Let us pray

[kittygilchrist]

Beloved, i will pray for all your needs. I know many, many, many hearts for God will join in love to pray.
All in love, mercy, peace.

There will be opposition tO tHe thread...yawn...

[BobnBev]

Beloved, i will pray for all your needs. I know many, many, many hearts for God will join in love to pray.
All in love, mercy, peace.

There will be opposition tO tHe thread...yawn...


Uhhhhhh, and now, the rest of the story?

[Uberschaf]

Wtf?

[Blessed2BNTV]

Beloved, i will pray for all your needs. I know many, many, many hearts for God will join in love to pray.
All in love, mercy, peace.

There will be opposition tO tHe thread...yawn...

Kitty,

Well said, very well said.

Blessings to you and glad you are back....safely.

All in love and mercy.

Lillian

[Uberschaf]

Now I have nothing left to say.

[Bonanza]

There is nothing wrong with prayer, certainly. It makes people feel better and gives them hope.

However, being proactive in a situation can really show results.

[sunnyatlast]

Will join in prayer for all the faithful, who are targets of mockery, prejudice, stereotyping, and bigotry, as illustrated above in #3.

I'm glad Kitty is back from Israel, safe and sound.

[ureout]

aside from the wtf? I thought #3 above was correct....prayer is easy....getting up and doing something is the work part.

[Sophie11]

Without GOD YOU can do nothing!

[bluedog103]

Beloved, i will pray for all your needs. I know many, many, many hearts for God will join in love to pray.
All in love, mercy, peace.

There will be opposition tO tHe thread...yawn...
Thank you Kitty for having the courage to start this thread.

[sunnyatlast]

aside from the wtf? I thought #3 above was correct....prayer is easy....getting up and doing something is the work part.

When an innocent, defenseless person is on his knees with hands and feet bound, and the ISIS executioner has his knife ready to cut his head off, the victim will be praying, not "working".

[Bonanza]

When an innocent, defenseless person is on his knees with hands and feet bound, and the ISIS executioner has his knife ready to cut his head off, the victim will be praying, not "working".

In a situation such as what you mentioned, nothing will work!

Don't you also think people prayed during the holocaust???

[jnieman]

If you all feel like it my friend Don could use prayers. He was just diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and they are doing surgery on Monday. We just found out this evening and are so worried. He is a TOTV member just in his 60s.

[Barefoot]

Prayer is powerful and can work miracles for those who believe.
For others, gardening or meditation or a nature walk may yield a similar result.
It's all good.

[kittygilchrist]

If you all feel like it my friend Don could use prayers. He was just diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and they are doing surgery on Monday. We just found out this evening and are so worried. He is a TOTV member just in his 60s.

I pray in The name of Jesus for Don to have perfect help from doctors, clean, sure surgery, excellence of clinicians. Angels will be on duty at all times to assure spirit of supernatural grace, healing, peace.
For all who love him, peace beyond understanding from on high.

PM if i can help you in any way, perhaps wait with you during surgery. This is what my family would do.

[kittygilchrist]

For those who mock prayer as easy, you do not know what you are talking about, and are without clue who your enemy is, whose ilk you cannot perceive, and would underestimate if you even knew of his existence, which you do not.

Basically said, you have an enemy whom you are not capable of perceiving.

[Ninanina]

If you all feel like it my friend Don could use prayers. He was just diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and they are doing surgery on Monday. We just found out this evening and are so worried. He is a TOTV member just in his 60s.

Both Don and his family will be in my prayers.

[Bonanza]

If you all feel like it my friend Don could use prayers. He was just diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and they are doing surgery on Monday. We just found out this evening and are so worried. He is a TOTV member just in his 60s.

I don't know this gentlman, but this is a very difficult time for him, his family and friends.
My father had pancreatic cancer so I know what everyone is going through.

My thoughts are with him.

[kittygilchrist]

If you all feel like it my friend Don could use prayers. He was just diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and they are doing surgery on Monday. We just found out this evening and are so worried. He is a TOTV member just in his 60s.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for.
I pray your faith lifts you like a fesh wind.
Words like preciuos gems of comfort come from your lips.
I cast down everythng that exalts itself above the will of God and by authority of christs resurrection command healing. Wisdom for caregivers.
Squelch accidents, mistakes, infection.

[rubicon]

What is WTF?

[ureout]

What is WTF?

I pm'd you

[Blessed2BNTV]

Kitty thank you for your posts. I stand beside you.

Lillian
Blessed2BNTV

[onslowe]

Kitty, thanks for the post. It once again shows your gentle but fervent good use of the gift God has given to you. Unlike many, you carry your faith openly but gently and never with uncalled for embarassment or shyness.

People who pray are not idle. They too have a great deal of well founded confidence and know that prayer and faith in God is more meaningful and rewarding than just plain old 21st century 'self confidence' alone.

Maybe some of us, myself included, are great athletes - we can get on our knees (figuratively or literally) and also get up and 'do something.'

God bless you Kitty. And Don will be in my prayers.

[Gramps666]

Wtf?

You are right on. Prayer has no effect on anything except a person's mentality. We usually only hear from those who feel prayer has helped. Never from those who have prayed and then died. Which raises another question. Why does God play favorites by answering some and not others? After all, the Bible tells us that everything will be answered. And don't give me any of that BS about sometimes he says no.

[graciegirl]

If you don't pray, hush .

Ora et Labora. Neither will harm you and may very well help you.

The "wtf" ****es me off.

[CFrance]

If you all feel like it my friend Don could use prayers. He was just diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and they are doing surgery on Monday. We just found out this evening and are so worried. He is a TOTV member just in his 60s.
Thanks for the heads-up, and my head will bow down for Don.

[CFrance]

You are right on. Prayer has no effect on anything except a person's mentality. We usually only hear from those who feel prayer has helped. Never from those who have prayed and then died. Which raises another question. Why does God play favorites by answering some and not others? After all, the Bible tells us that everything will be answered. And don't give me any of that BS about sometimes he says no.
The Bible does not tell us that everything will get answered to our satisfaction.

[Kahuna32162]

Once again, proof that religion, as a topic on this forum, is a bad idea.

If you pray, that's fine. If I don't pray, that's fine too. There is never one right way for everyone.

[chachacha]

for centuries religious people disagreed about the better value of the contemplative monastic life vs the orders who worked as teachers, nurses, etc.....both groups were working for God in their own way. of course those who don't even believe in God are hopefully working for the good of humanity, but too many are busy mocking and printing expletives to have any good effect at all.

[onslowe]

for centuries religious people disagreed about the better value of the contemplative monastic life vs the orders who worked as teachers, nurses, etc.....both groups were working for God in their own way. of course those who don't even believe in God are hopefully working for the good of humanity, but too many are busy mocking and printing expletives to have any good effect at all.

Great thoughtful post. Well said and thanks, ChaChaCha. :)

[graciegirl]

Great thoughtful post. Well said and thanks, ChaChaCha. :)

I sometimes do not have faith and yet I cannot ever put down those who do. I think that the way I was raised in the community that I lived with Jewish and Christian people was a huge blessing. The people that I knew growing up were given guidelines and a moral compass.

Atheists used to quietly not believe in God and now many of them just appear jealous of those with faith and start issues that hurt everybody. If you don't pray...well, just don't pray. Don't use nasties like "wtf".

I don't like how the world has changed in many ways.

So, Kitty, please keep praying for us and I will pray for Don.

[Xavier]

Beloved, i will pray for all your needs. I know many, many, many hearts for God will join in love to pray.
All in love, mercy, peace.

There will be opposition tO tHe thread...yawn...

I strongly "Believe." I have never found the need to advertise my beliefs nor have I ever found the need to pressure others to believe as I do. I'm far from perfect, but I feel that living my beliefs to the best of my (imperfect) ability is a clear way to my salvation. I do pray privately and sometimes not even out loud!

Xavier

[sunnyatlast]

You are right on. Prayer has no effect on anything except a person's mentality. We usually only hear from those who feel prayer has helped. Never from those who have prayed and then died. Which raises another question. Why does God play favorites by answering some and not others? After all, the Bible tells us that everything will be answered. And don't give me any of that BS about sometimes he says no.

Prayer is not only for relief of our mortal and physical sufferings, but more importantly for our souls that live on in eternity. We are spirits created in God's own image--spirit.

We can choose to deny God exists, disobey Him and exalt ourselves, which results in choosing for our souls to spend eternity in agony, gnashing of teeth and torture with Satan (who defied God's divine authority over him and exalted himself).

Or we can choose to believe the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and believe that His Son Jesus is the promised Messiah who, because of our faith and trust in Him, gives our souls eternal life in heaven.

The two thieves on the cross beside Jesus are a prime lesson preserved in Scripture these two thousand years for our learning.

One chose to mock Jesus and deny Jesus was the Son of God and declared him powerless and an impostor.

The other thief chose to
- admit his guilt,
- repent of his crimes,
- acknowledge that Jesus was/is the Son of God and promised Messiah, and
- ASK Jesus for divine forgiveness and redeem him before Holy God in heaven.

The choice is abundantly clear when choosing Satan or Christ.

Those who choose Christ as Lord over their lives have their mind and soul at peace now thru eternity, regardless of our diseased or dying physical condition.

See verses 33-39 in Luke 23:
scripture (http://www.usccb.org/bible/luke/23)

[Gramps666]

Oh yes, good old Satan. Must be dumber than my pet rock. Here was somebody in the presence of The Lord who obviously wasn't quite as blissful as everyone else in Heaven. And he must have know he could never defeat the Almighty. And yet he left all that goodness for a life of eternal misery. Or might he just be a creation of the true believers so they have someone to blame when God doesn't come through?
Another thought. IF Jesus is God then why is Jesus a mass murder? Here are some verses for you. Numbers 31:17; Psalms 137:9; and Isaiah 13:16 are just a few which will give you an idea of just how much God loves his creations.

[Gramps666]

The Bible does not tell us that everything will get answered to our satisfaction.

Mark 11:24 "Therefore, I say unto you, Whatever things ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them."
John 14:14 "If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it."

Sounds to me like anything which is asked for will be given. But then again I understand that the Bible is so ambiguous and contradictory anyone can use it to support any position they want.

[rubicon]

I was truly impressed with the interview Megan Kelly (Fox News) had with Miriam Abrahaim (sp) the Sudanese woman who was jailed for six months for marrying a Christian (Catholic) . she had been Christian her entire life gave birth in jail and remained there with both kids until public opinion (Megan Kelly /Fox pushed for her release. She continually repeated her right to choose her manner to worship. How many Americans have that much conviction? How many people in Sudan and other areas where they are repressed by their government have gained faith hope and courage because of this extraordinary woman. She kept saying I prayed to God and I knew God would answer my prayers. Let'us all pray

[sunnyatlast]

I was truly impressed with the interview Megan Kelly (Fox News) had with Miriam Abrahaim (sp) the Sudanese woman who was jailed for six months for marrying a Christian (Catholic) . she had been Christian her entire life gave birth in jail and remained there with both kids until public opinion (Megan Kelly /Fox pushed for her release. She continually repeated her right to choose her manner to worship. How many Americans have that much conviction? How many people in Sudan and other areas where they are repressed by their government have gained faith hope and courage because of this extraordinary woman. She kept saying I prayed to God and I knew God would answer my prayers. Let'us all pray

Here is Miriam Ibrahim's interview.

Gave birth in prison, in chains.

Q: "Why didn't you just tell them (Imams) what they wanted to hear?"

A: "Faith means life. If you don't have faith, you're not alive."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDqaSwatd8I

[Xavier]

The Bible does not tell us that everything will get answered to our satisfaction.

Sometimes folks find that they don't like the answer they get. This old (clean) joke makes that point:


God granting miracles

A religious man is on top of a roof during a great flood. A man comes by in a boat and says "get in, get in!" The religious man replies, " no I have faith in God, he will grant me a miracle."

Later the water is up to his waist and another boat comes by and the guy tells him to get in again. He responds that he has faith in god and god will give him a miracle. With the water at about chest high, another boat comes to rescue him, but he turns down the offer again cause "God will grant him a miracle."

With the water at chin high, a helicopter throws down a ladder and they tell him to get in, mumbling with the water in his mouth, he again turns down the request for help for the faith of God. He arrives at the gates of heaven with broken faith and says to Peter, I thought God would grand me a miracle and I have been let down." St. Peter chuckles and responds, "I don't know what you're complaining about, we sent you three boats and a helicopter."

Xavier

[kittygilchrist]

Here is Miriam Ibrahim's interview.

Gave birth in prison, in chains.

Q: "Why didn't you just tell them (Imams) what they wanted to hear?"

A: "Faith means life. If you don't have faith, you're not alive."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDqaSwatd8I

Thank you, that is totally awesome. I prayed for her and then lost track of her. I'm glad God took care of her.

[Villages PL]

This is a story of something that happened over 18 years ago but I don't think I will ever forget it:

I went to the house of a minister because of an ad I had in the shopper. I was the caregiver for my mother and had bought a large amount of Depends. To get a good price I bought several cartons. After my mother passed away, I put an ad in the shopper to sell the left over 3 cartons.

So I got a call from a woman in the next town and I went over to show her what I had. She was taking care of the minister and his wife. They were both in the slow process of dying at home. The minister had emphysema and was in the living room hooked up to oxygen. His wife had something else and was confined to bed in the bedroom. She was down to skin and bone from her illness.

So the caregiver went in to see if the Depends would fit the dying woman. In the mean time, I sat and talked to the minister in the living room. What surprised me was that he told me he was afraid because he didn't know where he would go when he died. I could hardly believe I was hearing that from a minister who said he had his own church for many decades in Florida.

I honestly didn't know what to say; talk about being in an awkward situation.
I wanted to help him but in what way could I possibly do that? I didn't really know why he doubted where he was going. Had he done something terrible that he thought was unforgiveable? Or, did he somehow lose his faith? Perhaps it was the situation he was in with both he and his wife being incapacitated at the same time. I suppose that could do it.

He might have wondered why God had forsaken him and his wife and left them both to die slowly in such a miserable way. They couldn't help each other and couldn't themselves. The only help seemed to be the neighbor who came to look in on them a few times a day.

Where was his congregation? I don't know. His yard looked like a jungle of trees, bushes and weeds. It all looked like it hadn't been cared for in over a year.

If he was a minister who served God most of his life, where was God in his time of need?

[Bill Tasker]

I sometimes do not have faith and yet I cannot ever put down those who do. I think that the way I was raised in the community that I lived with Jewish and Christian people was a huge blessing. The people that I knew growing up were given guidelines and a moral compass.

Atheists used to quietly not believe in God and now many of them just appear jealous of those with faith and start issues that hurt everybody. If you don't pray...well, just don't pray. Don't use nasties like "wtf".

I don't like how the world has changed in many ways.

So, Kitty, please keep praying for us and I will pray for Don.

I couldn't agree more with Gracie. If you are not religious or faithful than why are you even looking at Kitty's post. Just move on. The world has become such a snarky place.

[kittygilchrist]

Some wish to know God, and read in hope...and post wanting an answer....
some snipe at the words that convict them of evil.

[Villages PL]

I couldn't agree more with Gracie. If you are not religious or faithful than why are you even looking at Kitty's post. Just move on. The world has become such a snarky place.

I would say the same thing about the subject of food and health. I often start threads about food and health and I get lots of people being disruptive and not contributing to the purpose of the thread. There's often so much disruption that the thread gets closed. If they don't like the subject or are anti-health, why don't they just move on?

Health and religion share something in common it seems. Those who are not religious don't want anyone else to be religious. And those who are anti-health begrudge anyone else who's interested in promoting health.

The only difference is: Many more people will show up to defend and support religion.

[jbdlfan]

First of all, anyone who thinks prayer is easy must pray differently than I. Next, check out this link about common misunderstandings about Christianity. I love how athiest and agnostics want to pick and choose. They accuse me of it when they want to take the Word of God out of context themselves......
http://www.faithfacts.org/search-for-truth/misconceptions-about-christianity

[kittygilchrist]

First of all, anyone who thinks prayer is easy must pray differently than I. Next, check out this link about common misunderstandings about Christianity. I love how athiest and agnostics want to pick and choose. They accuse me of it when they want to take the Word of God out of context themselves......
Common Misconceptions about Christianity - Faith Facts (http://www.faithfacts.org/search-for-truth/misconceptions-about-christianity)

Jdb, that is my heart. I just went to israel to pray. The Armor of god is a full set of armor..google it for anyone wanting to know about it. We wrestle with principalities of darkness, not flesh and blood.

Rockets did not fly from gaza aug 28 to sept 14. Cease fire exactly coinciding, or my trip would have been no go. Prayer is spiritual war.

Everyone knows this: thy will be done on earth, thy kingdom come.
That is what prayer does...brings the creation in agreement with creator. Earth is entering her time of groaning to be cleansed and made holy.

The beginning of birth pangs...if u want more info on that.

[KeepingItReal]

Some wish to know God, and read in hope...and post wanting an answer....
some snipe at the words that convict them of evil.



Psalms 14:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

[rubicon]

I couldn't agree more with Gracie. If you are not religious or faithful than why are you even looking at Kitty's post. Just move on. The world has become such a snarky place.

Bill" did Jesus just go to places where people believed or were faithful to his word? What is the point of a thread unless you can get a broad reference in which to debate? If an OP is certain of his topic then why feel threatened or upset if one has the diametric point of view. today's announcement by artificial sweetners is a good example. Experts once again are doing a 360.

Disagreement does not indicate anything more than disagreement about the subject matter. it is not a direct rejection of the opposing person. We all seek truth. If an OP only wants those that agree then please place in big block letters if you don't agree with me don't apply I only want people who agree I'm right to respond

[onslowe]

Rubicon, I very much respect and most often agree generally with your comments and views. Not here. What I think Gracie and Bill are reacting to ( and I am with them) is the fact that there's no debate here. Debates are respectful. Launching into ad hominem assaults (direct or by implication) are not worthy to be in a debate. Debates are an exercise for reasonably educated and sufficiently well read persons, and are conducted with civility.

Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but what sort of strange new debating tool is "Wtf?"

[kittygilchrist]

Just let the op say, everybody bring all opinions. Say it how your gut brings it. Jesus did not shrink from humanity. Otherwise he would have rejected me.

Hey, did u hear this? Fox says Isis came over the us/mex border...duh. Who did not see that coming?

[rubicon]

Rubicon, I very much respect and most often agree generally with your comments and views. Not here. What I think Gracie and Bill are reacting to ( and I am with them) is the fact that there's no debate here. Debates are respectful. Launching into ad hominem assaults (direct or by implication) are not worthy to be in a debate. Debates are an exercise for reasonably educated and sufficiently well read persons, and are conducted with civility.

Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but what sort of strange new debating tool is "Wtf?"

onslowe: see your opposing view just alerted me to a point of view that escaped me. Further I didn't know what WTF meant and had to ask. I was sent a PM and after reading it was red faced. I am one of those individuals they does not swear. Just believe there are too many beautiful words in our language. thank you for the heads up

[onslowe]

onslowe: see your opposing view just alerted me to a point of view that escaped me. Further I didn't know what WTF meant and had to ask. I was sent a PM and after reading it was red faced. I am one of those individuals they does not swear. Just believe there are too many beautiful words in our language. thank you for the heads up

You sir, are and always have been a class act here. :)

[kittygilchrist]

onslowe: see your opposing view just alerted me to a point of view that escaped me. Further I didn't know what WTF meant and had to ask. I was sent a PM and after reading it was red faced. I am one of those individuals they does not swear. Just believe there are too many beautiful words in our language. thank you for the heads up

Yep. I looked back over thread knowing ur innocent, Rub...
I of course, was taught to swear while crawling. Everybody stop smacking each other, please.

See how disturbing it is just to suggest prayer? We have an enemy, whom we vastly, vastly underestimate.

[Sophie11]

When you separate the wheat from the chaff, you select what is useful or valuable and reject what is useless or worthless. Amazing how easy to tell the wheat from the chaff in the last few years!

[Bgreuter]

When an innocent, defenseless person is on his knees with hands and feet bound, and the ISIS executioner has his knife ready to cut his head off, the victim will be praying, not "working".




I have to agree.

[Bgreuter]

You are right on. Prayer has no effect on anything except a person's mentality. We usually only hear from those who feel prayer has helped. Never from those who have prayed and then died. Which raises another question. Why does God play favorites by answering some and not others? After all, the Bible tells us that everything will be answered. And don't give me any of that BS about sometimes he says no.




Sometimes, like any good Father, he says No.

[Ninanina]

You are right on. Prayer has no effect on anything except a person's mentality. We usually only hear from those who feel prayer has helped. Never from those who have prayed and then died. Which raises another question. Why does God play favorites by answering some and not others? After all, the Bible tells us that everything will be answered. And don't give me any of that BS about sometimes he says no.

Well I prayed and prayed and prayed and he still died.

My DH studied for a few years to be a priest and he truly believed. That brings me comfort . I still believe and I still have hope.

Your question about playing favorites has haunted me. I guess I will find the answer in another life.

I have enjoyed reading all your comments. You make me think. I have to admit that I had to goggle WTF. That was new to me!

[Gramps666]

Sometimes, like any good Father, he says No.

Why, when He tells us all we have to do is ask and it shall be given, would He then turn around and say NO. Mark 11:24; John 14:14; Matthew 18:19.

And then I have to ask, Why does God hate amputees? They certainly have been prayed for over and over again. Yet He refuses to let a single one regrow their limbs. If He can cure leprosy, give sight to the blind, raise the dead, etc. why does He refuse to help a single amputee?

And one more question to chew on. If He is such a GOOD FATHER why does he condemn many of his children to eternal punishment for being "bad"? If a child of mine was bad (or even rejected me) I would continue to love them and wish them nothing but happiness. But not our GOOD FATHER. He hides from us and then condemns us to fire and brimstone if we question His existence. GOOD FATHER?

[graciegirl]

Mark 11:24 "Therefore, I say unto you, Whatever things ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them."
John 14:14 "If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it."

Sounds to me like anything which is asked for will be given. But then again I understand that the Bible is so ambiguous and contradictory anyone can use it to support any position they want.

Gramps, your bitterness is evident. You certainly can believe or disbelieve anything you want. Kitty is a sincere woman who started this thread for her good reasons.

There will always be people who debate the existence of God. They are usually among our brightest people, our most questioning, our most focused, our clear eyed doers. At times I have been among them, but I see no good in saying scathing things to kind and loving people.

Religion can be any number of things, but unless it is extreme and full of hate it seems to be a very good thing to direct us toward responsibility to others and remind us that life on earth is sometimes very short. Karl Marx called it the opium of the people. Well then that isn't so awful. It is better to me to have religion to comfort than staggering drunk around Lake Sumter Landing to escape the sadness and fear we all have at times.

So to each his own beliefs. I just have trouble with the hatred that is becoming far too common against decent people who want to turn to God.

[Sophie11]

We are all going to live forever. We are a spirit living on earth getting an experience. GOD did give us an instruction book on how to do this but because of pride people do not read it. Read your Bibles and start with the book of JOHN. Sometimes I wonder if we were all cast to earth to get over ourselves!

[Gramps666]

Gramps, your bitterness is evident. You certainly can believe or disbelieve anything you want. Kitty is a sincere woman who started this thread for her good reasons.

There will always be people who debate the existence of God. They are usually among our brightest people, our most questioning, our most focused, our clear eyed doers. At times I have been among them, but I see no good in saying scathing things to kind and loving people.

Religion can be any number of things, but unless it is extreme and full of hate it seems to be a very good thing to direct us toward responsibility to others and remind us that life on earth is sometimes very short. Karl Marx called it the opium of the people. Well then that isn't so awful. It is better to me to have religion to comfort than staggering drunk around Lake Sumter Landing to escape the sadness and fear we all have at times.

So to each his own beliefs. I just have trouble with the hatred that is becoming far too common against decent people who want to turn to God.

Gracie, not bitter at all. I've been on the conservative Christian side. Gone to Bible study, week-end retreats, etc. I would just like the people who claim that the Bible is their guide to really know what ALL of the Bible has to say. When I hear something like "Family Values" thrown around it reminds me of the story of Lot. Not when his wife was turned to salt, but later. When he had sex with his daughters. And God rewarded this by giving him a son (or grandson) with each of his daughters.
And don't just call me bitter. I know that's a way to easily dismiss me but think about some of the questions I have. In a modern society I would think most people should have the same questions. I would like some answers other than the Lord works in strange and mysterious ways.
Believe me, having been on the other side, I think of this often. And the more I think, the more I'm convinced that there are a lot of people who prefer to stay in Fantasy Land than live in reality. Just trying to wake up the general public.
And I appreciate Kitty opening up this forum for discussion. I look forward to raising more questions.

[Gramps666]

We are all going to live forever. We are a spirit living on earth getting an experience. GOD did give us an instruction book on how to do this but because of pride people do not read it. Read your Bibles and start with the book of JOHN. Sometimes I wonder if we were all cast to earth to get over ourselves!

I particularly like 1Timothy 2:9-14. Part of that goes, "But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

I could learn to live by that. How about you?

[graciegirl]

I particularly like 1Timothy 2:9-14. Part of that goes, "But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

I could learn to live by that. How about you?

The Bible is a holy book. Presidents have been sworn in with their hand on the Bible. It is a symbol of importance to many.

If you want to debate any books held sacred by any religion, there are scholars everywhere to defend them and skeptics to dismiss them.

Catholics do not hold with the literal interpretation and there are Christians of all kinds with different ideas of what the Bible means, from literal interpretation to historical information and guidance. I think caring and love is the hallmark of most religions, but are not limited to them.

I think that you are typing to just hurt and to anger..

[red tail]

The Bible is a holy book. Presidents have been sworn in with their hand on the Bible. It is a symbol of importance to many.

If you want to debate any books held sacred by any religion, there are scholars everywhere to defend them and skeptics to dismiss them.

Catholics do not hold with the literal interpretation and there are Christians of all kinds with different ideas of what the Bible means, from literal interpretation to a historical guidance. I think caring and love is the hallmark of a true Christian.

I think that you are typing to just hurt and to anger..

no personal retorts !

[Moderator]

Please address the topic and not each other. If these personal barbs continue, the thread will be closed.

Moderator

[Barefoot]

***

[kittygilchrist]

The topic was...prayer.
I appreciate that some people still pray. I am surely not alone in perceiving the spirit antichrist, of lucifer, revving up in the world, against anything of God, as has been mildly demonstrated here.

Heaven help us....

[jbdlfan]

Once again, anyone can take verses out of the Word and use them out of context. I have seen this several times in this thread alone. Reading the Bible is not the same as understanding the Bible. Secondly, as to why does a Heavenly father allow suffering, not really the place of man to decide or even begin to understand His plan. Sorry, but my Faith allows me to consider but never doubt......and I'm not talking about religion.....

[Chi-Town]

Since the topic is prayer I wonder how many agree with Jim Morrison of The Doors take on it from Soft Parade:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k1g8WCA7mJk

[kittygilchrist]

Once again, anyone can take verses out of the Word and use them out of context. I have seen this several times in this thread alone. Reading the Bible is not the same as understanding the Bible. Secondly, as to why does a Heavenly father allow suffering, not really the place of man to decide or even begin to understand His plan. Sorry, but my Faith allows me to consider but never doubt......and I'm not talking about religion.....

Isolating scripture was Lucifers best shot at getting Jesus to obey him instead of God. He quoted verses to try to fool Jesus into sin and thereby destroy Gods plan for mankind to be rescued by the cross.

His second best shot is to accuse believers and condemn them maliciously. Boy howdy.

[graciegirl]

I have always been very frightened by the movie The Exorcist.

There is no logical reason for this fear but the part where Father Karras hears his mother's voice coming from the mouth of Regan and Father Merrin says something to the effect that no matter who it sounds like it is still the evil one.

I guess that we all have fear of evil and love of good and that is placed inside all of us for good purpose.

I get where Kitty is coming from and I thank her for her prayers on our behalf. Kitty is a good person.

[Taltarzac725]

Since the topic is prayer I wonder how many agree with Jim Morrison of The Doors take on it from Soft Parade:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k1g8WCA7mJk

Jim Morrison sounds like a nihilistic hedonist to some. http://fourinoneblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/its-getting-harder-to-describe.html

There is a word for this: hedonism. Undeniably, there is a distinct hedonistic aspect to the lyrics and poetry of Jim Morrison. But it is a hedonism in the face of a certainty that time will win; death will win; our time is fleeting, our youth temporary and a moment wasted is a moment lost forever. There is a definite Götterdämmerung vibe to Jim's vision. Don't get lost looking toward some promised paradise yet-to-come; this is your paradise, your Valhalla, and you should not let the fact that you are aware that Valhalla is, yes, destined, doomed, ultimately to fall deter you from finding whatever enjoyment you can while there is still time.

Personally, I believe everyone has a purpose but most of us never really find it or perhaps we just strive to find it and never quite get there at finding it. Prayer can help with that.

[elbear]

I sometimes do not have faith and yet I cannot ever put down those who do. I think that the way I was raised in the community that I lived with Jewish and Christian people was a huge blessing. The people that I knew growing up were given guidelines and a moral compass.

Atheists used to quietly not believe in God and now many of them just appear jealous of those with faith and start issues that hurt everybody. If you don't pray...well, just don't pray. Don't use nasties like "wtf".

I don't like how the world has changed in many ways.

So, Kitty, please keep praying for us and I will pray for Don.

The world has changed and now it seems fashionable to put down those who have faith especially by those who have no idea what genuine faith is. They can point out the few who in their humanity have fallen hard and so see all in the same light. I've worked with those in grief and in their last days seeing again the power and value in even just a little faith and the strength these people get from prayer. "Just in your mind..." Well if that is all you think...if it brings courage and strength to do what was beforehand impossible, what my friend is wrong with that? Many of us are at different stages of faith ...I support you all. Yes, keep praying.

[rubicon]

some comments in this thread awaken me to a point in time when my wife and I went on a Marriage encounter weekend to explore our relationship with each other and with God. a product of that weekend was a long poem I wrote and was published for the Marriage Encounter community. I titled it The Great Fish taken from a writing by Guy de Mussapant (sp) His thesis was that this great fish had spawned the universe in prolific stupidity. In that poem I struggled with the why's and how's and where's of God, God's plan, etc. But most troubling for me was the one issue in which most of mankind would agree and that is the suffering of children. All creatures of this earth have the innate extinct to protect their young because it is in its very essence protecting and preserving the species. This is something that eludes me to no end. And in that any man that harms a child is the very representation of evil at its worse

I filed my poem away from my kids to read in later years. It was a gut wrenching experience for me but I ended the poem with a call for hope springing eternal

[ureout]

The topic was...prayer.
I appreciate that some people still pray. I am surely not alone in perceiving the spirit antichrist, of lucifer, revving up in the world, against anything of God, as has been mildly demonstrated here.

Heaven help us....

.....this is a forum to speak what you feel and or believe, and saying that someone who does not agree with you and your beliefs, that they are the spirit antichrist, of lucifer, that is not right, and the way I see it not very christian like...we live in the USA not 1940's Germany. We should all be able to debate what we feel.

[Sophie11]

Yes I believe a woman should not teach next to a man because a man can only see the woman not because she is not capable to teach. I believe a woman should also cover her head in church because again - hair is a woman's glory and it will take glory from GOD as a man has been wired to look upon a woman. LOT had sex with his daughters because back then the human body was perfect and there was no genetic defects and to populate the earth that was how it was accomplished.

[elbear]

This is a story of something that happened over 18 years ago but I don't think I will ever forget it:

I went to the house of a minister because of an ad I had in the shopper. I was the caregiver for my mother and had bought a large amount of Depends. To get a good price I bought several cartons. After my mother passed away, I put an ad in the shopper to sell the left over 3 cartons.

So I got a call from a woman in the next town and I went over to show her what I had. She was taking care of the minister and his wife. They were both in the slow process of dying at home. The minister had emphysema and was in the living room hooked up to oxygen. His wife had something else and was confined to bed in the bedroom. She was down to skin and bone from her illness.

So the caregiver went in to see if the Depends would fit the dying woman. In the mean time, I sat and talked to the minister in the living room. What surprised me was that he told me he was afraid because he didn't know where he would go when he died. I could hardly believe I was hearing that from a minister who said he had his own church for many decades in Florida.

I honestly didn't know what to say; talk about being in an awkward situation.
I wanted to help him but in what way could I possibly do that? I didn't really know why he doubted where he was going. Had he done something terrible that he thought was unforgiveable? Or, did he somehow lose his faith? Perhaps it was the situation he was in with both he and his wife being incapacitated at the same time. I suppose that could do it.

He might have wondered why God had forsaken him and his wife and left them both to die slowly in such a miserable way. They couldn't help each other and couldn't themselves. The only help seemed to be the neighbor who came to look in on them a few times a day.

Where was his congregation? I don't know. His yard looked like a jungle of trees, bushes and weeds. It all looked like it hadn't been cared for in over a year.

If he was a minister who served God most of his life, where was God in his time of need?
Doubt, even the strongest doubt is part of faith, not separate. I don't know this particular minister but know many, real doubt causes us to search our hearts deeply and can be a long time before we surface and become stronger. I know this minister was human, I don't know his background for I've seen some struggle through 12 years of seminary and others simply walk to the front of the church, have hands laid on them and become ordained. I'm not judging either but point out all are human, prone to error and all are not the same but doubt even in the strongest, is a part of faith.

[kittygilchrist]

.....this is a forum to speak what you feel and or believe, and saying that someone who does not agree with you and your beliefs, that they are the spirit antichrist, of lucifer, that is not right, and the way I see it not very christian like...we live in the USA not 1940's Germany. We should all be able to debate what we feel.

Read carefully please. Many of us disagree. But certain behaviors are indeed demonic.
Speaking of the 40's, I was at Yad Vashem last week looking at thousands of shoes dropped in a pile by Jews on their way to being gassed. What God loves, satan hates.

[sunnyatlast]

.....this is a forum to speak what you feel and or believe, and saying that someone who does not agree with you and your beliefs, that they are the spirit antichrist, of lucifer, that is not right, and the way I see it not very christian like...we live in the USA not 1940's Germany. We should all be able to debate what we feel.

PLEASE. She did NOT say that people in disagreement here "are the spirit antichrist, of lucifer".

She said "I am surely not alone in perceiving the spirit antichrist, of lucifer, revving up in the world, against anything of God, as has been mildly demonstrated here."

Tolerant people would understand her statement to mean that the influence of the spirit antichrist, lucifer, is "revving up in the world".

And this thread on this forum certainly is not "the world"!!!!!!!!

[ureout]

PLEASE. She did NOT say that people in disagreement here "are the spirit antichrist, of lucifer".

She said "I am surely not alone in perceiving the spirit antichrist, of lucifer, revving up in the world, against anything of God, as has been mildly demonstrated here."

Tolerant people would understand her statement to mean that the influence of the spirit antichrist, lucifer, is "revving up in the world".

And this thread on this forum certainly is not "the world"!!!!!!!!

then i have a different understanding of the english language....to me when i read being DEMONSTRATED HERE.....then what does that mean, if not the people posting on this site

[bimmertl]

No doubt my prayers aren't being answered. This thread continues.

[kittygilchrist]

No doubt my prayers aren't being answered. This thread continues.

Did you really pray that? I will join you.

[ureout]

You do have a fresh point about debate and read well, but there is an undercurrent. See post 61 for an ex. Of a personal slap directed at GG that the mod and I knew the origin of.
From old hateful, not old faithful. Known for taking various names (note 666 in this new profile name, symbol of the antichrist)...and for making derisively gouging verbosities.

i understand what you are saying and yes i do know what the 666 stands for....im just saying, from where I sit back and read some of these posts that everyone should be able to post what they feel.... you should have known when you started this post that there would be many backing you....and some disagreeing with you.....the point i was trying to make is that I dont believe that anyone that happens to disagree with your personal religous beliefs should be called the spirit antichrist....no more than i should have said that your post was not christianlike

[kittygilchrist]

i understand what you are saying and yes i do know what the 666 stands for....im just saying, from where I sit back and read some of these posts that everyone should be able to post what they feel.... you should have known when you started this post that there would be many backing you....and some disagreeing with you.....the point i was trying to make is that I dont believe that anyone that happens to disagree with your personal religous beliefs should be called the spirit antichrist....no more than i should have said that your post was not christianlike

I get you.
Well done.
I expected opposition..post 1.

[Sophie11]

Spirit of antichrist! If the shoe does fit please wear it.

[Gramps666]

Yes I believe a woman should not teach next to a man because a man can only see the woman not because she is not capable to teach. I believe a woman should also cover her head in church because again - hair is a woman's glory and it will take glory from GOD as a man has been wired to look upon a woman. LOT had sex with his daughters because back then the human body was perfect and there was no genetic defects and to populate the earth that was how it was accomplished.

Back then incest was OK but not today? If it comes out of the Good Book then it must be OK with the individual who inspired that book.

But at least you are giving it some thought.

[sunnyatlast]

then i have a different understanding of the english language....to me when i read being DEMONSTRATED HERE.....then what does that mean, if not the people posting on this site

As kitty said, certain behaviors are demonic (in nature). Behaviors "mildly demonstrated here" are behaviors, not people.

[Gramps666]

The Bible is a holy book. Presidents have been sworn in with their hand on the Bible. It is a symbol of importance to many.

If you want to debate any books held sacred by any religion, there are scholars everywhere to defend them and skeptics to dismiss them.

Catholics do not hold with the literal interpretation and there are Christians of all kinds with different ideas of what the Bible means, from literal interpretation to historical information and guidance. I think caring and love is the hallmark of most religions, but are not limited to them.

I think that you are typing to just hurt and to anger..

Graciegirl, I'm looking for answers and yet finding very few. I'm not out to hurt anyone. But I do find that people get offended when I quote the Bible to back up my stances. I use specific passages, just like everyone else..even religious leaders. Tomorrow Billy Graham will have one in The Sun.

So, instead of name calling when you read something about religion which goes against your beliefs, try giving some answers. I've had several Biblical questions on here. And some of them actually had to do with prayer.

[Tennisnut]

Wow! Just got through reading all this. Religion is worse than politics and wars have and continue to be fought over both (even on TOTV!). Politics is of this world and religion is built on faith of another world. No one will ever win this battle over religion. This is personal decision.

[sunnyatlast]

Wow! Just got through reading all this. Religion is worse than politics and wars have and continue to be fought over both (even on TOTV!). Politics is of this world and religion is built on faith of another world. No one will ever win this battle over religion. This is personal decision.

You do realize that our nation is not a theocracy in which religion and politics are one and the same, but those who are infiltrating and scheming to wipe our nation off the planet ARE theocracies…..?

It would be wise to both identify and know about our nation's enemies.

[Patty55]

As a recovering Cafeteria Catholic I don't have any bible quotes to share, but I do believe in the power of prayer.

Call it what you will... Prayer? Meditation? I think some positive energy is always a good thing.

[Tennisnut]

You do realize that our nation is not a theocracy in which religion and politics are one and the same, but those who are infiltrating and scheming to wipe our nation off the planet ARE theocracies…..?

It would be wise to both identify and know about our nation's enemies.

I agree we are not theocracy and theocracies exist. However, I really don't understand why your concern over these nations has to do with this bickering over quotes from the bible.

[sunnyatlast]

I agree we are not theocracy and theocracies exist. However, I really don't understand why your concern over these nations has to do with this bickering over quotes from the bible.

I didn't think this was "bickering over quotes from the Bible". I thought the thread was about prayer and the need to pray for ourselves, for others, and for our nation. But that endeavor was mocked and ridiculed. As Christ predicted.

And so we'll keep on praying.