Nurse in Maine breaks quarantine

[JB in TV]

Nurse in Maine breaks quarantine.

I am very torn about this.

On one hand, she is blatantly disregarding the rules.. It just seems so out of character for a health care professional to be so ...(what's the word?)... Cavalier. A person who chooses the medical professional as a career does so so they can help others. Yet this nurse believes her personal freedom is more important than protecting others? As I have said before this doesn’t make sense. Would she not give a patient medication that was ordered by a doctor because she thinks it is wrong, or thought it wouldn't help?

On the other hand she has yet to show any indication of being infected, and none of us would like being in quarantine in her situation. I still wonder if we can pin the abundance of press on this situation to her attorney(s).

I make a point to obey all rules, (at least since I became an adult) even when I think they are wrong, or "don't apply to me". I think this nurse should also. I wonder if her nursing license is at risk because of her behavior?

[kansasr]

The only rule she is breaking is the attempt by that idiot governor in Maine to step in when he knows absolutely nothing about infectious disease. The woman has no symptoms, has tested negative for Ebola, yet somehow this governor thinks he knows more than the medical community. His, and Cris Christie's attempts to interject themselves into this only serves to worsen the situation.

I for one am glad she is speaking out against the idiocy that is our government today.

[billethkid]

The only rule she is breaking is the attempt by that idiot governor in Maine to step in when he knows absolutely nothing about infectious disease. The woman has no symptoms, has tested negative for Ebola, yet somehow this governor thinks he knows more than the medical community. His, and Cris Christie's attempts to interject themselves into this only serves to worsen the situation.

I for one am glad she is speaking out against the idiocy that is our government today.

When others who have come home showing no effects of the disease, after the same exposure she has had, then a next day they have come down with a fever? What everybody is glossing over for this camera hound, 15 minutes of fame, embarassment to the medical profession is that she could EASILY come down with a fever this afternoon ot tomorrow while she is in the 21 day window.

Why should she feel priviledged to not comply with the 21 day quarantine like others in similar exposre situations? Why does she or the media or the lawyers think she is any different than the military who will undergo a 21 day quarantine (and please don't embarass yourself by espousing the volunteer aspect being a difference.......DO YOU THINK THE DISEASE KNOWS?).

The woman is doing nothing more than exploiting the media that is only covering her story because it facilitates their agenda.

At best, remaining polite, she is an embarassment to the rest of the medical profession and military that are doing what is right.

[pooh]

I agree Bille...and I think she might not have done well in microbiology class.

"There are rapid, cheap tests for Ebola, based on detecting antibodies to the virus, but they work only when a victim has already been ill for several days. Antibodies are produced by the body’s counterattack on the virus, and are therefore not detectable until that counterattack is well underway. By that time, the victim might have infected others.

A test called an RT-PCR, for reverse transcriptase polymerase chain reaction, detects bits of the RNA of the virus itself, so it can be used much earlier in the infection. In some cases, a very sensitive PCR test may detect the virus two days before fever and other symptoms appear. But there is no way to know which people will develop enough virus in their blood to detect soon after they are infected, and which will take many more days."

She may not be ill....but then again, who knows for sure. Heaven forbid she does develop symptoms and others might be potentially impacted.

[Avista]

She as no symtoms and is not contagious at this point.

[sunnyatlast]

It's not about the "idiot governor" nor the narcissist twenty-something who thinks she can save the world with her vast knowledge and ideology.

It's about the millions of state constituents who have to trust that state government is doing its job, to assure that licensed healthcare providers obey the law, to protect other patients already in the hospitals who are immune compromised, and the workers needed to care for them. Her boyfriend is a nursing student doing clinicals.

She passed the same screening tests as the dr. diagnosed a few days later with ebola in NY. Nobody except God knew if she would result the same as the dr, and so some mere mortals charged with enforcing the law had to make judgement calls--on behalf of the state constituencies, not just for one individual narcissist seeking a speech gig at the 2016 convention!

[billethkid]

She as no symtoms and is not contagious at this point.

And if she becomes contagious tomorrow then what?

I wonder why when others to date who have shown no symptoms and were not contagious, came down with a fever.....why was hundreds of thousands of dollars and peoples time taken to find and follow everybody they came in contact with when they were NOT CONTAGIOUS?????

And if you were having breakfast in the restaurant where she was at the table next to you and then came down with a fever what would your response be?

THAT is the point!

[RedChariot]

Suck it up Buttercup. Stop whining. For the greater good. Till the CDC or whoever can come up with a definitive plan for all who have been exposed to Ebola patients, stay home. You are in the comfort of your home with your partner. Not so bad. It's 21 days. Not 6 months. Enjoy your 15 minutes in the sun. You'll soon be forgotten.

[rubicon]

pooh you are spot on . The officials are not dealing effectively with medical science instead their playing political science and it clearly shows,

The science of Ebola is not well understood and it is showing as the CDC revises its protocols on a weekly basis. Ebola has an unstable RNA genome which tend to make genetic errors as each Ebola strand copies itself and multiples.....which means the disease is changing ( mutating)over time (WSJ)

American soldiers are being forced to work in this effort and forced to be quarantined. Yet they are not in direct contact with Ebola patients or anywhere near. So can one deduce that if soldiers who are not in direct contact need to be under mandatory quarantine clearly healthcare workers who are in direct contact with patients should also be under mandatory quarantine?

Shouldn't the oath that healthcare workers take of first "do no harm"apply here?

The government's first order of business is to protect the public and it has been clear from the beginning that both WHO and the CDC are in disarray because they are focused on political science and not medical science

[shcisamax]

Given the possible consequences, I would rather start off with a more restrictive policy and work backwards lessening the stringent guidelines than start off with too lenient a policy and then have to try to catch up - in the meantime endangering far more people.

[sunnyatlast]

Given the possible consequences, I would rather start off with a more restrictive policy and work backwards lessening the stringent guidelines than start off with too lenient a policy and then have to try to catch up - in the meantime endangering far more people.

Yes, but you're using common sense and logic, and aren't looking to make headlines to get more cameras focused on you for that dream job on MSNBC, or sitting in the key balcony seat at the next state of the union address, or for giving a speech at the 2016 convention where she'll teach us pathetic women about our inability to succeed with our pathetic minds and insights.

[stroglass]

As a health care worker should you no think of others? What is A few days inside if that's the rule we all have to live by and if you don't like the rules then don't go where you would be subject to them on your return or just stay were you were to begin with

[Bruiser1]

Nurse in Maine breaks quarantine.

I am very torn about this.

On one hand, she is blatantly disregarding the rules.. It just seems so out of character for a health care professional to be so ...(what's the word?)... Cavalier. A person who chooses the medical professional as a career does so so they can help others. Yet this nurse believes her personal freedom is more important than protecting others? As I have said before this doesn’t make sense. Would she not give a patient medication that was ordered by a doctor because she thinks it is wrong, or thought it wouldn't help?

On the other hand she has yet to show any indication of being infected, and none of us would like being in quarantine in her situation. I still wonder if we can pin the abundance of press on this situation to her attorney(s).

I make a point to obey all rules, (at least since I became an adult) even when I think they are wrong, or "don't apply to me". I think this nurse should also. I wonder if her nursing license is at risk because of her behavior?

This should be addressed by THE EBOLA CZAR!!!
By the way where is he ? Is he in quarantine?:posting:

[sunnyatlast]

This should be addressed by THE EBOLA CZAR!!!
By the way where is he ? Is he in quarantine?:posting:

The ebola czar is probably hiding from Kaci, the nurse who's a CDC employee.

She knows too much and it's more than he knows.

[duhbear]

You know, if someone were to go walking along with a few sticks of dynamite would that make those who feel this potential time bomb of a nurse should run around wherever she wants nervous. Sure would. So now, why is it okay for her to go out before the 21 day incubation period is up?

[sunnyatlast]

You know, if someone were to go walking along with a few sticks of dynamite would that make those who feel this potential time bomb of a nurse should run around wherever she wants nervous. Sure would. So now, why is it okay for her to go out before the 21 day incubation period is up?

Because if you asked people what they were taught in 5th grade about droplets spreading cold/flu germs onto others without touching them or their poop/vomit, the answer of most would be:

"Uuuhhh…..", or

"I don't recall".

Here is the Oct. 27 CDC fact sheet on what we already knew from grade school:

"Ebola is spread through droplets"

http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/infections-spread-by-air-or-droplets.pdf
-----------
***UPDATE on 10/30/14 at 9:40 pm:

While reading Natural News' article on this topic, I saw that they had posted the above-linked CDC fact sheet on the Natural News website:

"Here's a backup source of the PDF just in case the CDC scrubs it:

http://www.naturalnews.com/files/infections-spread-by-air-or-droplets.pdf"

Indeed, the CDC has now "scrubbed it" (see first link to the fact sheet I posted).

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/047457_Ebola_transmission_CDC_quackery_aerosolized _particles.html##ixzz3HgMcw6ii

[jflynn1]

She Broke no laws.

[billethkid]

She Broke no laws.

Neither did patient zero who died. His family and everybody they could find who he came in contact had to be quarantined. They did not break any laws either.

How about the doctor who came back, exhibeted no symptoms, went all over NYC....he didn't break any laws either. But when he came down with a fever they tried to find everybody he might have come in contact with to QUARANTINE them.

Our troops who will not even be near the infected...will have broken no laws...BUT....they will go into a 21 day quarantine before being allowed to return to the USA.

So if anybody exposed to ebola patients, come home with no symptoms, don't break any laws, go carelessly about their business as if they just got back from the Caribbean and then they get sick and infect other people....not having broken any laws has what to do with the fact THEY WERE EXPOSED? That they are potentially capable of turning symptomatic within 21 days. Just what the:swear:does not breaking any laws have to do with medical or social common sense?

If we can live with 25,000 people per year dying from the flu, while they were not breaking any laws. We should also be prepared to allow 25,000 more to die from ebola....after not breaking any laws ....eh!!

[2BNTV]

When others who have come home showing no effects of the disease, after the same exposure she has had, then a next day they have come down with a fever? What everybody is glossing over for this camera hound, 15 minutes of fame, embarassment to the medical profession is that she could EASILY come down with a fever this afternoon ot tomorrow while she is in the 21 day window.

Why should she feel priviledged to not comply with the 21 day quarantine like others in similar exposre situations? Why does she or the media or the lawyers think she is any different than the military who will undergo a 21 day quarantine (and please don't embarass yourself by espousing the volunteer aspect being a difference.......DO YOU THINK THE DISEASE KNOWS?).

The woman is doing nothing more than exploiting the media that is only covering her story because it facilitates their agenda.

At best, remaining polite, she is an embarassment to the rest of the medical profession and military that are doing what is right.


Then again, "you can't fix stupid". I would never want her as my nurse as rules don't seem to apply to her. Just ask her, "she will tell you".

[sunnyatlast]

She Broke no laws.

That is as purposely superficial and hollow as saying "Dzhokar Tzarnaev broke no laws by bringing a pressure cooker to the Boston Marathon".

[JB in TV]

That is as purposely superficial and hollow as saying "Dzhokar Tzarnaev broke no laws by bringing a pressure cooker to the Boston Marathon".

Post of the day!

[billethkid]

That is as purposely superficial and hollow as saying "Dzhokar Tzarnaev broke no laws by bringing a pressure cooker to the Boston Marathon".

Outstandingly FAN-DAMN-TASTIC... response:pepper2::a040::BigApplause:

[TexaninVA]

That is as purposely superficial and hollow as saying "Dzhokar Tzarnaev broke no laws by bringing a pressure cooker to the Boston Marathon".

Bingo

[TexaninVA]

The replies and insightful posts on this board seem to be from two camps .... logic vs emotion, with the more insightful coming from the former.

That dichotomy seems to summarize our society pretty much as well.

Oh, and by the way, (as a previous poster said to the nurse) suck it up and do the quarantine ... just in case you do have it.

[JoelJohnson]

What do you think would be the feelings of the public if everyone with the flu (or even not feeling well) were required to stay home until they were proven that they could not spread the flu?

Yet more people will die of the flu, in the US, this year then will probably die of Ebloa in the next 10 years (in the US).

[sunnyatlast]

What do you think would be the feelings of the public if everyone with the flu (or even not feeling well) were required to stay home until they were proven that they could not spread the flu?

Yet more people will die of the flu, in the US, this year then will probably die of Ebloa in the next 10 years (in the US).

Invalid comparison. "Everyone with" Ebola in the U.S. is in a hospital (we hope none are being hidden after being brought across the borders illegally by terrorists that love to intimidate defenseless citizens with a public blood bath).

And the nurse being required to stay home was in direct contact with ebola patients and their secretions a week ago.

[redwitch]

I honestly don't understand the need for quarantine if there are no symptoms. I understand the fear and paranoia many have of this disease but, from everything I have seen and read, no symptoms, no danger. So, I don't get quarantining. I do, however, firmly believe that anyone exposed should be tested twice a day for the 21-day period. First sign of even a mild cold and a quarantine should be slapped in place, but not before. This would protect everyone.

That being said, had I been this nurse I would have accepted the quarantine if for no other reason than to alleviate the abject fears of others.

[gomoho]

:agree: Well said Red

[Paper1]

The only rule she is breaking is the attempt by that idiot governor in Maine to step in when he knows absolutely nothing about infectious disease. The woman has no symptoms, has tested negative for Ebola, yet somehow this governor thinks he knows more than the medical community. His, and Cris Christie's attempts to interject themselves into this only serves to worsen the situation.

I for one am glad she is speaking out against the idiocy that is our government today.

Working 40 plus years in private sector and paiding Maine income taxes I disagree with your comment that the governor is an idiot. He had to handle a very difficult and politically charged issue and did so well.

[janmcn]

Maine Nurse Kaci Hickox Ordered to Stay Three Feet Away From People - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/maine-nurse-kaci-hickox-ordered-stay-three-feet-away-people-n238326)


A court order issued late Thursday orders Nurse Kaci Hickox to stay three feet away from other people. The order does not order her to stay in her home. She is free to come and go, but she is not allowed to take public transportation or leave the town where she lives.

[billethkid]

for those who continue to espouse the "no symptons" reason to do nothing.....help me understand why that is OK.

There is a 21 day incubation period.
One can show no symptoms any day along the way.
Also one can show symptoms any day along the way.

So why is it OK for someone who has been exposed to infected patients, who has been exposed to infected patient's bodily fluids to move about among the masses?

And if it is OK....why when each of those who have become symptomatic like patient zero, the doctor, a couple of (other) nurses, did the authorities go to great lengths to identify each place and each person the now symptomatic patient has been??? If all is OK they would not or should not be doing that RIGHT?

When the doctor who came back to NYC he was OK...until he became sick. It became a priority to determine every place he went and who contacted....now why if he was OK?

I absolutely do not understand in light of what has happened to date why now because one inconsiderate nurese in Maine is in the spot light has it become OK?

Those advocating a quarantine are trying to protect you....the miltary has just said that.

The rogue nurse in Maine could care less about the masses as she is self promoting.

So explain to me why it is OK for a high risk exposed individual to be among us, while she has the potential to become ill?

[dillywho]

Duncan had no symptoms, either.....until he showed up at the hospital. Wasn't he initially sent home with some meds, and then was transported back by ambulance when he became violently ill?

What is so important in her life that she cannot stay put for 3 weeks?

[sunnyatlast]

Duncan had no symptoms, either.....until he showed up at the hospital. Wasn't he initially sent home with some meds, and then was transported back by ambulance when he became violently ill?

What is so important in her life that she cannot stay put for 3 weeks?

She has an ideology to prove, and she needs camera time to get the biggest screens and stages on which to proclaim it.

[janmcn]

Duncan had no symptoms, either.....until he showed up at the hospital. Wasn't he initially sent home with some meds, and then was transported back by ambulance when he became violently ill?

What is so important in her life that she cannot stay put for 3 weeks?

Why are the doctors and nurses that are treating the doctor in NYC not being quarantined, or are they? How about the medical staff at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta? Have any of them been quarantined? How about Dr Anthony Fauci, who was on all the TV shows last Sunday, just days after treating and caring for Nurse Nina Pham?

[Rags123]

Why are the doctors and nurses that are treating the doctor in NYC not being quarantined, or are they? How about the medical staff at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta? Have any of them been quarantined? How about Dr Anthony Fauci, who was on all the TV shows last Sunday, just days after treating and caring for Nurse Nina Pham?

Were there actually mandatory quarantines at those times ? I would imagine it had a start date of some time. It is a state by state issue and evolving in practice each day much as any of the quarantines throughout our history

[TexaninVA]

for those who continue to espouse the "no symptons" reason to do nothing.....help me understand why that is OK.

There is a 21 day incubation period.
One can show no symptoms any day along the way.
Also one can show symptoms any day along the way.

So why is it OK for someone who has been exposed to infected patients, who has been exposed to infected patient's bodily fluids to move about among the masses?

And if it is OK....why when each of those who have become symptomatic like patient zero, the doctor, a couple of (other) nurses, did the authorities go to great lengths to identify each place and each person the now symptomatic patient has been??? If all is OK they would not or should not be doing that RIGHT?

When the doctor who came back to NYC he was OK...until he became sick. It became a priority to determine every place he went and who contacted....now why if he was OK?

I absolutely do not understand in light of what has happened to date why now because one inconsiderate nurese in Maine is in the spot light has it become OK?

Those advocating a quarantine are trying to protect you....the miltary has just said that.

The rogue nurse in Maine could care less about the masses as she is self promoting.

So explain to me why it is OK for a high risk exposed individual to be among us, while she has the potential to become ill?

Excellent questions ... and there really are no reasonable replies in the logical or real world sense. Some seem to latch onto emotional arguments that in effect say "free the rogue nurse!" or something along those lines.

Actually, if she does roam around, and later infects someone, the solution is to file a civil suit for damages ... ie in big numbers. Would be better for all if that could be avoided. Suck it up, stay indoors for 21 days, and read several good books.

[NotFromAroundHere]

for those who continue to espouse the "no symptons" reason to do nothing.....help me understand why that is OK.

There is a 21 day incubation period.
One can show no symptoms any day along the way.
Also one can show symptoms any day along the way.

So why is it OK for someone who has been exposed to infected patients, who has been exposed to infected patient's bodily fluids to move about among the masses?

Because that someone doesn't have ebola. That person has no symptoms, and has been thoroughly tested for the virus.

And if it is OK....why when each of those who have become symptomatic like patient zero, the doctor, a couple of (other) nurses, did the authorities go to great lengths to identify each place and each person the now symptomatic patient has been??? If all is OK they would not or should not be doing that RIGHT?

Research. Did they quarantine each person the now symptomatic person saw? No. They told them of their risk, and monitored them. None of the monitored people got sick.

When the doctor who came back to NYC he was OK...until he became sick. It became a priority to determine every place he went and who contacted....now why if he was OK?

Asked and answered.

I absolutely do not understand in light of what has happened to date why now because one inconsiderate nurese in Maine is in the spot light has it become OK?

Same question, same answer. She's not sick. She's not contagious. Her temperature is being monitored.

Those advocating a quarantine are trying to protect you....the miltary has just said that.

Those advocating a sane quarantine program are too. And they are trying to balance the not-sick person's rights also.

The rogue nurse in Maine could care less about the masses as she is self promoting.

How do you know that? Or is it your opinion, because she's doing something you don't like?

So explain to me why it is OK for a high risk exposed individual to be among us, while she has the potential to become ill?

How did you determine that she is "high risk"? All of us have the potential to become ill with a communicable disease at any time. Should we all be quarantined even though we aren't sick? She has no symptoms. She has tested negative for ebola. Even if she has the virus in her blood, she isn't contagious until she has symptoms. And not just a fever, she has to be vomiting, etc. to be contagious. So what's the point of a quarantine?

[billethkid]

How did you determine that she is "high risk"? All of us have the potential to become ill with a communicable disease at any time. Should we all be quarantined even though we aren't sick? She has no symptoms. She has tested negative for ebola. Even if she has the virus in her blood, she isn't contagious until she has symptoms. And not just a fever, she has to be vomiting, etc. to be contagious. So what's the point of a quarantine?

there was a listing of breaking down the risk by virtue of types of exposure and the top one on the list was caring for infected patients and exposure to their bodily fluids....I was merely parrting that category.

[NotFromAroundHere]

there was a listing of breaking down the risk by virtue of types of exposure and the top one on the list was caring for infected patients and exposure to their bodily fluids....I was merely parrting that category.

According to what I've read she is categorized as "some risk", having cared for patients while wearing protective gear.

The judge in Maine has now ruled that she needn't be quarantined.

[sunnyatlast]

Her roommate in Africa got ebola. Reports in court don't say whether the current risk of her infecting Kaci are none due to the roommate being dead and buried there, or due to length of time since Kacis exposure to her in their living quarters and in handling their bucket-toilet they'd have had to empty safely, somewhere.

"Sheila Pinette of the Maine CDC has released information that the roommate of Kaci Hickox, while in West Africa has displayed signs of ebola. Pinette says “The respondents roommate in Africa became infected without knowing how she became infected with Ebola. (Any potential risk to respondent from that incident has passed).” This is one of 35 points Pinette made while filing a verified petition for public health order yesterday with the state....."

http://wagmtv.com/state-of-maine-document-reports-kaci-hickoxs-roommate-in-africa-developed-ebola/

[KayakerNC]

Judge rejects attempt to isolate nurse

"Judge Charles C. LaVerdiere ruled that Hickox must continue daily monitoring of her health but said there is no need to isolate her or restrict her movements because she has no symptoms and is therefore not contagious.
The judge also decried the "misconceptions, misinformation, bad science and bad information" circulating about the lethal disease in the U.S."


Judge rejects attempt to isolate nurse - SFGate (http://www.sfgate.com/news/medical/article/Life-goes-on-for-nurse-in-standoff-over-Ebola-5860148.php)

[graciegirl]

How did you determine that she is "high risk"? All of us have the potential to become ill with a communicable disease at any time. Should we all be quarantined even though we aren't sick? She has no symptoms. She has tested negative for ebola. Even if she has the virus in her blood, she isn't contagious until she has symptoms. And not just a fever, she has to be vomiting, etc. to be contagious. So what's the point of a quarantine?

Some diseases are more serious than others. Meningitis, Ebola are two that come to mind. A cousin died of meningitis and that disease strikes fear in high schools and colleges every so often. Polio is another virus that frightened us all for very good reason. I am so in hopes that a vaccine will soon be available for Ebola.

I agree with you, and as time passes she appears to not be a huge risk,as we learn more. I still would not want her close to someone I loved very much.

If we had had a medical person outline the disease three weeks ago, how it spread and the way it is treated as the lead doctor at Emory did when the latest nurse was released, it would have calmed fears a lot.

What bothers me about Hickox "spiel" is that she is all up in arms about health care workers who have cared for Ebola patients being "stigmatized". It is part of the job of any nurse or doctor to take on that burden and to educate and teach with patience and a calm manner and show how we should be extra careful and safe.

I think she needs a serious attitude adjustment.

[NotFromAroundHere]

That is as purposely superficial and hollow as saying "Dzhokar Tzarnaev broke no laws by bringing a pressure cooker to the Boston Marathon".

This an even more ridiculous analogy. The pressure cooker wasn't the problem. The explosives inside were.

The nurse is the pressure cooker. Ebola is the explosive. The authorities have checked the pressure cooker, and it contains no explosives. The authorities are going to continue checking the pressure cooker daily to make sure there are no explosives, until such time as the pressure cooker is no longer prone to explosion.

[blueash]

Several posters on this forum have accused this nurse of being

" this camera hound, 15 minutes of fame, embarassment to the medical profession "

" exploiting the media that is only covering her story because it facilitates their agenda" (I don't think that poster meant Fox news using her story to facilitate its agenda)

"she might not have done well in microbiology class"

"narcissist twenty-something who thinks she can save the world with her vast knowledge and ideology"
"one individual narcissist seeking a speech gig at the 2016 convention"

"she'll teach us pathetic women about our inability to succeed with our pathetic minds and insights"
""you can't fix stupid". I would never want her as my nurse as rules don't seem to apply to her"
"She has an ideology to prove, and she needs camera time to get the biggest screens and stages "


This nurse came home to be a normal citizen. She was essentially arrested and placed into a tent to be held without her consent based on fear, not medical science. She did not seek any attention at all. She did not want her name and face to be fodder for the vitriol of some of you. You have no justification for the accusations of her being stupid or failing her micro class. Your postings suggesting she is a narcissist or publicity hound or has any interest at all in politics are uncalled for. She didn't ask for any of this. She just knows more about Ebola than the politicians who tried to use their powers to restrict her movements. She at no time did anything illegal or anything contrary to protecting public health. She at no time defied any rules. She followed the directives and fought them in court. And she won.

[blueash]

for those who continue to espouse the "no symptons" reason to do nothing.....help me understand why that is OK.

There is a 21 day incubation period.
One can show no symptoms any day along the way.
Also one can show symptoms any day along the way.

So why is it OK for someone who has been exposed to infected patients, who has been exposed to infected patient's bodily fluids to move about among the masses?

And if it is OK....why when each of those who have become symptomatic like patient zero, the doctor, a couple of (other) nurses, did the authorities go to great lengths to identify each place and each person the now symptomatic patient has been??? If all is OK they would not or should not be doing that RIGHT?

When the doctor who came back to NYC he was OK...until he became sick. It became a priority to determine every place he went and who contacted....now why if he was OK?

I absolutely do not understand in light of what has happened to date why now because one inconsiderate nurese in Maine is in the spot light has it become OK?

Those advocating a quarantine are trying to protect you....the miltary has just said that.

The rogue nurse in Maine could care less about the masses as she is self promoting.

So explain to me why it is OK for a high risk exposed individual to be among us, while she has the potential to become ill?

Ok, I will take up your challenge to help you understand. She is considered some risk but you are misunderstanding what that categorization means. She is at risk of contracting the disease. She is NOT at risk of spreading the disease. It is a huge distinction in determination of the need for quarantine.

Ebola is a very dangerous virus. It also is a very difficult illness to catch. The patient is only contagious when symptomatic. They are at very low levels of contagiousness at the onset of symptoms. As they become more ill they become increasingly more contagious. Once dead the body is still extremely contagious. However, and this is important, if you are well you are not a threat to anyone.

Think of the hundreds of people who were exposed to the first Ebola patient. He flew here on a plane, he walked thru the airports, he lived with a family in Texas, he presented already ill to the ER in the early but symptomatic phase of Ebola, he returned to his home and then returned to the ER. Hundreds if not thousands of incidental contacts. Not a single secondary case developed from those exposures. Zero. The two health care providers who became ill were both ICU nurses who provided care during the final most contagious phase of Ebola.

If you wish to begin to understand about Ebola risks I suggest the CDC definitions would be a good place to start. I don't know if you believe the CDC to be authoritative so I'll leave it to you
Epidemiologic Risk Factors to Consider when Evaluating a Person for Exposure to Ebola Virus | Ebola Hemorrhagic Fever | CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/exposure/risk-factors-when-evaluating-person-for-exposure.html)
I will post the content for those who did not wish to click through in the next postl

Please understand in your reading that this classification applies to the risk of a person having Ebola not the risk of spreading Ebola. So when it says some risk, that means there is some risk of this person becoming an Ebola patient not of giving it to others at the time of application of these criteria.

[blueash]

Updated: October 27, 2014

The following epidemiologic risk factors should be considered when evaluating a person for Ebola virus disease (Ebola), classifying contacts, or considering public health actions such as monitoring and movement restrictions based on exposure.
1.High risk includes any of the following: ◦Percutaneous (e.g., needle stick) or mucous membrane exposure to blood or body fluids of a person with Ebola while the person was symptomatic,
◦Exposure to the blood or body fluids (including but not limited to feces, saliva, sweat, urine, vomit, and semen) of a person with Ebola while the person was symptomatic without appropriate personal protective equipment (PPE),
◦Processing blood or body fluids of a person with Ebola while the person was symptomatic without appropriate PPE or standard biosafety precautions,
◦Direct contact with a dead body without appropriate PPE in a country with widespread Ebola virus transmission,
◦Having lived in the immediate household and provided direct care to a person with Ebola while the person was symptomatic

2.Some risk includes any of the following: ◦In countries with widespread Ebola virus transmission: direct contact while using appropriate PPE with a person with Ebola while the person was symptomatic
◦Close contact in households, health care facilities, or community settings with a person with Ebola while the person was symptomatic ◾Close contact is defined as being for a prolonged period of time while not wearing appropriate PPE within approximately 3 feet (1 meter) of a person with Ebola while the person was symptomatic


3.Low (but not zero) risk includes any of the following: ◦Having been in a country with widespread Ebola virus transmission within the past 21 days and having had no known exposures
◦Having brief direct contact (e.g., shaking hands) while not wearing appropriate PPE, with a person with Ebola while the person was in the early stage of disease
◦Brief proximity, such as being in the same room for a brief period of time, with a person with Ebola while the person was symptomatic
◦In countries without widespread Ebola virus transmission: direct contact while using appropriate PPE with a person with Ebola while the person was symptomatic
◦Traveled on an aircraft with a person with Ebola while the person was symptomatic.

4.No identifiable risk includes: ◦Contact with an asymptomatic person who had contact with person with Ebola
◦Contact with a person with Ebola before the person developed symptoms
◦Having been more than 21 days previously in a country with widespread Ebola virus transmission
◦Having been in a country without widespread Ebola virus transmission and not having any other exposures as defined above

[blueash]

Her roommate in Africa got ebola. Reports in court don't say whether the current risk of her infecting Kaci are none due to the roommate being dead and buried there, or due to length of time since Kacis exposure to her in their living quarters and in handling their bucket-toilet they'd have had to empty safely, somewhere.

"Sheila Pinette of the Maine CDC has released information that the roommate of Kaci Hickox, while in West Africa has displayed signs of ebola. Pinette says “The respondents roommate in Africa became infected without knowing how she became infected with Ebola. (Any potential risk to respondent from that incident has passed).” This is one of 35 points Pinette made while filing a verified petition for public health order yesterday with the state....."

State of Maine Document Reports Kaci Hickox’s Roommate in Africa Developed Ebola : WAGM-TV | Northern Maine and Western New Brunswick's News Leader (http://wagmtv.com/state-of-maine-document-reports-kaci-hickoxs-roommate-in-africa-developed-ebola/)

And the point of your posting this is?

It very clearly states that the situation with her roommate presents NO risk to Kaci or to the citizens of the state of Maine. That Kaci's roommate developed signs of Ebola would be germane if it did not say

"Any potential risk to respondent (that's legalese for Kaci) from that incident has passed"

So in fact reports in the court do contain the information you worry they do not. I am depending on your posting for accurately conveying the story and did not verify your information.

[billethkid]

I understand to the leetr of the law...civil, medical or otherwise.....no matter what or where a person has been or the exposure to patients or bodily fluids, in a hazmat suit or not....as long as they do not exhibit symptoms all is OK.

If they do exhibit symptoms and in fact have ebola then they are put in isolation. And like all previous similar situations where she has been and who she has been in contact with becomes a significant concern.....just like in all previous similar situations. And this is the confusing part...eh. If all was OK because a person did not display symptoms, then why the intense need to know where they have been and whom in contact with?

The quarantine is not about whether one exhibits symptons or not. It is an established PRECAUTION and time frame pre-determined that is the cycle when one who has been exposed, may or may not contract the disease. And some like the military have decided to err on the side of being absolutely sure that none of those who are OK today, by the guideline, do not become symptomatic tomorrow.

Until the protesting nurse passes the 21 day established window....OK by the rules so to speak....no symptoms....go about her business....does not mean she WILL NOT become symptomatic tomorrow!!!

In conclusion and then I rest my case:

Some are satisfied one is not sympomatic at the moment. Some of the rest of us are ONLY to be satisfied when we KNOW they will not be symptomatic day 22!!!

[redwitch]

It is not even a question of when one becomes symptomatic but a question of when one is contagious. It has been stated repeatedly that an Ebola patient is contagious at the end stages of the disease, not the beginning. Facts have shown that people can be in close quarters with an Ebola patient in the beginning stages and not be in any jeopardy whatsoever.

As I said previously, forcing her to be tested twice a day is a reasonable precaution. Putting her in quartine makes no sense.

This so reminds me of the panic and prejudices when AIDS first became a problem here. The fear, the rumors, the unreasoning demands of quarantines up to and including a "Gay Ghetto" with full quarantine were being made with no facts to back up such extreme demands. The same emotional, non-medical outcries are causing ridiculous precautions to be enforced today.

[graciegirl]

I still say that no matter what she does and where she goes and what she accomplishes she has a chip on her shoulder. I can't imagine anyone wanting to hire her.

She is selfish and petulant in my view. I don't like her. AT ALL.

AND BLUEASH...not even the CDC had all this info when the first patient affected with the virus entered this country. There was no history of Ebola being treated in the U.S. and treated so successfully until earlier this year and less than ten isn't a lot of people. EVEN the New England Journal of Medicine did a one eighty in just a couple of months.

I searched for some of the things on the net, that I ONLY HEARD from the doctor in charge at Emory.

There was real FEAR for a very serious disease. AND there is nothing shameful about being prudent.

The Hippocratic Oath....First do no harm.

[sunnyatlast]

We keep hearing here that Ebola is so difficult to get unless you're in direct contact with a person actually having the disease, as medical workers and family workers are.

If it is so difficult to get in the general population, I wonder why it is that the CDC classifies Ebola as a Class A Bioterrorism agent:

Bioterrorism Agents/Diseases
By category

Category A

Definition

The U.S. public health system and primary healthcare providers must be prepared to address various biological agents, including pathogens that are rarely seen in the United States. High-priority agents include organisms that pose a risk to national security because they can be easily disseminated or transmitted from person to person;
result in high mortality rates and have the potential for major public health impact; might cause public panic and social disruption; and
require special action for public health preparedness.

Agents/Diseases

Anthrax (Bacillus anthracis)

Botulism (Clostridium botulinum toxin)

Plague (Yersinia pestis)

Smallpox (variola major)

Tularemia (Francisella tularensis)

Viral hemorrhagic fevers (filoviruses [e.g., Ebola, Marburg] and arenaviruses [e.g., Lassa, Machupo])

CDC | Bioterrorism Agents/Diseases (by Category) | Emergency Preparedness & Response (http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/agentlist-category.asp)

Scientific American:

Weaponized Ebola: Is It Really a Bioterror Threat?

Weaponized Ebola: Is It Really a Bioterror Threat? - Scientific American (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/weaponized-ebola-is-it-really-a-bioterror-threat/)

Here’s What Would Happen if Ebola Was Stolen From a Lab

Ebola Biowarfare: Can the Virus be Used as a Bio Terror Agent (http://time.com/3532057/ebola-bioweapon-terrorism/)

[Rags123]

"ISIS is urging supporters in the West to kill civilians by any means possible - including using Ebola as a chemical weapon and stabbing people with poisoned needles, a senior Spanish politician claims.
Francisco Martinez, Spain's state secretary for security, said he is taking the threats seriously after uncovering conversations in which jihadis discuss carrying out so-called 'lone wolf' attacks."


ISIS plotting to kill Western civilians with EBOLA and poisoned needles | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2814595/ISIS-plotting-online-kill-Western-civilians-EBOLA-poisoned-needles-Spanish-security-chief-warns.html)