Trespassing by tax appraisers

[Talk Host]

While playing golf today on Lopez in Marion County, I observed two men with clip boards walking along the rear of a row of houses. They were walking in yards, up to the backs of houses (In and around the windows) sometimes measuring, then walking off to the next back yard.

I asked them what they were doing. They said, "property tax." I asked them if they were allowed to enter private property without the homeowners permission. They answered "yes."

When I got home, I called the Marion county tax assessor's office and asked if that was correct. I was told that it is correct, that the assessors do not need to identify themselves or tell the homeowners that they are there.

They have permission to do whatever they want to do and don't need permission. I'm sorry, but I've got a real problem with that. >:( >:(

[Kitria]

I think a research should be done. I know in my home town they have to knock on the door and tell you they are there. I do know, however, that they do walk around the outside of the houseif no one is home.

[Talk Host]

It did not appear that they were even trying to announce themselves. They were walking from back yard to back yard to back yard. Remember, when I asked them if they could do that without permission, their answer was "YES"

[Village Kid 2]

The Property Appraiser or his representative is statutorily charged with physically inspecting every property at least once every 5 years (Section 193.023(2), Fla. Stat.) so it seems they don't need permission from a property owner to do that.

However, they should identify themselves. I called the local (Leon County) PA and was told their inspectors wear uniforms and carry ID which they provide when asked. Makes sense.

VK2

[SteveFromNY]

I'm missing something...It doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

[Taltarzac]

They probably also have to inspect at a reasonable time of day like from 8 to 5 and not much earlier or later???

[Talk Host]

I'm missing something...It doesn't seem like a big deal to me.


What is the perimeter of your castle? The entire property? Just the inside of your house? What if they were allowed to take the next step....come inside?

Doesn't it seem that if the police have to have a warrant to come on your property, shouldn't other government agencies at least announce themselves? I have no problem with them appraising my property. We all have to pay taxes. I want our goverment to announce itself before it comes onto my property.

I personally am not willing to allow just anybody from the government to traipse onto my land without permission. I am sure that others will think it is okay.

If you were to look out your bedroom window, into your back yard and there were two guys right outside the window in your bushes, would it be a deal of any size then? There have been over 50 burglaries, many daytime, in and around the Villages recently.

[SteveFromNY]

What is the perimeter of your castle? The entire property? Just the inside of your house? What if they were allowed to take the next step....come inside?

Doesn't it seem that if the police have to have a warrant to come on your property, shouldn't other government agencies at least announce themselves? I have no problem with them appraising my property. We all have to pay taxes. I want our goverment to announce itself before it comes onto my property.

I personally am not willing to allow just anybody from the government to traipse onto my land without permission. I am sure that others will think it is okay.

If you were to look out your bedroom window, into your back yard and there were two guys right outside the window in your bushes, would it be a deal of any size then? There have been over 50 burglaries, many daytime, in and around the Villages recently.


I don't think the police need a warrant to knock on my door and ask me questions. I've had it happen where a crime was committed nearby and they wanted to know if we'd seen anything. If they want to search my house in connection with a crime, than due process must be followed. I think it's entirely different for someone who's job it is to assess property to have access to that property. I'm thinking of them as people like meter readers who have an implicit right to enter my property. If they are peering in windows they are doing more than their job, and that should be dealt with accordingly. And it would be a big deal if they were burglars, but these guys weren't.
Out of curiosity, how would you propose this be done? Have them continue to return to the property until permission was granted? How many people would deny them this access? How would they deal with people who wouldn't answer their door?
I still think this is a mountain being made out of a mole hill. I don't agree with your statement they have permission to do whatever they want to do. They have permission to do their job.

[bsliny]

I Hope the burglars aren't reading this All they have to do now is get a clipboard
walk around and see if anybodies home

[graciegirl]

I don't think the police need a warrant to knock on my door and ask me questions. I've had it happen where a crime was committed nearby and they wanted to know if we'd seen anything. If they want to search my house in connection with a crime, than due process must be followed. I think it's entirely different for someone who's job it is to assess property to have access to that property. I'm thinking of them as people like meter readers who have an implicit right to enter my property. If they are peering in windows they are doing more than their job, and that should be dealt with accordingly. And it would be a big deal if they were burglars, but these guys weren't.
Out of curiosity, how would you propose this be done? Have them continue to return to the property until permission was granted? How many people would deny them this access? How would they deal with people who wouldn't answer their door?
I still think this is a mountain being made out of a mole hill. I don't agree with your statement they have permission to do whatever they want to do. They have permission to do their job.



:agree: :agree: :agree: I don't understand what is the issue. Two things we can be sure of are Death and Taxes. And the grim reaper and the tax appraiser will cometh.

[chuckinca]

Where I come from, entering a person's property without permission is trespassing and unlawful. Trespassing on the wrong property could lead to being shot. I am sure that there aren't many property assessors in California (or most other states) who sneak around back yards.


Trespass: 1 a: a violation of moral or social ethics : transgression; especially : sin b: an unwarranted infringement
2 a: an unlawful act committed on the person, property, or rights of another; especially : a wrongful entry on real property b: the legal action for injuries resulting from trespass

[tony]

Here's how it can get out of hand.

When my daughter was college age she was at home alone when she saw a man looking in the window. She was terrified because we live in the country and had no neighbors at the time.

She erred and called me at work instead of calling the police. Not thinking clearly myself I immediately headed home from work. When I got home I found a petrified daughter, who calmed down enough to explain that she thought the guy was in a country car.

I has a suspicion and went to visit the property assessor at the courthouse. I explained that he would not be welcome again without proper notice. He said the agent apparently erred, but that he may be back again without notice. I explained he would be injured if he looked in the window again. He was alarmed and said he was going to call the police. I invited him to go with me to the district attorney's office upstairs and that I would repeat the agent's infringement, and my promise. He declined.

I explained that if he wanted to examine my house again he must set up an appointment, or have a court order.

Then I went up to the district attorney alone and explained what transpired and how somebody could get hurt in the future.

The visits by the agent stopped even though before this incident they apparently had been occurring annually while all the others in the county were not visited at all.

I took a stand. And I didn't regret it. Later over a dinner the district attorney said he was appreciative I pointed out the agent's actions, and said he was reprimanded. He explained that I should not go around frightening the assessor, though.

Fair taxes are based on fair and timely inspection and assessment, but we don't have to completely relinquish our right to privacy and to unreasonable inspection.

This could have all been averted by the county with a telephone call or a postcard informing me of the approximate time of the visit, but he still would have no right to peer into the house. It could be dangerous.

[graciegirl]

O.K. Guys. Let the testosterone flow. LET'S start a fight or even shoot someone who is doing their job. Where I come from the meter reader and the tax appraiser are people who come and go. We don't ask them to make an appointment and we aren't offended and we don't feel defensive.

[tony]

Obviously Gracie doesn't mind people peering in her windows . . . if they are public servants.

[graciegirl]

Obviously Gracie doesn't mind people peering in her windows . . . if they are public servants.



Actually at my age It would be delightful. ;D

NO. That isn't the point. I feel that it was most unusual and certainly not right for "a public servant" to peer in someone's windows. But we weren't talking about that. I think to be offended, to react like it's some awful thing for a person to enter your property to do their work, which is appraising for taxes is a little over the top.

[chuckinca]

O.K. Guys. Let the testosterone flow. LET'S start a fight or even shoot someone who is doing their job. Where I come from the meter reader and the tax appraiser are people who come and go. We don't ask them to make an appointment and we aren't offended and we don't feel defensive.



GG:

Usually, meters are in the front of the property near walks or drives that are used by the general public and visitors.

Entering someone's backyard is a completely different issue and normally requires permission prior to entry. Without permission it is trespass and could, and often does, have unwanted consequences.

If the assessor's office needs to inspect the property, they should give written prior notice.

[gowens1]

Welcome to Florida. You can shoot a criminal, but don't shoot the tax man. And they will look in your windows, or if they can, enter your property. I have a rental property in Deltona, when we first bought it we remodeled the interior. The changes I had made showed up, with a letter from codes enforcement, so I asked how they knew. I was told they can check anything they want, and so can codes enforcement. And the worst part is they work together.

gary
Deltona, FL

[Talk Host]

Welcome to Florida. You can shoot a criminal, but don't shoot the tax man. And they will look in your windows, or if they can, enter your property. I have a rental property in Deltona, when we first bought it we remodeled the interior. The changes I had made showed up, with a letter from codes enforcement, so I asked how they knew. I was told they can check anything they want, and so can codes enforcement. And the worst part is they work together.

gary
Deltona, FL


terminus adquo

[Boomer]

This is another of my absolutely true stories. I swear.

Before we downsized to our geezer ranch style house, we lived on some acreage where we had built a new barn. We also had a swimming pool. One beautiful summer afternoon, I was entertaining several friends at one of those sangria sippin' girls only pool parties. We were all around age 50, give or take, at the time.

Well, we were having a great time when suddenly two really "old" guys (probably at least in their late 50's) came strolling right across the middle of the yard. They were carrying clipboards, of course.

I had backup so I called them over and asked them who in the heck they were.

"We're here to appraise the barn for property taxes," they answered practically in unison.

We invited them to swim with us and tried to ply them with sangria. But they were dedicated bureaucrats and would not be corrupted. But we did manage to at least chat them up a bit.

When their work there was done and they finally left, we laughed and said that maybe I got a deal on the barn tax. Oh yeah. We thought we were so darned cute. We were saying things like, "Hey, the legs are the last thing to go," and "Hey, they were way older than us even (right, uh huh) and everything is relative," and various other idiotic sangria soaked assessments of our perceived success with flirting with the tax guys.

Well, guess what. When the :edit: tax bill came, it was not even remotely a deal. Those tax guys we thought thought we were so utterly charming had assessed for TWO barns. I did not think I would ever get that mess straightened out at the courthouse.

The moral of the story: If you are going to flirt with the tax guy, make sure you still got it.

Boomer

[graciegirl]

This is another of my absolutely true stories. I swear.

Before we downsized to our geezer ranch style house, we lived on some acreage where we had built a new barn. We also had a swimming pool. One beautiful summer afternoon, I was entertaining several friends at one of those sangria sippin' girls only pool parties. We were all around age 50, give or take, at the time.

Well, we were having a great time when suddenly two really "old" guys (probably at least in their late 50's) came strolling right across the middle of the yard. They were carrying clipboards, of course.

I had backup so I called them over and asked them who in the heck they were.

"We're here to appraise the barn for property taxes," they answered practically in unison.

We invited them to swim with us and tried to ply them with sangria. But they were dedicated bureaucrats and would not be corrupted. But we did manage to at least chat them up a bit.

When their work there was done and they finally left, we laughed and said that maybe I got a deal on the barn tax. Oh yeah. We thought we were so darned cute. We were saying things like, "Hey, the legs are the last thing to go." and "Hey, they were way older than us even (right, uh huh) and everything is relative." and various other idiotic sangria soaked assessments of our perceived success with flirting with the tax guys.

Well, guess what. When the :edit: tax bill came, it was not even remotely a deal. Those tax guys we thought thought we were so utterly charming had assessed for TWO barns. I did not think I would ever get that mess straightened out at the courthouse.

The moral of the story: If you are going to flirt with the tax guy, make sure you still got it.

Boomer

Writing this down.

GracieGirl

[kit9240]

A written notice from the Tax Assessor's office should be sent out in advance letting home owners know that there will be tax assessors in their neighborhood the week of 5/5-9, 2008 to do a walk through inspection. They may or may not request to inspect the interior for rennovations/alterations. They should readily provide identification so no one is alarmed or concerned about strangers appearing on their property.

Boomer: Loved your story! I think there's a moral there! ;D

[Talk Host]

I spoke with an attorney friend of mine today and told him this story. His reply was, "They are the government, they can do anything they want."


BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR cold_cold

[mcelheny]

i got to get into that government job. There are quite a few windows i would like to look into...without getting arrested. ;D

[kerry]

what is the tax rate going to be

[Frangyomory]

When they did the last assessment here in Sumter County they knocked on my door and asked if they could look around the property. Of course, we live in a courtyard villa and have a privacy fence so maybe that was the only reason they asked permission. Plus, I have a beward of dog sign on my gate.

[The Great Fumar]

KERRY
It really depends on your window !!!

(I think thats what their saying)

[Rokinronda]

My husbands profession is to go on your property to do his job. We have done this type of work for several years and seldom have a problem. He wears his identification badge, carries a clipboard and a measuring device and rings your bell and knocks. He never enters gates or fenced yards. If a no trespass sign is posted you can be sure he heeds the warning, takes a photo and leaves. Insurance companies have the right to verify their risks. Please don't shoot him he is working!!

[Boomer]

My husbands profession is to go on your property to do his job...Insurance companies have the right to verify their risks. Please don't shoot him he is working!!


OK Ronda,

I won't shoot. And I promise I won't try to ply him with sangria either. Boy, did I learn my lesson.

Boomer

[Sgt Mac]

Hay is the Tax rate $26.00 per 1000 in TV? :read:

Sgt Mac

[captain1202]

Keep your drapes/blinds closed.

[Ooper]

Can anyone tell me what the appraisors do when they have to enter a courtyard villa and the owner has a lock on their gate.... do they bust it down or just just jump over it? ???

[Sidney Lanier]

Here in NYS we have a townwide property reassessment done about once every ten years, and while individual homeowners do not receive specific appointment times, we are ALL notified that the reassessment is taking place, that the inspectors will come onto our property, and they will officially identify themselves if the homeowners are at home. What's the big deal? I've never heard of any of these inspectors peering into windows, and a complaint would be warranted if one were seen doing so, but beyond these rarities which certainly can happen, these men and women are simply doing their jobs (which has nothing to do with how we feel about paying our property taxes...).

[eujaynia]

What is the perimeter of your castle? The entire property? Just the inside of your house? What if they were allowed to take the next step....come inside?

Doesn't it seem that if the police have to have a warrant to come on your property, shouldn't other government agencies at least announce themselves? I have no problem with them appraising my property. We all have to pay taxes. I want our goverment to announce itself before it comes onto my property.

I personally am not willing to allow just anybody from the government to traipse onto my land without permission. I am sure that others will think it is okay.

If you were to look out your bedroom window, into your back yard and there were two guys right outside the window in your bushes, would it be a deal of any size then? There have been over 50 burglaries, many daytime, in and around the Villages recently.


"Blurgary" was my first thought when I read the first post. Hmm... what a nice cover to peek in someone's windows to see if "it's worth the risk", huh? And for the benefit of the Appraiser's safety ... I'd announce myself if I were them! Some old codger may just shoot 'em between the eyes simply out of fear! ... OK, that's over the top, but you get my point, right? *grin*