No cart lights during the daytime

[blueash]

A villages resident has been arrested for driving a golf cart on a street during daylight hours that did not have functioning tail and brake lights.

I am asking for what the legitimacy of the charge might be. The driver did not have a valid driver's license. However it is my understanding that no driver's license is required to operate a golf cart otherwise no 14 year olds could possibly be driving them. Similarly Florida law seems to indicate that the golf cart must have operating lights only if it being operated between sundown and sunrise (when it is dark)

Here is the statute:
316.212 (5) A golf cart may be operated only during the hours between sunrise and sunset, unless the responsible governmental entity has determined that a golf cart may be operated during the hours between sunset and sunrise and the golf cart is equipped with headlights, brake lights, turn signals, and a windshield.

However an additional section reads:

(8) A local governmental entity may enact an ordinance relating to:
(a)  Golf cart operation and equipment which is more restrictive than those enumerated in this section. Upon enactment of such ordinance, the local governmental entity shall post appropriate signs or otherwise inform the residents that such an ordinance exists and that it will be enforced within the local government’s jurisdictional territory. An ordinance referred to in this section must apply only to an unlicensed driver.

Is anyone aware of a Lake county or Lady Lake City ordinance that might apply to this situation? If there is such an ordinance have you seen appropriate signs or been informed that such an ordinance exists?
From Lady Lake website of its local rules:
Equipment and minimum standards. All golf carts operated within golf cart communities shall meet the minimum equipment standards established by Florida Statutes

None of this is meant to suggest that this or any driver of a golf cart should have less than a safe cart, but really, why did they ticket this person? Did she even know the lights were not working? Does she own the cart? Wouldn't most cops just tell you, hey your lights are out, get a new bulb?

[Phanatic Luvr]

Here's a better question ... why would ANYONE in their right mind, operate a golf cart on a main road that DIDN'T have brake lights? Was the cart supposed to be street legal or are you talking about in the golf cart lane on a less busy street? Common sense... But then again!

[Bogie Shooter]

Why not call the police department and ask?

[Navarrian]

Not having access to the specific charge cited on the ticket or what specific charge(s) were made by the arresting officer tends to leave one guessing as to what law or local ordinance applies in order to bolster a defense. It would depend on the wording on the ticket.

[TheVillageChicken]

A villages resident has been arrested for driving a golf cart on a street during daylight hours that did not have functioning tail and brake lights.

I am asking for what the legitimacy of the charge might be. The driver did not have a valid driver's license. However it is my understanding that no driver's license is required to operate a golf cart otherwise no 14 year olds could possibly be driving them. Similarly Florida law seems to indicate that the golf cart must have operating lights only if it being operated between sundown and sunrise (when it is dark)

Here is the statute:
316.212 (5) A golf cart may be operated only during the hours between sunrise and sunset, unless the responsible governmental entity has determined that a golf cart may be operated during the hours between sunset and sunrise and the golf cart is equipped with headlights, brake lights, turn signals, and a windshield.

However an additional section reads:

(8) A local governmental entity may enact an ordinance relating to:
(a)  Golf cart operation and equipment which is more restrictive than those enumerated in this section. Upon enactment of such ordinance, the local governmental entity shall post appropriate signs or otherwise inform the residents that such an ordinance exists and that it will be enforced within the local government’s jurisdictional territory. An ordinance referred to in this section must apply only to an unlicensed driver.

Is anyone aware of a Lake county or Lady Lake City ordinance that might apply to this situation? If there is such an ordinance have you seen appropriate signs or been informed that such an ordinance exists?
From Lady Lake website of its local rules:
Equipment and minimum standards. All golf carts operated within golf cart communities shall meet the minimum equipment standards established by Florida Statutes

None of this is meant to suggest that this or any driver of a golf cart should have less than a safe cart, but really, why did they ticket this person? Did she even know the lights were not working? Does she own the cart? Wouldn't most cops just tell you, hey your lights are out, get a new bulb?


She was stopped for the lighting issue. She was charged as a habitual traffic offender.

I imagine she is well known to Lake County Law Enforcement (https://www.lcso.org/inmates/inmatedetail.php?inmateid=110872) and they are probably tired of dealing with her.

[Bogie Shooter]

Lock em up Dano...............................

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

She was stopped for the lighting issue. She was charged as a habitual traffic offender.

I imagine she is well known to Lake County Law Enforcement (https://www.lcso.org/inmates/inmatedetail.php?inmateid=110872) and they are probably tired of dealing with her.


Exactly! The police are aware of a group of troublemakers in the area. They have been harassing them and arresting them on whatever they can. I believe it's an effort to get them off the streets. The same thing happened a few weeks ago. A guy was arrested for operating without a license. You never hear of anyone arrested for that. They usually ticket you and tell you that you can't drive home and that you'll either have to have the car towed or get someone to drive it home for you. It happened to a friend of mine many years ago and the local cop actually drove the car home for the guy while his partner followed in a the cruiser.

This all part of an effort by the local authorities to remove an undesirable element from out community.

[graciegirl]

A villages resident has been arrested for driving a golf cart on a street during daylight hours that did not have functioning tail and brake lights.

I am asking for what the legitimacy of the charge might be. The driver did not have a valid driver's license. However it is my understanding that no driver's license is required to operate a golf cart otherwise no 14 year olds could possibly be driving them. Similarly Florida law seems to indicate that the golf cart must have operating lights only if it being operated between sundown and sunrise (when it is dark)

Here is the statute:
316.212 (5) A golf cart may be operated only during the hours between sunrise and sunset, unless the responsible governmental entity has determined that a golf cart may be operated during the hours between sunset and sunrise and the golf cart is equipped with headlights, brake lights, turn signals, and a windshield.

However an additional section reads:

(8) A local governmental entity may enact an ordinance relating to:
(a)  Golf cart operation and equipment which is more restrictive than those enumerated in this section. Upon enactment of such ordinance, the local governmental entity shall post appropriate signs or otherwise inform the residents that such an ordinance exists and that it will be enforced within the local government’s jurisdictional territory. An ordinance referred to in this section must apply only to an unlicensed driver.

Is anyone aware of a Lake county or Lady Lake City ordinance that might apply to this situation? If there is such an ordinance have you seen appropriate signs or been informed that such an ordinance exists?
From Lady Lake website of its local rules:
Equipment and minimum standards. All golf carts operated within golf cart communities shall meet the minimum equipment standards established by Florida Statutes

None of this is meant to suggest that this or any driver of a golf cart should have less than a safe cart, but really, why did they ticket this person? Did she even know the lights were not working? Does she own the cart? Wouldn't most cops just tell you, hey your lights are out, get a new bulb?


Would they do the same to a car whose brake lights weren't working? Do you think this person was profiled?

[OpusX1]

It has been my experience that if a vehicle has lights they need to be in working order. If you do not have lights and you are only driving during daylight hours you are fine but if you have lights they need to work night or day.

[Walter123]

Would they do the same to a car whose brake lights weren't working? Do you think this person was profiled?

Yes, I would hope so to the first question and who cares for the second question.

[Walter123]

It has been my experience that if a vehicle has lights they need to be in working order. If you do not have lights and you are only driving during daylight hours you are fine but if you have lights they need to work night or day.

Yes, especially brake lights.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Would they do the same to a car whose brake lights weren't working? Do you think this person was profiled?

I don't she was profiled in the usual sense of the word. If I'm not mistaken she is one of a crowd that is, as they say, "Well known to local authorities". When LE sees one of these people they are looking for any excuse to arrest them.

[blueash]

An automobile is required to have brake lights at all times. A daytime golf cart is not required to have brake lights. So as far as I can tell, there was no offense in having no brake lights working. Cops are not supposed to be harassing citizens to try to get them off the streets. If they are obeying the law they are entitled to the same treatment from law enforcement as you or I. You cannot charge someone as a habitual offender if they are not committing an offense. That is an add on feature based on the number of points you have accumulated.
Habitual Offenders | Florida DMV Regulations (http://www.dmvflorida.org/habitual.shtml)

[blueash]

I don't she was profiled in the usual sense of the word. If I'm not mistaken she is one of a crowd that is, as they say, "Well known to local authorities". When LE sees one of these people they are looking for any excuse to arrest them.

So is that a good thing or a bad thing? How is a person supposed to get back into society's good graces if they are being subjected to cops looking for any excuse to arrest them. I suspect few of us could avoid arrest with that level of scrutiny.

[Walter123]

An automobile is required to have brake lights at all times. A daytime golf cart is not required to have brake lights. So as far as I can tell, there was no offense in having no brake lights working. Cops are not supposed to be harassing citizens to try to get them off the streets. If they are obeying the law they are entitled to the same treatment from law enforcement as you or I. You cannot charge someone as a habitual offender if they are not committing an offense. That is an add on feature based on the number of points you have accumulated.
Habitual Offenders | Florida DMV Regulations (http://www.dmvflorida.org/habitual.shtml)

Baloney, no such thing as a "daytime" cart. The brake lights must work if the cart is used off the golf course.

[BobnBev]

I'm thinking the violator had an "attitude"....and the officer :police: did an "attitude adjustment"

Right or wrong, that's the way it is in the real world.:police:

[blueash]

Baloney, no such thing as a "daytime" cart. The brake lights must work if the cart is used off the golf course.

Walter, you may be right. However you can see the statute above. The law does not seem to require a golf cart operated during daylight to have brake lights. So I may be pitching baloney, but please show me that there is a law consistent with your posting.

Here is what the law requires for a golf cart to be operated on an authorized street during the daylight
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.212.html)


(6) A golf cart must be equipped with efficient brakes, reliable steering apparatus, safe tires, a rearview mirror, and red reflectorized warning devices in both the front and rear.

There is nothing in that regulation about brake lights, tail lights, turn signals.

[graciegirl]

Yes, I would hope so to the first question and who cares for the second question.


I have already said on this forum that I profile and it has NOTHING to do with race. We all do. Some of us don't admit it.

I was just curious why this incident has raised so much emotion to the OP.

[Walter123]

Walter, you may be right. However you can see the statute above. The law does not seem to require a golf cart operated during daylight to have brake lights. So I may be pitching baloney, but please show me that there is a law consistent with your posting.

Here is what the law requires for a golf cart to be operated on an authorized street during the daylight
Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.212.html)


(6) A golf cart must be equipped with efficient brakes, reliable steering apparatus, safe tires, a rearview mirror, and red reflectorized warning devices in both the front and rear.

There is nothing in that regulation about brake lights, tail lights, turn signals.

Looks like I'm gonna munch on a crow sandwich. Crazy as it is I can't find a brake light law for carts driven between sunrise and sunset.

[Walter123]

I have already said on this forum that I profile and it has NOTHING to do with race. We all do. Some of us don't admit it.

I was just curious why this incident has raised so much emotion to the OP.

You asked two questions and I answered them. Why are you getting defensive?

[blueash]

Looks like I'm gonna munch on a crow sandwich. Crazy as it is I can't find a brake light law for carts driven between sunrise and sunset.

You get the "good poster of the day" award. It is so refreshing to see someone read the comments, do the research, and come back and give an honest reply. Thank you

[blueash]

I have already said on this forum that I profile and it has NOTHING to do with race. We all do. Some of us don't admit it.

I was just curious why this incident has raised so much emotion to the OP.

As the OP (I think directed at me, not you Walter) it raises a little emotion because I don't want my law enforcement making stuff up. I want them being vigilant, honest, polite, and having more courage than I would have. But I don't want them selectively enforcing laws. If I get a ticket for rolling through a stop sign, I expect the governor would be treated the same. If I don't get a ticket for no functioning brake lights, I expect that a person whose face is known to the police will be treated no differently. And if the person has not committed a crime, I certainly don't want police making stuff up to charge them with.

So I read the story on line and could not understand the reason for the arrest and posted on this forum to see if someone else could explain it to me. So far no one has given me a supported reason. It has been suggested it was because she had an attitude, and that she is known to LE, and that they are trying to find any excuse to arrest her. I am not clear why you are asking about race and profiling. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the law, perhaps the cop didn't know the law. The professionalism of our local officers would seem to me to be a very important topic for this forum. So GG, from what you know at this point, are you convinced that the arresting officer(s) performed their duties in the most professional manner possible?

[redwitch]

Many older carts only have back lights when the headlights are on. No brake lights whatsoever. I discovered this when I was following a friend. She stopped short, no lights came on, I bumped her. Mentioned she had no brake lights. She talked to her mechanic. He told her it would cost approximately $300 to add brake lights. She said never mind.

[Chazz]

Blueash, you raise good questions! If the report in the online news source is correct, and complete, there doesn't seem to be a basis for the initial arrest. I suspect that there is more to the story than what was written in the news. It was also stated that she was later arrested on an out-of-county warrant.

[Indydealmaker]

She must have been a VERY habitual offender to lose her license for 5 years.

[redwitch]

If she was that well known to LEOs, why didn't they just pull her records for any warrants and pick her up? I'm with blueash in not liking the idea of her being picked up on a bogus charge that shouldn't hold up in court regardless of past behavior. The liberal in me wants to scream at the perversion of justice. The economic conservative wants to bang some heads together at the waste of money for a trial and potential lawsuit.

As to harassing people of bad repute, it's a pretty common practice. Get 'em out of your town any way you can. Can't I say I totally agree with the practice but I certainly understand it.

[Walter123]

You get the "good poster of the day" award. It is so refreshing to see someone read the comments, do the research, and come back and give an honest reply. Thank you

No problem blueash. When you're right you're right and when I'm wrong I'm wrong! Carry on.

[Topspinmo]

IMO the club cars that got the halogen after market lights and blind everybody should be ticketed (IMO club car design lights are not for street use cause the don't shine fwd and down).

You know the ones that have the center light which don't shine down an looks like Freight Train coming or River Barge with the halogen lights. Sure the Driver of the cart can see just fine, but anybody in front get blinded no matter what your driving or walking. Then there's the Jacked up SUV and Trucks where the head lights are above Car roofs.

IMO the laws can be enforced in many ways usually by the officers, once ticket has been written YOU are guilty and it will cost you three times as much to try to prove your not. That's why 99.9% just pay the fine and be done with it.

[BarryRX]

So is that a good thing or a bad thing? How is a person supposed to get back into society's good graces if they are being subjected to cops looking for any excuse to arrest them. I suspect few of us could avoid arrest with that level of scrutiny.

By not breaking the law! And I could avoid arrest with that level of scrutiny as well as most everyone I know. I don't know the particulars of this case, and this woman certainly seems like a criminal with warrants for stolen property, possession, and habitual traffic offenses. But if she was stopped for no good reason, then that reminds me of the old days when a rogue cop would stop you and break your taillight with his nightstick if you objected to much. We need to find the line between good police work and imposition of our rights as citizens. It is a tough line to find. I usually like to err on the side of the police. They are brave folks who run towards the sound of gunfire when everyone else is running away. I was taught by my parents that the policeman is my friend. That is why it is so important that we as citizens make sure that the line is never crossed by the police.

[TheVillageChicken]

Would they do the same to a car whose brake lights weren't working? Do you think this person was profiled?

I would say that, yes she was profiled. However, this from the Lake County Sheriff's website provides some insight.


Criminal Profiling -vs- Bias-based Profiling: Criminal profiling is one of many accepted and necessary law enforcement investigative practices. However, it differs from and should not be confused with bias-based profiling. One is an investigative tool; the other, a discriminatory practice. Illegal profiling refers to a decision by a deputy to stop, detain, interdict, or search an individual based on their race, color, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, gender, or economic status. The Lake County Sheriff's Office prohibits illegal profiling as a law enforcement tactic and will not tolerate or condone its use by any of our deputies.

[MarkinMd]

This case is interesting. I would like to see how it plays out in court. I always found traffic statutes and traffic regulations to be highly complex. I won't pretend to know Florida traffic laws but if their traffic book is like Marylands its about 2 1/2 inchs thick. Once you find the regulation or law that you are looking up it references about five other statutes. And of course when you go to those references it references another. After a couple hours of looking all that up, then you need to find case law. Of course don't forget in many Federal cases and definitions are out there. I worked on a crash team for about 5 years. We handled fatal crashes and fly-outs. Some of my officers were real gurus with traffic laws and the reconstruction of crashes and even they would debate the interpretation of certain laws.
In my case if I wasn't certain about the issuance of a citation I would err on the side of the citizen. And the bottom line its gets to the opinion of the judge. Many of them will rule different ways with exactly the same evidence. This case is intersting