My Prediction: A U.S. "Berlin Wall" of regulations

[Villages PL]

More and more companies are relocating their corporate headquarters to foreign countries to avoid high corporate taxes in the U.S.. An article in today's Daily Sun business section says that Burger King may move to Canada. Other companies have moved to Europe.

I heard on the news that this trend is being studied to see if it can be discouraged, perhaps with new regulations. That's why I predict a "Berlin Wall" of regulations. What was the purpose of the Berlin Wall? To keep people in! Yes, and now we need something similar to keep corporations from trying to escape higher taxes.

Walgreen Co. was considering moving but decided not to because they are afraid of a consumer backlash. Their income tax rate is 37.5%

Why don't we just lower the tax rate for U.S. corporations so they don't have to think about moving. I have heard it said that this will make them more competitive in foreign trade. If they make more money, they might end up paying the same amount of taxes with the lower tax rate.

[Papa Cuma]

We need their tax dollars to pay their employees ObamaCare. Or lower their taxes if they pay their employees a living wage and medical benefits.

[waynet]

look up corporate inversion and then tell me what you think.

[graciegirl]

look up corporate inversion and then tell me what you think.

THANK YOU, Waynet!

After reading this, I say grant them tax relief. We are the highest in percentage of taxes required of similar countries. Our whole economy would improve, more jobs and better insurance benefits.

Tax inversion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_inversion)

[chachacha]

i agree, gracie! seems those making the regulations do not understand simple economics.

[Papa Cuma]

i agree, gracie! seems those making the regulations do not understand simple economics.


Economics is not simple and keeping more profit does not equate into a better corporate citizen.

[graciegirl]

Economics is not simple and keeping more profit does not equate into a better corporate citizen.

Could you explain further?

[Indydealmaker]

A Corporate Citizen is an urban myth. Citizens manage corporations. Citizens are shareholders of corporations. Citizens are employed by corporations. Corporations are not living, breathing beings. If you have a problem with a corporation, you really have the problem with the humans involved.

[swimdawg]

Let's get to the nitty gritty: Don't you fool with my Tim Horton's coffee, BK!
They make a fresh pot every 18 minutes. You can see the timer going and the pot is tossed after 18 minutes. There's always a line to get coffee on my way home from the pool every morning.

No Burger King coffee for me!!!

BUT maybe they can bring Timmy H to TV. Hmmmm!

Did I successfully hi jack this thread? Sorry! :mornincoffee::mornincoffee::mornincoffee:

[Papa Cuma]

A Corporate Citizen is an urban myth. Citizens manage corporations. Citizens are shareholders of corporations. Citizens are employed by corporations. Corporations are not living, breathing beings. If you have a problem with a corporation, you really have the problem with the humans involved.


Your hypothesis is illogical and absurd, lacking any real knowledge or depth.

[Papa Cuma]

http://corporate-citizenship.com/

[Papa Cuma]

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/corporatecitizenship.asp

[Indydealmaker]

Your hypothesis is illogical and absurd, lacking any real knowledge or depth.

I am afraid you do not understand how corporations work. I know how all of my corporations functioned and not once did the corporation itself perform any dis-service to the community. My boards and executives made all decisions that impacted the community.

[Papa Cuma]

I am afraid you do not understand how corporations work. I know how all of my corporations functioned and not once did the corporation itself perform any dis-service to the community. My boards and executives made all decisions that impacted the community.


I spent 19 years at IBM. I know how corporations work. I also know that corporations need to be regulated for the benefit of our communities. Unchecked, a corporation will extract as much work from an employee as it can and pay that individual as little as it can get away with. It will poison our groundwater and waterways, filthy up the air we breathe and give nothing back to the communities other than those that live on the hills. I know intimately about such corporations and how they would function if left to there own devices.

[Papa Cuma]

I am afraid you do not understand how corporations work. I know how all of my corporations functioned and not once did the corporation itself perform any dis-service to the community. My boards and executives made all decisions that impacted the community.


Your boards and executives were working only in there best self interest. The community would have been collateral damage without regulation.

[B767drvr]

Corporate Citizenship: Sustainability, simplified. (http://corporate-citizenship.com/)

Socialist gobbley-gook! :1rotfl:

[graciegirl]

Socialist gobbley-gook! :1rotfl:

I think you are probably right

AND.....

I do know from years of reading this forum that Indy Dealmaker is a reasonable and informed person who is unafraid to tell his real name. I expect to hear intelligent and valid information when his name shows on this Forum and on the online news as well.

[kevmo]

Layering regulations on top of a complex tax code loaded with exemptions and loopholes is a serious concern. Although Corporate tax rates top out at 40%, the average tax paid by Corporations is 12.6% and 1 in 4 pay no taxes. Tax revenue from Corporations today is around 10% of the total, where 50 years ago it accounted for 33% of the total. It is a similar story on the personal side where a recent Presidential candidate paid 13% taxes on $24M income, although the top rate is 39%.
What is needed is a simplified tax code without loopholes and with lower tax rates. If only we had politicians who wanted to fix America's woes and not just focus on getting re-elected.

[CFrance]

Layering regulations on top of a complex tax code loaded with exemptions and loopholes is a serious concern. Although Corporate tax rates top out at 40%, the average tax paid by Corporations is 12.6% and 1 in 4 pay no taxes. Tax revenue from Corporations today is around 10% of the total, where 50 years ago it accounted for 33% of the total. It is a similar story on the personal side where a recent Presidential candidate paid 13% taxes on $24M income, although the top rate is 39%.
What is needed is a simplified tax code without loopholes and with lower tax rates. If only we had politicians who wanted to fix America's woes and not just focus on getting re-elected.
Setting aside the political comment(s), which I wish people would stop inserting in snotty "hit-and-run" fashion, this is a very interesting conversation. I am not against big corporations at all, but do believe they need some level of regulation. I know very little about the taxes they pay.

kevmo, can you provide proof of your information, a link or something? Or can someone else provide proof that the opposite is true?

[Villagesperson]

Layering regulations on top of a complex tax code loaded with exemptions and loopholes is a serious concern. Although Corporate tax rates top out at 40%, the average tax paid by Corporations is 12.6% and 1 in 4 pay no taxes. Tax revenue from Corporations today is around 10% of the total, where 50 years ago it accounted for 33% of the total. It is a similar story on the personal side where a recent Presidential candidate paid 13% taxes on $24M income, although the top rate is 39%.
What is needed is a simplified tax code without loopholes and with lower tax rates. If only we had politicians who wanted to fix America's woes and not just focus on getting re-elected.

Amen. This requires an entire comprehensive tax overhaul, and not a simple fix for current problem.

But guess what we will get....a temporary fix.

[Chi-Town]

Setting aside the political comment(s), which I wish people would stop inserting in snotty "hit-and-run" fashion, this is a very interesting conversation. I am not against big corporations at all, but do believe they need some level of regulation. I know very little about the taxes they pay.

kevmo, can you provide proof of your information, a link or something? Or can someone else provide proof that the opposite is true?

CFrance, here is a link that references the 12.6% rate:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/01/news/economy/corporate-tax-rate/

[CFrance]

CFrance, here is a link that references the 12.6% rate:

GAO: U.S. corporations pay average effective tax rate of 12.6% - Jul. 1, 2013 (http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/01/news/economy/corporate-tax-rate/)
Thanks, Chi-Town. My gut feeling was that this was the case.

[LndLocked]

A Corporate Citizen is an urban myth. Citizens manage corporations. Citizens are shareholders of corporations. Citizens are employed by corporations. Corporations are not living, breathing beings. If you have a problem with a corporation, you really have the problem with the humans involved.

according to the SCOTUS in Citizens United ... they are.

[DaleMN]

Socialist gobbley-gook! :1rotfl:

Proud to be a socialist. :doh:

[cattywampus]

CFrance, here is a link that references the 12.6% rate:

GAO: U.S. corporations pay average effective tax rate of 12.6% - Jul. 1, 2013 (http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/01/news/economy/corporate-tax-rate/)

In my humble opinion, the AVERAGE rate is meaningless.

The only thing that matters is the corporate tax rate of those C Corps
who pay US Corporate rates which substantially exceed the rates available elsewhere.

In my sisters' family there are 5 kids
her kids have an AVERAGE income of over $500,000.00.

BUT only one makes over $ 500,000.00

.. 1,850,000.00 Business Owner
... 280,000.00 Real Estate Sales
... 255,000.00 Petroleum Engineer
.... 85,000.00 Car Salesman
... 140,000.00 Geologist

[graciegirl]

I spent 19 years at IBM. I know how corporations work. I also know that corporations need to be regulated for the benefit of our communities. Unchecked, a corporation will extract as much work from an employee as it can and pay that individual as little as it can get away with. It will poison our groundwater and waterways, filthy up the air we breathe and give nothing back to the communities other than those that live on the hills. I know intimately about such corporations and how they would function if left to there own devices.

Then, is it better for a corporation to extract as little work from an employee as it can, and pay that individual a lot? Usually that makes a corporation not survive.

Many of us(my husband) have worked for corporations for many, many, years because of the benefits and pension plans and steady work...as they say in OHIO. BIG Business is not an enemy. It is the backbone of our economy. Of course there should be regulations but not in such a way to discourage big corporations from coming to an area or staying in this country.. I just heard on the news last night that the state was granting several million dollars worth of help to an airplane manufacturing company that had the potential to bring 600 jobs. I say GOOD. Keeps folks off the dole.

[TexaninVA]

i agree, gracie! seems those making the regulations do not understand simple economics.

I agree as well ... the simple solution is to lower tax rates, attract more companies and enjoy more growth ... which produces higher tax revenues over time with a lower rate.

Collectivist politicians however find it easier to demagogue the issue. The phrase "economic patriotism" is a good example.

[TexaninVA]

I spent 19 years at IBM. I know how corporations work. I also know that corporations need to be regulated for the benefit of our communities. Unchecked, a corporation will extract as much work from an employee as it can and pay that individual as little as it can get away with. It will poison our groundwater and waterways, filthy up the air we breathe and give nothing back to the communities other than those that live on the hills. I know intimately about such corporations and how they would function if left to there own devices.

I've worked for corporations too ... no one is saying they are Boy Scouts but they are efficient. I also don't think IBM is the evil caricature you seem to paint. You may want to chill a bit or share some specifics about your days at IBM to back up the evil doings intimations.

Also I would note, it’s not just corporations … if people writ large were left unchecked it would not be pretty. That’s why we have laws

[Chi-Town]

In my humble opinion, the AVERAGE rate is meaningless.

The only thing that matters is the corporate tax rate of those C Corps
who pay US Corporate rates which substantially exceed the rates available elsewhere.

In my sisters' family there are 5 kids
her kids have an AVERAGE income of over $500,000.00.

BUT only one makes over $ 500,000.00

.. 1,850,000.00 Business Owner
... 280,000.00 Real Estate Sales
... 255,000.00 Petroleum Engineer
.... 85,000.00 Car Salesman
... 140,000.00 Geologist


What gives the Government Accountability Office's study meaning is that unprofitable corporations were excluded. Anyhow, glad to see your sister's kids are doing so well. We need more of them to keep our SS checks coming.[emoji6]

[blueash]

A former treasury secretary has suggested lowering the corporate tax rate to zero. ZERO. The gist of his argument is that as the corporate profit is just a conglomeration of the profit of its shareholders that instead we simply allow that profit to flow to the shareholders and tax it at that time. And that those profits be taxed as income. I used to be a partner in an LLC. It made money but its taxes were zero. The money it made came to me as regular income. If all corporations operated this way then there would be no tax inversions and we would get rid or reduce the government discount on capital gains. If Burger King wants to have its headquarters in Canada, no difference to an American shareholder. Now this also has the benefit of encouraging better care for the corporate employees as shareholders do not derive as great a benefit from taking all the profits themselves and there is no reason to hold cash offshore in a tax avoidance strategy. Keep in mind that every dollar saved by BK is going to have to be made up by people and small businesses that can't benefit from this tax scheme.

"The best way to insure that it's shareholders and owners who actually pay the corporate income tax is to make it a tax on capital gains enjoyed by shareholders and owners rather than a tax on corporate income"

[Rags123]

I've worked for corporations too ... no one is saying they are Boy Scouts but they are efficient. I also don't think IBM is the evil caricature you seem to paint. You may want to chill a bit or share some specifics about your days at IBM to back up the evil doings intimations.

Also I would note, it’s not just corporations … if people writ large were left unchecked it would not be pretty. That’s why we have laws

Do not know much about IBM as a citizen of communities, but found this bit from Nov 2012

"You may have suspected that IBM was the nation’s most community-minded company. Now you have proof. Last week, BloombergBusinessweek published the first-ever Civic 50, a groundbreaking national initiative to identify the 50 companies having the greatest community impact. IBM was ranked No. 1."

- See more at: Why IBM Is America's Most Community-Minded Company | Points of Light (http://www.pointsoflight.org/blog/2012/11/27/why-ibm-americas-most-community-minded-company#sthash.WdBiYNan.dpuf)

[B767drvr]

Keep in mind that every dollar saved by BK is going to have to be made up by people and small businesses that can't benefit from this tax scheme.



Since the US BORROWS $.44 of every dollar spent, no one has to "make up" anything. We'll just borrow more. See how easy that was. <no grin>

How about Buffet wanting everyone to pay more tax, but he's partly funding this deal to avoid US taxes? Any hypocrisy? :shrug:

[allus70]

Yes, we do have the highest corporate tax rate in the world....but, that's only 1/2 the story. Many large companies hire teams of lawyers and CPAs that do nothing but work on ways to reduce taxes. Who gets stuck holding the bag?

Here's a list of 111 of America's largest corporations that pay no taxes at all:

http://ctj.org/corporatetaxdodgers/allzerotaxyears.jpg

What we need is tax reform, for companies and individuals.
Considering the current political climate, what are the chances?


Interesting article....ACA helping to stabilize Medicare

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/upshot/medicare-not-such-a-budget-buster-anymore.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

This is the answer, but the politicians in Washington won't allow it to happen.


home - FairTax.org (http://fairtax.org/)

[TexaninVA]

A former treasury secretary has suggested lowering the corporate tax rate to zero. ZERO. The gist of his argument is that as the corporate profit is just a conglomeration of the profit of its shareholders that instead we simply allow that profit to flow to the shareholders and tax it at that time. And that those profits be taxed as income. I used to be a partner in an LLC. It made money but its taxes were zero. The money it made came to me as regular income. If all corporations operated this way then there would be no tax inversions and we would get rid or reduce the government discount on capital gains. If Burger King wants to have its headquarters in Canada, no difference to an American shareholder. Now this also has the benefit of encouraging better care for the corporate employees as shareholders do not derive as great a benefit from taking all the profits themselves and there is no reason to hold cash offshore in a tax avoidance strategy. Keep in mind that every dollar saved by BK is going to have to be made up by people and small businesses that can't benefit from this tax scheme.

"The best way to insure that it's shareholders and owners who actually pay the corporate income tax is to make it a tax on capital gains enjoyed by shareholders and owners rather than a tax on corporate income"

If I correctly understand what you are proposing, I think it's a very enlightened and creative solution. It's makes economic sense, it grows the economy, and seems like it's win-win .... which is what a successful society is all about.

[Villages PL]

Many large companies hire teams of lawyers and CPAs that do nothing but work on ways to reduce taxes.

Do those teams of lawyers and CPAs work for free or does it represent a big expense for the company?

Do companies get tax breaks for no reason or do they generally have to do something or in return?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

If I correctly understand what you are proposing, I think it's a very enlightened and creative solution. It's makes economic sense, it grows the economy, and seems like it's win-win .... which is what a successful society is all about.

Of course it does. Again, politicians, in an effort to garner votes try to create a bogey man which they will vow to fight against. In this case, it's corporation which they tell us are all evil and don't pay enough in taxes.

What a lot of people don't realize is that corporation don't really pay taxes at all. The money that they pay in taxes is simply collected from the consumers. It is added into the cost of products and services that corporations provide.

The ultimate consumers pays all of the money into the federal government. Everyone else are just middle men.

[Tennisnut]

We need their tax dollars to pay their employees ObamaCare. Or lower their taxes if they pay their employees a living wage and medical benefits.

Fortunately for Canada with their lower corporate taxes, Burger King will now be able to help support the Canadian government run health care. Puzzling, isn't it?

[Cajulian]

I spent 19 years at IBM. I know how corporations work. I also know that corporations need to be regulated for the benefit of our communities. Unchecked, a corporation will extract as much work from an employee as it can and pay that individual as little as it can get away with. It will poison our groundwater and waterways, filthy up the air we breathe and give nothing back to the communities other than those that live on the hills. I know intimately about such corporations and how they would function if left to there own devices.

Papa, please tell us how you intimately know how most corporations operate, when you primarily worked for one very good Corporation, IBM.

You seem to have a disdain for corporate responsibility and accountability. Even though, I believe IBM contributed greatly to our economic technology growth in our country and abroad. They also treated their employees and communities quite well.

Corporate Tax as well as the entire Taxation system in the U.S. is very much in need of Reform to help turn this economy around. It takes profits to reinvest in growth and in turn creates new products, technology, opportunities and results in jobs and a stable and vibrant economy.

We have passed the tipping point in this country, where we have driven away manufacturing, oil exploration, technology development, and now corporate inversions due to over-zealous regulations and taxation. We are our own worst enemy, stifling and smothering all the great attributes the U.S. thrived on for so many years.

When the Capital system works well and our corporations and small businesses make good profits, then the American people have a better opportunity to do well. Granted there will always be people that either through lack of education, skills or other situations don't do as well. But the important point is that, if Companies do well, there is more opportunities for the American people to do well. In a poor economy like what we have now, there is far less opportunity for our citizens. That breeds frustration and unrest in our country and crime shows it's ugly head.

[buggyone]

Big US corporations have been doing very good. Very large profits, huge salaries for CEO's, and very tiny percentages of taxes paid.

Stock market is at record highs. Unemployment is down.

Multi-millionaires pay less percentage in income taxes than middle class citizens.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Big US corporations have been doing very good. Very large profits, huge salaries for CEO's, and very tiny percentages of taxes paid.

Stock market is at record highs. Unemployment is down.

Multi-millionaires pay less percentage in income taxes than middle class citizens.

Who Pays Income Taxes and How Much?

Tax Year 2009

Percentiles Ranked by AGI

Percentage of Federal Personal Income Tax Paid

Top 1% pay 36.73%

Top 5% pay 58.66%

Top 10% pay 70.47%

Top 25% pay 87.30%

Top 50% pay 97.75 %

Bottom 50% pay 2.25%

Note: AGI is Adjusted Gross Income
Source: Internal Revenue Service

How much more would you have them pay?