organization founded by Osama bin Laden, Abdullah Azzam, and several other militants, at some point between August 1988 and late 1989, with its origins being traceable to the Soviet war in Afghanistan. It operates as a network comprising both a multinational, stateless army and a radical Wahhabi Muslim movement calling for global jihad and a strict interpretation of sharia law. It has been designated as a terrorist organization by the United Nations Security Council, NATO, the European Union, the United States, Russia, India and various other countries (see below). Al-Qaeda has carried out many attacks targets it considers kafir. Amidst the Syrian civil war, Al-Qaeda factions started fighting each other, as well as the Kurds and government.

Al-Qaeda has attacked civilian and military targets in various countries, including the September 11 attacks, 1998 U.S. embassy bombings and the 2002 Bali bombings." wikipedia

[Tennisnut]

If we don't go in then evil anti-American people will take control and one nation after another will fall to their ruthless armies and crush their freedom loving population. We are all old enough to remember that line from Vietnam where we propped up one incompetent government after another and sacrificed about 60,000 soldiers. Then we left and now Vietnam is a vibrant economy and there was certainly no domino effect that negatively impacted our national security nor interests. We have backed out of conflicts with a cost of both lives and treasure (see Beirut 1984 ). We need not go back in to somehow justify the sacrifices we sadly have already made. Is showing how tough we can be in imposing our will against Muslims going to be the test for succeeding in politics like being anti-Communist was in the '50s?

I agree!! Sometimes we do learn from past history. Hopefully, we will not make the same mistakes again with American blood.

[B767drvr]

I do think it's important to ALWAYS evaluate past strategies and outcomes so that we learn from our mistakes (both diplomatically and militarily) and are more effective and efficient in future conflicts. Many people predicted a civil war along tribal lines if the brutal dictator Hussein was removed from power. We've seen the same thing in Libya and Egypt most recently. At some point you have to choose the lesser of two evils. Which route results in the least loss of life commensurate with maintaining our national interest? Did Hussein kill more or did 8+ years of war and now a civil war among tribes?

My PERSONAL (Libertarian) opinion is to basically allow civil wars and regional conflicts to be decided locally, interfering ONLY when America's strategic national interest is threatened (Syria most recently.) In Iraq I would arm the Kurds in the north with modern weaponry, let Iran arm and defend the Shia's in the south, and ISIS will (unfortunately) get its weapons/funding by sympathetic Sunni friends. There are a lot of nations with strategic national interests and security concerns jockeying in this part of the world. DO NOT put US boots on the ground and spill any more blood policing this bad neighborhood.

For those that truly have a fear for the future all I can say is that the US military is incredibly capable and has a devastating arsenal of weaponry. What it lacks, or rather is constrained by, is the political will to unleash any more than tiny bits of it. The ENTIRE country of Iraq could quite easily be leveled (similar to the terrible scenes in Gaza) in just a few days using airpower alone if it weren't for the massive loss of life that would ensue (MILLIONS.) The world community simply won't stand for that level of brutality and destruction… and rightly so. Therefore, we use "surgical" airstrikes dropping a few dozen 500 lb bombs and essentially tap the enemy on the head with what amounts to a little wooden chopstick. Make no mistake though, we are capable of killing the bad guy if the political will exists. And by political will… I'm referring to "acceptable" collateral civilian damage as very little is truly "surgical" on this scale.

Just my thoughts though… your mileage may vary.

[Chi-Town]

"When Hussein was in power there was no Isis and no al Qaeda." Yeah. Right. That's why Pres. Clinton was trying to get Bin Laden way back in the 1990s.

"Al-Qaeda (/ælˈkaɪdə/ al-ky-də; Arabic: القاعدة‎ al-qāʿidah, Arabic: [ælqɑːʕɪdɐ], translation: "The Base" and alternatively spelled al-Qaida and sometimes al-Qa'ida) is a global militant Islamist and Wahhabist organization founded by Osama bin Laden, Abdullah Azzam, and several other militants, at some point between August 1988 and late 1989, with its origins being traceable to the Soviet war in Afghanistan. It operates as a network comprising both a multinational, stateless army and a radical Wahhabi Muslim movement calling for global jihad and a strict interpretation of sharia law. It has been designated as a terrorist organization by the United Nations Security Council, NATO, the European Union, the United States, Russia, India and various other countries (see below). Al-Qaeda has carried out many attacks targets it considers kafir. Amidst the Syrian civil war, Al-Qaeda factions started fighting each other, as well as the Kurds and government.

Al-Qaeda has attacked civilian and military targets in various countries, including the September 11 attacks, 1998 U.S. embassy bombings and the 2002 Bali bombings." wikipedia

Calm down. I was referencing Iraq in my post. No al Qaeda in Iraq when Hussein was in power.

[zonerboy]

Ever wonder where terrorist groups such as ISIS and Hamas get the money for their missiles and other weaponry??
Answer:
From us. Every dollar we spend on Arab oil helps arm and support these groups. We need energy independence NOW!

[Bogie Shooter]

Ever wonder where terrorist groups such as ISIS and Hamas get the money for their missiles and other weaponry??
Answer:
From us. Every dollar we spend on Arab oil helps arm and support these groups. We need energy independence NOW!

Weapons from the fleeing Iraqy army. Money from the banks in the cities they raped.

[rubicon]

Prior to World War I Europeans were fat dumb and happy and never for a second anticipated the immensity or the possibility of World War I nor its continuation in to World War II. Since that time Europe has never been the same.

Iraqi Freedom was right to rid the country of a mad man. The idea of some sort of democracy there was a seedling that would have continued to grow through out this region. Unfortunately politicians interfered. Many people are not aware of the fact that the colonist were calling for independence 100 years before the Declaration of Independence was signed. Building a democracy takes time patience and a strong will

War is evil and evil has existed since the beginning of mankind. Nature abhors a vacuum and the best we can do is, our level best to see it is filled to the betterment and not the detriment of mankind. In order to maintain that equilibrium peace through a strong defense is needed. Politicians scrambling for votes ignored this premise. Our enemies sensing this failure to act are filling this vacuum with the likes of ISIS,Iran, Syria, Russia, etc. Even border patrol agents are now expressing fear of mounted attacks by undesirables at our southern border.

Human nature is never going to change and any perception of weakness is going to get you killed. The good characteristic of human nature is that men have a tendency , a code that says don't attack the weaker, protect them. So when men see that the weak are being victimized they act.

It may sound corny and perhaps naive by some but if American does not return to asserting itself as the superpower that seeks justice and democracy for all we will eventually perish.

[Taltarzac725]

Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant)

I followed the news on the Middle East but would like to do more research before voicing an opinion.

[Rags123]

When Hussein was in power there was no Isis and no al Qaeda. There was a powerful dictator with an iron fist. Iran was a mortal enemy. We took him out for the flimsiest of reasons, and I would be hard pressed to consider the new government a democracy by any means. And to go back in and try it again is some form of insanity.

Please see "The Iraq Liberation" act signed by President Clinton in 1998.

Then check comments by his administration officials concerning Al Queda

Clinton first linked al Qaeda to Saddam - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2004/jun/24/20040624-112921-3401r/)

Iraq Liberation Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act)

And I might add that we live in a very very small world now, with what appears to be a leaky border. Read the various reports by border officials concerning NOT Central Americans trying to cross in Texas, BUT folks from middle eastern countries.

Point is President Obama must act...in my opinion in defense of our country.

[Shimpy]

Therefore, we use "surgical" airstrikes dropping a few dozen 500 lb bombs and essentially tap the enemy on the head with what amounts to a little wooden chopstick. Make no mistake though, we are capable of killing the bad guy if the political will exists. And by political will… I'm referring to "acceptable" collateral civilian damage as very little is truly "surgical" on this scale.
.

Collateral damage is a relatively recent term. During WWII when we firebombed and carpet bombed Germany and Japan, we didn't hinder ourselves with the fear of civilians dying. When we dropped both of the atomic bombs on Japan we ended the war and saved hundred of thousands of lives.
These Muslims are far worse than Hitler and do want to take over the world and as far as collateral damage is concerned if we want to win it than it just has to be. We have to look out for ourself and our allies.

[sunnyatlast]

Best statement here:


...Nature abhors a vacuum and the best we can do is, our level best to see it is filled to the betterment and not the detriment of mankind. In order to maintain that equilibrium peace through a strong defense is needed. Politicians scrambling for votes ignored this premise. Our enemies sensing this failure to act are filling this vacuum with the likes of ISIS,Iran, Syria, Russia, etc.....

[wendyquat]

Collateral damage is a relatively recent term. During WWII when we firebombed and carpet bombed Germany and Japan, we didn't hinder ourselves with the fear of civilians dying. When we dropped both of the atomic bombs on Japan we ended the war and saved hundred of thousands of lives.
These Muslims are far worse than Hitler and do want to take over the world and as far as collateral damage is concerned if we want to win it than it just has to be. We have to look out for ourself and our allies.

I agree and considering their brutality and determination I'd suggest we remove the threat BEFORE they have access to nuclear weapons!

[Tennisnut]

Collateral damage is a relatively recent term. During WWII when we firebombed and carpet bombed Germany and Japan, we didn't hinder ourselves with the fear of civilians dying. When we dropped both of the atomic bombs on Japan we ended the war and saved hundred of thousands of lives.
These Muslims are far worse than Hitler and do want to take over the world and as far as collateral damage is concerned if we want to win it than it just has to be. We have to look out for ourself and our allies.

I believe "These Muslims" have a long ways to go before they equal the death and suffering that Hitler inflicted on the Jews, Western and Eastern Europe and Russia during WWII. Six million Jews alone as well as millions of others died during that horrific war. They do not have the backing and resources of a whole nation as did Hitler and are looked upon as outlaws by the majority of Muslim countries.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I believe "These Muslims" have a long ways to go before they equal the death and suffering that Hitler inflicted on the Jews, Western and Eastern Europe and Russia during WWII. Six million Jews alone as well as millions of others died during that horrific war. They do not have the backing and resources of a whole nation as did Hitler and are looked upon as outlaws by the majority of Muslim countries.

As I understand, radical Islam is responsible for 120 million deaths in Africa alone.

[Tennisnut]

As I understand, radical Islam is responsible for 120 million deaths in Africa alone.

Your source must be Pamela Geller.

[kittygilchrist]

Ever feel like a grasshopper?

[nicoletta]

sigh... denying the truth doesn't mean it isn't true.
.i personally think the following
we are in the midst of the start of a new "world order" World War..religious differences has caused countless deaths throughout mankind's history..more than any other cause...

a few quotes to ponder

Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.

Faith: not wanting to know what is true.

The man of knowledge must be able not only to love his enemies but also to hate his friends.

All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
well that should be enough to ponder..for now!

[billethkid]

I personally have a problem spending any time on such "hogwash"!

[Suzi]

I have been concerned enough for the last week or so, that I decided that I would learn as much as possible. First I began going over the histories of WWII, Korea and the Vietnam conflicts - what started it all, what provoked us to enter the conflicts and then the outcomes. Then I superficially went over the wars about religion throughout mankind - like the Romans, as an example. I tried to catorgise them into "original " instigators, who else entered the conflicts and why and outcomes and unintended consequences. I'm still working this out in my head but the picture is getting clearer. The posts that many have provided have helped greatly in my understanding. Each poster has come forth with an opinion based on life experiences and those are very valuable to contribute. If you have been in the armed services, you contribute concerns to national defense. Many who are Christians have empathy for the defenseless copts.
Their concerns are based on passivisivim and "we should all get along and tolerate each others differences". Intelectuals are of the opinion that we can "think" our way out of this, a peaceful discourse if you will. People with wealth and power think war is an opportunity to gain more of the same. Politicians don't say too much for fear it could reflect on their re-election. The media is there for every sound byte and depending on the party they are affilated with, will slant the news their direction. Whats really good for us as a country is illusive. Not that anything I may finally believe will have any bearing on what our government may or may not do, I should have some opinions formed soon. I feel myself beginning to lean in a direction that is a bit uncomfortable for me. So, I'm entering new territory for thought. Everyones posts have been very thought provoking. Real interest from very learnned people who have shared their life experiences and opinions. I am beginning to think that there may be only one answer - and if thats the case, we better make sure its for the right reasons and not look back - not second guess our choice and just suffer the consequences. But the American people will need to be dealt with honestly. We all will need "frank" answers to our questions. No boloney about PC, no dancing about important issues or special agreements, contracts, and money to prop-up other entities. NO MORE muslim immigration. And our allies need to be on board or they can consider themselves off the Christmas list. We have become so wishy-washy, so PC that we aren't even allowed to call our enemies our enemies. Thats whats "hogwash". Call it what it is and then do something about it until its done. AND THEN KEEP OUR NOSE OUT OF OTHER COUNTRIES BUSINESS.

[Steve9930]

I have been concerned enough for the last week or so, that I decided that I would learn as much as possible. First I began going over the histories of WWII, Korea and the Vietnam conflicts - what started it all, what provoked us to enter the conflicts and then the outcomes. Then I superficially went over the wars about religion throughout mankind - like the Romans, as an example. I tried to catorgise them into "original " instigators, who else entered the conflicts and why and outcomes and unintended consequences. I'm still working this out in my head but the picture is getting clearer. The posts that many have provided have helped greatly in my understanding. Each poster has come forth with an opinion based on life experiences and those are very valuable to contribute. If you have been in the armed services, you contribute concerns to national defense. Many who are Christians have empathy for the defenseless copts.
Their concerns are based on passivisivim and "we should all get along and tolerate each others differences". Intelectuals are of the opinion that we can "think" our way out of this, a peaceful discourse if you will. People with wealth and power think war is an opportunity to gain more of the same. Politicians don't say too much for fear it could reflect on their re-election. The media is there for every sound byte and depending on the party they are affilated with, will slant the news their direction. Whats really good for us as a country is illusive. Not that anything I may finally believe will have any bearing on what our government may or may not do, I should have some opinions formed soon. I feel myself beginning to lean in a direction that is a bit uncomfortable for me. So, I'm entering new territory for thought. Everyones posts have been very thought provoking. Real interest from very learnned people who have shared their life experiences and opinions. I am beginning to think that there may be only one answer - and if thats the case, we better make sure its for the right reasons and not look back - not second guess our choice and just suffer the consequences. But the American people will need to be dealt with honestly. We all will need "frank" answers to our questions. No boloney about PC, no dancing about important issues or special agreements, contracts, and money to prop-up other entities. NO MORE muslim immigration. And our allies need to be on board or they can consider themselves off the Christmas list. We have become so wishy-washy, so PC that we aren't even allowed to call our enemies our enemies. Thats whats "hogwash". Call it what it is and then do something about it until its done. AND THEN KEEP OUR NOSE OUT OF OTHER COUNTRIES BUSINESS.

Very thoughtful research. There is no easy answer to the current problem. I believe to ignore the problem will only put the US in jeopardy. The other question if the US does not intervene to support those that need it who will? The problem is sometimes we try to force our perspective on those we help and not let them make their own decisions. However there is a point in time where actions of others demand that we stick our nose in the fight.

[Rags123]

I have been concerned enough for the last week or so, that I decided that I would learn as much as possible. First I began going over the histories of WWII, Korea and the Vietnam conflicts - what started it all, what provoked us to enter the conflicts and then the outcomes. Then I superficially went over the wars about religion throughout mankind - like the Romans, as an example. I tried to catorgise them into "original " instigators, who else entered the conflicts and why and outcomes and unintended consequences. I'm still working this out in my head but the picture is getting clearer. The posts that many have provided have helped greatly in my understanding. Each poster has come forth with an opinion based on life experiences and those are very valuable to contribute. If you have been in the armed services, you contribute concerns to national defense. Many who are Christians have empathy for the defenseless copts.
Their concerns are based on passivisivim and "we should all get along and tolerate each others differences". Intelectuals are of the opinion that we can "think" our way out of this, a peaceful discourse if you will. People with wealth and power think war is an opportunity to gain more of the same. Politicians don't say too much for fear it could reflect on their re-election. The media is there for every sound byte and depending on the party they are affilated with, will slant the news their direction. Whats really good for us as a country is illusive. Not that anything I may finally believe will have any bearing on what our government may or may not do, I should have some opinions formed soon. I feel myself beginning to lean in a direction that is a bit uncomfortable for me. So, I'm entering new territory for thought. Everyones posts have been very thought provoking. Real interest from very learnned people who have shared their life experiences and opinions. I am beginning to think that there may be only one answer - and if thats the case, we better make sure its for the right reasons and not look back - not second guess our choice and just suffer the consequences. But the American people will need to be dealt with honestly. We all will need "frank" answers to our questions. No boloney about PC, no dancing about important issues or special agreements, contracts, and money to prop-up other entities. NO MORE muslim immigration. And our allies need to be on board or they can consider themselves off the Christmas list. We have become so wishy-washy, so PC that we aren't even allowed to call our enemies our enemies. Thats whats "hogwash". Call it what it is and then do something about it until its done. AND THEN KEEP OUR NOSE OUT OF OTHER COUNTRIES BUSINESS.


Good post. You covered most of the bases in your investigation. I might offer a few things that, in my opinion, color or change the hue at least of some of the insights based on history.

We now live in a very small world. Of course the actual size isnt changed but the speed of travel and communications has made us all very close to the entire world. Thus, a threat during the time of Korea, WW2, Vietnam or back when the old religious wars were being fought is multiplied by hundreds and in my opinion cannot be compared.

Next, we have the threat of weapons beyond comparison. IF in fact, ISIS, for example is as vicious as they appear and if they , in fact, are determined, as they say, to wave their flag over our WH, do we not think they will work toward obtaining nuclear weapons of other weapons that can destroy so very many people suddenly ? Of course they are and if you look around the region at who lurks there.....people and actual governments who are sworn to destroy us and whomever our allies might be.

Now add our very porous border, especially in the southwest. There are reports of folks being stopped trying to enter this country posing as Central Americans but actually being from the middle east. Most have been stopped, but the word MOST bothers me.

NOBODY, not just the one who say it because it is politically correct, but NOBODY wants to kill other human beings...NOBODY wants others to suffer.
EXCEPT, it seems those who daily make threats to do such things and are actually succeeding. I have watched in great horror at what has happened in Syria....children literally gunned down in the streets and nobody has done anything to my knowledge. THAT was and is a humanatarian crisis before this one.

I applaud the President for getting involved and I hope it has an "end game" not founded on any political gain or public opinion poll. Those public opinion polls will change faster than a heartbeat with JUST ONE action in our borders.


Just adding this from today's USA TODAY....

"The Islamic State is metastasizing much the same way al Qaeda did, but on an accelerated timeline. Bin Laden's network grew in the 1990s by recruiting foreign fighters who had battled the Red Army in Afghanistan in the 1980s. The Islamic State has developed its own deep bench of transnational terror talent, recruiting from countries throughout the Middle East, Europe, and even the United States. Franchises are reportedly opening in Libya and Tunisia. The North African terror conglomerate Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) has aligned with IS. Nigerian Boko Haram leader Abubakar Shekau has sworn allegiance to al-Baghdadi, as has Abu Sayaaf leader Isnilon Hapilon in the Philippines. The Islamic State currently controls more fighters, more territory, and has a vaster alliance system than al-Qaeda ever did."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/08/05/al-qaeda-islamic-state-is-isis-obama-column/13622585/

Not quite the JV team we thought !!

[Steve9930]

I'm very pleased with the post that I have read lately. It just may be that these current events will not divide us further but bring this country together again. Great challenges in our history is when the real strength of America emerges. Our enemies may be doing the exact opposite of what they hope to accomplish. As a Japanese Admiral said after Pearl Harbor: "I'm afraid all we have done is waken a sleeping giant"

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Your source must be Pamela Geller.

There are many sources. Here's one.


+290 million victims of Islamic terror.

120 million Africans, according to Woman’s Presbyterian Board of Missions, David Livingstone, page 62, in 1888.

Don't forget, Hitler didn't have the weapons of mass destruction that are available today.

[Tennisnut]

There are many sources. Here's one.


+290 million victims of Islamic terror.

120 million Africans, according to Woman’s Presbyterian Board of Missions, David Livingstone, page 62, in 1888.

Don't forget, Hitler didn't have the weapons of mass destruction that are available today.

The 120 million Africans was attributed to the slave trade in Africa which I believe the US clearly participated in. Do we have any responsibility for that?
I would say that is a stretch to say Islam is responsible?

However, Hitler was directly responsible for the death of 6 million Jews w/o WMDs and was getting close to nuclear fission bomb.

[Rags123]

The 120 million Africans was attributed to the slave trade in Africa which I believe the US clearly participated in. Do we have any responsibility for that?
I would say that is a stretch to say Islam is responsible?

However, Hitler was directly responsible for the death of 6 million Jews w/o WMDs and was getting close to nuclear fission bomb.


I suppose your defense of the stats on how many the Islamic terrorists have killed is somehow admirable, but wonder why you comment on the stats instead of the current situation ????

[graciegirl]

The 120 million Africans was attributed to the slave trade in Africa which I believe the US clearly participated in. Do we have any responsibility for that?
I would say that is a stretch to say Islam is responsible?

However, Hitler was directly responsible for the death of 6 million Jews w/o WMDs and was getting close to nuclear fission bomb.

Hitler was a LONG time ago. The problem with radical Islam is now. And even if you are not a Christian, you might just be mistaken for one if you live in the U.S.


In order to survive a conflict, you must identify the enemy and all the political correct things that people pass off as reasonable, minimizing this issue, aren't. Reasonable. I fear for the future.

Muslims do not hold their women as equals. Too many Muslim women have had their sexual organs altered so they cannot feel pleasure. How barbaric and primitive and ugly is that. I know this because my next door neighbor in Cincinnati, an M.D., went to Egypt with a team of physicians to try to do something to stop this practice. She is Buddhist. Just google cliterectomy.

The radical Muslims view all who are not converted to Islam as infidels.

No problem here YET, if you don't count the World Trade Center and The bombings at the Boston Marathon.

[Gerald]

No I do not care. They can kill each other. Fighting over there has being going on for thousands of years.

[Rags123]

No I do not care. They can kill each other. Fighting over there has being going on for thousands of years.


Is it then your opinion that we should just trust them to stay there ?

[TexaninVA]

I agree and considering their brutality and determination I'd suggest we remove the threat BEFORE they have access to nuclear weapons!

Absolutely amen to that.

[TexaninVA]

It is a mess of gigantic proportions and, in my opinion, was caused by our greed for their OIL. I am very glad I don't have to make the decisions about how to handle it. Al Qaeda were bad enough, now these crazies appear ...............

When you say “greed” for their oil … I have a question for you and then a comment.

Given that oil fuels our modern economy and, without oil, we would all be much worse off … poverty, no jobs, limited electricity, no A/C, no golf carts etc, … do you really think wanting to obtain oil is somehow bad or immoral?

The irony is, if we really went to war for “their oil” we are without a doubt the most inept imperial power ever. Most of the contracts and benefits went to the Chinese and other countries, who were no doubt laughing at us thinking “how can the Americans always be so dumb?”. One can argue that, given $2 Trillion and many thousands of combat deaths / casualties to liberate the Iraqis, the US should have demanded some form of oil or other payment from Iraq. In addition, we should have kept some level of forces there instead of bailing out … that would have prevented the medieval nightmare of ISIS that is now emerging. You are spot on about these guys being “crazies” by the way … they have a blood lust for violence that is off the charts.

[TexaninVA]

I find this recent muslim ISIS group very scary. I choose not to get into the debate about how long we have been aware of this group, but now that we all are aware of their march through Syria and Iraq, their brutality and growth, what are we going to do? If their goal is to conquer the world, spread Islam only and kill anyone who is another faith, how long before it hits our shores?

What is your take on this whole thing? Doesn't it seem like their fundemantalist movement is gaining speed in the Mid-east?

Suzi ... Thanks for starting this thread.

You, and all of us, should find this latest Radical Islamic group known as ISIS (aka ISIL and Islamic State) “scary” because they truly are. In reading the responses to this thread, it seems that most recognize we have a huge threat on our hands with ISIS.

Here are some painful truths:

• Radical Islam is the enemy of the United States as well as the rest of the West. We all need to stop debating this point and accept the obvious.

• It’s pointless to “blame America” for their hatred and say it’s our fault etc (not saying you are doing this btw). Islam has always been a violent and martial religion ever since the 7th Century.

• ISIS is a medieval nightmare come true. Among other things ISIS has
o Literally crucified some of the people they captured
o In other cases beheaded their captives, and still others, placed the heads on pikes
o In other instances ISIS lined their prisoners up in trenches and shot them point blank
o Kidnapped hundreds of Yazidi women of various ages and who are now literally sex slaves for Jihadi “warriors” … ie at least until they are killed.
o Declared war on Christianity and Christians wherever they can find them to destroy or kill
o Captured 100s of millions of dollars in Iraqi banks .. .which will be used for terror attacks
o Captured low grade uranium quite suitable for “dirty bomb” attacks (ie not a mushroom cloud but they can now spread radioactive material that will contaminate areas for a long time .. .think Washington, New York etc)
o Rapidly exerted control over about 1/3 of Iraqi territory
o Several hundred American and European fighters with passports … making them candidate to sneak into the US

Some other points to ponder

• Al-Baghdadi is the leader of ISIS. He is charismatic, holds a Masters and Doctorate in Islamic Studies. He is beyond ruthless. He has proclaimed himself “Caliph” … basically the head of state of all Muslims worldwide (eventually …ie that is his goal).

• He was in US custody for a while but was released. His parting words were “see you in New York”. Rather chilling.

• Put into different terms, this guy is truly the most likely successor to our generation’s version of a Hitler or Stalin. We cannot ignore it.

• It truly doesn’t matter if we dp not want to get involved, or consider the US the source of the problem, or if we insist on keeping our nose out of it etc. You see, ISIS absolutely WILL attack the US, regardless of what any of us want or think or hope, and I’m talking the homeland. IMHO it will take them 1-2 years to get the infrastructure and training up to speed.

• These guys are ORGANIZED and actually produce an annual report, just like a regular company. I can only imagine the staff meetings they have. It’s also clear that only the boldest and most innovative plans, and warriors, will “advance” and get promoted. They use metrics and what seems to be impressive organizational skill. Unreal but see this link.

http://understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/ISWBackgrounder_ISIS_Annual_Reports_0.pdf


• I will bet money ISIS will infiltrate Jihadis across what used to be our Southern Border. It’s a no brainer for them. While the US public is wrapped in a knot over “the kids”, they will see this as a huge opportunity to get not just people in here but, more importantly, the actual weapons and such.

• My guess is they will use IEDs (of course) but also dirty bombs likely in a coordinated way.

• The first two targets are same as before … New York City and Washington DC. However, I think they will also branch out and go after utility plants (ie reduced electricity means reduced economy) and other targets to attack us economically such as shopping malls, interstates etc.

• ISIS is very social media savvy. It’s become “cool” to be an ISIS guy amongst the disaffected Muslim youth of Europe, and in some cases the US.

• They are recruiting impressionable young European women to come to the Middle East to serve as wives for Jihadi. They are apparently getting some takers go figure.

What do we do?

Suffice to say that right now, even with the limited airstrikes, our strategy is that of an ostrich …our head is still largely in the sand. We are already in a war with these ISIS guys, we just haven’t been able to face up to that yet. I have some recommendations for actions the US needs to take, but this post is already too long so I’ll defer that for now.

[TexaninVA]

I do think it's important to ALWAYS evaluate past strategies and outcomes so that we learn from our mistakes (both diplomatically and militarily) and are more effective and efficient in future conflicts. Many people predicted a civil war along tribal lines if the brutal dictator Hussein was removed from power. We've seen the same thing in Libya and Egypt most recently. At some point you have to choose the lesser of two evils. Which route results in the least loss of life commensurate with maintaining our national interest? Did Hussein kill more or did 8+ years of war and now a civil war among tribes?

My PERSONAL (Libertarian) opinion is to basically allow civil wars and regional conflicts to be decided locally, interfering ONLY when America's strategic national interest is threatened (Syria most recently.) In Iraq I would arm the Kurds in the north with modern weaponry, let Iran arm and defend the Shia's in the south, and ISIS will (unfortunately) get its weapons/funding by sympathetic Sunni friends. There are a lot of nations with strategic national interests and security concerns jockeying in this part of the world. DO NOT put US boots on the ground and spill any more blood policing this bad neighborhood.

For those that truly have a fear for the future all I can say is that the US military is incredibly capable and has a devastating arsenal of weaponry. What it lacks, or rather is constrained by, is the political will to unleash any more than tiny bits of it. The ENTIRE country of Iraq could quite easily be leveled (similar to the terrible scenes in Gaza) in just a few days using airpower alone if it weren't for the massive loss of life that would ensue (MILLIONS.) The world community simply won't stand for that level of brutality and destruction… and rightly so. Therefore, we use "surgical" airstrikes dropping a few dozen 500 lb bombs and essentially tap the enemy on the head with what amounts to a little wooden chopstick. Make no mistake though, we are capable of killing the bad guy if the political will exists. And by political will… I'm referring to "acceptable" collateral civilian damage as very little is truly "surgical" on this scale.

Just my thoughts though… your mileage may vary.

This is a good post and I agree with it. We can, and at some point will have to level the ISIS homeland much as we did Germany and Japan but it will take several horrific attacks on our homeland before the need for this becomes obvious. Boots on the ground will also be inevitable at that point for us to truly destroy ISIS, which is what must happen.

However, the main point you omit is ISIS will attack us asymmetrically here at home … using innovative weapons and tactics, and most likely by coming across our porous southern border, or what used to be a border. We will truly rue and regret the day we did not secure it. I’m sure we will secure it after many thousands of Americans die here at home. It’s unfortunate we can’t anticipate, and then act, on the obvious now, but I think that’s partly the nature of a democratic republic. We are slow to rile but, once we have a Pearl Harbor, we go all out etc.

[Rags123]

"Suffice to say that right now, even with the limited airstrikes, our strategy is that of an ostrich …our head is still largely in the sand. We are already in a war with these ISIS guys, we just haven’t been able to face up to that yet"

The above from TexaninVA

I agree and think this is the most scary for me.

[Steve9930]

Suzi ... Thanks for starting this thread.

You, and all of us, should find this latest Radical Islamic group known as ISIS (aka ISIL and Islamic State) “scary” because they truly are. In reading the responses to this thread, it seems that most recognize we have a huge threat on our hands with ISIS.

Here are some painful truths:

• Radical Islam is the enemy of the United States as well as the rest of the West. We all need to stop debating this point and accept the obvious.

• It’s pointless to “blame America” for their hatred and say it’s our fault etc (not saying you are doing this btw). Islam has always been a violent and martial religion ever since the 7th Century.

• ISIS is a medieval nightmare come true. Among other things ISIS has
o Literally crucified some of the people they captured
o In other cases beheaded their captives, and still others, placed the heads on pikes
o In other instances ISIS lined their prisoners up in trenches and shot them point blank
o Kidnapped hundreds of Yazidi women of various ages and who are now literally sex slaves for Jihadi “warriors” … ie at least until they are killed.
o Declared war on Christianity and Christians wherever they can find them to destroy or kill
o Captured 100s of millions of dollars in Iraqi banks .. .which will be used for terror attacks
o Captured low grade uranium quite suitable for “dirty bomb” attacks (ie not a mushroom cloud but they can now spread radioactive material that will contaminate areas for a long time .. .think Washington, New York etc)
o Rapidly exerted control over about 1/3 of Iraqi territory
o Several hundred American and European fighters with passports … making them candidate to sneak into the US

Some other points to ponder

• Al-Baghdadi is the leader of ISIS. He is charismatic, holds a Masters and Doctorate in Islamic Studies. He is beyond ruthless. He has proclaimed himself “Caliph” … basically the head of state of all Muslims worldwide (eventually …ie that is his goal).

• He was in US custody for a while but was released. His parting words were “see you in New York”. Rather chilling.

• Put into different terms, this guy is truly the most likely successor to our generation’s version of a Hitler or Stalin. We cannot ignore it.

• It truly doesn’t matter if we dp not want to get involved, or consider the US the source of the problem, or if we insist on keeping our nose out of it etc. You see, ISIS absolutely WILL attack the US, regardless of what any of us want or think or hope, and I’m talking the homeland. IMHO it will take them 1-2 years to get the infrastructure and training up to speed.

• These guys are ORGANIZED and actually produce an annual report, just like a regular company. I can only imagine the staff meetings they have. It’s also clear that only the boldest and most innovative plans, and warriors, will “advance” and get promoted. They use metrics and what seems to be impressive organizational skill. Unreal but see this link.

http://understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/ISWBackgrounder_ISIS_Annual_Reports_0.pdf


• I will bet money ISIS will infiltrate Jihadis across what used to be our Southern Border. It’s a no brainer for them. While the US public is wrapped in a knot over “the kids”, they will see this as a huge opportunity to get not just people in here but, more importantly, the actual weapons and such.

• My guess is they will use IEDs (of course) but also dirty bombs likely in a coordinated way.

• The first two targets are same as before … New York City and Washington DC. However, I think they will also branch out and go after utility plants (ie reduced electricity means reduced economy) and other targets to attack us economically such as shopping malls, interstates etc.

• ISIS is very social media savvy. It’s become “cool” to be an ISIS guy amongst the disaffected Muslim youth of Europe, and in some cases the US.

• They are recruiting impressionable young European women to come to the Middle East to serve as wives for Jihadi. They are apparently getting some takers go figure.

What do we do?

Suffice to say that right now, even with the limited airstrikes, our strategy is that of an ostrich …our head is still largely in the sand. We are already in a war with these ISIS guys, we just haven’t been able to face up to that yet. I have some recommendations for actions the US needs to take, but this post is already too long so I’ll defer that for now.

This is the real truth. And as Paul Harvey used to say and now the rest of the story. That rest of the story will either be written by ISIS or the US. I hope we wake up soon as the ISIS version is not palatable.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

When you say “greed” for their oil … I have a question for you and then a comment.

Given that oil fuels our modern economy and, without oil, we would all be much worse off … poverty, no jobs, limited electricity, no A/C, no golf carts etc, … do you really think wanting to obtain oil is somehow bad or immoral?

The irony is, if we really went to war for “their oil” we are without a doubt the most inept imperial power ever. Most of the contracts and benefits went to the Chinese and other countries, who were no doubt laughing at us thinking “how can the Americans always be so dumb?”. One can argue that, given $2 Trillion and many thousands of combat deaths / casualties to liberate the Iraqis, the US should have demanded some form of oil or other payment from Iraq. In addition, we should have kept some level of forces there instead of bailing out … that would have prevented the medieval nightmare of ISIS that is now emerging. You are spot on about these guys being “crazies” by the way … they have a blood lust for violence that is off the charts.

Add to that the fact that we only get about 13% of our oil from the Persian Gulf and nearly 3/4 of that from Saudi Arabia and the argument that we are involved because of oil quickly goes down the drain.

We went into Iraq and got rid of Saddam Hussein. How did that help us in terms of oil?

[B767drvr]

This is a good post and I agree with it. We can, and at some point will have to level the ISIS homeland much as we did Germany and Japan but it will take several horrific attacks on our homeland before the need for this becomes obvious. Boots on the ground will also be inevitable at that point for us to truly destroy ISIS, which is what must happen.

However, the main point you omit is ISIS will attack us asymmetrically here at home … using innovative weapons and tactics, and most likely by coming across our porous southern border, or what used to be a border. We will truly rue and regret the day we did not secure it. I’m sure we will secure it after many thousands of Americans die here at home. It’s unfortunate we can’t anticipate, and then act, on the obvious now, but I think that’s partly the nature of a democratic republic. We are slow to rile but, once we have a Pearl Harbor, we go all out etc.


I wholeheartedly agree with everything that you've said.

It won't be news to you, but perhaps it'll be reassuring to some to remind/make them aware that there's an awful lot going on within our military and intelligence agencies 24/7/365. As an example, EVERY electronic signal worldwide is captured and "scrubbed" by US "agencies" real time for its intelligence value. Translated, that means EVERY phone call (landline, cell, satellite, microwave, ultra-low/high frequency, low/high/very high/ultra high freq… EVERY email/text/internet posting, snapchat… EVERYTHING that transmits across the electromagnetic spectrum produced by humans is being captured and evaluated continuously real-time by the US all in an effort to keep this country and its citizens safe. Yes, your cell call from the beach in Bali with a fruity drink in hand is being recorded! :22yikes:

Many "actions" are "quietly" taken around the world to neutralize threats as they emerge all in an effort to prevent another 9-1-1. Unfortunately, it may take another horrific terrorist attack on our homeland to garner the "political cover" to take decisive military action and neutralize this latest ISIS threat. My point in mentioning these things is simply to reassure some folks that many emerging threats have been quietly suppressed without any "fanfare". (When was the last time you've read of Somali pirates hijacking ships?)

[Shimpy]

Don't forget, Hitler didn't have the weapons of mass destruction that are available today.

I said the Muslims are worse than the Nazis not only because of that but because they don't wear uniforms or can be identified unless caught in the act. A terrorist can be a civilian one moment, duck into a building, come out with an AK47 and mow down several soldiers then duck into the building, ditch the AK47 and then come out and walk amoung the people. They'll walk behind women and children and come out shooting, not caring if the women or children are killed. They know we are very concerned about civilian casualities and play that to their advantage, hiding in hospitals and schools.
In the last 5 months I've read 5 books by combat veterans (Delta Force and Navy Seals) who had to fight those people. Each one mentioned our ROE (rules of engagement) has hindered us to the point that many are afraid of the lawyers they would have to face.
This I believe is the worse enemy we have ever faced and we better start treating it seriously. They have no fear of death and in fact welcome it.

[TexaninVA]

I wholeheartedly agree with everything that you've said.

It won't be news to you, but perhaps it'll be reassuring to some to remind/make them aware that there's an awful lot going on within our military and intelligence agencies 24/7/365. As an example, EVERY electronic signal worldwide is captured and "scrubbed" by US "agencies" real time for its intelligence value. Translated, that means EVERY phone call (landline, cell, satellite, microwave, ultra-low/high frequency, low/high/very high/ultra high freq… EVERY email/text/internet posting, snapchat… EVERYTHING that transmits across the electromagnetic spectrum produced by humans is being captured and evaluated continuously real-time by the US all in an effort to keep this country and its citizens safe. Yes, your cell call from the beach in Bali with a fruity drink in hand is being recorded! :22yikes:

Many "actions" are "quietly" taken around the world to neutralize threats as they emerge all in an effort to prevent another 9-1-1. Unfortunately, it may take another horrific terrorist attack on our homeland to garner the "political cover" to take decisive military action and neutralize this latest ISIS threat. My point in mentioning these things is simply to reassure some folks that many emerging threats have been quietly suppressed without any "fanfare". (When was the last time you've read of Somali pirates hijacking ships?)

B767 … I’m smiling because you are exactly right. The intelligence community does all kinds of stuff ‘behind the scenes’ 24x7 to keep us safe. The irony of intel is that one can never talk about the successes because it would expose the operations and how one did it. OTOH, failures will usually be leaked to the press and/or politicized by one party or the other. Suffice to say there are a lot of successes, but no defense is foolproof and at some point some of these guys will get through. The saying about offense is the best defense is very much applicable here.

I also think you’re exactly right about what it will take for the political consensus to develop.

[TexaninVA]

I said the Muslims are worse than the Nazis not only because of that but because they don't wear uniforms or can be identified unless caught in the act. A terrorist can be a civilian one moment, duck into a building, come out with an AK47 and mow down several soldiers then duck into the building, ditch the AK47 and then come out and walk amoung the people. They'll walk behind women and children and come out shooting, not caring if the women or children are killed. They know we are very concerned about civilian casualities and play that to their advantage, hiding in hospitals and schools.
In the last 5 months I've read 5 books by combat veterans (Delta Force and Navy Seals) who had to fight those people. Each one mentioned our ROE (rules of engagement) has hindered us to the point that many are afraid of the lawyers they would have to face.
This I believe is the worse enemy we have ever faced and we better start treating it seriously. They have no fear of death and in fact welcome it.

Shrimpy … you raise two interesting points.

1. I don’t think you intended to mention this aspect, but most people don’t realize that the Nazis and certain radical Islamic groups actually have very close ties that go back to the 1930s. The Muslim Brotherhood’s founder Hassan al-Banna was a great admirer of Adolph Hitler. After he rose to power in the 1930s, Hitler provided the MB financial and other support. The Waffen SS had Muslim volunteers who fought for the Nazis. Saddam’s Baath Party had ties going back to the Nazi’s as well. The unifying factor there, in addition to anti-Semitism, was hatred of the British.

2. Regarding the ROE, I think that will be a problem unless they are significantly loosened to let our guys win. To be blunt, we need to kill the ISIS enemy and kill them quickly, efficiently and ideally en masse. By the way, if anyone disagrees with that assertion, I’d like to hear them make their case.

3. The ROE has its origins in more of a ‘gentlemanly’ type warfare (not literally of course) where the Geneva Convention, Laws of War and so forth prevail. Ask yourself however that will work with ISIS jihadists? Probably not very well. I remember after 9/11, when the US was targeting the bad guys in Afghanistan, I was dismayed to learn than General Franks (C/CENTCOM) actually had a lawyer in the decisions loop about what targets could be hit and not. That makes your point actually about how military and intel people have to cover their rear ends instead of fighting flat out to win. Some rules and guidelines are needed of course, but to my way of thinking, when you need to have lawyers involved like this, it’s idiotic. Again, in my view, after enough domestic (i.e. civilian) American casualties accrue, we will change the rules but probably not before that happens.

4. Your should also read “Company Man” by John Rizzo. It's a very interesting book. Rizzo is actually a very patriotic guy so no criticism of him is intended but the fact that everything of significance had to be run thru the CIA lawyers is dismaying.

[kittygilchrist]

Back to the OP--what to do? What to do?
Almost nobody knows Bible prophecies predicting exactly what is happening on the entire globe.
It caught me somewhat by surprise, and I've been watching.
If anyone is interested in discussing events from that viewpoint, send me a PM.

[Tennisnut]

Hitler was a LONG time ago. The problem with radical Islam is now. And even if you are not a Christian, you might just be mistaken for one if you live in the U.S.


In order to survive a conflict, you must identify the enemy and all the political correct things that people pass off as reasonable, minimizing this issue, aren't. Reasonable. I fear for the future.

Muslims do not hold their women as equals. Too many Muslim women have had their sexual organs altered so they cannot feel pleasure. How barbaric and primitive and ugly is that. I know this because my next door neighbor in Cincinnati, an M.D., went to Egypt with a team of physicians to try to do something to stop this practice. She is Buddhist. Just google cliterectomy.

The radical Muslims view all who are not converted to Islam as infidels.

No problem here YET, if you don't count the World Trade Center and The bombings at the Boston Marathon.


I am sorry but I did not bring up the killing attributed to Islam from the slave trade which was a LONG time ago. However , history is distorted from several hundred years ago and last week.

[Tennisnut]

Add to that the fact that we only get about 13% of our oil from the Persian Gulf and nearly 3/4 of that from Saudi Arabia and the argument that we are involved because of oil quickly goes down the drain.

We went into Iraq and got rid of Saddam Hussein. How did that help us in terms of oil?

We invaded Iraq because Iraq was a threat to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

We invaded Iraq because Iraq was a threat to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

That's the first time I've ever heard that one.

[DDoug]

I'm more concerned whats going to happen here.

[kittygilchrist]

Avoiding Armageddon . About Series | PBS (http://www.pbs.org/avoidingarmageddon/meetThePeople/meet_03.html)

Ted Turner thinks we can avoid Armageddon. What a surprise that PBS recognizes the signs of the times with this series.

Eschatologists, that is Bible scholars studying armageddon and the surrounding events, recognize the signs of the times.

The sharpest understanding of world events I can find comes from messianic Jews. These are Jews who recognize Jesus as Messiah. They know the history of Israel and significance of Israel, they know the Bible, and they love both. They would laugh at the idea that we can avoid Armageddon.

Most of us know what we get on the first three pages of Google for Armageddon, that is that Bruce Willis saved us.

[billethkid]

two impediments prohibiting a real solution to the problems:

>big oil companies and countries

>weak kneed, flip flop, linguine spined politicians

[Villages PL]

I find this recent muslim ISIS group very scary. I choose not to get into the debate about how long we have been aware of this group, but now that we all are aware of their march through Syria and Iraq, their brutality and growth, what are we going to do? If their goal is to conquer the world, spread Islam only and kill anyone who is another faith, how long before it hits our shores?

What is your take on this whole thing? Doesn't it seem like their fundemantalist movement is gaining speed in the Mid-east?

Yes, it's bad, very bad. We need to kill them all.

[Chi-Town]

Kill them all, and the world is coming to an end. I love this thread.

[Madelaine Amee]

I feel somewhat better about the conditions in Iraq tonight. I just saw on TV that the Coptic (have I got that right) people have been led off the mountain to safety by the Kurds and some of our really, really good guys! Have not heard much about ISIS, can only hope we are bombing them into the ground! Yes, I'm violent, but if you want to run around beheading and crucifying people I want to see you obliterated - you, your children, your wives, any relatives you have. Unfortunately I also read that several hundred children have already died from dehydration. This is a terrible world and all in the name of religion.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I feel somewhat better about the conditions in Iraq tonight. I just saw on TV that the Coptic (have I got that right) people have been led off the mountain to safety by the Kurds and some of our really, really good guys! Have not heard much about ISIS, can only hope we are bombing them into the ground! Yes, I'm violent, but if you want to run around beheading and crucifying people I want to see you obliterated - you, your children, your wives, any relatives you have. Unfortunately I also read that several hundred children have already died from dehydration. This is a terrible world and all in the name of religion.

The problem with a terrorist group is that there is nothing to bomb. Yes, we can make some surgical air strikes when they are in a specific location like this, and kill a few of them. But for the most part, these people are spread all over the world. Some may even be walking among us. Unlike any other conflict in history, there is no central government or land to bomb into the ground. Don't forget, Iraq is a country that we helped set up. They are now allies and we are over there at the request of the Iraqi government. We can't very well help them out by bombing Iraq into the ground.

[Shimpy]

Your should also read “Company Man” by John Rizzo. It's a very interesting book. Rizzo is actually a very patriotic guy so no criticism of him is intended but the fact that everything of significance had to be run thru the CIA lawyers is dismaying.

Thanks, that book is on my list to read as recommended by one of the books I just read,.......Delta Force.....Inside Delta Force......Lone Survivor.......American Sniper....Seal Team 6......and Service, A Navy Seal at War.

[sunnyatlast]

It is a mess of gigantic proportions and, in my opinion, was caused by our greed for their OIL. I am very glad I don't have to make the decisions about how to handle it. Al Qaeda were bad enough, now these crazies appear ...............

"OUR" "greed for their OIL"???

How Guns and Oil Net ISIS $1 Million Per Day

"Every startup needs financing and a market to succeed. So, too, for the Islamist extremist group ISIS—or simply the Islamic State, as it calls itself—whose fighters stormed across the Syrian border into Iraq in June and seized the country’s second-biggest city, Mosul, before moving on to the outskirts of Baghdad.

Now ISIS, an outgrowth of the U.S. military’s deadly Sunni foes in Iraq a decade ago, is the tycoon of the jihadi world. Having taken over oilfields in war-torn northeastern Syria last year and reportedly earned tens of millions selling antiquities, it landed a giant infusion of cash by seizing about $425 million from a Mosul bank.

But ISIS’s real upside lies in exploiting one precious commodity: oil. The group nabbed three more fields in Iraq, tapping into pipelines and looting oil storage facilities in its new territory. Then it filled trucks and sold crude for the cut-rate price of $26 a barrel to Iraqi traders, who resold it to Kurdish smugglers at a 100% markup.

ISIS quickly developed its smugglers’ network—to which it now sells about 100 truckfuls of oil daily for around $9,000 each—netting nearly $1 million a day, according to truckers and officials who detailed the bonanza to the industry newsletter Iraq Oil Report. Not bad for a group with just about 10,000 fighters. Said one Kurdish intelligence officer: “This is a very profitable business.”

How guns and oil net ISIS $1 million a day - Fortune (http://fortune.com/2014/07/24/isis-guns-oil/?xid=ob_rss)

It seems to me that OUR presence and protection of Iraq's oil fields would have prevented ISIS from becoming so well funded!

[sunnyatlast]

And who is crucifying and butchering children "in the name of Religion"???

[Anglican Communion News Service] The five-year-old son of a founding member of Baghdad’s Anglican church was cut in half during an attack by the Islamic State1 on the Christian town of Qaraqosh.

Anglican Vicar of Baghdad: ‘Child I baptized cut in half by ISIS’ (http://episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2014/08/08/anglican-vicar-of-baghdad-child-i-baptized-cut-in-half-by-isis/)

[Chi-Town]

The Iraqui president replaced the Iraqi prime minister, but he refuses to go. He has his militants in the street. So now it's a standoff situation. And where is Saddam Hussein when you need him. I dunno, some militants burned his tomb a few days ago.

[TexaninVA]

The leader of ISIS, aka ISIL, is "Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi" or "al-Baghdadi" for short. One of his favorite books is a treatise known as "The Management of Savagery," which given what has been going on recently is an aptly titled book.

This book has also been described as "Che Guevara warmed over jihadis" while another person has described the book as “the seven highly effective habits of jihadi leaders.”

Some takeaway points are this new Radical Islamic leader is serious, well-organized, deadly, and diligently works at improving his organization's skill levels in the art of jihad. This is not some mystic hiding out in a cave.