Legal battle brewing over golf-cart access

[TVMayor]

A fight over golf-cart access to The Villages is brewing and once again landowner Ron Brown is playing a leading role.

Brown owns property back by Lowe’s and lives on property near Bowersox Drive on the Historic Side of The Villages. Although Brown does not live in The Villages, he apparently wants access to The Villages.

In the summer of 2013, Habor Chase assisted living facility was being built on property Brown had sold. When Harbor Chase began touting itself as being golf cart accessible, a wall suddenly and mysteriously went up near Paradise Drive blocking golf cart access to non-Villagers. That wall was eventually taken down and replaced with a card-access gate.

A special Lady Lake Commission meeting on Brown’s latest legal maneuvering is set for 9 a.m. Thursday at Lady Lake Town Hall.

The issue was called to commissioners’ attention Monday night by Town Attorney Derek Schroth. At Monday’s meeting, Schroth and Commissioner Jim Richards, who had a long career in government engineering, both indicated they think the town is on solid legal footing as they brace for a potential legal battle with Brown.

Commissioners indicated they have no interest in seeing golf cart access to The Villages opened to outsiders.
From the you know who online paper.

[janmcn]

Here we go with another fight over the wall/gate. It's hard to tell from this short article if Mr Brown is only looking for golf cart access for himself, or does he have another development in the works for which he wants golf cart access?

Doesn't the golf cart access to Lowe's, Wal-Mart, etc, still travel over Mr Brown's property? It seems that Mr Brown's recourse would be to stop all that traffic from crossing his property, and this would certainly upset a lot of residents of The Villages.

[TVMayor]

Here we go with another fight over the wall/gate. It's hard to tell from this short article if Mr Brown is only looking for golf cart access for himself, or does he have another development in the works for which he wants golf cart access?

Doesn't the golf cart access to Lowe's, Wal-Mart, etc, still travel over Mr Brown's property? It seems that Mr Brown's recourse would be to stop all that traffic from crossing his property, and this would certainly upset a lot of residents of The Villages.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii199/The_Villages/MrBrown_zps3960fad4.jpg

[graciegirl]

Mr. Mayor, Thank you for the heads up and the graphics. Helpful as always.

My view is that we don't need golf carts from surrounding areas. We have had 13 fatal golf cart accidents in the last four years.

[Taltarzac725]

Sounds like the worry is more about non-Villagers getting more access to using the Villages amenities-- pools, exercise places, sports equipment, etc-- by coming in using golf carts rather than cars.

There are some Veterans upset about lack of golf cart access to the Veterans Hospital up by Stonecrest. I would expect some Veterans can only get around via golf cart.

[janmcn]

Sounds like the worry is more about non-Villagers getting more access to using the Villages amenities-- pools, exercise places, sports equipment, etc-- by coming in using golf carts rather than cars.

There are some Veterans upset about lack of golf cart access to the Veterans Hospital up by Stonecrest. I would expect some Veterans can only get around via golf cart.


And conversely, many residents on the historic side rely only on their golf carts for shopping and medical care along 441/27. If Mr Brown restricts access to his property, what recourse do these residents have?

It should be an interesting meeting tomorrow in Lady Lake.

[cologal]

Sounds like the worry is more about non-Villagers getting more access to using the Villages amenities-- pools, exercise places, sports equipment, etc-- by coming in using golf carts rather than cars.

There are some Veterans upset about lack of golf cart access to the Veterans Hospital up by Stonecrest. I would expect some Veterans can only get around via golf cart.

I thought the VA Clinic was in Mulberry Grove

[DonH57]

I thought the VA Clinic was in Mulberry Grove

I remember that old discussion. The VA facility is in Mulberry Grove. I don't think people would spend that much time in inclimate weather in a golf cart from Stonecrest to Mulberry versus 5 minute transportation in warmth.

[golf2140]

Maybe the presure is on Mr. Brown. He sold that property as golf cart accessable and that didn't work our. Harbor Chase may be after Brown to honor that claim.

[DonH57]

Maybe the presure is on Mr. Brown. He sold that property as golf cart accessable and that didn't work our. Harbor Chase may be after Brown to honor that claim.

Very well may be but I don't know how he could have legally made the claim of permanent accessibilty.

[Warren Kiefer]

Sounds like the worry is more about non-Villagers getting more access to using the Villages amenities-- pools, exercise places, sports equipment, etc-- by coming in using golf carts rather than cars.

There are some Veterans upset about lack of golf cart access to the Veterans Hospital up by Stonecrest. I would expect some Veterans can only get around via golf cart.

As to outsiders using Villager amenity facilities. I have lived here for 17 years ans have NEVER known a outsider to intentionally sneak in to use our pools and such.

[jbdlfan]

Here we go with another fight over the wall/gate. It's hard to tell from this short article if Mr Brown is only looking for golf cart access for himself, or does he have another development in the works for which he wants golf cart access?

Doesn't the golf cart access to Lowe's, Wal-Mart, etc, still travel over Mr Brown's property? It seems that Mr Brown's recourse would be to stop all that traffic from crossing his property, and this would certainly upset a lot of residents of The Villages.

My guess is that is EXACTLY what he'll do. He really wouldn't have much to lose by doing this. Unless I'm missing something....

[DonH57]

He very well could do that. It's his property. I think he has been very generous in allowing carts to pass so far.I think for liability reasons he's taking a risk doing it, but, hey.

[VT2TV]

I can't even imagine the mess it would be if the Villages opened up golf cart access to Mr. Brown. If they did that, I predict it would take less than a day for every area that is even remotely close to TV to start demanding that they also have golf cart accessibility too, and I wouldn't be surprised if they expected TV to pay for it. I really do unnderstand and sympathize with the Villagers who would possibly lose their access to Walmart and Lowe's. But even though it might be extremely inconvenient to not be able to go to there in their carts, the impact to the Village areas between 441 to 42 at Brownwood would have a larger impact on many more people. It is already so bad that TV has put up stop signs at some of the golf cart/car crossings to make them at least a 3 way stop. I believe we will see more of that because even this week, there were occassions when I was at least the 10th or 14th cart backed up at some crossings. If all of the local areas were to have golf cart access, I think you would see lots of backed up traffic. I have seen several golf carts (basically rigged up John Deere lawn carts with a small bed) that I suspect came from Wildwood. People from other areas had the same opportunity to live in TV and use the multimodal pathways, but since they chose not to do so, they can't cry now that they are entitled to use them. If we don't speak up, we can't complain later that it isn't right that the MM paths are so crowded that we can't use them.

BTW, although I am def. against outsiders using our pools, I don't think that is the biggest problem. But I have been here 4 years, and I have seen, and talked to 3 people from outside areas.

[njbchbum]

As to outsiders using Villager amenity facilities. I have lived here for 17 years ans have NEVER known a outsider to intentionally sneak in to use our pools and such.

Guess you haven't been around as I have been to see the 'outsiders' removed from the Webb Way hot tub when there was night availability. There's a lot in life that I have not seen - but I don't question that it never happened. In some cases, I am glad I have never been exposed to some things? :)

[rubicon]

As to outsiders using Villager amenity facilities. I have lived here for 17 years ans have NEVER known a outsider to intentionally sneak in to use our pools and such.

Warren: Its like the Voter ID debate there isn't any fraud until you begin to pay attention to the issue.

This Gate-gate debate isn't about anything but the fact that non-villagers had access to multi-modal pathways and various amenities until the gate was erected and they are going to use every method they can to gain that access back. also keep in mind you have many people who have rental property here and are loaning their gate passes to friends. We are not complete at build out and already the multi-modal paths look like I-4.

some folks will blink and deflate some will get upset but nothing will be done and if it isn't addressed we will be the biggest losers

[Taltarzac725]

I thought the VA Clinic was in Mulberry Grove

I was just relaying some of the fears mentioned in related articles on that other site about amenity use stealers, access to the Veterans Hospital by Stonecrest residents, and other related matters to the general question of non-villagers not being able to use various gates for whatever reason.

[Villager Dude]

I guess I do not get it. It seems like the MM paths are private property and controlled by the developer and should be able to dictate use.

Why is the local government even involved in the issue ?

[janmcn]

An update was just posted on that other site that states Brown has spent $100,000 for a study on a new development on the property he owns and is looking for golf cart access for that development. The property is behind the recently built assisted living facility.

[Cajulian]

An update was just posted on that other site that states Brown has spent $100,000 for a study on a new development on the property he owns and is looking for golf cart access for that development. The property is behind the recently built assisted living facility.

What other site are you talking about that is posting updates on this topic?

[janmcn]

What other site are you talking about that is posting updates on this topic?

We are not permitted to post it on this site, but it is an on-line site for Villages news.

[Advogado]

Have we ever received an explanation from the moderator as to why we cannot mention the name of the site?

[Birdie Dreamer]

Have we ever received an explanation from the moderator as to why we cannot mention the name of the site?

Yesterday in the Car Chase thread.

[DonH57]

We are not permitted to post it on this site, but it is an on-line site for Villages news.

I read the article to which you are referring. I don't see how his spending money for engineering surveys or any other construction expenditures have any thing to do with requesting access to neighboring private property. Is there any specific reference to the infamous gate people are refering to. I don't understand what he thinks he could sue for. Does that mean if I buy adjoining property next to the villages I could do the same? I just don't see this going very far.

[VT2TV]

Back to the topic of the potential loss of private use of the MM pathways. I for one take this very seriously, and have no doubt that our friends from the 2 (55+) communities on 441 are somehow involved-hope that I am wrong. But I can't understand why it is so important for Mr. Johnson to have golf cart access to that 1 parcel of land. Unless one of the previous posters is right who mentoned that he is getting a lot of flack from the assisted living home who thought they were going to have golf cart accessibility to TV. Does anyone know if we need to attend the Town Hall meeting tomorrow night to show that we are not in favor of opening up access to our MM pathways to the general public??

[njbchbum]

snipped Does anyone know if we need to attend the Town Hall meeting tomorrow night to show that we are not in favor of opening up access to our MM pathways to the general public??

If you do not attend the meeting, and others also fail to attend, how will anyone other than us readers know how you feel?

[VT2TV]

If you do not attend the meeting, and others also fail to attend, how will anyone other than us readers know how you feel?


My point exactly.

[njbchbum]

I read the article to which you are referring. I don't see how his spending money for engineering surveys or any other construction expenditures have any thing to do with requesting access to neighboring private property. Is there any specific reference to the infamous gate people are refering to. I don't understand what he thinks he could sue for. Does that mean if I buy adjoining property next to the villages I could do the same? I just don't see this going very far.

DonH57 - If you remember the bruhaha that resulted from the wall and the Lady Lake rationale for implementing the access gate, my take is that Mr. Brown might be prepared to sue over that decision.

[Average Guy]

Does anyone know if we need to attend the Town Hall meeting tomorrow night to show that we are not in favor of opening up access to our MM pathways to the general public??

According to OP, the meeting is tomorrow morning, not night.

[obxgal]

Meeting is tomorrow MORNING per article:

Property owner Ron Brown’s quest to have golf cart access to The Villages will go before the Lady Lake Commission on Thursday morning.

Commissioners meet in special session at 9 a.m. at Lady Lake Town Hall.

Brown has indicated to Lady Lake officials that he has spent $100,000 in engineering costs to get approval from Lake County officials for a new development on his property, located in the vicinity behind Lowe’s and the new Harbor Chase assisted living.

Brown has indicated he will file a lawsuit if he is unable to come to an agreement with the town.

[DougB]

Aren't Brown and Morse related?

[Suzi]

I have just learned, the hard way I must admit, that having people from outside The Villages driving our multi-modal paths is a problem. Maybe I would have been more ignorant of the problems a week ago, but because of a recent accident with a golf cart driven by a non-villager and my car, it has made me realize that there is no control, respect or responsibility on the part of these non-residents. This is seriously not a good idea. I don't want to sound like I am whining but I feel these paths are ours - we pay for them and we maintain them too. I care about OUR community but I'm not-at-all sure that non-villagers feel the same.

[Barefoot]

Aren't Brown and Morse related?

My hairdresser's boyfriend heard from someone that Brown and Morse are second cousins.
Or was it two peas in pod, I can't remember.

[Biker Dog]

:wave:Put the wall back up

[rp001]

What a jerk. No wonder the wall went up.

Just another entrepreneur trying to maximize the use of his property. Why is he a jerk?

[graciegirl]

Just another entrepreneur trying to maximize the use of his property. Why is he a jerk?

I'm sorry. I meant entrepreneur. One who wants to throw a monkey wrench into something that is not particularly helpful to the people who live in my town.

[graciegirl]

I have just learned, the hard way I must admit, that having people from outside The Villages driving our multi-modal paths is a problem. Maybe I would have been more ignorant of the problems a week ago, but because of a recent accident with a golf cart driven by a non-villager and my car, it has made me realize that there is no control, respect or responsibility on the part of these non-residents. This is seriously not a good idea. I don't want to sound like I am whining but I feel these paths are ours - we pay for them and we maintain them too. I care about OUR community but I'm not-at-all sure that non-villagers feel the same.


Hear. Hear.

[TVMayor]

At the Lady Lake Commission meeting this morning Mr Brown's attorney won the argument but lost the vote.

[TheVillageChicken]

I would think that even if he were to lose a lawsuit on this issue, all Morse would need to do is gate the bridge that crosses 441. Surely that bridge is private property.

[njbchbum]

I'm sorry. I meant entrepreneur. One who wants to throw a monkey wrench into something that is not particularly helpful to the people who live in my town.

Mr. Brown is kind enough to allow and even facilitated 'the people in your town' traversing HIS land in THEIR golf carts - without penalty of any sort - in order to reach locations such as Lowe's, Walmart and Aldi as well as restaurants along Rt27/441...a significant convenience for villagers - especially those who no longer operate a car!

[DonH57]

I would think that even if he were to lose a lawsuit on this issue, all Morse would need to do is gate the bridge that crosses 441. Surely that bridge is private property.

The gate and the property it sits on is too. I don't see how the issue even made it to any local government office.

[njbchbum]

At the Lady Lake Commission meeting this morning Mr Brown's attorney won the argument but lost the vote.

I would have loved to hear the argument! Hope the Commission posts the minutes of the special meeting so we who are off-campus can read about it! The argument had to be something else if it beat the legalese of the 1998 resolution!

Commission (http://www.ladylake.org/agenda-minutes/commission/commission-2013)
select the Aug 19, 2013 meeting [be sure to click on the word 'minutes] - item #4

[jbdlfan]

Either way this goes there will be Villagers not happy. If they reconstruct "the wall" folks lose access from our side to those businesses. If access is granted, people seem to think we lose that way also. Or, he refuses to allow trespassing on his property and we all lose. This won't end well....

[njbchbum]

snipped
Or, he refuses to allow trespassing on his property and we all lose. This won't end well....

Now, even you know that traversing with permission, as Mr. Brown has granted and facilitated, is not trespassing. C'mon!

[janmcn]

Now, even you know that traversing with permission, as Mr. Brown has granted and facilitated, is not trespassing. C'mon!

If Mr Brown gets angry enough, all he has to do is go to Lowe's and buy a dozen no trespassing signs and the path will be closed. It is his property, and he is free to do with it what he will.

[graciegirl]

Mr. Brown is kind enough to allow and even facilitated 'the people in your town' traversing HIS land in THEIR golf carts - without penalty of any sort - in order to reach locations such as Lowe's, Walmart and Aldi as well as restaurants along Rt27/441...a significant convenience for villagers - especially those who no longer operate a car!


UNCLE! Not only would I follow you to the ends of the earth, Maria, I take seriously everything that comes from your mouth.

But...isn't Mr. BROWN suing to allow his development to have entry to our cart paths? I am NOT likin' THAT.

[DonH57]

If Mr Brown gets angry enough, all he has to do is go to Lowe's and buy a dozen no trespassing signs and the path will be closed. It is his property, and he is free to do with it what he will.

Yes. I agree. He could very easily do that. He would be very well within his right to do so. Anyone who worked over in those businesses on that side would have to find another way to work, and of course shoppers too.

[graciegirl]

Yes. I agree. He could very easily do that. He would be very well within his right to do so. Anyone who worked over in those businesses on that side would have to find another way to work, and of course shoppers too.


Yes.

[jbdlfan]

Now, even you know that traversing with permission, as Mr. Brown has granted and facilitated, is not trespassing. C'mon!

Yes, but that's my point. All he has to do is shut it down.
Just my opinion, but see TV residents have more to lose than he does at this point.

[TVMayor]

Mr Brown was willing to finance a resident ID gate, the Commission went silent on that idea. The Commission had one goal, get Mr Brown spread eagle on the utility box.

[janmcn]

This is getting way too complicated, according to a recent report on that other news site. The discussion today involved access to the TVRH parking lot and giving up the right-of-way to Bowersox Ave. The one dissenting voter said he voted that way because he sees a "long and protracted legal fight" with Mr Brown.

Read all about it at you know where.

[bkcunningham1]

Years ago, Mr. Brown took Mr. Morse to court and was given the current right-of-way to his (Mr. Brown's) property. Mr. Morse was refusing to give him access and water to this property. A court of law granted the right-of-way at Bowersox and water rights. So, now the town of Lady Lake is vacating the right-of-way. In a nutshell, that is what this about. Mr. Brown wanted to keep the access and Mr. Morse, I mean the Lady Lake Commission, said no.

[rubicon]

I am unfamiliar as to exactly the location of the Paradise Gate? I have been over the bridge and I played Orange Blossom , Hill Top, have been to Walmart, Aldi 's etc. but where's this gate?

The reason I ask is that non-villagers really want this open so they can get to the privately paid and maintained multi-modal paths. As a sidebar look at what it cost us to widen those pathways north of 466 recently.

Is there another location nearby to block non residents from entering our multi-modal pathways?

[bkcunningham1]

I am unfamiliar as to exactly the location of the Paradise Gate? I have been over the bridge and I played Orange Blossom , Hill Top, have been to Walmart, Aldi 's etc. but where's this gate?

The reason I ask is that non-villagers really want this open so they can get to the privately paid and maintained multi-modal paths. As a sidebar look at what it cost us to widen those pathways north of 466 recently.

Is there another location nearby to block non residents from entering our multi-modal pathways?

It is not a golf cart access gate. It is a farm gate. A metal gate. There have never been golf carts coming through there. It has nothing to do with the Paradise Gate or the golf cart paths. It is a right-of-way from The Villages to Mr. Brown's personal property that Mr. Morse was required to give him years ago.

[Ceafolks]

Years ago, Mr. Brown took Mr. Morse to court and was given the current right-of-way to his (Mr. Brown's) property. Mr. Morse was refusing to give him access and water to this property. A court of law granted the right-of-way at Bowersox and water rights. So, now the town of Lady Lake is vacating the right-of-way. In a nutshell, that is what this about. Mr. Brown wanted to keep the access and Mr. Morse, I mean the Lady Lake Commission, said no.

Thank you BK...for posting the real reason for the fuss. I wondered just how long it would take to get to the real story. The notice has been posted on the right of way at the end of Bowersox for a while. Guess no-one noticed.

[blueeagle65]

Kudos to the Lady Lake Commission.

[TVMayor]

Mr Brown is a nicer person than I am apparently, if I were him I would go home and get my tractor and dig a ditch at each end of the golf cart path on my property preventing golf cart passage to Walmart.

[janmcn]

It is not a golf cart access gate. It is a farm gate. A metal gate. There have never been golf carts coming through there. It has nothing to do with the Paradise Gate or the golf cart paths. It is a right-of-way from The Villages to Mr. Brown's personal property that Mr. Morse was required to give him years ago.

What does "vacating the right-of-way" mean? This was a piece of land between two house lots. It seems it was left vacant for the sole purpose of providing Mr Brown access to his property, by court order. Does this mean that the lot now can be returned to Mr Morse? Does anybody know?

Also, does the Lady Lake Commission have the authority to override a court's decision? A photo of this gate is on the other news site.

[janmcn]

Mr Brown is a nicer person than I am apparently, if I were him I would go home and get my tractor and dig a ditch at each end of the golf cart path on my property preventing golf cart passage to Walmart.

Maybe he is doing just that. I would at least put "no trespassing" signs all over my property.

[bkcunningham1]

Thank you BK...for posting the real reason for the fuss. I wondered just how long it would take to get to the real story. The notice has been posted on the right of way at the end of Bowersox for a while. Guess no-one noticed.

But did you read the notice? It said the date of the hearing by the Lady Lake Commission to discuss vacating the right-of-way was "to be announced."

My question is how much of the land abutting TV did Mr. Brown sale? Did he sale the property where the right of way goes into? I know he sold the property where the parking lot is being built which is much closer to st. Rt. 441; behind the medical complex.

[TVMayor]

Maybe he is doing just that. I would at least put "no trespassing" signs all over my property.
I see how "Stop" signs work in TV.

[DonH57]

After reading the updated information on today's happenings I'm wondering also why Mr. Brown chose not to put in a driveway to the property and corner himself in. Is that correct information?

[justjim]

I can see some TV residents who do not drive a car getting the "short stick" in this controversy.

[TheVillageChicken]

Here is all you need to know....hope you like deciphering mumbo jumbo. (http://www.ladylake.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Special-Commission-Meeting-Agenda-for-10-23-14.pdf)

[NoMoSno]

I can see some TV residents who do not drive a car getting the "short stick" in this controversy.

Why would residents be getting the "short stick"?
People have been trespassing across his property for years.
We were lucky he allowed it this long.
He has every right to fence it off.

[njbchbum]

Why would residents be getting the "short stick"?
People have been trespassing across his property for years.
We were lucky he allowed it this long.
He has every right to fence it off.

NoMoSno - Please explain how "We were lucky he allowed it this long." equates to "People have been trespassing across his property for years."

[Allegiance]

Maybe the businesses like Lowes and Walmart want the golf cart access to increase business. If people have to get in their cars they just might go to Home Depot.

[NoMoSno]

NoMoSno - Please explain how "We were lucky he allowed it this long." equates to "People have been trespassing across his property for years."

He has a liability issue.
He could have put a stop to it years ago.

[njbchbum]

NoMoSno - Please explain how "We were lucky he allowed it this long." equates to "People have been trespassing across his property for years."

He has a liability issue.
He could have put a stop to it years ago.

Oy! I give up!

[DonH57]

Mr. Brown has in fact been very generous in allowing golf carts to cross his property. In my opinion it is a possible liablilty risk. I never really thought about it until one time I was in our cart crossing the area behind the power company's yard. ( between Aldi's and Walmart) There had been lots of rain and you could see where someone pulled the no trespassing sign and carts had cut thru the other area close to the equipment. A real good chance of getting lit up like a christmas tree!

[Steve9930]

Everytime this topic raises its ugly head it amazes me how much ill will it generates and lots of opinions. Harbor Chase is Golf Cart accessible. The following residents can get there by Golf Cart, Spruce Creek, StoneCrest, and The Villages. So what ever is going on now is just a continuation of the Morse/Brown Feud don't get your panty hose in a wad.......