Where Are The Feminists?

[rubicon]

I have become very annoyed with the common place description of women being referred to by both men and women as "b------.

This is so disrespectful and degrading. The country goes ballistic if in any shape or form the n word is used but the "b"word is common place.

If one views women today through the lens of movies, television, and through the hearing of music one has to wonder if this was the intent of the feminist movement? Did the feminist movement intend for woman to take nude selfies and post them to their admirers? Or record sex tapes? Or use language that was once relegated to the seaside wharves?

Perhaps I am a romantic but the depiction of civility and the manner of women's fashions in the early 1900's is the epitome of femininity.

I love a woman with a sense of humor and a quick wit who is gracious and where confidence removes the need to be defensive.

[redwitch]

Sadly, I use the B word frequently, but I'm usually referring to a female dog, rarely another woman. Personally, I'd rather be called Beautiful, Intelligent, Talented, Creative, Honest than a girl any day of the week.

I doubt feminists ever dreamt that females would post nude selfies for the world to see but it is their right to do so. That is what we fought for -- the right to use our bodies as we deemed fit, not as others thought we should. Doesn't mean we agree with everything done by another, just that we defend their right to do so.

What bothers me is to see a young woman today still be subservient to the man in her life; the fact that women still don't receive equal pay for equal work; that abuse still exists and is frequently defended; that woman are again being denied the right to choose.

[graciegirl]

I have never had cause to feel anything but equal in my whole life. Our daughter and granddaughter seem to feel the same.

I never needed to prove anything, I felt that nothing held me back from doing anything I set my mind to do. My family didn't have any paterfamilias thing going on. My grandmother was one of the first to drive a car she said. She was a midwife and a really strong and kind woman. My husband has always been supportive of anything I did.

[B767drvr]

the fact that women still don't receive equal pay for equal work;

Hmmm… many, many articles opposing this assertion from varied authors on both sides of the world view aisle:

Mark J. Perry and Andrew G. Biggs: The '77 Cents on the Dollar' Myth About Women's Pay - WSJ (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472)

Liberal feminist Hanna Rosin debunks the 77 percent pay for women myth | Wintery Knight (http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2014/01/29/liberal-feminist-hanna-rosin-debunks-the-myth-77-cents-gender-pay-gap/)

Wage gap myth exposed (http://www.aei.org/article/society-and-culture/race-and-gender/wage-gap-myth-exposed-by-feminists/)

It's Time That We End the Equal Pay Myth - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-that-we-end-the-equal-pay-myth/)

[redwitch]

Gracie, like you, I was taught that I was only limited by my own actions and choices. However, that is not true for many women, even today. I did march and protest for women's rights (couldn't burn a bra -- didn't own one, had no need). Not because I needed those rights but because there was a true inequality in pay, in choices, in rights and I did feel that I had the right to choose what I wanted to do with my body without subterfuge.

[jblum315]

Maybe the ladies of the early 1900s looked very feminine but they also conveyed the look of helplessness. Imagine trying to walk, move, eat, even breathe with the corsets they had to wear. and God forbid anyone should glimpse an ankle or even mention the word leg in public. Even pianos had limbs rather than legs.

[redwitch]

Hmmm… many, many articles opposing this assertion from varied authors on both sides of the world view aisle:

Mark J. Perry and Andrew G. Biggs: The '77 Cents on the Dollar' Myth About Women's Pay - WSJ (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303532704579483752909957472)

Liberal feminist Hanna Rosin debunks the 77 percent pay for women myth | Wintery Knight (http://winteryknight.wordpress.com/2014/01/29/liberal-feminist-hanna-rosin-debunks-the-myth-77-cents-gender-pay-gap/)

Wage gap myth exposed (http://www.aei.org/article/society-and-culture/race-and-gender/wage-gap-myth-exposed-by-feminists/)

It's Time That We End the Equal Pay Myth - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/04/16/its-time-that-we-end-the-equal-pay-myth/)

You're right, the difference is no longer 77 percent, but there is still a gap -- women still at about 93 cents to the U.S. male's dollar. On Equal Pay Day, key facts about the gender pay gap | Pew Research Center (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/04/08/on-equal-pay-day-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-gender-pay-gap/)

The Awful Truth Behind The Gender Pay Gap - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbeswomanfiles/2014/04/07/the-awful-truth-of-the-gender-pay-gap-it-gets-worse-as-women-age/)

In some white collar professions, the gap is still huge: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/upshot/the-pay-gap-is-because-of-gender-not-jobs.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

[Bizdoc]

There are ignorant people everywhere. Now that I have the freedom of retirement and no longer have to smile at ignorant bosses and coworkers, I deal with people who use derogatory terms about people by crossing them off my list and avoiding them. Life is too short to be surrounded by idiots.

[B767drvr]

You're right, the difference is no longer 77 percent, but there is still a gap -- women still at about 93 cents to the U.S. male's dollar. On Equal Pay Day, key facts about the gender pay gap | Pew Research Center (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/04/08/on-equal-pay-day-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-gender-pay-gap/)

The Awful Truth Behind The Gender Pay Gap - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbeswomanfiles/2014/04/07/the-awful-truth-of-the-gender-pay-gap-it-gets-worse-as-women-age/)

In some white collar professions, the gap is still huge: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/upshot/the-pay-gap-is-because-of-gender-not-jobs.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

If this gender pay gap truly exists, why aren't more companies saving a bunch of money and hiring a disproportionate number of women versus men? Why hire a more expensive employee (man) to do the same job? :confused:

[redwitch]

Why didn't they hire more women in the 70s and 80s when the difference was even higher and there was a large female work force? If you think sexism, ageism and other forms of discrimination don't still exist, think again.

[Halibut]

Well, it feels wrong to refer to a woman as a bas****.

More seriously, I'll usually go with "idiot" under my breath if, say, another driver of either sex does something ... idiotic. I can only think of a few times in my life when I was angry enough to swear at someone I knew, but if I pushed, I will go with f-bomb bitch or bas**** as the case may be. The c-word gives me the shakes and I have never used it, even mentally. I do refer to men as d****, as recently as last week in reference to a person who is suing a friend of mine in an attempt to ruin his business.

"Bad" words are so odd. I have a British friend and I'll sometimes say "fanny" to him, just to watch him cringe.

[sunnyatlast]

Where are the feminists regarding Beyonce's use of Monica Lewinsky in these putrid lyrics--and the fact that they say NOTHING about the male involved with Lewinsky.......

Beyonce - Partition Lyrics | MetroLyrics (http://www.metrolyrics.com/partition-lyrics-beyonce.html)

I keep thinking this cannot be what MLK envisioned for all the little girls for whom he and the others fought so courageously.

[graciegirl]

Why didn't they hire more women in the 70s and 80s when the difference was even higher and there was a large female work force? If you think sexism, ageism and other forms of discrimination don't still exist, think again.


Granddaughter hasn't encountered it. She has had two promotions in her job since she graduated college two years ago in June. BUT she came from a family that never felt it was an issue. I think a lot of it is looking for trouble since I have never felt sexism in anything I did in my whole life.

[Kirsten Lee]

In fifth grade I had a teacher in his second year of teaching. He was in charge of the audio visual (AV) equipment for the school. I was the first girl AV monitor the school ever had. This was before Title IV and only boys played sports at lunch. I was the first girl scorekeeper but I was listed as "Bill Smith" on the game sheet so the boys in the other classes did not know until game time who was keeping score. I did not know I wasn't suppose to ask to do those "boy only" jobs because my parents told me I could do anything.

My daughter just graduated with a degree in industrial engineering. She was the top student in her class and yes she has a job! Sad to say some of the males she went to school with did not think females were as good as the males were. Last summer while working an internship, she was warned a number of times about the males on the shop floor and how they treated females differently. The female opinions were not listened to as well and suggestive sexual comments were made. Times have changed but not enough.

[Barefoot]

Maybe the ladies of the early 1900s looked very feminine but they also conveyed the look of helplessness. Imagine trying to walk, move, eat, even breathe with the corsets they had to wear. and God forbid anyone should glimpse an ankle or even mention the word leg in public.

Imagine trying to swim in a bathing "costume". :eek:
I'm so glad that women now feel free to wear comfortable clothing.

[rubicon]

Maybe the ladies of the early 1900s looked very feminine but they also conveyed the look of helplessness. Imagine trying to walk, move, eat, even breathe with the corsets they had to wear. and God forbid anyone should glimpse an ankle or even mention the word leg in public. Even pianos had limbs rather than legs.

Hi jblum: Perhaps their is merit to your claims but my readings over the years on this area explained women in general could cut with refinement.

However lets view what women wear today some indeed fashionable but many especially the young look as though they belong in a red light district. And if you follow some they act like that is where belong. Further consider that while women in the 1900's wore corsets to slim the waist women today some women today are down to 100 calorie diets..what's changed?

Today more women run major corporations, more women than men attend college and the wage gap myth is a political ploy.

However most of this is beside the point. My original post was strictly about the offensive use of the b word. Is it any wonder why some women get slapped around something I consider very cowardly.

The women in my life have all been very strong never submissive. However they tended to compliment rather than compete with their men. Sometimes they lead and sometimes they followed. From the day I met my wife (freshman in high school) we have worked together in harmony to build a life for ourselves and our families and I bet that most people have done the same but it always seems the more outrageous get the attention

Feminist claim that women fought to do with their bodies as they pleased and I wonder why a woman would choose to abuse her body, her spirituality and her self worth by being promiscuous? I also believe the same about a man and wonder why men brag about their many conquest. I mean alley dogs can do that.

[Taltarzac725]

What You're Really Saying When You Call Me a Bitch ? Everyday Feminism (http://everydayfeminism.com/2013/10/you-call-me-a-bitch/)

I do not use swear words very often unless on a Freeway and cut off by someone and alone.

I was trained in librarianship which is still mainly a female profession so I suppose I approach things a little differently. Except for a way of releasing stress I have not found much use for swear words especially in the work setting. And "Bitch" is one of those I would very much stir away from using along with the "C" word which rarely even enters my mind.

[pbkmaine]

I have never had cause to feel anything but equal in my whole life. Our daughter and granddaughter seem to feel the same.

I never needed to prove anything, I felt that nothing held me back from doing anything I set my mind to do. My family didn't have any paterfamilias thing going on. My grandmother was one of the first to drive a car she said. She was a midwife and a really strong and kind woman. My husband has always been supportive of anything I did.

The examples you have in your life are so important. My mother always kept the family budget, so I grew up thinking that knowing how to use money wisely was important. My father pushed me to excel, with the idea that there were no limits to what I could achieve. Both of them encouraged me to get my MBA. My husband has been my biggest cheerleader since then.

What if I hadn't had that? What if I had been taught to believe that my only value was in my body? How different would my life have been?

[Buffalo Jim]

When is the parade and the " Teach-In / Protest Rally " ?

Will those 1970 `s activists now retired come out and march and burn their brassieres again?
I don`t want to miss it !

[Barefoot]

Will those 1970 `s activists now retired come out and march and burn their brassieres again? I don`t want to miss it !

Oh, you may want to give it a miss.
It might hurt your eyeballs. :eek:

[njbchbum]

You're right, the difference is no longer 77 percent, but there is still a gap -- women still at about 93 cents to the U.S. male's dollar. On Equal Pay Day, key facts about the gender pay gap | Pew Research Center (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/04/08/on-equal-pay-day-everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-gender-pay-gap/)

The Awful Truth Behind The Gender Pay Gap - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbeswomanfiles/2014/04/07/the-awful-truth-of-the-gender-pay-gap-it-gets-worse-as-women-age/)

In some white collar professions, the gap is still huge: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/upshot/the-pay-gap-is-because-of-gender-not-jobs.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

Not only not equal in some professions - even in the White House I hear!

What is that $0.07 difference due to? Does anyone know for sure? Or could it be due to the fact that many women do not have the same length of service where they work in the same job as a man? Do the people who calculate that statistic even take into consideration the difference/likeness in length of service of the male/female salaries being measured?

[Buffalo Jim]

Senior management positions begin with an MBA and best if it is from one of the top 10 Business Schools . For several years I recruited MBAs from the best Business Schools in the country .
The number of male MBA students outnumbered the number of Female MBA students by 10 to 1 . You have to be in the game to win at the game .
In my 35 years as a manager it was common practice to pay men and women employees at the same level and experience the same pay . I never experienced it any other way .
The same experience , the same qualifications the same responsibilities meant the same pay . And you can bet that it was closely monitored by HR and even Audited to ensure that this was practiced regardless of what company I happened to be working for .
So where is this issue coming from today ? What segment of the economy ? What type of jobs ?