Unethical Classified Buyer

[shoobee]

I purchased an item on the Talk of the Villages web site. When I contacted the seller to arrange pickup he said that I had already picked it up? What! Turns out that someone, who saw that it had been sold, contacted the seller through his email address, that he had posted on his advertisement, and went to his house and said he was me. Seller never asked for ID. Please do not include your email address in your ad. Let the buyer contact you through the message system provided by Panjo. Item was a utility garage sink. Grrrr.:mad: "AJ"

[redwitch]

The seller could contact the site admin to find who this individual is and at least stop them from pulling such a stunt again. What this cretin did is so wrong on so many levels.

[The Mountaineer]

There is just no end to the way the scammers take advantage of people. Technology has only helped the criminals do their dirty deeds easier. The minority of bad guys make it difficult for the majority of good guys in this world.

[SouthOfTheBorder]

I purchased an item on the Talk of the Villages web site. When I contacted the seller to arrange pickup he said that I had already picked it up? What! Turns out that someone, who saw that it had been sold, contacted the seller through his email address, that he had posted on his advertisement, and went to his house and said he was me. Seller never asked for ID. Please do not include your email address in your ad. Let the buyer contact you through the message system provided by Panjo. Item was a utility garage sink. Grrrr.:mad: "AJ"


Bummer…..

When you describe this as "purchasing an item" does that mean you paid for the item in advance of picking it up?

How did this "fake buyer" know who you (the real buyer) are? Did the fake buyer use your name?

How much time expired from your purchase to when you contacted the seller to pick it up?

What responsibility, if any, is the seller accepting for "giving the item" to the wrong person?

Thanks, just trying to understand the risks you are describing.

Don

[shoobee]

I did not pay for it in advance.
He did not know me, but the seller asked if the thief was Mr. XXXXX meaning me.
I contacted the seller within a few hours.asking for the arrangements for pick up and payment.. Someone saw the sold sink, saw the seller's email address and contacted him.
Seller and I went back and forth.
I don't know the seller's name.
Funny in a way. I asked how to get it and he keeps saying I already bought it. Oh, well..posted this to try and help other people out. thanks for asking the great questions.

[Lauren Sweeny]

I had similar experience. Saw ad for framed picture in Panjo ,I wanted it so hit I am buying . Panjo stated I was purchaser and seller would be contacting me. Waited to hear from seller. Left e mail message that I wanted to come pay and get it. Finally ended up calling seller who told me it was sold. I said yes I had made offer to buy it. Well long story short I did not get the picture. Use the old saying
" Buyer beware!"

[rubicon]

If the transaction actually happened as the OP understands it then the interloper is indeed unethical If however, the seller misrepresented his role in this transaction then they are both unethical

[renielarson]

These situations should not be happening and am disappointed the administrators did not sign up with a trusted and secure company. I will no longer view the classifieds on this site.

[redwitch]

These situations should not be happening and am disappointed the administrators did not sign up with a trusted and secure company. I will no longer view the classifieds on this site.

This was not Panjo's fault. It was that the seller also included an email address and someone else contacted the seller via email and allegedly pretended to be the Panjo purchaser. It either occurred exactly as stated by OP or the seller got a better offer and took it. If the former, then the actual purchaser of the sink has no morals or ethics. At the very least, this person should be banned from TOTV. If the seller and purchaser colluded, then both should be ashamed of themselves and seller should be prohibited from selling here again. To blame Panjo is not fair.

[circletrack]

Did the person that picked up the sink pay for it? If so, that's certainly underhanded and unethical, but I guess not outright stealing.

Sometimes when things like this happen I sit back, take a deep breath and say "well this person must have really needed it more than me."

[kevmo]

My recent experience as a Buyer suggests that there is confusion on the Seller side. I saw an item I wanted, hit BUY NOW, and then completed next screen to enter contact info and agree to Panjo terms. I then hit COMMIT TO BUY. The Seller contacted me about an hour later when he saw the email that I had purchased the item. He asked if I had paid for it through Pay Pal, etc. I said no, but I had agreed to the terms to follow through and buy the item. He suggested I should come over soon to buy/pick-up since someone else was coming in an hour to see it and probably buy it.
Another Panjo add I saw, the Seller specifically stated do NOT hit BUY NOW and to call since it may already have been sold.
I do not think there is a scam going on with the Classifieds, but Panjo needs to tighten-up the process and educate the sellers.

[Irishmen]

If no cash exchanged hands, then no scam. If I was a seller, bird in the hand than in 2 in the bush. First come first served. Early bird gets the worm.

[shoobee]

It is stealing. I agreed to buy it. Seller agreed to sell it to "ME". Typical comment of today's society "First come, first served". Now I understand the screen name!

[graciegirl]

The title has been changed . All is well.

[buggyone]

I feel as though the person selling was not wrong in selling to the person who showed up with money. If the OP had already paid for it, it would then be stealing. This was definitely unethical of the buyer but not illrgal.

It is totally wrong to call Panjo a scam. The OP was not scammed at all.

[TOTV Team]

These situations should not be happening and am disappointed the administrators did not sign up with a trusted and secure company. I will no longer view the classifieds on this site.

Please re-read the original posters post. It has NOTHING to do with the software we are using on TOTV called Panjo.

[Proscoe]

The same thing happened to me. However, after talking to the seller, I realized that the seller had not seen my response to "Buy Now" and was responding to another person who wanted the item at the same time.

In the end no harm no foul. Just a little disappoint. :icon_wink:

[kevmo]

Technically there may not be anything wrong with the SOFTWARE, but there is a problem with Panjo's use of an eBay-like method to Buy It Now. If hitting that button and completing the follow-up screen to agree to the terms to Commit To Buy carry no weight, then they should be removed and purchase should be through direct contact with the Seller.

[rubicon]

My preference was to skip classified ads and I also wish I could opt out of items for sale most of which i don't need and some of which I own and give to a charity or a neighbor etc. i am in the liquidation phase of my life

[onslowe]

If no cash exchanged hands, then no scam. If I was a seller, bird in the hand than in 2 in the bush. First come first served. Early bird gets the worm.

I hope that post is a joke. I'm of proud Irish parentage but choose not to be a 24-7 professional Irishman. However, I will take quick issue with a very callous and anti-social comment which somehow links those words to an "Irishman."

Slainte.

[shoobee]

Thank you onslowe. Enough said. Also, I understand that TOTV is not connected to the developer. Just trying to be helpful to anyone that buys on here.
One subject, many remarks....

[PANJO]

Chad here from the team at Panjo. Thank you for sharing these situations with us. It helps us identify opportunities to benefit and protect buyers and sellers. I thought this conversation might be aided by some statistics.

When a seller creates a listing, the seller indicates whether s/he wants to "collect payment on his/her own" or offer a Buy Now button with payment processing.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44556&stc=1&d=1409335271

Depending on the selections made by the seller, the listing seen by the buyer gets a different "Buy Now" button. Here are some different flavors of the "Buy Now" button.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44557&stc=1&d=1409335356

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44558&stc=1&d=1409335356

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44559&stc=1&d=1409335356

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44560&stc=1&d=1409335356

Since Talk Of The Villages started using the Panjo software to power the classifieds, sellers have listed 3,700 items for sale. Sellers offered the integrated secure payment option on 226 (6%) of those listings. This means that most listing have a "Buy Now" button that has a very low barrier for buyers to complete. A buyer simply needs to submit some contact info. This means buyers can easily bail. It also means that the seller doesn't have money in hand when all a buyer has done is submit contact info. This low commitment leads to "breakage," the situation where the transaction falls apart.

We are thrilled to report that sellers have sold 1,758 of the 3,700 listings. That equates to a healthy 48% sell through rate. Of the sold items, buyers used the "Buy Now" button 254 times (15% of the time). Buyers and sellers negotiated over private message or in person 1,415 times (81% of the time). And sellers sold items listed on this site to buyers they found through other means (eBay, Craigslist) 89 times (4% of the time).

Given the data above, in this community, there is a reasonable possibility that there would be a delay between a seller completing a transaction the seller getting back to the web site to mark an item as sold. Thus, just because a buyer sees an item listed for sale on the site doesn't guarantee that it is available. And, just because you click the "buy now" button doesn't mean the item belongs to you. However, Panjo uses best efforts to make it easier than ever for sellers to keep their listings update including a regular email reminder to help remind sellers of all their Talk Of The Villages listings.

Given the nature of the community, we are looking at features we can provide to help reduce friction and frustration on the buyer and seller side. In the meantime:

Sellers: Please consider using the integrated payment processing "Buy Now" button. That will reduce the number of buyers who click "buy now" with the assumption the item now belongs to them. Please also try to update your listings as soon as possible after an 'offline' sale.

Buyers: Please know that it is the nature of online, local classifieds that items you see may not be available. When a buyer walks over to a sellers house to pick up an item, that action doesn't update the listing ;-) We'll do our part at Panjo to try to make it as convenient as possible for sellers to keep their listings updated to improve the experience for everyone.

Thanks again for all the feedback. We look forward to updating the marketplace with lots of new features in the coming weeks based on your input.

Chad
1 (424) 272-0291

[NotGolfer]

Along these same lines, I've seen garage sale ads with the beginning times etc., with a partial list of items. When we were moving here we wanted to furnish our house so went to the address where folks were already lining up for the "big event". Just before the "open time" the seller comes out to say...oh I sold all that stuff last night to someone who came and paid cash for it! NOW that too was disappointing! I know it's just stuff and there's always another item somewhere but when folks become under-handed it's not a fair thing to happen.

[rubicon]

Well selling something right under you is not new it dates back before Noah'. In fact many people are unaware of this but Noah did not build that ark, Jacobin did and tried to sell it right under Noah eyes to Benjamin but Noah stood his ground because he knew soon there would be no ground and the rest as they say is history:icon_wink:

[Indydealmaker]

Chad here from the team at Panjo. Thank you for sharing these situations with us. It helps us identify opportunities to benefit and protect buyers and sellers. I thought this conversation might be aided by some statistics.

When a seller creates a listing, the seller indicates whether s/he wants to "collect payment on his/her own" or offer a Buy Now button with payment processing.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44556&stc=1&d=1409335271

Depending on the selections made by the seller, the listing seen by the buyer gets a different "Buy Now" button. Here are some different flavors of the "Buy Now" button.

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44557&stc=1&d=1409335356

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44558&stc=1&d=1409335356

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44559&stc=1&d=1409335356

https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=44560&stc=1&d=1409335356

Since Talk Of The Villages started using the Panjo software to power the classifieds, sellers have listed 3,700 items for sale. Sellers offered the integrated secure payment option on 226 (6%) of those listings. This means that most listing have a "Buy Now" button that has a very low barrier for buyers to complete. A buyer simply needs to submit some contact info. This means buyers can easily bail. It also means that the seller doesn't have money in hand when all a buyer has done is submit contact info. This low commitment leads to "breakage," the situation where the transaction falls apart.

We are thrilled to report that sellers have sold 1,758 of the 3,700 listings. That equates to a healthy 48% sell through rate. Of the sold items, buyers used the "Buy Now" button 254 times (15% of the time). Buyers and sellers negotiated over private message or in person 1,415 times (81% of the time). And sellers sold items listed on this site to buyers they found through other means (eBay, Craigslist) 89 times (4% of the time).

Given the data above, in this community, there is a reasonable possibility that there would be a delay between a seller completing a transaction the seller getting back to the web site to mark an item as sold. Thus, just because a buyer sees an item listed for sale on the site doesn't guarantee that it is available. And, just because you click the "buy now" button doesn't mean the item belongs to you. However, Panjo uses best efforts to make it easier than ever for sellers to keep their listings update including a regular email reminder to help remind sellers of all their Talk Of The Villages listings.

Given the nature of the community, we are looking at features we can provide to help reduce friction and frustration on the buyer and seller side. In the meantime:

Sellers: Please consider using the integrated payment processing "Buy Now" button. That will reduce the number of buyers who click "buy now" with the assumption the item now belongs to them. Please also try to update your listings as soon as possible after an 'offline' sale.

Buyers: Please know that it is the nature of online, local classifieds that items you see may not be available. When a buyer walks over to a sellers house to pick up an item, that action doesn't update the listing ;-) We'll do our part at Panjo to try to make it as convenient as possible for sellers to keep their listings updated to improve the experience for everyone.

Thanks again for all the feedback. We look forward to updating the marketplace with lots of new features in the coming weeks based on your input.

Chad
1 (424) 272-0291

The problem with this transition is a lack of understanding on the part of the Admin and Panjo as to their users computer skills.

Sellers had been used to being contacted by prospective buyers via a response in the Seller's Thread or by phone or personal email. Now they need to be schooled to QUIT LISTING THEIR CONTACT INFO IN THE AD.

Buyers need to be clearly and dramatically told that the ONLY WAY TO BUY is to click on the Buy Now button.

The confusion is the result of one buyer using the Buy Now feature and another contacting the seller directly at the same time.

I have had two transactions screwed up this way. I am not a novice to shopping via auctions, craigslist and ebay, so I understand the flow of the deal. However, your target market does not fully understand. The instructions as to the correct protocol need to be integrated into the pages during the transaction, on the part of both Buyer and Seller.

Another "fly in the ointment" is the previous method did not require the Seller to monitor their email. This new approach requires that as part of the process. Many, many of your target market DO NOT MONITOR their email on a weekly basis, let alone a daily basis.

[rubicon]

The problem with this transition is a lack of understanding on the part of the Admin and Panjo as to their users computer skills.

Sellers had been used to being contacted by prospective buyers via a response in the Seller's Thread or by phone or personal email. Now they need to be schooled to QUIT LISTING THEIR CONTACT INFO IN THE AD.

Buyers need to be clearly and dramatically told that the ONLY WAY TO BUY is to click on the Buy Now button.

The confusion is the result of one buyer using the Buy Now feature and another contacting the seller directly at the same time.

I have had two transactions screwed up this way. I am not a novice to shopping via auctions, craigslist and ebay, so I understand the flow of the deal. However, your target market does not fully understand. The instructions as to the correct protocol need to be integrated into the pages during the transaction, on the part of both Buyer and Seller.

Another "fly in the ointment" is the previous method did not require the Seller to monitor their email. This new approach requires that as part of the process. Many, many of your target market DO NOT MONITOR their email on a weekly basis, let alone a daily basis.

Steve: You could have sold that information to Panjo and picked up a few bucks. You still can press them to be their consultant

[KeepingItReal]

Well selling something right under you is not new it dates back before Noah'. In fact many people are unaware of this but Noah did not build that ark, Jacobin did and tried to sell it right under Noah eyes to Benjamin but Noah stood his ground because he knew soon there would be no ground and the rest as they say is history:icon_wink:

Uh! What??

:confused:

[redwitch]

Back to the original issue-- the purchaser of the sink allegedly pretended to be the OP. How do we protect against that? It is one thing for a seller to get two or more offers and sell it to the highest or first bidder, it is another for someone to pretend to be someone else to get the item. Of course, there is the distinct possibility that the truth is the seller sold it to the first person to come get the sink, not caring that a commitment had been made to another. How can the purchaser be protected from that happening? There is no way I would pay online since I couldn't guarantee that I would ultimately own the item given this like this happening.

[sailor47]

Sorry but I believe the first person to show up with cash in hand gets the item.

Why, because many people see an item and may committe to by over the internet. Then when they show up to buy they may find something they didn't like and walk away from the deal.

I don't really know and no one does, if the buyer actually said he was someone he wasn't but as a seller what would you do. Turn down a buyer with cash in hand or hold out for a committed buyer pver the internet that could easily walk away without actually buying the item.

I have had this happen on craigs list. A buyer says I want it a check is in the mail. Guess what no check. He changed his mind.

Noting is guarantted, especially transaction over the internet. You have to meet face to face.

[Mikeod]

Sorry but I believe the first person to show up with cash in hand gets the item.

Why, because many people see an item and may committe to by over the internet. Then when they show up to buy they may find something they didn't like and walk away from the deal.

I don't really know and no one does, if the buyer actually said he was someone he wasn't but as a seller what would you do. Turn down a buyer with cash in hand or hold out for a committed buyer pver the internet that could easily walk away without actually buying the item.

I have had this happen on craigs list. A buyer says I want it a check is in the mail. Guess what no check. He changed his mind.

Noting is guarantted, especially transaction over the internet. You have to meet face to face.
So, if I see something you are selling on TOTV/Panjo and select Buy Now, then contact you and agree on a time to meet, the article may or may not be there when I arrive? If the situation were reversed, you'd be fine with it?

[fl boomer]

I recently listed 4 pictures for sale, and rec'd 2 - 3 private messages from a person who was interested in buying them. Their last PM was that they would think about it. On Thursday, my phone rang, & it was someone interested in buying my pictures. We set up a time, I gave directions to my house, & they showed up an hour later & purchased 3 of them. They only gave me their first names & it wasn't until they arrived that I asked him if he had PM me. He said he wasn't sure, but might have. I don't believe he was the same person who private messaged me, and I feel that you can often get inquiries via phone, email, or PM about your items for sale, and not really know who is going to show up at your door first to purchase them. People are reluctant to give their full names, and the seller may have thought he was talking to the same person when he wasn't.

[peachpit]

Are there really 1196 items for sale? It has been my experience that the sold items are never removed from the site.

[Indydealmaker]

I recently listed 4 pictures for sale, and rec'd 2 - 3 private messages from a person who was interested in buying them. Their last PM was that they would think about it. On Thursday, my phone rang, & it was someone interested in buying my pictures. We set up a time, I gave directions to my house, & they showed up an hour later & purchased 3 of them. They only gave me their first names & it wasn't until they arrived that I asked him if he had PM me. He said he wasn't sure, but might have. I don't believe he was the same person who private messaged me, and I feel that you can often get inquiries via phone, email, or PM about your items for sale, and not really know who is going to show up at your door first to purchase them. People are reluctant to give their full names, and the seller may have thought he was talking to the same person when he wasn't.

You are no longer supposed to put contact info in your ads. If someone wants to contact you by PM, let them know that if they want to buy, they should go back to the ad and click Buy Now. That takes it off of the market.

This is not supposed to be a similar process as the "old days".

[Indydealmaker]

Are there really 1196 items for sale? It has been my experience that the sold items are never removed from the site.

Now that software controls the process, Sold items are either marked sold or come completely off the site. What I do not now know is whether items "for sale" expire and are removed after 30 days as they used to be.

[Vladimir]

Here is the problem I now have with buying items on Panjo and clicking the Buy Now button. Many of the ads do not have enough details like age of item, condition, size, etc. so I liked the fact that in the past I and others could further post questions and qualify the items before buying - I don't see a narrative anymore. With Panjo I still want to be able to contact the seller, see the item, and then buy it so I like to see contact info. Oh another thing about Panjo...the ad does not show the date it was listed so it is hard to determine how old the ad is when browsing to buy.

[Indydealmaker]

Here is the problem I now have with buying items on Panjo and clicking the Buy Now button. Many of the ads do not have enough details like age of item, condition, size, etc. so I liked the fact that in the past I and others could further post questions and qualify the items before buying - I don't see a narrative anymore. With Panjo I still want to be able to contact the seller, see the item, and then buy it so I like to see contact info. Oh another thing about Panjo...the ad does not show the date it was listed so it is hard to determine how old the ad is when browsing to buy.

There is a button to push on the ad to send the seller a message.

Showing the date is a good idea!