What is there to know about the "Developers?" Haven't heard much good.

[graciegirl]

There name is/ are Schwartz. I know that. I heard they were from Cincinnati. That is usually good. Are they? There is a statue of one on a lily pad somewhere. Is he a frog or a prince?

How about his sisters, cousins, aunts, heirs and assigns who own and run The Villages? Are they real? Do they live there? Does anyone have a real live developer siting or experience? Does anyone know THEM????? ;D

[chuckster]

You're kidding ...right?? ;D

[jadebox]

Schwartz was Daddy who founded TV. He died. There is a statue on SS square with his ashes in it. His son, grandchildren and maybe great grand children head up most things in TV. Most live here. They have created the closest thing I have seen to a paradise. They are now rich and I am glad because that means they have been successful in creating The Villages. There are jealous people who seem to think making money is bad. I may be wrong but think they are from Chicago.
I LOVE THE VILLAGES!!!!

[graciegirl]

Allow me to add that I have only heard good about the villages, what I have heard about the developers is/are.....sort of what the peasants might hear about the lord of the castle.

I am not kidding. I asked sister in school about the saints and asked if they were all good. She didn't say "You're kidding, right?". I always wanted to know everything, and occasionally it got me in dutch. I didn't mean to insult you dear sweet always helpful villagers at TOTV! You have been more than patient with me so far.

Oh dear. >:(

[samhass]

I'm with you on this. I greatly admire the Morse's. Why is being rich a negative????
They earned it. They didn't force anyone to buy into Paradise. Thank goodness they had the foresight to build this place. It could have just as easily gone bust, though. It took enormous intestinal fortitude to do what they have done.





Schwartz was Daddy who founded TV. He died. There is a statue on SS square with his ashes in it. His son, grandchildren and maybe great grand children head up most things in TV. Most live here. They have created the closest thing I have seen to a paradise. They are now rich and I am glad because that means they have been successful in creating The Villages. There are jealous people who seem to think making money is bad. I may be wrong but think they are from Chicago.
I LOVE THE VILLAGES!!!!

[Barefoot]

IMHO, the Developers put their brains, creativity and money on the line when they created this Paradise which we are all enjoying. I hope they're rich as sin .. they deserve it.

[redwitch]

To me, the developers are what they are -- a family that had the foresight to come up with a good concept and the ability to implement it. No question that I would not deal with TV for purchasing a piece of property unless I truly had no choice (I have a thing about not being able to negotiate the price, closing costs, etc. when purchasing a home). I don't like their politics since I seem (???) to be diametrically opposed to their conservatism. There's the negatives in my mind.

The positives are the creation of TV. The ability to keep the majority of residents happy most of the time. We are relatively safe here. Our streets are clean. There is enough open space to make TV a beautiful place no matter direction is taken. We are well entertained for incredibly reasonable prices. The Schwartzes gave us all of that.

They've earned their money and power. They certainly have a right to keep as much of both as they wish and have the ability to do so. We may rail against them at times, but we'd be fools to not realize we owe them a huge thanks.

[Rokinronda]

I think they are brilliant! The Villages was founded by Harold Schwartz who made his fortune in the hospitality business in Traverse City, Mich., before taking his village-style concept to Central Florida about 4 decades ago. Designing the massive project was the same architectural firm that created Universal Studios at Walt Disney World, explaining the community's Southwestern theme. This is Paradise! Whether rich or poor we are all very much enjoying "The Villages Lifestyle" and I for one will always respect Mr. Schwartz's vision. I don't think constructive criticism hurts the developers. There is always room for improvement, as Mr. Schwartz and family have proven!!

[chelsea24]

Hope2forever, I'm from Chicago, so I don't quite get your comment there. I love the Villages and greatly admire Mr. Schwartz for his foresight and creativity and his family the Morses for taking his idea and probably making it 100 times better than even he imagined. I believe they deserve every penny they get. My hubby and I have also worked hard all of our lives and it has paid off by allowing us to live in The Villages and the wonderful lifestyle that comes with it. When we moved here 5 months ago, we found a couple of old friends that were envious. So one day I said to this "old friend??" who seemed to want to find negatives because of jealousy, I said "well, if your hubby had gone to gone to college for 8 years, took a chance at a very young age and opened a clinic, worked long long hours, and turned it into a successful practice for 35 years, and if you had gone to college (had to work your way through it) worked in a cut throat field for 25 years, while taking care of a ailing parent, maybe you too could enjoy The Villages. I feel that every person here deserves to live in this paradise. I know we do! And, I thank the Morses and Mr. Schwartz for providing it.

Graciegirl, you'll love it here! :welcome:

[KathieI]

There name is/ are Schwartz. I know that. I heard they were from Cincinnati. That is usually good. Are they? There is a statue of one on a lily pad somewhere. Is he a frog or a prince?

How about his sisters, cousins, aunts, heirs and assigns who own and run The Villages? Are they real? Do they live there? Does anyone have a real live developer siting or experience? Does anyone know THEM????? ;D

Gracie, I'm glad you asked the question. I never knew either and it developed a thread of good information about the family (whether it be positive or negative.)

Good question as usual, Graciegirl. Thanks for being inquisitive.

Kath :redface:

[Donna]

:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

They worked hard for their money and I hope they live a very long life to enjoy every penny...God Bless them for giving us The Villages! :#1:

[nONIE]

Graciegirl,

Very curious to know who you have heard the not much good from?????

My guess its from jealous non TV people who have no idea what a wonderful place TV is, or mabe they have! Hence the jealousy!

I think it all goes back to , you have to live here to understand how incredible a place TV is, its just too difficult to explain! ;D

In my estimation, Mr. Schwartz is a Prince among men!

[swrinfla]

A little perspective from a 3-year resident.

I'm told that Harold Schwartz (who died not long before I came) was not only a genius in creating The Villages, but was also the epitome of a Villager, in that he wandered around the neighborhood (for the most part, that portion some now call the "prehistoric" section, on the east side of US27/441), calling out to all he saw, knowing their names, where they were from and all that sort of intimate knowledge.

In my three years, I have never knowingly seen Gary Morse. Mark Morse makes an annual appearance at a VHA event (always at the filled-to-overflowing Savannah Center), comes across well in his discussion of Villages philosophies, policies, progress, etc. But, he seldom stays around for questions, slips out the side door immediately.

I hear periodic tales of rude and snobbish treatment by other members of the family, but, never having met, let alone even seen, any of them, I cannot say one way or the other.

Suffice to say, I guess, that the Morses have earned my appreciation for their overall adherence to Harold's vision, but they seem not to have picked up on his "public relations" concepts. Too bad!

SWR

[graciegirl]

What I had heard negative and it was not from residents but people who live in Florida but not TV;

The homes are not built too well and there is not a wide variety of finish choices. I.e, the developers are making a huge margin. (I don't agree, but I have only been inside one, a new one in Poinciana where my friends live)

There is some problem with Taxation without representations, the residents have no say about the development at all. ??

The area centers are not decorated by professionals, and look a bit tacky, because the owners don't like to spend extra money.
(I don't know. Never saw them. How tacky? I don't have to worry about showing Aunt Mildred, she's gone!)

The developers are not very available and are aloof and snooty.. This from a friend who lives in Orlando and is a snob. I don't know how she would know this but she is Society with a capital S, and I wouldn't dare challenge her. She went to school with me and well, I shouldn't listen to her at all.

This is all not important at all. I just loved hearing the tale from Swrinfla about Mr. Schwartz the original, knowing everyone and being friendly. I certainly have no problem with anyone making honest money on an excellent idea. I just wondered about their personalities. I know now they are Morses, from Michigan originally and rich. Good for them.

[Taltarzac]

They took the risk with buying the land and marketing the idea of the Villages, so they deserve the money they have received from what they have developed here in the Villages. I can think of many other people who have done far less for others' dreams coming true but who have probably done far better in finances than the developers of TV.

I doubt if all of the members of the Villages' developers share the same political views as Mr. Gary Morse.

It seems they are many people who have tried or will try to develop something along the same idea as the Villages.

Many of the recreational centers I have been in are rather tastefully decorated. :bigthumbsup:

[golfnut]

Reading this thread leads me to believe Gary Morse is Harold Schwartz's son, anyone know why his last name is different??

[Muncle]

I cannot vouch for the absolute truth of everything in the following article or any slant the writer might have. It comes from 2005 article and is a really good synopsis of TV. Answers a lot of questions:

It Takes a Village

Equal parts Aldous Huxley and Walt Disney, Gary Morse's brave new world vision puts lots of hyper in active adult.

VILLAGE PEOPLE: Immigration at a rate like nowhere else in the nation is what makes The Villages an off-the-charts active adult phenomenon, where amenities rule.

Source: BIG BUILDER Magazine
Publication date: April 1, 2005


By Theresa Burney


ROSELYN AND BOB GRIBBLE REALIZED JUST HOW much control The Villages developer has over this Central Florida community when they went shopping at the local furniture store a year ago.

A sales rep at Southern Lifestyles Fine Furnishings typed the address of their under-construction home into a computer and the floor plan popped up. The couple bought furniture for the house. On the day they closed on their home, the furniture had been delivered and put in place. This developer has got it all covered, says Bob Gribble. They own the bank and the furniture store.

Not to mention the community's local water utility, real estate, insurance, and mortgage companies, assisted living facility, The Villages' Daily Sun newspaper, WVLG-AM 640 radio station, and VNN cable TV station. Representatives of the developer also operate the community's dozens of amenities, from golf courses and tennis courts to polo fields and recreational facilities.

Buyers are typically so dazzled after touring the 20-square-mile development between Ocala and Orlando that they spend little time dwelling on the developer's local monopoly before they ante up for a lot.

The Villages sold 3,955 homes for better than $800 million in revenue last year, one home every two hours and 13 minutes making it the fastest growing master planned community in the U.S. in 2004, according to Robert Charles Lesser & Co. It eclipsed the No. 2 player, Avatar's nearby Poinciana, by 1,176 homes.

The Villages was No. 25 on BUILDER magazine's BUILDER 100 listing in 2003, reporting $668 million in gross revenue, a 44 percent increase from the year before. And it was also the only builder in the top 50 doing that much business in one location. It's been pretty wild, says Gary Lester, vice president of community relations for The Villages. And it's likely to continue to be.

Ryan Mathews, a futurist and CEO of Black Monk Consulting, says a development like The Villages is attractive to those on the cusp of the baby boom generation because they like to be around other people like themselves, who are writing new rules about what retirement is about. These are not people getting ready to die. They are getting ready to go to a party, says Mathews.

Visitors, as in the case of the Gribbles, often decide to buy within hours of touring the community. Even if they are a little uneasy with the developer's control, they are entranced with his product and a little in awe of his business acumen. It's pure capitalism and it works, says Bob Gribble. We bought into the whole thing. We even put our money in their bank, says Roselyn Gribble. At last year's rate of sales, 145 new people moved in each week. Amenities and lifestyle, rather than the houses themselves, lead buyers to hand over their cash at first sight, residents say.

It is difficult for buyers not to be impressed with a community that's an adult Disney World. There are two quaint Main Streets with stores and restaurants, and two transportation centers where buses leave for airports and other excursions. Landscaping is so pristine that a weed hardly gets a chance to root before it is plucked out and replaced with a flowering annual.

And there are so many activities that it should probably be labeled a hyperactive adult community. Residents crisscross the community in their golf carts, not only to tee off but for groceries, belly dancing, billiards, swimming, movies, college courses, two-for-one happy hours, and free entertainment every night at the two town squares. Even the new hospital is accessible via golf cart paths that burrow beneath the streets via tunnels.

The Villages is so self-contained that there are residents who seldom leave its boundaries. Others don't want to. We call it our bubble, says one-year resident Lynda Pearce. You don't want to visit the kids or anything, chimed in Roselyn Gribble.

The Morse Code

Many developers would be eager to share the details of growing what was a sleepy and unprofitable community of 400 manufactured homes in 1983 to a lively series of individual villages with about 24,000 homes and 47,000 people in 2005. But The Villages President H. Gary Morse turned down interview requests. Mr. Morse is a modest man, says company spokesman Lester.

Morse is said to be quiet, even shy. He keeps business dealings quiet and in the family. A son runs day-today operations. One daughter is in charge of architecture and interior design. Another is sales manager. A son-in-law is in charge of commercial and professional real estate. Clearly, though, Morse is at the helm.

He is like Walt Disney, a visionary, says John Rohan, an administrator of The Villages' newest development districts. Like Disney, he waxes dramatic. Morse, who lives on a chunk of land in the development, keeps a herd of buffalo that residents take their grandchildren to feed.

And he wields power. The development recently got state approval for a new hospital without having to go through the lengthy certificate of need approval process. Last fall, President George W. Bush showed up in The Villages on a campaign swing. Morse ranks as a top-25 Republican Party fundraiser, and there's a 2-to-1 Republican majority among Village residents.

If Morse made The Villages profitable, it was his father, Harold Schwartz, who is credited with founding The Villages. Unlike the shy Morse, Schwartz, who died in December 2003 at age 93, was often seen walking about the community, talking to residents. He and Morse got into the business of selling thousands of acres in New Mexico and Florida by mail order in the 1950s and 1960s. They sold land in central Florida for $10 down and $10 a month until the Florida Legislature banned mail-order land sales in 1969. That left Schwartz holding a lot of land in Florida.

Schwartz started what would become The Villages as a manufactured home community in 1972 under the name of his land company called Orange Blossom Hills. In 1983, the development on U.S. Highway 27/441 had 400 homes and, with less than $2-million in sales, was unprofitable.

Schwartz bought all the company's stock in 1983 and put in a new management team led by his son

. Under Morse's leadership the business started turning a profit. By 1987, the development had $40 million in annual sales and more than $4-million in profits, the bond documents say. In 1989, The Villages began constructing site-built homes. Sales remained steady until 1997, when the first town center was completed, and sales jumped from 753 to 1,054 homes. From there, sales climbed steadily by about 300 more homes each year until 2002, when the numbers began to multiply exponentially, before jumping close to 4,000 last year.

The Villages used to boast impressive stats on construction details but the construction pace has accelerated to the point where such numbers become obsolete almost immediately. The Villages hires six contractors to build the houses it sells and it's safe to say they employ thousands of workers, says Lester. It's an army, and it's an army on the move, he says. The Villages itself also employs thousands as well: 2,289 in 2004.

Jay Thompson, who runs Del Webb's Spruce Creek Country Club community a few miles from The Villages, says the development's independent family ownership has allowed them to be nimble and to take big risks. They made some really bold, and what proved to be appropriate, decisions back in the late 80s and 90s, says Thompson.

Investing in the community's first town center, a Ponce de Leon-themed mecca designed by Universal Studios architects Forrec Ltd. was a watershed event that sparked The Village's building explosion. The town center gave the community a heart and a place to gather. And it gave The Village's marketing department a theme to build on. The Villages, where the smiles shine all year round. The Villages, Florida's friendliest hometown, became the community's jingle. Their first town center was a paradigm shift for what was really a sleepy little subdivision, says Thompson. That was a significant investment top notch.

The town went up so fast that it startled development consultant Daryl Spradley as he drove by one night in the late 1990s. "I stopped my car, opened the door, stood up and said, 'My God.' I was overwhelmed at what was happening in the middle of nowhere," says Spradley. "Ever since, it's been on our radar screen."

The Villages has since grown to two town centers. Sumter Landing Town Square, themed to look like a Key-West style village with a lighthouse on the shores of a newly dug lake and its own fake historical plaques, opened last year. A third is on its way.

Innovative Financing

Both town squares and the residential areas were developed by creating Community Development Districts (CDDs)-special-purpose government entities that were written into Florida law in 1980. For The Villages, which created its first CDD in 1992 to build its first town square, infrastructure means far more than streets. Bond money also built the development's many golf courses, tennis courts, swimming pools, recreation complexes, and the Savannah Center, a performing arts hall. "CDDs gave them the capital that they needed to really launch the community," says Thompson. "That was clearly the point where they moved from the sleepy little trailer park to the community behemoth they are today."

Through assessments, residents pay a bill for the infrastructure in their neighborhood that varies from $100 to $250 a month. Another monthly assessment of $119 covers the development's amenities. The mandatory monthly assessment fee buys residents access to every amenity, including free golf on all the executive golf courses and access to the development's country clubs.

"For five years we went everywhere from Miami to North Carolina," says Ron Pearce, who moved to The Villages about a year ago from Miami with his wife, Lynda. "Other communities pointed to the houses and said they would be adding amenities. Every time we went back, they [the amenities] weren't done. Here, we saw first-hand what we were going to get."

The houses themselves are unremarkable, starting at $110,000 for a villa, and climbing well beyond the $200,000 starter price for designer homes. No problem. "When you come, you are not in the house anyway," says Jean Shawley, who moved to The Villages from Pennsylvania 4 1/2 years ago with husband, Barry. She's out at dawn to dance, then meets up with her husband for afternoon golf. Most evenings, they're at the town center, for more dancing.

The couple visited other retirement communities before deciding to buy in The Villages, but was turned off because they never saw anybody outside. One look at The Villages and the couple decided to buy within a few hours. "We saw all these active people," Shawley says.

Active adult communities can help shield younger seniors from society in general, where younger people discount them as obsolete and those from their parents' Depression-era generation chastise them for frivolous ways. "I think creating meaningful community for people as they age is going to be one of the significant social challenges that America has ever faced," says futurist M athews. "And there is going to be a huge fortune for people who are willing to do it correctly."

Getting The Word Out

Residents have become the developer's best marketing tool. They tell their friends and families how happy they are and pressure them to visit and buy. "We have got some folks who are almost in a competition to bring in the most residents," says Pete Wahl, district manager for The Villages Community Development Districts. Some residents are so industrious that they essentially recreate their hometown in Florida.

"We had one guy who, I think, brought 150 families here," says Wahl. "And we have got one street that is made up of one family." But the rate of growth is far beyond that of any small town. "I am basically recreating my own hometown four times a year," says Wahl, who grew up in a small town in the Midwest.

Drive through a new neighborhood under construction, and it is common to see a dozen homes in various stages of construction within a few block area. "They are organized, very well organized," says Jim Holland, president of building materials for Hughes Supply Inc., which built a facility at The Villages in the 1990s and has since built a bigger one to meet the development's materials needs.

"They do an excellent job running their business and they forecast well," Holland says. "They can pretty much tell you how many homes they are going to sell next week, next month, and they finish when they say they will."

The development's bond documents project that The Villages will continue to build homes at the current pace until 2012, when the 20,256-acre development reaches build-out at 55,960 homes and about 100,000 people. That pace may be a challenge to maintain, says Spradley, the development consultant.

"There are major labor issues around Florida and not having the ability to get enough craftsmen to deliver finished product could be a problem," says Spradley.

Plus, as the development grows to the size of a good-sized city, it may lose the feeling of small-town life and community the developer has managed to nurture and grow, says Thompson of Del Webb's nearby community. Keeping the community feel that has made the development a success, "that is their challenge now," says Thompson. For now, Gary Morse's code is signaling unabated growth.

It's About The Amenities

The Villages offer enough activities to earn the title of "hyperactive" adult community. Here is what highly amenitized living looks like at a glance:

Two town squares with free entertainment nightly
Two movie theaters with eight screens each and stadium seating
18 executive golf courses available to residents for only a cart fee
7 championship golf courses
30-plus tennis courts
26 pools
5 softball fields
2 bowling centers
A professional polo field
A performing arts center
A wellness center
A woodworking shop
Hundreds of clubs that run the gamut from "dirty Uno" to kite flying
12 recreation centers
74 shuffleboard courts
72 bocce ball courts
56 pickleball courts (a sport played with a whiffle ball and a ping pong paddle in an area half the size of a tennis court)
57 billiards tables
53 horseshoe pits
A buffalo herd

Using Other People's Money

A secret to what has made The Villages such a phenomenon has been press-shy developer H. Gary Morse's strategy to borrow money to build the community like governments do. He issues non-taxable bonds with an interest rate of 2 percent to 2.5 percent. And he pays no state sales tax on goods and services, saving 6 percent on all purchases.

That's because his mega-community is being developed by 12 little governments called Community Development Districts (CDDs). In Florida, CDDs are special-purpose local governments approved by cities and counties to provide specific functions for its residents. The districts provide infrastructure and tax residents for it in the form of assessments and fees. Traditionally, a developer finances the infrastructure and then pays off his debt with home sales. In contrast, The Villages sells bonds to build the infrastructure and the residents are assessed a fee to pay off the debt. They also pay assessments for maintaining infrastructure. Elected officers manage CDD communities. In the early years of the projects, before there are many homeowners, the developer appoints the officers.

Although no exact numbers are available, industry observers say the CDD or special government method of financing is on the rise, though the details differ from state to state. They are useful for developers facing increasingly high up-front development costs because CDDs take the burden of financing projects off their shoulders and puts it on homebuyers.

"Access to the capital markets provides the ability to produce infrastructure and amenities at a high level and a high quality early on in projects," says Stanley Geberer, an associate and senior economist for Fishkind & Associates, which helps developers establish CDDs.

Governments tend to like them because CDDs relieve cash-strapped cities and counties from infrastructure costs while increasing the tax base, says Keyvan Izadi, a land-use planner for the NAHB. For homeowners, CDDs provide an entity designed to take care of infrastructure in perpetuity and a way to pay for it.

But the funding method does have a down side, says Jim Nicholas, a professor of law and urban planning for the state of Florida, who helped draft Florida's CDD law, which won approval in 1980. The costs of setting up a CDD can be prohibitive for all but larger developments. And, even though governments do tend to like CDDs at first, they can develop a love-hate relationship with them over time, as CDDs start doing things that governments do, and residents start complaining that they are being taxed twice. The financing method has also come under some criticism in Florida, where the powers of CDD districts tend to be broader than other states, says Nicholas.

[JohnnyM]

Muncle, you never cease to amaze me...

[Village Kid 2]

Muncle, great article. Thanks for finding it and posting.

All I can say to the Schwartz/Morse family is BRAVO, job well done! :#1: :bigthumbsup:

VK2

[graciegirl]

MUNCIE. Great minds run in the same channel. I had just found that very article and sent it on to my husband. AKA Sweetie.

[drdodge]

When Gary's mother divorced Harold and married a man named Morse,this became Garys last name. Go on the internet and plug in Morse and it will give you alot of Swartz and Morse history
drd

[uujudy]

Designing the massive project was the same architectural firm that created Universal Studios at Walt Disney World, explaining the community's Southwestern theme.

AHA! That explains it. When we heard that the theme for the new town square would be cowboys we were a tad disappointed ... I understand that Florida had quite a few cowboys or cow hunters, but we have cowboys coming out of our ears here in Utah! I guess I hoped the theme would be more, um, tropical?

[uujudy]

Muncle, thanks so much for the article! :bow: :clap2:
It answered so many of my questions! :bigthumbsup:

[jjdees]

Thanks for the article Muncle. Hadn't seen it before. It's the best history of TV I've seen.

[chelsea24]

:-* Wow Muncle, that is a great article. Thanks for posting it. :bigthumbsup:

[smalldog]

Much of the disenchantment with the developers is only marginally their fault such as dealing with the real estate people here... Strictly caveat emptor no matter what or how much house you are talked into ......... Also the vinyl siding issue south of 466 ( although a lot of that is currently being resolved, following a struggle) .... the adversarial way the administrators react when you try to talk with them .... is that a developers function ??
and of course we all would be king and change things to our individual perceptions of what should be ......... probably 90% or more of living here in TV is great but sorry it is not yet heaven, that comes next, I hope .......... LOL

[bimmertl]

Let's not forget the recent litigation against the developer. The developer tried to pull a fast one and not provide amenities etc. agreed upon with the residents. The developer hoped nobody noticed. Fortunately, some residents did and sued. As a result the developer had to cough up over $40 million to upgrade trails, facilities etc. in addition to paying over $7 million in legal fees paid to the prevailing parties.

Based upon the amounts involved the developer was certainly more than "marginally" at fault.

Great place to live and developer has done a great job overall, but it certainly appears that on ocassion, money, not the needs of the residents or contractuall obligations, is the primary driver behind some of their actions.

[Lil Dancer]

Graciegirl, I don't agree that the homes are of not good quality. I have an engineering background, and my husband and I did a pretty close inspection of the home before buying (a gardenia) and feel that our home is quite good quality. A plus for the developers, in my opinion, is the way the immediately came to the rescue of people whose homes had been damaged by the tornado last year. The tornado hit at night, and the very next morning, construction crews that had previously been laid off, were sent to put temporary tarps on the roofs of damaged homes, to prevent water damage. That same day, crews were sent in to begin picking up the incredible amounts of storm debris. We have friends in Punta Gorda, an area that has still not recovered from hurricane damage a few years ago, but The villages looks like new.

As far as the decorating of the rec centers, I guess it depends on which ones you go in. When you visit, check out the O'Dell center, on O'Dell circle. Its new, and its done in an African theme - absolutely beautiful. Coconut cove, in Mallory is a another really pretty one - its a tropical theme.

We always felt that it was pretty hard to find the "perfect 10" retirement community. There are always compromises. In our mind, the activities offered in The Villages make it the place we want to be, at least for now.

[gfmucci]

The area centers are not decorated by professionals,* and look a bit tacky, because the owners don't like to spend extra money. (I don't know. Never saw them. How tacky?*
You ask "How tacky????"

That's like running off with the rumor someone is ugly, assuming its true, then asking publicly how ugly is she?* That's quite an assumption.

Actually, my wife and I believe the "centers" are decorated fabulously.* Their appearance is one among the hundreds of reasons we chose to buy in TV.* But then again, we might be just mere tasteless boors who know nothing about the way a center ought to be decorated.

[gfmucci]

Muncle, can you post a similar article updated to April 10, 2008?

[graciegirl]

Now everyone, remember that I didn't say these things.(Houses being of poor quality, decorating in centers being tacky) I was repeating what I had heard and was asking for clarification. I have certainly learned a lot and reaffirmed what I knew about human nature. I.E. When you love something or someone you tend to be a little defensive. I find that VERY reassuring about a place I hope to call home one of these days.

[Muncle]

Muncle, can you post a similar article updated to April 10, 2008?


Sure.

It Takes a Village

Equal parts Aldous Huxley and Walt Disney, Gary Morse's brave new world vision puts lots of hyper in active adult.

VILLAGE PEOPLE: Immigration at a rate like nowhere else in the nation is what makes The Villages an off-the-charts active adult phenomenon, where amenities rule.

Source: BIG BUILDER Magazine
Publication date: April 10, 2008


By Theresa Burney


ROSELYN AND BOB GRIBBLE REALIZED JUST HOW much control The Villages developer has over this Central Florida community when they went shopping at the local furniture store a year ago.

shortened to save space. to read the rest, refer to earlier dated article above.

[chelsea24]

Our house is beautifully and well built. Hey, I'm a bricklayer/contractor's kid so I do know what to look for. And as for the rec centers, one just keeps topping the previous. They are all beautiful. Different themes. My girlfriends is a decorator and she came down here and was walking around in awe. She had to visit them all from the oldest to the newest and seem if she could grab some ideas for Illinois. I can't say enough about TV. Defensive? No. Just the truth. ;)

[Muncle]

Tacky is totally a personal taste thing. The decor in the local rec centers is generally very understated. They're all somewhat unique, but are designed more for functionality, i.e., meetings, billiards, cards, small-scale food. The bigger places are more elaborate and each has a fairly unique motif. Of the new ones, Miona is very nautical while Colony Cottage is, uh, well, mmm, kinda like a Cracker Barrel designer went nuts. Okay, unfair. I've only seen the place twice. The decor is foo foo in the extreme, lots of lacy stuff, but once you get over the saccharine rush, it's really neat. I actually like it a lot, though I would hate to be responsible for keeping it clean. And I love the long stairway to the faux second floor. (I will be directing someone up those stairs to a meeting in the 2nd floor conference room, but then y'all know I can be a jerk.)

Like the decor in each Country Club is unique and appeals to different people, the same can be said of the Rec Centers and, for that matter, the town squares. And none may appeal to some people. That's fine. If someone finds the decor tacky, the developer snobbish and off-putting, the governmental structure less than they desire, the golf courses and bowling alleys too crowded, the restaurants inferior and/or overpriced, the covenants too restrictive, or the construction too inferior, the highway they came in on has two lanes. TV is not for everyone and thank God we live in a society that allows us the choice.

[graciegirl]

Giggle, cough, pursing of lips...........Not defensive Huh? You all LOVE the place and you don't LIKE the slightest bit of criticism. I don't want to go down the highway the other way. I think I want to live there with you. I just wanted to know. I JUST WANTED TO KNOW. I will be there on Monday with my husband (aka Sweetie) and my daughter, who lives with us and will be living with us there. HOPEFULLY, if you don't find us all...Tacky.

[Muncle]

Giggle, cough, pursing of lips...........Not defensive Huh? You all LOVE the place and you don't LIKE the slightest bit of criticism. I don't want to go down the highway the other way. I think I want to live there with you. I just wanted to know. I JUST WANTED TO KNOW. I will be there on Monday with my husband (aka Sweetie) and my daughter, who lives with us and will be living with us there. HOPEFULLY, if you don't find us all...Tacky.


These posts have hardly been defensive. Yes, the majority of people who live here like it, most of them a lot. It would be totally asinine to feel otherwise. There may be a lot of reasons why one wouldn't like it, but not many for not liking it and still living here. Yes, there are warts, and almost everyone will admit it. But my wart is another person's beauty mark. (That's a disgusting image :barf: ) To each his own. But if a person finds the place to be unsatisfactory, then that person is an idiot to move here. And I for one would hate to have that person as a neighbor. When one does not have a choice as to where they must live, they have to put up with :edit:. When they have a choice, and they find what they consider to be :edit: then for their own sake as well as everyone else involved, they need to grab that outbound lane.

I think I speak for many of the folks here when I say that we think you'll be very pleasantly surprised with TV and the more of it you experience, the more you will want to move here. And if that is the case, all here will be very happy for you and will welcome you to our community with open arms.

[Time for Tee]

Muncle thank you so much for the history. Everything you have said about the development :agree: :agree: Not tacky! Everything and everbody is just comfortable --like a old pair of shoes. We left Palm Springs, Calif. to live here and if you asked me five years ago if I would move to Fl. and even worse Cental Florida we would have both laughed. This was a love affair at first sight! :welcome: :welcome: to all!! See for yourself what we are talking about.

[gfmucci]

Sure. [color=maroon][i]It Takes a Village Equal parts Aldous Huxley and Walt Disney, Gary Morse's brave new world vision puts lots of hyper in active adult. VILLAGE PEOPLE: Immigration at a rate like nowhere else in the nation is what makes The Villages an off-the-charts active adult phenomenon, where amenities rule. Source: BIG BUILDER Magazine
Publication date: April 10, 2008

By Theresa Burney [/b]
Thanks, Muncle...exactly what I was looking for. ;) :joke:

[gfmucci]

Now everyone, remember that I didn't say these things.(Houses being of poor quality, decorating in centers being tacky) I was repeating what I had heard and was asking for clarification.
The "how tacky" was a quote from you, not your friend, unless that was a slip of the computer keys.

"(I don't know. Never saw them. How tacky? I don't have to worry about showing Aunt Mildred, she's gone!)"

[graciegirl]

Oh for Petes sake!

[len1101]

The developers, (the Morse brothers) Grew up in Northern Michigan. Torch Lake-Petoskey area. Their Sister still lives there. Any visitors to that area may remember Brownwood Acres.
That is part of the Morse family (sister). If you are lucky, you can get a ride on the yacht that is usually docked at Charlevoix, Mi. It was their money that started this place.

[Barefoot]

Giggle, cough, pursing of lips...........Not defensive Huh? You all LOVE the place and you don't LIKE the slightest bit of criticism.

Whoa now Gracie .... starting a topic entitled "What is there to know about the Developers? Haven't heard much good" is surely taking an adversarial approach. I think you are purposely trying to stir the pot, not sure why. :dontknow:

We residents of TV are just a bunch of happy people having a great time. :bigthumbsup:

[graciegirl]

I truly did not mean to be adversarial. We had stopped by The Villages for 24 hours in January when we went to Ft. Myers to get together with a group of friends who graduated high school in '57. We were invited to a friends home in Poinciana. They were very pleased with The Villages. WE thought their house was lovely. Their enthusiasm was contagious. They drove us around and we had dinner at a restaurant in Orange Blossom where there was Karaoke. We thought it was so much fun. It was lovely to be surrounded by like people.

When I mentioned to other friends in Florida that a move to the Villages might be in our future, I heard some negative stuff. I repeated it here in the Forum yesterday.Many of you have told me I had obviously been misinformed.

I have spent my life as a teacher. It was my job to correct erroneous information. I have never seen the harm in asking anything or being asked anything. I am the least confrontational person I know. I am inquisitive, I like researching things, I like a good value for my money.

I want to apologize to all of you. I didn't really mean to "stir things up".

[Just Susan]

Thanks for the research Muncle. I found it to be really interesting.

[Barefoot]

Graciegirl

I hope you'll join us at Crispers for the TOTV April 18 luncheon. You will be most welcome! :welcome:

[Muncle]

Gracie, if my comments came across as cynical or sarcastic, I apologize. While I do have something of a rep for being both sarcastic and cynical at times, I really wasn't trying to be. I truly do mean that TV is not for everyone --- but I certainly wasn't implying that it wasn't for you. What I was trying to communicate is that each of us has different tastes, different interests, different desires. And especially at this time in our lives, we can afford to cater to those tastes, interests, and desires. When I moved to TV, many friends and relatives questioned my actions, saying "What if you don't like it?" Well, I said I'd move on to someplace else if that happened. You make light of it, but I firmly believe that any road that takes me anywhere can take me back out.

I hope you enjoy your visit, and I encourage you to join the gang at Crispers as Barefoot noted. It's fun, and some of 'em are really nice people --- just don't talk politics.

[chelsea24]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrr, I'm growling at you Uncle Muncle. :-*

[graciegirl]

Thank you all for your kindness! We will be at Crispers on Friday. I will throw my hat in first.


JUST KIDDING.

You are all so wonderful.

[KathieI]

I hope you enjoy your visit, and I encourage you to join the gang at Crispers as Barefoot noted. It's fun, and some of 'em are really nice people --- just don't talk politics.

Muncle, So that means you coming on Thursday? GREAT!! 040 040

Don't worry, I'll keep Chels from talking politics.

Kathie :redface:

[Village Kid 2]

Gracie,

Muncle threw in his hat the first time he came to Crispers and lived to tell about it. In fact he is quite the adored one in spite of his curmudgeonness (is that a word?). Hope to see you both there Friday!

VK2

[KathieI]

Thanks for correcting me, Kiddo. You're right it is Friday?? Duh?

I'm so confused, gee I sound like Nonie now. Love your avatar, looks just like you. 1rnfl 1rnfl

Your friend, Kathie :redface:

[nONIE]

Why Kathie,

You are full of compliments today! >:(

Love ya anyway!! LOL

[bimmertl]

So this is now the "Crispers Luncheon" happy talk thread.

Wonderful.

[gfmucci]

This was one thread worth hijacking. ;D

[bimmertl]

This was one thread worth hijacking. ;D


People actually rely on some threads to obtain valuable information with some relevance to the topic of the thread. Invariably the "usual suspects" take over with inane banter about nothing.

The site provides ample oppurtunities to send private messages. In the alternative, perhaps some of you could actually call each other up on the phone or, God forbid, meet in person more often.

Just start a thread called Miscelaneous Happy Talk and go to it. Keep the rest of the threads limited to the topic at hand.

[redwitch]

bimmer, I think all the relevant information had been discussed prior to the hijacking. We all have pet peeves we have to live with -- Jan has to deal with inconsiderate dog owners, some object to the cute little anoles, I want to hide under a bed when there's lightning and don't even get me started on lovebugs, you're stuck with hijacked threads. ;)

[gfmucci]

This was one thread worth hijacking. ;D

...in the sense that the thread started off with an ill conceived, negative statement, not inquisitve sounding at all, i.e. "haven't heard much good", etc. etc. more like negative, presumptuous rumor mongering.* Well, the inquirer probably hasn't been looking for much good.* Ultimately, the "good" was presented by about a dozen different people on this thread.

If there was a legitimate question, it would have been something like this...
"What can you tell me about the developer.* I don't know a lot about them."* The "haven't heard much good", and "how tacky are they" sounds like someone with an agenda that was not forth rightly conveyed on the thread.* Either that, or one who is really careless with the English language.* That's what I meant by "a thread worth hijacking."

[villages07]

In Gracie's defense.....if you read through her prior posts, you will find she is a warm, friendly person. I have had some private message correspondence on another topic and she seems like a delightful person who will love the Villages and all that it has to offer.

This particular thread, I agree, started with some unfortunate wording and Gracie has, more than once, apologized for how it was received, interpreted, and responded to. So, how about we cut her some slack and be thankful for some of the valuable information it produced (like the article Muncle posted....that was excellent).

This whole thread makes me think of the oldies tune "Be true to your school"....we are all so proud of what the Villages is that when we hear what we feel is undue criticism we rise up in unison to defend our community and yes, even our developer, against naysayers. That, alone, says a lot.

Welcome Gracie...look forward to meeting you and the family at Crispers!!!

V07

[graciegirl]

DEAR ONES. Mr. Mucci is right. It sounded bad, however it was not meant to be bad.

In the south end of Columbus, Ohio where I grew up I frequently heard the old saying, " Don't take a Dutchman for what he says, it's what he means that counts".

Mr. Mucci correctly graded my paper and I have learned a lot. If I have "a hidden agenda" I think it is fear, fear of liking the place as much as you all do, and fear of the change that THAT will make in our lives. I have always lived close to where I do now, and loved it. I can't remember making a known enemy. I certainly don't mean to start now.

I knew nothing about The Villages other than the negative comments from friends who live now in other parts of Florida. My husband says that their agenda might have been to encourage us to live near them.

Sometimes on the internet, our communications don't come across the way they would if a person were face to face with another. I apologise again.

A wonderful person just sent us a scanned article from THE DAILY SUN written by H.Gary Morse himself, entitiled Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow. It was published around Thanksgiving of last year. It was very long and very informative and gave the flavor of the writer. Gary Morse is OUR age and obviously has done a tremendous job. We enjoyed it so much. I can see that I have made a complete fool of myself. I raise my hand, I am not a good communicator. I am so sorry for having offended so many of you.

Please guys, just try to forgive me and give me one more chance.

Little kids, drunks, and cats just love me.


PUH-LEEEeeze. Let's kill this thread.

GracieGirl.

[Talk Host]

At the request of the author of this tread, it has been locked. No further replies can be posted.