Sneaky way of handling developer's recycling charge

[Frangyomory]

Check your North Sumter Utility Company bill this month! You will note that the $1.47 is no longer a single charge. It has been rolled into your trash charge. Used to pay $15.45 but now pay $16.92.

Is this the way the developer responds to our inquiries about charging for something that makes him money???

This absolutely sickens me!!!

Also heard that the developer received a large check from TECO which was supposed to go to certain homeowners who were billed in their closing costs for the gas meters on their homes.

How much more are we supposed to take from this family?????

I love the Villages but have seething feelings about the current people running the show. Mr. Schwartz was an honest man who cared about the people to whom he sold homes. What happened to that????

This is still the best place to live but any more of this sneaking around and some people are simply going to revolt!

[villages07]

Fran,

The extra charge for recycling, to be included in trash bills, was announced quite some time ago. No surprise to me. There does seem to be some debate about the cost and profit from recycling. Personally, the extra fee for recycling doesn't bother me. Trash and landfill costs continue to rise. Back in MD, I paid $103 per year for the privilege of taking my trash and recyclables to the dump. So $204 per year for curbside pickup, essentially 4 times a week (2 regular trash, 1 recycle, 1 lawn waste) is a pretty good deal. Like many others, I do notice my 'regular' trash is now very minimal.

As to the TECO payment, I would defer from commenting until more facts are known.

Yes, no doubt things have changed from the days of Harold Schwartz strolling the streets of OBG. We are no longer a sleepy town nestled amongst orange groves and cow pastures. Like it or not, the Villages is now a big city and that comes with the expenses, politics, and complexities to run such an operation. I view the Morse family as benevolent dictators. I truly believe they have some family pride in what they have built and have a genuine interest in seeing it live in perpetuity...the family legacy. But, they are also business folks, looking to make a profit from their risks and labors. I don't begrudge them that at all.

My greatest hope (and biggest fear) is that the Villages of 20 years from now is as beautiful, well run, and economical to live in as it is today.

[graciegirl]

Fran,

The extra charge for recycling, to be included in trash bills, was announced quite some time ago. No surprise to me. There does seem to be some debate about the cost and profit from recycling. Personally, the extra fee for recycling doesn't bother me. Trash and landfill costs continue to rise. Back in MD, I paid $103 per year for the privilege of taking my trash and recyclables to the dump. So $204 per year for curbside pickup, essentially 4 times a week (2 regular trash, 1 recycle, 1 lawn waste) is a pretty good deal. Like many others, I do notice my 'regular' trash is now very minimal.

As to the TECO payment, I would defer from commenting until more facts are known.

Yes, no doubt things have changed from the days of Harold Schwartz strolling the streets of OBG. We are no longer a sleepy town nestled amongst orange groves and cow pastures. Like it or not, the Villages is now a big city and that comes with the expenses, politics, and complexities to run such an operation. I view the Morse family as benevolent dictators. I truly believe they have some family pride in what they have built and have a genuine interest in seeing it live in perpetuity...the family legacy. But, they are also business folks, looking to make a profit from their risks and labors. I don't begrudge them that at all.

My greatest hope (and biggest fear) is that the Villages of 20 years from now is as beautiful, well run, and economical to live in as it is today.


Well said. As usual I am in awe of your ability to communicate and in sync with your views!
YOU are the nicest person !

[The Great Fumar]

VILLAGES07

Why is it all your communications sound like they comming from a control tower and I'm being cleared to taxi to 26right........

looking for blue lights fumar :dontknow: ;D ;D ;D

[Frangyomory]

My comment was not about the $1.47 but the fact that it suddenly is wrapped into our regular trash charge as though we will all forget that we are paying a fee for something that actually makes money and we are using non-recyclable plastic bags to do our recycling. Somehow all this bothers me.

Yes, I know we are not a sleepy little town anymore but I don't like having "benovolent dictators" running the show. Guess we have no choice and that's something else I don't like.

Fortunately, the Villages is still a wonderful place to live.

[ejp52]

There's always a choice.

[Muncle]

There's always a choice.


What a sensational comment, not specifically to this thread but to almost all of them. Can you set it up that this comment is automatically generated whenever there are more than 5 or so replies on a thread? People tend to forget that we are basically free agents who live here or are considering it of our own volition. The courts didn't sentence us here and we can leave.

There's always a choice.

[njgranny]

Let me politely take issue with "there's always a choice." I think a person has the right to air their grievances without being reminded that they could move elsewhere. That's a response that always comes up on our local Jersey BB. Just because a person has feelings about certain issues doesn't mean that they don't like the place they live.

[ejp52]

What a sensational comment, not specifically to this thread but to almost all of them. Can you set it up that this comment is automatically generated whenever there are more than 5 or so replies on a thread? People tend to forget that we are basically free agents who live here or are considering it of our own volition. The courts didn't sentence us here and we can leave.

There's always a choice.
Muncle for Prez. :bigthumbsup: :joke:

[Muncle]

I certainly agree that a person has the right to air their unhappiness and/or disagreement with anything. And my comments were certainly not aimed at Fran. I've disagreed with her and likely she with me a number of times on various issues. And though I do not know her, I perceive Fran as an individual who has looked at the positives and negatives of TV and determines it weighs heavily on the positive. Probably I would agree with her on far more than we would disagree.

Yes, everyone has a right to speak out against what they find wrong in our society. In fact, I believe we have a duty to do so. My concern is with those who find more negatives than positives, who seemingly live to complain. We've had several posters who rave about TV, except they want fences, statues, free plastic garbage contrainers, golf cart licenses and air bags, no visitor passes, increased visitor passes, no kids, more kids, increased gates, no gates. But they are still determined to move here and get the rules changed to fit their specific desires. People have to be reminded that TV is not for everyone. That does not make the person good or bad, nor does it make TV good or bad. People are different and have different interests, desires, and need. People have to be reminded that "There's always a choice."

And while I'm pontificating, when exactly did Gary Morse :edit: in everybody's soup? Mr. Schwartz has been canonized, primarily because he is dead, while Morse and the rest of the family are blamed for everything and credited with nothing. Yes, good old Harold used to walk the streets greeting everyone and undoubtedly knew everyone by name (kinda doubt it), but the reason he could do so was that Gary was in the office or at the construction sites working, making this place what it is today. Did he and the family get rich doing it? Hell yes, and they deserved it. I hope they make millions and millions and millions more. But The Developer is not responsible for everything one dislikes.

[chuckster]

Muncle absolutely the best statement yet concerning the morse family, etc and our individual choices. :agree: :agree:
I would prefer to say that if someone finds themselves so unhappy with present circumstances it might be time to make one of those choices. :) :)

[njgranny]

I am one of the people who would like to have a fence because of my dogs. However, I never said, or thought, that TV should change their rules because of my wishes. I will simply get a CYV, or one of the fenced ranchers.

I think people know they have a choice. I don't think they have to be reminded. I thought the purpose of the board was discussion.

There are things I don't like about my home town, but I'm not moving because of them. I'm moving because I'm tired of freezing my buns off all winter (and into the spring this year).

I really have a "thing" about telling people to move because they criticize things.

[SABRMnLgs]

While I am absolutely NOT all knowing, I still would like to figure this recycling thing out.
1) We have to buy the bags.
2) We have to sort the items.
3) We have to put these bags out.
4) We get charged for doing this.
5) When the items get picked up and turned into whatever, when do I get a return on items 1 and 4?

[Muncle]

While I am absolutely NOT all knowing, I still would like to figure this recycling thing out.
1) We have to buy the bags.
2) We have to sort the items.
3) We have to put these bags out.
4) We get charged for doing this.
5) When the items get picked up and turned into whatever, when do I get a return on items 1 and 4?


Well, you get rid of your trash and you make the world a better place in which to live. Now, don't you fell better? And I'm not all knowing either.

[ejp52]

I am one of the people who would like to have a fence because of my dogs. However, I never said, or thought, that TV should change their rules because of my wishes. I will simply get a CYV, or one of the fenced ranchers.

I think people know they have a choice. I don't think they have to be reminded. I thought the purpose of the board was discussion.

There are things I don't like about my home town, but I'm not moving because of them. I'm moving because I'm tired of freezing my buns off all winter (and into the spring this year).

I really have a "thing" about telling people to move because they criticize things.
I wasn't suggesting anyone move,I meant they can choose to recycle or not,I should have been more specific. The way I see it is I drag my trash and recycling out to the street and they pick it up,the small fee to recycle is worth it if it helps the landfills last longer.

[zcaveman]

All Fran was saying was that on our March bill, we had a Trash charge of $15.45 and a Recycling charge of $1.47. In April we had a Waste Services chargel of $16.92. They are hiding the recycling charge as part of the normal bill. For newbies this does not mean anything (unless they want to know about the recycling nuisance charge). For the rest of us we know it is a nuisance charge.

As for the "There's always a choice" that is a cop out. I have Republican buddies that try to feed me a line of :edit: about King Bush and Democrats. When I respond with reasonable answers, all I get is "OH". I live in TV because I like the life style of TV. That does not mean that I cannot carp about what I see as problems in TV.

There is no need to be hostile to people that respond to posts. Maybe you think it is fun to ridicule postees. All it does is stop them from posting. I personally do not respond to many posts because I can tell by the flavor of the posts that I am not on the "good" side and I don't want to spend time defending a simple statement. If I did, I would be close to Tal in posts. There is no reason to not respond tactfully and get your point across without :edit: the other postees off.

I am responding to this one because I feel strongly about the $1.47 nuisance charge.

And the beat goes on!!

[samhass]

Well said, zcaveman. :agree: :bigthumbsup:

[Frangyomory]

zcaveman, Thanks for the clarification! :agree: I know I have options but I don't have any option on whether I pay the $1.47 or not. I am forced to pay whether I recycle or not. Everywhere else, recycling is a profit center and it surely is for the developer. Why should be pay a stinking little nuisance fee when the developer is obviously making quite a bit of money on recycling?

I love the Villages and I have said this many times before. I don't want to live anywhere else. The people and the lifestyle are the best. The fly in the ointment is the way the developer shoves things down our throat and knows fully that we aren't going to move because we love this place!!!

[graciegirl]

You know Muncle, you would have been benched from the debate team on this one. Saying "THERE'S ALWAYS A CHOICE" is beneath your ability to communicate and just plain hurtful.

That said Muncle, I am still in awe of your quick wit, your articulate posts and most of the things you say here.

Even though we just purchased a house in Hadley, and we LOVE it there, I still think that my town of West Chester, Ohio has a better idea. Folks here can choose to recycle or not and pay for recycling or not.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I think that eventually, like all things in this wonderful country, the developer will have to pay more attention to things like fences, (which I personally don't like) and yard statues (which I loath in most cases) and allow villages where those things are possible or people will go where they build a different mousetrap. So far, this is the most wonderful place for retirement going, but, this land of opportunity is just that. The majority does rule but the minority still has a voice and they can and will choose.

[njgranny]

ejp52

I get it. I'm so hung up on people telling one to move if they complain on our local board.

In our town, I think we can be fined if we don't recycle. They just did go to an incentive program though. The plastic totes we use are coded, and we'll get points for how much we recycle. We've always done it anyway because we love our planet.

Peace to all.

Jan

[captain1202]

It would be interesting to know how much the waste people pay for getting rid of the recycled trash we send them. They must have to pay to get rid of it...why else would they charge? ;)

[chacam]

Read your Declaration of Restrictions.

Ours states that the the Developer reserves the right to require all Owners to participate in a curbside recycling program if and when one is instituted.

[Muncle]

First I want to say that there are a lot of people in this forum whose posts I often enjoy and many people for whom I've developed much respect for their opinions and reasoning, whether it agrees with mine or not. There are many with whom I'd really enjoy being friends. And there are, of course, some for whom I have absolutely no respect.

That said, much of what is spouted is pure, absolute BS. Let's get the "choice" hassle out of the way. I've tried to explain, obviously unsuccessfully, that I look upon a decision to live in TV as a conscious choice. Hopefully, I and others looked at the negatives and positives of living here and opted to relocate here. There were some issues that were unknown when I chose (luckily the trains don't affect me directly) and some I underestimated, but I had a pretty good grasp of the situation. I'd even been reading the POA bulletin for a year or so. But in the end, the positives won out. However, in discussing TV with friends in Northern VA where I lived, it was obvious that this would not be a good choice for all or even most, and for a variety of reasons. Did that make them wrong and me right or did it make them right and me wrong? Did it lessen any positive aspects of TV? No. Different people have different values, different desires, different needs, and they need to make choices to fit their situation. About a year after moving in, one of my neighbors announced they were moving. They explained that while they liked a lot about TV, they were moving closer to Orlando because they missed many of the attractions of the bigger city. Wonderful for them and our loss, because they were nice people. But, TV is not for everyone nor is everyone a person who should live here. Hopefully, people find this out before they go to the expense of a move. If not, hopefully they are not afraid or unable to correct the decision later.

Now to get to some particulars. I don't mean to pick on the recycling thread in particular as this applies across the board, but this one's convenient. First we have the posts that anyone who's lived in Florida for any length of time truly hates: "Why, back home we did it this way." "Up north, our town made a big profit from recycling." "My hometown gave us free plastic trash bins." The reaction: "So what!" You're not back home, up north, or in your old hometown. You don't know the landfill situation or the market for the various recyclables. You don't know the overlapping laws of 3 counties and at least one municipality. You don't know the particulars of the various waste management contracts in place. But instead of finding the facts, many people chose to bitch here. Doesn't solve a thing, but it gets it off your chest. There is another recourse. You could contact by phone, or even better by mail or email, the responsible organization and ask them. Not always, but quite often, they will reply. If you get no response or if it's unsatisfactory, go over their heads. Contact Janet Tutt or Gary Morse. If necessary, let them know that you plan to post their reply on TOTV with it's 4300 members, both residents and prospective buyers. That just might get you some answers your want a bit faster than pitching a hissy fit here.

And lastly, no you should not blindly accept something that you feel is wrong simply because "it's a rule." But please, find out what the situation truly is and why it is treated the way it is. Sometimes, situations exist simply because no one looked at it critically. Other times, there are very valid if not obvious reasons. Try to find out before you go off the deep end.

There's always a choice.

[chuckster]

once again and this is getting repetitious, I agree with muncle's discussion of this over talked about topic. :agree: :agree:

[JohnnyM]

Once again Muncle hits a home run. When Barbara and I visited in January and then decided to move to TV, we HAD A CHOICE and made it. We did not ask what the monthly trash bill would be. We knew in our minds to set monthly expenditures and add $20.00 to each just to be conservative. If we were told that the monthly trash cost would be $16.92, I figured in $36.92 just to be sure. I did this with all the monthly expenses we were told we would probably face. We felt we could swing it budget wise and made our decision. I am so tired about hearing people bemoan the Morse family and how they are trying to pilfer every penny they can from the poor souls that bought homes here. It makes me feel bad about being a homeowner in TV. I don't want to feel bad about being a homeowner in TV I want to feel good and be happy and proud about it. We made the choice to move to TV and we will give every benefit of the doubt to TV unless things are proven to be otherwise. TV is paradise now and will be until the day I die and $1.47 recycle charge rolled into the trash charge is not going to make me change my mind because I MADE MY CHOICE. If you can't be a loyal homeowner, what's the sense of living here in the first place. I like the positives of TV.

[njgranny]

Muncle,

Are you aiming at me? Sorry, if the folks in Florida hate to hear how things are done in one's home town. I was simply replying to someone else about how it works here.

The last thing I'm concerned about with TV is recycling.

I didn't mean any harm.

Jan

[Russ_Boston]

Let me get this straight - TVers pay $16.92 per month for trash which is picked up twice per week, once for recycles and once for yard waste? That's $203.04 per year if my calculator is accurate.

Where can i sign up? I pay almost $40 per month here in MA for private pickup with Waste Management (no town pickup available). That is for once per week trash and once every other week recycle with no yard waste disposal available.

Fran (and others) - Please readjust your expectations. Do you know what the price of gas and labor and landfill permits are now? I can't believe that the cost is less than $20 per month. I highly doubt if 'the family' makes much (if anything) on this service.

Help me out - Am I missing something here?

[njgranny]

I guess we're lucky here (except that NJ has terrible taxes for everything else), but we don't pay a separate trash fee. We get one pick-up a week, recyclables and regular trash, leaves, and whatever. We just cleaned out our shed and had the whole front filled with stuff. By the time the trash collectors came today, most of it had been picked up by other people wanting whatever it was.

It's interesting to me to hear how things are done in other parts of the country.

[Sidney Lanier]

In our town in NY there is no municipal pickup. If one wishes, one can contract with a private organization to pick up trash once a week and recyclables once every two weeks and pay, I believe, about $40/month for the privilege. There is no brush pickup; residents are on their own for that. We are fortunate that our son has a business and a dumpster in the next town and happily helps out "Ma & Pa" by relieving us of our trash and recyclables. BTW, because he's a business, he pays only minimally more for his dumpster than residences pay. Here in TV, whether it's $15.45, or it's $16.92 including $1.47 for recycling costs per month, it's a bargain!