Professor Gruber

[Challenger]

Would anyone be pleased to have their children in the academic care of Professor Gruber? Is this the type of ethics that permeate our finest"Universities"?

[billethkid]

Would anyone be pleased to have their children in the academic care of Professor Gruber? Is this the type of ethics that permeate our finest"Universities"?

Also consider the same types are in all the grades on the way to those finest schools.

[tomwed]

He looks like Al Bundy to me.

[gomoho]

So was he lying then or is he lying now???

[dbussone]

So was he lying then or is he lying now???


Or both, most likely.

[janmcn]

Wasn't Gruber Mitt Romney's chief lieutenant when it came to writing Romneycare?

[billethkid]

Wasn't Gruber Mitt Romney's chief lieutenant when it came to writing Romneycare?

Maybe. Maybe he didn't have to lie then like he has since counseling Obama and calling the voters stupid!

[cquick]

this sounds like a political discussion, better to be on a different forum

[sunnyatlast]

It's Gruber's lack of ethics and deceit, not his economic and actuarial skills in calculating the dollars and where they'd have to be gotten and funneled once the ACA was enacted by a "tortured" process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G790p0LcgbI

.....

[janmcn]

It's Gruber's lack of ethics and deceit, not his economic and actuarial skills in calculating the dollars and where they'd have to be gotten and funneled once the ACA was enacted by a "tortured" process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G790p0LcgbI

.....


Why are we still discussing the ACA? Hasn't that dastardly law been repealed? Congress has voted over 55 times to repeal, so why is it still around?

By early next month, this law will be history and we can go back to those heady days when insurance companies could deny coverage if a person had a pre-existing condition, drop your coverage if you got sick, or (my personal favorite) charge women more for the same coverage as men.

[Rags123]

Wasn't Gruber Mitt Romney's chief lieutenant when it came to writing Romneycare?

Not sure what this has to do with the current discussion.

Can you explain how this is relative ?

He told an untruth (either once or twice)...does not matter what about. Who cares where he worked before !!!

[sunnyatlast]

Why are we still discussing the ACA? Hasn't that dastardly law been repealed? Congress has voted over 55 times to repeal, so why is it still around?

By early next month, this law will be history and we can go back to those heady days when insurance companies could deny coverage if a person had a pre-existing condition, drop your coverage if you got sick, or (my personal favorite) charge women more for the same coverage as men.

Gruber's comments on how they designed the cost analyses and language of ACA "in a tortured way" using "lack of transparency as a huge political advantage" by exploiting "the stupidity of the American voters" is the subject.

It's seen and heard straight from the horse's mouth in the video link I posted earlier in the thread.

[Rags123]

Why are we still discussing the ACA? Hasn't that dastardly law been repealed? Congress has voted over 55 times to repeal, so why is it still around?

By early next month, this law will be history and we can go back to those heady days when insurance companies could deny coverage if a person had a pre-existing condition, drop your coverage if you got sick, or (my personal favorite) charge women more for the same coverage as men.

Perhaps because it is not 100% implemented as of yet. I think it is 2016 when the companies start paying more taxes.....this is going to be rolling out for awhile yet.

[TNLAKEPANDA]

This all makes me SICK

[Challenger]

It's Gruber's lack of ethics and deceit, not his economic and actuarial skills in calculating the dollars and where they'd have to be gotten and funneled once the ACA was enacted by a "tortured" process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G790p0LcgbI

.....

AGREED. Many really intelligent, capable people lack , what is usually refered to as "good character"

[TNLAKEPANDA]

I am pretty sure he was TOLD what to say if you know what I mean. If you don't you many be stupid. LOL

[Indydealmaker]

I am pretty sure he was TOLD what to say if you know what I mean. If you don't you many be stupid. LOL

I probably have not read everything he has said in the past, but from what I have heard, he really did not lie as much as he did agree to package up and sell the party line. He was given a job, paid a lot of money and he certainly did help to con everybody. I would bet that he rationalized that if he did not do the job, somebody would.

[Tennisnut]

I don't think the guy has much credibility, therefore, I would not believe anything he had to say last year, this year or next year. I do know that my HMO health care premiums are decreasing by 10% next month probably due to the fact more people are covered by insurance who are transported to the emergency room so I don't have to pay for their health care. That is the bottom line for me.

[CFrance]

I don't think the guy has much credibility, therefore, I would not believe anything he had to say last year, this year or next year. I do know that my HMO health care premiums are decreasing by 10% next month probably due to the fact more people are covered by insurance who are transported to the emergency room so I don't have to pay for their health care. That is the bottom line for me.
And 6.9 million people have health care who didn't have it before. Bottom line is everyone was paying for the health care of those 6.9 million people through increased insurance and hospital costs.

And pre-existing conditions are no longer an issue. (They were with me.) And your kids are covered longer, saving you many health insurance dollars while they're still in college. (Money we paid for our kids).

This will take a while, but it will end up being as good a deal as Medicare, which many also hated at the time. It would take a lot less time if the insurance companies had not lobbied against the single payer system.

We NEED to reform health care and medical costs in this country. This is a start.

[gomoho]

So I guess you're ok we were pretty much lied to in order for this to happen? Watch for the Supreme Court ruling on the exchanges. Gruber pretty much made the argument for this issue when he admitted today the exchanges were only meant for those buying into the fed plan. This whole thing may unravel as a result of that remark. I'm glad everyone is happy that so many are benefiting from this - I on the other hand have friends who have been hurt very badly by this redistribution of wealth.

[Steve & Deanna]

I'm glad that we weren't stupid. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[TNLAKEPANDA]

We do need healthcare reform however the ACA is a scam. Some speak of the 6+million who now have healthcare but when you look at the amount of money that was wasted in this venture the Govt could have paid for insurance for all poor uninsured and could have supplemented those in need like people with pre-existing conditions many many times over. This is a money pit of epic proportions !

[janmcn]

So I guess you're ok we were pretty much lied to in order for this to happen? Watch for the Supreme Court ruling on the exchanges. Gruber pretty much made the argument for this issue when he admitted today the exchanges were only meant for those buying into the fed plan. This whole thing may unravel as a result of that remark. I'm glad everyone is happy that so many are benefiting from this - I on the other hand have friends who have been hurt very badly by this redistribution of wealth.

You are correct about the Supreme Court ruling which could come down next spring. Depending on how they rule, all states such as Florida, Georgia, and Texas (BTW the three states with the highest number of uninsured) will lose their federal subsidies because they never set up their own exchanges.

It seems that residents of those states will be penalized because their governors refused to set up exchanges, while states which set up their exchanges will continue to have subsidized health care.

[Rags123]

And 6.9 million people have health care who didn't have it before. Bottom line is everyone was paying for the health care of those 6.9 million people through increased insurance and hospital costs.

And pre-existing conditions are no longer an issue. (They were with me.) And your kids are covered longer, saving you many health insurance dollars while they're still in college. (Money we paid for our kids).

This will take a while, but it will end up being as good a deal as Medicare, which many also hated at the time. It would take a lot less time if the insurance companies had not lobbied against the single payer system.

We NEED to reform health care and medical costs in this country. This is a start.

I am one who might agree with you that SOMETHING was needed to be done, and there are many many parts of this bill that I can support with vigor.

I will never get over how it was done. To pass a bill with such huge financial impact on this country, and do it with such a total lack of any effort to make it the best it could be. To not even attempt to make it bi partisan, when both parties wanted basically all the things you are touting. And most of all, even with control of both houses, to have the need to adjust the rules of the senate to pass it. Well, that will be a bad taste in mouth for a long long time.

I also am concerned about the large deductibles that I am told go with this AND a bit worried about when the bill is actually 100% in place. When small business starts getting hit....well, I guess I will admit watching the backroom deals, and there were PLENTY....MUCHO....and having our President say "oops" when confronted with his OFTEN repeated promise about the transparency (remember the CSPAN coverage he promised over and over during the campaign). It was a windfall for the insurance industry and two states that were of the same party but against this bill until given things. That might work on a small bill of some kind but this was payola in a grand scale.

This bill, more than anything....and I do not mean those things that helped people, but the shenanigans and backroom stuff and changing of the rules WITH NO EFFORT to get anyone on board is what poisoned me and I think most to what is going on in Washington because that sneaky, smug attitude continued. I am sorry if that is bitter, but that is how I feel. I will never forgive what a few people did by lying and deciet to this country and then continued within the senate for years and blamed everybody but themselves.

It served a warning and one that everyone has gotten about what was going to happen.

You are correct.....a bill was needed, and maybe we would still be talking had this not occurred. I do not know. I know politics, and I know that deals are made but this was a punch in the stomach of everyone in this country...the way it was done and I do not think that most will get over it very easily.

This bill has poisoned the well for a long time. And most think it is because opponents do not want the health care provided.....NOT SO....it is the attitude and deception used that is what turns people off. Be a long time before this country gets right with this, if ever.

[Sandtrap328]

I am one who might agree with you that SOMETHING was needed to be done, and there are many many parts of this bill that I can support with vigor.

I will never get over how it was done. To pass a bill with such huge financial impact on this country, and do it with such a total lack of any effort to make it the best it could be. To not even attempt to make it bi partisan, when both parties wanted basically all the things you are touting. And most of all, even with control of both houses, to have the need to adjust the rules of the senate to pass it. Well, that will be a bad taste in mouth for a long long time.

I also am concerned about the large deductibles that I am told go with this AND a bit worried about when the bill is actually 100% in place.

This bill, more than anything....and I do not mean those things that helped people, but the shenanigans and backroom stuff and changing of the rules WITH NO EFFORT to get anyone on board is what poisoned me and I think most to what is going on in Washington because that sneaky, smug attitude continued. I am sorry if that is bitter, but that is how I feel. I will never forgive what a few people did by lying and deciet to this country and then continued within the senate for years and blamed everybody but themselves.

It served a warning and one that everyone has gotten about what was going to happen.

You are correct.....a bill was needed, and maybe we would still be talking had this not occurred. I do not know. I know politics, and I know that deals are made but this was a punch in the stomach of everyone in this country...the way it was done and I do not think that most will get over it very easily.

This bill has poisoned the well for a long time. And most think it is because opponents do not want the health care provided.....NOT SO....it is the attitude and deception used that is what turns people off. Be a long time before this country gets right with this, if ever.

So, a major part of whats wrong with the Affordable Care Act are the dealings that got it into place? You are saying there are parts of it that have helped people, if I read this correctly

I think that CFrance was absolutely correct in her assessment of the ACA.

By the way, the Affordable Care Act is not a "bill". It was a bill until it was signed into law. It is now a law.

[JB in TV]

Yes, perhaps 6+ million now have "health care", but at what level? EXTREMELY high deductables will prevent most from ever seeing their docs for the many usual ailments.

In my case, due to a weird income year, I have a low premium, but very high deductible and virtually no RX coverage until a high RX deductible is paid. I can afford it but many of those 6+ million that is often stated don't have that ability and will miss out on the health care and prescriptions needed that is so often said they now have.

[Rags123]

Yes, perhaps 6+ million now have "health care", but at what level? EXTREMELY high deductables will prevent most from ever seeing their docs for the many usual ailments.

In my case, due to a weird income year, I have a low premium, but very high deductible and virtually no RX coverage until a high RX deductible is paid. I can afford it but many of those 6+ million that is often stated don't have that ability and will miss out on the health care and prescriptions needed that is so often said they now have.


I got you. I mentioned the high deductibles and the future implementation of this bill in the next two years, but got "slapped" down with the usual snide comments which is what troubles me.

[JP]

Yes the ACA is now a law but laws can be changed and eliminated...it happens all the time.

The ACA was passed using deceptive practices by all involved---both paid advisors and politicians. If they had said what they knew to be true and what many people are now finding out, this "law" would never have passed.

Our country needs national health insurance/care but not this pile of baloney.

[sunnyatlast]

New, high deductibles are causing patients to avoid going to the dr. for preventative or other routine care because they simply do not have the cash after paying their new, higher premiums.

"Deductibles for the most popular health plans sold through the new marketplaces are higher than those commonly found in employer-sponsored health plans, according to Margaret A. Nowak, the research director of Breakaway Policy Strategies, a health care consulting company. A survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that the average deductible for individual coverage in employer-sponsored plans was $1,217 this year.

In comparison, the average deductible for a bronze plan on the exchange — the least expensive coverage — was $5,081 for an individual and $10,386 for a family, according to HealthPocket, a consulting firm. Silver plans, which were the most popular option this year, had average deductibles of $2,907 for an individual and $6,078 for a family....."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/unable-to-meet-the-deductible-or-the-doctor.html?src=twr

.......

[JB in TV]

New, high deductibles are causing patients to avoid going to the dr. for preventative or other routine care because they simply do not have the cash after paying their new, higher premiums.

"Deductibles for the most popular health plans sold through the new marketplaces are higher than those commonly found in employer-sponsored health plans, according to Margaret A. Nowak, the research director of Breakaway Policy Strategies, a health care consulting company. A survey by the Kaiser Family Foundation found that the average deductible for individual coverage in employer-sponsored plans was $1,217 this year.

In comparison, the average deductible for a bronze plan on the exchange — the least expensive coverage — was $5,081 for an individual and $10,386 for a family, according to HealthPocket, a consulting firm. Silver plans, which were the most popular option this year, had average deductibles of $2,907 for an individual and $6,078 for a family....."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/unable-to-meet-the-deductible-or-the-doctor.html?src=twr

.......

sunny, you said it much better than I did. Thanks!

[Tennisnut]

Fortunately, the stock market indicates that health care is one of the best performing sectors over the last three years. JNGLX is up with an annualized yield of 37.5 % over the last three years. Sound like healthcare is doing well with all these ACA requirements.

[Madelaine Amee]

And 6.9 million people have health care who didn't have it before. Bottom line is everyone was paying for the health care of those 6.9 million people through increased insurance and hospital costs.

And pre-existing conditions are no longer an issue. (They were with me.) And your kids are covered longer, saving you many health insurance dollars while they're still in college. (Money we paid for our kids).

This will take a while, but it will end up being as good a deal as Medicare, which many also hated at the time. It would take a lot less time if the insurance companies had not lobbied against the single payer system.

We NEED to reform health care and medical costs in this country. This is a start.

Excellent, common sense post CF.

[gomoho]

What confuses me is if these newly insured people couldn't afford insurance before how does this help them now if they need to meet a deductible before they are covered by their new free insurance??? Other than a routine physical has to be paid out of pocket till you meet your deductible so how does this help them?

[Challenger]

Would anyone be pleased to have their children in the academic care of Professor Gruber? Is this the type of ethics that permeate our finest"Universities"?

This was my post to originate this thread. Not a discussion about ACA.

[Rags123]

Fortunately, the stock market indicates that health care is one of the best performing sectors over the last three years. JNGLX is up with an annualized yield of 37.5 % over the last three years. Sound like healthcare is doing well with all these ACA requirements.

You are correct in what you say. The back room deals made with the insurance industry were a boon to the healthcare industry.

Shortly after the law was signed, the Roosevelt Institute had this to say about the law and that industry; Roosevelt is a liberal think tank...

"The healthcare legislation is important politically since President Obama now looks suddenly like a “winner”. But will it actually achieve the objective of improving the nation’s health care? Yes, more people will get INSURANCE. Will they actually get more health care paid for?

Not necessarily. We’ve had a bailout for bankers and now the principle seems to be extended to the insurance industry."

Obamacare: A Health Insurance Subsidy, Not Health Care Reform | Roosevelt Institute (http://rooseveltinstitute.org/new-roosevelt/obamacare-health-insurance-subsidy-not-health-care-reform)

I suggest all read this not to temper the excitement shown here BEFORE the law has been completely rolled out, but to simply inform.

But you are right........the deal made with the insurance companies made some rich men in that industry

[Rags123]

This is relative to my last post and is posted with all due respect to those who have fallen in love with this law for very good reasons that I do not dispute but points out the problems with laws that are jammed through by manipulation.

This bill is not even done rolling out and will not be rolled out completely for about two years. As many have said, on TOTV and otherwise, the financial implications of this law are very seldom talked about....

"The nearly $1.1-trillion spending bill released late Tuesday by House lawmakers targets government payments to health insurance companies under ObamaCare that critics have decried as an industry "bailout."

The language, buried deep in the 1,603-page bill, is a victory for conservative opponents of the healthcare law. It would prevent new government funds from flowing to ObamaCare's so-called risk corridors, a three-year program established to subsidize insurer losses in order to keep premiums stable."

Funding bill targets O-Care insurer subsidies | TheHill (http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/226604-cromnibus-targets-o-care-insurer-payments)

[Rags123]

In addition and not sure everyone is aware of this but part of the funding for this law is coming from interest on student loans...

" Affordable Care Act is set to cost students enrolled in the government’s loan program $8.7 billion in extra interest over the next decade, according to a report published by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

If savings were kept inside the loan program, instead of transferred to Obamacare, as some Republican senators are suggesting, they could allow the Department of Education to lower student interest rates to 5.3 percent from 6.3 percent, according to the CBO."

CBO: Feds siphoning billions from student loan program to fund Obamacare (http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=4817)

This is not something you hear much about and how much of this cost is being paid by college students is subject to an accounting discussion.

I offer this link which is the letter from the CBO to Speaker Pelosi.

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11379/amendreconprop.pdf

All of this fits under the lack of transperancy in this law. I simply hope that something can be done before it is rolled out totally. I am afraid of the impact on small business as that part has yet to come.

[TexaninVA]

So, a major part of whats wrong with the Affordable Care Act are the dealings that got it into place? You are saying there are parts of it that have helped people, if I read this correctly

I think that CFrance was absolutely correct in her assessment of the ACA.

By the way, the Affordable Care Act is not a "bill". It was a bill until it was signed into law. It is now a law.


My take on what Rags said is the corrupt and disheartening process by which the bill was passed into law soured many of us. It's like ... are you guys kidding? It was done via parliamentary tricks and the obfuscations of the type Gruber has come to personify. There were other ways to solve the problem instead of this approach.

This is supposed to be a democracy (well, actually a republic) where we compromise and work things out ... vs stuffing it down the other party's throat via raw political power. This is why it still rankles over half the population.

[jbdlfan]

By early next month, this law will be history and we can go back to those heady days when insurance companies could deny coverage if a person had a pre-existing condition, drop your coverage if you got sick, or (my personal favorite) charge women more for the same coverage as men.[/QUOTE]

I'm assuming you are aware that insurance companies are "for profit" corporations. They are in the business to make money. You may not like that fact , but it is a fact. Curious as to why an insurance company WOULDN'T charge a woman more for insurance than a man? Higher risk for the company normally will result in higher premiums. That's how insurance works. I suppose my car insurance on my new SUV should be the same as a guy driving a 1982 Chevette?

[Chi-Town]

Jonathan Gruber's apology:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wdo4cWQg0Hs

[TexaninVA]

This was my post to originate this thread. Not a discussion about ACA.

Ok, thanks for the reminder. No point in going into ACA again.

However, on the topic of Professor Gruber, I would like to thank him for adding at least two new word to our language: to Gruber and Gruberish. This is helpful as we can be more alert to snide, elitist shenanigans of this type in the future.

Gruber verb groo-burr

: To tell a lie deliberately with the intent of misleading.

: To misinform people based on the belief that they are too stupid to understand the wisdom of your position.

example: To conceal the truth about major legislation, it was necessary to gruber the entire nation.

noun

: A calculated mistruth intended to deceive listeners

example: The explanation given in favor of the proposed bill was one huge gruber from one end to the other.


Gruberish noun groo-burr-esh

: Any bewildering deluge of falsehoods designed to confound an audience based on the speaker’s awareness that the truth must be concealed by any means necessary.


example: A preposterous mountain of gruberish was put forth intended to hide the fact that the entire nation had been grubered about a major piece of legislation.

[Rags123]

This was my post to originate this thread. Not a discussion about ACA.

I apologize if I strayed but Gruber alluded to the deception and our stupidity and he was correct, and thus my posts to point out how correct he was.

Directly to your thread....my bet is that they will line up to take his class ! Just a hunch !