High-Protein diet

[Villages PL]

In todays Daily Sun on page D5: Controversial high-protein diet...

Here's another author trying to make his fortune selling a high-protein diet. And, like the other authors, he goes back to what was being done in the 60s to prove his point. The problem with that is he cherry-picks examples of public behavior to prove his point. If there's any behavior that doesn't prove his point, he just ignores it, as if it didn't exist.

Having said that, I think his answer to the second question was somewhat well reasoned. He sees refined grains and sugars as the cause of disease, and later in the article he includes all forms of "junk-food."

He's not against a "carb-rich" diet or any diet that properly controls insulin levels.

Here's a statement he made that I see as his main reason for recommending this diet: "...those who are predisposed to obesity or diabetes...might be healthier on a diet that replaces carbohydrates with mostly fats."

Notice he used the word "healthier". Obviously, there can be a big difference between "healthy" and "healthier." So what he's saying is that his diet recommendation can be better under certain circumstances.

I'll tell you from my observations what those circumstances are: Many overweight and obese people "hate" fresh fruit, non-starchy vegetables, whole grains and legumes. Not everyone is the same so there may be exceptions. but, basically, that's what it's all about.

[Villages PL]

In todays Daily Sun on page D5: Controversial high-protein diet...

Here's another author trying to make his fortune selling a high-protein diet. And, like the other authors, he goes back to what was being done in the 60s to prove his point. The problem with that is he cherry-picks examples of public behavior to prove his point. If there's any behavior that doesn't prove his point, he just ignores it, as if it didn't exist.

Having said that, I think his answer to the second question was somewhat well reasoned. He sees refined grains and sugars as the cause of disease, and later in the article he includes all forms of "junk-food."

He's not against a "carb-rich" diet or any diet that properly controls insulin levels.

Here's a statement he made that I see as his main reason for recommending this diet: "...those who are predisposed to obesity or diabetes...might be healthier on a diet that replaces carbohydrates with mostly fats."

Notice he used the word "healthier". Obviously, there can be a big difference between "healthy" and "healthier." So what he's saying is that his diet recommendation can be better under certain circumstances.

I'll tell you from my observations what those circumstances are: Many overweight and obese people "hate" fresh fruit, non-starchy vegetables, whole grains and legumes. Not everyone is the same so there may be exceptions. but, basically, that's what it's all about.

I forgot to include my bottom line:

His diet plan, in my opinion, is far from being healthy but "might be healthier" for those described above.

I give this author credit for at least being honest and not claiming that his diet is the healthiest way to eat - it's not. And I don't begrudge any overweight or obese person wanting to give it a try, especially if they haven't been successful after trying other diets. For those who hate non-starchy vegetables and fruit etc., you do what you can to lose weight.

[PR1234]

Not in TV right now, who was the author? Not sure many are suggesting to eat high protein, but there are a lot of Dr's/authors going with the LCHF (low carb high fat) Ketogenic diet right now.

[graciegirl]

What is your opinion of exercise, VPL? What is too much, what is too little and what is just about right?

[rubicon]

When addressing diet please be more definitive of your target audience.
It would seem to me as we age we need adequate nutrition so the suggestion of a diet could well place some seniors in danger. More senior are harmed because of that fact. Heck if one ignores all of what experts tell them was wrong what good is it for a senior to start up at this late date...the damage, if any is done. and just how much more of life and quality of life will I get with their suggestions?

Experts advise is cyclical up and down down and up

[Villages PL]

Not in TV right now, who was the author? Not sure many are suggesting to eat high protein, but there are a lot of Dr's/authors going with the LCHF (low carb high fat) Ketogenic diet right now.

His name is Gary Taubes and the article states: "....[he] concluded that a diet high in animal protein and fat was a better way to lose weight."

He had a degree in physics and was working on a master's degree when he decided on a different career and subsequently earned a master's degree in journalism.

[Villages PL]

What is your opinion of exercise, VPL? What is too much, what is too little and what is just about right?

The first guidelines I read about came from the author of the Zone books. That was a long time ago but I don't think anything has changed much since that time. If I remember correctly, he put the limit at about 45 minutes to one hour of working out at the gym. I suppose that would consist of doing a little of everything from warming up to cooling down. He said too much exercise could create stress hormones (cortisol) which would likely counteract the benefits of the workout.

I believe his books were written mostly with the assumption that many of his readers were looking to lose weight. So, if someone is already lean or thin, I don't think they need to be working out vigorously for the amount of time stated above.

Too little, in my opinion, would be if someone spends all of their day, or most of their day, sitting. Anything is better than nothing, as they say. Yard work, housework, cooking, going for a walk. Work out with some hand weights for 15 or 20 minutes at home.

What's just about right is whatever an individual is capable of without going overboard on the vigorous part. More is not always better.

[Villages PL]

When addressing diet please be more definitive of your target audience.

My target audience is anyone who reads Talk-of-The-Villages Forums and, in particular, anyone who's interested in health issues as related to high protein diets.


It would seem to me as we age we need adequate nutrition so the suggestion of a diet could well place some seniors in danger. More senior are harmed because of that fact.

It depends on what age you're talking about when you say, "as we age." And it depends on the health status of the individual. The author that was interviewed for the article didn't specify any certain age. In the article, and in his two books, he gives his opinion on what he thinks is the best way to lose weight.


Heck if one ignores all of what experts tell them was wrong what good is it for a senior to start up at this late date...the damage, if any is done. and just how much more of life and quality of life will I get with their suggestions?

I don't think this article, written by a McClatchy-Tribune reporter, was written exclusively for a retirement community such as The Villages. I assume that people of all ages are reading it, even in The Villages.

Experts advise is cyclical up and down down and up

As far as I know, the author doesn't claim to be an expert. He has a degree in physics and journalism. Basically, it seems he's following the same model as set forth by doctors
such as Atkins.

[Barefoot]

Experts advise is cyclical up and down down and up

Exactly Rubicon, I agree.
"Experts" are always changing their minds about what is healthy and what is recommended.
And the authors of books write them to make a profit, and try to differentiate themselves by coming up with "startling new information".
By now, most of us know the healthy way to eat and exercise.
And if we choose not to strictly adhere to a plan that we feel is healthy, who knows the impact?
After all, "experts" say we can add years to our health by having a pet or maintaining a circle of supportive relationships.

[PR1234]

Gary Taubes is very well know in the Low Carb High Fat community. He is a journalist and did a lot of research on the subject. Check out this video of a lecture he did on his books.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDneyrETR2o

Also, check out the new book Keto Clarity by Jimmy Moore and Eric Westman, MD. Number one on Amazon health right now.

Personally I think it is a great way to eat, but I realize it is not for everyone.

[PR1234]

Exactly Rubicon, I agree.
"Experts" are always changing their minds about what is healthy and what is recommended.
And the authors of books write them to make a profit, and try to differentiate themselves by coming up with "startling new information".
By now, most of us know the healthy way to eat and exercise.
And if we choose not to strictly adhere to a plan that we feel is healthy, who knows the impact?
After all, "experts" say we can add years to our health by having a pet or maintaining a circle of supportive relationships.

With all due respect I don't think (all) authors are writing these books to make a profit. I have heard over and over from very well respected Dr.'s and nutritionists, that nutrition is CONSTANTLY changing and we should be open to different ways of evolving.

I for one know for sure, for me....I cannot eat any Gluten. I think the way our food is processed and environmental factors have really taken its toll on what we Americans eat.

I do agree though with your statement "And if we choose not to strictly adhere to a plan that we feel is healthy, who knows the impact?" What the mind believes, the body will achieve for sure!

[QueenBee1]

I totally Agree, I started eating this way 7 months ago, but not to lose weight but for health, in the last 7 months I am off all meds, also all my joint and muscle pain is gone and I have lost 22 pounds as a bonus, I feel better at 63 than I did 20 years ago, but I realize we do have to all do what works for us.

[Villages PL]

Exactly Rubicon, I agree.
"Experts" are always changing their minds about what is healthy and what is recommended.

Here's my opinion: The confusion is because many people don't know how science works and especially don't know enough about the science of nutrition. And those who are "anti-health" don't really care to learn. So those people may be hopelessly lost and sometimes appear to revel in it. Learning, to them, means they might have to give up some of their addictions.

By now, most of us know the healthy way to eat and exercise.

How do you know what everyone else knows?

And if we choose not to strictly adhere to a plan that we feel is healthy, who knows the impact?

Two thirds of the population who are overweight or obese know what the impact is. Those who are overweight and have diabetes know. Those who are overweight and have high blood pressure or high cholesterol know. Enough, you get the idea.

[Villages PL]

Gary Taubes is very well know in the Low Carb High Fat community. He is a journalist and did a lot of research on the subject. Check out this video of a lecture he did on his books.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDneyrETR2o

Also, check out the new book Keto Clarity by Jimmy Moore and Eric Westman, MD. Number one on Amazon health right now.

Personally I think it is a great way to eat, but I realize it is not for everyone.

Why do you think it's a great way to eat? For weight loss? How long have you been practicing this way of eating?

[Villages PL]

I totally Agree, I started eating this way 7 months ago, but not to lose weight but for health, in the last 7 months I am off all meds, also all my joint and muscle pain is gone and I have lost 22 pounds as a bonus, I feel better at 63 than I did 20 years ago, but I realize we do have to all do what works for us.

For the sake of learning, can you tell us what the meds were for? I would think diabetes.

[QueenBee1]

The meds were for HBP and Statins both are now at great levels, I started eating this way because I was having horrible joint and muscle pain and thought I would give this a try, and within 2 weeks all my pain went away. I am basically a healthy person with a BMI of 23 that is trying to live my retirement as pain free as possible and this HFLC and medium protein life style works for me. I actually love this way of eating.

[NotGolfer]

I have to post here as well. I can't have gluten either (did you know it's in most processed foods...sometimes "hidden"?) as I'm highly sensitive to it. I've been eating this was for almost 2 years and have never felt better. I too have "lost" medications or decreased some as well. My A1c has come into normal range, my BP is perfect, my thyroid is with-in "normal" range. I've lost weight (working on losing more). Brain-fog is gone (some of this is due to auto-immune issues and the meds I have to take for them, pain is gone or has decreased depending on what the cause is. It's a process! Most folks don't research what is best for them.....they just eat what they like and continue on. I wouldn't diss something if you haven't done it. I read that article and was encouraged as it corraborated the way of eating I'm on.

I agree, the scientists keep changing their theories....this however isn't a theory who so many folks I know are doing it with wonderful results. Health-care providers are saying "whatever you're doing, keep it up!"

[PR1234]

Why do you think it's a great way to eat? For weight loss? How long have you been practicing this way of eating?

I've done this WOE (way of eating) for maybe 3 years give or take. It is not easy at first for sure, and there are times when I just have to have that piece of pizza or cake (oh and that pesky Villages movie popcorn;-). The truth is, if you take the time and planning you can make substitutes for anything you want! Most days I try to stay below 20 carbs.

For me it started out as weight loss, then after doing so much research I decided regardless if I lost or not I felt great, was never hungry, got rid of acne and rosacia.... and also got rid of most of my allergies.

I am also on several FB groups that have thousands of people on them that have used this WOE not only for weight loss, but diabetes,cancer,epilepsy and many other things.

It's something that you have to research for yourself to see if it could work. Begin with the book I recommended earlier, Keto Clarity by Jimmy Moore and Eric Westman MD. It is a very simple and straightforward type of book to help give you some answers. Also, Maria Emmerich has some great books and cook books.

Other good books although not specifically LCHF books, but they do lead to a better understanding of what we are eating is NOT working. Wheat Belly by Willam Davis and Grain Brain by David Perlmutter MD.

It's been a long journey and I don't expect 'most' people to embrace it the first time they hear about it. After all since the 70's, we have been trained to believe FAT is NOT good:-(

[QueenBee1]

That's Great! My Doctor says the same thing, keep doing what you are doing! There is a lot of us out there doing this because it works!

[Barefoot]

***

[PR1234]

Great explanation how this whole 'fat is bad, causes high cholesterol MYTH' came to be.

The science of saturated fat: A big fat surprise about nutrition? - Features - Health & Families - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/the-science-of-saturated-fat-a-big-fat-surprise-about-nutrition-9692121.html)

[NotGolfer]

I've done this WOE (way of eating) for maybe 3 years give or take. It is not easy at first for sure, and there are times when I just have to have that piece of pizza or cake (oh and that pesky Villages movie popcorn;-). The truth is, if you take the time and planning you can make substitutes for anything you want! Most days I try to stay below 20 carbs.

For me it started out as weight loss, then after doing so much research I decided regardless if I lost or not I felt great, was never hungry, got rid of acne and rosacia.... and also got rid of most of my allergies.

I am also on several FB groups that have thousands of people on them that have used this WOE not only for weight loss, but diabetes,cancer,epilepsy and many other things.

It's something that you have to research for yourself to see if it could work. Begin with the book I recommended earlier, Keto Clarity by Jimmy Moore and Eric Westman MD. It is a very simple and straightforward type of book to help give you some answers. Also, Maria Emmerich has some great books and cook books.

Other good books although not specifically LCHF books, but they do lead to a better understanding of what we are eating is NOT working. Wheat Belly by Willam Davis and Grain Brain by David Perlmutter MD.

It's been a long journey and I don't expect 'most' people to embrace it the first time they hear about it. After all since the 70's, we have been trained to believe FAT is NOT good:-(

I agree that it's a journey! I think you and I are on the same "wave-length" here. I began with Wheat Belly, went to Grain Brain now am on the 7 Principles of Fat Burning by Eric Westman and son will be starting The Cholesterol Myth by Jimmy Moore. I'm finding that while this woe isn't easy...it definately is simple AND a mind-set. Our culture surrounds us with food...it's a way we connect with people AND we're unudated with commercials (foods) and of course all of the restaurants. We definately "are" what we eat!!

[Villages PL]

The meds were for HBP and Statins both are now at great levels, I started eating this way because I was having horrible joint and muscle pain and thought I would give this a try, and within 2 weeks all my pain went away. I am basically a healthy person with a BMI of 23 that is trying to live my retirement as pain free as possible and this HFLC and medium protein life style works for me. I actually love this way of eating.

Good for you! I find it surprising. He recommends high protein, high fat and to cut out as much "junk food" as possible. So what do you think made it a success. The high-fat protein part or the fact that you cut out "junk food"? Or, a combination of everything?

[Villages PL]

I've done this WOE (way of eating) for maybe 3 years give or take. It is not easy at first for sure, and there are times when I just have to have that piece of pizza or cake (oh and that pesky Villages movie popcorn;-). The truth is, if you take the time and planning you can make substitutes for anything you want! Most days I try to stay below 20 carbs.

For me it started out as weight loss, then after doing so much research I decided regardless if I lost or not I felt great, was never hungry, got rid of acne and rosacia.... and also got rid of most of my allergies.

I am also on several FB groups that have thousands of people on them that have used this WOE not only for weight loss, but diabetes,cancer,epilepsy and many other things.

It's something that you have to research for yourself to see if it could work. Begin with the book I recommended earlier, Keto Clarity by Jimmy Moore and Eric Westman MD. It is a very simple and straightforward type of book to help give you some answers. Also, Maria Emmerich has some great books and cook books.

Other good books although not specifically LCHF books, but they do lead to a better understanding of what we are eating is NOT working. Wheat Belly by Willam Davis and Grain Brain by David Perlmutter MD.

It's been a long journey and I don't expect 'most' people to embrace it the first time they hear about it. After all since the 70's, we have been trained to believe FAT is NOT good:-(

I'm not overweight (BMI 18) and I seem to be healthy on any diet I try. I went from the Zone regimen to the blood type diet, then Paleo and now vegan. So I already have done a lot of research.

You might wonder what I was looking for. Over the years I was searching for the most ideal diet that would provide for the lowest cancer risk possible. What changed my life was when I found and read the following book. "The China Study" by T. Colin Campbell. In his book the author explains why animal protein promotes cancer. Obviously, causing and promoting are two different things but he explains everything in detail. He wrote the book after a lifetime of research. And the China study was a large long-term study.

I did read Wheat Belly and read some of Grain Brain but was not as impressed. I don't recall reading anything to suggest that they had any large long-term study to back up their claims.

There's the Seventh Day Adventist study of vegetarians who have an average life span of 88. Then there's the Okinawan study and they live longer and healthier than the average American. And The China Study. So there are many large long-term studies that point to better health and longevity with either low protein or even no animal protein.

If someone has celiac disease I can understand why they would need to eliminate certain grains. But where are the large long-term studies showing that a high-fat, high-protein diet is good for health and longevity?

I believe the standard American diet consists of high protein and the average American is not healthy in their older years. Although their life span isn't bad because of medical procedures. But their overall quality of life is generally poor in their later years, at least compared to the other groups I mentioned.

[PR1234]

I don't agree with 'High' protein either. For me too much protein just turns to sugar. I try to eat a Ketogenic diet which is high fat,moderate protein and low carbs. Again, one of the best books to explain this WOE is Keto Clarity by Jimmy Morre and Eric C. Westman, MD. It will then lead you to read Cholesterol Clarity by the same.

[Villages PL]

I have found many sources that claim a high fat diet will raise the risk of having a stroke. One source that I consider to be reliable is the book, "Food Your Miracle Medicine", by Jean Carper.

Another source is the Journal of the American Medical Association. They claim that a high fat diet causes 300,000 deaths per year.

[Barefoot]

I have found many sources that claim a high fat diet will raise the risk of having a stroke. One source that I consider to be reliable is the book, "Food Your Miracle Medicine", by Jean Carper.
Another source is the Journal of the American Medical Association. They claim that a high fat diet causes 300,000 deaths per year.

There is a lot of controversy on the subject of high fat diets; it's always interesting to hear different viewpoints.
I'm surprised that you would consider Jean Carper to be a reliable source; I believe she is not a doctor, but a journalist who has written 24 books?
Could you please provide a link to the AMA claim that you mentioned? Thanks.

[Barefoot]

Great explanation how this whole 'fat is bad, causes high cholesterol MYTH' came to be.

The science of saturated fat: A big fat surprise about nutrition? - Features - Health & Families - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/the-science-of-saturated-fat-a-big-fat-surprise-about-nutrition-9692121.html)

Thanks for referencing this article, it's very interesting.

[Villages PL]

There is a lot of controversy on the subject of high fat diets; it's always interesting to hear different viewpoints.
I'm surprised that you would consider Jean Carper to be a reliable source; I believe she is not a doctor, but a journalist who has written 24 books?
Could you please provide a link to the AMA claim that you mentioned? Thanks.

Jean Carper is not just a Journalist, she's a science writer. Just about everything she writes comes from interviewing leading specialists. Not every specialist has enough material or time to write their own book. So she picks up a lot of good information that might never have been reported otherwise. What she doesn't do: As far as I know, she has never written her own diet book.

Search: How High-Fat Diets Cause Obesity and Other Serious Health Hazards.

[Villages PL]

Thanks for referencing this article, it's very interesting.

The article you refer to, The Science of Saturated Fat, is indeed interesting. But the all important question is: Does it really prove the point that it's trying to make?

They have to go all the way back to Ancel Keys in the 1950s to find a faulty study and then blame everything on that? Holy Cow!

To prove that a high fat diet isn't bad they point to the Masai Warriors in Kenya in the 1970s. The article says they ate meat, milk and blood. I saw the Masai Warriors in action on TV. They lived a very primitive lifestyle. They were thin and did lots of running etc. and the meat they ate was extremely lean NOT grain feed beef like we have here in the U.S. The article didn't mention anything about their lifespan. Why use them as an example with incomplete information? Did they die of cancer in their 50s?

India 1967 research: The article said 1 million railway workers ate 8 to 19% more fat than others but lived on average 12 years longer. 12 years longer than what? Under what conditions? Were the other railway workers (the control group) starving? Again, incomplete information, so it doesn't prove anything.

Inuits: The article said they ate seafood almost exclusively that was 70 to 80 percent fat. That's what we would call "good fat", not saturated fat. There was no mention of what their average lifespan was. Again, incomplete information. So what did it prove?

Then the article mentions The Lancet (1974). "Reducing fat in the diet might lead to an increase in carbohydrates." So reducing fat leads to eating more starchy carbohydrates? And that's seen as a reason to eat a high-fat diet?

This is what happens when people don't like healthful non-starchy vegetables. They have to eat high protein and/or high-fat to keep from filling up on starchy carbohydrates.

[QueenBee1]

I don't agree with 'High' protein either. For me too much protein just turns to sugar. I try to eat a Ketogenic diet which is high fat,moderate protein and low carbs. Again, one of the best books to explain this WOE is Keto Clarity by Jimmy Morre and Eric C. Westman, MD. It will then lead you to read Cholesterol Clarity by the same.

Yes, This is how I eat also, without reading the book this is difficult for most people to wrap their head around, as it goes against all that we have been told for years, but this works, and more and more Doctors are starting to realize this, as always we all have to self educate ourselves and take control of our health.

[Villages PL]

Yes, This is how I eat also, without reading the book this is difficult for most people to wrap their head around, as it goes against all that we have been told for years, but this works, and more and more Doctors are starting to realize this, as always we all have to self educate ourselves and take control of our health.

Since you read the book, do you recall the author mentioning any large long-term study that illustrates health and longevity. Lifespan? Is there a link to any such study?

[rubicon]

Great explanation how this whole 'fat is bad, causes high cholesterol MYTH' came to be.

The science of saturated fat: A big fat surprise about nutrition? - Features - Health & Families - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/the-science-of-saturated-fat-a-big-fat-surprise-about-nutrition-9692121.html)

Hi PR1234: I came across that article a number of months ago. Then other articles followed explaining that people 65+ should eat high protein because their rate of absorption is compromised . It followed an article that had the headline "a steak a day keeps the doctor away" I know many people who have real intestinal problems living on a vegan type diet.

The best explanation I have read concerning this issue of fat came from a Harvard health Letter. In that article they labeled people excretors, compensators and storers The first group had the capacity to excrete excess fat from their bodies. the second group metabollism was such that it took additional fat needed and excrete excess and the last the problem group simply stored fat. It would appear that genetics played a significant role here

Personally I believe moderation in all things not only from a health standpoint but because it makes life more interesting. I mean my lifestyle has gotten me this far with little residuals.

What drives topics like this is the old age search for the fountain of youth. Look at the news articles in our daily papers and they are just loaded with advertising for looking younger slicker, healthier, sexier. Obvious these advertisers are trying to appeal to people's vanity and/or enabling them to deny their mortality.

My wife once asked what my reaction to a face life would be. My reply its not my choice but yours but please don't return home a stranger. Personally my view is beauty belongs to the young. We had our turn and in my view we should view beauty in a very different light. I love watching my wife's maturation she becomes more precious, more beautiful and more endearing with its passing day. Now there is something that can keep you healthy and young acting. We ought to bottled it

[Barefoot]

.... Personally I believe moderation in all things not only from a health standpoint but because it makes life more interesting....
What drives topics like this is the old age search for the fountain of youth.

I love watching my wife's maturation she becomes more precious, more beautiful and more endearing with its passing day. Now there is something that can keep you healthy and young acting.

Rubicon, I agree with your thoughts.
The "experts" seem to have increased their focus on seniors.
Not only because wrinklies are searching for the Fountain of Youth, but with the internet, we now have access to vast amounts of medical opinions.
Doctors are more likely to challenge old ideas. Seniors are gobbling up information, researching their options, and not content to settle for old-fashioned ideas.
New and important facts and theories are being discussed and studies are being done. What was true ten years ago is quite possibly not relevant today.

As an aside, I do LOVE your fond comments about your wife.

[Villages PL]

Hi PR1234:Personally I believe moderation in all things not only from a health standpoint but because it makes life more interesting.

The problem: Two thirds of the population, those who are overweight or obese, have failed "moderation 101".

And the rest of us pay for it either through higher taxes or higher insurance premiums.

[PR1234]

Per David Perlmutter, M.D. Facebook page:

Join me today with Dr. Mehmet Oz. We'll be discussing the science behind a low-carb, gluten-free lifestyle, and how you can make simple lifestyle changes for better health. Check your local listings: The Dr. Oz Show | The Dr. Oz Show (http://www.doctoroz.com/)