We need to ask the question...Is Surgery necessary?

[jebartle]

I've wondered whether surgery is always the answer....Discovered yesterday that a friend, some of you may know him, for the life of me I can't remember his last name but Pat, he worked at Glenview, he was the first smiling face you would see at bag drop, died shortly after suffering with brain tumors followed by surgery within a period of 3 weeks....Maybe if doctors were more accountable for surgeries that give little or no hope..
If doctors were only paid if the patient survived would we enjoy our loved ones longer if they were just given medication to make the disease or health risk more palatable and give them comfort.. It would certainly give the doctors a moment for "pause".They say if you want to live longer, stay away from doctors and hospitals....Granted, I know that there is a time for surgery and doctors can be wonderful medical magicians BUT I'm sure many of you wondered if your friend or loved one would still be with you IF the conservative answer was the choice.

[pbkmaine]

Most of the doctors I know are trained to intervene. To save life whatever the cost. Individuals and families need to be clear going in what their wishes are. Everyone needs an advance directive for health care and your physicians need to know you have one and what's in it.

[Suzi]

I would be VERY surprised if surgery was performed without the patient knowing what his choices were. No doctor I know would EVER do surgery (even if needed) without discussing what would happen without the surgery. My extensive experience shows that patients, faced with quick death without surgery, will opt to try for a little more time having surgery. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. In the case of your friend, you do not know how much time he had if he had not had the surgery. I am sure this was explained to him and his family and the choice was made between him and his loved ones. Surgery is not without risks but neither is leaving a brain tumor in place.

[billethkid]

I've wondered whether surgery is always the answer....Discovered yesterday that a friend, some of you may know him, for the life of me I can't remember his last name but Pat, he worked at Glenview, he was the first smiling face you would see at bag drop, died shortly after suffering with brain tumors followed by surgery within a period of 3 weeks....Maybe if doctors were more accountable for surgeries that give little or no hope..
If doctors were only paid if the patient survived would we enjoy our loved ones longer if they were just given medication to make the disease or health risk more palatable and give them comfort.. It would certainly give the doctors a moment for "pause".They say if you want to live longer, stay away from doctors and hospitals....Granted, I know that there is a time for surgery and doctors can be wonderful medical magicians BUT I'm sure many of you wondered if your friend or loved one would still be with you IF the conservative answer was the choice.

Very annecdotal and totally untrue!!

[Bonny]

I have had some surgeries and I was always given the pros and cons. Doctors can only do the best they can.

[togabill]

Suzi, with all due respect I disagree. Without going into details , surgery here seems to be a quick decision from "some" doctors. Make sure to get second and third opinions. Personal experience. Some do not communicate choices.

[Suzi]

Suzi, with all due respect I disagree. Without going into details , surgery here seems to be a quick decision from "some" doctors. Make sure to get second and third opinions. Personal experience. Some do not communicate choices.

Our local area in Florida may be different. The local physicians/surgeons who have received their medical training elsewhere outside this country may have different ways of practicing medicine. So far, my limited exposure to these MD's has NOT been positive. Without getting into a whole NEW discussion, I suggest that each person get a second opinion and possibly a third. They should also have an "advocate". By that I mean a person who can help them sift through the medical jargon and facts of the problem and the choices that needs to be made. Sometimes this can be a family member or friend and sometimes it needs to be someone who has a medical/nursing background. The point is: often when ill people (and their loved ones) are faced with tough decisions, they are very "stressed" and can sometimes make unwise decisions. A person outside can sometimes "see" things better than someone "in-the-thick-of-it".

[SALYBOW]

I've wondered whether surgery is always the answer....Discovered yesterday that a friend, some of you may know him, for the life of me I can't remember his last name but Pat, he worked at Glenview, he was the first smiling face you would see at bag drop, died shortly after suffering with brain tumors followed by surgery within a period of 3 weeks....Maybe if doctors were more accountable for surgeries that give little or no hope..
If doctors were only paid if the patient survived would we enjoy our loved ones longer if they were just given medication to make the disease or health risk more palatable and give them comfort.. It would certainly give the doctors a moment for "pause".They say if you want to live longer, stay away from doctors and hospitals....Granted, I know that there is a time for surgery and doctors can be wonderful medical magicians BUT I'm sure many of you wondered if your friend or loved one would still be with you IF the conservative answer was the choice.

My son is a physician and he says you should question every procedure that is recommended for you. Ask, "what good is going to be accomplished by this.?"
I just went to the hospital last weekend and was dispensed two prescriptions which they did not think were really necessary. I did not fill them. One was for anxiety; I was not anxious. What's up with that ?
Again I quote, "If doctors were only paid if the patient survived," If this would be the case, what would happen to those with cancer or other fatal diseases? We need to question the necessity of medical procedures.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I wouldn't be walking today if not for surgeries. The doctors that did them tried everything less invasive before they did surgery as a last resort.

I'm sure that there are some doctors that do unnecessary surgeries, but the ones that I've known have tried to avoid it.

My last wife died from cancer. Her cancer was discovered during a surgery. The only surgeries that she had for the cancer were palliative. There was nothing that could be done to save here life, but they could do some things to make her more comfortable.

I think that it's a bit absurd to blame a doctor for the death of someone that had brain tumors just because the doctor took steps that may have saved or extended the person's life. During my wife's illness, I learned that you always have a choice. She decided on every treatment she received every step of the way. No one can force a surgery or any other procedure for that matter on anyone. They give you the options and you make the choice. At least that's been my experience, and I've had a lot of medical treatment in my life.

[jebartle]

I'm thankful for your successful surgeries and I love doctors, even married to one, but if patients would take a "time-out" b4 "going under the knife" and get more than one opinion and be more conservative with their care, their life might be extended...

I was reminded that a hospital, where patients surgeries were postponed, due to electrical failure, and the death toll for that period dropped significantly...The conclusion is obvious, but certainly gives reason for a patient to give his or her own health decisions serious thought!

If the surgery is going to extend your life, at what cost to you and your family, not in just dollars but in pain and suffering.








I wouldn't be walking today if not for surgeries. The doctors that did them tried everything less invasive before they did surgery as a last resort.

I'm sure that there are some doctors that do unnecessary surgeries, but the ones that I've known have tried to avoid it.

My last wife died from cancer. Her cancer was discovered during a surgery. The only surgeries that she had for the cancer were palliative. There was nothing that could be done to save here life, but they could do some things to make her more comfortable.

I think that it's a bit absurd to blame a doctor for the death of someone that had brain tumors just because the doctor took steps that may have saved or extended the person's life. During my wife's illness, I learned that you always have a choice. She decided on every treatment she received every step of the way. No one can force a surgery or any other procedure for that matter on anyone. They give you the options and you make the choice. At least that's been my experience, and I've had a lot of medical treatment in my life.

[dbussone]

Our local area in Florida may be different. The local physicians/surgeons who have received their medical training elsewhere outside this country may have different ways of practicing medicine. So far, my limited exposure to these MD's has NOT been positive. Without getting into a whole NEW discussion, I suggest that each person get a second opinion and possibly a third. They should also have an "advocate". By that I mean a person who can help them sift through the medical jargon and facts of the problem and the choices that needs to be made. Sometimes this can be a family member or friend and sometimes it needs to be someone who has a medical/nursing background. The point is: often when ill people (and their loved ones) are faced with tough decisions, they are very "stressed" and can sometimes make unwise decisions. A person outside can sometimes "see" things better than someone "in-the-thick-of-it".

I'm sorry you have not had a good experience with our local medical community. In my experience if you take the time to research physicians, and ask others for their opinion, you can find very good physicians. Now we don't have every specialty and subspecialty, but you can go to Orlando, Gainesville, and Tampa to find just about anything you need.

[sunnyatlast]

Our local area in Florida may be different. The local physicians/surgeons who have received their medical training elsewhere outside this country may have different ways of practicing medicine.

This is highly uninformed at best, and outright insulting at worst. All physicians practicing in the U.S. have to do their residencies in this country's teaching hospitals, regardless of foreign diploma and possibly decades of experience abroad.

And, about the o.p., imagine if the doctors battling to save the lives of the Ebola victims right now at Emory and Bethesda were to get paid only if the person survived! Guess what?? They would be working day and night regardless of no pay, because they CARE! That is how the doctor with Samaritans Purse got Ebola and why he pulled over on the highway when he got the call to donate his antibody-containing blood to Nina Pham whose blood type matched his (and let's hope/pray Amber Vinson matches too).

To hold a neurosurgeon--who completes about 12 years of post med school training--responsible for a patient's decision to get that cancerous, invasive thing OUT of their brain is just incomprehensible.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I'm thankful for your successful surgeries and I love doctors, even married to one, but if patients would take a "time-out" b4 "going under the knife" and get more than one opinion and be more conservative with their care, their life might be extended...

I was reminded that a hospital, where patients surgeries were postponed, due to electrical failure, and the death toll for that period dropped significantly...The conclusion is obvious, but certainly gives reason for a patient to give his or her own health decisions serious thought!

If the surgery is going to extend your life, at what cost to you and your family, not in just dollars but in pain and suffering.

What kind of doctor are you married to?

[zonerboy]

So some one you don't even know well enough to remember his last name apparently died three weeks after surgery for a brain tumor, and you are moved to question whether he might have lived a longer and happier life without the operation. And to propose that he was somehow "talked into" having the surgery by a doctor who did not explain alternative options for treatment and was primarily motivated by how much he would be paid.
This is ridiculous. What is your source of information about this person's medical condition? What type of tumor was it? What is the usual outcome for this condition if untreated or treated with other modalities than surgery.
A person does not just walk into a neurosurgeon's office and say "I have a brain tumor, can you operate?" The were certainly other physicals involved in evaluation and diagnosis of this person's condition with plenty of discussion and explanation along the way. Don't think he was forced to consult a neurosurgeon, or that surgery was done without his informed consent.

[duffysmom]

I would never have surgery anywhere else but Mayo Jacksonville. I've had a couple of procedures there and they are the best IMO.

Check out a CBS report on malpractice in Florida.:mad:

Despite malpractice settlements, few doctors lose licenses - Videos - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/despite-malpractice-settlements-few-doctors-lose-licenses/)

[CFrance]

Zoner, Boogie & Sunny... thank you for your responses. I was stunned into brain freeze by the OP's post and unable to even articulate in my mind, much less in print. You three covered it all.

Boogie, so sorry for the loss of your wife. I'm glad you have another love in your life.

[graciegirl]

I would never have surgery anywhere else but Mayo Jacksonville. I've had a couple of procedures there and they are the best IMO.

Check out a CBS report on malpractice in Florida.:mad:

Despite malpractice settlements, few doctors lose licenses - Videos - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/despite-malpractice-settlements-few-doctors-lose-licenses/)


After seeing this, I too was shocked.

[sunnyatlast]

Zoner, Boogie & Sunny... thank you for your responses. I was stunned into brain freeze by the OP's post and unable to even articulate in my mind, much less in print. You three covered it all.

Boogie, so sorry for the loss of your wife. I'm glad you have another love in your life.

"Stunned into brain freeze" is right!!!

And since when can any mortal decide that a loved one would still be alive IF another mortal had not decided to have surgery done by another mortal having 16 more years of education and training beyond high school?!?!???!!??

Only God knows when our last day is! When your time's up, it's up!!

[Barefoot]

They say if you want to live longer, stay away from doctors and hospitals....

Who is "they say"?
I've never heard anyone say "if you want to live longer, stay away from doctors and hospitals".

[asianthree]

I have noticed more stress and pressure at the funeral home than at a hospital

[Barefoot]

I have noticed more stress and pressure at the funeral home than at a hospital

:bowdown:

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Not seeing a lot of responses from the OP. I would really like to know what kind of doctors he or she is married to.

[SoccerCoach]

I was admitted to a FL hospital having acute angina. Three days in that hospital with only an administered EKG they wanted to transport me to another hospital for "an open heart procedure", based only on an EKG, REALLY? I didn't think so because I was out of medications, causing the episode. So I signed myself out AMA, got my meds. That was 12 years ago. You really need to be your own advocate.

[Halibut]

It makes sense to get a second opinion about any surgery. Nobody should feel rushed or pressured into making a decision. I don't believe most doctors deliberately push unnecessary procedures, but they do make mistakes. As SoccerCoach said, you must always question and advocate for yourself.

The incidence of iatrogenic illnesses is higher than it should be, so it can sometimes be dangerous to go to a hospital.

The CDC healthcare-associated infection (HAI) prevalence survey (http://www.cdc.gov/HAI/surveillance/index.html) provides an updated national estimate of the overall problem of HAIs in U.S. hospitals. Based on a large sample of U.S. acute care hospitals, the survey found that on any given day, about 1 in 25 hospital patients has at least one healthcare-associated infection. There were an estimated 722,000 HAIs in U.S acute care hospitals in 2011. About 75,000 hospital patients with HAIs died during their hospitalizations. More than half of all HAIs occurred outside of the intensive care unit.

[OBXNana]

My view separates life and death surgery from other surgery. Other surgery would include, but not necessarily limited to, back, cervical, orthopedic, and neurological (other than brain) surgery in general. Let your body be your guide. If the pain is such it interferes with your daily life and it has been recommended surgery would improve the quality (all other measures from diet, PT, and exercise have been exhausted) of life, then surgery is the final step to getting the quality of life we all want to achieve.

[Villages PL]

I would be VERY surprised if surgery was performed without the patient knowing what his choices were.No doctor I know would EVER do surgery (even if needed) without discussing what would happen without the surgery. My extensive experience shows that patients, faced with quick death without surgery, will opt to try for a little more time having surgery. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. In the case of your friend, you do not know how much time he had if he had not had the surgery. I am sure this was explained to him and his family and the choice was made between him and his loved ones. Surgery is not without risks but neither is leaving a brain tumor in place.

Be prepared to be "VERY surprised": When patients have coronary artery disease most cardiologists will not tell the patient that the condition can be reversed through diet, exercise and stress control. Patients are usually told they need a bypass operation. And that will put their life at risk as all operations do.

[sunnyatlast]

Be prepared to be "VERY surprised": When patients have coronary artery disease most cardiologists will not tell the patient that the condition can be reversed through diet, exercise and stress control. Patients are usually told they need a bypass operation. And that will put their life at risk as all operations do.

They often don't have weeks, months and years to wait for your diet to work before they have a big blow out.

And once the surgery is done to get the person on safer ground, the doctors DO tell them what to avoid with diet and lifestyle.

Most people have a hard time staying on a plan that borders on self mortification.