Interrogation Study; $40 million; questionable value?

[billethkid]

After reading the summary in this morning's paper I question the following:

I would most certainly like to know the major expenditure categories that amount to $40 million?

The summary itself is very redundant in it's presentation of items; why?

If this report is going to do more harm than good in the world, what was the purpose and intent of allowing $40 million to be spent and why is it being released to the general population of the world?

How can anyone present instances when enhanced techniques being used when the same information was available elsewhere? Should the interrogators have taken years to reach the same conclusion?

Other than political positioning and media fodder, what possible good comes from the $40 million investment.

Does anybody have any real understanding of what it takes to spend $40 million and who was the check book keeper.

The only conclusions based on limited reading of the findings I can reach are:

so what?
$40 million uncontrolled boon doggle!
The immediate benefits have a further negative effect of the USA in the world (so they say). And USA operatives around the world are put in danger.
Another political/media driven frenzy taking our eye off the USA's real problems at home and around the world.
Due consideration of the source is an absolute neccessity!

It is possible to discuss this study without it being turned into a political tit for tat, hit and run dialogue!

[graciegirl]

I have thought about this and thought about this and thought about this.

War is hell. I would ask my Uncles about being in the European theatre during the second world war and that is what they would say.. AND that is all they would say. One was involved with releasing people from the concentration camps. He never went to church again. We know that unspeakable things happen. We are shown the beheadings of OUR people in this day and age.

I have thought about the last moments of the victims in the twin towers. I have the skill to create them here for you with words but I will not.

Guantanamo was a hideous and realistic result of war. I do not any longer respect Diane Feinstein. I do not know why she released this report. I hope to God it wasn't political.

[Chi-Town]

How can anyone present instances when enhanced techniques being used when the same information was available elsewhere? Should the interrogators have taken years to reach the same conclusion?

Calling torture enhanced interrogation is like calling rape enhanced dating.

[graciegirl]

Calling torture enhanced interrogation is like calling rape enhanced dating.


I think that is just...............what I expected.

[billethkid]

Calling torture enhanced interrogation is like calling rape enhanced dating.

Not at all. You and most of us have an understanding of what exactly constitutes rape.

There are very few who understand what exactly constitutes torture and less to none comprehend what enhanced interrogation even means.

And who and where was it stated that torture had anything to do with enhanced interrogation?

The use of rape is what I call a lateral arabesque....nothing to do with the subject but throw it in for distraction!!!

[alwann]

Money aside, I get acid reflux just from the hypocrisy of the matter. I've never read the Articles of War. Neither have Islamic State, al-Qaeda, et al, I'm certain. But apparently it is okay to kill a terrorist coming at you with a bomb strapped to his chest. You just can't beat him up to get details about his plans. So, now we welcome home the young men and women who put their lives on the line but scorn those who are working to find a strategic end to the fighting. During the American Revolution, the British generals were aghast that the militia shot at them from behind trees. How uncouth! Hasn't history taught us anything?

[l2ridehd]

Just one more of many examples of the media and left wing politicians doing what ever they can to make this country the laughing stock of the world while trying to destroy us.

Most of the world is looking at as many details of this report as available in order to enhance their own interrogation capabilities. And will use this as an excuse to torture our war fighters even more when captured.

Diane Fienstein should be arrested and tried as a traitor. In most countries she would be.

[Chi-Town]

Not at all. You and most of us have an understanding of what exactly constitutes rape.

There are very few who understand what exactly constitutes torture and less to none comprehend what enhanced interrogation even means.

And who and where was it stated that torture had anything to do with enhanced interrogation?

The use of rape is what I call a lateral arabesque....nothing to do with the subject but throw it in for distraction!!!

The Gestapo used a term for torture, "Verscharfte Vernehmung". Translation..."Enhanced Interrogation". So they must have figured it out.

I have heard the term lateral arabesque. I thought it was a human resources term.

[tedquick]

Hasn't history taught us anything?

Oh, the lessons are there, they are just denied and ignored by those whose agendas cannot tolerate the truth.

[tedquick]

Two scenarios: you innocently go to work one day looking forward to all that life has to offer. What you were offered that day was a choice of either burning to death or jumping to your death!! (Thank you, krazorbackfan for the needed reminder of what actually happened. Too many like to forget that fact).

The other scenario: you purposely and purposefully masterminded the Twin Towers murders in addition to many other plans to “kill the infidels”. You were caught and now must face a week of no sleep, loud music, water boarding or whatever, but at the end of which you are still alive. During your interrogation you provide information that has saved the lives of many others. (And many *have* been saved because of those interrogations, irrespective of those who claim otherwise).

So, in one you are completely innocent. In the other you are the murderer, terrorist, the worst of the worst, yet you were submitted to some aggressive questioning, but are alive at the end of the “ordeal” and have provided information that will save the lives of many others.

So where is the problem?

[tedquick]

!!!!

[gomoho]

Personally when I think about 9/11 I have no problem with the techniques that were used. Like Gracie said "war is hell" and they wanted war so there you go.

I believe that was a complete and total partisan waste of money.

[Serenoa]

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) is bucking much of his party and coming to the defense of a Senate Intelligence Committee report on the CIA’s controversial interrogation tactics.

“It’s a thorough study of practices that I believe not only failed their purpose to secure actionable intelligence... but actually damaged our security interests as well as our reputation as a force for good in the world,” McCain said in a speech on the Senate floor shortly after the report was released.
“I believe the American people have a right — indeed, a responsibility — to know what was done in their name, how these practices did or did not serve their interests and how they comported our most important values,” he said.

McCain, who was kept as a prisoner of war for five years during the Vietnam War, has been one of the most vocal critics of waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods used during former President George W. Bush’s administration.

McCain comes to defense of CIA critics (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mccain-comes-to-defense-of-cia-critics/ar-BBgyuFV?ocid=ansHill11)



So.....could any of you who are here defending Bush & Cheney, torture (enhanced interrogation or whatever you prefer to call it) & the benefits of it that you claim look Sen. McCain in the eye & tell him he's wrong? I really doubt it.

[TexaninVA]

Releasing the one-side report of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques is incredibly harmful to America’s safety. Here’s some thoughts:

• I don’t care what one calls these EIT methods. The emotionalists love to call it “torture” and that’s where they stop thinking about it. Call it whatever you want.

• However, in the real world it is UNDENIABLE that these methods produced useful intelligence that prevented attacks and saved lives. The report authors know they have to say that as a prelude to producing the report.

• Jose Rodriquez served as the CIA’s Deputy Director for Operations … in other words, the nation’s chief human intelligence spy. He, and various other former Directors CIA from both administrations have said valuable intel was obtained. This following story is from the Washington Post.Today (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/todays-cia-critics-once-urged-the-agency-to-do-anything-to-fight-al-qaeda/2014/12/05/ac418da2-7bda-11e4-84d4-7c896b90abdc_story.html)

• I personally know for a fact the we obtained incredibly useful intel from using EIT

• The Senate staffers did not talk to any Agency operational people, by design. They simply relied on reading classified cables (i.e. basically a form of email)

• The elected leaders of both parties were briefed multiple times on the EIT and usually urged the agency to “do more”

• I remember the pathetic TV scene right after 9/11, with the Pentagon still smoldering, where the entire Congress stood on the steps of the US Capitol, holding hands and singing together … happy that their lives had been spared. How quickly the memories fade.

• The apparent motivation of this report is to give the issuers the ability to say they didn’t know about EIT … that is clearly not the case.

• Releasing the report inflicts terrible damage on our intelligence partners overseas. They will not trust us in the future, for good reason, and thus not want to work with us which means … less intelligence about attacks.

• The people who wrote it are largely armchair quarterbacks and rear echelon commandoes who wouldn’t know how to counter a terror threat if their lives depended on it, which ironically it does.

• The truly idiotic part of this is Washington DC has always been “the number 1” target. The risk level just went up long term, and the authors have cleverly placed themselves and the city at greater risk of terror attack. Nice move … and who knows how karma works in this instance?

• Releasing the report raises the risk levels to all Americans, and has been so acknowledged. What kind of a fool does this in “war?” You can’t be serious about winning a war and still do something like this.

• Claims that releasing this report shows how wonderful America is etc … are totally bogus. The only time we see “America is exceptional” from the people that wrote the report is seemingly when it hurts the country they claim to admire

• When all is said and done, three high level terrorist including KSM, the planner of the 9/11 attacks, were water boarded. Big deal! My question is … why has he not yet been executed? There is no doubt to his guilt. Yet justice is mocked because this guy still lives and is no doubt laughing his posterior off at this report. It confirms what the Islamist enemy has always said … i.e. the US is soft and not serious, and thus not to be feared. Weakness is provocative and thus invites more, not less, attacks.

• What is the difference between a waterboarded terrorist and one who has been blown to smithereens by a drone? Answer the former is still alive and the latter is dead. Also, the former provides intel of varying types whereas the latter does not. How smart a strategy is this?

• Why is droning someone to death ok but not extracting intel? These guys are TRAINED to resist interrogation and without EIT they simply won’t talk. I don’t follow the consistency of the logic … because there isn’t any.

• IMHO most intelligence officers on duty today around the world will predictably ease off because, who knows, some future congress may come after them even though the current one has said it’s ok to kill using drones (which I also support btw if they can’t capture the guy for intel … that should always be the first priority). Intel Officers will become more risk averse and thus less effective. Does this make us safer? Obviously no? Do you think the guys in the field believe that those of us back here at home have their back? Again, obviously no after this report.

• What is the impact of this incredibly stupid move on the “war” with ISIS? Answer … it hurts us because it reduces our intel, not to mention demotivating the intel and military guys on the front lines fighting it. Plus, this type of boneheaded move makes ISIS despise us even more as being weak … which in this case we most certainly are. You want your enemies to fear you, not mock you for being an idiot. This simply raises the risk levels for all of us longer term. Again, nice move ... it's like a self-inflicted wound that reduces your ability to see what's coming at you.

• Finally, as soon as the first American dies as a result of this report causing further unrest in the already unstable Jihadi world occurs, I think the people who wrote this report should be brought up on formal charges of providing aid and comfort to the enemy. That is exactly what it is.

[graciegirl]

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) is bucking much of his party and coming to the defense of a Senate Intelligence Committee report on the CIA’s controversial interrogation tactics.

“It’s a thorough study of practices that I believe not only failed their purpose to secure actionable intelligence... but actually damaged our security interests as well as our reputation as a force for good in the world,” McCain said in a speech on the Senate floor shortly after the report was released.
“I believe the American people have a right — indeed, a responsibility — to know what was done in their name, how these practices did or did not serve their interests and how they comported our most important values,” he said.

McCain, who was kept as a prisoner of war for five years during the Vietnam War, has been one of the most vocal critics of waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods used during former President George W. Bush’s administration.

McCain comes to defense of CIA critics (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mccain-comes-to-defense-of-cia-critics/ar-BBgyuFV?ocid=ansHill11)



So.....could any of you who are here defending Bush & Cheney, torture (enhanced interrogation or whatever you prefer to call it) & the benefits of it that you claim look Sen. McCain in the eye & tell him he's wrong? I really doubt it.


I don't know. And you don't either. I know that someone planned to kill those people working peacefully in those twin towers and that group or groups with the same goals are beheading people, taping it and showing the world RIGHT NOW.

There are things we have never known and things unspeakable on this earth. That is the reason we put, or TRY to put, adult, WISE, people in power. I couldn't order those things done, but someone did. And I am not sure they were unwise. Sad as it is to say.

War is no baby game. They would do and do far worse to our prisoners, those unspeakable leaders of the radical groups of Islam. And they radicalize young men who live among us to maim and kill our people. Don't forget the Boston Bombings. Perhaps we should ask the grandfather of the little boy who was killed and his sister had her leg blown off . He lives here in The Villages. War is ugly. VERY ugly. I don't have the balls for it. But someone needs to have them.

[Rags123]

It is very unlike me to offer a Presidential quote to offer how I feel on any subject, but this one has me conflicted and I think President Obama said it best...

"When asked by Diaz-Balart how he might have reacted if he'd been president on 9/11, Obama said he didn't want to discuss hypothetical situations.

However, he added that "nobody can fully understand what it was like to be responsible for the safety and security of the American people in the aftermath of the worst attack on our national soil."

President Obama: CIA's Post-9/11 Torture Was 'Contrary to Who We Are' - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/cia-torture-report/president-obama-cias-post-9-11-torture-was-contrary-who-n265276)

[billethkid]

here is a news flash for some of the polarized thinkers....some of us do not need the party line or a need to lash out at the other party in order to formulate an opinion.

I know it is a stretch challenge....but try to look at the issues being presented and the comments being made and the (here comes the challenge) formulate YOUR OWN opinion of right or wrong.

I know it is a further challenge for some to believe others can make a decision wothout regard for party affiliation, religion or race......really it does happen more and more.

Too many are arm chair quarter backs....no skin in the game....no personal investment or loss in the scenario and hence can maintain the lofty unreasonable positions like those of the prime sponsor of the bill.

Plain and simple the release was uncalled for in the world we live in today. To maintain an agenda the sponsor chose to make a fool of the USA and put more USA citizens and or assets in danger. However as proven in recents weeks and months....that does not matter one bit against the priorities of the agenda.

[Serenoa]

Too many are arm chair quarter backs....no skin in the game....no personal investment or loss in the scenario and hence can maintain the lofty unreasonable positions like those of the prime sponsor of the bill.

Since you or no one else answered my earlier challenge, I guess y'all must regard John McCain as one of those "armchair quarterbacks" with "lofty, unreasonable positions".

[billethkid]

Since you or no one else answered my earlier challenge, I guess y'all must regard John McCain as one of those "armchair quarterbacks" with "lofty, unreasonable positions".

My post number 19 addresses your challenge.

There is not need to have a political bias to have an opinion or belief on this issue. To constantly be trying to fit the thread into a political pigeon hole of convenience adds no value at least to those who think/feel as I do.
Just as it adds no value to try to roll back the who made a fool of whom back in the Bush administration.

With a time machine pehaps we could change or affect the outcome of the past.
Since they are not readily available the best value to add is on those issues that affect the here and now. These we can do something about. It is an impediment to making forward progress when constantly trying to go back in time.

The issue up for discussion is the merit or lack thereof regarding the CURRENT release of a report that is questionable and most certainly does not add any value for the world's view of the USA AND puts American assets at risk.

How can that possible be viewed a good or adding value?

[xNYer]

You can't resist political agendas with the conservative affirmations from the same cast of characters.

[Tennisnut]

Calling torture enhanced interrogation is like calling rape enhanced dating.

GOOD ONE!!!! Some even die during this enhanced interrogation.

[Tennisnut]

Not at all. You and most of us have an understanding of what exactly constitutes rape.

There are very few who understand what exactly constitutes torture and less to none comprehend what enhanced interrogation even means.

And who and where was it stated that torture had anything to do with enhanced interrogation?

The use of rape is what I call a lateral arabesque....nothing to do with the subject but throw it in for distraction!!!

Fortunately with this report, we now know what enhanced interrogation means to the some in the CIA of which Bush was unaware. However, when he did, he was able to stop it since he along with several others (McCain) considered this enhanced interrogation torture and do not condone it.

[Tennisnut]

Just one more of many examples of the media and left wing politicians doing what ever they can to make this country the laughing stock of the world while trying to destroy us.

Most of the world is looking at as many details of this report as available in order to enhance their own interrogation capabilities. And will use this as an excuse to torture our war fighters even more when captured.

Diane Fienstein should be arrested and tried as a traitor. In most countries she would be.

Really!!!!

[l2ridehd]

[/QUOTE]So.....could any of you who are here defending Bush & Cheney, torture (enhanced interrogation or whatever you prefer to call it) & the benefits of it that you claim look Sen. McCain in the eye & tell him he's wrong? I really doubt it.[/QUOTE]

I absolutely could and would if given a chance.

I am very sorry that he was captured and held prisoner of war. I to was a pilot (F-111) during Vietnam and we all knew our risks and what would happen if we were shot down and captured. He was one of the unlucky ones. I applaud him for his bravery, for his service, and for the horrible treatment he received. I do understand why he takes the position he does, but I do not support his current positions on this and many other issues. And if I was voting in Arizona, would not vote for him.

I don't like it, but unfortunately we have to do things to protect our country from those that wish to destroy it and kill us. And if you don't believe that is what they want to do than you are being very naive.

[Advogado]

Since you or no one else answered my earlier challenge, I guess y'all must regard John McCain as one of those "armchair quarterbacks" with "lofty, unreasonable positions".

I do not so regard him. I simply regard him as totally wrong on this issue.

[Advogado]

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) is bucking much of his party and coming to the defense of a Senate Intelligence Committee report on the CIA’s controversial interrogation tactics.

“It’s a thorough study of practices that I believe not only failed their purpose to secure actionable intelligence... but actually damaged our security interests as well as our reputation as a force for good in the world,” McCain said in a speech on the Senate floor shortly after the report was released.
“I believe the American people have a right — indeed, a responsibility — to know what was done in their name, how these practices did or did not serve their interests and how they comported our most important values,” he said.

McCain, who was kept as a prisoner of war for five years during the Vietnam War, has been one of the most vocal critics of waterboarding and other harsh interrogation methods used during former President George W. Bush’s administration.

McCain comes to defense of CIA critics (http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mccain-comes-to-defense-of-cia-critics/ar-BBgyuFV?ocid=ansHill11)



So.....could any of you who are here defending Bush & Cheney, torture (enhanced interrogation or whatever you prefer to call it) & the benefits of it that you claim look Sen. McCain in the eye & tell him he's wrong? I really doubt it.
I answered your question in a separate post. Now let me ask you one, if it would save the lives of your children by preventing a terrorist attack which would result in their deaths, would or would you not resort to the tactics used by the CIA? A yes or no answer, with an explanation if you would like, would help me understand your reasoning.

Remember that, like it or not and despite the Senate Report, torture (assume, for the sake of argument, that what the CIA did was torture) is very successful in extracting information from recalcitrant people. That is why torture has been used for thousands of years for that purpose. For the Senate Democrats to say otherwise is either naive or a lie. For the CIA's view of the success of their methods: Hayden slams Senate report, claims CIA interrogations yielded 'Home Depot'-sized trove of intel | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/12/10/hayden-disputes-report-says-cia-interrogations-yielded-home-depot-sized/)

Also remember that before we captured the subject terrorists, we were trying to kill them in any way we could--shooting, slitting their throats, drone attacks, bombs, you name it. Is killing these guys in cold blood somehow less objectionable than waterboarding, sleep deprivation, and more gruesome but not fatal techniques? War is hell, but what we have now is worse than war because, in modern warfare, even the bad guys follow some basic rules. The psychopaths that we are up against now do not.

[rubicon]

It is clear that the Interrogation Study is the sole product of liberal Democrats who cherry picked their facts. The report itself reeks of confirmation bias.
and finally its only purpose is to politically damage the Republicans.

It is also clear that the techniques applied were not simply for pleasure but because operatives were operating on several threatening scenario that could harm Americans following 9/11

The present majority party for the past six years damaged and demoralized the military, local police enforcements and now the CIA. This threatens our society both domestically and abroad.

Finally it is quite clear that liberals cannot govern either domestically or with our defense and foreign policies

[Pointer]

I'm not sure all this transparency is helping. We are in a time, thanks to technology, where we are privy to so much information that's so unprecedented that how we navigate this is a learning curve, that I fear is going to take some time and maybe even a generation or two to get a handle on.

I miss the days when we were able to be unaware of all the details and trust that our American values protected us and much of the world. A lot of which I would have called our integrity and what's right and wrong.

The best that I can do is to live a life, that sets an example, with a loving heart for the human race as a whole. I'd rather not sink to our enemy's level of barbaric and inhumane treatment, that I feel does much to furthers their cause. We must take a stand for humanity. For if not us then who?

[Rags123]

I'm not sure all this transparency is helping. We are in a time, thanks to technology, where we are privy to so much information that's so unprecedented that how we navigate this is a learning curve, that I fear is going to take some time and maybe even a generation or two to get a handle on.

I miss the days when we were able to be unaware of all the details and trust that our American values protected us and much of the world. A lot of which I would have called our integrity and what's right and wrong.

The best that I can do is to live a life, that sets an example, with a loving heart for the human race as a whole. I'd rather not sink to our enemy's level of barbaric and inhumane treatment, that I feel does much to furthers their cause. We must take a stand for humanity. For if not us then who?

I suppose it is pick and choose what is shared....

"WASHINGTON (AP) — The State Department has failed to turn over government documents covering Hillary Rodham Clinton's tenure as secretary of state that The Associated Press and others requested under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act ahead of her presumptive presidential campaign. They include one request AP made four years ago and others pending for more than one year.

The agency already has missed deadlines it set for itself to turn over the material."

Delays plague Hillary Clinton's State Dept. files (http://news.yahoo.com/delays-plague-hillary-clintons-state-dept-files-184514476--election.html)

[TexaninVA]

The best that I can do is to live a life, that sets an example, with a loving heart for the human race as a whole. I'd rather not sink to our enemy's level of barbaric and inhumane treatment, that I feel does much to furthers their cause. We must take a stand for humanity. For if not us then who?

Let's imagine, for example, you had the opportunity to present your approach, face to face, to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of ISIS. Do you think he would be impressed with your "humanity" and the nobleness of it all? Do you perhaps think he would say, hey this chap has a point, and pledge to forego killing infidels and swear off machine gunning prisoners, or (literally) crucifying infidels and captives?

Like it or not, we live in a very dangerous world and either we defend ourselves and our kids ... or we take a lot of casualties. The most effective way to stand for humanity is to defeat barbarism ... however you have to do it.

[MarkinMd]

Not naming any specific posters but I believe some are trying to be so " open-minded " that their brains fell out.

[TexaninVA]

Not naming any specific posters but I believe some are trying to be so " open-minded " that their brains fell out.

That's an accurate, and very pithy way to put it.

[TexaninVA]

Sadly, it must be an immutable facet of human nature … we have to experience something “bad” before we learn how to obviate a problem that’s complex to deal with… which is to say to take relatively small actions now to avoid bigger problems or issues in the future.

This applies to the CIA “torture” debate. (It’s not legally torture but who cares at this point given the media hype). It is UNDENIABLE that enhance interrogation techniques (EIT) yielded “actionable intelligence”. The best example is the tip from KSM that ultimately led to Bin Laden getting the opportunity to meet Seal Team Six face to face. But another example has to do with preventing an attack on West Coast cities.

So, Dianne Feinstein’s home state dodged an attack because the CIA water boarded KSM and Abu Zubaydah. Kind of ironic, huh? Does anyone really, truly have a problem with this? Would it have been better to have a few thousand dead Americans and a smoldering building or two? What if, for example, one or your kids or grandkids would have been killed in such an attack? Would you still say “we’re America and we don’t waterboard because it’s really bad etc”

I didn’t think so.

The other point is EIT is not used on every prisoner, just the tough to crack cases. Using the Army Field Manual technique is fine for low level conscripts …think Iraqi Army or something. But, in a hard core organization like AQ or ISIS the top guys have the intel and they are TRAINED to resisted interrogation. Thus, if you don’t use EIT you don’t get the intel and in some cases, you get dead Americans as a result. Does anyone want that?

At some point, reality has to intrude and we as a nation need to grow up and get real. In the meantime and until that happens, I have a suggestion. Let’s get the Senate staffers (most of them lawyers) who wrote this partisan report, dress them in camo gear, grease paint on their faces and parachute them into enemy territory so they can sue the bad guys into submission.

[TOTV Team]

Unfortunately too many users have taken this into a political thread that now has to be closed.