Youths assaulting youths

[samhass]

I just saw a segment on CNBC about yet another group of teens viciously beating another teen and filming it for utube. They should take the lot of them and ship them to Parris Island for a stint in the USMC. The DI's down there will teach them to be real men and women, not just street hooligans. After basic, ship them to Iraq since they want to fight so badly.
Sorry if this seems harsh, but obviously the parents are not in control. Someone else needs
to tame these creatures. I refuse to believe this is just youthful indiscretion. I fully think these kids may grow up to be a threat to society at large. How sad. :'(

[nONIE]

This is so frightening to think that these anger emotions are brewing in so many of our youth today. It really does make you wonder what is going on in their heads, they obviously are not thinking as rational human beings. I believe they all must need extensive mental therapy which they will probably never get. The damage that they may create in their lifetimes without proper intervention is horrifying .

[samhass]

I've read that teens brains aren't fully wired until about 19, but these kids still have to be held accountable for their brutal behavior. I feel deeply sorry for them and doubt they will receive the mental help they need.

[Rokinronda]

This is so frightening to think that these anger emotions are brewing in so many of our youth today. It really does make you wonder what is going on in their heads, they obviously are not thinking as rational human beings. I believe they all must need extensive mental therapy which they will probably never get. The damage that they may create in their lifetimes without proper intervention is horrifying .
I AGREE!! Bullying has gone on forever, but when it gets to this point, it is time for more than a slap on the wrist. Our son was bullied by a few boys for years and I finally did fear for him so much that I pulled him out of school on his first day of his senior year. That day the bully dared him to fight and then showed up with a baseball bat!! Thank God he was not alone and other kids called the :cop: . The punishment was weak to say the least. Our son was also charged! A month later the bully tried to cut him off on a bridge! These recent news reports are of felony assault and should be treated as such. If the victims die, it is murder! Kindness was always emphacized in the upbringing of our kids, do unto others as you would want them to do unto you! Be the better person and try to help others, we are all different and therefore unique, embrace that thought and never ridicule others, and respect everyone. Be PROUD of who you are! DO NOT HIT OR HURT ANYONE!! If you meet a troubled child, help them. If they are hungry, feed them. If they are sad, listen and help make them feel important. I am very proud of my kids!!! (24 & 29 yrs)

[redwitch]

What I find exceptionally frightening is that the uTube incidents are not done out of anger but rather to be seen. These kids are fighting just to get the "hits" online. To be that cold about hurting another human is beyond my understanding.

The one of the girls beating up the other girl isn't one of a gang or even "bad" kids getting into a fight. These girls were cheerleaders, on the college track and now are being convicted of felonies as adults. They seriously injured one of their teammates. They've destroyed their lives. All for a tiny bit of fame.

I do wonder where the parents were and what values they taught their daughters. I do know that my daughter would have never stood there and watched this happen, let alone participate. What's frightening is that many kids are afraid to stop these things because they know they'll be on the next "hit list."

So very, very tragic on so many levels.

[Taltarzac]

I saw a lot of this kind of youth on youth violence when growing up a teen in Reno, NV. The only new feature is You Tube and other avenues by which many people can see this stupidity over the Internet.

The military seems to be a very good idea. Knew someone close who got in with a very bad crowd in Reno, Nevada and a court officer rather than putting the troubled teen into juvenile detention sent him to a ranch in central Nevada to grow out of his set of friends.

Sometimes just pulling a youth out of a bad set of friends will work wonders. With me, it was the support of a very special remedial English teacher--Mrs. B. Mitchell-- who saw something in me and challenged me to push myself. She also gave me a very small Scholarship which boosted my self-confidence a great deal.

[SteveZ]

Let's see:

1. The family had eroded to where so many kids are not disciplined at home.
2. The schools quit educating decades ago and became day-care warehouses. (this is worth a topic string by itself!)
3. Morality has become a joke word and everything is now disposable including ethics,
4. The media has become the true parent, and those publicized as role models are druggies, hookers and various other kinds of degenerates.

So, now a possible solution is to dump society's failures onto the military and let the drill instructors sort it out. And, since it's a volunteer military today which does not have to take recruits ordered to service by a hard-charging judge, that would mean reinstituting the draft.

Before we can go back to the days when, during the draft, the youth found itself unwillingly put in an environment where discipline and responsibie behavior were "molded" in 8-12 weeks of basic training by strong-willed individuals not following the Dr. Spock approach to inter-generational conduct, we have to fix at least a couple of the "input" - that being items 1 to 4 above. Otherwise, we asking for miracles.

As an inner-city kid and draftee, I have a lot of empathy here when it comes with this approach to dealing with bullies and kid-social issues. It does work. However, waiting until someone is in their late-teens or later before applying the first kick-in-the-pants is just too late. Today, parents won't do it, teachers can't, the media extols abominable conduct, and the juvenile justice system is impotent - so the result is not surprising. Gangs exist because they actually provide discipline and order (albeit misguided), and kids actually gravitate to it.

A long time ago I once heard that raising a kid was like raising a dog. You had to teach them both tricks, teach them to obey specific commands, and housebreak them. The only difference was that with a kid it took longer...

So, when do the adults take back the world from the kids?????????

[Muncle]

For the most part, I agree with what's been said. However, I take exception with using the military as the be all and end all to cure these jerks. I'll bow to the expertise and experience of many of the career military in the forum, but I did have 4 years active and 25+ as a DOD civilian, some of it with young soldiers working for me. I've found that the military strengthens. If the basics are there (see BSA law), the military training and experience brings them out and makes them stronger. If the kid is an amoral :edit:, he's likely going to be a miserable soldier and likely won't last his first term. CAVEAT: There are exceptions. I saw some young kids who came from bad backgrounds developing into good soldiers, good people, and good citizens. I saw others who were a-holes when they got there, acted like a-holes the whole time they were there, and were a-holes when they were kicked out. In this kind of situation, strengths are magnified and made even greater. Unfortunately, weaknesses are also revealed and magnified.

But, as I said, I will take correction from those of you who have a lot more experience working with these young folks than I.

[Sidney Lanier]

I too essentially agree with SamHass, but Muncle also makes a good point about the military, which is not there to hand-hold recalcitrant kids (though there are successes at times). We hear enough horror stories coming out of Iraq about young soldiers being less than honorably discharged for their inability to adapt to/accept military behavioral life, and even worse those charged with serious crimes (e.g., the one where a group of young soldiers planned and carried out the murder of an Iraqi family in order to rape and then kill the young daughter).

In the '60s I taught in a New York City high school and as an adjunct in special programs at City University of New York. I had my share of what the administration called 'Fulbright scholars' in the sense of 'You take my Fulbright scholar and I'll take yours,' essentially passing them on. We had successes with some, while some of the others literally disappeared and may well have gone on to become sociopaths. But in those days dealing with kids was still a walk in the park, where you still had supportive parents and kids were more responsive. Today it seems to be a whole different story where in too many instances every social institution--starting with family and continuing with schools--has abdicated its responsibility, leading to the uTube videos (among other things...). 'Sad' is the least of it; remember, this is our next generation!

[margejacobs]

Maybe it's time to make youtube responsible and send the message that we do not approve nor appreciate children beating children or any other untoward behavior to get applause from peers on youtube! Wouldn't you think youtube would censor the videos and not put this type influence on there?

[Taltarzac]

Really glad to see the youth coming out so much in support of Senator Barack Obama. http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1700525,00.html

This looks like a very positive development as does how much of a help they seem to be with helping with issues like containing global warming, healthier eating, etc.

I volunteered around lot of youths at the East Lake Community Library in Palm Harbor and often found these teens more mature than many of the adults at that library.

[SteveZ]

Maybe it's time to make youtube responsible and send the message that we do not approve nor appreciate children beating children or any other untoward behavior to get applause from peers on youtube! Wouldn't you think youtube would censor the videos and not put this type influence on there?


Freedom of speech!

On youtube it's amateurs posting videos. In the entertainment industry, it's professionals with $$$Millions involved. Where do you draw the line?

When do we start holding people responsible for their own actions instead of looking for a third party to take the blame and make the corrections? When do parents take control of their families? When do delinquents get treated as such and held accountable?

[Muncle]

Maybe it's time to make youtube responsible and send the message that we do not approve nor appreciate children beating children or any other untoward behavior to get applause from peers on youtube! Wouldn't you think youtube would censor the videos and not put this type influence on there?

I thought of something like that last night when I saw yet another beating filmed especially for YouTube. Fleetingly, I thought it might be interesting if they were forced to show followups: See Madison, Kylie, and Tiffany beating the hell out of Allison. Now see Madison, Kylie, and Tiffany being arrested, tried, and sentenced to 5 years in jail. And finally, see Madison, Kylie, and Tiffany sitting in their cells in adult prison. It might be interesting, but it would impossible to mandate and it ain't gonna happen.

I wish I knew the cause and solution and could act to cure it, but I can't. I'm an expert on raising kids since I don't have any, so I can safely place the primary blame on bad parenting. Oh, society is different today than it was when we were kids. Life is not the same as it was for Ozzie and Harriet or The Beaver, but that's no real explanation, no excuse. Today's families have problems the Brady's didn't have. The Brady's had issues the Cleaver's didn't have. And the Cleaver's life was not at all like the Waltons. But none of those families had it any easier than the others when it came to raising kids. They all had problems specific to their environment. But each cared for their children and openly accepted the fact that raising those kids was their primary purpose. (I'm not Dan Quayle. I know they're fictional characters) We still have many parents who feel and act that way. But at the same time, we have too many single parent families whether by choice, happenstance, or tragedy. We have too many misplaced priorities. We have too many parents who view their children as another property, akin to the BMW or the trip to Aspen. Too many parents want to be their kids' friend. They don't need friends. They need parents.

One of my nieces recently had a sit-down with her youngest daughter as to why the parents would not be paying for college. She explained that as parents, their responsibility was to provide food, shelter, and education until the child was ready to be an adult. They were to provide a sense of responsibility and self-reliance, an understanding of morals and ethics, a strength of character. She didn't tell her that once the girl demonstrated a desire and effort to achieve on her own, mom and dad would quietly help out however they could. That's one niece and nephew-in-law I'm quite proud of. I wish more were like them.

[samhass]

Amen, Steve. I hope you are a parent. I think you would be a good one.




Let's see:

1. The family had eroded to where so many kids are not disciplined at home.
2. The schools quit educating decades ago and became day-care warehouses. (this is worth a topic string by itself!)
3. Morality has become a joke word and everything is now disposable including ethics,
4. The media has become the true parent, and those publicized as role models are druggies, hookers and various other kinds of degenerates.

So, now a possible solution is to dump society's failures onto the military and let the drill instructors sort it out. And, since it's a volunteer military today which does not have to take recruits ordered to service by a hard-charging judge, that would mean reinstituting the draft.

Before we can go back to the days when, during the draft, the youth found itself unwillingly put in an environment where discipline and responsibie behavior were "molded" in 8-12 weeks of basic training by strong-willed individuals not following the Dr. Spock approach to inter-generational conduct, we have to fix at least a couple of the "input" - that being items 1 to 4 above. Otherwise, we asking for miracles.

As an inner-city kid and draftee, I have a lot of empathy here when it comes with this approach to dealing with bullies and kid-social issues. It does work. However, waiting until someone is in their late-teens or later before applying the first kick-in-the-pants is just too late. Today, parents won't do it, teachers can't, the media extols abominable conduct, and the juvenile justice system is impotent - so the result is not surprising. Gangs exist because they actually provide discipline and order (albeit misguided), and kids actually gravitate to it.

A long time ago I once heard that raising a kid was like raising a dog. You had to teach them both tricks, teach them to obey specific commands, and housebreak them. The only difference was that with a kid it took longer...

So, when do the adults take back the world from the kids?????????

[Sidney Lanier]

IMHO: If one thing could change (or more accurately, revert back) that could reverse what's happening, it would be, as mentioned by others in this thread, that parents resume their responsibilities as parents! This in turn would be parental expectations (demands?) on the schools to then do THEIR job which would be infinitely more do-able with the support of parents. We of our generation (and I hate to play the 'age' game...) didn't grow up in a vacuum, and our parents didn't countenance any irresponsibility on our part (or at least tried their utmost to see to it). I was a latchkey kid as my mother had to work, but the responsibility of both my parents in their parental role was clear enough 24/7 in my life, and there was no doubt as to what the expectations were of me. How things have changed, and so relatively quickly too....

[RAB]

Surely you would not hold the youths responsible for there actions. There much to young.
I say .....HOLD THE PARENTS RESPONSIBLE......if you can find them.

[margejacobs]

If you don't hold these kids responsible and accountable now, there will be another time, another such incident. Part of what's wrong with our society is that it's always someone else's fault. While the parents may have failed in their parenting, it is not going to make these kids, at their ages, become caring adults to make the parents pay the price of what they did. You can't convince me at the ages of these kids that they didn't know if was wrong to beat someone up and to show you how wrong they knew it was, they had two lookout guys watching for anyone who might come around that they didn't want to catch them at this ugly game. Maybe you think the punishment will be too severe, but let's think of the little innocent girl with hearing loss; vision loss and who knows what else.

[redwitch]

Having a daughter who is relatively young (21 next month), I think I can safely chime in. The parents do bear teh brunt of the responsibility. Many parents today are so busy being a friend to their child, they forget that their job is to be a parent. Friends don't discipline. Friends don't guide. Many parents are too willing to abrogate their role in their children's life.

The children also need to bear some of the responsibility. These are not girls who had no moral teachings. These are girls who chose to ignore what they knew was right in favor of being part of the new in crowd.

I do not blame YouTube, anymore than I blame movies or television for the behavior of youth. No matter how much parents may try to stop it, kids watch things that are not appropriate. It is up to the parents to teach their children why those things are not appropriate. Open discussions about morality, ethics, sexuality, responsibility should be part of every household. Sadly, they're not.

That being said, not all bad behavior can be blamed on bad parenting. I know parents who have done everything right and still have kids turn out badly. I also parents who did eveything wrong who had children who turned out wonderfully. I've seen siblings treated equally and one child went on to college and the other chose drugs. Sometimes it really is the child -- either by choice or by neurological, chemical or behavorial issues. Sometimes the blame does lie at society's door by refusing to help those parents who have done everything in their power to help their child yet have had door after door slammed shut.

I don't know if these girls have any mental disorders, but I doubt it. At least not so severe that they didn't know right from wrong or could not control themselves. This was not an impulsive act. It was planned. It was done so that a video could be made and posted on a public forum.

The one good thing I have found in the midst of this particular tragedy are the kids on YouTube who have spoken up and said how very wrong the behavior of these girls was. Some of the language used by these kids is rather graphic but the viewpoints are very definite. The vast majority of comments to these videos are in total agreement.

Maybe this incident will get some parents to open their eyes and being willing to talk to their kids about right and wrong. We can but dream.