Are America's police becoming too militarized?

[Bogie Shooter]

Are tanks and shoulder fired missiles too much?

[redwitch]

Next silly question although I'm sure some will say not enough.

[sunnyatlast]

It depends. If my first grade child were hiding in the bathroom of his classroom at Sandy Hook Elementary, I'd be glad to see SWAT teams on the roof.

[NottaVillager]

No. They are not.

[justjim]

In case of a terrorist attack, yes such equipment could be needed.

However, what we see going on in Missouri is not a terrorist attack.

[TheVillageChicken]

When the participants call looting and rioting "a protest," it might just be time to upgrade the response.

[NYGUY]

Are tanks and shoulder fired missiles too much?

Interesting question, since a Facebook friend just poised the same question. As a staunch Libertarian, his response was "way too much" I am not sure however!!:undecided:

[sunnyatlast]

In case of a terrorist attack, yes such equipment could be needed.

However, what we see going on in Missouri is not a terrorist attack.

I think throwing molotov cocktails while rioting, burning and looting innocent civilians' stores or property is a "terrorist" attack, just as setting up pressure cookers full of nails and other shrapnel to explode and blow innocent bystanders' legs off and kill them was "terrorism" at an historic, celebrated athletic event.

[janmcn]

Governor Jay Nixon of Missouri just announced that the MO Highway Patrol will be taking the lead in security from here on out. Hopefully this will tamp down the violence occurring nightly in Ferguson.

[onslowe]

My immediate answer in this terrorist plagued world is yes, these historically unusual arms are definitely needed. As long as the police are on our side. Yeah, I have very bad and sad memories of Janet Reno's armored corps at Waco.

[mflasch]

The bad guys get more and more powerful weapons, so I am all for the police having whatever capability is necessary to deal with them. As far as the Missouri problem, there seems to be a misunderstanding of the definition of "protest" vs "riot." Of course this isn't the first time that they use this as and excuse to "loot and burn" and maybe Al Sharpton should address this problem instead of continuing his inflammatory remarks.

[Villager Audio Video]

What law enforcement agencies have "shoulder fired missiles"? There is a difference between armored personal carriers, combat fatigues, semi automatic rifles and " tanks and shoulder fired missiles".

Officers have to protect themselves and the people but tanks and RPG's are military only.

[kittygilchrist]

Are tanks and shoulder fired missiles too much?

Where, why, when?

[manaboutown]

They need to arrest and incarcerate the low lifes looting, burning down buildings and committing other felonies. These rioters are criminals.

[VT2TV]

When I was being raised, if you had a police officer tell you to do something, the response would have been "Yes Sir", and you did it. Or if any adult told you to do anything for that matter. I think that there are times when law enforcement uses excessive force, but I can't totally blame them for everything they are accused of doing. Instead of saying "Yes Sir" these days, the accused will fight and struggle, and often the officer is in danger of being hurt himself. Not to mention when the riot crowds arrive. They could care less if they cause injury to the police or even just bystanders. So, even if the officers are doing the right thing, you get the adrenalin pumping, and the crowds are yelling threats at the police, and sometimes they might use excessive force. I am not condoning that, but just explaining it. I have known many excellent police officers, and the way they are treated these days is far worse than most people know. Their lives are frequently on the line for just trying to do their job. There is not enough money to pay me to do their job. Again, I am not condoning when someone is hurt, when they are struggling, the officers get that adrenaline going, it may make them stronger than they realize. But nothing can justify the way the mobs respond by robbing, destroying other people's property, and hurting pther people. So it may come to using more military like force just to protect the innocent people. Just my opinion

[redwitch]

I think throwing molotov cocktails while rioting, burning and looting innocent civilians' stores or property is a "terrorist" attack, just as setting up pressure cookers full of nails and other shrapnel to explode and blow innocent bystanders' legs off and kill them was "terrorism" at an historic, celebrated athletic event.

Technically, I suppose you could call them acts of terrorism since they did involve violence and tried to make a political statement. However, I don't think the rioters in Missouri would be considered terrorists by today's meaning of the word any more than the civil rights riots of the 70's were considered acts of terrorism. I can remember seeing cities on fire and lots of looting after a team won a Super Bowl. Are those acts of terrorism? What about the riots after the Rodney King verdict? Terrorism? In all of these instances, Molotov cocktails were thrown, stores were looted, cars were burned. People even died. They were riots but not acts of terrorism.

Do I believe the police should be able to defend themselves and their citizens? You better believe I do. I've felt for a long time that our police should be well-trained in the use of automatic weapons and armed with the same. But rocket launchers and tanks? No way, no how. America should not end up looking like Gaza or having scenes like Tianmen Square. And if you think these couldn't happen here, remember Kent State.

[Patty55]

The bad guys get more and more powerful weapons, so I am all for the police having whatever capability is necessary to deal with them. As far as the Missouri problem, there seems to be a misunderstanding of the definition of "protest" vs "riot." Of course this isn't the first time that they use this as and excuse to "loot and burn" and maybe Al Sharpton should address this problem instead of continuing his inflammatory remarks.

Sharpton address the problem? Not likely. IMO the man has been a chit stirring hate monger since the Tawanna Brawley days.

[rubicon]

Indeed law enforcement walk a very precarious line and one way or another one group is not going to be pleased.

It would appear too often that these out of control protests are the work of outside agitators. To be sure sensible black leadership is lacking here.

The news media just exacerbate this issue by posing it as a national thing but its not its local. Its not Rodney King, Watts, etc

Black leadership needs to create an open and honest conversation with the black community and begin to penetrate and remove this misconception of its "victim mentality". Until and unless this is done disturbances such as this will continue because it is very easy to stoke an amber into a full fledged flame

Are the police becoming too militarized? This question losses its potency if it is only directed in connection with St. Louis. Rather look at it from the country as a whole. Criminal elements here, such as gangs, and crossing the border raising the stakes. Programs such as stop and frisk as proactive programs along with community education need to be increased and supported by politicians

[mflasch]

When I was being raised, if you had a police officer tell you to do something, the response would have been "Yes Sir", and you did it. Or if any adult told you to do anything for that matter. I think that there are times when law enforcement uses excessive force, but I can't totally blame them for everything they are accused of doing. Instead of saying "Yes Sir" these days, the accused will fight and struggle, and often the officer is in danger of being hurt himself. Not to mention when the riot crowds arrive. They could care less if they cause injury to the police or even just bystanders. So, even if the officers are doing the right thing, you get the adrenalin pumping, and the crowds are yelling threats at the police, and sometimes they might use excessive force. I am not condoning that, but just explaining it. I have known many excellent police officers, and the way they are treated these days is far worse than most people know. Their lives are frequently on the line for just trying to do their job. There is not enough money to pay me to do their job. Again, I am not condoning when someone is hurt, when they are struggling, the officers get that adrenaline going, it may make them stronger than they realize. But nothing can justify the way the mobs respond by robbing, destroying other people's property, and hurting pther people. So it may come to using more military like force just to protect the innocent people. Just my opinion

You are right on point. If you look back in time at past incidents like this, including Rodney King, if the culprits would have just done what the police officer told them to do, there would not have been an incident. But instead, they have a total disregard for the law and it leads to incidents like this and gives the "community" an excuse to riot. I never understood why they burn and loot their own community businesses, but I guess they look at it as a chance to get a bunch of free stuff.

[collie1228]

Yes. And this is the first (and most probably the last) time I've been on the same side as Al Sharpton.

[BarryRX]

I think the problem is that when you carry a very big hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. The police are most often the thin blue line that protects us from a host of very bad people. They are heroic and brave, and they are the ones who run towards the sound of gunfire. They perform countless acts of heroism and kindness that never make the newspapers. However, because of the dangerous and often thankless job they do, they can become a "closed society", only socializing with other police personnel. When that happens, there can be an "us against them" mentality that can lead to over reactions, brutality, and other misuses of power. One of the fears of our founding fathers was to have an army being boarded in our cities. If we dress our police in army type uniforms, and we arm them with army type weapons, we then have an army patrolling our streets in everything but title. Since the 1990's, the crime rate in this country has been dropping. But because of the terrorist attack of 9/11 we have equipped our police with many military type options, because they must now be prepared to respond to the very worst scenarios and do so safely. However, when that equipment, training, and mindset become a part of everyday normal police operations, I think we have the beginning of a real problem.

[greg&sueby]

it now seams that every police dept. no matter how small, has a swat team,
usually maned by ex military. Evan some small police depts, have armored trucks, sold as surplus by our military. The founding fathers made sure the military could not be used on our soil, but now you can not tell the differance between the police or the military. I admit hteir jobs are very difficult, but in the name of terrorism, we are losing our freedoms. Mark my words, the time is comming when
groups of 3 or more will be stopped (papers, id ect), and swat teams sent for something as minor as a phone tip of suspect behavior. I come from Michigan, and have seen teams sent to the wrong address, and killed innocent citizens. Its bad enough you can be held without trial, or access to a lawyer, all in the name of National Security. To be a free society, you have to assume some risks along the way. People today think the Government is the answer to all our problems. We are not allowed to think for ourselves, or evan to protect ourselves anymore. I for one think this is a very dangerous slippery slope that America will regret. But only when it is to late.

[TNLAKEPANDA]

It depends. If my first grade child were hiding in the bathroom of his classroom at Sandy Hook Elementary, I'd be glad to see SWAT teams on the roof.

We are not talking about SWAT team. We are talking about Military equipment. If you don't have at least some concerns about local police having such equipment you need to read more history books. Don't be a fool.

[Walt.]

Yes... it's almost gotten to the point of parody. Somebody takes a hostage in some suburban neighborhood and 200 police show up in swat team gear (including camoflage suits, armored personnel carriers, etc). What used to be a 2 hour stand-off with a handful of police surrounding a house turns into people playing soldiers on D-Day.
As far as Furguson goes... the police showed up with all that gear and equipment. They then proceeded to watch as a mob ran wild looting and burning. Hell... you could do that in Bermuda Shorts and a t-shirt. Maybe they should sell all that stuff to the Kurds.
Police need to be police not an army.

[billethkid]

SWAT teams and the like, heavily equipped with "offensive" type equipment have been around for years. Being quite effective at what they do when called upon.

Today's society that has/is/continues to become more tolerant/permissive of wrong doing has led to a breed of lawless individuals that has no fear of the police.

When incidents like the current MO situation arise, the media, the special interest groups, the Sharptons, the president all get their legal magnifying glass out and beat the drum for their favorite personal indulgence. They then procede to extrapolate an isolated incident to a national level as if it was the norm in every city in America.

And this particular event in MO is now spawning a splinter subject of how heavily armed are those who risk their lives every day to protect us...INSTEAD....of focusing on the perpetrators.

SHoulder fired missles and tanks :1rotfl::1rotfl:.....how about the missing information as in just exactly what police department has them....how many.....you know the old fashioned need for facts.

I personally believe the police should have what ever gear/eqipment it takes to give them what they need to aprehend and neutralize the bad guys.

[Challenger]

We are not talking about SWAT team. We are talking about Military equipment. If you don't have at least some concerns about local police having such equipment you need to read more history books. Don't be a fool.

Why include the last sentence-- To inflame? Too often we cut off worthwhile dialogue by such tactics

[justjim]

I think the problem is that when you carry a very big hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. The police are most often the thin blue line that protects us from a host of very bad people. They are heroic and brave, and they are the ones who run towards the sound of gunfire. They perform countless acts of heroism and kindness that never make the newspapers. However, because of the dangerous and often thankless job they do, they can become a "closed society", only socializing with other police personnel. When that happens, there can be an "us against them" mentality that can lead to over reactions, brutality, and other misuses of power. One of the fears of our founding fathers was to have an army being boarded in our cities. If we dress our police in army type uniforms, and we arm them with army type weapons, we then have an army patrolling our streets in everything but title. Since the 1990's, the crime rate in this country has been dropping. But because of the terrorist attack of 9/11 we have equipped our police with many military type options, because they must now be prepared to respond to the very worst scenarios and do so safely. However, when that equipment, training, and mindset become a part of everyday normal police operations, I think we have the beginning of a real problem.

You make some very good points. Government tends to overreact----working for the "Government" in another lifetime----Ive seen it many many times. It can be a fine line between our Freedom and overreaction by our Government.

What I saw on television for several nights was definitely what I am talking about. Its a slippery slope that our country must avoid.

On the other hand, the police doing their everyday job, protect our communities from some very bad people. They earn and deserve our respect for a job well done. :thumbup:

[shcisamax]

We are not talking about SWAT team. We are talking about Military equipment. If you don't have at least some concerns about local police having such equipment you need to read more history books. Don't be a fool.

Right on!

[sunnyatlast]

We are not talking about SWAT team. We are talking about Military equipment. If you don't have at least some concerns about local police having such equipment you need to read more history books. Don't be a fool.

Being a "fool", I've been reading about how local police units GET all this military equipment!

Maybe others here should read about Congress and the Pentagon's role in that, too:

"One program often credited as a source of military resources deployed by police department is the Defense Department’s Excess Property Program — also known as the 1033 program — which gives equipment, including weapons, to law enforcement agencies.

Transfers through the program have increased dramatically in recent years.

In 2006, it made 34,708 transfers worth $33 million to law enforcement agencies. Last year, the number grew to 51,779 transfers valued at $420 million, according to data provided by the Defense Logistics Agency, which manages the program. Through April of this year, the agency had made 15,516 transfers of equipment worth $206 million.



Militarized police in Ferguson unsettles some; Pentagon gives cities equipment - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/militarized-police-in-ferguson-unsettles-some-pentagon-gives-cities-equipment/2014/08/14/4651f670-2401-11e4-86ca-6f03cbd15c1a_story.html)

[rubicon]

Where, why, when?

kitty: Of all the going back and forth on this issue your three words describe it best and in my humble view can also be expressed in one word "depends"

[shcisamax]

...

[billethkid]

I remain a believer that if some would spend a few days in the shoes of our law enforcement one would become educated in why they sometimes do what they do. And PLEASE do not tar the outstanding work that more than 95% of law enforcement does it right.

If one has not been there then most commentary is nothing more than an opinion. Which we are all entitled to have....right and or wrong.

Unfortunately far too many believe what the media and special interest groups and politicians are peddaling to benefit their agenda......not yours or that of law enforcement.

Some do not like the police because they get nailed for a moving violation. What that objects to is enforcement.....ENFORCEMENT......you remember.....like we used to have in past generations.... before the watering down and the fear of offending someone. Our police forces are referred to as LEO.....law ENFORCEMENT officers!!!

I still want to know where the rocket launchers and tanks are being utilized?

[Bogie Shooter]

A partial list of the kinds of equipment being donated to police departments around the country. A Google search will provide many more diverse lists.
List of Military Equipment Used by Local Police from the 1033 Program - FPRN Radio (http://fprnradio.com/list-of-military-equipment-used-by-local-police-from-the-1033-program/)

[billethkid]

A partial list of the kinds of equipment being donated to police departments around the country. A Google search will provide many more diverse lists.
List of Military Equipment Used by Local Police from the 1033 Program - FPRN Radio (http://fprnradio.com/list-of-military-equipment-used-by-local-police-from-the-1033-program/)

a good start and use of eqipment to help fight crime and terrorism.

Now we need a list of the weaponary used by criminals and terrorists.

[kittygilchrist]

We have become a culture of violence. We are in a period of transition where that will show up on the streets and neighborhoods and everywhere else. If that sounds pessimistic, go try to rent a movie without violence. Compare how many you can rent with violence to the ones without.

[old moe]

:(QUOTE=Bogie Shooter;923688]A partial list of the kinds of equipment being donated to police departments around the country. A Google search will provide many more diverse lists.
List of Military Equipment Used by Local Police from the 1033 Program - FPRN Radio (http://fprnradio.com/list-of-military-equipment-used-by-local-police-from-the-1033-program/)[/QUOTE]

:cry: Wouldn't it be nice if the Ferguson, Mo. police dept. had some of this equipment now?? :police:

[janmcn]

Police departments across the country should be more reflective of the complexion of their community. Ferguson, population just over 20,000 and 70% black, has a police force of 50 white officers. That would be comparable to The Villages, at 100,000 population and mostly white, having a police force of 250 black officers.

[Bogie Shooter]

:(QUOTE=Bogie Shooter;923688]A partial list of the kinds of equipment being donated to police departments around the country. A Google search will provide many more diverse lists.
List of Military Equipment Used by Local Police from the 1033 Program - FPRN Radio (http://fprnradio.com/list-of-military-equipment-used-by-local-police-from-the-1033-program/)

:cry: Wouldn't it be nice if the Ferguson, Mo. police dept. had some of this equipment now?? :police:[/Q

[sunnyatlast]

Police departments across the country should be more reflective of the complexion of their community. Ferguson, population just over 20,000 and 70% black, has a police force of 50 white officers. That would be comparable to The Villages, at 100,000 population and mostly white, having a police force of 250 black officers.

Police departments across the country hire from a pool of applicants for the job. If a person does not apply for the job, that tells me they are not interested in the job. A disinterested worker who's not motivated enough to even apply is not a viable candidate for a job!

As for TV hypothetically having 250 black officers for all of us, so WHAT???? If people bother to apply, go to school and graduate and get licensed by passing the exams, we don't care what color they are. That hypothetical scenario seems to assume that a majority of black officers here would mistreat us because of our color, which would be "prejudice".

[billethkid]

Police departments across the country should be more reflective of the complexion of their community. Ferguson, population just over 20,000 and 70% black, has a police force of 50 white officers. That would be comparable to The Villages, at 100,000 population and mostly white, having a police force of 250 black officers.

Ferguson probably still holds to a standard we all miss.....what standard would that be?

If you are not qualified and or you cannot pass the test YOU DO NOT GET THE JOB!!! No racism or politics or religion at all.

[Rags123]

Police departments across the country should be more reflective of the complexion of their community. Ferguson, population just over 20,000 and 70% black, has a police force of 50 white officers. That would be comparable to The Villages, at 100,000 population and mostly white, having a police force of 250 black officers.

Not sure I understand the logic being applied here.

Without knowing the application rates among races, along with any affirmative action rules applied, etc. It has been shown in many cases, not saying this one, that affirmative action tends to lower the standards for the positions.

[Bogie Shooter]

I still want to know where the rocket launchers and tanks are being utilized?

I have corrected my OP. I meant to say grenade launchers.
(A Google search will identify those departments with the launchers.)

Here is the tank.

In Montgomery County, Texas, the sheriff’s department owns a $300,000 pilotless surveillance drone, like those used to hunt down al Qaeda terrorists in the remote tribal regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan. In Augusta, Maine, with fewer than 20,000 people and where an officer hasn’t died from gunfire in the line of duty in more than 125 years, police bought eight $1,500 tactical vests. Police in Des Moines, Iowa, bought two $180,000 bomb-disarming robots, while an Arizona sheriff is now the proud owner of a surplus Army tank. - Source, Local Cops Ready for War With Homeland Security-Funded Military Weapons - The Daily Beast (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/12/20/local-cops-ready-for-war-with-homeland-security-funded-military-weapons.html#)

I think the bottom line is that a whole lot of military grade equipment and firepower is now in the hands of local police departments. Good or bad is up to you.

[sunnyatlast]

I have corrected my OP. I meant to say grenade launchers.
(A Google search will identify those departments with the launchers.)

Here is the tank.

In Montgomery County, Texas, the sheriff’s department owns a $300,000 pilotless surveillance drone, like those used to hunt down al Qaeda terrorists in the remote tribal regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan. In Augusta, Maine, with fewer than 20,000 people and where an officer hasn’t died from gunfire in the line of duty in more than 125 years, police bought eight $1,500 tactical vests. Police in Des Moines, Iowa, bought two $180,000 bomb-disarming robots, while an Arizona sheriff is now the proud owner of a surplus Army tank. - Source, Local Cops Ready for War With Homeland Security-Funded Military Weapons - The Daily Beast (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/12/20/local-cops-ready-for-war-with-homeland-security-funded-military-weapons.html#)

I think the bottom line is that a whole lot of military grade equipment and firepower is now in the hands of local police departments. Good or bad is up to you.

Not to justify a supposed "need" by local police departments, but ISIS has seized and is using our military grade equipment left for the Iraqi military, now collapsed.

ISIS has promised to show up here in the U.S. and specifically in the White House, to place their caliphate here.

The 2nd Amendment provides for a "well regulated militia". Maybe Homeland Security is preparing localities for events we don't know about.

"A large quantity of the weapons that ISIS seized from Mosul were supplied by the U.S. to the Iraqi Army. ISIS also fields weapons produced in Russia, China, the Balkans, and Iran."

Read more: ISIS Military Equipment Breakdown - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-military-equipment-breakdown-2014-7?op=1#ixzz3AWB8Tsp1)

[getdul981]

Are tanks and shoulder fired missiles too much?

Not if that's what it takes to maintain law and order.

[buggyone]

There have been postings on past threads regarding the types of weapons that citizens should or should not be allowed to own.

One of the responses was that citizens should be able to own whatever weapon that the military has so the military cannot over run citizens. To me, that is ridiculous. Would you ver envision citizens being allowed to own grenade launchers, shoulder fired missiles, or cluster bombs?

Police do need armored personnel carriers at times and high powered rifles, automatic weapons, etc in some circumstances.

Basically, in Ferguson, the police have done a Keystone Kops routine. The right hand does not know what the left is doing at the same time.

[sunnyatlast]

There have been postings on past threads regarding the types of weapons that citizens should or should not be allowed to own.

One of the responses was that citizens should be able to own whatever weapon that the military has so the military cannot over run citizens. To me, that is ridiculous. Would you ver envision citizens being allowed to own grenade launchers, shoulder fired missiles, or cluster bombs?

Police do need armored personnel carriers at times and high powered rifles, automatic weapons, etc in some circumstances.

Basically, in Ferguson, the police have done a Keystone Kops routine. The right hand does not know what the left is doing at the same time.

On this: "One of the responses was that citizens should be able to own whatever weapon that the military has so the military cannot over run citizens."

Few, if any people on here have said citizens should have whatever weaponry the military has, like 'grenade launchers, should fired missiles, or cluster bombs'.

Most people want weapons for self defense of their person and property and for hunting, not for defending some imagined weirdo militia compound cited for a strawman argument.

[mgcsooner]

When the answer is always bigger guns, you need to step back and think where this leads on a longer term basis. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against gun ownership, but escalating the level of armaments thought to be needed should be seriously questioned. We can't guarantee they will not fall into the wrong hands. It is just a matter of time, it will happen if we stay on this course.

[billethkid]

Ferguson cops = keystone cops = promoting media's aspect to maintain/further an agenda.

The media's priorities are to be first (does not matter if correct or not)

To entertain

To maintain/further their agenda (which does not have to relate to anything in the case).

How about some opinions of what the Ferguson residents think..".yeah right!

[Patty55]

Evidently the Ferguson police aren't too militarized, the situation is still out of control. :shrug:

Somewhere upthread they said there are 50 LEO. I feel for these guys, I guess that shakes out to about 13 per shift, doesn't seem like a lot under the circumstances.

Maybe if the rioters don't want to endure the police presence they should knock it off and go home.

[buggyone]

On this: "One of the responses was that citizens should be able to own whatever weapon that the military has so the military cannot over run citizens."

Few, if any people on here have said citizens should have whatever weaponry the military has, like 'grenade launchers, should fired missiles, or cluster bombs'.

Most people want weapons for self defense of their person and property and for hunting, not for defending some imagined weirdo militia compound cited for a strawman argument.

I have absolutely no problem with people having "normal" firearms (pistols, shotguns, rifles) but not tactical weapons like "streetsweeper shotguns, assault style rifles with huge capacity magazines, etc.

To me, a well-regulated militia means the National Guard. It does not mean a group in an Idaho compound.

[Rags123]

I have absolutely no problem with people having "normal" firearms (pistols, shotguns, rifles) but not tactical weapons like "streetsweeper shotguns, assault style rifles with huge capacity magazines, etc.

To me, a well-regulated militia means the National Guard. It does not mean a group in an Idaho compound.


I understand your concern with Idaho, but have you noticed the firepower brandished by the Black Panthers ?

And if you read history, the movement to arm citizens began in the 60's in response to the Black Panthers..




"It is ironic that the modern-day argument for citizens to arm themselves against unwarranted government oppression -- dominated, as it is, by angry white men -- has its roots in the foundation of the 1960s Black Panther movement. Huey Newton and Bobby Seale became inspired by Malcolm X's admonishment that because government was "either unable or unwilling to protect the lives and property" of African Americans, they ought to defend themselves "by any means necessary."

Black Panthers and Gun Control: The NRA's Flip Flop - The Root (http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2013/01/black_panthers_and_gun_control_the_nras_flip_flop. html)

Same group that broke up the news conference the other day. Of course they were from outside that neighborhood as have been most of the trouble

[buggyone]

I understand your concern with Idaho, but have you noticed the firepower brandished by the Black Panthers ?

And if you read history, the movement to arm citizens began in the 60's in response to the Black Panthers..




"It is ironic that the modern-day argument for citizens to arm themselves against unwarranted government oppression -- dominated, as it is, by angry white men -- has its roots in the foundation of the 1960s Black Panther movement. Huey Newton and Bobby Seale became inspired by Malcolm X's admonishment that because government was "either unable or unwilling to protect the lives and property" of African Americans, they ought to defend themselves "by any means necessary."

Black Panthers and Gun Control: The NRA's Flip Flop - The Root (http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2013/01/black_panthers_and_gun_control_the_nras_flip_flop. html)

Same group that broke up the news conference the other day. Of course they were from outside that neighborhood as have been most of the trouble


That was an excellent post and the linked article was excellent as well. Hopefully, it will be read by all the NRA supporters on this forum.

[Miles42]

Sadly the criminal element in Missouri is using this incident as an excuse to do what they do best. Live off the sweat of others. The police need to take action and do what ever needs to be done to halt the looting.

[Dennisadamek@yahoo.com]

Hands up don't shoot! How do you not get shot by a policeman when you are unarmed.

[Villages PL]

Are tanks and shoulder fired missiles too much?

None of the above items will be used in response to jaywalking, parking violations, spitting or any other such violations.

The tanks and shoulder fired missiles, if they have them, will be kept in the police dept. garage until such time as they are needed.

Where I would draw the line: Local police departments should not have the atomic bomb....:ho:

[graciegirl]

I certainly don't have the answer to this question, but given what little we know of the shooter and the victim, which one would you pick to ...........trust? Are they both bullies? I don't know. I know what I think.

It is hard not to jump to that conclusion for me, living my life the way I have and having the experiences I have had. Maybe I am not thinking the right way...I don't know.

But I feel fear. Is it justified?

[Rags123]

I certainly don't have the answer to this question, but given what little we know of the shooter and the victim, which one would you pick to ...........trust? Are they both bullies? I don't know. I know what I think.

It is hard not to jump to that conclusion for me, living my life the way I have and having the experiences I have had. Maybe I am not thinking the right way...I don't know.

But I feel fear. Is it justified?

I know not even close to enough about the policeman or the young victim to even come close to a judgement on either, and would hope everyone just stays cool until we do know.

This "RUSH to justice" is a media event created by the same old actors.

Most whites are killed by whites...most blacks are killed by blacks...THAT is a statistical fact.

When a white is killed by a black, it is newsworthy for a short time. When a young black is killed by a white, the difference is that the drumbeat will go on as long as possible...the looting and basically destroying business will continue...BECAUSE there is a ready made "COTTAGE INDUSTRY" already in place to insure guilt is well spread among ALL whites, and in this case all policemen.

Al Sharpton and is ilk are at the ready to insure the yelling and screaming just continues...until he gets the POTUS involved..the attorney general and all.

ANY kind of rush to judgement in any other case would be stopped, caution exerted, but here there is a call for arrest NOW.

Sharpton, and he is not the only one live for these moments, and we all know how he and others simply "flirt" with facts (see the Brawley case)

Meanwhile the inexcusable looting will continue and the rhetoric will keep on.

Please, let everybody do their job....get the h..l off the streets....stop burning the local businesses....AND SOMEBODY tell these headline seeking parasites to go home

[rubicon]

First based on some of the previous comments made it seems in this day and age the only time race is not an issue is if the person is white but that's the subject of another thread

Are the protesters all from Ferguson? No there outside agitators and gangsters that want a cover so they can loot and their greed and their mission is damaging race relations

Given 9/11, the stronghold American gangs have on many cities, the disregard for the rule of law by so many Americans and the continuing and increasing danger at our borders America is facing a more dangerous existence and I welcome the build up by police departments because they are eventually going to need sophisticated deterrents

I truly believe in live and let live and I thought this race issue was long behind us but something changed? if the law abiding citizens of Ferguson were smart they protest the Sharptons and agitators and tell them to go back home and let the investigative process continue

[Patty55]

I truly believe in live and let live and I thought this race issue was long behind us but something changed? if the law abiding citizens of Ferguson were smart they protest the Sharptons and agitators and tell them to go back home and let the investigative process continue

IMO, what changed is we went from a country of accomplishment to a country of entitlement.

After Howard Beach Mayor Koch made a comment to the effect that "there are more whites killed in black neighborhoods than blacks in white, the difference is we call it getting off at the wrong subway stop."

[Advogado]

Hands up don't shoot! How do you not get shot by a policeman when you are unarmed.

Very simple. You don't attack him as you try to escape after robbing a liquor store.