Property Owners' Association

[vinricci]

Just found this organization's newsletter in my driveway yesterday and had never heard of it. Opinions- Pros and Cons of joining?

[REDCART]

The worthiness of the POA has been discussed, debated, and well established be consensus here on TOTV. Search "POA" and you will see the opinions you're looking for.

George

[Warren Kiefer]

Just found this organization's newsletter in my driveway yesterday and had never heard of it. Opinions- Pros and Cons of joining?

The Property Owners Association is the ONLY unbiased, truthful, and honest owners association we have to representate the Villages residents. The PPOA has taken on many issues that resulted in a favorablly for the residents. I am not absolutely sure, but would guess the VHA has never taken a position that was in opposition to the wishes of the developer, while the POA has fought for us and won many. Compare the bulletins each association leaves in our driveways and I am sure you will agree with my comments.

[graciegirl]

I think we need an organization separate from the VHA which is really an extension of the developers but I am not a fan of the POA.

In my opinion they seem simply anti-developer in too many issues. They have helped on many situations but I am not convinced that the lawsuit that they brought against the developer was warranted. I feel that all of the things they wanted accomplished would have been accomplished and I am pretty sure that a couple of POA members won quite a bit of money personally. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

So many times their newsletter reads like a rant against the developer.

I wish they would hold an election and get someone new in to be the leaders or at least to write the newsletter.

As far as I can remember there have only been two presidents, and I think it is a needed organization but the anti CDD feeling I get isn't making me a fan.

[ROCKETMAN]

Accusing poa leaders of benefiting financially without any basis of proof is very unfair. With all the things they have done and the millions of dollars they have saved village residents, they are the true spokesperson for the village resedents. I am not anti-developer but he has done some things most people scratch their heads over. The hoa is nothing but a developer newsletter.

[graciegirl]

Accusing poa leaders of benefiting financially without any basis of proof is very unfair. With all the things they have done and the millions of dollars they have saved village residents, they are the true spokesperson for the village resedents. I am not anti-developer but he has done some things most people scratch their heads over. The hoa is nothing but a developer newsletter.

Doesn't this say that? Or am I reading incorrectly?

Villages developer to pay $40 million for recreation upgrades to settle a lawsuit - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008-03-09/news/lvillages09_1_villages-fees-lawyer)

[TVMayor]

Each plaintiff got $50,000 and the brother-sister legal team, got $6.7M. $40M over 13 years to cover improvements and repairs to recreation facilities.

[ROCKETMAN]

Doesn't this say that? Or am I reading incorrectly?

Villages developer to pay $40 million for recreation upgrades to settle a lawsuit - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008-03-09/news/lvillages09_1_villages-fees-lawyer)

I guess the judge felt all the time they spent on this was worth something. What about the $40 million that won't come out of our ammenities to repair older facilities. I haven't heard your opinion on that

[graciegirl]

I guess the judge felt all the time they spent on this was worth something. What about the $40 million that won't come out of our ammenities to repair older facilities. I haven't heard your opinion on that

Well I see a lot of stuff being done and being maintained south of 466 and no one needs to hold the Morses feet to the fire.

The Eisenhower center could have had "nice" furniture and "nice" accessories, but instead, look what we got without suing.

When we lived right behind the Odell Center, everything on the grounds was painted once a year and the retaining wall was power washed and the plants were trimmed and the beds were weeded. The CDD south of 466 takes very good care of things. I haven't seen any of their stuff moldy. I like the way things are run where I live.

[wudda1955]

I hate the "us" against "them" mentality of that paper. I used to read it, but now I just throw it away without bothering. I don't have time for that kind of negativity. Besides a lot of what is in there just comes from these boards anyway. I can learn both sides of any issue right here!

[TheVillageChicken]

Each defendant got $50,000 and the brother-sister legal team, got $6.7M. $40M over 13 years to cover improvements and repairs to recreation facilities.

The defendants got nothing but a bill for $40 Mil.

[mickey100]

I guess the judge felt all the time they spent on this was worth something. What about the $40 million that won't come out of our ammenities to repair older facilities. I haven't heard your opinion on that

I agree. Without the lawsuit, there was no money set aside to maintain the aging facilities and infrastructure. The Developer had many opportunities to do the right thing, but it took the lawsuit to make it happen. Anyways, back to the original question about the POA - it is separate from the Developer, dedicated to looking after the best interests of the property owners. It is a good thing - they've done a lot for the community. Here is a link that shows some of their accomplishments: History of the POA (http://www.poa4us.org/history.html)

[TVMayor]

The defendants got nothing but a bill for $40 Mil.

Plaintiffs, that's the word.

[TVMayor]

I hate the "us" against "them" mentality of that paper. I used to read it, but now I just throw it away without bothering. I don't have time for that kind of negativity. Besides a lot of what is in there just comes from these boards anyway. I can learn both sides of any issue right here!
100% of the members and officers of the POA are homeowners in TV. How would you breakdown "us" and "them"?

[TheVillageChicken]

100% of the members and officers of the POA are homeowners in TV. How would you breakdown "us" and "them"?

I assumed that the "us" was POA and the "them" was Developer.

[bimmertl]

Doesn't this say that? Or am I reading incorrectly?

Villages developer to pay $40 million for recreation upgrades to settle a lawsuit - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008-03-09/news/lvillages09_1_villages-fees-lawyer)

You have been beating this dead horse on this site for years and all you have proven is your lack of understanding of the litigation process and your extreme bias towards the developer. And, as usual, any factual statements which, despite being 100% factual, which reflect negatively on the wonderful developer, are considered "negative". Better not read the latest POA and read how Morse feels about pond maintenance costs and who should pay.

This settlement included a confidentiality agreement. Normally that covers the amount of the settlement but that is well known. No doubt during the discovery process things were brought to light that were less than favorable to Morse which prompted him caving in and offering to settle. So none of the parties, including the attorney can discuss anything they may have discovered.

In addition, it's not easy being a named plaintiff against one of the most powerful developers in the state.

The settlements were approved by a judge so any thoughts such as yours regarding some unjust enrichment are simply incorrect.

To put things in the most understandable terms, Morse bought their silence. Doubt many of them even made the minimum wage if you ever added up the hours they spent on this multi million dollar settlement.

[rubicon]

You have been beating this dead horse on this site for years and all you have proven is your lack of understanding of the litigation process and your extreme bias towards the developer. And, as usual, any factual statements which, despite being 100% factual, which reflect negatively on the wonderful developer, are considered "negative". Better not read the latest POA and read how Morse feels about pond maintenance costs and who should pay.

This settlement included a confidentiality agreement. Normally that covers the amount of the settlement but that is well known. No doubt during the discovery process things were brought to light that were less than favorable to Morse which prompted him caving in and offering to settle. So none of the parties, including the attorney can discuss anything they may have discovered.

In addition, it's not easy being a named plaintiff against one of the most powerful developers in the state.

The settlements were approved by a judge so any thoughts such as yours regarding some unjust enrichment are simply incorrect.

To put things in the most understandable terms, Morse bought their silence. Doubt many of them even made the minimum wage if you ever added up the hours they spent on this multi million dollar settlement.

bimmertl: I agree with most of what you said. However this was suppose to be a class action suit and to support that claim the POA and the Developer both made an attempt to alert residents that if they disagreed with the settlement then they could give notice and opt out. the confidentiality agreement is also a mystery to me and I suspect those residents north of 466 might have wanted to know if it could have adversely affect them since this was a class action.

I was told the case was settled some 15 weeks after it was filed but can't support that claim. I guess if one has a copy of the original filing to the county and a copy of the settlement agreement they could determine the life of this lawsuit by checking the corresponding dates .

As to the amounts paid to the plaintiff attorneys and the plaintiffs I have two thoughts. The first is that $6.3 million is indeed a very generous return. I am unaware of the rationale for both the attorney payment and plaintiffs? However my main criticism was that this was the first offer and the plaintiffs jumped at it. Was this the best that could have been realized? Did the plaintiffs really serve the best interests of residents? A March 18th meeting was hastily made following the settlement only because the particulars of the plaintiffs amounts were released by an Orlando paper and not by the POA or Developer which led some residents to question what happened? The attorney who was paid $6.3 million did a really bad job of explaining and in fact never did explain but lamented that two very nice attorneys from the Developer stopped by..........................Can anyone envisage the developer or any attorney in the midst of a litigation as being "nice"?

Perhaps it was a good settlement but there are more questions than answers given. Basic Negotiations 101 tells you not to take the first offer

Having said all of that the fact remains that the POA is the only defense residents have and the only organization protecting their financial interests and to describing them as always complaining ,negative etc is tantamount to political correctness. THEY ARE DOING THEIR JOB FOR YOUR BENEFIT SHOW THEM SOME SUPPORT

[OBXNana]

We read every thread on this site concerning HOA VS POA. We joined both about a month ago. It's very possible we are simply indecisive. We felt for the small amount of the donation to each organization, in our minds, they are polar opposite and our donation helped to keep a check and balance system going.

[wudda1955]

I assumed that the "us" was POA and the "them" was Developer.

That's exactly what I meant. Thank you. Guess I need to learn to be very specific in the future.

[PennBF]

How many know that the members of the POA Board at the time PUT UP THEIR OWN MONEY TO SUPPORT THE CASE AGAINST WHAT WAS GOING ON. THEY PUT THEIR OWN MONEY AT RISK TO HELP PROTECT THE RESIDENTS. HOW MANY OUT THERE RIGHT NOW ARE WILLING TO DO THAT. THEY STOOD A SIGNIFICANT RISK OF LOSING AND THEY WOULD HAVE LOST THEIR MONEY WHILE TRYING TO PROTECT THE RESIDENTS. IN ADDITION THEY HAD LIMITED FUNDS WHILE I THINK IT COULD BE SAID THE DEVELOPER ESSENTIALLY HAD UNLIMITED FUNDS TO FIGHT THE CASE. WHO WON?? THE RESIDENTS AND IT IS A REAL SIN TO HEAR ANYONE CHALLENGE THE POA'S DEDICATION TO DOING WHAT IS RIGHT REGARDLESS WHERE THE BALL LANDS. THEY ARE ONE HECK OF A DEDICATED GROUP AND WE ARE ALL MUCH BETTER OFF BY THEIR BEING HERE FOR US.:eclipsee_gold_cup:

[Bogie Shooter]

How many know that the members of the POA Board at the time PUT UP THEIR OWN MONEY TO SUPPORT THE CASE AGAINST WHAT WAS GOING ON. THEY PUT THEIR OWN MONEY AT RISK TO HELP PROTECT THE RESIDENTS. HOW MANY OUT THERE RIGHT NOW ARE WILLING TO DO THAT. THEY STOOD A SIGNIFICANT RISK OF LOSING AND THEY WOULD HAVE LOST THEIR MONEY WHILE TRYING TO PROTECT THE RESIDENTS. IN ADDITION THEY HAD LIMITED FUNDS WHILE I THINK IT COULD BE SAID THE DEVELOPER ESSENTIALLY HAD UNLIMITED FUNDS TO FIGHT THE CASE. WHO WON?? THE RESIDENTS AND IT IS A REAL SIN TO HEAR ANYONE CHALLENGE THE POA'S DEDICATION TO DOING WHAT IS RIGHT REGARDLESS WHERE THE BALL LANDS. THEY ARE ONE HECK OF A DEDICATED GROUP AND WE ARE ALL MUCH BETTER OFF BY THEIR BEING HERE FOR US.:eclipsee_gold_cup:

Where is this information wrtitten?

[JoMar]

I read it then trash it......it seems that people move here then want to find ways to change stuff in the "name" of helping the residents. Do we really believe that money awarded comes out of someone's pocket other than the commercial business's or the residents. Those that pay the penalty's will find a way to recoup those costs. And to suggest that the POA personnel didn't get paid, then do an "oops" when proof is presented and then somehow justify that they deserved it is what creates the followers without facts mentality and allows the us against them mentality to grow. Neither the POA or the HOA, as I understand it, have standing so the only way to accomplish anything is through the courts and all of us pay for that. I agree with gracigirl....they do a great job here, much better than HOA's with standing in other communities across this country but yet, there is a group that isn't satisfied unless they create controversy. End of rant.

[PennBF]

1. The Board members did support the case for the residents by putting their own money up. 2. The money awarded is going back into the community and into the Paradise Rec. Center which was bady in disarray. 3. Yes the Board members who took the risk did get their investment back which was a decision of the courts. 4. THe court decided the Villages were entitled to the award which was infavor of the residents and to be paid by the Developer 5. The argument that the Residents were potentially responsible for the award they were also who received the benefits of the award, (e.g. Cart paths refurbished, Paradise made whole, etc.etc.). One writer mentioned that the HOA as an organization who supports the activities of the Developer. As I understand it the POA was supported by the Developer before the lawsuit. After the lawsuit (which the POA was held correct by the courts), the Developer no longer supported a POA and was instrumental in forming the HOA.
There is no question the Developer(s) have done a magnificant job in establishing and building The Villages and we all owe them a great vote of gratitude BUT that does not mean the POA is wrong, just that it continues to provide an additional "check and balance" which we should all be thankful for. Those that want to destroy a check and balance would not want the same process and procedures for the Government. :bowdown:

[graciegirl]

1. The Board members did support the case for the residents by putting their own money up. 2. The money awarded is going back into the community and into the Paradise Rec. Center which was bady in disarray. 3. Yes the Board members who took the risk did get their investment back which was a decision of the courts. 4. THe court decided the Villages were entitled to the award which was infavor of the residents and to be paid by the Developer 5. The argument that the Residents were potentially responsible for the award they were also who received the benefits of the award, (e.g. Cart paths refurbished, Paradise made whole, etc.etc.). One writer mentioned that the HOA as an organization who supports the activities of the Developer. As I understand it the POA was supported by the Developer before the lawsuit. After the lawsuit (which the POA was held correct by the courts), the Developer no longer supported a POA and was instrumental in forming the HOA.
There is no question the Developer(s) have done a magnificant job in establishing and building The Villages and we all owe them a great vote of gratitude BUT that does not mean the POA is wrong, just that it continues to provide an additional "check and balance" which we should all be thankful for. Those that want to destroy a check and balance would not want the same process and procedures for the Government. :bowdown:


I don't like the negativity. It isn't a watch dog to me. It is a mad dog.

[Indydealmaker]

Doesn't this say that? Or am I reading incorrectly?

Villages developer to pay $40 million for recreation upgrades to settle a lawsuit - Orlando Sentinel (http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2008-03-09/news/lvillages09_1_villages-fees-lawyer)

Gee...that's the way I read it.

[PennBF]

Unfortunately there are some that have a blinded devotion to the Developer and in a few cases it goes beyond reasonable logic.Of course it is their right to have this opinion but it does not give the right to call others names. The same people they ae defaming are the ones who are working so hard to protect their quality of life. We are so lucky to have a POA that remains detached from being aligned to any person or organization and honest and courages in their pursuit of the truth. If you attend one of their monthly meeting you will see anywhere from 300-500 residents in attendance and they all can't be wrong? :eclipsee_gold_cup:

[graciegirl]

I think it's blind devotion, not blinded.

.

[Indydealmaker]

1. The Board members did support the case for the residents by putting their own money up. 2. The money awarded is going back into the community and into the Paradise Rec. Center which was bady in disarray. 3. Yes the Board members who took the risk did get their investment back which was a decision of the courts. 4. THe court decided the Villages were entitled to the award which was infavor of the residents and to be paid by the Developer 5. The argument that the Residents were potentially responsible for the award they were also who received the benefits of the award, (e.g. Cart paths refurbished, Paradise made whole, etc.etc.). One writer mentioned that the HOA as an organization who supports the activities of the Developer. As I understand it the POA was supported by the Developer before the lawsuit. After the lawsuit (which the POA was held correct by the courts), the Developer no longer supported a POA and was instrumental in forming the HOA.
There is no question the Developer(s) have done a magnificant job in establishing and building The Villages and we all owe them a great vote of gratitude BUT that does not mean the POA is wrong, just that it continues to provide an additional "check and balance" which we should all be thankful for. Those that want to destroy a check and balance would not want the same process and procedures for the Government. :bowdown:

The way I understand it, the plaintiffs did not fund the suit at all. As the named plaintiffs for the class, they received an award. The attorneys were paid directly by the defendant.

[rubicon]

We read every thread on this site concerning HOA VS POA. We joined both about a month ago. It's very possible we are simply indecisive. We felt for the small amount of the donation to each organization, in our minds, they are polar opposite and our donation helped to keep a check and balance system going.

OBXNana: The HOA is funded by the Developer for the Developer So how can it be called a homeowner association? They may be polar opposites but they are not polar opposite homeowner associations. So if there is a concern stemming from the developer side how do you suppose and whom do you suppose will speak up for the residents? In fact if the HOA ever did oppose the developer he pull funding. Also check and see where HOA presidents go after they served in the VHA. They all have key/strategic spots that have a direct affect on the developer's business.

You may want to look a little closer

I opine others can decide

[REDCART]

Just found this organization's newsletter in my driveway yesterday and had never heard of it. Opinions- Pros and Cons of joining?

Vinricci, your original question ignited a fire-storm on TOTV. The POA has always been a hot topic here, but I believe you will agree from just theses few comments that many, if not most are grateful to both the developer and the POA for their efforts. The developer was a genius, somewhat like Steve Jobs. Did he always make the right decision? No.

[Jdmiata]

OBXNana: The HOA is funded by the Developer for the Developer So how can it be called a homeowner association? They may be polar opposites but they are not polar opposite homeowner associations. So if there is a concern stemming from the developer side how do you suppose and whom do you suppose will speak up for the residents? In fact if the HOA ever did oppose the developer he pull funding. Also check and see where HOA presidents go after they served in the VHA. They all have key/strategic spots that have a direct affect on the developer's business.

You may want to look a little closer

I opine others can decide

Very well said , rubicon. The HOA is not a homeowner association.

[Sandtrap328]

How many know that the members of the POA Board at the time PUT UP THEIR OWN MONEY TO SUPPORT THE CASE AGAINST WHAT WAS GOING ON. THEY PUT THEIR OWN MONEY AT RISK TO HELP PROTECT THE RESIDENTS. HOW MANY OUT THERE RIGHT NOW ARE WILLING TO DO THAT. THEY STOOD A SIGNIFICANT RISK OF LOSING AND THEY WOULD HAVE LOST THEIR MONEY WHILE TRYING TO PROTECT THE RESIDENTS. IN ADDITION THEY HAD LIMITED FUNDS WHILE I THINK IT COULD BE SAID THE DEVELOPER ESSENTIALLY HAD UNLIMITED FUNDS TO FIGHT THE CASE. WHO WON?? THE RESIDENTS AND IT IS A REAL SIN TO HEAR ANYONE CHALLENGE THE POA'S DEDICATION TO DOING WHAT IS RIGHT REGARDLESS WHERE THE BALL LANDS. THEY ARE ONE HECK OF A DEDICATED GROUP AND WE ARE ALL MUCH BETTER OFF BY THEIR BEING HERE FOR US.:eclipsee_gold_cup:

Did they get all their money back - and then some?

[Halibut]

... the fact remains that the POA is the only defense residents have and the only organization protecting their financial interests and to describing them as always complaining, negative etc is tantamount to political correctness.

I don't know what newsletter others are reading, but I've seen plenty of commendation and thanks given when the POA feels that Morse has done something commendable. I'm sure their Board members have varying opinions and biases on any number of topics, just like TOTV readers, but I feel they sincerely try to present all facets of a story.

Is the POA's ongoing research to find and publish stats on golf cart ejections what some people consider to be complaining? If so, what you call negative, I call reporting. It's the same danged thing with the other online news site -- "Why so much crime?" -- while ignoring the fact that 95% of articles simply relate the daily goings-on at TV and having nothing to do with law-breaking. Perceptions here can be very skewed, IMO.

[OBXNana]

OBXNana: The HOA is funded by the Developer for the Developer So how can it be called a homeowner association? They may be polar opposites but they are not polar opposite homeowner associations. So if there is a concern stemming from the developer side how do you suppose and whom do you suppose will speak up for the residents? In fact if the HOA ever did oppose the developer he pull funding. Also check and see where HOA presidents go after they served in the VHA. They all have key/strategic spots that have a direct affect on the developer's business.

You may want to look a little closer

I opine others can decide

Rubicon, we have owned property in different communities in different states. There are rules, bylaws, and written information that we read, digest, and understand. The Villages for us has been somewhat confusing, and I admit, we are learning as we go.

Thank you for your suggestion to look closer and to do it in a way that you didn't attack me. This is how we continue to educate ourselves and become involved citizens when we are fortunate enough to call The Villages home.

At this point, I don't know if we will agree or disagree with your statement, but we certainly will further explore. Thank you!

[mickey100]

Unfortunately there are some that have a blind devotion to the Developer and in a few cases it goes beyond reasonable logic.Of course it is their right to have this opinion but it does not give the right to call others names. The same people they ae defaming are the ones who are working so hard to protect their quality of life. We are so lucky to have a POA that remains detached from being aligned to any person or organization and is honest and courageous in their pursuit of the truth. If you attend one of their monthly meeting you will see anywhere from 300-500 residents in attendance and they all can't be wrong? :eclipsee_gold_cup:

Well said. The POA has done many things for the Villages residents. We are very fortunate to have them look after our interests.

[PennBF]

To clarify. The Plaintiff's (e.g. POA Board Members) did provide the upfront money to fund the Attorney's to bring and try the case. It was their "personal"
funding that acted as the basis for the Plaintiff's action.
(Other clarification: Blind or blinded the key is the thought was clear.):bowdown:

[PennBF]

To clarify. The Plaintiff's (e.g. POA Board Members) did provide the upfront money to fund the Attorney's to bring and try the case. It was their "personal" funding that acted as the basis for the Plaintiff's action.
(Other clarification: Blind or blinded the key is the thought was clear.):bowdown:[/QUOTE]

[mickey100]

To clarify. The Plaintiff's (e.g. POA Board Members) did provide the upfront money to fund the Attorney's to bring and try the case. It was their "personal" funding that acted as the basis for the Plaintiff's action.
(Other clarification: Blind or blinded the key is the thought was clear.):bowdown:

I didn't realize they had injected their own personal funds to get things going, something all of us Villagers benefitted from. Very commendable, IMHO.

[graciegirl]

When has anyone EVER seen anything that was not maintained or the developers not fulfilling any contract?.

If you read back on some posts from the same poster, it is constantly anti-developer.

That poster even called me a "shill" for the developer.

I just like the way things are run here. This is the best run place I have ever lived and I am so glad I chose to live here.

I truly believe that we need an organization to watch out for the residents, but I think it is time the POA got some new leadership. That is my opinion. You can protect the needs of the residents without what I consider a constant negative tone to the builders.

Halibut says the POA gives compliments to the developer but I can't remember any. But I do respect Halibut and she must be right.

I hope I will read something positive in the POA newsletter about Gary Morse's life.

[vinricci]

Didn't mean to poke a hornet's nest. I'm new here and with all the organizations and businesses trying to sell new homeowners something, I wanted to find out if POA was reputable. In the future I'll do a search of TOTV first before posting. Thank all of you for your comments.

[Sandtrap328]

To clarify. The Plaintiff's (e.g. POA Board Members) did provide the upfront money to fund the Attorney's to bring and try the case. It was their "personal" funding that acted as the basis for the Plaintiff's action.
(Other clarification: Blind or blinded the key is the thought was clear.):bowdown:[/QUOTE]

I did not see a reply saying if the POA board members got their upfront money back. Did they? How much more did the get back than what was put in? Can you give the actual dollar amounts?

[redwitch]

I did not see a reply saying if the POA board members got their upfront money back. Did they? How much more did the get back than what was put in? Can you give the actual dollar amounts?[/QUOTE]

If typical of most class action suits, the $50,000 would have been their "profit". Any costs, etc. would have come out of the attorneys' fees and costs and any monies paid by plaintiffs would have been reimbursed from these costs and fees. Considering the amount of time taken to find an attorney to take on the Morses, the pre-filing fees for investigation, etc., I'd say $50K is probably a lot less than they deserve.

[CFrance]

When has anyone EVER seen anything that was not maintained or the developers not fulfilling any contract?.

If you read back on some posts from the same poster, it is constantly anti-developer.

That poster even called me a "shill" for the developer.

I just like the way things are run here. This is the best run place I have ever lived and I am so glad I chose to live here.

I truly believe that we need an organization to watch out for the residents, but I think it is time the POA got some new leadership. That is my opinion. You can protect the needs of the residents without what I consider a constant negative tone to the builders.

Halibut says the POA gives compliments to the developer but I can't remember any. But I do respect Halibut and she must be right.

I hope I will read something positive in the POA newsletter about Gary Morse's life.
Gracie, I agree with Halibut. I have seen positive comments given toward the developer in the POA. They are not going to let anything be swept under the rug around here, so yes, they are a strong voice. But they do give credit where it's due.

And I don't believe that they are just trying to "stir up trouble." I applaud their current effort to find some legal way to establish a sinkhole fund to cover those who have bought pre-owned homes and cannot get such coverage. I am in their corner over the roof shingle problem efforts. They've provided a great public service over golf-cart safety awareness. Among other things.

I believe the comments they have made against the developer that have no basis in fact are few and far between. No, they're not perfect, and some of their comments could be toned down. But some of the VHA's comments are sickening sweet, over-the-top, head-in-the-sand to me about TV as well. I am glad for VHA's organization and support them, but I am even more glad for POA because I believe we individual owners need such an organization.

[rp001]

The POA is absolutely needed here. Without them we would be at the developer or his minion's mercy even more than we are now. The question was asked when hasn't the developer worked in the best interests of the residents, well let's see. Other than the one settled lawsuit and the pending one I can think of at least two issues, one being settled and that is the AC coolant line issue. The next one will probably be the shingle issue where obvious defective material has been used, and the manufacturer refusing now to do the right thing, and the developer continuing to use the products of their cronies, when in fact their buying power could be used to our advantage. There is another little item out there that I just heard of and that is the developer refusing to allow VA loans. Just a few that come to mind but there are some that believe the developer can do no wrong!

[Warren Kiefer]

[QUOTE=graciegirl;961694]I think we need an organization separate from the VHA which is really an extension of the developers but I am not a fan of the POA.

In my opinion they seem simply anti-developer in too many issues. They have helped on many situations but I am not convinced that the lawsuit that they brought against the developer was warranted. I feel that all of the things they wanted accomplished would have been accomplished and I am pretty sure that a couple of POA members won quite a bit of money personally. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

So many times their newsletter reads like a rant against the developer.

I wish they would hold an election and get someone new in to be the leaders or at least to write the newsletter.

I cannot understand why you consider the lawsuits unwarranted. It was determined thru the courts that the Developer had erred. I suppose you are saying the courts got it wrong?? What about the roofing shingle problems, the pond liner on the developer's private property that residents paid for, the failing air conditioner lines or the at night gate erection on the orginal side. All one has to do is compare the activities of the two organizations.

[Chatbrat]

Will the POA every be the controlling entity of the Villages? I vowed to never live again in a community controlled by amateurs.

[Warren Kiefer]

I guess the judge felt all the time they spent on this was worth something. What about the $40 million that won't come out of our ammenities to repair older facilities. I haven't heard your opinion on that

I assure you, we would certainly not have that beautiful park on the orginal side, or a rec building for the TDS region, the beautiful improvbements to the South Side Pool or a rec building for Santo Domingo neighborhood. The HOA cannot take dredit for a single iota of those improvrements. They are being done and the POA gets 100% of the credit.

[Warren Kiefer]

Well I see a lot of stuff being done and being maintained south of 466 and no one needs to hold the Morses feet to the fire.

The Eisenhower center could have had "nice" furniture and "nice" accessories, but instead, look what we got without suing.

When we lived right behind the Odell Center, everything on the grounds was painted once a year and the retaining wall was power washed and the plants were trimmed and the beds were weeded. The CDD south of 466 takes very good care of things. I haven't seen any of their stuff moldy. I like the way things are run where I live.


The bottom line is that the Developer sells the Rec Centers to the residents. The greater the value the more we pay for the facility. The rec centers are little more than a way for the developer to build and sell.

[Warren Kiefer]

Where is this information wrtitten?

I read it then trash it......it seems that people move here then want to find ways to change stuff in the "name" of helping the residents. Do we really believe that money awarded comes out of someone's pocket other than the commercial business's or the residents. Those that pay the penalty's will find a way to recoup those costs. And to suggest that the POA personnel didn't get paid, then do an "oops" when proof is presented and then somehow justify that they deserved it is what creates the followers without facts mentality and allows the us against them mentality to grow. Neither the POA or the HOA, as I understand it, have standing so the only way to accomplish anything is through the courts and all of us pay for that. I agree with gracigirl....they do a great job here, much better than HOA's with standing in other communities across this country but yet, there is a group that isn't satisfied unless they create controversy. End of rant.

I suggest you contact the POA and request information on all the issues they have taken on in the interest of we Villagers. You will be surprised. Or attend a POA meeting where every meeting is standing room only. Have you looked around and seen the improvements the 40 million have made possible ??? I personally know that not you, but the POA plaintiff's had their personal money on the line to file the lawsuit.

[Warren Kiefer]

OBXNana: The HOA is funded by the Developer for the Developer So how can it be called a homeowner association? They may be polar opposites but they are not polar opposite homeowner associations. So if there is a concern stemming from the developer side how do you suppose and whom do you suppose will speak up for the residents? In fact if the HOA ever did oppose the developer he pull funding. Also check and see where HOA presidents go after they served in the VHA. They all have key/strategic spots that have a direct affect on the developer's business.

You may want to look a little closer

I opine others can decide

Nearly every former HOA president either directly ot indirectly get a token job from the Developer.

[Chi-Town]

Will the POA every be the controlling entity of the Villages? I vowed to never live again in a community controlled by amateurs.
Unfortunately, a lot of developments are run by amateurs after buildout. The POA would not be the controlling entity but an even more needed check and balances organization.

[rubicon]

[[QUOTE=graciegirl;961694]I think we need an organization separate from the VHA which is really an extension of the developers but I am not a fan of the POA.

In my opinion they seem simply anti-developer in too many issues. They have helped on many situations but I am not convinced that the lawsuit that they brought against the developer was warranted. I feel that all of the things they wanted accomplished would have been accomplished and I am pretty sure that a couple of POA members won quite a bit of money personally. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

So many times their newsletter reads like a rant against the developer.

I wish they would hold an election and get someone new in to be the leaders or at least to write the newsletter.

I cannot understand why you consider the lawsuits unwarranted. It was determined thru the courts that the Developer had erred. I suppose you are saying the courts got it wrong?? What about the roofing shingle problems, the pond liner on the developer's private property that residents paid for, the failing air conditioner lines or the at night gate erection on the orginal side. All one has to do is compare the activities of the two organizations.

[/B

Warren: Perhaps a closer look would reveal that the POA is not anti-Developer ( Villages Lake-Sumter, Inc. VLSI) [B]but pro- resident.

The POA is the only organization in The Villages that does not kow tow up to the Developer. Their activities are not personal but business and its the business of village residents. Look back at all their efforts and you will see that they are fighting to protect residents financial interests.

We have some folks here who are blinded by the light and seem to view the VLSI as a god. We then have some residents who seem to believe that the POA's only goal is to complain about the VLSI. Do people really believe these folks who like us retired to enjoy the remainder of their lives in quiet pursuits go looking for fights. The issues should speak for themselves but people either don't understand or don't care.

VLSI is well insulated because they control all aspects and most powers here. When did the VHA go against VLSI? When did the District go against VLSI? Why do you believe VLSI pushed heavily in a campaign a few years back to retain Sumter One? And why did it do so? When did you get to vote on an issue in The Villages? You didn't because you are not a supervisor on the Board or a property owner as defined here to qualify to vote.

I questioned the POA's actions at jumping at the first offer in the amenities lawsuit. However don't lose sight that the all mighty VLSI caved in and made the offer. The VLSI would not give up forty cents let alone $40 million unless it knew it was dead wrong.

Please be fair and balanced and more objective here

[Wandatime]

I appreciate the link to the "History of the POA" and read it with curious interest; I also looked over their website. Then I cruised over to the Villages Homeowner's Association webpage and spent some time reviewing their website. Obviously they are very different organizations, yet both serve a useful purpose.

The POA newsletter does read a little negative, but then again, it is very hard to be critical and not come off as negative. How do you do that? "Hey, LOVE the way you mishandled the XYZ issue, GREAT job screwing that up! If we need another mess like that, we are definitely calling YOU! You are the MAN!"

I did see several "credits" given to the developer in the latest newsletter.

I am not sure I will get involved with either organization. Perhaps I am more apathetic than I care to admit. Well informed, but apathetic.

[PennBF]

Regarding the question as to whether or not the Board Members who put their peronsal funds at risk in support of the lawsuit which resulted in a $40M decision in favor of The Villages residents. Yes, those who risked their own money were repaid by a decision of the Court. I believe each received somewhere in the area of $50K which covered their personal risk funds and interest.
Regarding the desire that the POA just go away and there is unrelented praise for the Developer. I am sure the Developer would love this and have wished for it more than one time. The real question is why would anyone want to throw out the one auditor of the TOTV Government. As we all know power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Any excessive enthusiasm or unreasoning zeal to throw out the one organization that examines Government power should be questioned as that does not appear to be unbais behavior. There is a universal question on behaviors and that is "what is the payback?"??:shrug:

[Halibut]

Will the POA every be the controlling entity of the Villages? I vowed to never live again in a community controlled by amateurs.

The fear of the VLSI withdrawing is a concern for many residents -- the "what happens to use after build out?" questions.

I'm not real familiar with Sun City or other large retirement communities, but I suspect Del Webb didn't stick around and run the place after he built it. The VLSI continues to wield an enormous amount of power here, which in many ways benefit the residents greatly, but which also means we live at their whim in some respects. My primary concern is their secrecy, cronyism, and what seems to be a "my way or the highway" attitude. I appreciate that the POA tries to draw back the curtain to see what the wizard is really up to. I may very well agree with what he's up to, but I do want to know.

[Madelaine Amee]

You have been beating this dead horse on this site for years and all you have proven is your lack of understanding of the litigation process and your extreme bias towards the developer. And, as usual, any factual statements which, despite being 100% factual, which reflect negatively on the wonderful developer, are considered "negative". Better not read the latest POA and read how Morse feels about pond maintenance costs and who should pay.

This settlement included a confidentiality agreement. Normally that covers the amount of the settlement but that is well known. No doubt during the discovery process things were brought to light that were less than favorable to Morse which prompted him caving in and offering to settle. So none of the parties, including the attorney can discuss anything they may have discovered.

In addition, it's not easy being a named plaintiff against one of the most powerful developers in the state.

The settlements were approved by a judge so any thoughts such as yours regarding some unjust enrichment are simply incorrect.

To put things in the most understandable terms, Morse bought their silence. Doubt many of them even made the minimum wage if you ever added up the hours they spent on this multi million dollar settlement.

Thank you for bringing this sentence to my attention. I had "read" through the paper and missed that little bomb completely. So as a resident of CCD3 I will be liable for restoration to two ponds on two golf courses. Two of our representatives voted against signing the agreement to make the residents pay for their maintenance, while three of our representatives left us hanging out to dry. Very interesting and completely overlooked by many of us! Thanks for the heads up ................ See page 6 of the POA November Bulletin.

[Indydealmaker]

Will the POA every be the controlling entity of the Villages? I vowed to never live again in a community controlled by amateurs.

The Villages is a quasi-governmental CDD community. I see nothing in the statutes that allows for any association to provide governance for a CDD. Each CDD has a governing board.

The Villages Home Owners Association is not a governing body any more than the POA is and can never be. So do not worry there.

HOWEVER, you do need to worry that the individuals on each CDD board can get out control just like Condo Boards and HOA Boards. I think the saving grace is that a CDD is very limited in its ability to enforce anything that is not included in a recorded deed restriction.

It would be fun and educational to create a workshop to try to predict what this place will be like after the developer is gone; maybe create a handbook of "forbidden" practices by the CDD boards to get out in front of the craziness we see everyday in HOA and COA board decisions.

[Chatbrat]

To see what can happen when a corrupt & inept POA/HOA runs a community, look up Fairfield Harbour NC--neighbors @ each others throats---downright ugly--and property values in the toilet.---you can't give property away there!!!

[Indydealmaker]

Thank you for bringing this sentence to my attention. I had "read" through the paper and missed that little bomb completely. So as a resident of CCD3 I will be liable for restoration to two ponds on two golf courses. Two of our representatives voted against signing the agreement to make the residents pay for their maintenance, while three of our representatives left us hanging out to dry. Very interesting and completely overlooked by many of us! Thanks for the heads up ................ See page 6 of the POA November Bulletin.

To further clarify, the way I read it, Morse did previously agree to the responsibility to maintain the ponds.

[Chi-Town]

Checked out Sun City Center near Tampa in 2008. What a waste of time. After Del Webb left there was no rhyme or reason as far as management went.

[ureout]

Gracie, you always pick on the POA for being anti-developer....well you are definitely very PRO-developer....someone has to stick up for the consumer, there have been many issues over the years where the POA has helped individuals from the class action lawsuit, drainage problems and the roof fiasco....the developer has done a very good job in the making of The Villages and in doing so they have been very well compensated for it, but they have made mistakes along the way...thankfully we have an organization that will step up and question them, we certainly know that the VHA will not

[rubicon]

I appreciate the link to the "History of the POA" and read it with curious interest; I also looked over their website. Then I cruised over to the Villages Homeowner's Association webpage and spent some time reviewing their website. Obviously they are very different organizations, yet both serve a useful purpose.

The POA newsletter does read a little negative, but then again, it is very hard to be critical and not come off as negative. How do you do that? "Hey, LOVE the way you mishandled the XYZ issue, GREAT job screwing that up! If we need another mess like that, we are definitely calling YOU! You are the MAN!"

I did see several "credits" given to the developer in the latest newsletter.

I am not sure I will get involved with either organization. Perhaps I am more apathetic than I care to admit. Well informed, but apathetic.

wandatime : you are a sage

[graciegirl]

Gracie, you always pick on the POA for being anti-developer....well you are definitely very PRO-developer....someone has to stick up for the consumer, there have been many issues over the years where the POA has helped individuals from the class action lawsuit,* drainage problems and the roof fiasco....the developer has done a very good job in the making of The Villages and in doing so they have been very well compensated for it, but they have made mistakes along the way...thankfully we have an organization that will step up and question them, we certainly know that the VHA will not


You are right of course. I just wonder if the present officers have term limits.

It isn't what you say sometimes, it is HOW you say it.

Wandatime, obviously it can't be all huggy, laughy nicey,if you are a watchdog organization but I have been reading the POA bulletin for almost eight years. For awhile a couple of years ago it was written in a journalistic style that conveyed information without acrid comments and allowed the reader to judge.

If all y'all are satisfied, just continue on. I am not a fan. And like Wanda, I am not an activist.

I am not involved the VHA either. But they sound more ....plausible. We personally have not had an issue that warranty hasn't settled or know anyone who needed someone to intervene in a problem with home ownership. I would like the POA to get the exercise classes out of the neighborhood pools. There see? I need them.

It seems to me that the POA helps the residents north of 466 the most, since the lawsuit changed the structure of decision making.

* I don't go along with the lawsuit doing anything that wouldn't have been done without it. I am entitled to my opinion and reserve the right to change my mind.

[ureout]

Gracie, you do certainly have a right to your opinion...one reason that there is a difference between governing south of 466 is because the developer still owns everything....they have not been able to sell back the rec centers or softball fields back to the residents....that is because of the IRS bond issue against them....once that is resolved i think you will see a change on how things are run....I for one think the ACC was the best thing that could happen for the residents on the north side...at least now we have a voice on how are amenities are spent

[graciegirl]

Gracie, you do certainly have a right to your opinion...one reason that there is a difference between governing south of 466 is because the developer still owns everything....they have not been able to sell back the rec centers or softball fields back to the residents....that is because of the IRS bond issue against them....once that is resolved i think you will see a change on how things are run....I for one think the ACC was the best thing that could happen for the residents on the north side...at least now we have a voice on how are amenities are spent

I think you are incorrect to blame the IRS issue. It is NOT related. The IRS is questioning whether a CDD can issue tax exempt bonds like other municipalities. It has absolutely nothing to do with HOW this place is run.

I consider myself lucky to live south of 466. Hope it stays the same for a LONG time. MY idea of a nightmare is having the residents run this place.

[Wandatime]

You are right of course. I just wonder if the present officers have term limits.

It isn't what you say sometimes, it is HOW you say it.

Wandatime, obviously it can't be all huggy, laughy nicey,if you are a watchdog organization but I have been reading the POA bulletin for almost eight years. For awhile a couple of years ago it was written in a journalistic style that conveyed information without acrid comments and allowed the reader to judge.

If all y'all are satisfied, just continue on. I am not a fan. And like Wanda, I am not an activist.

I am not involved the VHA either. But they sound more ....plausible. We personally have not had an issue that warranty hasn't settled or know anyone who needed someone to intervene in a problem with home ownership. I would like the POA to get the exercise classes out of the neighborhood pools. There see? I need them.

It seems to me that the POA helps the residents north of 466 the most, since the lawsuit changed the structure of decision making.

* I don't go along with the lawsuit doing anything that wouldn't have been done without it. I am entitled to my opinion and reserve the right to change my mind.


You are right -- there are methods to convey critical information in a way that let the reader make their own decisions. I was being a smart-a$$. :o

If the POA bulletin has gone over the top in recent years it is likely the writers have been influenced by the polarizing (they may say galvanizing) effects of sensationalistic journalism. It is a turnoff for me; it feels manipulative.

[Laurie2]

Gracie, I agree with Halibut. I have seen positive comments given toward the developer in the POA. They are not going to let anything be swept under the rug around here, so yes, they are a strong voice. But they do give credit where it's due.

And I don't believe that they are just trying to "stir up trouble." I applaud their current effort to find some legal way to establish a sinkhole fund to cover those who have bought pre-owned homes and cannot get such coverage. I am in their corner over the roof shingle problem efforts. They've provided a great public service over golf-cart safety awareness. Among other things.

I believe the comments they have made against the developer that have no basis in fact are few and far between. No, they're not perfect, and some of their comments could be toned down. But some of the VHA's comments are sickening sweet, over-the-top, head-in-the-sand to me about TV as well. I am glad for VHA's organization and support them, but I am even more glad for POA because I believe we individual owners need such an organization.


Thank you, CFrance, I think you summed it up nicely.



I appreciate the link to the "History of the POA" and read it with curious interest; I also looked over their website. Then I cruised over to the Villages Homeowner's Association webpage and spent some time reviewing their website. Obviously they are very different organizations, yet both serve a useful purpose.

The POA newsletter does read a little negative, but then again, it is very hard to be critical and not come off as negative. How do you do that? "Hey, LOVE the way you mishandled the XYZ issue, GREAT job screwing that up! If we need another mess like that, we are definitely calling YOU! You are the MAN!"

I did see several "credits" given to the developer in the latest newsletter.

I am not sure I will get involved with either organization. Perhaps I am more apathetic than I care to admit. Well informed, but apathetic.


Hi Wandatime, I really like your post.

Maybe think about taking a little step out of apathy and doing what I do. . .

Even though I have not yet gone to any POA meetings, and I might never go to a meeting, I do pay the 10 dollars annual dues.

Like CFrance and others have said, I am glad they are here. All those new roofs speak volumes.

The form with the address for mailing the 10 dollars (per household) can be found at poa4us.org -- You don't have to go to a meeting to sign up. Paying dues at least makes me feel better about just holding their coats while they go fight -- for me.

Even though the developer does most things very well, sometimes the homeowners here have needed an advocate. That is the purpose of the POA.

[mickey100]

Thank you, CFrance, I think you summed it up nicely.






….
Like CFrance and others have said, I am glad they are here. All those new roofs speak volumes.

The form with the address for mailing the 10 dollars (per household) can be found at poa4us.org -- You don't have to go to a meeting to sign up. Paying dues at least makes me feel better about just holding their coats while they go fight -- for me.

Even though the developer does most things very well, sometimes the homeowners here have needed an advocate. That is the purpose of the POA.

I agree. They really do fight for us. I've not yet gone to a meeting, but we've been a member for a few years now.

[Mikeod]

I think you are incorrect to blame the IRS issue. It is NOT related. The IRS is questioning whether a CDD can issue tax exempt bonds like other municipalities. It has absolutely nothing to do with HOW this place is run.

I consider myself lucky to live south of 466. Hope it stays the same for a LONG time. MY idea of a nightmare is having the residents run this place.

Gracie, I'm afraid you are wrong on this. The IRS matter has everything to do with the transfer of amenities south of 466. The interest rate on the bonds issued to purchase the facilities will depend on whether they can be issued as tax-free or not. The developer gets more the lower the interest rate, therefore it is an advantage if they are tax-free (lower interest rate). That is why the delay.

If I understand the structure of TV correctly, there is no way the residents can be in charge of the overall place. The vast majority of the power resides in the central districts (VCCDD and SLCDD) and only landowners in those districts can vote. The residents on the residential CDDs can only vote within their district and those boards do not get amenity funds directly.

[Spikearoni]

CFrance mentioned that buyers of pre-owned homes encounter some degree of difficulty when attempting to purchase sinkhole insurance. The implication is that new homeowners do not have any such problems. Is that in fact, the case. If so why is there a difference?

[graciegirl]

Gracie, I'm afraid you are wrong on this. The IRS matter has everything to do with the transfer of amenities south of 466. The interest rate on the bonds issued to purchase the facilities will depend on whether they can be issued as tax-free or not. The developer gets more the lower the interest rate, therefore it is an advantage if they are tax-free (lower interest rate). That is why the delay.

If I understand the structure of TV correctly, there is no way the residents can be in charge of the overall place. The vast majority of the power resides in the central districts (VCCDD and SLCDD) and only landowners in those districts can vote. The residents on the residential CDDs can only vote within their district and those boards do not get amenity funds directly.

I think...I was trying to say that the IRS issue would not make changes in the residents being in charge of the overall place.

[PaPaLarry]

Maybe it would be nice if both organizations merged together, for the sake of ALL Villagers?

[graciegirl]

You are right -- there are methods to convey critical information in a way that let the reader make their own decisions. I was being a smart-a$$. :o

If the POA bulletin has gone over the top in recent years it is likely the writers have been influenced by the polarizing (they may say galvanizing) effects of sensationalistic journalism. It is a turnoff for me; it feels manipulative.

I think that is what it is for me. The journalistic style of the bulletin is what really makes me not like the POA. It seems to me that the style is that they think the developers are out to hoodwink us. I like "agnostic" journalism. Where the facts are presented without editorial comments and summaries, etc.

I am a fan of what the developer has done, and I am not stupid, well maybe a little, and I dislike the sometimes acrid commentary. Just the facts maam.


AND maybe the suit was necessary, but that too is something I am not sure of. I lived here then and all seemed good to me.

[PennBF]

I agree with getting facts. It is unfortunate that some agrue against the Law suit but have not taken the time to understand the details but rather take the position that MAYBE the suit was necessary. Some have said all was well with me so why the suit? Of course they did not belong to the Paradise Rec Center with rats running in the ceilings and no reserve funds set aside to repair and replace failures. This is really a significant point as to why a POA is needed. If a problem does not impact some residents they care less about the ones being abused. Thus the need for a POA that looks out for ALL residents and not just a few who have not been abused by some policies and therefore put their dedication to the Developer above all including the needs of their Village neighbors. I should add that these same residents reap some of the rewards of the dedicated members of the POA but refuse to recognize that benefit and put the developer above all. The POA Bulletin is just that "a bulletin". It is meant to bring issues to the Residents and not report all crimes, or social activities. Net, it would be worthwhile to read the details of the lawsuit and then put yourself in the pictue and decided if you would still have the same opinion of the POA after truly understanding the background. :wave:

[Mikeod]

People should not lose sight of the fact that the officers of the POA live here and are just as appreciative of what the developer has created as anyone else. But there are issues that affect the residents that don't seem to get the attention from the "powers that be" that they deserve.

A good example is the roofing problem. Warranty was aware that defective shingles were installed on a lot of homes during a certain period. Did warranty notify homeowners that their roof may be defective and to get it inspected? Nope. We had to find out from an article in the POA. Has the developer used his clout to ensure homeowners with defective shingles were treated fairly and effectively by Owens Corning? Doesn't appear so, as some of my neighbors are still fighting to get OC to take responsibility.

Another is the vinyl siding issue. Even with documentation from contractors and the manufacturer that the siding was not installed properly, the developer denied there was a problem, even going so far as to display a piece of a home damaged by the tornado that had siding attached to it as "evidence" that the experts were wrong and the siding was installed OK. Eventually, the siding was replaced properly.

Moving here was the best move I've ever made. The developer has done many, many things right. But no one is perfect. Mistakes and misjudgements have occurred. When those things have not been addressed adequately, it has been the POA that has brought them to light.

Sometimes you have to shout to get attention. Sometimes you have to file suit to get an equitable settlement.

[dillywho]

I agree with getting facts. It is unfortunate that some agrue against the Law suit but have not taken the time to understand the details but rather take the position that MAYBE the suit was necessary. Some have said all was well with me so why the suit? Of course they did not belong to the Paradise Rec Center with rats running in the ceilings and no reserve funds set aside to repair and replace failures. This is really a significant point as to why a POA is needed. If a problem does not impact some residents they care less about the ones being abused. Thus the need for a POA that looks out for ALL residents and not just a few who have not been abused by some policies and therefore put their dedication to the Developer above all including the needs of their Village neighbors. I should add that these same residents reap some of the rewards of the dedicated members of the POA but refuse to recognize that benefit and put the developer above all. The POA Bulletin is just that "a bulletin". It is meant to bring issues to the Residents and not report all crimes, or social activities. Net, it would be worthwhile to read the details of the lawsuit and then put yourself in the pictue and decided if you would still have the same opinion of the POA after truly understanding the background. :wave:

In all fairness, there are problems with both the VHA, POA, and developer issues. Why? Because all involved are human, and as such, are imperfect. Sometimes it is hard to keep up with unanticipated changes and the ones that need to be aware sometimes get lost in the shuffle.

Someone brought up about the siding. Sounds like assumptions were made that all siding installers are created equal....not. All these houses have not been/were not built by the same contractors. Some turned out much better than others. That is a fact. My house has not had anything but minor issues; one across the street had many. They were built by two different contractors. Mine was not perfect, but I had no problem getting TV to address and rectify the problems.

1) My kitchen sink continually stopped up no matter what. I had several attempts to remedy this, including Pat the Plumber (remember him? big mistake to the tune of $200+ dollars with no resolution). Finally contacted the Warranty Dept. and asked who was the original plumber. It was Mike Scott Plumbing. Long story short, there was dry wall from the construction in the pipe. The company turned it in to TV as warranty work and it didn't cost me a dime. No problem since. This was six or seven years after construction.

2) Someone asked why my yard light was white and my carriage lights on the house were black. I had not paid attention to that. I called TV (Warranty) and told them about the question I had been asked. She looked at my "wish list" (we built when you could choose everything) and said that it called for black like the other lights. She said that she would check out the situation and call back. This was about 2 or 3 years ago and our house was completed in 2004. She later called and asked if I would be home that afternoon because Price Electric would be out to change out the light.

No, we didn't use the Paradise Rec Center because of the distance, but we did use the MM trails which were very inadequate. Why? Because at the time they were built, they did not see the heavy use that they do today. When we first came for our preview, carts were only allowed out on those trails between dawn and dusk. That changed sometime in 2003, first in the Marion County section.

Unfortunately, there were things that had to be done through a lawsuit and those reasons turned out to be many. That is also when the AAC was born. The AAC spends some of my money in ways that are totally of no use to me and with which I do not agree. Some is very well spent (cart paths, etc.). No matter what the developer, AAC, POA, VHA, or anyone else does, not everyone will be happy about one thing or another.

Personally, I think that all of the above are simply a means of maintaining checks and balances and I can see no reason why anyone would want it otherwise. Like I said in the beginning, no one is all right and no one is all wrong.

[Johnd]

Have been a POA member/supporter since I got here. They are negative in most of their stances but do have a number of victories in the past. They suffered a major defeat 2 years ago trying to gin up the dog park on Morse south of 466 into a major issue. Lost a lot of credibility.

Still, it's the only marketplace counterweight to the many propaganda organs and deserves support for that reason alone.

[PennBF]

Of course most of their reporting and work is negative. If someone wants a cheerleader for the Developer they do not have to go far. Go to a HOA meeting, buy the Daily newspaper, Attend some of the Villages organizations who are populated by direct or indirect directions by the Developer or his staff.
What would be wonderful and a terrific thing would be for the Developer to attend a POA meeting and understands some of the concerns of the residents. If I were an input to his office I would definitely recommend this as I am sure his Grandfather would be there and out on the street shaking hands. The lawsuit is over and time for him to move on and defuse the contention between him and the POA. I am sure he would be received with the dignity and honor that he deserves and we could have a cohesive community. :wave:

[Advogado]

Maybe it would be nice if both organizations merged together, for the sake of ALL Villagers?

Agree, but since the VHA is subsidized by the Developer as a means of weakening the POA, it is not going to happen in the foreseeable future.

[CFrance]

Have been a POA member/supporter since I got here. They are negative in most of their stances but do have a number of victories in the past. They suffered a major defeat 2 years ago trying to gin up the dog park on Morse south of 466 into a major issue. Lost a lot of credibility.

Still, it's the only marketplace counterweight to the many propaganda organs and deserves support for that reason alone.
And yet... there is now going to be a dog park south of 466. The effort has to start somewhere. What looked like a failure might have been a beginning.

[Indydealmaker]

There are several posts on this topic that describe the POA as being negative. I assume they are referring to many of the POA stands against decisions and/or actions by The Villages management.

However, these positions by the POA are normally not negative for the sake of negativity. They are positions by the POA that are FOR and on behalf of the property owners which, if taken with a long view, are positions FOR the community as a whole.

When did an alternative viewpoint become synonymous with negativity?

From what I have read about the POA of old and today's POA, this organization has become far more moderate while, at the same time, not losing focus of the mission that advocacy for the property owners does not have to mean they are AGAINST the Developer.

[CFrance]

There are several posts on this topic that describe the POA as being negative. I assume they are referring to many of the POA stands against decisions and/or actions by The Villages management.

However, these positions by the POA are normally not negative for the sake of negativity. They are positions by the POA that are FOR and on behalf of the property owners which, if taken with a long view, are positions FOR the community as a whole.

When did an alternative viewpoint become synonymous with negativity?

From what I have read about the POA of old and today's POA, this organization has become far more moderate while, at the same time, not losing focus of the mission that advocacy for the property owners does not have to mean they are AGAINST the Developer.
Amen.:bowdown:

[Gary7]

There are several posts on this topic that describe the POA as being negative. I assume they are referring to many of the POA stands against decisions and/or actions by The Villages management.

However, these positions by the POA are normally not negative for the sake of negativity. They are positions by the POA that are FOR and on behalf of the property owners which, if taken with a long view, are positions FOR the community as a whole.

When did an alternative viewpoint become synonymous with negativity?

From what I have read about the POA of old and today's POA, this organization has become far more moderate while, at the same time, not losing focus of the mission that advocacy for the property owners does not have to mean they are AGAINST the Developer.

Ditto

[Cedwards38]

My observation is that the POA and VHA are both helpful to residents in various and sometimes different ways. I'm happy to be a member of both.

[Madelaine Amee]

There are several posts on this topic that describe the POA as being negative. I assume they are referring to many of the POA stands against decisions and/or actions by The Villages management.

However, these positions by the POA are normally not negative for the sake of negativity. They are positions by the POA that are FOR and on behalf of the property owners which, if taken with a long view, are positions FOR the community as a whole.

When did an alternative viewpoint become synonymous with negativity?

From what I have read about the POA of old and today's POA, this organization has become far more moderate while, at the same time, not losing focus of the mission that advocacy for the property owners does not have to mean they are AGAINST the Developer.

:agree: Once again, the voice of reason - thank you!

[LittleDog]

My observation is that the POA and VHA are both helpful to residents in various and sometimes different ways. I'm happy to be a member of both.

Me too.

John

[Warren Kiefer]

there are several posts on this topic that describe the poa as being negative. I assume they are referring to many of the poa stands against decisions and/or actions by the villages management.

However, these positions by the poa are normally not negative for the sake of negativity. They are positions by the poa that are for and on behalf of the property owners which, if taken with a long view, are positions for the community as a whole.

When did an alternative viewpoint become synonymous with negativity?

From what i have read about the poa of old and today's poa, this organization has become far more moderate while, at the same time, not losing focus of the mission that advocacy for the property owners does not have to mean they are against the developer.

you are 100% correct !!!

[Mr.Big]

Yep. I guess that I am better off just renting in The Villages until I croak. Just a big, tall, snowbird tenant that does not have to think about the POA or HOA. If my landlord is happy; then I am happy.

[CFrance]

Yep. I guess that I am better off just renting in The Villages until I croak. Just a big, tall, snowbird tenant that does not have to think about the POA or HOA. If my landlord is happy; then I am happy.
To each his own! I'll take the problems of home ownership in return for the warm shoulder seasons.

There is now 8 inches of snow in our former neighborhood. Back when we had two houses, we would have been in the car this morning headed south. Renting wouldn't give us that option. Also, when we were renting, the rent kept going up hill, and the places that accepted dogs kept going downhill.

But I do get your point. There's some freedom from hassle there.

[Madelaine Amee]

Yep. I guess that I am better off just renting in The Villages until I croak. Just a big, tall, snowbird tenant that does not have to think about the POA or HOA. If my landlord is happy; then I am happy.

That would not suit me. I like the permanence of belonging somewhere and being part of something. POA or HOA does not interfere with me one way or the other.

[Mr.Big]

Yep. I could become a frog in the future. But, it is nice returning to the Tennessee hills in the summer and swimming in my pool, walking the Creeper Trail, and getting away from the heat.. My dogs love The Villages. I have a good landlord. I do spend the winters in The Villages. The realtors tell me that I am throwing my money away. I tend to think I am getting something for my money. I can't take it with me!!!!!!!!