AC out again

[Warren Kiefer]

Our Air conditioning is out again. Tech says it is the compressor again. This will make my fourth compressor in 17 years, the last one only lasted 14 months. Yes, the one year warrantee expired two months ago. My problem is that we had to wait seven days for Munns to receive the last new compressor. You would think with the thousands of AC units Munns has installed in the Villages, they would have every part available rather than having to order a compressor.:cus:

[buggyone]

Sounds like you should consider an extended warranty on the next compressor.

[JGVillages]

Might be time for a new air conditioner???????

[redwitch]

Or a new repair company?

[logdog]

Maybe it's time for a second opinion. Chuck Farrell at 753-9497 fixed my A/C last week. He came out quickly and price was very reasonable. Compressors should not be failing that quickly.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Wow! I've never heard of anything like that before. I had air conditioning in my house up north for 15 years, before that, I had a condo with central air. I also had a home in Sarasota for five years and never replaced the compressor in any of them.

[2BNTV]

Maybe it's time for a second opinion. Chuck Farrell at 753-9497 fixed my A/C last week. He came out quickly and price was very reasonable. Compressors should not be failing that quickly.

:agree:

Sounds like they are treating the symptom and not remedying the cause of the compressor failure. IMHO

[Warren Kiefer]

sounds like you should consider an extended warranty on the next compressor.

you cannot get an extended warranty on the unit or even a new part after 10 years.

[Warren Kiefer]

might be time for a new air conditioner???????

this is also my second air conditioner. I did buy an extended warranty but i am told that there is no company who offers an extended warranty for any units that are older than 10 years.

[red tail]

Our Air conditioning is out again. Tech says it is the compressor again. This will make my fourth compressor in 17 years, the last one only lasted 14 months. Yes, the one year warrantee expired two months ago. My problem is that we had to wait seven days for Munns to receive the last new compressor. You would think with the thousands of AC units Munns has installed in the Villages, they would have every part available rather than having to order a compressor.:cus:

I don't think they stock parts for a 17 year old unit. what exactly is your complaint?

[drdodge]

you need a second opinion or better a new service man

[KEVIN & JOSIE]

It's very possible that the installer of the new compressor is not evacuating the system long enough and leaving contaminates in the sealed refrigerant system. That would explain premature failure of the compressors. If your system does not have one, the installation of a liquid line filter would help remove contaminents. Make sure a new contactor is installed with the new compressor. I have seen voltage drop across bad contacts, causing higher amperage and heat on the compressor. Heat is #1 enemy of motors. Contactors are not expensive and worth the few dollars. :wave:

[DDoug]

If its a Trane get rid of it go with a carrier. I have a Trane bought the 10 warranty just for that reason and glad I did compressor and evap unit. best 350 dollars I spent. One more year on warranty.

[Warren Kiefer]

or a new repair company?

you are probably not aware that no company in the villages has a better reputation than munns.

[redwitch]

I'm very aware of Munn's reputation but that doesn't mean they are necessarily the best. I much prefer dealing with Chuck Farrell. Munn's is excellent with newer A/Cs; I've not found their guys to be all that knowledgeable about older ones.

[cattywampus]

according to contractormag.com
Munn's Sales & Service in Fruitland Park Florida is a "mechanical contractor"

They ( Munn's Sales & Service ) reported $ 140 MILLION of revenue in 2013
$ 70 Million in Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning and
$ 70 Million in Plumbing.

Perhaps they are doing some things right, to please the customer,
in order to generate that amount of revenue.

[Papa Cuma]

If its a Trane get rid of it go with a carrier. I have a Trane bought the 10 warranty just for that reason and glad I did compressor and evap unit. best 350 dollars I spent. One more year on warranty.


Trane or Carrier makes no difference. How it's installed makes all the difference. Was it evacuated long enough? Does it have the correct charge ? Is the line set the correct size ? Is the blower running at the correct speed ? Is the tonnage correct for the space ? Has the transformer been tapped for the correct voltage ?
The correct installation determines the life of the unit. Shortcuts are made because of time constraints or lack of knowledge or apathy. IMPO

[Warren Kiefer]

I don't think they stock parts for a 17 year old unit. what exactly is your complaint?

My comment was not about parts for a 17 year old AC unit. Read my post carefully, my present unit less than 10,years old. Surely you understand AC units are not like automobiles which have model changes every year. AC units of today are virtually the same as they were 40 years ago. A compressor is a compressor is a compressor and is only different in sizes. The only AC parts not usually in stock are compressors and the reason is the cost of over $2000 each.

[Warren Kiefer]

Trane or Carrier makes no difference. How it's installed makes all the difference. Was it evacuated long enough? Does it have the correct charge ? Is the line set the correct size ? Is the blower running at the correct speed ? Is the tonnage correct for the space ? Has the transformer been tapped for the correct voltage ?
The correct installation determines the life of the unit. Shortcuts are made because of time constraints or lack of knowledge or apathy. IMPO

I have been told dozens of times that AC units in Florida only last an average of 10 years. I believe this is accurate as I watch most of my neighbors having their AC units replaced at about this lapse of time. You do present some valid points BUT, there are differences. One of the main components that fail are the cooling coils. Several years ago cooling coils were all made of copper. In today's units the coils are now made of aluminum and much thinner than the copper coils.

[Warren Kiefer]

I'm very aware of Munn's reputation but that doesn't mean they are necessarily the best. I much prefer dealing with Chuck Farrell. Munn's is excellent with newer A/Cs; I've not found their guys to be all that knowledgeable about older ones.

What is your basis for stating Munn's techs not being knowledgeable with older AC's? As I recall, Munns was the primary AC contractor in the Villages from the onset.

[Warren Kiefer]

Our Air conditioning is out again. Tech says it is the compressor again. This will make my fourth compressor in 17 years, the last one only lasted 14 months. Yes, the one year warrantee expired two months ago. My problem is that we had to wait seven days for Munns to receive the last new compressor. You would think with the thousands of AC units Munns has installed in the Villages, they would have every part available rather than having to order a compressor.:cus:

I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE "THE REST OF THE STORY" WITH YOU. As soon as the problem was found to be the compressor, Ted, from Munns went on a search to find a replacement compressor. Within a few hours, a replacement was found in Ocala. A Munns employee was dispatched to get the new compressor. Munns did not stop there, at 8PM a tech came to my home to install the new compressor. At 10:30PM I had air conditioning again. I cannot praise the Munns company enough for going the extra mile. And the final good news, my extended was still in effect until September 16th. My cost was ZERO !!!!!!!!

[bluedog103]

Warren, was the purpose of this thread for you to vent? That's fine if that was the case but several posters have offered good advice. I would be very grateful for their input.

[Papa Cuma]

I have been told dozens of times that AC units in Florida only last an average of 10 years. I believe this is accurate as I watch most of my neighbors having their AC units replaced at about this lapse of time. You do present some valid points BUT, there are differences. One of the main components that fail are the cooling coils. Several years ago cooling coils were all made of copper. In today's units the coils are now made of aluminum and much thinner than the copper coils.

The cooling coil you are referring to is the evaporator or in the instance of a heat pump it is called an inside coil. The gauge of the coil does not determine its longevity. If the line set has been evacuated properly there will be no acid present in the system thereby negating the porosity of the evaporator. Up selling is the reason for systems bring replaced within 10 years. The typical Florida technician is trained to upsell rather then repair the problem. He receives a commission for his efforts. I am a commercial HVAC professional that knows full well how these guys operate and frankly I find it disturbing and IMHO borderline criminal .

[tuccillo]

Your comment about compressors is not exactly true. There are piston and scroll compressors, although most are scroll today. There are one-speed and two-speed piston and scroll compressors. There are a couple of different manufacturers, although I believe Copeland is the largest in the residential market. The last time I had a compressor replaced it took 1 day to get the part from a regional distribution center and it was a 2-speed Bristol, not exactly a common compressor.

My comment was not about parts for a 17 year old AC unit. Read my post carefully, my present unit less than 10,years old. Surely you understand AC units are not like automobiles which have model changes every year. AC units of today are virtually the same as they were 40 years ago. A compressor is a compressor is a compressor and is only different in sizes. The only AC parts not usually in stock are compressors and the reason is the cost of over $2000 each.

[Warren Kiefer]

Warren, was the purpose of this thread for you to vent? That's fine if that was the case but several posters have offered good advice. I would be very grateful for their input.

You must have missed my reply thanking a poster for their good information. Unfortunately sometimes people seem to get a different message than I intended.

[Warren Kiefer]

Your comment about compressors is not exactly true. There are piston and scroll compressors, although most are scroll today. There are one-speed and two-speed piston and scroll compressors. There are a couple of different manufacturers, although I believe Copeland is the largest in the residential market. The last time I had a compressor replaced it took 1 day to get the part from a regional distribution center and it was a 2-speed Bristol, not exactly a common compressor.

Once again the message was missed. I understand your comments BUT a person must remember Munn's was not installing hundreds of different kinds of units. I would offer a safe guess that there are probably 10,000, maybe 20,000 units just like mine here in the Villages. Same model, same brand same size, same compressor..

[Warren Kiefer]

The cooling coil you are referring to is the evaporator or in the instance of a heat pump it is called an inside coil. The gauge of the coil does not determine its longevity. If the line set has been evacuated properly there will be no acid present in the system thereby negating the porosity of the evaporator. Up selling is the reason for systems bring replaced within 10 years. The typical Florida technician is trained to upsell rather then repair the problem. He receives a commission for his efforts. I am a commercial HVAC professional that knows full well how these guys operate and frankly I find it disturbing and IMHO borderline criminal .

My only comment here is that I know for a fact that several of my close neighbors when having AC problems, it was found the air handler coils had cracked. Probable due to vibrations in the motor. I am now on my second unit, and fourth compressor. Two on each unit. Is it your opinion that the coils found on today's units are as good in quality as the old copper coils of say 40 years ago???

[Papa Cuma]

I would say that nothing mechanical is the same quality as it was 40 years ago. I know of units that are from the late 60's still running the original compressor and blower motor. The machine panels weigh a ton and the electromechanical parts are indestructible as well.

[Papa Cuma]

My only comment here is that I know for a fact that several of my close neighbors when having AC problems, it was found the air handler coils had cracked. Probable due to vibrations in the motor. I am now on my second unit, and fourth compressor. Two on each unit. Is it your opinion that the coils found on today's units are as good in quality as the old copper coils of say 40 years ago???


Let me add this. There are many reasons why a compressor can fail and there are many problems a compressor can have that a tech would condemn it for replacement. For him to say that your compressor needs replacement, ask him why. What exactly is wrong with it ?

[Papa Cuma]

...

[Chellybean]

My comment was not about parts for a 17 year old AC unit. Read my post carefully, my present unit less than 10,years old. Surely you understand AC units are not like automobiles which have model changes every year. AC units of today are virtually the same as they were 40 years ago. A compressor is a compressor is a compressor and is only different in sizes. The only AC parts not usually in stock are compressors and the reason is the cost of over $2000 each.
You are way of base, i have owned my own a/c company for 36 years and i have never heard such nonsense.
a compressor are not all the same and certainly not one from 20 years ago are completely different from today!

[Papa Cuma]

You are way of base, i have owned my own a/c company for 36 years and i have never heard such nonsense.

a compressor are not all the same and certainly not one from 20 years ago are completely different from today!


Notwithstanding variable speed, dual speed piston or scroll there is no discernible difference in compressors from 20 years ago or 50 years ago. Semi-hermetics are semi-hermetics, hermetics are hermetics, scrolls are scrolls etc. I could take a 5 ton new old stock r22 compressor that is 30 years old and install it into a dry filled R22 new condenser and it will work with 0% decrease in efficiency and no effect on longevity. That is a fact.

[DougB]

I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE "THE REST OF THE STORY" WITH YOU. As soon as the problem was found to be the compressor, Ted, from Munns went on a search to find a replacement compressor. Within a few hours, a replacement was found in Ocala. A Munns employee was dispatched to get the new compressor. Munns did not stop there, at 8PM a tech came to my home to install the new compressor. At 10:30PM I had air conditioning again. I cannot praise the Munns company enough for going the extra mile. And the final good news, my extended was still in effect until September 16th. My cost was ZERO !!!!!!!!

That's cool.

[Warren Kiefer]

You are way of base, i have owned my own a/c company for 36 years and i have never heard such nonsense.
a compressor are not all the same and certainly not one from 20 years ago are completely different from today!

Nonsence is OK with me. But I know the basic theory of how a AC unit works has not changed. I have a brother who will argue with almost anyone who expresses an opinion so I am accustomed to such dialogs..

[Warren Kiefer]

Notwithstanding variable speed, dual speed piston or scroll there is no discernible difference in compressors from 20 years ago or 50 years ago. Semi-hermetics are semi-hermetics, hermetics are hermetics, scrolls are scrolls etc. I could take a 5 ton new old stock r22 compressor that is 30 years old and install it into a dry filled R22 new condenser and it will work with 0% decrease in efficiency and no effect on longevity. That is a fact.

Would ypou pass along your opinion to Chellybean ???

[Papa Cuma]

Would ypou pass along your opinion to Chellybean ???


With all respect I'm not here to argue, only to pass along the knowledge of my craft to those who wish to listen and learn.

[NoMoSno]

With all respect I'm not here to argue, only to pass along the knowledge of my craft to those who wish to listen and learn.
The apprentices who have been assigned to me seem to only want to talk on their cell phones or listen to music. They never ask questions, I guess they will absorb through osmosis I presume.

Do you have a recommendation for a good brand of AC/heat pump.
I currently have a 20 year old Rheem that still works, but will need replacing. I thought I would go with another Rheem, however the newer models are not getting very good reviews.

[Papa Cuma]

Reviews are nonsense. ASHRE standards apply to all units manufactured in the United States. Go with the unit that has the highest efficiency ratio and longest warranty. A contractor that will back up that warranty and a technician that has at least 10 years of experience to install it correctly.

[NoMoSno]

Reviews are nonsense. ASHRE standards apply to all units manufactured in the United States. Go with the unit that has the highest efficiency ratio and longest warranty. A contractor that will back up that warranty and a technician that has at least 10 years of experience to install it correctly.

OK, Thanks!

[Papa Cuma]

OK, Thanks!


No problem...

[sunny46]

We have found that the ACs they installed in homes tend to fail in less than the 10 years. Almost everyone around me has replaced theirs this year. We are at the 10 year point. Apparently they bought cheap ones.

[Papa Cuma]

We have found that the ACs they installed in homes tend to fail in less than the 10 years. Almost everyone around me has replaced theirs this year. We are at the 10 year point. Apparently they bought cheap ones.


I don't know who you are referring to but cheaper units do exist that will fail sooner than one would expect. It's not that the units themselves are built any differently than a more expensive one, rather it is the protection control devices that are added onto the unit which will lengthen its life.
A residential central A/C unit is listed as a major appliance and as such has a certain life of 14 years...

[tuccillo]

We have a new home and they installed Carrier "Comfort" series - essentially their lowest cost system. Our previous home had a top-of-the-line Bryant Evolution system (rebranded Carrier Inifinity). While the system performed great, it wasn't exactly reliable. Over the course of 9 years, the following failed

-2 compressors
- condenser fan motor
- weld in condenser coil - was repairable but all R-410a was lost
- evaporator coil
- 2 defrost boards
- start capacitor
- 2 User Interfaces (the "thermostat" is called the User Inteface and it is really a computer)

Fortunately it had a 10-year parts and labor warranty. The Carrier "Comfort" series in our new home can not be any worse. So far, we have had an out-of-balance condenser fan replaced.


We have found that the ACs they installed in homes tend to fail in less than the 10 years. Almost everyone around me has replaced theirs this year. We are at the 10 year point. Apparently they bought cheap ones.