A possible solution to rioting and looting:

[Villages PL]

When I was a young lad (1955) I remember there was severe flooding in Waterbury CT. This was because of two back-to-back hurricanes that saturated the land. This flood destroyed buildings and almost 90 people died.

What I remember is that the governor called in the National Guard and gave the following order: "If you see anyone looting, shoot to kill." I believe that put a stop to it.

Why don't we do that anymore?

[buggyone]

Because a human life is worth more than material possessions.

I presume you mean "looting" as in stealing and not "luting" as in playing a lute. That could put a different spin on the reply.

[bluedog103]

When I was a young lad (1955) I remember there was severe flooding in Waterbury CT. This was because of two back-to-back hurricanes that saturated the land. This flood destroyed buildings and almost 90 people died.

What I remember is that the governor called in the National Guard and gave the following order: "If you see anyone luting, shoot to kill." I believe that put a stop to it.

Why don't we do that anymore?
Because very few people play the lute anymore. :jester:

[sunnyatlast]

When I was a young lad (1955) I remember there was severe flooding in Waterbury CT. This was because of two back-to-back hurricanes that saturated the land. This flood destroyed buildings and almost 90 people died.

What I remember is that the governor called in the National Guard and gave the following order: "If you see anyone luting, shoot to kill." I believe that put a stop to it.

Why don't we do that anymore?

Today I'd ask "why are they not arrested, prosecuted, sentenced and put to work in sandbagging and cleaning up the flood zone, with a very small shovel?".

[billethkid]

Today I'd ask "why are they not arrested, prosecuted, sentenced and put to work in sandbagging and cleaning up the flood zone, with a very small shovel?".

NO FEAR!!!!!!! With Holder, Jackson, Sharpton, the WH and the lettered news media on their side....what do they have to worry about? Nothing.

We are continuing to water down what is illegal to allow more to get what they do not have......without having to work for or earn it.

[sunnyatlast]

NO FEAR!!!!!!! With Holder, Jackson, Sharpton, the WH and the lettered news media on their side....what do they have to worry about? Nothing.

We are continuing to water down what is illegal to allow more to get what they do not have......without having to work for or earn it.

"We" are continuing to water down what is illegal?

No, only those who pander for the votes of lawbreakers and their facilitators are watering down what is illegal.

[Villages PL]

Because a human life is worth more than material possessions.

I presume you mean "looting" as in stealing and not "luting" as in playing a lute. That could put a different spin on the reply.

Thanks. I don't know why I had so much trouble with it. Yes, I meant "looting". But at least I got a good laugh out of it. :a20:

[Villages PL]

Because very few people play the lute anymore. :jester:

Now you got me laughing all over again! :D

[karostay]

Just hold a Jobs fair they'll all leave

[rubicon]

A possible solution to rioting and looting?

Following the Civil rights Act of 1964 the federal government has spent billions and billions on minority programs ,forced integration, forced Affirmative Action,
place minorities at the head of the line at all universities, etc and still does. We have black minorities in many executive positions around he country and elected a black president

But beside of all of that effort the riot and looting in Ferguson looks no different than the riots Watts 1965, Cleveland in 1966 and Detroit & Newark 1967 .

If someone here has the answer you might want to send a carbon copy of your post to the federal government

[jblum315]

Just play classical music over the PA system. The crowds will vanish.

[SoccerCoach]

The leadership of the country is lacking some important ingredients, mainly "character".
Character is what makes leadership possible. People cannot respect or trust those who are lacking character. The key reason these people are popular is because they make other people who lack character feel better about themselves. Lasting leadership is grounded in character. Character produces respect. Respect produces trust. And trust motivates followers. We have inept leadership!

[TexaninVA]

When I was a young lad (1955) I remember there was severe flooding in Waterbury CT. This was because of two back-to-back hurricanes that saturated the land. This flood destroyed buildings and almost 90 people died.

What I remember is that the governor called in the National Guard and gave the following order: "If you see anyone looting, shoot to kill." I believe that put a stop to it.

Why don't we do that anymore?

Agree ... that would take care of the problem.

The looters can quickly sense hesitation and reluctance by those in authority to quell the uprising, which emboldens them further. Looking at the looters literally shooting their way into a store on TV the other night ... one volley from the police and that would have taken care of it. They can use rubber bullets for the first volley, and if that doesn't work, then real bullets will.

[golf2140]

Let me get this straight. The Chief of Police was critizied because he used armed vehiles. He was replaced by Captain Johnson who walked with the folks. That didn't work, he use armed vehicle, but that was fine. They also brought in the National Guard. Why must a certain segment riot. loot and burn propertywhen they don't like what had taken place. Thy don't let the legal system take it's course.

[kellyjam]

Funny this week on the News there were 2 instances of thugs snatching pocketbooks from 2 senior women hurting both of them. One of the women beat them off with her cane. I don't remember our President appearing on TV exclaiming that either one of them could have been his Grandmother.

[Paper1]

Just hold a Jobs fair they'll all leave

Thank you. I'm sitting by myself up here in Maine in the mist of all the bad news going on and laughing out load. You should be writing material for Don Imus.

[dbussone]

Thank you. I'm sitting by myself up here in Maine in the mist of all the bad news going on and laughing out load. You should be writing material for Don Imus.


Having been born in Maine I'm wondering whether you meant "load" or mold?

[Pointer]

I prefer to focus on the fact that most of the people are law abiding and that they organized themselves into preventing any more looting by standing guard of stores and they were successful.

I find it upsetting to read stereotyping based on assumptions rather then facts.
I think that the media plays a big part in what they focus on sometimes over the best interests of safety.

My heart always goes out to the parents who have to bury a child. There's not much that is harder to bare. To many children die in this country and around the world and a disproportionate are minorities. I think that is what is at the heart of this. I can't imagine trying to raise a child with those odds.

[Paper1]

Having been born in Maine I'm wondering whether you meant "load" or mold?

I was concerned some sharp eyed senior would pick up my load/loud spelling. Thank you for not disappointing. Where in Maine are your roots

[Bay Kid]

Take away all their "free stuff". Then they would have to get a job. Then they would be home resting to be able to go to work the next day.

[Pointer]

Take away all their "free stuff". Then they would have to get a job. Then they would be home resting to be able to go to work the next day.

The assumption that the people who are looting don't have jobs is very prejudice. Lacking in integrity would be more accurate.

[graciegirl]

I don't know why they are looting and I don't know why the victim stole something from a local store just minutes before this happened.

In fact I don't know what transpired after that to make an officer of the law shoot to kill.

I hope that we will get the whole story. I for one am still shocked and saddened about someone stealing anything. Anything.

But then I am old and very out of fashion.

[mflasch]

I just found out the reason they are not arresting any LOOTERS in Ferguson since Eric Holder's visit. He and the Justice Department have reclassified them:
They are not LOOTERS anymore,
They are UNDOCUMENTED SHOPPERS!

[buggyone]

I just found out the reason they are not arresting any LOOTERS in Ferguson since Eric Holder's visit. He and the Justice Department have reclassified them:
They are not LOOTERS anymore,
They are UNDOCUMENTED SHOPPERS!

Not funny at all.

[Hancle704]

Maybe Bill O'Reilly's comments bears watching again.


O'Reilly on America's Race Problem | CNS News (http://www.cnsnews.com/video/national/oreilly-americas-race-problem)

[janmcn]

One way to stop rioting and looting is for police officers to stop killing young black men. Brown was picked on for blocking traffic. A NY man was strangled by police for allegedly selling cigarettes.

Hopefully, the Ferguson police officer will soon be charged with homicide by the grand jury hearing this case, as was the NY police officer. Having a police badge does not give anyone a license to kill.

[graciegirl]

One way to stop rioting and looting is for police officers to stop killing young black men. Brown was picked on for blocking traffic. A NY man was strangled by police for allegedly selling cigarettes.

Hopefully, the Ferguson police officer will soon be charged with homicide by the grand jury hearing this case, as was the NY police officer. Having a police badge does not give anyone a license to kill.


I am waiting to see the rest of the story. I have a prejudice for officers of the law.

If you had to spend the rest of your life in a small room with Michael Brown or this police officer, not knowing any more than we do right now, WHO would you choose if you were forced to choose? Will you be honest, or politically correct?

[golf2140]

Gracie for Mayor !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Polar Bear]

...Hopefully, the Ferguson police officer will soon be charged with homicide...

How can you possibly say that without actually KNOWING THE FACTS of what happened? I just don't get it.

[TNLAKEPANDA]

I am waiting to see the rest of the story. I have a prejudice for officers of the law.

If you had to spend the rest of your life in a small room with Michael Brown or this police officer, not knowing any more than we do right now, WHO would you choose if you were forced to choose? Will you be honest, or politically correct?

Let me think about that... Ok not Michael Brown~

[Patty55]

Maybe Bill O'Reilly's comments bears watching again.


O'Reilly on America's Race Problem | CNS News (http://www.cnsnews.com/video/national/oreilly-americas-race-problem)

OMG, I can't believe I agree with Bill O'Reilly.

I've often said that a lot of today's problems stem from the breakdown of the family, that there are too many absent fathers and exhausted overwhelmed mothers. There are too many "reality" shows where the people speak so poorly they need subtitles. Too much is expected of the school system, values should be taught at home, not the classroom.

Where are the parents of the rioters and looters? We never had such things going on while growing up but I sure know if I ever even thought about such a thing I'd see my Mothers pink hair rollers coming through the crowd and beg the police to shoot me.

Yep, I agree with O'Reilly, does this mean I have to burn my ACLU card?

[mflasch]

One way to stop rioting and looting is for police officers to stop killing young black men. Brown was picked on for blocking traffic. A NY man was strangled by police for allegedly selling cigarettes.

Hopefully, the Ferguson police officer will soon be charged with homicide by the grand jury hearing this case, as was the NY police officer. Having a police badge does not give anyone a license to kill.

Let's just reiterate one more time the fundamental problem with this incident and the majority of like incidents. If the "victim" simply complied with the police officer's request, there would have been no incident. Why. oh why, is that so hard for people to understand. Had this "gentle giant" simply got out of the street and walked on the sidewalk like normal people do, things would have ended there.
And I am tired of him being referred to as a "child." This was a 6'4', 290 lb man who obviously had no regard for the law.

[Hancle704]

For some folks (like the Revs. Sharpton and Jackson), investigations to uncover the facts are not needed and don't matter.

[B767drvr]

Having a police badge does not give anyone a license to kill.

Of course it does. "To serve and to protect" means exactly that. In the appropriate circumstance, the officer's badge not only "gives" him that license, it DEMANDS he use his weapon. Think about this for a moment if this doesn't make sense to you.

[Rags123]

One way to stop rioting and looting is for police officers to stop killing young black men. Brown was picked on for blocking traffic. A NY man was strangled by police for allegedly selling cigarettes.

Hopefully, the Ferguson police officer will soon be charged with homicide by the grand jury hearing this case, as was the NY police officer. Having a police badge does not give anyone a license to kill.

You call a police officer a "killer" , yet you know NOTHING Unless of course you have the information that nobody else has.

A police officer was trying to enforce the law....isn't that what we want....
and was resisted. The policeman did not arbitrarily choose this man...he was violating the law and HE MADE THE DECISION HE WAS ABOVE THE LAW

No matter what law....it is the law.

Whether the shooting was justified or not is subject to all kinds of hearings, which are ongoing.......YET

A man is being called a killer. Now please tell me which is better.....with no facts call someone a killer, OR have a police force attempt to enforce our laws ?

Would really be interested in a response, especially the grounds for calling a man a KILLER.

If there is any response to my question, could you always say whether you would call this man a killer if he were black ? Just wondering how race related such a terrible charge might be.. Thanks

[buggyone]

Let me think about that... Ok not Michael Brown~

People should check sources before posting.

Check the photo posted and you will find out a Kansas City policeman falsely posted a picture of an Oregon murder suspect as being Michael Brown.

I would think the poster should apologize to the forum.

[Rags123]

People should check sources before posting.

Check the photo posted and you will find out a Kansas City policeman falsely posted a picture of an Oregon murder suspect as being Michael Brown.

I would think the poster should apologize to the forum.

While I think the posting of the picture is way out of line, but if everyone who posts false unverifiable information on here has to make a public apology...wow...just saying

[graciegirl]

People should check sources before posting.

Check the photo posted and you will find out a Kansas City policeman falsely posted a picture of an Oregon murder suspect as being Michael Brown.

I would think the poster should apologize to the forum. Is this one of Michael Brown, just prior to being killed?


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/15/video-undefined-208DF57F00000578-437_636x358.jpg

[buggyone]

[QUOTE=graciegirl;927518]Is this one of Michael Brown, just prior to being killed?

It is supposed to be a still shot of Brown taken from the convenience store where he and a friend stole some cigars and shoved the owner.

Back in the Trayvon Martin incident, false thug-like pictures of him were posted on his Facebook page, too.

[Chi-Town]

Is this one of Michael Brown, just prior to being killed?


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/15/video-undefined-208DF57F00000578-437_636x358.jpg
What's your point?

[buggyone]

While I think the posting of the picture is way out of line, but if everyone who posts false unverifiable information on here has to make a public apology...wow...just saying

But this is easy to verify as being a false picture. I am sure you have verified my post. I would be disappointed otherwise!

[janmcn]

One way to stop rioting and looting is for police officers to stop killing young black men. Brown was picked on for blocking traffic. A NY man was strangled by police for allegedly selling cigarettes.

Hopefully, the Ferguson police officer will soon be charged with homicide by the grand jury hearing this case, as was the NY police officer. Having a police badge does not give anyone a license to kill.

How can you possibly say that without actually KNOWING THE FACTS of what happened? I just don't get it.


Hopefully is an editorial comment based on the information leaked from the three autopsy reports. Only the 12 member St Louis grand jury will have all the evidence and facts, and they will be the ones making the decision on whether to charge the officer with homicide.

[Rags123]

What's your point?


For me, the point would be that THIS picture which is accurate is more harmful to the young man than the one that was posted incorrectly, BY FAR

[Rags123]

Hopefully is an editorial comment based on the information leaked from the three autopsy reports. Only the 12 member St Louis grand jury will have all the evidence and facts, and they will be the ones making the decision on whether to charge the officer with homicide.

So you "hope" he is indicted and your comments are clearly meant to call him a killer.

My two questions remain......on WHAT information do you base your accusation..ie., what do you know that nobody else does ?

And two, if the police officer were black would you also jump to this same conclusion. Again, this question is simply to determine if your accusation is based soley on race !

Thanks again

[Rags123]

But this is easy to verify as being a false picture. I am sure you have verified my post. I would be disappointed otherwise!

Actually, I have found that most inaccurate things posted on here are easy to identify. I try to use links to validate things I say...if not, I post them as my opinion.

If we insist all who post untrue things and try to pass them off as true make an apology here...well, seems to me there may be quite a backlog.

I find true, investigated things to be much more fascinating that those that are made up !! PERHAPS not as digestable to our bias palette BUT much more interesting.

[Chi-Town]

For me, the point would be that THIS picture which is accurate is more harmful to the young man than the one that was posted incorrectly, BY FAR
For me, the point would be that a bullet to the head is more harmful to the young man, BY FAR.

[tomwed]

'That's how we're going to move forward together, by trying to unite each other and understand each other and not simply divide ourselves from one another,' Obama told reporters at the White House.

Do you agree?
I do.

[janmcn]

One way to stop rioting and looting is for police officers to stop killing young black men. Brown was picked on for blocking traffic. A NY man was strangled by police for allegedly selling cigarettes.

Hopefully, the Ferguson police officer will soon be charged with homicide by the grand jury hearing this case, as was the NY police officer. Having a police badge does not give anyone a license to kill.

Of course it does. "To serve and to protect" means exactly that. In the appropriate circumstance, the officer's badge not only "gives" him that license, it DEMANDS he use his weapon. Think about this for a moment if this doesn't make sense to you.


The key words here are 'appropriate circumstance'. When did it become okay to strangle someone for selling cigarettes on the street? When did it become okay to shoot someone five or six times for blocking traffic?

Fortunately, the entire NY incident was caught on tape, and that police officer has already been charged with homicide.

The St Louis grand jury will have all the evidence and facts before making their decision on whether to charge the Ferguson police officer.

IMO the strongest evidence in the Ferguson case will be the three autopsy reports which contain irrefutable evidence of the location of the gunshot wounds and the trajectory of the bullets.

[Rags123]

For me, the point would be that a bullet to the head is more harmful to the young man, BY FAR.

I do not believe there is a single person in the world who does not agree with you.

Problem is that, at least in my opinion, calling the young police officer a killer knowing only the color of his skin and the young mans skin is a bit out of line.

Even the implication is a bit offensive, don't you think ? I mean to call the officer a killer because his skin is white and the victims skin is black with no other facts is a bit racist, wouldn't you think ?

[Chi-Town]

I do not believe there is a single person in the world who does not agree with you.

Problem is that, at least in my opinion, calling the young police officer a killer knowing only the color of his skin and the young mans skin is a bit out of line.

Even the implication is a bit offensive, don't you think ? I mean to call the officer a killer because his skin is white and the victims skin is black with no other facts is a bit racist, wouldn't you think ?

I am waiting just like the rest of us for the answers. I am not sure if it's racially motivated and not calling anyone a killer. In fact, all this speculation is getting a little stale, don't you agree?

[graciegirl]

The key words here are 'appropriate circumstance'. When did it become okay to strangle someone for selling cigarettes on the street? When did it become okay to shoot someone five or six times for blocking traffic?

Fortunately, the entire NY incident was caught on tape, and that police officer has already been charged with homicide.

The St Louis grand jury will have all the evidence and facts before making their decision on whether to charge the Ferguson police officer.

IMO the strongest evidence in the Ferguson case will be the three autopsy reports which contain irrefutable evidence of the location of the gunshot wounds and the trajectory of the bullets.


Do I remember this correctly that he was asphyxiated, not strangled. Thinking that a number of people laid on him in order to subdue him and caused him to be unable to breathe, rather than to attempt to strangle him around the neck in order to kill him?

Just thought it was so sad. He didn't deserve to die for doing something illegal, just to be arrested.

And the same with Michael Brown. He should have been arrested. But when a person resists arrest, then terrible things can happen, no matter what color you are.

[Rags123]

Do I remember this correctly that he was asphyxiated, not strangled. Thinking that a number of people laid on him in order to subdue him and caused him to be unable to breathe, rather than to attempt to strangle him around the neck in order to kill him?

Just thought it was so sad. He didn't deserve to die for doing something illegal, just to be arrested.

And the same with Michael Brown. He should have been arrested. But when a person resists arrest, then terrible things can happen, no matter what color you are.

This entire thing is a shame.

If you violate the law, you will be confronted by the police.. That is their job and a very important job. Once they confront you, either you decide to resist of not. Once you resist, you put your self in another catagory and are asking that police officer to decide how to make you stop resisting. These men are not simply shot down in the street as many would like you to believe. They have put THEMSELVES in harms way.

I boil when I hear people say how men are shot down in the steet by police as if they were simply walking down the street, did nothing...an officer just came across them and decided they should be shot. That is the picture being drawn by so many and is not true.

There are mistakes made by cops...and they should be investigated and handled appropriately but to call a young man a killer is simply non acceptable.

In Utah on August 11, a young white man was shot and killed by a black officer in Salt Lake City. In this case the white man was unarmed and was with two other men. HE was the ONLY one who did not comply with Police orders, but I doubt if you all heard about this.

It is always a shame....but you know what.....if you have violated a law or are in a situation where police have been called, as in Utah, then behave and follow orders..the police do not read minds.

Update: Relatives say man shot, killed by police was not armed | fox13now.com (http://fox13now.com/2014/08/11/breaking-man-dead-after-officer-involved-shooting-in-s-salt-lake-police-say/)

Black Cop Kills Unarmed White Youth ? Media and Feds Silent (http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/18965-black-cop-kills-unarmed-white-youth-media-and-feds-silent)

[buggyone]

Seems that selling untaxed cigarettes or walking in the street are now capitol offenses.

Sure, both guys had attitude with the police but is that cause for police to shoot 6 times ending with a shot to the top of the head or to have a choke hold placed for long enough to kill? Neither incident should have happened. At least one cop is charged - maybe a second one soon!

If a cop says to move out of the street, do it. If the person does not move, gives attitude, is it proper to try and slap on cuffs? No. It is no big deal. The cop should have let it go. The cop just wanted to show he was as tough. Well, the cop's life changed in a moment forever - just like Zimmerman's did - and not for the better.

[Rags123]

Seems that selling untaxed cigarettes or walking in the street are now capitol offenses.

Sure, both guys had attitude with the police but is that cause for police to shoot 6 times ending with a shot to the top of the head or to have a choke hold placed for long enough to kill? Neither incident should have happened. At least one cop is charged - maybe a second one soon!

If a cop says to move out of the street, do it. If the person does not move, gives attitude, is it proper to try and slap on cuffs? No. It is no big deal. The cop should have let it go. The cop just wanted to show he was as tough. Well, the cop's life changed in a moment forever - just like Zimmerman's did - and not for the better.

WOW, another who has facts that nobody else has..you guys should get hold of those investigating. Thankfully, they will not rely on media for trial.

If you have contact with police, you follow instructions... That simple.

I, for one,want laws enforced...I, for me,do not want anyone challenging police or punching them, etc.

These people are not being shot by police on a willy billy agenda...they are in a confrontation which if you listen and allow the policeman to judge the situation is a daily and non reported item

As I posted earlier..a white kid got killed by a black cop in Utah...I seems that is fine with all you folks...seems race is the name of the game

[mflasch]

Seems that selling untaxed cigarettes or walking in the street are now capitol offenses.

Sure, both guys had attitude with the police but is that cause for police to shoot 6 times ending with a shot to the top of the head or to have a choke hold placed for long enough to kill? Neither incident should have happened. At least one cop is charged - maybe a second one soon!

If a cop says to move out of the street, do it. If the person does not move, gives attitude, is it proper to try and slap on cuffs? No. It is no big deal. The cop should have let it go. The cop just wanted to show he was as tough. Well, the cop's life changed in a moment forever - just like Zimmerman's did - and not for the better.

Really???? We must have gotten different information. Didn't this guy go after the cop while the cop was still in his car? Didn't this guy "bullrush" the cop when the cop told him to freeze? What would you do after you have been hit in the face and then this 6'4", 290 lb giant comes running at you intent to do more physical harm.
I sound like a busted record, but, again, if both of these idiots would have just complied with the cops instructions, they would be alive today.

[buggyone]

Really???? We must have gotten different information. Didn't this guy go after the cop while the cop was still in his car? Didn't this guy "bullrush" the cop when the cop told him to freeze? What would you do after you have been hit in the face and then this 6'4", 290 lb giant comes running at you intent to do more physical harm.
I sound like a busted record, but, again, if both of these idiots would have just complied with the cops instructions, they would be alive today.

I do not understand who you mean by "both of these idiots would have complied with the cops instructions, they would both be alive today"?

As to the first part, I have no idea any more than what has been reported of what actually happened. I have never heard those allegations. Well, maybe that is only one network that is not watched at my house.

[DeanFL]

I just googled about the police killing (Dillon Taylor) in Utah 2 days after the Mike Brown shooting. I must say - my blood is boiling. Where is the national media /Live Media feeds/protests/riots/national guard/"Group Leaders"/DC Attny Gen/etc...Covering THAT?

Oh wait - the racial mix was wrong. Nothing to see or report here. move along.

Even though Taylor was unarmed, did not attack or threaten the officers, and was innocent of anything. No news because he was white - and oh yeah the Officer was black. Only stating this because if the opposite was the case - guess who would have been on planes to Utah to chase that one.
But nope, move along.

And while I'm at it - I was personally offended when that analyst (or such) made the comment on the Golf Channel special about The Villages - and stated something like... "self segregation" by the TV residents (apparently because the white pop is such a high %). Another blood boiler here. Sure, like THAT'S why we invested much of our savings into our new home in TV. grrrr.

OK bedtime here... gotta get the BP down to normal....

[justjim]

From what I hear, Mike Brown not only was a thief but assaulted and intimidated the store clerk and then allegedly punched the Police Officer and tried to Grab his weapon.

It is unfortunate Michael Brown's behavior ended in such a tragedy, however, it's wrong for people to call Officer Wilson a murderer without knowing all the facts.

The looters and arsonist should be found and arrested. Bottom line, nobody should be judged guilty by the media without evidence and complete investigation.

[Bay Kid]

The assumption that the people who are looting don't have jobs is very prejudice. Lacking in integrity would be more accurate.

I am sorry if you think I am prejudice. Maybe I am. I look at the "protestors" and I doubt you will find 10% that work. They protest without knowing the facts, destroying their own neighborhoods and neighbors property. That young man might still be alive if his mother and father had taught him to respect others, just like most of these protestors.

So I guess I am prejudice.

[rubicon]

OMG, I can't believe I agree with Bill O'Reilly.

I've often said that a lot of today's problems stem from the breakdown of the family, that there are too many absent fathers and exhausted overwhelmed mothers. There are too many "reality" shows where the people speak so poorly they need subtitles. Too much is expected of the school system, values should be taught at home, not the classroom.

Where are the parents of the rioters and looters? We never had such things going on while growing up but I sure know if I ever even thought about such a thing I'd see my Mothers pink hair rollers coming through the crowd and beg the police to shoot me.

Yep, I agree with O'Reilly, does this mean I have to burn my ACLU card?

You think

[rubicon]

Why are blacks the only ones with Sharptonites assuming one man leadership speaking on behalf for the entire black community instigating and agitating for protests which end up as riots?

Oops Muslim inmans speak for muslims and come to think of it also riot if the Koran is dropped on the floor or offended by a cartoon

Miscarriage of justice occurs but the majority of Americans abide by rule of law.

The experts can dissect the reasons til the cow come home but it won't and can't legitimize such conduct.

I never thought I would disagree with Mona Charen but her column today suggesting that military equipment not be given to police in my mind is wrong.

America is less safe now than ever and the threat of home grown terrorist a reality. Additionally people as a whole in the USA are less inclined to act responsibly and are more in your face confrontations with LOE.

Federal government is jumping on the band wagon to reexamine sale of military equipment to police their training etc. Think of the hypocrisy. We arm or leave military equipment all around the world that ends up in terrorist hands and our government is focused on Ferguson.

This continuation of de-militarizing our military and damaging the motivation of those oath keepers police military who protect us domestically and foreign countries and our over reaction to NSA spying is leaving us vulnerable to our enemies. Too many people working in government do not understand the world in which we live

gimme a break

[Rags123]

Why are blacks the only ones with Sharptonites assuming one man leadership speaking on behalf for the entire black community instigating and agitating for protests which end up as riots?

Oops Muslim inmans speak for muslims and come to think of it also riot if the Koran is dropped on the floor or offended by a cartoon

Miscarriage of justice occurs but the majority of Americans abide by rule of law.

The experts can dissect the reasons til the cow come home but it won't and can't legitimize such conduct.

I never thought I would disagree with Mona Charen but her column today suggesting that military equipment not be given to police in my mind is wrong.

America is less safe now than ever and the threat of home grown terrorist a reality. Additionally people as a whole in the USA are less inclined to act responsibly and are more in your face confrontations with LOE.

Federal government is jumping on the band wagon to reexamine sale of military equipment to police their training etc. Think of the hypocrisy. We arm or leave military equipment all around the world that ends up in terrorist hands and our government is focused on Ferguson.

This continuation of de-militarizing our military and damaging the motivation of those oath keepers police military who protect us domestically and foreign countries and our over reaction to NSA spying is leaving us vulnerable to our enemies. Too many people working in government do not understand the world in which we live

gimme a break

The folks who last evening were on here sympathizing with the deaths of kin of terrorists, who are in the eye of violence because of what their leaders do and profess, and blatantly calling a police officer a killer, ignoring all information except what they, for some reason, want to accept, ignoring also that the young man who died put himself in danger by refusing to heed warnings, and violating the law....

In the wake of anything terrible happening to this country by the hand of terrorists or criminals....those posters will be on here screaming about how the police, etc should have known and should have acted.

We are a country of laws, except in certain cases like our borders, and that fact is what separates us from the pack.

Those who enjoy "stirring the pot" or "flaming" need to understand if that is your "thing" do it on some other subject, unless you truely sympathize with terrorism and not abiding by the law, then I suppose you are being true to yourself.

[snowbird22154]

How can you possibly say that without actually KNOWING THE FACTS of what happened? I just don't get it.

I agree with you 110% as no one WAITS till all the "facts" are in but instead condemns a man and burns a town down "just because"

There's too many, far too many the make their own judgments BEFORE knowing what the true facts are !! :cus:

[snowbird22154]

Let's just reiterate one more time the fundamental problem with this incident and the majority of like incidents. If the "victim" simply complied with the police officer's request, there would have been no incident. Why. oh why, is that so hard for people to understand. Had this "gentle giant" simply got out of the street and walked on the sidewalk like normal people do, things would have ended there.
And I am tired of him being referred to as a "child." This was a 6'4', 290 lb man who obviously had no regard for the law.


-------- My sentiments EXACTLY! :beer3: ----------

[janmcn]

Is this one of Michael Brown, just prior to being killed?


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/15/video-undefined-208DF57F00000578-437_636x358.jpg

Really???? We must have gotten different information. Didn't this guy go after the cop while the cop was still in his car? Didn't this guy "bullrush" the cop when the cop told him to freeze? What would you do after you have been hit in the face and then this 6'4", 290 lb giant comes running at you intent to do more physical harm.
I sound like a busted record, but, again, if both of these idiots would have just complied with the cops instructions, they would be alive today.


Does this photo, reportedly of Michael Brown, really look like a 6'4" 290 lb giant? If so, the man next to him must be nine feet tall.

If that is Brown in the photo, he looks like he is about 5'5". It will be interesting to hear the height and weight of the Ferguson cop.

[NoMoSno]

Does this photo, reportedly of Michael Brown, really look like a 6'4" 290 lb giant? If so, the man next to him must be nine feet tall.

If that is Brown in the photo, he looks like he is about 5'5". It will be interesting to hear the height and weight of the Ferguson cop.

Not sure who you are looking at.
Brown is the guy in the middle.
The one threatening the store clerk.

[manaboutown]

Wikipedia reports Michael Brown as 6' 4" tall and 292 pounds. He is the very large individual in the above photo roughing up the convenience store clerk during a strong arm robbery. Nice guy, no???

Officer Wilson looks much smaller than Brown from the photos I have seen of him, but not as small as the clerk Brown had roughed up. Although all of the evidence is not yet in it seems that at this point Brown attacked Wilson and severely beat him, hitting him in the eye hard enough to fracture his optical orbital bone (not sure of nomenclature) prior to Wilson shooting him.

[janmcn]

Wikipedia reports Brown as 6' 4" tall and 292 pounds. He is the very large individual in the above photo roughing up the convenience store clerk during a strong arm robbery. Nice guy, no???

Officer Wilson looks much smaller than Brown from the photos I have seen of him, but not as small as the clerk Brown had roughed up. Although all of the evidence is not yet in it seems that at this point Brown attacked Wilson and beat him, hitting him in the eye hard enough to fracture his optical orbital bone (not sure of nomenclature) prior to Wilson shooting him.

Sorry, I thought Brown was the little guy. Regardless of size, there is still no reason to shoot to kill. If Wilson was a good shot, he could have shot to injure.

I agree, we must wait until the St Louis grand jury hears all the evidence and makes a decision on whether to charge the cop with homicide.

[manaboutown]

Sorry, I thought Brown was the little guy. Regardless of size, there is still no reason to shoot to kill. If Wilson was a good shot, he could have shot to injure.

I agree, we must wait until the St Louis grand jury hears all the evidence and makes a decision on whether to charge the cop with homicide.

As I understand it a police officer in Missouri has the right to use lethal force when in danger of serious bodily injury or death. Essentially he or she has the right of self defense. It seems to me that if Officer Wilson was under attack by Brown, especially having already been severely being beaten by Brown, Officer Wilson needed to shoot to kill to keep himself from being further grievously injured or even beaten to death.

After receiving such a terrible eye injury at Brown's hands I am relieved that Officer Wilson could see well enough and function sufficiently to successfully shoot Brown at all.

[TexaninVA]

Sorry, I thought Brown was the little guy. Regardless of size, there is still no reason to shoot to kill. If Wilson was a good shot, he could have shot to injure.

I agree, we must wait until the St Louis grand jury hears all the evidence and makes a decision on whether to charge the cop with homicide.

Uh, when some one say the cop should "shoot to injure" it is clear they do not know what they are talking about nor how the police departments operate in the real world.

I certainly agree we need to wait before charging the cop (or not charging etc). Too bad the Missouri Governor doesn't seem to agree with this.

[TexaninVA]

... If a cop says to move out of the street, do it. If the person does not move, gives attitude, is it proper to try and slap on cuffs? No. It is no big deal. The cop should have let it go. The cop just wanted to show he was as tough. ...

I suggest we each put ourselves in the cop's shoes momentarily, and given that we see a guy 6'4" 290lbs who turned around and charged at us head down, I wonder how many would then shoot (to kill) vs "just letting it go?"

Talk about a thankless, no-win job with a never ending supply of Monday morning quarterbacking ...

[buggyone]

I suggest we each put ourselves in the cop's shoes momentarily, and given that we see a guy 6'4" 290lbs who turned around and charged at us head down, I wonder how many would then shoot (to kill) vs "just letting it go?"

Talk about a thankless, no-win job with a never ending supply of Monday morning quarterbacking ...

...and we know for a fact that policeman Wilson was charged head down by Brown? It has been made pretty clear that the policeman did not have the broken eye socket as earlier stated.

Anyhow, it is a done deed.

Guilty of a crime or bravely doing his duty - I cannot say with certainty. Unfortunately, policeman Wilson's life changed forever with that shot. There is no going back. I feel bad for him as I do for Brown's parents.

[Kahuna32162]

Why is this thread even allowed here? The OP suggested that a shoot to kill environment is the answer to the issue.

[janmcn]

Why is this thread even allowed here? The OP suggested that a shoot to kill environment is the answer to the issue.


The OP was reminiscing about an incident that happened almost 60 years ago, IMO. Perhaps times and tactics have changed since then.

If Officer Wilson is charged with homicide, his union will make sure that he is well represented, and the police department will probably pay his legal fees.

[graciegirl]

The OP was reminiscing about an incident that happened almost 60 years ago, IMO. Perhaps times and tactics have changed since then.

If Officer Wilson is charged with homicide, his union will make sure that he is well represented, and the police department will probably pay his legal fees.


And he will never be safe again.

[janmcn]

And he will never be safe again.


The same was said about George Zimmerman how many years ago, and as far as we know he's still kicking.

[tomwed]

The OP was reminiscing about an incident that happened almost 60 years ago, IMO. Perhaps times and tactics have changed since then.

If Officer Wilson is charged with homicide, his union will make sure that he is well represented, and the police department will probably pay his legal fees.


"A crowd-funding page created for Wilson raised $235,010 from 5,902 people before organizers stopped accepting donations Friday after surpassing their goal of $100,000 in four days. The group then opened a new fundraising page, which already has more than $104,000."

USA Today
5:49 a.m. EDT August 24, 2014

[MarkinMd]

I recently retired as a police sgt with a large police agency. I cant say if the shooting was justified or not as I wasn't there. My hope is the truth comes out regardless of politics or media coverage.
As for shooting to injure and not to kill is something for the movies. As soon as you draw your gun and pull the trigger you are going to be judged as to your justification to use deadly force. I was always trained to "shoot to stop", Unfortunately the "shoot to stop zone" is the same as the kill zone. I feel fortunate that I never had to go through a shooting death investigation.
Again, my main point is simple, find the truth and go from that point on. I only hope that the politicians don't tarnish the investigation either way.

[graciegirl]

"A crowd-funding page created for Wilson raised $235,010 from 5,902 people before organizers stopped accepting donations Friday after surpassing their goal of $100,000 in four days. The group then opened a new fundraising page, which already has more than $104,000."

USA Today
5:49 a.m. EDT August 24, 2014



It is such a different situation than that of George Zimmerman. This was an officer on duty. And the victim was photographed robbing a store just minutes before he was shot.

Did anyone watch the video tape of the innocent woman shot by police in downtown Orlando? Shots were fired in rapid succession. I know nothing about guns but maybe that is what happened in the Furgeson shooting. Maybe that is what semi automatic means. Does anyone know?

[MarkinMd]

I'm not sure what type gun was used but with a semi-automatic gun you can fire six rounds in under two seconds.

[Happydaz]

Just play classical music over the PA system. The crowds will vanish.

So true!

I read an article a few years ago that they cleared teenagers out of a park by playing classical music. This music is foreign to many people and they do not like the complicated scores and lack of guitars.

[tomwed]

I recently retired as a police sgt with a large police agency. I cant say if the shooting was justified or not as I wasn't there. My hope is the truth comes out regardless of politics or media coverage. and go from that point on. I only hope that the politicians don't tarnish the investigation either way.

Thank-you for being a police officer and giving good advice. You're still serving and protecting.

[B767drvr]

[QUOTE Does this photo, reportedly of Michael Brown, really look like a 6'4" 290 lb giant? If so, the man next to him must be nine feet tall.

If that is Brown in the photo, he looks like he is about 5'5". It will be interesting to hear the height and weight of the Ferguson cop.[/QUOTE]

Something smells awfully fishy. An individual (who shall remain nameless) has been on this thread claiming the white police officer killed the black Mr. Brown simply for "walking in the street", yet when shown a photograph of Mr. Brown, Mr or Mrs Nameless picked a small caucasian-looking man as the victim completely overlooking the HUGE black guy in the center of the picture assaulting the store keeper? :ohdear:

[Rags123]

This has nothing to do with the incident that occured, but it has been mentioned on here as well as totally beat to death on the networks about the stark difference in the community and the police force as relates to race.

I decided to do a bit of looking into that....and was lucky as the St Louis Newspaper already did a little bit of research....a few interesting parts of their article..

"About 67 percent of Ferguson’s residents are African-American, but only 7 percent of the city’s commissioned police officers are black.

That lopsided representation, brought to light after a black teen was killed by a white police officer two weeks ago, has city leaders pledging to try harder to improve race relations.

The disparity is common among communities in St. Louis County with significant black populations. Many police departments do not reflect the communities they serve"

"Many reasons for the disparity are given, including difficulty in recruiting black police officers; the lack of interest in policing by minorities; and the changing demographics in North County over the past two decades."

And this fact that the networks do not talk about....I actually had the impression that this problem was years and years and decades old....

"From 1990 to 2010, Ferguson’s African-American population rose by more than 150 percent."

St. Louis County police forces often don't reflect communities : News (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/st-louis-county-police-forces-often-don-t-reflect-communities/article_a29dc3e4-91bb-5cf5-9b30-9ebb95c5e1c6.html)

Just sharing

[golf2140]

People, do you really think that a police office white or black would shoot someone in broad daylight if he / she didn't feel that they were in the fight of their life. Also what gives the folks who protest the right to burn and loot. Did anyone notice that three police officers were killed today? Where are our political leaders. I'm sorry they were white !!!!

[Rags123]

[QUOTE Does this photo, reportedly of Michael Brown, really look like a 6'4" 290 lb giant? If so, the man next to him must be nine feet tall.

If that is Brown in the photo, he looks like he is about 5'5". It will be interesting to hear the height and weight of the Ferguson cop.

Something smells awfully fishy. An individual (who shall remain nameless) has been on this thread claiming the white police officer killed the black Mr. Brown simply for "walking in the street", yet when shown a photograph of Mr. Brown, Mr or Mrs Nameless picked a small caucasian-looking man as the victim completely overlooking the HUGE black guy in the center of the picture assaulting the store keeper? :ohdear:[/QUOTE]


There have been a few "fishy" comments on this thread and another. Got to remember we have folks who just like to "play" and stir the pot as much as possible....facts do not apply, just stir the pot.

I think just waiting for the facts and understanding what has happened and why in context is important. As I mentioned earlier a young unarmed white man was killed by a black policeman in Salt Lake City Utah on the same day as this incident. There have been protests about the death but not much about race at all.

[Rags123]

People, do you really think that a police office white or black would shoot someone in broad daylight if he / she didn't feel that they were in the fight of their life. Also what gives the folks who protest the right to burn and loot. Did anyone notice that three police officers were killed today? Where are our political leaders. I'm sorry they were white !!!!

There is a cottage industry that is in existence only to be the centerpiece of whatever is happening.


If that industry is disrupted, Sharpton, Jackson, Crump might be out of work or have their influence curtailed.

[blueash]

And he will never be safe again.

You imply that some black person, or "they" as billethkid, karostay, bay kid, and others call them, will exact some revenge for Brown's death. Perhaps you will present us with one or several cases where the "theys" of our nation have perpetrated a murder of white policeman who had been either cleared or never charged. On the other hand of course there are hundreds or thousands of 20th century deaths of minorities by white mobs, or the KKK without trial to avenge such offenses as talking to a white woman. Those who are born with the benefit of white skin cannot begin to understand how "they" are still routinely treated differently by police than you would be. Driving while black, walking while black, shopping while black..... If there is less respect for cops, that lack of respect may have a big basis in life experience. That the OP suggests the way to take care of riots is to just shoot people sounds like a solution that the worst totalitarian governments would certainly endorse. I am not able to verify his memory of any such shoot to kill order in any online source
Flood Ravages Whole State Causing Many Deaths, Millions In Damage - Courant.com (http://www.courant.com/hc-55flood-aug20a1-story,0,1287757,full.story)

Frankly the anti-minority postings of way too many on this forum is sickening.. play classical music, hand out job applications, take away their free stuff, undocumented shoppers, posting random photos of black people with guns as they fit your stereotype, shameful, and the reason why black Americans don't trust old white guys to be fair to them. Maybe the next generation will have less bigotry, prejudice, and animus.

[B767drvr]

You imply that some black person, or "they" as billethkid, karostay, bay kid, and others call them, will exact some revenge for Brown's death. Perhaps you will present us with one or several cases where the "theys" of our nation have perpetrated a murder of white policeman who had been either cleared or never charged. On the other hand of course there are hundreds or thousands of 20th century deaths of minorities by white mobs, or the KKK without trial to avenge such offenses as talking to a white woman. Those who are born with the benefit of white skin cannot begin to understand how "they" are still routinely treated differently by police than you would be. Driving while black, walking while black, shopping while black..... If there is less respect for cops, that lack of respect may have a big basis in life experience. That the OP suggests the way to take care of riots is to just shoot people sounds like a solution that the worst totalitarian governments would certainly endorse. I am not able to verify his memory of any such shoot to kill order in any online source
Flood Ravages Whole State Causing Many Deaths, Millions In Damage - Courant.com (http://www.courant.com/hc-55flood-aug20a1-story,0,1287757,full.story)

Frankly the anti-minority postings of way too many on this forum is sickening.. play classical music, hand out job applications, take away their free stuff, undocumented shoppers, posting random photos of black people with guns as they fit your stereotype, shameful, and the reason why black Americans don't trust old white guys to be fair to them. Maybe the next generation will have less bigotry, prejudice, and animus.

Before you fall off your high horse… let me help you down with a step stool.

Genocide Watch (http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html)

(For those that don't click… it's the CURRENT genocide of whites by blacks in South Africa.)

[Chi-Town]

Just finished watching the final episode of True Blood. And just like the end of the series, this thread needs to meet the True Death.

[TexaninVA]

You imply that some black person, or "they" as billethkid, karostay, bay kid, and others call them, will exact some revenge for Brown's death. Perhaps you will present us with one or several cases where the "theys" of our nation have perpetrated a murder of white policeman who had been either cleared or never charged. On the other hand of course there are hundreds or thousands of 20th century deaths of minorities by white mobs, or the KKK without trial to avenge such offenses as talking to a white woman. Those who are born with the benefit of white skin cannot begin to understand how "they" are still routinely treated differently by police than you would be. Driving while black, walking while black, shopping while black..... If there is less respect for cops, that lack of respect may have a big basis in life experience. That the OP suggests the way to take care of riots is to just shoot people sounds like a solution that the worst totalitarian governments would certainly endorse. I am not able to verify his memory of any such shoot to kill order in any online source
Flood Ravages Whole State Causing Many Deaths, Millions In Damage - Courant.com (http://www.courant.com/hc-55flood-aug20a1-story,0,1287757,full.story)

Frankly the anti-minority postings of way too many on this forum is sickening.. play classical music, hand out job applications, take away their free stuff, undocumented shoppers, posting random photos of black people with guns as they fit your stereotype, shameful, and the reason why black Americans don't trust old white guys to be fair to them. Maybe the next generation will have less bigotry, prejudice, and animus.

You know what, let's all be totally honest for a change. What's truly sickening to me is people is who refuse to state the obvious for fear of social condemnation. To wit, it's generally not a race issue but a CLASS issue. No one cares anymore about a person's race if they are middle class in culture and share a common value set.

On the other hand, all one has to do is look at the TV footage on any network and see the rioters in action, and the underclass they come from. No one with any brains or sense of civilized order likes it. These individuals have violated the law, and in some cases used firearms. It needs to be quelled not understood.

in addition, after a half century of social engineering, it's obvious the situation has gotten worse not better for the urban underclass. I challenge anyone to deny that.

The solution is obvious ... have a Mommy and Daddy raise a family, teach the children mainstream religious values (Judeo-Christian), be sure to include the Protestant work ethic and the resultant society usually works pretty well. That's why all the illegals of the world are trying to sneak into America -- it works!

Try to douse the guilt and white privilege ideology, and just look at the world realistically and help fix it.

[Rags123]

you imply that some black person, or "they" as billethkid, karostay, bay kid, and others call them, will exact some revenge for brown's death. Perhaps you will present us with one or several cases where the "theys" of our nation have perpetrated a murder of white policeman who had been either cleared or never charged. On the other hand of course there are hundreds or thousands of 20th century deaths of minorities by white mobs, or the kkk without trial to avenge such offenses as talking to a white woman. Those who are born with the benefit of white skin cannot begin to understand how "they" are still routinely treated differently by police than you would be. Driving while black, walking while black, shopping while black..... If there is less respect for cops, that lack of respect may have a big basis in life experience. That the op suggests the way to take care of riots is to just shoot people sounds like a solution that the worst totalitarian governments would certainly endorse. I am not able to verify his memory of any such shoot to kill order in any online source
flood ravages whole state causing many deaths, millions in damage - courant.com (http://www.courant.com/hc-55flood-aug20a1-story,0,1287757,full.story)

frankly the anti-minority postings of way too many on this forum is sickening.. Play classical music, hand out job applications, take away their free stuff, undocumented shoppers, posting random photos of black people with guns as they fit your stereotype, shameful, and the reason why black americans don't trust old white guys to be fair to them. Maybe the next generation will have less bigotry, prejudice, and animus.


no looting and rioting with weapons. =. No thread

[graciegirl]

Quote, taken from entire post of Blueash;
Frankly the anti-minority postings of way too many on this forum is sickening.. play classical music, hand out job applications, take away their free stuff, undocumented shoppers, posting random photos of black people with guns as they fit your stereotype, shameful, and the reason why black Americans don't trust old white guys to be fair to them. Maybe the next generation will have less bigotry, prejudice, and animus.[/QUOTE]


Many old white people have lived a long time and have seen a lot. Many old black people have lived a long time and have seen a lot.

I have friends who are from India who have very dark skins. I have friends who are black with very dark skin.I have friends who are Chinese, and Mexican and Canadian. I don't think skin color has much to do with how most people decide who to enjoy being with or who to admire or disdain.

Look at the groundswell of love and admiration for the little girl pitcher from Philadelphia.

What people HATE is the do-less attitude of others; black, white, red, pink, yellow or green. People admire people who take care of themselves and their own.

[Moderator]

Please stay on topic and do not address comments to or at other members.

[graciegirl]

You imply that some black person, or "they" as billethkid, karostay, bay kid, and others call them, will exact some revenge for Brown's death. Perhaps you will present us with one or several cases where the "theys" of our nation have perpetrated a murder of white policeman who had been either cleared or never charged. On the other hand of course there are hundreds or thousands of 20th century deaths of minorities by white mobs, or the KKK without trial to avenge such offenses as talking to a white woman. Those who are born with the benefit of white skin cannot begin to understand how "they" are still routinely treated differently by police than you would be. Driving while black, walking while black, shopping while black..... If there is less respect for cops, that lack of respect may have a big basis in life experience. That the OP suggests the way to take care of riots is to just shoot people sounds like a solution that the worst totalitarian governments would certainly endorse. I am not able to verify his memory of any such shoot to kill order in any online source
Flood Ravages Whole State Causing Many Deaths, Millions In Damage - Courant.com (http://www.courant.com/hc-55flood-aug20a1-story,0,1287757,full.story)

Frankly the anti-minority postings of way too many on this forum is sickening.. play classical music, hand out job applications, take away their free stuff, undocumented shoppers, posting random photos of black people with guns as they fit your stereotype, shameful, and the reason why black Americans don't trust old white guys to be fair to them. Maybe the next generation will have less bigotry, prejudice, and animus.

Homicide Leading Cause Of Death Of Young Black Men, Says FAU Researcher (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/10/leading-cause-of-death-young-black-men-homicide_n_3049209.html)

[graciegirl]

////

[blueash]

You know what, let's all be totally honest for a change. What's truly sickening to me is people is who refuse to state the obvious for fear of social condemnation. To wit, it's generally not a race issue but a CLASS issue. No one cares anymore about a person's race if they are middle class in culture and share a common value set.

On the other hand, all one has to do is look at the TV footage on any network and see the rioters in action, and the underclass they come from. No one with any brains or sense of civilized order likes it. These individuals have violated the law, and in some cases used firearms. It needs to be quelled not understood.

in addition, after a half century of social engineering, it's obvious the situation has gotten worse not better for the urban underclass. I challenge anyone to deny that.

The solution is obvious ... have a Mommy and Daddy raise a family, teach the children mainstream religious values (Judeo-Christian), be sure to include the Protestant work ethic and the resultant society usually works pretty well. That's why all the illegals of the world are trying to sneak into America -- it works!

Try to douse the guilt and white privilege ideology, and just look at the world realistically and help fix it.


So when white people invade an area, threaten to shoot cops and other government agents, take over the streets, even claim the law does not apply to them and point their guns at cops, they will be treated no differently than non-whites? They will be shot as soon as they go for their belt, or especially if they raise a weapon? They will be prosecuted for their riot, taking of property? I give you Cliven Bundy as evidence of a difference. What would have been the response of Fox News if these people had been non-whites, armed to the teeth, pointing their weapons?

What happened recently when a very wealthy black woman, well dressed, went into a store and asked to see a very expensive purse? Was she well treated because no one saw her race, just that she shared those Judeo Christian and Protestant values? Ask Oprah.

Sure it is all just a class issues not a color issue. Although pot usage is identical in black vs white, a black person is 4 times more likely to be arrested. The black/white marijuana arrest gap, in nine charts - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/)

Ask Raymond Wilford about the equal treatment of black vs white where the cops pepper sprayed and arrested the wrong person in an altercation in Seattle even as white eyewitnesses told them it was the white guy who caused the problem.
Will the Pepper-Spraying Westlake Security Guard Be Punished? by Ansel Herz - Seattle News - The Stranger, Seattle's Only Newspaper (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/will-the-pepper-spraying-westlake-security-guard-be-punished/Content?oid=20388074)


If you and others can't see white privilege in action every day of your life, that is no doubt because you are benefitting from it. What is truly sickening to me is people who refuse to see the obvious.

[TexaninVA]

So when white people invade an area, threaten to shoot cops and other government agents, take over the streets, even claim the law does not apply to them and point their guns at cops, they will be treated no differently than non-whites? They will be shot as soon as they go for their belt, or especially if they raise a weapon? They will be prosecuted for their riot, taking of property? I give you Cliven Bundy as evidence of a difference. What would have been the response of Fox News if these people had been non-whites, armed to the teeth, pointing their weapons?

What happened recently when a very wealthy black woman, well dressed, went into a store and asked to see a very expensive purse? Was she well treated because no one saw her race, just that she shared those Judeo Christian and Protestant values? Ask Oprah.

Sure it is all just a class issues not a color issue. Although pot usage is identical in black vs white, a black person is 4 times more likely to be arrested. The black/white marijuana arrest gap, in nine charts - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/)

Ask Raymond Wilford about the equal treatment of black vs white where the cops pepper sprayed and arrested the wrong person in an altercation in Seattle even as white eyewitnesses told them it was the white guy who caused the problem.
Will the Pepper-Spraying Westlake Security Guard Be Punished? by Ansel Herz - Seattle News - The Stranger, Seattle's Only Newspaper (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/will-the-pepper-spraying-westlake-security-guard-be-punished/Content?oid=20388074)


If you and others can't see white privilege in action every day of your life, that is no doubt because you are benefitting from it. What is truly sickening to me is people who refuse to see the obvious.

Basically, the argument of white privilege (which you have espoused more or less) says "white people are bad, they stole everything and America's been a gyp job" since the Founding ... ie my paraphrase. Hence, the ideological groundwork for continuation of white guilt and the eventual case for reparations etc. That's actually pretty obvious.

What's also obvious is the Attorney General and MO Gov rode into town, played to the mob shamelessly (by the way, do you deny it was a mob?) and did everything but offer them the rope. This is the path, if not challenged, that eventually leads to a Robespierre as each demagogue (eg Al Sharpton) raises the stakes to satiate what is essentially a very ignorant mob with easily inflamed passions.

I repeat ... the root cancer is cultural and class, not race. That truly is obvious but we can't say that or we get dumped on by the PC crowd. It's also a reflection of what happens when a civilization loses the morality that had been bestowed on it by Judeo Christian ethics and religion.

Another obvious reality ... if a mob loots stores (no matter the reason), and especially if they use firearms to shoot their way into stores (as happened in at least one instance in Ferguson), the Police or National Guard should use their rifles to disperse the crowd. 1st volley is rubber bullets. If that doesn't work, then reload with real bullets.

What, out of curiosity, would you do to control a mob that was getting ready to attack loot and destroy your lifetime of work ... ie business?

[Polar Bear]

I know I'm stating the obvious, but what really irritates me is the looting and violence that the legitimate protestors have nothing to do with.

Peaceful protest and the demand that the shooting (and all similar situations) be fully investigated is a right, understandable, and should be protected by law enforcement.

Those that see these situations as nothing but an opportunity for personal gain, perpetrating violence and theft, either coming in from the outside (bad enough) or against their own neighborhood and neighbors (even worse), make me sick...black, white, yellow, purple, paisley...makes no difference.

I don't envy law enforcement their job in these situations. I know it's easier said than done, but sorting out the legitimate protestors from the criminals seems to be the important thing, imho.

[graciegirl]

I am tired of people holding up an example of horrible things that happened in the past as an excuse. The KKK as awful as it was but it is a mere shadow these days. That kind of hate is not tolerated by the majority of people in this country.

I think about the holocaust and think how many of my Jewish friends whose families were tortured and killed by white people yet continued on to work hard and be independent and successful and they continued to do good for minorities everywhere..and just plain do good. Their parents made huge sacrifices for them so that they could get the education or money they needed to establish an independent life.

I am just tired of all the excuses why people of any color can't make a decent life for themselves in this country TODAY, IF they are not handicapped, sick or mentally ill. Poor is not an excuse, it is a starting point.

[Rags123]

So when white people invade an area, threaten to shoot cops and other government agents, take over the streets, even claim the law does not apply to them and point their guns at cops, they will be treated no differently than non-whites? They will be shot as soon as they go for their belt, or especially if they raise a weapon? They will be prosecuted for their riot, taking of property? I give you Cliven Bundy as evidence of a difference. What would have been the response of Fox News if these people had been non-whites, armed to the teeth, pointing their weapons?

What happened recently when a very wealthy black woman, well dressed, went into a store and asked to see a very expensive purse? Was she well treated because no one saw her race, just that she shared those Judeo Christian and Protestant values? Ask Oprah.

Sure it is all just a class issues not a color issue. Although pot usage is identical in black vs white, a black person is 4 times more likely to be arrested. The black/white marijuana arrest gap, in nine charts - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/)

Ask Raymond Wilford about the equal treatment of black vs white where the cops pepper sprayed and arrested the wrong person in an altercation in Seattle even as white eyewitnesses told them it was the white guy who caused the problem.
Will the Pepper-Spraying Westlake Security Guard Be Punished? by Ansel Herz - Seattle News - The Stranger, Seattle's Only Newspaper (http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/will-the-pepper-spraying-westlake-security-guard-be-punished/Content?oid=20388074)


If you and others can't see white privilege in action every day of your life, that is no doubt because you are benefitting from it. What is truly sickening to me is people who refuse to see the obvious.


When I see a mention of Fox news in a post, I KNOW where that poster is coming from. I never see anyone alluding to the unbelievable news coverage on MSNBC, but the minute I see the Fox comments, I KNOW where that poster is coming from. This from someone who watches neither but understands the brainwashing aspect.

There was a shooting of a white unarmed young man in Salt Lake City by a black police officer. There are in fact protestors because it appears he was unarmed and thought to be armed. Legitimate questions are raised....

NO LOOTING....NO VIOLENCE....and thus far, not a mention of RACE, and the only reason, it appears, that the race is known is that it happened on the same day as the tragedy in Ferguson. Betting that was not on anyones tv screen !!!!

There are those like Sharpton, Jackson, Crump who rely on situations like this. That is the problem that you blame on whites in general.

Is there racism ? Sure, on all sides and has been forever. In the next 10 years white will not be a majority and then can claim that minority status I suppose. The quick draw response to call everyone racism without ever ever looking at root causes, such as culture, politics, economics will allow us to drown in this sea of hate that is being "taught" to young people.

[rubicon]

When I see a mention of Fox news in a post, I KNOW where that poster is coming from. I never see anyone alluding to the unbelievable news coverage on MSNBC, but the minute I see the Fox comments, I KNOW where that poster is coming from. This from someone who watches neither but understands the brainwashing aspect.

There was a shooting of a white unarmed young man in Salt Lake City by a black police officer. There are in fact protestors because it appears he was unarmed and thought to be armed. Legitimate questions are raised....

NO LOOTING....NO VIOLENCE....and thus far, not a mention of RACE, and the only reason, it appears, that the race is known is that it happened on the same day as the tragedy in Ferguson. Betting that was not on anyones tv screen !!!!

There are those like Sharpton, Jackson, Crump who rely on situations like this. That is the problem that you blame on whites in general.

Is there racism ? Sure, on all sides and has been forever. In the next 10 years white will not be a majority and then can claim that minority status I suppose. The quick draw response to call everyone racism without ever ever looking at root causes, such as culture, politics, economics will allow us to drown in this sea of hate that is being "taught" to young people.

Rags I happen to agree with you. However the WSJ recently reported that for the first time ever minority enrollment in schools surpassed white enrollment

I also agree with your opinion concerning TV broadcasts. I refuse to watch any of the alphabet stations not because of their liberal bias but because they have gotten so bold as to re-frame news events to their political likings .

Race continues to be a problem because liberals continue to pander to minorities for votes and in exchange gives them free stuff. How can America move forward if on one hand we demand equality and in the other continue intimating to minorities that they are victims

[Villages PL]

That the OP suggests the way to take care of riots is to just shoot people sounds like a solution that the worst totalitarian governments would certainly endorse.

No one was ever shot because the threat, "shoot to kill" kept people away. That was the point I was making.

[blueash]

Basically, the argument of white privilege (which you have espoused more or less) says "white people are bad, they stole everything and America's been a gyp job" since the Founding ... ie my paraphrase. Hence, the ideological groundwork for continuation of white guilt and the eventual case for reparations etc. That's actually pretty obvious.

What's also obvious is the Attorney General and MO Gov rode into town, played to the mob shamelessly (by the way, do you deny it was a mob?) and did everything but offer them the rope. This is the path, if not challenged, that eventually leads to a Robespierre as each demagogue (eg Al Sharpton) raises the stakes to satiate what is essentially a very ignorant mob with easily inflamed passions.

I repeat ... the root cancer is cultural and class, not race. That truly is obvious but we can't say that or we get dumped on by the PC crowd. It's also a reflection of what happens when a civilization loses the morality that had been bestowed on it by Judeo Christian ethics and religion.

Another obvious reality ... if a mob loots stores (no matter the reason), and especially if they use firearms to shoot their way into stores (as happened in at least one instance in Ferguson), the Police or National Guard should use their rifles to disperse the crowd. 1st volley is rubber bullets. If that doesn't work, then reload with real bullets.

What, out of curiosity, would you do to control a mob that was getting ready to attack loot and destroy your lifetime of work ... ie business?

You do not understand white privilege. It says absolutely nothing about white people being bad or reparations. It says nothing about ethics or civilization or the attorney general (did you know he is a Black man?) White privilege is the fact that if you are white our culture our cops our schools our juries in an unconscious manner give you an advantage which you would not be given if you were black. It means that if identical papers are given to a teacher to be graded and one is written by Susan and one by Shenequa that the paper by Susan which is no different at all, is likely to get a higher grade. Similarly studies of job applications have shown that resumes which have minority names result in fewer interviews
Employers' Replies to Racial Names (http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html)
If you don't think driving while black is a real thing, The Statistical Analysis (http://academic.udayton.edu/race/03justice/dwb03.htm)
or shopping while black see none other than Cond. Rice complain about it
A reader's guide to Condoleezza Rice: An American Life. (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/juicy_bits/2007/12/the_condensed_condoleezza_rice.html)

White privilege is real and gives a real advantage. Tall people are socially advantaged, attractive people are socially advantaged, non-obese people are socially advantaged. It has nothing to do with guilt or Jesse Jackson. It has to do with how every day being black makes life a little harder and why maybe after generations of that kind of engrained cultural bias might just make a black person more likely to get upset at the next traffic stop, or cop encounter, or salesperson following her around in a store. It does, if you're able to look at why, help to explain why when pushed hard enough black communities may push back. No I don't believe rioting is the answer and you should understand that such activity was by a tiny fraction of those involved in the Ferguson protests, and it was vigorously criticized by Sharpton

The civil rights activist, speaking at a rally Sunday afternoon in Ferguson, Mo., also urged people who are protesting the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown to remain peaceful in their actions.

“Some are angry and out of control. And others are taking advantage of it. And don’t take advantage of their child,” said Sharpton, referring to Brown’s parents. Don’t loot in Michael’s name,” he added. “We are not looters, we’re liberators. We are not burners. We are builders.”

And Jesse Jackson:
Jackson urged the crowd to continue protesting but to avoid violence."You can reshape an iron while it's hot, but don't destroy yourself in the process. Don't self-destruct," Jackson said.

But go ahead everyone, just hate on Sharpton and Jackson as agitators and ignore what they actually say. They lead the peaceful protestors including plenty of middle class looking (I know stereotype) and white protestors.

Clergy and activists help Ferguson protests remain calm (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/24/ferguson-protests-peaceful-clergy/14531429/)

[blueash]

There was a shooting of a white unarmed young man in Salt Lake City by a black police officer. There are in fact protestors because it appears he was unarmed and thought to be armed. Legitimate questions are raised....

NO LOOTING....NO VIOLENCE....and thus far, not a mention of RACE, and the only reason, it appears, that the race is known is that it happened on the same day as the tragedy in Ferguson. Betting that was not on anyones tv screen !!!!

This is one of several posts that have referred to the shooting in Utah and questioned why there has not been more outrage or rioting about it. Firstly there is no history of repeated deaths of unarmed white people at the hands of black police to have established a basis for a concern of a racially motivated (even subconsciously) shooting. And while we have all been made aware of the conflicting stories as to what happened in Ferguson there is no conflict as to what happened in SLC. There was a report to the police of a young white male brandishing a handgun near a store. The police responded to the report and confronted a group of persons who fit the description. The cop ordered the person and those he was with get down on the ground with hands on your head and while the others complied the victim reached for his belt. His friends say he was adjusting his pants and did not hear the cop as he was wearing earphones. The cop saw a suspect reaching for his waist and shot as he was looking for a white male armed with a gun that was being brandished and his actions at least initially seem reasonable. And the victim in SLC, was a convicted felon with an active warrant for his arrest. This does not make shooting him ok, and it is unlikely that the cop knew that detail. I mention it only in contraposition to the completely clean criminal record of Mike Brown despite all the postings calling him a criminal or a gang member or a lowlife. He was on his way to college, had a mother and a father and yes seems to have had an altercation with the store owner earlier that day which was not part of a pattern of behavioral given his clean record.

[Patty55]

You do not understand white privilege. It says absolutely nothing about white people being bad or reparations. It says nothing about ethics or civilization or the attorney general (did you know he is a Black man?) White privilege is the fact that if you are white our culture our cops our schools our juries in an unconscious manner give you an advantage which you would not be given if you were black. It means that if identical papers are given to a teacher to be graded and one is written by Susan and one by Shenequa that the paper by Susan which is no different at all, is likely to get a higher grade. Similarly studies of job applications have shown that resumes which have minority names result in fewer interviews
Employers' Replies to Racial Names (http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html)
If you don't think driving while black is a real thing, The Statistical Analysis (http://academic.udayton.edu/race/03justice/dwb03.htm)
or shopping while black see none other than Cond. Rice complain about it
A reader's guide to Condoleezza Rice: An American Life. (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/juicy_bits/2007/12/the_condensed_condoleezza_rice.html)

White privilege is real and gives a real advantage. Tall people are socially advantaged, attractive people are socially advantaged, non-obese people are socially advantaged. It has nothing to do with guilt or Jesse Jackson. It has to do with how every day being black makes life a little harder and why maybe after generations of that kind of engrained cultural bias might just make a black person more likely to get upset at the next traffic stop, or cop encounter, or salesperson following her around in a store. It does, if you're able to look at why, help to explain why when pushed hard enough black communities may push back. No I don't believe rioting is the answer and you should understand that such activity was by a tiny fraction of those involved in the Ferguson protests, and it was vigorously criticized by Sharpton

The civil rights activist, speaking at a rally Sunday afternoon in Ferguson, Mo., also urged people who are protesting the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown to remain peaceful in their actions.

“Some are angry and out of control. And others are taking advantage of it. And don’t take advantage of their child,” said Sharpton, referring to Brown’s parents. Don’t loot in Michael’s name,” he added. “We are not looters, we’re liberators. We are not burners. We are builders.”

And Jesse Jackson:
Jackson urged the crowd to continue protesting but to avoid violence."You can reshape an iron while it's hot, but don't destroy yourself in the process. Don't self-destruct," Jackson said.

But go ahead everyone, just hate on Sharpton and Jackson as agitators and ignore what they actually say. They lead the peaceful protestors including plenty of middle class looking (I know stereotype) and white protestors.

Clergy and activists help Ferguson protests remain calm (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/24/ferguson-protests-peaceful-clergy/14531429/)

What I don't get is why name your child Shenequa, do these people really think that will be an asset?:shrug:

Yes, I think it's about CLASS, not race, not money. I think it's about wanting more for your children than yourself.

As for the Sharpton group, google Crown Heights, Howard Beach and of course the infamous Tawanna Brawley and try to deny he's agitator.

[TexaninVA]

You do not understand white privilege. It says absolutely nothing about white people being bad or reparations. It says nothing about ethics or civilization or the attorney general (did you know he is a Black man?) White privilege is the fact that if you are white our culture our cops our schools our juries in an unconscious manner give you an advantage which you would not be given if you were black. It means that if identical papers are given to a teacher to be graded and one is written by Susan and one by Shenequa that the paper by Susan which is no different at all, is likely to get a higher grade. Similarly studies of job applications have shown that resumes which have minority names result in fewer interviews
Employers' Replies to Racial Names (http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html)
If you don't think driving while black is a real thing, The Statistical Analysis (http://academic.udayton.edu/race/03justice/dwb03.htm)
or shopping while black see none other than Cond. Rice complain about it
A reader's guide to Condoleezza Rice: An American Life. (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/juicy_bits/2007/12/the_condensed_condoleezza_rice.html)

White privilege is real and gives a real advantage. Tall people are socially advantaged, attractive people are socially advantaged, non-obese people are socially advantaged. It has nothing to do with guilt or Jesse Jackson. It has to do with how every day being black makes life a little harder and why maybe after generations of that kind of engrained cultural bias might just make a black person more likely to get upset at the next traffic stop, or cop encounter, or salesperson following her around in a store. It does, if you're able to look at why, help to explain why when pushed hard enough black communities may push back. No I don't believe rioting is the answer and you should understand that such activity was by a tiny fraction of those involved in the Ferguson protests, and it was vigorously criticized by Sharpton

The civil rights activist, speaking at a rally Sunday afternoon in Ferguson, Mo., also urged people who are protesting the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown to remain peaceful in their actions.

“Some are angry and out of control. And others are taking advantage of it. And don’t take advantage of their child,” said Sharpton, referring to Brown’s parents. Don’t loot in Michael’s name,” he added. “We are not looters, we’re liberators. We are not burners. We are builders.”

And Jesse Jackson:
Jackson urged the crowd to continue protesting but to avoid violence."You can reshape an iron while it's hot, but don't destroy yourself in the process. Don't self-destruct," Jackson said.

But go ahead everyone, just hate on Sharpton and Jackson as agitators and ignore what they actually say. They lead the peaceful protestors including plenty of middle class looking (I know stereotype) and white protestors.

Clergy and activists help Ferguson protests remain calm (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/24/ferguson-protests-peaceful-clergy/14531429/)

Actually, I undertand the concept quite well that's emerged in academia over the years, and why it emerged. More importantly I understand the progessive ideology from which it truly stems. I already gave a succint summary of the practical definition so won't repeat it here.

As far as Jackson and Sharpton go, I look at their actions not just their words. Talk is cheap ... actions and results are what matter. They have perfected the art of race hustling ... I will give them credit for that. The race hustlers make it worse. What they really do is exploit the underclass who are essentially ignorant of why they are in the condition they are. Ben Carson, by contrast, worked his way up from nothing. He deserves our respect. Do you agree with that?

It's also inapprorpate for someone when discussing this to simply bring out the rehtroical device of saying 'just go on hating" etc because that's used to silence the oppositoin. I don't think that's going to work anymore.

I also asked you a question about what you would do to deal with a mob.
..." if a mob loots stores (no matter the reason), and especially if they use firearms to shoot their way into stores (as happened in at least one instance in Ferguson), the Police or National Guard should use their rifles to disperse the crowd. 1st volley is rubber bullets. If that doesn't work, then reload with real bullets. What, out of curiosity, would you do to control a mob that was getting ready to attack loot and destroy your lifetime of work ... ie business?"

Please respond.

[blueash]

When I see a mention of Fox news in a post, I KNOW where that poster is coming from. I never see anyone alluding to the unbelievable news coverage on MSNBC, but the minute I see the Fox comments, I KNOW where that poster is coming from. This from someone who watches neither but understands the brainwashing aspect.

Did a little TOTV search to see if anyone ever alludes to MSNBC in a negative way. And got 300 hits since July 2010 including this one posted by you.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/darren-wilson-eye-fracture-124445/

"I have been watching both CNN and MSNBC for a bit today. I kept count, and between those two channels, I have heard the event in question called an execution 17 times by either a host or guest (yes I counted them). I have never heard any of the host or guests suggest that there may have been cause for this shooting. "

Nonetheless, you are correct, when you see Fox News mentioned in a post you do know something about the world view of the poster. So we agree!

[sunnyatlast]

Nonetheless, you are correct, when you see Fox News mentioned in a post you do know something about the world view of the poster. So we agree!

Both sides are presented in this video of Rev. Jesse Jackson and Dr. Ben Carson yesterday, presenting their insights and solutions to the problem.

Anybody who refuses to watch or discards the clear messages in this video, because of the network airing it, is just plain bigoted in my estimation.

Inside mistrust between black communities and the police | On Air Videos | Fox News (http://video.foxnews.com/v/3746535855001)

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Did a little TOTV search to see if anyone ever alludes to MSNBC in a negative way. And got 300 hits since July 2010 including this one posted by you.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-non-villages-discussion-93/darren-wilson-eye-fracture-124445/

"I have been watching both CNN and MSNBC for a bit today. I kept count, and between those two channels, I have heard the event in question called an execution 17 times by either a host or guest (yes I counted them). I have never heard any of the host or guests suggest that there may have been cause for this shooting. "

Nonetheless, you are correct, when you see Fox News mentioned in a post you do know something about the world view of the poster. So we agree!

Many may have missed the fact that FoxNews reported this as an unsubstantiated rumor. CNN and MSNBC both reported it as fact.

[blueash]

I also asked you a question about what you would do to deal with a mob.
..." if a mob loots stores (no matter the reason), and especially if they use firearms to shoot their way into stores (as happened in at least one instance in Ferguson), the Police or National Guard should use their rifles to disperse the crowd. 1st volley is rubber bullets. If that doesn't work, then reload with real bullets. What, out of curiosity, would you do to control a mob that was getting ready to attack loot and destroy your lifetime of work ... ie business?"

Please respond.

Well, for starters I do have admiration for Dr. Carson. He is an excellent example of someone who has used his brain helped by affirmative action programs to succeed. He was an excellent surgeon. I agree with some of his positions for instance that we should continue affirmative action, get guns out of urban areas, and disagree with him on other issues. My response to what to do in a riot is that I don't know. But my life's work being looted does not justify killing a looter We don't have capital punishment for looting. We don't have capital punishment for breaking windows or stealing clothing. A store window can be replaced, stolen TV's can be replaced. A life cannot be, even a life of someone who made a very wrong decision. So I want the police and the Nat Guard to protect life not stuff. There are as I understand it rules for the use of deadly force and that does not include defending the merchandise in a mini-mart. So which of these people, or perhaps all of them, would you like to have killed now?

And we are nicely back to the original issue of this thread, just shoot the looters to solve the problem.

[Rags123]

Many may have missed the fact that FoxNews reported this as an unsubstantiated rumor. CNN and MSNBC both reported it as fact.

Thanks for pointing that out.

It is difficult to have any discussion with anyone who worships one network, one newspaper, one p.....cal philosophy, etc. they are devoid of all the facts, but do not even know it. The poster found a post by me that mentions MSNBC as being among the networks reporting, and if in caps, it was because that night there was an obvious attempt to incite everyone against all police...and it was not just MSNBC that day.

All networks made gaffes on this story...some corrected theirs, some attacked the other network for theirs, and what it has to do with ANYTHING is beyond me, which is why I mentioned the poster alluding to FOX. Experience has taught that when you attack a network, avoid the issue, then you are bowing to another network.

The inaccurate reporting on all networks, to me is a national crime. I choose not to follow the rantings of those who are closed minded, and that applies to all sides. When I post on here, I post links and quotes, and never do they offer any of those mentioned networks as references, either to support, or as could be the case many times, report the errors, omissions and downright lies.

The shame is that people decide things in their mind based on one network or another.

[Rags123]

You do not understand white privilege. It says absolutely nothing about white people being bad or reparations. It says nothing about ethics or civilization or the attorney general (did you know he is a Black man?) White privilege is the fact that if you are white our culture our cops our schools our juries in an unconscious manner give you an advantage which you would not be given if you were black. It means that if identical papers are given to a teacher to be graded and one is written by Susan and one by Shenequa that the paper by Susan which is no different at all, is likely to get a higher grade. Similarly studies of job applications have shown that resumes which have minority names result in fewer interviews
Employers' Replies to Racial Names (http://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html)
If you don't think driving while black is a real thing, The Statistical Analysis (http://academic.udayton.edu/race/03justice/dwb03.htm)
or shopping while black see none other than Cond. Rice complain about it
A reader's guide to Condoleezza Rice: An American Life. (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/juicy_bits/2007/12/the_condensed_condoleezza_rice.html)

White privilege is real and gives a real advantage. Tall people are socially advantaged, attractive people are socially advantaged, non-obese people are socially advantaged. It has nothing to do with guilt or Jesse Jackson. It has to do with how every day being black makes life a little harder and why maybe after generations of that kind of engrained cultural bias might just make a black person more likely to get upset at the next traffic stop, or cop encounter, or salesperson following her around in a store. It does, if you're able to look at why, help to explain why when pushed hard enough black communities may push back. No I don't believe rioting is the answer and you should understand that such activity was by a tiny fraction of those involved in the Ferguson protests, and it was vigorously criticized by Sharpton

The civil rights activist, speaking at a rally Sunday afternoon in Ferguson, Mo., also urged people who are protesting the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown to remain peaceful in their actions.

“Some are angry and out of control. And others are taking advantage of it. And don’t take advantage of their child,” said Sharpton, referring to Brown’s parents. Don’t loot in Michael’s name,” he added. “We are not looters, we’re liberators. We are not burners. We are builders.”

And Jesse Jackson:
Jackson urged the crowd to continue protesting but to avoid violence."You can reshape an iron while it's hot, but don't destroy yourself in the process. Don't self-destruct," Jackson said.

But go ahead everyone, just hate on Sharpton and Jackson as agitators and ignore what they actually say. They lead the peaceful protestors including plenty of middle class looking (I know stereotype) and white protestors.

Clergy and activists help Ferguson protests remain calm (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/24/ferguson-protests-peaceful-clergy/14531429/)

Only thing I will add is that...yes, there is racism.

BUT it is not always present, and should not be our very first conclusion, which in most of these riots, violence, etc has been.

You make a lot of negative judgements about a lot of people, and you credit certain individuals with things.

I suggest I can offer up so much to dispute you admiration of these so called "leaders" that you quote. I suggest that you read up on all of them to just simply be aware of their history and motivation. READ both sides, and no listening...READ, double check. I will simply say that those you mention will not come even remotely close to the pedestal you put them on. The family of Martin Luther King would disagree with you. Their are TRUE civil rights leaders who get drowned out by these folks, but based on what I have read...your mind is made up...you feel you have found the "truth"

I will agree there is racism if that makes you feel better. I, however, will read all sides on any issue and treat it IN CONTEXT and based on facts.

[blueash]

Many may have missed the fact that FoxNews reported this as an unsubstantiated rumor. CNN and MSNBC both reported it as fact.

Fox News report regarding allegation of orbital fracture:

Missouri cop was badly beaten before shooting Michael Brown, says source | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/20/missouri-cop-was-badly-beaten-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/)

"Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket in the fracas, and was left dazed by the initial confrontation, the source said"

and from MSNBC

Two key details about Michael Brown's death are still unknown | MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/key-details-michael-browns-death-still-unknown)
"NBC News has confirmed that Wilson was treated at an area hospital after the altercation, but it is unclear how serious his injury or injuries were,"

and CNN
Source: Darren Wilson did not have a fractured eye socket - CNN.com Video (http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/08/21/nr-lemon-grace-officers-broken-eye-socket-claim-false.cnn.html)

"A source tells CNN that officer Darren Wilson had a swollen face but did not have a fractured eye socket."

So your post that Fox called it a rumor while CNN and MSNBC ran with it as a fact does not seem to be entirely accurate. I will allow for the possibility that there were earlier reports than the ones I cite which may have differed.

[Rags123]

Fox News report regarding allegation of orbital fracture:

Missouri cop was badly beaten before shooting Michael Brown, says source | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/08/20/missouri-cop-was-badly-beaten-before-shooting-michael-brown-says-source/)

"Wilson suffered a fractured eye socket in the fracas, and was left dazed by the initial confrontation, the source said"

and from MSNBC

Two key details about Michael Brown's death are still unknown | MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/key-details-michael-browns-death-still-unknown)
"NBC News has confirmed that Wilson was treated at an area hospital after the altercation, but it is unclear how serious his injury or injuries were,"

and CNN
Source: Darren Wilson did not have a fractured eye socket - CNN.com Video (http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2014/08/21/nr-lemon-grace-officers-broken-eye-socket-claim-false.cnn.html)

"A source tells CNN that officer Darren Wilson had a swollen face but did not have a fractured eye socket."

So your post that Fox called it a rumor while CNN and MSNBC ran with it as a fact does not seem to be entirely accurate. I will allow for the possibility that there were earlier reports than the ones I cite which may have differed.

Please explain what difference it makes what network is right, part right or all wrong ? What does it have to do with the issue ?

Again, your mention of FOX at the outset is what started this entire network thing. If you are getting all your "news" and information from a singular source or sources that are or have the mindset to go after another network, then, in my opinion, your voice should be stilled as you are totally uniformed.
That opinion would apply if you critiqued MSNBC as well.

IF nobody can see the inaccuracies and bias of all these networks, we are in big trouble. PLEASE, read and verify what you read or hear. Takes time but in todays world where everyone has a bias so far from center it is necessary.

[B767drvr]

Actually, I undertand the concept quite well that's emerged in academia over the years, and why it emerged. More importantly I understand the progessive ideology from which it truly stems. I already gave a succint summary of the practical definition so won't repeat it here.

As far as Jackson and Sharpton go, I look at their actions not just their words. Talk is cheap ... actions and results are what matter. They have perfected the art of race hustling ... I will give them credit for that. The race hustlers make it worse. What they really do is exploit the underclass who are essentially ignorant of why they are in the condition they are. Ben Carson, by contrast, worked his way up from nothing. He deserves our respect. Do you agree with that?

It's also inapprorpate for someone when discussing this to simply bring out the rehtroical device of saying 'just go on hating" etc because that's used to silence the oppositoin. I don't think that's going to work anymore.

I also asked you a question about what you would do to deal with a mob.
..." if a mob loots stores (no matter the reason), and especially if they use firearms to shoot their way into stores (as happened in at least one instance in Ferguson), the Police or National Guard should use their rifles to disperse the crowd. 1st volley is rubber bullets. If that doesn't work, then reload with real bullets. What, out of curiosity, would you do to control a mob that was getting ready to attack loot and destroy your lifetime of work ... ie business?"

Please respond.

:bowdown:

[B767drvr]

Tall people are socially advantaged, attractive people are socially advantaged, non-obese people are socially advantaged.

Wow, am I ever advantaged! :pepper2::eclipsee_gold_cup::a040::girlneener:barf

[Chi-Town]

Another network weighs in..........MTV

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/videos/michael-brown-vma-tribute-common/#.U_uCtRWxWYg.email

[sunnyatlast]

Regarding this in a prior post making broad accusations:

"What happened recently when a very wealthy black woman, well dressed, went into a store and asked to see a very expensive purse? Was she well treated because no one saw her race, just that she shared those Judeo Christian and Protestant values? Ask Oprah."

1. This incident and the pursuant accusations of 'racial profiling' happened in Switzerland, NOT in white society in St. Louis or Central FL or the USA.

2. Oprah recanted and said it was blown out of proportion and labeled onto much too wide a segment of society--in Switzerland and it was an isolated incident in Switzerland, and that all of that nation should not be vilified, either!

Oprah Winfrey apologizes for naming Switzerland in store racism incident: I (http://m.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/oprah-winfrey-apologizes-switzerland-racism-incident-blown-article-1.1425378#bmb=1)

[graciegirl]

Well, for starters I do have admiration for Dr. Carson. He is an excellent example of someone who has used his brain helped by affirmative action programs to succeed. He was an excellent surgeon. I agree with some of his positions for instance that we should continue affirmative action, get guns out of urban areas, and disagree with him on other issues. My response to what to do in a riot is that I don't know. But my life's work being looted does not justify killing a looter We don't have capital punishment for looting. We don't have capital punishment for breaking windows or stealing clothing. A store window can be replaced, stolen TV's can be replaced. A life cannot be, even a life of someone who made a very wrong decision. So I want the police and the Nat Guard to protect life not stuff. There are as I understand it rules for the use of deadly force and that does not include defending the merchandise in a mini-mart. So which of these people, or perhaps all of them, would you like to have killed now?

And we are nicely back to the original issue of this thread, just shoot the looters to solve the problem.


NO needs to mean NO... And in my opinion stuff is not ever valued as much as a human life, but stuff can be a persons livelihood and it is important in that respect. Why does one side have to respect the other and not vice versa which is how this looks to me.

I do not believe for one second that this man was killed over stuff or over race. I think he attacked that police officer. BUT I could be wrong.

I could be wrong. We will wait and see.

[John_W]

Just a year ago NBC got caught altering a 911 call to make Zimmerman appear racist. However, Zimmerman's libel suit was thrown out by a judge who somehow believed NBC's claim that they didn't mean any malice.

NBC News broadcast of the 911 call:

Zimmerman "This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black.”

Actual 911 call:

Zimmerman “This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about.”

Dispatcher “OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic?”

Zimmerman “He looks black.”

I grew up watching Huntley-Brinkley and NBC News but have since switched to Diane Sawyer and ABC. I still watch the Today Show and SNL but I consider the source when they make their comments. On the otherhand, I can't watch Fox News, it's just too obvious they are not 'Fair & Balanced. I guess when it's a major story I end up with CNN for the most part.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BTW, has anyone from the Brown family or friends ever paid the shopkeeper for the box of cigars he stole.

http://cdn.frontpagemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/4493754_G.jpg

[janmcn]

BTW, has anyone from the Brown family or friends ever paid the shopkeeper for the box of cigars he stole.

http://cdn.frontpagemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/4493754_G.jpg[/QUOTE]


Where is the link to the story of the stolen cigars? Nobody knows the origin of the photo being shown above...who it is, where it was taken, when it was taken.

There was a horrible photo of Trayvon Martin being circulated with a grill which turned out to be a photo of some rapper.

[graciegirl]

BTW, has anyone from the Brown family or friends ever paid the shopkeeper for the box of cigars he stole.

http://cdn.frontpagemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/4493754_G.jpg


Where is the link to the story of the stolen cigars? Nobody knows the origin of the photo being shown above...who it is, where it was taken, when it was taken.

There was a horrible photo of Trayvon Martin being circulated with a grill which turned out to be a photo of some rapper.[/QUOTE]


Denial is not a river in Egypt. This is not the Trayvon Martin case. The only similarity is that two unarmed black teens were killed.

It appears that some do not believe for one moment that the police officer could be right. I just read where it is no big deal to some that two bottles of cleaning fluid obviously stolen are not an issue.

I don't know what to think or feel or even hope for. It looks like we're done as a country.

[B767drvr]

BTW, has anyone from the Brown family or friends ever paid the shopkeeper for the box of cigars he stole.

http://cdn.frontpagemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/4493754_G.jpg


Where is the link to the story of the stolen cigars? Nobody knows the origin of the photo being shown above...who it is, where it was taken, when it was taken.

[/QUOTE]

Ferguson Police Dept released the convenience store security video below:

SURVEILLANCE VIDEO: Police say Michael Brown was suspect in Ferguson store robbery - YouTube

[janmcn]

So where is the link to the article about the stolen cigars or the origin of the photo shown above? It's inappropriate to slander someone without a shred of evidence.

[janmcn]

Where is the link to the story of the stolen cigars? Nobody knows the origin of the photo being shown above...who it is, where it was taken, when it was taken.



Ferguson Police Dept released the convenience store security video below:

SURVEILLANCE VIDEO: Police say Michael Brown was suspect in Ferguson store robbery - YouTube[/QUOTE]

There is no identification, no date, no time, no location. Being a suspect does not necessarily put one at the scene of the crime.

It's also strange that the Ferguson Police Dept found time to release this photo, purported to be of a robbery, but cannot release the autopsy report or the police report.

[John_W]

Where is the link to the story of the stolen cigars? Nobody knows the origin of the photo being shown above...who it is, where it was taken, when it was taken.

There was a horrible photo of Trayvon Martin being circulated with a grill which turned out to be a photo of some rapper.


You've got what's called selective memory. The photo shown by most of the networks during the Zimmerman trial, was one of an innocent looking 12 year old Trayvon.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9_CO_xamhMfLmeviAai7waSweI4WIX 3PeAZt6SSBV8LGp6uLS

Maybe you're referring to one of these photos, Trayvon smoking pot.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBuLSicZbvWOLzoRnD371TEHyw-PFVbIe--aBXhuLIJP2mVJeg

The box of stolen cigars photo, now that took about 5 seconds for Google to find. They have the technology today to create a screen capture or photo from a video. Yes, there was a video of the robbery, maybe you were sleeping that day. August 15th the Ferguson Police released the video of Brown stealing the cigars and then the 6' 4" 292 pound Brown shoving down the little storekeeper. All the protestors got so upset that the police would try and besmirch the good reputation of Michael Brown. Here's a link to the YouTube video of the thief, that's a website that has a lot of videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEOSaJEN5Q4

[John_W]

proof? Here's a link, his accomplice admits they robbed the store.

Attorney: Dorian Johnson confirms he was with Brown at store robbery (http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/attorney-dorian-johnson-michael-brown-robbery/14118769/)

[janmcn]

You've got what's called selective memory. The photo shown by most of the networks during the Zimmerman trial, was one of an innocent looking 12 year old Trayvon.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9_CO_xamhMfLmeviAai7waSweI4WIX 3PeAZt6SSBV8LGp6uLS

Maybe you're referring to one of these photos, Trayvon smoking pot.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBuLSicZbvWOLzoRnD371TEHyw-PFVbIe--aBXhuLIJP2mVJeg

The box of stolen cigars photo, now that took about 5 seconds for Google to find. They have the technology today to create a screen capture or photo from a video. Yes, there was a video of the robbery, maybe you were sleeping that day. August 15th the Ferguson Police released the video of Brown stealing the cigars and then the 6' 4" 292 pound Brown shoving down the little storekeeper. All the protestors got so upset that the police would try and besmirch the good reputation of Michael Brown. Here's a link to the YouTube video of the thief, that's a website that has a lot of videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEOSaJEN5Q4

What was the date and time of the video and when was the positive identification made? Even if this is Brown in the video, what does it have to do with the shooting? And why was Brown's body allowed to lie in the street for four hours, bleeding out?

It seems to a layman, that the Ferguson police department has opened itself up to all kinds of civil lawsuits.

It seems that some posters believe that because there was an alleged robbery, that the shooting of an unarmed black teen-ager is acceptable.

[Rags123]

What was the date and time of the video and when was the positive identification made? Even if this is Brown in the video, what does it have to do with the shooting? And why was Brown's body allowed to lie in the street for four hours, bleeding out?

It seems to a layman, that the Ferguson police department has opened itself up to all kinds of civil lawsuits.

It seems that some posters believe that because there was an alleged robbery, that the shooting of an unarmed black teen-ager is acceptable.

Are you testifying to the grand jury for Mr. Brown ?

There was a robbery in a cigar store accompanied by strong arming.

Mr Brown's accomplices (the guys with him at that time admit to this)

Conjecture is Mr Brown was being stopped for questioning in that case...only conjecture..no evidence either way.

The picture by the way was released at the same time the police officers name was released. The DOJ, already involved at that point did not want it released. Right or wrong, it appears the police wanted everything non public until the investigation was complete, and maybe picture release was tit for tat on the name...all conjecture.

Why the body laid there so long...nobody knows. Again, in most cases police are allowed to properly investigate without having the entire nation asking for their scalp, but not so in this case. Seems certain folks made this decision immediately.

I sincerely take offense at your remark saying that posters say this shooting was acceptable...that, to me is just plain wrong. I never heard or saw that here or anywhere, but this is becoming just like the Martin case. And every other case of this ilk. All the damning of one side as if a black young man will be shot down for simply walking the street. That for sure did not happen, and to my knowledge, has NEVER occurred involving the police

[TexaninVA]

What was the date and time of the video and when was the positive identification made? Even if this is Brown in the video, what does it have to do with the shooting? And why was Brown's body allowed to lie in the street for four hours, bleeding out?

It seems to a layman, that the Ferguson police department has opened itself up to all kinds of civil lawsuits.

It seems that some posters believe that because there was an alleged robbery, that the shooting of an unarmed black teen-ager is acceptable.

Actually, what really seems clear is that some people do not want to believe any evidence that does not fit the "gentle giant" script -- no matter what their own eyeballs tell them.

Look, let's be real ... to think that in 2014 there are thousands of white cops just waiting and praying to gun down a black kid ...almost for the heck of it ... is a twisted fantasy. It's not reality. What's the point in even trying to help spread this cancerous distrust of law enforcment? Why must white on black events always be racialized?? Why is no one going beserk over the black on black "battlefield casualties" of young black kids every weekend in Chicagor or every other major urban center? Why is Shapton not out front on this? Why?

It's also not a good sign than some are so emotionally invested in the fable of the "gentle giant." The video of the strong arm robbery tells most people, without an agenda either way, a lot about the character and intentions of Mr. Brown. It is not that hard to figure out.

And, to be clear, no one has ever said since he robbed the store he deserved to be shot. The reason he apparently deserved to be shot is, from what I can tell (not all info is in), he physically assaulted a police officer, went for his weapon, and attempted to kill a cop. Now, if that turns out to be true after it's investigated, what will your reaction be? If it's proven, in court, he did try to kill a cop, would that bother you a lot? A llttle? Would you still want to argue it? Just wondering ....

[janmcn]

Actually, what really seems clear is that some people do not want to believe any evidence that does not fit the "gentle giant" script -- no matter what their own eyeballs tell them.

Look, let's be real ... to think that in 2014 there are thousands of white cops just waiting and praying to gun down a black kid ...almost for the heck of it ... is a twisted fantasy. It's not reality. What's the point in even trying to help spread this cancerous distrust of law enforcment? Why must white on black events always be racialized?? Why is no one going beserk over the black on black "battlefield casualties" of young black kids every weekend in Chicagor or every other major urban center? Why is Shapton not out front on this? Why?

It's also not a good sign than some are so emotionally invested in the fable of the "gentle giant." The video of the strong arm robbery tells most people, without an agenda either way, a lot about the character and intentions of Mr. Brown. It is not that hard to figure out.

And, to be clear, no one has ever said since he robbed the store he deserved to be shot. The reason he apparently deserved to be shot is, from what I can tell (not all info is in), he physically assaulted a police officer, went for his weapon, and attempted to kill a cop. Now, if that turns out to be true after it's investigated, what will your reaction be? If it's proven, in court, he did try to kill a cop, would that bother you a lot? A llttle? Would you still want to argue it? Just wondering ....

Yes it would bother me, but it will also bother me if it is proven (by the autopsy report and other tests and eye witnesses) that Brown had his hands in the air and was shouting don't shoot, when he was shot six times and killed by a police officer.

[Rags123]

Yes it would bother me, but it will also bother me if it is proven (by the autopsy report and other tests and eye witnesses) that Brown had his hands in the air and was shouting don't shoot, when he was shot six times and killed by a police officer.


I have no idea of what happened....NONE.

What I wonder about is the assumption and almost fervent hope that the policeman made a mistake. It is Martin case all over again...the constant and ongoing drum of one side.

Why....what prompts this attitude of actually always and constantly assuming the police offer is wrong and that Zimmerman was wrong. I do not get it.....earlier today, networks were mentioned and the only thing I can think of us just listening to the droning and droning from there. Same people who will crucify the Police if they are not there when they are needed.

If a police man shot an unarmed man OF ANY RACE in the street they gotta lock up that policeman.

WHY are all these implications and outrage about race ? I do not get it and then those who make all these case and go on and on call others racist.

I suppose I am just dumb, but some of this makes no sense whatsoever. It is like cheerleaders for Brown.....

Scary stuff...all the calls for justice......if the police officer is found that he should not be indicted, then those like this will want blood. How do they define justice ? Not sure about any of this

PS.....Just was told and do not have time to check on this, but was told that the White House sent more representation to this young mans funeral than they sent to the funeral of Margaret Thatcher. Anyone know if that is true ??
This cop's life is cooked.....he is being sacrificed....and believe me, if he is guilty of a crime he deserves what he gets. I just get infuriated when the implication is that young black men are being shot in the street on a random basis. Anyway, if anyone knows if the administration sent more to this young man's funeral than Thatcher...please post

[rubicon]

We have some potentially good defense lawyers on this thread spreading doubt to make the burden heavier for the prosecuting attorney.

A 6'3" 300 # guy is shown stealing cigars battery on a clerk and a few minutes later pulling a cop into his squad car beating him so badly that the cop sustained a broken jaw and eye socket while this big guy tries to take his gun.
When the cop moves to make a legal arrest based on this altercation the guy runs at him and was shot six times. To me it seems unusual that a guy with his hands up would be running toward the cop. It seems more likely the guy was running toward this cop with his hands in a position of grabbing onto this cop. If this guy was surrendering doesn't it appear he would be more caution and deliberate so that the cop would not mistake any of his moves
Shooting this guy six times doesn't seem unusual because that many shots is what may have been needed to take him down especially since the adrenalin was flow and he was juiced up.

given the beating cops are taking around the country about brutality its a wonder they all don't quit

[TexaninVA]

Well, for starters I do have admiration for Dr. Carson. He is an excellent example of someone who has used his brain helped by affirmative action programs to succeed. He was an excellent surgeon. I agree with some of his positions for instance that we should continue affirmative action, get guns out of urban areas, and disagree with him on other issues. My response to what to do in a riot is that I don't know. But my life's work being looted does not justify killing a looter We don't have capital punishment for looting. We don't have capital punishment for breaking windows or stealing clothing. A store window can be replaced, stolen TV's can be replaced. A life cannot be, even a life of someone who made a very wrong decision. So I want the police and the Nat Guard to protect life not stuff. There are as I understand it rules for the use of deadly force and that does not include defending the merchandise in a mini-mart. So which of these people, or perhaps all of them, would you like to have killed now?

And we are nicely back to the original issue of this thread, just shoot the looters to solve the problem.

Carson should be the role model … not a Sharpton or Jackson. It’s tragic that young black kids are told losers like the two just mentioned are to be idealized and that Carson is an Uncle Tom. Wow, how self-defeating is that? They are guaranteed to never get out of the underclass. Who benefits from that? (Think about it)

Look, I respect your reluctance to take a human life no matter what the circumstances …even with someone breaking into your place. I remember back from the Vietnam days “the” most courageous guys I ever knew were the genuine conscientious objectors (ie could not take a human life on religious principle) yet volunteered so serve as Navy Corpsman on front lines with the grunts. They had very high casualty rates and were genuine patriots. If that’s where you’re coming from, I salute you.

Be that as it may, weakness in enforcing the law brings the dirtbags out. It’s human nature, original sin or whatever you prefer … and it is obviously pervasive in the world (eg ISIS to name but one). There were news reports (can’t remember the details) that most of the arrested rioters came from outside Ferguson. In particular the New Black Panthers form Oakand and the “Revolution Club” (ie communist) out of Chicago descended into Ferguson although I don’t know in what numbers. Does that bother you at all?? Any??

So when you ask which of these I would like to have killed now, my reaction is none. Because the first rifle volley of rubber bullets will disperse the crowd … quite quickly actually. The mob will realize the law will be enforced and, if they proceed they will lose their life. They will rapidly disperse because any mob is cowardly in nature.

That’s the point the original OP was making in so many words … deterrence works. I will add to that by saying … weakness is quite provocative.

[B767drvr]

PS.....Just was told and do not have time to check on this, but was told that the White House sent more representation to this young mans funeral than they sent to the funeral of Margaret Thatcher. Anyone know if that is true ??
Anyway, if anyone knows if the administration sent more to this young man's funeral than Thatcher...please post

More White House officials at Michael Brown (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/08/25/more-white-house-officials-at-michael-browns-funeral-than-thatchers/?intcmp=latestnews)

[Chi-Town]

Are you testifying to the grand jury for Mr. Brown ?

There was a robbery in a cigar store accompanied by strong arming.

Mr Brown's accomplices (the guys with him at that time admit to this)

Conjecture is Mr Brown was being stopped for questioning in that case...only conjecture..no evidence either way.

The picture by the way was released at the same time the police officers name was released. The DOJ, already involved at that point did not want it released. Right or wrong, it appears the police wanted everything non public until the investigation was complete, and maybe picture release was tit for tat on the name...all conjecture.

Why the body laid there so long...nobody knows. Again, in most cases police are allowed to properly investigate without having the entire nation asking for their scalp, but not so in this case. Seems certain folks made this decision immediately.

I sincerely take offense at your remark saying that posters say this shooting was acceptable...that, to me is just plain wrong. I never heard or saw that here or anywhere, but this is becoming just like the Martin case. And every other case of this ilk. All the damning of one side as if a black young man will be shot down for simply walking the street. That for sure did not happen, and to my knowledge, has NEVER occurred involving the police

I remenber two black men were murdered by the Chicago police while they slept, Fred Hampton and Mark Clark. I was a student at the time and remember the outrage then.

[Rags123]

I remenber two black men were murdered by the Chicago police while they slept, Fred Hampton and Mark Clark. I was a student at the time and remember the outrage then.

Not exactly just walking down the street. Mr Hampton was the leader of the Black Panthers and had been drugged by one of his own guys which did not allow him to react. Mr. Clark was sitting at the door standing guard with a shotgun aimed at the door. FBI raid and bad things happened.

As I read on it, years later, it was discovered this was a terrible injustice, BUT it has nothing to do with the standing accusations of simply shooting down black young men in the streets. Not only a different era (60's) but not remotely s gunning down of an unarmed black man in the street.

[Rags123]

More White House officials at Michael Brown (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/08/25/more-white-house-officials-at-michael-browns-funeral-than-thatchers/?intcmp=latestnews)

Thanks..a neighbor mentioned it to me as I was preparing to leave this evening and I knew nothing of it.

Since then, I think I am correct....there was not one rep of our WH at the memorial service for James Foley.

Means basically nothing but import given events, I suppose. Was just surprising to me.

[DeanFL]

I must say, from my heart - I'm giving up reading this particular Thread. My choice.

I've followed it from the start, and must say I have found it quite irritating at times in many respects. I know I know - just don't read it...I've thought that many times on ToTV when some others may comment on a Thread. But this one has been going nowhere fast. The main Posting People seem to be going 'round and 'round but yada.

I feel very strongly about this topic - and will state that we simply COULD NOT bring ourselves to watch the network news tonight. We typically try to catch it nightly - but tonight the main topic from MO would have been so frustrating. And we simply did not want to view Sharpton in his great glory once again - In our opinion, him and the Media sucking on the emotions and wallets of many --- and in our opinion doing a total dis-service to our blessed country.

With that- the 139th posting I believe on this Thread... and we are OUT. Sorry, I see now that a few more posted before sending, guess this is 141 now...

[sunnyatlast]

Why....what prompts this attitude of actually always and constantly assuming the police offer is wrong and that Zimmerman was wrong…..

WHY are all these implications and outrage about race ? I do not get it and then those who make all these cases go on and on call others racist.

I suppose I am just dumb, but some of this makes no sense whatsoever. It is like cheerleaders for Brown.....



Why? To incite more people to join the mob, to "Keep victimhood alive", and to show up at the polls in November.

[Chi-Town]

Not exactly just walking down the street. Mr Hampton was the leader of the Black Panthers and had been drugged by one of his own guys which did not allow him to react. Mr. Clark was sitting at the door standing guard with a shotgun aimed at the door. FBI raid and bad things happened.

As I read on it, years later, it was discovered this was a terrible injustice, BUT it has nothing to do with the standing accusations of simply shooting down black young men in the streets. Not only a different era (60's) but not remotely s gunning down of an unarmed black man in the street.
A history refresher:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/355670

[Rags123]

A history refresher:

Nothing but a Northern Lynching: The Death of Fred Hampton Revisited | Susan Rutberg (http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/355670)

Tell me TWO things...

First, what part of my post was inaccurate or out of context ?

Secondly, what does this situation almost FIFTY years ago have to do with this current situation ?

I honestly try to reply, but as far as I am concerned this part of the conversation is over...you appear just to want to stir things up..not something I want to be involved with. I'M not going to go back fifty years and debate with you.

[buggyone]

As I said earlier, the deed is done and nothing can bring Michael Brown back. Policeman Wilson's life forever changed in the few seconds it took him to empty his pistol. It really does not matter if he is guilty or innocent - his life is changed forever.

Zimmy's life changed forever, too. He cannot get a permanent job, it seems. He claims that he is working part time security jobs.

Is this right or wrong to happen - even if found not guilty of second degree murder?

Well, they have to play the hand dealt to them by either fate or a choice.

[wendyquat]

I do not understand who you mean by "both of these idiots would have complied with the cops instructions, they would both be alive today"?

As to the first part, I have no idea any more than what has been reported of what actually happened. I have never heard those allegations. Well, maybe that is only one network that is not watched at my house.

Then you are being lied to and misinformed!

[Rags123]

As I said earlier, the deed is done and nothing can bring Michael Brown back. Policeman Wilson's life forever changed in the few seconds it took him to empty his pistol. It really does not matter if he is guilty or innocent - his life is changed forever.

Zimmy's life changed forever, too. He cannot get a permanent job, it seems. He claims that he is working part time security jobs.

Is this right or wrong to happen - even if found not guilty of second degree murder?

Well, they have to play the hand dealt to them by either fate or a choice.

"Zimmy's life changed forever, too. He cannot get a permanent job, it seems. He claims that he is working part time security jobs."

I assume you are referring to Mr. Zimmerman, as have not seen anyone refer to anyone else in such a manner ???

[buggyone]

"Zimmy's life changed forever, too. He cannot get a permanent job, it seems. He claims that he is working part time security jobs."

I assume you are referring to Mr. Zimmerman, as have not seen anyone refer to anyone else in such a manner ???


I feel badly for Wilson that he may go through that same trial by media as Zimmerman and no matter what the verdict, his life will never be the same. Even if there is no trial and the grand jury decides the shooting was totally justified, his life has been changed forever.

[graciegirl]

A history refresher:

Nothing but a Northern Lynching: The Death of Fred Hampton Revisited*|*Susan Rutberg (http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/355670)

Please don't quote history. The Jews don't send activists to Octoberfest.

Right now, by law people all have the same civil rights. The KKK has diminished to very few numbers, thank God, and not only do minorities have rights they have most of the majority behind them in spirit. BUT until some real effort for change comes from a lot of the urban poor and for many in that same group to take responsibility for their children financially and most importantly by forming a family...than in my view things aren't going to get better for that particular group of black people. And that group drags down and tarnishes all of the good people who are acting like and living like the majority of folks have always acted and lived here in the U.S. They embarrass those who want better for everyone, and they cause a lot of people to be impatient and angry and discouraged. Many need jobs and they need to have drugs removed from their paws.

Drugs cause crime and killing and lethargy and the addiction adds to robberies and vicious actions against others. For too many, drugs is their job AND drugs make many of the urban poor rich in the same way it makes a lot people in suburbia rich too.

I HATE DRUGS. AND the big drug business.

If you wanna talk about big business being a cancer, Drugs are that big business.

What would the best thing be for all of us do here in The Villages to help this problem?

If only the federal programs designed to help some of the urban poor get by wouldn't enable too many to use money for drugs.

If only we could direct the federal programs specifically for the use they were designed to do. How can that happen?

[TexaninVA]

Please don't quote history. The Jews don't send activists to Octoberfest.

Right now, by law people all have the same civil rights. The KKK has diminished to very few numbers, thank God, and not only do minorities have rights they have most of the majority behind them in spirit. BUT until some real effort for change comes from a lot of the urban poor and for many in that same group to take responsibility for their children financially and most importantly by forming a family...than in my view things aren't going to get better for that particular group of black people. And that group drags down and tarnishes all of the good people who are acting like and living like the majority of folks have always acted and lived here in the U.S. They embarrass those who want better for everyone, and they cause a lot of people to be impatient and angry and discouraged. Many need jobs and they need to have drugs removed from their paws.

Drugs cause crime and killing and lethargy and the addiction adds to robberies and vicious actions against others. For too many, drugs is their job AND drugs make many of the urban poor rich in the same way it makes a lot people in suburbia rich too.

I HATE DRUGS. AND the big drug business.

If you wanna talk about big business being a cancer, Drugs are that big business.

What would the best thing be for all of us do here in The Villages to help this problem?

If only the federal programs designed to help some of the urban poor get by wouldn't enable too many to use money for drugs.

If only we could direct the federal programs specifically for the use they were designed to do. How can that happen?

Excellent post ... and "spot on" as the Brits would say

[sunnyatlast]

Seeing Sharpton screaming and rallying people at the funeral and elsewhere, like it was a campaign rally, I keep wondering why he does not rally young black men and women in Ferguson to:

Graduate from high school, work on self-discipline, and sign up for police schooling and police jobs in Ferguson, so the number of black police there could be proportionate to the black population.

But that's not happening, because that imbalance of white officers is too useful for claiming "racism" as an excuse for not teaching when preaching to the young people.

[janmcn]

Seeing Sharpton screaming and rallying people at the funeral and elsewhere, like it was a campaign rally, I keep wondering why he does not rally young black men and women in Ferguson to:

Graduate from high school, work on self-discipline, and sign up for police schooling and police jobs in Ferguson, so the number of black police there could be proportionate to the black population.

But that's not happening, because that imbalance of white officers is too useful as evidence of "racism" as an excuse for not teaching when preaching to the young people.

Have to agree with you about the police force being proportionate to the black population. It's up to the city leaders to bring this change about, otherwise Ferguson looks like apartheid in South Africa.

Another change for the police department should be that police officers be required to live in the community in which they work and the community that pays their salary. This is common practice in municipalities across the county.

Rev Sharpton's screaming and rallying people is what some in the African American community call preaching. Anyone who has ever attended a black church will understand.

[TexaninVA]

Have to agree with you about the police force being proportionate to the black population. It's up to the city leaders to bring this change about, otherwise Ferguson looks like apartheid in South Africa.

Another change for the police department should be that police officers be required to live in the community in which they work and the community that pays their salary. This is common practice in municipalities across the county.

Rev Sharpton's screaming and rallying people is what some in the African American community call preaching. Anyone who has ever attended a black church will understand.

I've seen and understand black church preaching ... it's inspirational actually. However, I also recognize demagoguery in action. They are not the same by any stretch.

As Sunny said in a recent post, too bad Sharpton doesn't spend his energy on actually doing something to help the young black kids. I'm still amazed he does not get called out more often for it ... he is an exploiter in the truest sense. Very sad.

[Rags123]

Have to agree with you about the police force being proportionate to the black population. It's up to the city leaders to bring this change about, otherwise Ferguson looks like apartheid in South Africa.

Another change for the police department should be that police officers be required to live in the community in which they work and the community that pays their salary. This is common practice in municipalities across the county.

Rev Sharpton's screaming and rallying people is what some in the African American community call preaching. Anyone who has ever attended a black church will understand.

It is an obvious conversation, the one about the disproportionate amount of whites on the Ferguson police force.

There are answers being given...albeit not all of them. Problem is nobody is listening very much....they want to hear what they want to hear. What I am offering is certainly not the solution nor all the answers, but it is a conversation for those folks in that area and at least not simply drumming on the obvious.

From an ex mayor of Ferguson on PBS....

"I will tell you my vision of why there is a difficulty of having very few African-Americans on most of the Saint Louis suburbs. One is there’s a lack of African-American men and women going through the police academy. We constantly tried — when I was mayor, for six years, we constantly tried to hire African-Americans. When we did so, they were recruited from other surrounding municipalities because they had the same exact issue of seeking more African-American police officers. And they are unfortunately allowed to pay more money than we have the budget for.

It’s not for lack of trying. It’s just there is enough — not enough candidates available within the African-American community to hire them. I would like the list provided to us, if someone has a list — and certainly we have been trying to do that. Unfortunately, they’re taken from us by other larger communities, even though Ferguson is not small, we are approximately 22,000, and we are the fifth or sixth largest municipality in those 90 that Tony mentioned."



There is also conversations, not excuses, not shrieking but good solid conversation starters on most of the issues raised. I suggest if you really care about this issue that you read it.

Why doesn't Ferguson's police force reflect the community? (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/why-doesnt-fergusons-police-force-reflect-the-community/)

There are other answers out there, but while I agree on conversation on this subject, I totally and completely disagree with comments on Mr Sharpton. He is a man who has lied and deceived for a long time. He has dismissed with a total lack of action the pushes by real civil rights leaders who feel the effort WITHIN the community of blacks is falling short. THAT push will not get headlines.

If you wish a list of links, or whatever to support Mr Sharpton and his various and many deceptions, just let me know...I will be glad to supply them to you on here but that everyone is aware of and that conversation is a waste. Those who know him and still follow him...well....best thing is no comment.

[Rags123]

I've seen and understand black church preaching ... it's inspirational actually. However, I also recognize demagoguery in action. They are not the same by any stretch.

As Sunny said in a recent post, too bad Sharpton doesn't spend his energy on actually doing something to help the young black kids. I'm still amazed he does not get called out more often for it ... he is an exploiter in the truest sense. Very sad.

Just agreeing. I have been to many many black church services and Mr Sharpton's verbage sans actions except when he gets on tv is NOT REPRESENTATIVE of my experience.

Most pastors who speak passion at these services are doing and not blaming.

[Papa Cuma]

I suggest we take all the lawbreakers to the back of the courthouse and shoot them.

[TexaninVA]

I suggest we take all the lawbreakers to the back of the courthouse and shoot them.

I suggest we just use the legal system
and remain inside the courthouse both
literally and figuratively

[Papa Cuma]

I suggest we just use the legal system

and remain inside the courthouse both

literally and figuratively


Bullets are cheaper

[graciegirl]

Bullets are cheaper


Ummm. You have a cousin Vinny? Maybe YOUR pizza is best. Whatever you say....lol.

[sunnyatlast]

Have to agree with you about the police force being proportionate to the black population. It's up to the city leaders to bring this change about, otherwise Ferguson looks like apartheid in South Africa.

Another change for the police department should be that police officers be required to live in the community in which they work and the community that pays their salary. This is common practice in municipalities across the county.

Rev Sharpton's screaming and rallying people is what some in the African American community call preaching. Anyone who has ever attended a black church will understand.

It's up to the city leaders? Why would city leaders (elected office holders) or ANY employer hire somebody who has not taken the initiative to fill out an application?

Why would city officials hire somebody who has dropped out of high school?

Why would city employers hire somebody who quit an associate degree program the person was enrolled in for purposes of applying for a police job?

If the person him/herself does not apply for the police job, they're not interested in the job! And if they're not interested in the job, they're not going to be good and effective at the job!

It's up to parents, church leaders (like Sharpton) and school faculty and administrators to teach their children to look forward to a future that includes a a paycheck earned by working for it and by earning the the education and credentials to qualify for it.

And don't tell me about "screaming" at black church services. I've enjoyed many of them because of the lively feedback from engaged people in the pews. The reason they are engaged is because the Word of God is being taught with meaning and application and a memorable take-home message the person can refer back to in real life all week/month/year long. God's Word is effective wherever it is read and proclaimed.

Effective pastors do not blame all the black community's problems on their caucasian brothers and sisters! They teach people to be a disciple of Christ, and the root word "disciple" is IN the word "discipline". Self-discipline, with God's help.

[janmcn]

It's up to the city leaders? Why would city leaders (elected office holders) or ANY employer hire somebody who has not taken the initiative to fill out an application?

Why would city officials hire somebody who has dropped out of high school?

Why would city employers hire somebody who quit an associate degree program the person was enrolled in for purposes of applying for a police job?

If the person him/herself does not apply for the police job, they're not interested in the job! And if they're not interested in the job, they're not going to be good and effective at the job!

It's up to parents, church leaders (like Sharpton) and school faculty and administrators to teach their children to look forward to a future that includes a a paycheck earned by working for it and by earning the the education and credentials to qualify for it.

And don't tell me about "screaming" at black church services. I've enjoyed many of them because of the lively feedback from engaged people in the pews. The reason they are engaged is because the Word of God is being taught with meaning and application and a memorable take-home message the person can refer back to in real life all week/month/year long. God's Word is effective wherever it is read and proclaimed.

Effective pastors do not blame all the black community's problems on their caucasian brothers and sisters! They teach people to be a disciple of Christ, and the root word "disciple" is IN the word "discipline". Self-discipline, with God's help.

Who has not taken the initiative to fill out an application? Who has dropped out of high school? Who has quit an associate degree program enrolled for the purposes of applying for a police job? It's can't be the victim, Michael Brown, because he was a recent high school graduate and headed to college.

Please post a link to the statistics on all this new information.

[Patty55]

Who has not taken the initiative to fill out an application? Who has dropped out of high school? Who has quit an associate degree program enrolled for the purposes of applying for a police job? It's can't be the victim, Michael Brown, because he was a recent high school graduate and headed to college.

Please post a link to the statistics on all this new information.

And where does robbing a convenience store come into his master plan?

[janmcn]

And where does robbing a convenience store come into his master plan?


Unfortunately we'll never know the answer to that question, will we?

[Shimpy]

What I remember is that the governor called in the National Guard and gave the following order: "If you see anyone looting, shoot to kill." I believe that put a stop to it.

Why don't we do that anymore?

Because everyone in the gov. has turned into a bunch of bleeding hearts and want to cuddle those that take advantaged of those that are down.
I also remember the order in the Florida Keys after a hurricane, "looters will be shot". Guess what? NO LOOTERS. There is nothing more dispicable than someone taking advantaged of people that are down except those that want to protect those looters.

[zonerboy]

Eventually the demonstrations, and the protests, and the rioting, and the looting, and the endless discussions will all die down. Things will get back toward normalcy in Ferguson, Mo.
And then, I predict, the citizenry will start complaining that there aren't enough stores serving their community, and that those stores that are there charge higher prices than similar stores in mostly "white" communities. And the Rangles and Sharptons and Jacksons will say this is just another example of how black people are being treated unfairly in this country.
Wanna bet?

[B767drvr]

Eventually the demonstrations, and the protests, and the rioting, and the looting, and the endless discussions will all die down. Things will get back toward normalcy in Ferguson, Mo.
And then, I predict, the citizenry will start complaining that there aren't enough stores serving their community, and that those stores that are there charge higher prices than similar stores in mostly "white" communities. And the Rangles and Sharptons and Jacksons will say this is just another example of how black people are being treated unfairly in this country.
Wanna bet?

:BigApplause:

The corporate parent of the looted and burned Quik-E-Mart has already stated they WILL NOT rebuild.

[Shimpy]

Eventually the demonstrations, and the protests, and the rioting, and the looting, and the endless discussions will all die down. Things will get back toward normalcy in Ferguson, Mo.
And then, I predict, the citizenry will start complaining that there aren't enough stores serving their community, and that those stores that are there charge higher prices than similar stores in mostly "white" communities. And the Rangles and Sharptons and Jacksons will say this is just another example of how black people are being treated unfairly in this country.
Wanna bet?

I don't wanna bet, I agree. They burn down their stores then complain they don't have any......And they wonder why new retailers don't want to open new stores there. Nothing new here. These neighborhoods look forward for a reason to riot, break into stores and loot.

[Patty55]

Unfortunately we'll never know the answer to that question, will we?

Asking how robbing a convenience store puts him on the road to success was a rhetorical question, but I'll play along...

IT DOESN'T.

[TexaninVA]

Eventually the demonstrations, and the protests, and the rioting, and the looting, and the endless discussions will all die down. Things will get back toward normalcy in Ferguson, Mo.
And then, I predict, the citizenry will start complaining that there aren't enough stores serving their community, and that those stores that are there charge higher prices than similar stores in mostly "white" communities. And the Rangles and Sharptons and Jacksons will say this is just another example of how black people are being treated unfairly in this country.
Wanna bet?

Unfortunately you are exactly right.

That also gives us insight into the way the demagogues are seemingly able to perpetually exploit the credulous underclass. Always saying "its somebody else's fault" seems to work every time.

By contrast, the message of personal responbility is a tough sell.

[sunnyatlast]

The pool of associate degree graduates qualified to apply for police or other vocational-technical-college graduate jobs in Ferguson is reflected here. Also shown is the hope and investment made via the African-American Male Initiative at this community college in Ferguson:

"When U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder landed in St. Louis Wednesday morning, a community college in Ferguson was his first destination.
St. Louis Community College at Florissant Valley is where the nation’s chief lawyer met with students and community leaders in an attempt to quell the most heated racial flare-up in recent American memory. But the Ferguson campus is also where scores of the region’s young people set their sights, hoping higher education can offset the burdens of a disadvantaged upbringing. Many youth in the predominantly black area are not unlike Michael Brown, the college-bound teenager shot and killed by a Ferguson police officer.

Even on campus, though, these students face long odds. Many see the college as a way out, said Marc Wallace, who graduated from Florissant Valley in 2005. But few earn a degree. No more than a quarter of students graduate from the campus or transfer to a four-year institution, college officials said.……

A ‘Safe Haven’
The college is half a mile from West Florissant Avenue, the commercial thoroughfare along which protesters have marched in the days following Brown’s death. Protesters burned down a QuikTrip gas station on West Florissant on Sunday…….

"The area’s young people, then, naturally look to Florissant Valley as a way to advance. The college tries to attract and mentor the low-income African-American students who live in the surrounding area. “That’s one of the groups we are focusing on,” Bell said.

In 2009, boosted by a pair of Education Department grants, St. Louis Community College launched a program known as the African-American Male Initiative, housed on the Florissant Valley and Forest Park campuses. The mentoring program, designed to boost the enrollment and retention of African-American men, served 349 students in the 2013-14 academic year, a Florissant Valley spokesperson said.

But despite the college’s efforts, only a fraction of students successfully use Florissant Valley as a launch pad. The campus’s graduation rate is 6.4 percent, said Dan Kimack, St. Louis Community College’s director of public information and marketing. And 19 percent of Florissant Valley students transfer to a four-year institution. District-wide rates – meaning average rates for all four St. Louis Community College campuses – are higher. The district has a 9.9 percent graduation rate and a 22.4 percent transfer rate, Kimack said."

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/08/21/community-college-serves-ferguson-mo-has-high-aspirations-low-graduation-rates

[Rags123]

The pool of associate degree graduates qualified to apply for police or other vocational-technical-college graduate jobs in Ferguson is reflected here. Also shown is the hope and investment made via the African-American Male Initiative at this community college in Ferguson:

"When U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder landed in St. Louis Wednesday morning, a community college in Ferguson was his first destination.
St. Louis Community College at Florissant Valley is where the nation’s chief lawyer met with students and community leaders in an attempt to quell the most heated racial flare-up in recent American memory. But the Ferguson campus is also where scores of the region’s young people set their sights, hoping higher education can offset the burdens of a disadvantaged upbringing. Many youth in the predominantly black area are not unlike Michael Brown, the college-bound teenager shot and killed by a Ferguson police officer.

Even on campus, though, these students face long odds. Many see the college as a way out, said Marc Wallace, who graduated from Florissant Valley in 2005. But few earn a degree. No more than a quarter of students graduate from the campus or transfer to a four-year institution, college officials said.……

A ‘Safe Haven’
The college is half a mile from West Florissant Avenue, the commercial thoroughfare along which protesters have marched in the days following Brown’s death. Protesters burned down a QuikTrip gas station on West Florissant on Sunday…….

"The area’s young people, then, naturally look to Florissant Valley as a way to advance. The college tries to attract and mentor the low-income African-American students who live in the surrounding area. “That’s one of the groups we are focusing on,” Bell said.

In 2009, boosted by a pair of Education Department grants, St. Louis Community College launched a program known as the African-American Male Initiative, housed on the Florissant Valley and Forest Park campuses. The mentoring program, designed to boost the enrollment and retention of African-American men, served 349 students in the 2013-14 academic year, a Florissant Valley spokesperson said.

But despite the college’s efforts, only a fraction of students successfully use Florissant Valley as a launch pad. The campus’s graduation rate is 6.4 percent, said Dan Kimack, St. Louis Community College’s director of public information and marketing. And 19 percent of Florissant Valley students transfer to a four-year institution. District-wide rates – meaning average rates for all four St. Louis Community College campuses – are higher. The district has a 9.9 percent graduation rate and a 22.4 percent transfer rate, Kimack said."

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/08/21/community-college-serves-ferguson-mo-has-high-aspirations-low-graduation-rates

I think you should be thanked for your detailed and factual response to the questions asked of you earlier. It is unfortunate that those who ask do not answer.

I must tell you that in my opinion, your well thought out detailed answer will fall on deaf ears, as it appears that there are those who decided on August 9 who was at fault. While they had no information, and still do not, for some reason they immediately begin a defense of Mr. Brown (as was the case with Travon Martin) based on what I can only assume is race.

What motivates that injustice is well beyond me.

[Stdole]

The last thing on earth that Jessie and Uncle Al wants is for their population to get solid jobs... that would put Al and Jessie out of work!!

[Bay Kid]

Unfortunately we'll never know the answer to that question, will we?

If only his parents had taught him to respect others.

[sammy8duck]

This thread shows a lot of hatred and I hope it does not represent the views of the majority of Villagers. Racial comments about black's work ethic or that they all just loot or want something for nothing are neither rebuked or questioned. It is easy for the privileged who live here to make these comments when they haven't had to experience what it is like to be black in certain areas of this country.

[graciegirl]

This thread shows a lot of hatred and I hope it does not represent the views of the majority of Villagers. Racial comments about black's work ethic or that they all just loot or want something for nothing are neither rebuked or questioned. It is easy for the privileged who live here to make these comments when they haven't had to experience what it is like to be black in certain areas of this country.

Yes, many of us are "privileged" now but many of us started out without much at all. Many of us had enough food and decent shelter and a family who loved us, but not anything like the lifestyle we now enjoy.No extras, no lessons, no college money, many had home made dresses, I did.

We can't know what it is like to be anything other than what we are. I don't read HATE, I read fear. Racial tensions are building and they are being encouraged by the media and by the activists.

I don't think most people expect anything more from others, than they expect from themselves and their children. Many were looked down on for being children of immigrants when they were young. I do not think that any prejudice was as great or as awful as that against blacks in the past, but I think we have all come a long way from that kind of pre judging.

If you read that the majority of us believe in the work ethic, You're darn tootin', because that is how many of us got here.

[Rags123]

This thread shows a lot of hatred and I hope it does not represent the views of the majority of Villagers. Racial comments about black's work ethic or that they all just loot or want something for nothing are neither rebuked or questioned. It is easy for the privileged who live here to make these comments when they haven't had to experience what it is like to be black in certain areas of this country.


I think what you are seeing is a REACTION to....I suppose it could be called hate, but a reaction to the immediate and vicious accusations based not in fact of one man.

NOBODY expressed hate for Mr. Brown or anyone of another color, but hate for those who, without any facts, robbed, burned and destroyed innocent peoples property.

Had those immediate accusations not taken place, a discussion, AND THIS WAS A DISCUSSION OF LOOTING AND RIOTING, NOT race, guilt/innocence or anything else would have been totally different.

PS...I was not sure where this belonged..decided here. Yesterday, a network spent the greater part of their news day with Mr Brown's funeral, and led just about every hour with a purported audio tape that would show something (they alluded all day to it supporting Mr Brown). They interviewed folks in Ferguson over and over about this tape. TODAY, they do not even mention it, and one on air person openly questioned it existence and it's validity.

THIS kind of thing sparks a reaction, as does the killing of an unarmed youth of any race. The verbage you read here is because after always being put in a defensive spot immediately will sour how you feel, MUCH LIKE I am sure the citizens of Ferguson must have felt. Instead of VOTING, which I understand is not done much there, there are riots, looting a, etc prodded by so called leaders of a movement. This is what spawns reaction.

Nobody knows if the policeman erred or not...if he did, he will suffer the consequences, but, in my opinion, the racist feelings are reverse of how you see it.

[buggyone]

Yes, the poster is right. This thread started as a discussion of how to control looting and rioting and the OP told of how a shoot to kill order had worked out well in 1955. The thread did not take on racial tones for 4 more postings and went downhill from there.

[Rags123]

Yes, the poster is right. This thread started as a discussion of how to control looting and rioting and the OP told of how a shoot to kill order had worked out well in 1955. The thread did not take on racial tones for 4 more postings and went downhill from there.


With all due respect, I totally disagree. The only race remarks I recall...not saying I am 100% correct...were those who chose to discuss race in calling for the officers head. Most, if not all referred to looters as looters.....rioters as rioters...SHARPTON as Sharpton, etc. Much, if not all racial references were by those who questioned the racial make up of the police, etc.

[Bay Kid]

[/COLOR][/B]

Yes, many of us are "privileged" now but many of us started out without much at all. Many of us had enough food and decent shelter and a family who loved us, but not anything like the lifestyle we now enjoy.No extras, no lessons, no college money, many had home made dresses, I did.

We can't know what it is like to be anything other than what we are. I don't read HATE, I read fear. Racial tensions are building and they are being encouraged by the media and by the activists.

I don't think most people expect anything more from others, than they expect from themselves and their children. Many were looked down on for being children of immigrants when they were young. I do not think that any prejudice was as great or as awful as that against blacks in the past, but I think we have all come a long way from that kind of pre judging.

If you read that the majority of us believe in the work ethic, You're darn tootin', because that is how many of us got here.

Well stated.

[rp001]

This thread shows a lot of hatred and I hope it does not represent the views of the majority of Villagers. Racial comments about black's work ethic or that they all just loot or want something for nothing are neither rebuked or questioned. It is easy for the privileged who live here to make these comments when they haven't had to experience what it is like to be black in certain areas of this country.

I read a lot of hate and some not so thinly veiled racial comments. Seems to be the attitude of a lot of folks on this forum, not so much that of this entire place. The key is don't engage these folks in a social situation over these controversial issues. You don't go to a soccer game and judge the other moms by their " politics", but rather by their actions and behaviors.

[Chi-Town]

I read a lot of hate and some not so thinly veiled racial comments. Seems to be the attitude of a lot of folks on this forum, not so much that of this entire place. The key is don't engage these folks in a social situation over these controversial issues. You don't go to a soccer game and judge the other moms by their " politics", but rather by their actions and behaviors.
I think rather than it is a lot of folk's attitude on this forum it's only a few. Its just that this thread brought them all out.

[TexaninVA]

This thread shows a lot of hatred and I hope it does not represent the views of the majority of Villagers. Racial comments about black's work ethic or that they all just loot or want something for nothing are neither rebuked or questioned. It is easy for the privileged who live here to make these comments when they haven't had to experience what it is like to be black in certain areas of this country.

Actually I see a lot of demagoguery and advocacy of views that result in the callous exploitation of the American underclass. While the advocates words are often nice and full of good intentions, the result of what they actually do is a lifetime sentence of poverty and misery for many blacks. How do you respond to that? I think that is statically obvious and overwhelming true.

Also, I think that usually when someone accuses others of "hatred” etc, that is really just another way of saying "there will be no more discussion of this topic because I disagree