SAVE 5 miles per gallon......

[Rokinronda]

We just bought a hybrid civic. We absolutely love it and have closely monitored the gas consumption. After a fill up at Circle K on 441 it seemed to be getting less. Next fill up was Sunoco and sure enough the milaege went up again. By at least 5 miles per gallon!! Do you think Circle K gas has less octane than advertised. We use regular gas. Both gas stations list octane at 87. Grandpa was a SUNOCO driver and I should have known better!!

[SteveFromNY]

Maybe their pump calibration is off? A gallon might be a little less than a gallon when they pump it. That's a 10% or so discrepancy. With an SUV that gets 12 MPG, so the next tank it gets 10.8 - hardly noticeable and easy to rationalize why. Apply that same 10% to a car that gets 50 mpg, and the 5 mpg difference is more noticeable.
The state should inspect them to be sure they aren't cheating folks.

[Rokinronda]

This car is great. Hubby travels 100-200 miles per day working. We have a triptik that calibrates the fuel consuption per trip, per day, and per tank. It is a 12.2 gallon tank. Both fill ups were for just over 10 gallons to fill. Circle K was averaging 36-38 miles per gallon, consistantly, throughout the different days, all with similar driving habits. After the Sunoco fill up, the daily and tankful consumption increased to an average 45-47 MPG. Thats a big difference, approx. 100 more miles per fill. Sunoco is probably a much cleaner burning fuel. IM humble O...but, thanks for your opinion, also!!!!! For now we are sticking w/ Sunoco.

[Sidney Lanier]

We are on our second Prius which consistently gets around 50 mph, give or take a mile or two. We never noticed that one gas or another affects the gas mileage significantly (though very cold weather driving up north does somewhat). It's definitely possible for a station to be 'cheating' (unknowingly or deliberately, no way to know...); we once filled up and found that the tank took more than its capacity (!), and you can be sure that we reported that station, but I think this is relatively rare. Hybrids are terrific, especially the Prius and the Civic; somehow a hybrid SUV doesn't make much sense to us....

[SteveFromNY]

I would stick with Sunoco too. Whether it's the brand (cleaner burning?) or the station (properly calibrated pumps) or the car (broken in and running better) wouldn't matter to me. I'd go to the one that I've had good luck with, and better mileage. That's a big difference in the MPG - its 1/3 better than Circle-K. I still think it's too big a difference for just a better burning fuel (or there'd always be a LOOOONG line at Sunoco stations IMHO), but maybe a number of contributing factors.
Anyway, that's terrific mileage! I think a gas golf cart gets about that mileage!

[Sidney Lanier]

Friends of ours with a gas golf cart swear that they get about 200 mpg. I still prefer our electric cart!!!

[DENNIS G]

A lot depends on when you fill up. If you fill early in the morning you will most likely get more gas than if you fill at 3-4 in the afternoon. The tanks are supposed to be kept a certain temperature but most will heat up in the afternoon, therefore the gas is lighter and has expanded so you only get about 75-80% of a gallon even tho the pumps say you got a gallon. When it is cool or cold you get a solid gallon. I used to be an Over The Road Driver and when we had to fuel in the afternoon we never got the same mileage as when we fueled early in the mornings. When you only get 4-6 mile to the gallon, every little bit helps. I have used all the different brands of gas around here, I perfer Shell as I have a car that requires premium gas. Shell seems to give me the best mileage.

[Russ_Boston]

Dennis - Just like Wikipedia does - I think I'll need to see some reference here to support your 75-80% claim. I'm not doubting your experience but some science reference would be nice.

My take - Since the tanks are underground i assume that the temperature is almost constant (especially here in FLA). The ground temp may increase/decrease as the seasons change but during one day the temp should not change from morning to afternoon.

Cleaner gas i can believe.

[johnfarr]

Ethanol will reduce MPG. Check to see what % is added to your fuel. There is no price reduction when ethanol is added. This is from EnergyRefuge.com:

Consumer Reports may irritate a lot of hybrid SUV owners with a new report that was just released. Their study focused on the new flex fuel, 2007 Chevy Tahoe SUV. The Tahoe can either run on gasoline or e85 ethanol, which is a blend of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. The report found that the Tahoe averaged 14 mpg on gasoline, and only 10 mpg on ethanol. This decrease in mpg is expected because ethanol contains less energy than gasoline. This means that using e85 fuel will cause drivers to refuel more often than gasoline.


During a time when gasoline and ethanol prices are already so high, refueling more often can become very costly. Another issue is that e85 ethanol gas stations are not that prevalent. Of the 176,000 gas stations in the country, only about 800 sell E85. Until more ethanol stations spring up, people would have to map routes when traveling, just so they could refuel. The head of market development at the American Coalition for Ethanol, Ron Lamberty says, "If you're concerned about emissions, you should use E85. If you want to make sure the money you spend is circulated through the American economy rather than some South American or Middle Eastern country, the choice is E85."

So where does the average American who purchases an ethanol friendly SUV stand? Why go through the heartache and extra troubles? Is it really worth it? Hmmm...It is better for the environment, it can always be filled with regular gasoline, and it is renewable. Works for me!

[Russ_Boston]

There is a lot bigger debate to be waged when talking about E85. You have to consider the whole impact that larger corn production plays:

Land formally used for wheat crops now being used for corn: means larger price for all wheat products due to limited supply. Check out bread prices for example.

Corn is still being subsidized by the federal government: means larger taxes for all due to our money being used to subsidize.

Biofuels will only slow down our hunt for real alternative fuel sources: means no real plug-in vehicle in the near future for the masses due to less R&D money. Electricity can be fueled by multiple sources other than fossil or bio fuel.


I not trying to make an argument for or against biofuel but let's have a debate on the whole issue without resorting to the "it's better for the environment" mantra blindly. BTW, hydrogen powerered vehicles are much better 'for the environment' than ethanol but your not going to see that anytime soon with the fuel lobbies that exist in DC.

Sounding a little too much like the political forum for me but just my 2 pennies worth - Russ

[johnfarr]

Hydrogen power, is not viable with current technology.

An exerpt from the following web site:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/07/030718084311.htm

One problem, said Farrell, an expert on energy and environment issues, is that this glosses over the issue of where the hydrogen comes from. Current methods of producing hydrogen from oil and coal produce substantial carbon dioxide. Unless and until this carbon can be captured and stored, renewable (wind or solar) and nuclear power, with their attendant problems of supply and waste, are the only means of producing hydrogen without also producing greenhouse gases.

[Russ_Boston]

Agreed but that is why we need further research - there is NO easy answer.

And that article is from 2003 - times change, science changes. Other articles on that same page look more promising for hydrogen. I think that we will see far less dependence on fossil fuel with 15 years and perhaps none by 2050. Heck I'll be 93 by then God willing but it would be nice to see.

[Rokinronda]

:agree: :agree:
There is a lot bigger debate to be waged when talking about E85. You have to consider the whole impact that larger corn production plays:

Land formally used for wheat crops now being used for corn: means larger price for all wheat products due to limited supply. Check out bread prices for example.

Corn is still being subsidized by the federal government: means larger taxes for all due to our money being used to subsidize.

Biofuels will only slow down our hunt for real alternative fuel sources: means no real plug-in vehicle in the near future for the masses due to less R&D money. Electricity can be fueled by multiple sources other than fossil or bio fuel.


I not trying to make an argument for or against biofuel but let's have a debate on the whole issue without resorting to the "it's better for the environment" mantra blindly. BTW, hydrogen powerered vehicles are much better 'for the environment' than ethanol but your not going to see that anytime soon with the fuel lobbies that exist in DC.

Just my 2 pennies worth - Russ

Russ, I will make an argument for a clean earth any day! The newest technology I have researched extensively is the engine that runs on compressed air!!! It has been acheived and I know that we WANT and NEED to embrace these advanced technologies NOW!! My feeling is the oil giants (fuel lobbies) know this is the future and are robbing us now (still highest profits ever) and trying to steer us into biofuel?? I just heard of a rice shortage!! Whats next?? Continue to build gas guzzling vehicles that I see w/1 person in the vehicle. 10 miles per gallon really bothers me! I always bought American vehicles and always try to buy american made. NAFTA was a thorn in my side. One of the worst decisions I believe our country ever made. GM, Ford, Chevy etc.. I've had gas guzzlers. Never again! My preferred choice this time was a Honda or Toyota HYBRID! Why is this country not engineering technologically advanced vehicles?? If we can explore space, be the worlds humanitarian, then we need to GO GREEN! If we need ugly wind towers for energy, to save our earth, so be it. If compressed air engines work, why are we not utilizing these clean options. Incentives and rebates from the government are a no brainer! Solar for hot water, everywhere!! This country needs to wake up and become self sufficient on this issue! Next rebate should be a solar powered water heater for every home! LOL....Not money to pay bills, or to spend foolishly, or even wisely (HYBRID), but money saved on heating water many years in the future!! OK I'm done for now. Thanks for a place to vent some hot air!!!!! http://auto.howstuffworks.com/air-car1.htm

[Rokinronda]

Very important discussion.........more so every day!! BUMP!