Watch those rolling stops

[logdog]

A friend got a ticket this weekend for not coming to a full stop in his golf cart at the intersection of Panama and Lisbon near Spanish Springs. $166 fine and 3 points on his license. Three cops were nearby out of sight looking for traffic violations. You have been warned...

[Bogie Shooter]

From time to time this is a "gotcha" intersection. People use as a shortcut to SS. Break the law, pay the fine.

[blueeagle65]

If that is what it takes to make people obey the law, then so be it! Get 'em all.

[rubicon]

$166 fine and 3 points on the driver license for a golf cart violation seems a bit much? I am wondering if a golf cart is not a registered vehicle how can points be assessed to the golf cart driver. Suppose a bicyclist blew through like they normally do does the cylist get 3 points too and the $166 fine?????

[wholman66]

It's about time.. If you are driving ANYTHING on a public street, obey the law.. I don't feel sorry for anyone getting a ticket for this... it's the law, STOP.....

[sunnyatlast]

Suppose a bicyclist blew through like they normally do does the cylist get 3 points too and the $166 fine?????

Good question!

[billethkid]

rolling Stop is not really a stop at all is it?

Nail 'em all. If they think they don't have to stop then they should also think it is OK to be fined if caught.

Book 'em Danno

[DeanFL]

A few days ago we took our cart from Gilchrist to LSL - the second trip up there in the cart, we normally drive. On the way back the path transitioned from a dedicated MM to the golf cart lane on the road. Since there were no cars at the gates, I slowed and made the right. I then heard from the passenger seat "you were supposed to stop...". She said the white vertical post had 'stop' on it. My bad - but, so used to see an actual stop sign. But, now I know. I think.

Yes - that fine mentioned by the OP sure seems excessive, and yes - how can 'points' be assigned? Are they checking bikes for a stop too?

[blueash]

$166 fine and 3 points on the driver license for a golf cart violation seems a bit much? I am wondering if a golf cart is not a registered vehicle how can points be assessed to the golf cart driver. Suppose a bicyclist blew through like they normally do does the cylist get 3 points too and the $166 fine?????

No,

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0322/Sections/0322.27.html)

Points are only given when operating a motorized vehicle
(i) This subsection does not apply to persons operating a nonmotorized vehicle for which a driver license is not required.

[zcaveman]

Suppose a bicyclist blew through like they normally do does the cylist get 3 points too and the $166 fine?????

Based on another thread on bicyclist behavior, they should not be fined. It is an Idaho or Ohio stop or something. Their feet are in stirrups and it would be a problem to stop. Just ask them.

Z

[Uberschaf]

A driver license is not required to drive a golf cart on streets that have been designated for golf use.So where do the points come in ? Say my grandson is 14 driving a golf cart blows through a stop sign and gets 3 points on his future license.I don't how that's applicable.Somewhere there is a grey area.

[Edjkoz]

It's a shame that people just don't use common sense and we could have avoided the need for such crack downs but everyone seems to think that they have the right away

[NYGUY]

No,

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0322/Sections/0322.27.html)

Points are only given when operating a motorized vehicle
(i) This subsection does not apply to persons operating a nonmotorized vehicle for which a driver license is not required.

Just sounds like another situation where the law needs to be changed!!

[Uberschaf]

How about when a gate is down and a stop sign is put up on a plastic sawhorse and everyone blows through it like its's not a stop sign.I asked my neighbor who was a sheriff what stop signs are legal and he said all octagon signs are legal it's a international law.

[Barefoot]

rolling Stop is not really a stop at all is it?
Nail 'em all. If they think they don't have to stop then they should also think it is OK to be fined if caught. Book 'em Danno

:agree:

[red tail]

A friend got a ticket this weekend for not coming to a full stop in his golf cart at the intersection of Panama and Lisbon near Spanish Springs. $166 fine and 3 points on his license. Three cops were nearby out of sight looking for traffic violations. You have been warned...

they should name that area 'waldo' ! its a natural for hiding and surprising.

[alzjr]

A bicycle driver can receive a ticket for any infraction of driving laws. Obviously if one does not have a driver's license there will not be any points but there will still be a fine.

[graciegirl]

they should name that area 'waldo' ! its a natural for hiding and surprising.

I am on the side of the cops. 13 people have died here in the last four years due to golf cart accidents. AND many disabled and dozens injured.

[red tail]

I am on the side of the cops. 13 people have died here in the last four years due to golf cart accidents. AND many disabled and dozens injured.

from rolling stops?? I think those 3 officers could be utilized covering many areas instead of a cash gathering place.

[graciegirl]

from rolling stops?? I think those 3 officers could be utilized covering many areas instead of a cash gathering place.


Just a little bit won't hurt has caused a lot of problems in this world.

Everyone has their own ideas. But my mother put the fear of God in me.

It's what the sign says.

[red tail]

Just a little bit won't hurt has caused a lot of problems in this world.

Is it wronger to hijack a car than steal several seven dollar cigars?

Everyone has their own ideas. But my mother put the fear of God in me.

It's what the sign says.

the sign is not my point! 3 officers hiding to catch a golf cart not coming to a complete stop and writing tickets is not good utilization of our officers. particularly when we have cars speeding up and down morse and rio grande narrowly missing golf carts at unsafe speeds.

[mickey100]

Red tail, I agree. I was driving yesterday and came across two separate accidents in traffic circles. People still don't obey the rules of the road in those circles, and the property damage and danger to other drivers is so much more than a rolling stop by a golf cart in a quiet residential area. They could put a police presence at Buena Vista and Camino Real, or Morse and Camino Real, and write dozens of tickets per hour. And they'd be doing the community a favor by educating drivers about the rules of the road, as well as preventing accidents.

[shcisamax]

the sign is not my point! 3 officers hiding to catch a golf cart not coming to a complete stop and writing tickets is not good utilization of our officers. particularly when we have cars speeding up and down morse and rio grande narrowly missing golf carts at unsafe speeds.

I agree. Rather disappointing that it takes three officers to deal with a golf cart rolling through a stop sign.

[Deseylou]

I live quite close to a traffic circle and gate entry
I can't tell you the number of times I hear schreeching tires
I don't understand if you don't need a license to drive a golf cart , how they can put 3 points on your record
That's more points then causing an accident

[wholman66]

If EVERYONE followed the driving laws, this conversation would not be happening!!!

[memason]

Here's the irony....

Folks don't stop for a stop sign, but they stop where there isn't one!

Go figure ????

[Topspinmo]

Another Titbit the solid white line across the street is also stop sign and your supposed to stop behind it. Any officer can park at 4 way stop and write 100 tickets day. Especially the ones the pull half way into the intersection stop and look a you like you done something wrong. IMO your NOT in line at 4 way stop until YOU STOP!

Minor traffic laws are there for city and counties make revenue. Helps offset amount taxes we pay. WE were all taught and took test to stop behind stops signs to drive on public roads and know it's unlawful. So the awaking in the fine.

Officers have to work in gang, you never know now days when somebody will just shoot single officer. They need back up even for routine traffic enforcement IMO.

[BarryRX]

the sign is not my point! 3 officers hiding to catch a golf cart not coming to a complete stop and writing tickets is not good utilization of our officers. particularly when we have cars speeding up and down morse and rio grande narrowly missing golf carts at unsafe speeds.

I always thought this to be faulty logic. Why ticket people for "A" when "B" is much more serious. Then why ticket people for "B" when "C" is more serious. By that logic, cops should only go after the very worst criminals like murderers and pedolphiles. And, that assumes that by ticketing someone for a stop sign violation they are not also chasing murderers and pedophiles. If I were to be ticketed for a stop sign violation on a quiet street, I would probably be upset a bit but I also know that when I got behind the wheel I was required to obey all the laws, not just the ones I agree with.

[red tail]

police presence stops careless driving more than hiding behind a bush!! how can that be faulty logic.

[NotGolfer]

We see infractions nearly every time we're out and about. I think many folks forget their Driver's Ed classes when they get behind the wheel. Signs are there for a reason, laws are made for a reason so if you break the law and get caught the penalty is also for a reason. Being human, we always want to place the blame somewhere else. :ohdear:

Here in T.V., especially when you get to be the size our community is and with ALL the folks from the surrounding area driving our streets--one needs to be vigilant when out and about. I see people buzzing through the yield signs all the time at the circles, people sometimes NOT even slowing down at the stop signs and blowing through. I would say that nearly all the accidents that happen here because of not paying attention and not abiding by the law.

[dave from deland]

You must stop at the stop bar painted on the road way and then proceed. Rolling over the stop bar and then stopping is a violation, car or golf cart. If there is a stop sign but no stop bar, you must proceed far enough to see approaching traffic, with the right of way, and then stop.

I stop at the stop bar in my car and my cart. Hope someone stops, where they are supposed to stop and not rear end me, because they don't see any traffic coming. I don't want to spend the rest of my retirement injured or dead. Good for the police enforcing the traffic infractions.

[CFrance]

We see infractions nearly every time we're out and about. I think many folks forget their Driver's Ed classes when they get behind the wheel. Signs are there for a reason, laws are made for a reason so if you break the law and get caught the penalty is also for a reason. Being human, we always want to place the blame somewhere else. :ohdear:

Here in T.V., especially when you get to be the size our community is and with ALL the folks from the surrounding area driving our streets--one needs to be vigilant when out and about. I see people buzzing through the yield signs all the time at the circles, people sometimes NOT even slowing down at the stop signs and blowing through. I would say that nearly all the accidents that happen h ere because of not paying attention and not abiding by the law.
So true. I was on 466A this morning around 10:30, going west, and there was a woman in the westbound lanes going east. It looked like she came out of the Colony shopping center and didn't realize the road is divided.

[Stdole]

Hats off to the "POLICE OFFICERS" for doing their jobs... drivers should do theirs by obeying the traffic laws and we would not be having this particular conversation... take it and say you are wrong ... "Not well I guess we need to change another law" To our POLICE OFFICERS THANKS for doing a good job here in The Villages.. Please continue to enforce our traffic laws only good will follow for most of its residents.

A safer life!

[tomwed]

I don't think if you don't ride a bike you will understand my position. When you are on a bike you peddle as if the cars are out to get you. You stop at stop signs when nobody is behind you. Why not? But it's easy to get spooked when you see a car behind you approaching. You need to trust that they will stop but I would rather take my chances with the police and a ticket if the roads ahead are clear. I think it's fair to say that most of us have been in a rear ended collision. In a car that may hurt your car and hurt your neck but on a bike, you don't have a chance.

Just like in golf, it comes down to risks and rewards.

[2BNTV]

A rolling stop is considered blowing through a stop sign by LEO. You have crossed onto a public road and points are to be assessed to your license unless you pay for the driving class and have the points waived, (once every 12 months is allowed). I prefer the police have a presence in neighborhoods preventing thefts, than spend a lot of time issuing tickets, but that's just me. They hide in inconspicuous places and give out tickets by the bushel full. Are we still playing "cowboys and indians"?

Are the police just generating revenues? Everyone believes in public safety and it is needed in some cases.

I received a ticket and felt like I was treated as public enemy one. People do make mistakes!!! For those who have never received a ticket, it's only a matter of time, and then you might get more sympathic, to one's fate. GOD bless those who will never break the law as they seem to be perfect. Last time I looked, my picture was not in the post office. :D

Until then, I will su*k it up, and move on with my life.

[DonH57]

Anybody seen the carts that have spinner caps just like you can get for your car? They do make a cart appear to still be moving forward. Definately not putting them on our cart.

[Villagesperson]

Hats off to the "POLICE OFFICERS" for doing their jobs... drivers should do theirs by obeying the traffic laws and we would not be having this particular conversation... take it and say you are wrong ... "Not well I guess we need to change another law" To our POLICE OFFICERS THANKS for doing a good job here in The Villages.. Please continue to enforce our traffic laws only good will follow for most of its residents.

A safer life!

I don't think there can be enough police presence relative to traffic, especially this time of the year.

Watching people just ignoring speed limts, etc. leads me to think we have not enough police presence.

[rubicon]

No,

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine (http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0322/Sections/0322.27.html)

Points are only given when operating a motorized vehicle
(i) This subsection does not apply to persons operating a nonmotorized vehicle for which a driver license is not required.

Hi blueash: One thing that caught my eye while reading through the statue is section316.1933 wherein revocation can occur if the accident results in death personal injury or property damage of $500. $500 damage to a vehicle now a days is a ding on the quarter panel. Many states moved to $2500 and above

Further both with golf carts and bicycles death personal injury or property damage can occur. So I am confused and not intending to be argumentative but as one poster articulated well kids driving golf carts do not have licenses. Yet many golf cart drivers do as do bicyclist. And bicyclist can do well over 20 mph.

It would seem that if LOE are going to be intent on making sure golf cart drivers come to a stop with all four wheels for at least three seconds then they should be as intent to make certain that bicyclist come to a full three second stop and the cop only has to watch two wheels. In my humble view there needs to be a reassessment along these lines

You might have read in today's paper that two Florida residents are suing America Traffic solutions concerning red camera placements and instructions. The red camera at intersections are controversial not only because they actually increase rear end collisions but because they can be manipulated to capture more people and hence more revenue .

the common sense solutions for avoiding accidents is to allow two more second delay of the caution light but that won't bring in more revenue.

Most people are not against LOE active enforcement they just wish that they would fairly or if you will fairly discriminate among all offenders and not NOT exercise enforcement solely for revenue. As barefoot so aptly states experiencing that Waldo moment

[memason]

I guess we should all be happy that our LEO's have nothing better to do than give tickets to golf carts rolling through a stop sign on a little traveled residential street. I suspect they were only there, due to someone complaining in that area.

How often do you see a LEO make a full stop at a stop sign? I don't see it happen very often... It also amazes me how little they [LEO's] use their turn signals, even when making turns from busy intersections, like 466a and BV.

[HMLRHT1]

Ok, my wife was driving down Alandari Ln this afternoon. She came to a stop at English Ivy Cir. Next thing she knows there is a motorcycle deputy pulling her over. The deputy told her that she stopped at the stop sign but it wasn't long enough. He didn't state it was a rolling stop. It was just not long enough. How long is not long enough? I believe that if you break the law you should pay the penalty but when the deputy told my wife that she did stop then where is the violation? At that point it makes it clear to me that it is quota for the month and entrapment and not enforcement. Should we go to court? We know that the fine is $166 and 3 points. If we lose or win what are the court costs? Anyone have any recommendations?
Thanks.

[Barefoot]

The deputy told her that she stopped at the stop sign but it wasn't long enough. He didn't state it was a rolling stop.

What was the charge written on the ticket?

[HMLRHT1]

What was the charge written on the ticket?

The charge that was written was " ran stop sign ". But as I said before he said she did stop.

[BobnBev]

Ok, my wife was driving down Alandari Ln this afternoon. She came to a stop at English Ivy Cir. Next thing she knows there is a motorcycle deputy pulling her over. The deputy told her that she stopped at the stop sign but it wasn't long enough. He didn't state it was a rolling stop. It was just not long enough. How long is not long enough? I believe that if you break the law you should pay the penalty but when the deputy told my wife that she did stop then where is the violation? At that point it makes it clear to me that it is quota for the month and entrapment and not enforcement. Should we go to court? We know that the fine is $166 and 3 points. If we lose or win what are the court costs? Anyone have any recommendations?
Thanks.

I would contact the Elected Sheriff, not the deputy, and ask him to void the ticket and educate the deputy regarding stop signs.

[dave from deland]

Ok, my wife was driving down Alandari Ln this afternoon. She came to a stop at English Ivy Cir. Next thing she knows there is a motorcycle deputy pulling her over. The deputy told her that she stopped at the stop sign but it wasn't long enough. He didn't state it was a rolling stop. It was just not long enough. How long is not long enough? I believe that if you break the law you should pay the penalty but when the deputy told my wife that she did stop then where is the violation? At that point it makes it clear to me that it is quota for the month and entrapment and not enforcement. Should we go to court? We know that the fine is $166 and 3 points. If we lose or win what are the court costs? Anyone have any recommendations?
Thanks.Recommendations?. I think that the wife was mistaken that the deputy told her that she didn't stop long enough but by all means, use your right to go to court and present her side of the incident.

[DonH57]

How many Mississippi's did she count? Maybe Florida is a 5 Mississippi state and not 4.

[HMLRHT1]

Does it say in the law how long do your wheels have to be at a complete stop before moving again?

[rubicon]

Ok, my wife was driving down Alandari Ln this afternoon. She came to a stop at English Ivy Cir. Next thing she knows there is a motorcycle deputy pulling her over. The deputy told her that she stopped at the stop sign but it wasn't long enough. He didn't state it was a rolling stop. It was just not long enough. How long is not long enough? I believe that if you break the law you should pay the penalty but when the deputy told my wife that she did stop then where is the violation? At that point it makes it clear to me that it is quota for the month and entrapment and not enforcement. Should we go to court? We know that the fine is $166 and 3 points. If we lose or win what are the court costs? Anyone have any recommendations?
Thanks.

Hi HMLRHT1:

Same thing happened to my wife three years ago and she took a computer driving course to remove the points. she still complains about the unfair treatment. the answer to how long to stop all four wheels have to be stopped for 3 seconds here

I agree that LOE has a tough job and I agree that if you break the law then you need to pay the price.

However I disagree when LOE places people at a disadvantage such as when a road has a continuum of up speeds then down speeds and they way in wait to catch you as a speed goes from 55mph to 45mph and up again, etc.
Barefoot's waldo is a prime example. so are red cameras at intersection as they are subject to abuse and manipulation. I also question this obsession with golf carts. I wonder how many bicyclist get ticketed here?

[2BNTV]

Ok, my wife was driving down Alandari Ln this afternoon. She came to a stop at English Ivy Cir. Next thing she knows there is a motorcycle deputy pulling her over. The deputy told her that she stopped at the stop sign but it wasn't long enough. He didn't state it was a rolling stop. It was just not long enough. How long is not long enough? I believe that if you break the law you should pay the penalty but when the deputy told my wife that she did stop then where is the violation? At that point it makes it clear to me that it is quota for the month and entrapment and not enforcement. Should we go to court? We know that the fine is $166 and 3 points. If we lose or win what are the court costs? Anyone have any recommendations?
Thanks.

Obliviously, you can fight the ticket. Probably won't win.

Some people have tried "Ticket Clinic", and the reviews shows mixed results. Might have to pay even more money and they don't guarantee the points to be excluded for her license. a friend of mine used them and paid even more money, and they didn't do anything for him.

Another option is to pay the fine but you are allowed to take a driving course and the points will not be added to her license, assuming she hasn't taken the class within the last 12 months.

[HMLRHT1]

Thanks everyone for ur input. I believe my wife will go the route of taking the class, possibly online, and pay the penalty. She doesn't believe she would get a fair hearing here in central FL because she feels women are discriminated here. So it's better for everyone that she take the class and at least lose the points? Anyone have any idea how many points you have to have to raise the cost of ur car insurance?

[collie1228]

This 3 second rule is something I've never heard of. I have gone through the intersection of Lisbon and Panama at least a dozen times when the sheriff's deputy has its stop sign "sting" going on, and I always come to a complete stop, as I've seen many tickets being written there. But I have never waited 3 seconds unless a vehicle was approaching from my left. If a deputy ever gave me a ticket for not waiting 3 seconds, I would politely ask him to specifically write that on the ticket and immediately go see a lawyer.