News about Quackbuster Stephen Barrett

[Villages PL]

Gary Null's book, "Death By Medicine" was the combined effort of 4 doctors, 3 of which are MDs. Being that Stephen Barrett was said to discredit Gary Null, I think it's only fair to look at some news concerning Stephen Barrett.

http://www.anh-europe.org/news/quackbuster-stephen-barrett-md-loses-appeal-and-leaves-home-town

Anyone who takes the time to read the whole link is going to be amazed.

[graciegirl]

Gary Null

http://www.bing.com/th?id=A%252fZiXBsJ%252bx8BZcg300C300&w=110&h=110&c=7&rs=1&qlt=80&pcl=f9f9f9&cdv=1&pid=16.2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Null)
www.goodreads.com (http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/104490.Gary_Null)


Gary Michael Null is an American talk radio host and author who advocates for alternative medicine and naturopathy and who produces a line of dietary supplements. His views on health and nutrition are at odds with scientific consensus…[/URL]
Gary Michael Null is an American talk radio host and author who advocates for alternative medicine and naturopathy and who produces a line of dietary supplements. His views on health and nutrition are at odds with scientific consensus; Stephen Barrett, co-founder of the National Council Against Health Fraud, described Null as "one of the nation's leading promoters of dubious treatment for serious disease".
[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Null"]en.wikipedia.org (javascript:void(0);)· Text under CC-BY-SA license (http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/)


Born: 1945 · Parkersburg, West Virginia (http://www.bing.com/search?q=parkersburg+wv&filters=ufn%3a%22parkersburg+wv%22+sid%3a%2211067b ab-26a3-b1c9-0cdd-1a3683833066%22&FORM=SNAPST)
Education: Union Institute & University (http://www.bing.com/search?q=union+institute+and+university&filters=ufn%3a%22union+institute+and+university%22 +sid%3a%227753635e-3fd8-bdcf-81c3-7226d048d3c8%22&FORM=SNAPST) · Thomas Edison State College (http://www.bing.com/search?q=thomas+edison+state+college&filters=ufn%3a%22thomas+edison+state+college%22+si d%3a%22d8724c8c-c2c6-bb8e-e783-e34e9a0f5c40%22&FORM=SNAPST)

Timeline

1979: In the 1979-80, he co-authored a series of articles on cancer research for Penthouse, entitled The Politics of Cancer beginning with one entitled "The Great Cancer Fraud."

1985: In 1985, Null began writing a lengthy series of reports for Penthouse entitled "Medical Genocide".

1999: His videos have been aired by PBS during pledge drives, but have since been banned, which in 1999, lead to a surge in sales of Null's books and for record fundraising for the stations.



This is an OLD book VPL. Science changes by the second these days.

[Villages PL]

Gary Null's book was authored by 4 doctors and has a copyright date of 2010. That's not old. Statistics don't come out every year. The CDC's statistics (2010?) don't come out every year either. You haven't been able to discredit anything in his book. You have only provided some mud-slinging by Stephen Barrett. And now we see that Stephen Barrett, according to the article, has been working as a shake-down artist, suing close to 40 doctors and asking for $100,000 settlements.

So, again, you have nothing concrete, all you have is an attempt by Stephen Barrett to discredit him.

[graciegirl]

You always say....follow the money, or some version of that. He sells stuff. M.D.s aren't supposed to be in retail.

At least the one's I trust aren't.

[Barefoot]

His book was authored by 4 doctors and has a copyright date of 2010. That's not old. Statistics don't come out every year. The CDC's statistics (2010?) don't come out every year either.

I'm curious why you don't find the CDC's statistics more believable than a book with a catchy title written for profit.

[Villages PL]

You always say....follow the money, or some version of that. He sells stuff. M.D.s aren't supposed to be in retail.

At least the one's I trust aren't.

Yes, I don't like it when books appear to be written for the purpose of making sales of food items or other "health" items. That's because what they are selling may keep them from telling the truth about what it takes to be healthy.

However, never having read anything by him other than "Death By Medicine", I can only judge him by this book. And I'm judging it on its own merits: 1) It appears to be well documented 2) It's authored by 4 doctors 3) There are no items offered for sale.

[CFrance]

Yes, I don't like it when books appear to be written for the purpose of making sales of food items or other "health" items. That's because what they are selling may keep them from telling the truth about what it takes to be healthy.

However, never having read anything by him other than "Death By Medicine", I can only judge him by this book. And I'm judging it on its own merits: 1) It appears to be well documented 2) It's authored by 4 doctors 3) There are no items offered for sale.
Huh? I wouldn't judge anyone one way or the other, only having read one thing written by that person.

[KayakerNC]

Gary Null's book was authored by 4 doctors and has a copyright date of 2010. That's not old. Statistics don't come out every year. The CDC's statistics (2010?) don't come out every year either. You haven't been able to discredit anything in his book. You have only provided some mud-slinging by Stephen Barrett. And now we see that Stephen Barrett, according to the article, has been working as a shake-down artist, suing close to 40 doctors and asking for $100,000 settlements.

So, again, you have nothing concrete, all you have is an attempt by Stephen Barrett to discredit him.

Your promotion of a book by a Medical Huckster out for profit is lame.

"On his radio show, and in books and self-produced movies, Null criticizes the medical community, promotes a range of alternative cancer treatments, denies that HIV causes AIDS, and promotes dietary supplements which he produces."
Gary Null - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Null)

[Villages PL]

I'm curious why you don't find the CDC's statistics more believable than a book with a catchy title written for profit.

I would have explained it sooner if I had been given the chance. The statistics in his book don't necessarily disagree with CDC statistics, as far as I can tell.

As far as profit: Those who head the CDC probably make far more money than Gary Null. Should we discredit CDC doctors for making a lot of money ? "Center for Disease Control" is an impressive title too. So what?

Are you against "catchy" titles? If you write a really good book and nobody reads it because it has a dull title, what good it that? It wouldn't be very smart of the authors if they go through a lot of trouble and no one buys the book.

Is a book written for profit a bad thing necessarily? And in this case they have to split the money between 4 doctors. How about our personal physicians. Don't they make a profit off of every office visit? Is that bad?
Can we believe them when they say we need to come back for a follow-up exam?

[Barefoot]

However, never having read anything by him other than "Death By Medicine", I can only judge him by this book.

By googling Gary Null's name, you can easily see that he went on to write 30 controversial books and market a variety of supplemental products.
Doesn't that make you doubt his authenticity?

[Villages PL]

Your promotion of a book by a Medical Huckster out for profit is lame.

"On his radio show, and in books and self-produced movies, Null criticizes the medical community, promotes a range of alternative cancer treatments, denies that HIV causes AIDS, and promotes dietary supplements which he produces."
Gary Null - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Null)

It seems you're acting as though he wrote the book by himself in order to discredit the book. And taking statements of his out of context is all too easy. How is that any different than what Stephen Barrett was doing? Mud slinging. You haven't even waited to see the breakdown of statistics that the 4 authors provide.

[dbussone]

I would have explained it sooner if I had been given the chance. The statistics in his book don't necessarily disagree with CDC statistics, as far as I can tell.

As far as profit: Those who head the CDC probably make far more money than Gary Null. Should we discredit CDC doctors for making a lot of money ? "Center for Disease Control" is an impressive title too. So what?

Are you against "catchy" titles? If you write a really good book and nobody reads it because it has a dull title, what good it that? It wouldn't be very smart of the authors if they go through a lot of trouble and no one buys the book.

Is a book written for profit a bad thing necessarily? And in this case they have to split the money between 4 doctors. How about our personal physicians. Don't they make a profit off of every office visit? Is that bad?
Can we believe them when they say we need to come back for a follow-up exam?

It's "Centers" for Disease Control, a government agency, which is part of HHS. I doubt the physicians who work for CDC, NIH, or other similar agencies make a boatload of cash. Since they are government employees you can look up how much they are paid

[Barefoot]

Your promotion of a book by a Medical Huckster out for profit is lame. "On his radio show, and in books and self-produced movies, Null criticizes the medical community, promotes a range of alternative cancer treatments, denies that HIV causes AIDS, and promotes dietary supplements which he produces."
Gary Null - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Null)

Now that we have the internet and google, it's easy to see Null's history, his outrageous statements, and that he basically makes his money by writing controversial books targeting the medical community.
And of course he also sells supplemental products.
I wouldn't believe anything written by an author with his credentials.

[Villages PL]

Huh? I wouldn't judge anyone one way or the other, only having read one thing written by that person.

Am I the only one that you're holding to a higher standard? Am I the only one that must read more than one book before judging?

Suppose I first read one book by him alone and I don't like it. Then I read, "Death By Medicine" by him and 3 MDs and I like it. What does that mean? One was good and one was bad, but not written by the same authors. What am I suppose to think?

[Villages PL]

It's "Centers" for Disease Control, a government agency, which is part of HHS. I doubt the physicians who work for CDC, NIH, or other similar agencies make a boatload of cash. Since they are government employees you can look up how much they are paid

How does it compare with 4 doctors dividing the proceeds of one book? They are certainly not going to make a boatload of cash on one book.

Why would a competent doctor head the CDC if not to make a good salary? Just for the fun of it?

[Villages PL]

Now that we have the internet and google, it's easy to see Null's history, his outrageous statements, and that he basically makes his money by writing controversial books targeting the medical community.
And of course he also sells supplemental products.
I wouldn't believe anything written by an author with his credentials.

You have the internet to see what Stephen Barrett is all about. He's a shake-down artist slinging mud at doctors. But that makes no difference to you? Who else do you have besides Stephen Barrett? Anyone?

[Barefoot]

You have the internet to see what Stephen Barrett is all about. He's a shake-down artist slinging mud at doctors. But that makes no difference to you? Who else do you have besides Stephen Barrett? Anyone?

Just Google the name "Gary Null". I think you will quickly understand that this author is a questionable source at best.
I'm trying to be polite and not use the term "Medical Huckster".
Go on amazon.com and see the 30 books he has written.
By using the internet for research, you can see for yourself and not rely on anyone's second-hand information.

[dbussone]

How does it compare with 4 doctors dividing the proceeds of one book? They are certainly not going to make a boatload of cash on one book.

Why would a competent doctor head the CDC if not to make a good salary? Just for the fun of it?

To serve humanity. Certainly profit and lifestyle are motives for physicians, but I personally know many academic physicians who made far less than I did...because teaching, research and patient care mattered to them. Why don't you read about the life of Arthur Guyton (from Mississippi) who developed the math model for the circulatory system. I believe he made about $120K. Jim Hardy, another wonderful man, was the surgeon who developed the surgical technique that Christian Barnard used for the first man to man heart transplant. He also did the first lung transplant in man. I think he made about $200k in his last year. I could go on and on, and have been so fortunate to know so many medical pioneers. Gary Null, PhD is no comparison.

[perrjojo]

I always take medical advice from someone who wrote for Penthouse.

[CFrance]

I would have explained it sooner if I had been given the chance. The statistics in his book don't necessarily disagree with CDC statistics, as far as I can tell.

As far as profit: Those who head the CDC probably make far more money than Gary Null. Should we discredit CDC doctors for making a lot of money ? "Center for Disease Control" is an impressive title too. So what?

Are you against "catchy" titles? If you write a really good book and nobody reads it because it has a dull title, what good it that? It wouldn't be very smart of the authors if they go through a lot of trouble and no one buys the book.

Is a book written for profit a bad thing necessarily? And in this case they have to split the money between 4 doctors. How about our personal physicians. Don't they make a profit off of every office visit? Is that bad?
Can we believe them when they say we need to come back for a follow-up exam?
The CDC is a non-profit government agency. Nobody there is personally profiting by what they say or do, and you can't compare the doctors that work there at all to a doctor or doctors writing books to be sold for profit.

I'm leery of any books that these so-called experts write for profit, catchy title or dull title. Or the ones that make the talk-show rounds. Or the ones that ARE the talk shows. The people that hold credibility for me are the ones doing the research and publishing in the trusted medical journals.

My doctors have never once said to me, "Go to the library and read this book by Dr. So-and-so."

[CFrance]

Am I the only one that you're holding to a higher standard? Am I the only one that must read more than one book before judging?

Suppose I first read one book by him alone and I don't like it. Then I read, "Death By Medicine" by him and 3 MDs and I like it. What does that mean? One was good and one was bad, but not written by the same authors. What am I suppose to think?
To me it would mean that you haven't done enough research on the author(s) to be able to assess their credibility.

[dbussone]

I always take medical advice from someone who wrote for Penthouse.

LOL! Oh my gosh. Now that's a hoot. Did you get any other useful information?

[CFrance]

I always take medical advice from someone who wrote for Penthouse.

LOL! Oh my gosh. Now that's a hoot. Did you get any other useful information?
Yes, they furthered Low T awareness.

[dbussone]

Yes, they furthered Low T awareness.

:jester:

[Loudoll]

I always take medical advice from someone who wrote for Penthouse.:agree:

[Villages PL]

By googling Gary Null's name, you can easily see that he went on to write 30 controversial books and market a variety of supplemental products.
Doesn't that make you doubt his authenticity?

Yes, it does make me doubt his authenticity. But I also doubt Wikipedia's authenticity for using Stephen Barrett as a source to discredit Null. Read my opening link!!!!

The book "Death By Medicine" does not recommend any particular lifestyle, products or alternative medicine. In many cases this book quotes CDC statements and statistics.

For example: In 2008, Dr. Lauri Hicks, a CDC medical director, warned that, "Antibiotic overuse is a serious problem and a threat to everyone's health."

Also in his book: CDC Estimated 10-year Mortality Rate due to hospital infections: .99 million, Cost: $5 billion+

Then there were other statistics of Medical Interventions that brought the total deaths up to 794,936 annually.

[Villages PL]

In addition to the CDCs estimated 10-year Death Rate of .99 million for hospital infections, I just found the following report by JAMA:

Adverse drug reactions may cause over 100,000 deaths among hospitalized patients each year.

It's beginning to add up and I assume these are sources you trust.

[Chi-Town]

OK. I can almost understand people reading Playboy for the articles, but Penthouse is just for the porn. What a source.

[Villages PL]

Here's another from NPR: Search: "How Many Die From Medical Mistakes In U.S. Hospitals?

It was first estimated at 98,000 yearly deaths. But a new study, published in The Journal of Patient Safety, states that the numbers may be much higher - between 210,000 and 440,000 patients each year.

This is in addition to hospital infections and adverse drug reactions.

Want more? I'm just getting started.

[KayakerNC]

Here's another from NPR: Search: "How Many Die From Medical Mistakes In U.S. Hospitals?

It was first estimated at 98,000 yearly deaths. But a new study, published in The Journal of Patient Safety, states that the numbers may be much higher - between 210,000 and 440,000 patients each year.

This is in addition to hospital infections and adverse drug reactions.

Want more? I'm just getting started.

If that was a serious question, the answer is No Thanks. :mornincoffee:

[Villages PL]

If that was a serious question, the answer is No Thanks. :mornincoffee:

Oh, come on!

How about this one: Deaths due to hospital bedsores - 34,319 per year. This is from the Mayo Clinic's site.
(Patient Safety in American Hospitals, Health Grades 2004)

[dbussone]

Villages - When dealing with stats from different sources, generally regarding a common topic, one has to be exceptionally careful not to make errant assumptions. In other words it is highly likely that that there is a significant amount of overlap in the data you are suggesting be added together.

[sunnyatlast]

Gary Null's book was authored by 4 doctors and has a copyright date of 2010. That's not old. Statistics don't come out every year. The CDC's statistics (2010?) don't come out every year either. You haven't been able to discredit anything in his book. You have only provided some mud-slinging by Stephen Barrett. And now we see that Stephen Barrett, according to the article, has been working as a shake-down artist, suing close to 40 doctors and asking for $100,000 settlements.

So, again, you have nothing concrete, all you have is an attempt by Stephen Barrett to discredit him.

If he had an ounce of decency he would be donating his medical knowledge and skills AND lawsuit settlement monies to treat the working poor who cannot afford their new deductibles of $4000-$5000 before getting any use out of their shiny new insurance plan for which they struggle to pay $250/month or more.

Or he could donate to Ebola vaccine development or direct patient care with ebola or other victims.

"Huckster" is too nice a word for him.

Injured patients or survivors can get the malpractice lawyers to file the suits. State medical boards can discipline the quacks and revoke licensing.

[dbussone]

If he had an ounce of decency he would be donating his medical knowledge and skills AND lawsuit settlement monies to treat the working poor who cannot afford their new deductibles of $4000-$5000 before getting any use out of their shiny new insurance plan for which they struggle to pay $250/month or more.

Or he could donate to Ebola vaccine development or direct patient care with ebola or other victims.

"Huckster" is too nice a word for him.

Injured patients or survivors can get the malpractice lawyers to file the suits. State medical boards can discipline the quacks and revoke licensing.

Interestingly, Dr Hull is not a physician. His PhD is questionable (not my words). I concur with your sentiment.

Read more at the following link:

http://lee-phillips.org/null/phd.html

[Barefoot]

Want more? I'm just getting started.

If that was a serious question, the answer is No Thanks. :mornincoffee:
:ohdear:


When dealing with stats from different sources, ...... it is highly likely that that there is a significant amount of overlap in the data you are suggesting be added together.

Exactly. I'm wary of the specious statistics that have been quoted on this topic.

[Villages PL]

Villages - When dealing with stats from different sources, generally regarding a common topic, one has to be exceptionally careful not to make errant assumptions. In other words it is highly likely that that there is a significant amount of overlap in the data you are suggesting be added together.

How do you know it's highly likely that there's a significant amount of overlap? Now who's making assumptions?

Here are some of the categories:

Hospital Adverse Drug Reaction

Hospital Medical Error

Hospital Bedsores

Hospital Infection

Unnecessary Procedures

Surgery-related

How would the above overlap? Can you give an example?

[dbussone]

How do you know it's highly likely that there's a significant amount of overlap? Now who's making assumptions?



Here are some of the categories:



Hospital Adverse Drug Reaction



Hospital Medical Error



Hospital Bedsores



Hospital Infection



Unnecessary Procedures



Surgery-related



How would the above overlap? Can you give an example?


Well let's see how about adverse drug reactions and medical errors

[Villages PL]

Duplicate post deleted.

[Villages PL]

If he had an ounce of decency he would be donating his medical knowledge and skills AND lawsuit settlement monies to treat the working poor who cannot afford their new deductibles of $4000-$5000 before getting any use out of their shiny new insurance plan for which they struggle to pay $250/month or more.

Or he could donate to Ebola vaccine development or direct patient care with ebola or other victims.

"Huckster" is too nice a word for him.

Injured patients or survivors can get the malpractice lawyers to file the suits. State medical boards can discipline the quacks and revoke licensing.

Gary Null, PhD, was not the one shaking down numerous medical doctors for $100,000 settlements. That was Stephen Barrett. Did you bother to read my opining link about Barrett? Did you read any book by Null?

[Villages PL]

Well let's see how about adverse drug reactions and medical errors

You still didn't give an example of how one would be confused with the other.

A medical error is exactly that, an error, and often doesn't involve drugs. If it does involve a drug, it's because the patient was given the wrong drug by error. I had a neighbor who was about in his 40s and died in the hospital when they mistakenly gave him the wrong drug.

Adverse drug reactions are those that are not because of an error. A doctor prescribed a drug for me a few decades ago that almost killed me.

[dbussone]

Well let's see how about adverse drug reactions and medical errors


And how about bedsores and infections.

[dbussone]

I apologize but you aren't even close to a subject which is remotely familiar to you. Your logic is not correct and I'm fairly certain you aren't familiar with all the medical terminology. I don't participate for the sake of argument. Most of the time I participate either to educate myself or to help or educate others. When you've worked in healthcare for 45 years...give me a shout. But don't insult my knowledge or intelligence.

[dbussone]

I apologize but you aren't even close to a subject which is remotely familiar to you. Your logic is not correct and I'm fairly certain you aren't familiar with all the medical terminology. I don't participate for the sake of argument. Most of the time I participate either to educate myself or to help or educate others. When you've worked in healthcare for 45 years...give me a shout. But don't insult my knowledge or intelligence.


This is directed to Villages.

[Villages PL]

:ohdear:



Exactly. I'm wary of the specious statistics that have been quoted on this topic.

Notice that no one has any comprehensive statistics of their own. It's easy to doubt but what do you have to offer?

[dbussone]

???...I gave you 97 pages of death statistics maintained by the CDC for 2010. If that doesn't qualify I wouldn't know what does. As I noted earlier I'm not here to argue. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving with Mr Null.
Signing off this thread.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I would have explained it sooner if I had been given the chance. The statistics in his book don't necessarily disagree with CDC statistics, as far as I can tell.

As far as profit: Those who head the CDC probably make far more money than Gary Null. Should we discredit CDC doctors for making a lot of money ? "Center for Disease Control" is an impressive title too. So what?

Are you against "catchy" titles? If you write a really good book and nobody reads it because it has a dull title, what good it that? It wouldn't be very smart of the authors if they go through a lot of trouble and no one buys the book.

Is a book written for profit a bad thing necessarily? And in this case they have to split the money between 4 doctors. How about our personal physicians. Don't they make a profit off of every office visit? Is that bad?
Can we believe them when they say we need to come back for a follow-up exam?

When were you denied the chance to explain anything? Did one of our members come to your house and steal your keyboard?

Who is Betty Martini?

[Villages PL]

Out of curiosity I checked out this book from the Belvedere Library to see just how bad it is.

In the very beginning he has a section on "How to Use Alternative Therapies Safely"

Here are a few of his statements/suggestions:

1) Get diagnosed by a conventional physician to be sure you're not missing anything.

2) Always weigh the risks and benefits of any approach.

3) Just because it's 'natural' doesn't mean it's safe.

4) If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is.

Some of his advice on treating cancer:

"Antioxidant supplements prevent cells from becoming cancerous and can increase a patients tolerance for chemotherapy and radiation;...."

This indicates that he is not against conventional treatments for cancer.

About AIDS:
"Researchers now seem hopeful that new drug combinations can keep the disease under control, and this approach does seem to be helping some patients. At this point, though, no one knows the long-term effects of these drugs. What we do know is that long-term survivors do not rely totally on pharmaceuticals."

Once again, he's not against conventional treatments, he's recommending a balanced approach of medication and nutrition.

This doesn't mean I agree with everything he recommends, but it's not dangerous as long as people remember to take his advice and consult with their PCP first.