Ferguson shooting vs Orlando shooting

[jebartle]

Michael Brown (a man of color) shot by Mo. police, and white female killed by Orlando police..


I'm not comparing shootings but wish the community responses were the same....In Ferguson, Mo, looting and destroying property by small group and protests by community.....while in Orlando, no response at all.

I can only hope that there is a peaceful resolution.

[Shimpy]

Michael Brown (a man of color) shot by Mo. police, and white female killed by Orlando police..


I can guarantee you Al Sharpton won't be visiting Orlando.

[Bogie Shooter]

Just another of the over 275 shootings every day in the US.

[justjim]

I can guarantee you Al Sharpton won't be visiting Orlando.

CNN or any other national news cable won't be there in Orlando either.

[TNLAKEPANDA]

You can safely blame everything that has and will happen in Ferguson directly related to Media Hype. No media No Hype No Problems. It goes away very quickly. Not sure what is worse our politicians or our national media!

[Rags123]

Michael Brown (a man of color) shot by Mo. police, and white female killed by Orlando police..


I'm not comparing shootings but wish the community responses were the same....In Ferguson, Mo, looting and destroying property by small group and protests by community.....while in Orlando, no response at all.

I can only hope that there is a peaceful resolution.

Well, the President of the United States has dispatched the Attorney General of the United States there NOT to address the demonstrations, BUT the actual shooting and according to news reports this afternoon and he is basically flooding the zone with investigators.

THAT will surely calm everyone !

[karostay]

Isn't white a color
couldn't of stated a man of color and a female of color were shot by police
in separate incidents Why try to stir more dramatic controversy

[DougB]

White isn't really a color, it is actually the absence of color. Unless speaking about light.

[sunnyatlast]

You can safely blame everything that has and will happen in Ferguson directly related to Media Hype. No media No Hype No Problems. It goes away very quickly. Not sure what is worse our politicians or our national media!

And so the rioters, looters, arsonists and Black Panthers inciting their troops to chant louder and stronger that they want "DEATH" to Officer Wilson have no responsibility for anything going on there???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwJrG2AMghw

[DaleMN]

Racism is alive and well in The Villages. :doh:

[graciegirl]

Racism is alive and well in The Villages. :doh:


What do you mean?

[Tennisnut]

The white woman was struck by one stray bullet inside a building directed at a guy outside a bar with a gun. The Ferguson shooting was at unarmed man in the middle of the street struck deliberately by 6 bullets. How do they even compare?

[Advogado]

The white woman was struck by one stray bullet inside a building directed at a guy outside a bar with a gun. The Ferguson shooting was at unarmed man in the middle of the street struck deliberately by 6 bullets. How do they even compare?They don't seem to compare at all. The Ferguson shooting was that of a liquor-store robber, fleeing the scene of his crime, who apparently attacked a police officer. The Orlando victim, according to the information in this thread, was apparently an innocent bystander. It seems like maybe we should be more concerned about what happened to the Orlando victim.

[BarryRX]

Racism is alive and well in The Villages. :doh:

It appears that way to me too. A few points to be made here. If and when white people are stopped disproportionately while walking or driving just because of the color of their skin, then some of these comments would make sense to me. If and when white people are given harsher sentences for the same crimes than other people, then some of these comments would make sense to me. If there was a long history of white people being enslaved, lynched, denied jobs, denied housing, denied loans, all based on the color of their skin, then some of these comments would make sense to me. The shooting in Orlando appears to be accidental while the police were responding to a call about an intoxicated man brandishing a gun. There was no intent to shoot the woman. (And let's not forget that once again a brave police officer was injured protecting us). To imply that the two shootings are similar is wrong, but to further imply that there is reverse discrimination against whites because the media isn't fanning the flames in Orlando is ignorant.

[Tennisnut]

They don't seem to compare at all. The Ferguson shooting was that of a liquor-store robber, fleeing the scene of his crime, who apparently attacked a police officer. The Orlando victim, according to the information in this thread, was apparently an innocent bystander. It seems like maybe we should be more concerned about what happened to the Orlando victim.

You are right that they don't compare. Orlando could be considered accidental manslaughter and the Ferguson shooting could be considered first degree murder.

[billethkid]

It appears that way to me too. A few points to be made here. If and when white people are stopped disproportionately while walking or driving just because of the color of their skin, then some of these comments would make sense to me. If and when white people are given harsher sentences for the same crimes than other people, then some of these comments would make sense to me. If there was a long history of white people being enslaved, lynched, denied jobs, denied housing, denied loans, all based on the color of their skin, then some of these comments would make sense to me. The shooting in Orlando appears to be accidental while the police were responding to a call about an intoxicated man brandishing a gun. There was no intent to shoot the woman. (And let's not forget that once again a brave police officer was injured protecting us). To imply that the two shootings are similar is wrong, but to further imply that there is reverse discrimination against whites because the media isn't fanning the flames in Orlando is ignorant.

One big assumption being made, that each allegation WAS in fact based on the color of one's skin. It does make the story flow better for today's mindset.

[graciegirl]

It appears that way to me too. A few points to be made here. If and when white people are stopped disproportionately while walking or driving just because of the color of their skin, then some of these comments would make sense to me. If and when white people are given harsher sentences for the same crimes than other people, then some of these comments would make sense to me. If there was a long history of white people being enslaved, lynched, denied jobs, denied housing, denied loans, all based on the color of their skin, then some of these comments would make sense to me. The shooting in Orlando appears to be accidental while the police were responding to a call about an intoxicated man brandishing a gun. There was no intent to shoot the woman. (And let's not forget that once again a brave police officer was injured protecting us). To imply that the two shootings are similar is wrong, but to further imply that there is reverse discrimination against whites because the media isn't fanning the flames in Orlando is ignorant.

In this day and age, all races should be treated equally. But no race should be given advantage just because of their color, such as affirmative action, That isn't fair. If a person does something wrong than they should be punished. I don't know the statistics of white versus black crime and I don't care. Just that each are punished for breaking the law.

The shooting in Orlando appears to be accidental but we don't KNOW what really transpired in Ferguson. When I see this guy steal things and push around the shop keeper I am not thinking positive no matter WHAT his color is. What IF he did climb in the police car and try to beat up the police officer? We don't know what happened yet completely. I am prejudiced because I was raised by a police officer and I have always respected the law and officers of the law.

If this police officer deliberately killed this young man, what was his motive?

If he struggled with the victim and the victim was trying to hurt him, his adrenaline would have been high.

I think we need to keep an open mind and try to be color blind. It is just as bad to blame one race as it is to blame the other. None of us had any choice in the color of our skin. But we have choices daily in how we act. Being enslaved was a long time ago, just as the second world war was a long time ago. This is now. None of us had any say in people being enslaved or Germans killing Jews. No one I know would have agreed with either thing. Everyone I know find both things abhorrent.

I find it awful that people use this as a screen to loot and steal. That is very wrong to me.

[BarryRX]

In this day and age, all races should be treated equally. But no race should be given advantage just because of their color, such as affirmative action, That isn't fair. If a person does something wrong than they should be punished. I don't know the statistics of white versus black crime and I don't care. Just that each are punished for breaking the law.

The shooting in Orlando appears to be accidental but we don't KNOW what really transpired in Ferguson. When I see this guy steal things and push around the shop keeper I am not thinking positive no matter WHAT his color is. What IF he did climb in the police car and try to beat up the police officer? We don't know what happened yet completely. I am prejudiced because I was raised by a police officer and I have always respected the law and officers of the law.

If this police officer deliberately killed this young man, what was his motive?

If he struggled with the victim and the victim was trying to hurt him, his adrenaline would have been high.

I think we need to keep an open mind and try to be color blind. It is just as bad to blame one race as it is to blame the other. None of us had any choice in the color of our skin. But we have choices daily in how we act. Being enslaved was a long time ago, just as the second world war was a long time ago. This is now. None of us had any say in people being enslaved or Germans killing Jews. No one I know would have agreed with either thing. Everyone I know find both things abhorrent.

I find it awful that people use this as a screen to loot and steal. That is very wrong to me.

Gracie, I have to disagree with you about affirmative action. A little history first: while slavery in this country ended in 1865, blacks still had to live under de facto segregation (Jim Crowe laws that began during the reconstruction period of 1865 to 1877) and continued until 1965, which was only 49 years ago. Affirmative action was needed to even a playing field that had been uneven for so very long. I think a much better argument would be whether or not it has gone on long enough to achieve its goals and that to keep practicing it amounts to reverse discrimination. I would agree with the premise that it's time for it to end, but I can't agree that it was never needed or necessary. I also stand by my previous point that comparing the shootings in Ferguson and Orlando is superficial and has racist overtones. Perhaps it's because what I think some people are implying is that the two shootings were the same thing, but look what those animals in Ferguson are doing while we civilized folks in Orlando are cool.

[jebartle]

Please no posts that I'm implying that anyone is a worm, Yipsters!
I will point out however that I was not comparing the shootings but only WISHING the outcome was more civilized....This is 2014, a good year to start the healing of race discrimination in this country.

[B767drvr]

Much more information was released today: 12 independent witnesses corroborate the police officer's story that he was attacked (his eye socket was fractured by punches to his face from Mr. Brown - again corroborated by all 12 witnesses.) Furthermore, the police officer shot out of fear for his life as Mr. Brown rushed him a second time.

This is a far different story than first portrayed: that of a "gentle soul" who wouldn't harm anyone and who was executed from behind with his hands raised in the air.

What is known is that minutes before his death, Mr. Brown robbed a convenience store.

[Advogado]

While I have an open mind on the matter, as more and more facts come out, it
appears that the shooting of Michael Brown, like that of Trayvon Martin, was justified and that we once again have an example of the media convicting an innocent person on the basis of incomplete and distorted information. The media was completely suckered by the rabble rousers in the Trayvon Martin case, and the same thing seems to be happening here. But let's wait till we have all the facts.

[Walter123]

I don't understand why all the looting. That sends the wrong message to the world. Can't say I'm surprised though.

[justjim]

Lets not forget the Attorneys inciting the "thugs"in Fergusion. The Attorneys looking for notoriety calling the police officer a murderer. That hasnt been proven yet as the investigation wasnt even completed and certainly no trial has beern held. I thought in America you were innocent until proven guilty. An Attorney should be held accountable for his actions and held to ethical standards IMHO.

[billethkid]

get the Holders, the Jacksons and the Sharptons and all the imports they bring with or incent to come, who are all the real racists....out of the event and leave it to the locals.

[mflasch]

Once again, as in so many of these cases, if the perpetrator had complied with the police officer's instructions, there would not have been an incident. Bottom line, that's the real issue. There is no respect for the law and these idiots think they can do whatever they want and get away with it.
Then you add the race baiters like Sharpton, Jackson and Holder to the mix and the "community" feels justified to burn, loot and destroy their own places of business. How getting a few new pairs of Nike's shows a concern for the police officer's action is not something that I can comprehend.

[Tennisnut]

Hopefully when everything comes out, we will find out that Officer Wilson had respect for the law and that the shooting of 6 bullets were justified.

[graciegirl]

Hopefully when everything comes out, we will find out that Officer Wilson had respect for the law and that the shooting of 6 bullets were justified.

Here is a link to CNN where it says Officer Wilson was "briefly taken to the hospital for facial injuries". You have to read because it is waaaaay down.

Michael Brown investigations continue -- as do tensions - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/us/whats-next-ferguson-missouri-michael-brown/index.html)


Michael Brown was very TALL, 6'4" and apparently very young and strong. It is very hard to know what to think about all this but I am hopeful too that the truth will come out and peace will be restored. I also believe in Santa. Read below.

[Tennisnut]

Here is a link to CNN where it says Officer Wilson was "briefly taken to the hospital for facial injuries". You have to read because it is waaaaay down.

Michael Brown investigations continue -- as do tensions - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/15/us/whats-next-ferguson-missouri-michael-brown/index.html)


Michael Brown was very TALL, 6'4" and apparently very young and strong. It is very hard to know what to think about all this but I am hopeful too that the truth will come out and peace will be restored. I also believe in Santa. Read below.

Fortunately two to the head will stop anyone, even a 6'4" young black man!

[graciegirl]

Fortunately two to the head will stop anyone, even a 6'4" young black man!


Was he black?

[Tennisnut]

Was he black?

Yes

[B767drvr]

Hopefully when everything comes out, we will find out that Officer Wilson had respect for the law and that the shooting of 6 bullets were justified.

Your point about "justifying 6 bullets" to stop an attacker reminded me of something I read a while ago and thought may be of interest to others.

Basically, I was shocked to learn that when soldiers "practice" shooting at targets on the firing range their accuracy is generally impressive… well into the 90%+ accuracy… BUT, when firing under duress in combat, that same impressive accuracy dropped into the single-digit accuracy range (<10%.)

Adrenaline, perspiration, increased heart rate, fear, shaking (hand tremors), etc… all interfered with firing accuracy. I imagine that a law enforcement officer in a perceived life or death situation would be hampered with the same inaccuracy problems as a soldier in combat. Therefore, my opinion is I wouldn't assign any negative intent on the police officer's part simply due to the number of rounds fired. My guess is he suffered from the same inaccuracy issue (4 of the 6 rounds hit Mr. Brown's arm - versus the standard chest shot aim point.)

[billethkid]

a no risk, no involvement arm chair discussion of how many times to shoot to be effective contributes absolutely nothing more than intellectual hypothecizing.

Only when YOU are personally confronted, under durees with fear of losing your life are you qualified to say what should be done, when and how many times or not.

Hmmmmnnnn......I wonder why it is that swat/seal type training employs triple taps.
In the intellectual arm chair mode, it would seem one well placed shot should be sufficient.....of course I am being sarcastic!

[Advogado]

Hopefully when everything comes out, we will find out that Officer Wilson had respect for the law and that the shooting of 6 bullets were justified.
If one bullet was justified, then 6 probably were. The media commentators focusing on 6 shots apparently have little knowledge of firearms and combat-shooting situations. If you are justified in firing that first bullet, you keep shooting until the threat is eliminated. Remember that with a semi-automatic pistol (now standard police-issue and bad-guy carried), six shots can be fired in a couple of seconds--in a stress situation and not having time to carefully aim. Given the number of shots in Ferguson's arm rather than his torso, the officer apparently did not have time to carefully aim. (By the way, frequently, one or two shots will not stop a determined attacker.)

I continue to find it both astounding and disturbing how many people and the media seem determined to convict the police officer of murder before all the facts are available. While we should withhold judgment on the matter for the time being, as more and more information becomes publicly available, it is looking more and more as though the police officer was justified in the shooting and that the national media has once again made a fool of itself.

[B767drvr]

I continue to find it both astounding and disturbing how many people and the media seem determined to convict the police officer of murder before all the facts are available. While we should withhold judgment on the matter for the time being, as more and more information becomes publicly available, it is looking more and more as though the police officer was justified in the shooting and that the national media has once again made a fool of itself.

I agree Advogado. I read an article recently on this subject which cited opinion polls and broke down various demographic groups and their views on what occurred/is occurring in Ferguson. I was surprised to read there was a stronger correlation to "how you view the world" (the word we are not supposed to reference or interject in our posts lest we be sanctioned) than your racial background. People with a certain "view of the world" overwhelmingly blamed the police while people with a different "view of the world" overwhelming supported the police. Racial demographics were secondary to your "world view" as far as correlation to blame was concerned. Interesting.

[Rags123]

Advogado said...

"I continue to find it both astounding and disturbing how many people and the media seem determined to convict the police officer of murder before all the facts are available."


I am forcing myself to watch coverage on MSNBC, CNN and FOX.....forcing because some have said they are forcing themselves to watch the beheading tape (or did when it was available) to remind them of evil, and that is my reason for watching this coverage because it seems all vestige of innocence or even a chance of innocence has long departed.

[buggyone]

If one bullet was justified, then 6 probably were. The media commentators focusing on 6 shots apparently have little knowledge of firearms and combat-shooting situations. If you are justified in firing that first bullet, you keep shooting until the threat is eliminated. Remember that with a semi-automatic pistol (now standard police-issue and bad-guy carried), six shots can be fired in a couple of seconds--in a stress situation and not having time to carefully aim. Given the number of shots in Ferguson's arm rather than his torso, the officer apparently did not have time to carefully aim. (By the way, frequently, one or two shots will not stop a determined attacker

First, the person killed was named Brown, not Ferguson.

Secondly, the fatal bullet was to Brown's head - the TOP of his head. He would have to be on the ground for that to happen. It was shown in the autopsy.

[Steve & Deanna]

First, the person killed was named Brown, not Ferguson.

Secondly, the fatal bullet was to Brown's head - the TOP of his head. He would have to be on the ground for that to happen. It was shown in the autopsy.
...or Mr. Brown was charging with his head down or even attempting to head butt the officer. However, the facts will come out.

[sunnyatlast]

Your point about "justifying 6 bullets" to stop an attacker reminded me of something I read a while ago and thought may be of interest to others.

Basically, I was shocked to learn that when soldiers "practice" shooting at targets on the firing range their accuracy is generally impressive… well into the 90%+ accuracy… BUT, when firing under duress in combat, that same impressive accuracy dropped into the single-digit accuracy range (<10%.)

Adrenaline, perspiration, increased heart rate, fear, shaking (hand tremors), etc… all interfered with firing accuracy. I imagine that a law enforcement officer in a perceived life or death situation would be hampered with the same inaccuracy problems as a soldier in combat. Therefore, my opinion is I wouldn't assign any negative intent on the police officer's part simply due to the number of rounds fired. My guess is he suffered from the same inaccuracy issue (4 of the 6 rounds hit Mr. Brown's arm - versus the standard chest shot aim point.)

Add to the adrenaline, perspiration, increased heart rate, fear, and hand tremors that affect shooting accuracy: An eye-socket-cheek blow out fracture….accompanied with bleeding and swelling….affecting VISION.

See CT scan of such an injury:

BREAKING REPORT: Officer Darren Wilson Suffered “Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket” During Mike Brown Attack | The Gateway Pundit (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/)

[karostay]

Racism is alive and well in The Villages. :doh:

Glad I'm not the only one that's notice it :BigApplause:

[DeanFL]

Glad I'm not the only one that's notice it :BigApplause:

Racism definition = NOT solely 'white against black'.

C'mon - This WOULD NOT even make it outside local media coverage IF it was a black cop or a white suspect. period. I must say I simply HATE this stuff - individuals and media groups making this solely a case of civil rights. Again what if the cop was black and the victim white? This happens many times in this country, and zip. But - no - Sharpton & Co arrive on scene and ramp it all up. Imagine if all the $$ spent to calm matters (...) and looted goods went to positive things. Oh, BTW, does it matter that unemployment is over 50% for those youth in Ferguson and surrounding areas?

I'm 66 - and it seems as if we have gained NOTHING in racial matters the last 40 years.

IF the policeman is NOT indicted - watch out - esp after the MO Governor promised a vigorous prosecution. Glad I'm in The Bubble here.

And - imagine being a cop in a 'difficult' patrol area, and having to think twice pulling out your weapon and shoot if your life is in danger? Should I or shouldn't I??? Or worse imagine being the wife of an officer knowing this potential challenge? Glad none of my relatives are in law enf...

[onslowe]

It is very unfortunate that knee jerk comments can be wildly cast about regarding the people of The Villages without basis in fact or reason.

I think it more unfortunate that the chief, unelected legal officer of this nation actually said that he was with Ferguson. Very comforting words from the supposedly neutral attorney general before all the facts are in, and of course, without polluting any trial in the future. Did he really have to say, at this time, and in that place, "I am a black man"?

There's a big and vital difference between truth and love of the law and "racism." If one respects our system, one doesn't wear tee shirts emblazoned with "No Justice, No peace!" And certainly those who respect our system do not loudly chant and protest outside court buildings for jurors in deliberation to hear a la Zimmerman.

This is a profitable media circus and a very activist agenda driven government's field day.

I'll read books.