Will Your Pension Be Cut... Soon?

[JourneyOfLife]

Rueters
A bipartisan provision to shore up distressed multi-employer pension plans and the government fund that guarantees them was taken out of the bill and proposed as an amendment facing a separate vote. Changes include raising insurance premiums for these plans and allowing them to cut benefits for non-disabled beneficiaries under 75.


Congress reaches deal for $1.1 trillion U.S. spending bill | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/10/us-usa-congress-budget-idUSKBN0JN1YU20141210)


It looks like it was pulled from the main part of the spending bill at the last minute and will be handled in separate vote as an amendment to the legislation!

[graciegirl]

A lot of harmful things done in this time left, before the power shifts.

[JRichm369]

This legislation has been passed, however in reading all the information that has been released I could not find any place that it would effect Representatives and Senators pensions

[sunnyatlast]

This legislation has been passed, however in reading all the information that has been released I could not find any place that it would effect Representatives and Senators pensions

This, like almost every other monetary matter Congress and the administrations get their hands on and manipulate, could be stopped if term limits of one, single term of 3 or 6 years were put into place on Congress members, with no further runs for congressional office allowed. Their constant goal of getting re-elected and using our money to play Santa Claus to get votes needs to stop.

They need to be sent home after one term to work and earn and pay the bills like the rest of us do.

Term limits are good for the presidency, so why not have them for Congress, too!! Problem is, THEY would never vote that through.

[bimmertl]

A lot of harmful things done in this time left, before the power shifts.

Enlighten us and tell us what they are.

[billethkid]

it has been and is currently eroded by the CONTINUING rise in health care costs annually.

The 1.7% increase in SS in January will not offset the rise in monthly premiums (again 2015) for medigap insurance. Ditto for the rising premiums for part D.

The real burden on the pension funds due to medical care cost increases will not be felt for at least another year. The impact of the ACA on those companies that have extended the age of student coverage and the adding to the insurance companies roles those with existing prior conditions. Just these two factors alone will drive up the amount of $$$ being paid out by these companies that they never had to before. The result will be increased prices to the insured to cover the additonal costs (reduced profits) of the insurance companies (that survive).

These actions will begin in 2016.....is that a convenient timing/date or not?

The above two do not come anywhere close to what will happen as those who are uninsured get added to the system. Their incidences and clamor for services is currently not even in the system. It will generate an increase in cost to the insurance companies that will dwarf the other costs.

So if "the government" reaches into our pockets it will just be an ADDITIONAL reduction of some of our fixed incomes!!!!

Even the staucnh die hard supporters will change their tune as the full impact of ACA hits the market place....because then it will be personal and they will be an invested party in the result. The increases do not recognize party loyalty ya know!

[dbussone]

The staunch supporters are congressional members, staffers, and federal employees who will never be part of the ACA and therefore don't care

[Sandtrap328]

This legislation has been passed, however in reading all the information that has been released I could not find any place that it would effect Representatives and Senators pensions

...and why would it affect Representatives or Senators pensions?

[Sandtrap328]

The staunch supporters are congressional members, staffers, and federal employees who will never be part of the ACA and therefore don't care


It really would have been a better idea to get uninsured citizens in a modified version of FEHB.

[Cajulian]

Enlighten us and tell us what they are.

Watch CSPAN and read maybe you can get up to date. She's right, there are just too many to put in a Post here. Do your homework.

[Average Guy]

A lot of harmful things done in this time left, before the power shifts.

The OP stated that this was a bipartisan effort, so how would a "power shift" make any difference?

[graciegirl]

The OP stated that this was a bipartisan effort, so how would a "power shift" make any difference?




Boobytrapped issues left for the next bunch of people in power.

[quirky3]

Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
A lot of harmful things done in this time left, before the power shifts.

Originally Posted by Average Guy View Post
The OP stated that this was a bipartisan effort, so how would a "power shift" make any difference?

Boobytrapped issues left for the next bunch of people in power.

I agree with Average Guy in that this is objectively viewed as a bipartisan effort. I would like to see any factual basis for accusations of boobytrapped issues.

[fred53]

The staunch supporters are congressional members, staffers, and federal employees who will never be part of the ACA and therefore don't care

I do care as a federal retiree. Why are you trying to speak for everyone when you don't know everyone? Are you just fanning the flames?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by graciegirl View Post
A lot of harmful things done in this time left, before the power shifts.

Originally Posted by Average Guy View Post
The OP stated that this was a bipartisan effort, so how would a "power shift" make any difference?



I agree with Average Guy in that this is objectively viewed as a bipartisan effort. I would like to see any factual basis for accusations of boobytrapped issues.

Well...the surprise amnesty ruling may be a good place to start.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

This, like almost every other monetary matter Congress and the administrations get their hands on and manipulate, could be stopped if term limits of one, single term of 3 or 6 years were put into place on Congress members, with no further runs for congressional office allowed. Their constant goal of getting re-elected and using our money to play Santa Claus to get votes needs to stop.

They need to be sent home after one term to work and earn and pay the bills like the rest of us do.

Term limits are good for the presidency, so why not have them for Congress, too!! Problem is, THEY would never vote that through.

I've been saying this for years. One term and done, six years for reps and nine years for senators. Replace one third of each house every three years. Of course they would still spend some time trying to get members of their party elected to replace them, but it would cut down a lot of what they do in terms of campaigning unless it was just prohibited.

And while we're at it, let's cut the president to one term of six years and prohibit him from campaigning for anyone while in office.

Of course we're asking our legislatures to do this to themselves so I doubt that it will never happen. The only shot of it actually happening would be if we grandfathered those currently in office. If that happened it could take many years before the system is in full effect.

[quirky3]

[/COLOR]

Well...the surprise amnesty ruling may be a good place to start.

It's all in one's perspective. There is a root cause for every action and looking at the big picture situation, there were plenty of bipartisan opportunities to avoid actions like that.

[graciegirl]

It's all in one's perspective. There is a root cause for every action and looking at the big picture situation, there were plenty of bipartisan opportunities to avoid actions like that.

Things will get better in January.

[Sandtrap328]

I do care as a federal retiree. Why are you trying to speak for everyone when you don't know everyone? Are you just fanning the flames?

Thank you. :MOJE_whot:

[Sandtrap328]

[/COLOR]

Well...the surprise amnesty ruling may be a good place to start.

First, it was not a surprise. The President said it would be done before the end of the year.

Is the alternative to forcibly round up 11 million people (some with legal citizen children) and deport them - separating the parents from children, since you cannot deport a legally born citizen to a country they were not born in?

Let's show some compassion.

[billethkid]

It's all in one's perspective. There is a root cause for every action and looking at the big picture situation, there were plenty of bipartisan opportunities to avoid actions like that.

Of course there was ...wink....wink:)

[quirky3]

Sarcasm has never been and cannot be a form of wit. Those who think so may be half right.

[Chi-Town]

Sarcasm has never been and cannot be a form of wit. Those who think so may be half right.
Now, that is witty.

[billethkid]

First, it was not a surprise. The President said it would be done before the end of the year.

Is the alternative to forcibly round up 11 million people (some with legal citizen children) and deport them - separating the parents from children, since you cannot deport a legally born citizen to a country they were not born in?

Let's show some compassion.

I am not sure why the presumed basis (by some) is if you are not for amnesty you are for "...forcibly round up 11 million people (some with legal citizen children) and deport them - separating the parents from children..."
That is simply not the case.

The compasion (lack of enforcement) shown to date has been over all these recent years to do just about nothing to those here illegally and nothing done to those marching in every day. In addition the enforcement of deporting those who have been ordered departed is almost non existent.

What never seems to get discussed are the benefits costing billions of tax dollars for the illgals in the amnesty bill. The bill provides benefits not available to many American citizens.

The amnesty bill does nothing about closing down the border and ramping up enforcement. Is it not a simple logic that before one sets up benefits for illegals to cut off the input that will only grow the illegal ranks daily.....just like it is doing right now.

While slightly off topic this subject will definitely have a future impact on retirement funds of existing American citizens.

[njbchbum]

First, it was not a surprise. The President said it would be done before the end of the year.

Is the alternative to forcibly round up 11 million people (some with legal citizen children) and deport them - separating the parents from children, since you cannot deport a legally born citizen to a country they were not born in?

Let's show some compassion.

Sandtrap - The illegals who have come here have done so with the knowledge that they would live in the shadows without the benefits of being a U.S. citizen; that was their choice. Those who have come here and overstayed their visa have done so with full knowledge that what they are doing is illegal which leaves them subject to the possibility of the deportation process. Those are decisions the illegals have made and the chances they have decided to take...risking the sunlight on themselves and their famlies.

Why try to round them up and deport them? Why not allow them to live under the conditions they chose for themselves and their family? Why not secure the borders and PREVENT more illegals from gaining access the the U.S. Why not invest additional funding into I.C.E. to provide for processing the illegals currently in custody and resolving their future to deport or stay? Why not allow the existing laws re an immigrant's path to citizenshipto work?

Compassion for illegals is fine - and it is okay if it simply stops at leaving the illegals to the choices they have made. Remember the old saying - Charity begins at home? Have you looked around yourself and beyond your immediate surroundings to know how much charity is needed right here for our own born in the U.S. of A. citizens from infants to elders? Why not show that same compassion to OUR OWN before showing it to illegals? Why not get involved with 'Support Our Soldiers' - the very soldiers who fought for the freedoms that you and the illegals enjoy today [http://projectsosusa.homestead.com/index.html]

Compassion/support for illegals simply drains what precious few resources the American people of the lower and middle economic tiers have for themselves - jobs, incomes, social security, medicare, savings and pensions.

[scarecrow1]

This, like almost every other monetary matter Congress and the administrations get their hands on and manipulate, could be stopped if term limits of one, single term of 3 or 6 years were put into place on Congress members, with no further runs for congressional office allowed. Their constant goal of getting re-elected and using our money to play Santa Claus to get votes needs to stop.

They need to be sent home after one term to work and earn and pay the bills like the rest of us do.

Term limits are good for the presidency, so why not have them for Congress, too!! Problem is, THEY would never vote that through.
There are term limits already. They call it voting.

[billethkid]

Sarcasm has never been and cannot be a form of wit. Those who think so may be half right.

Sarcasm is in the eye of the beholder....there was no sarcasm intended in the response!

[scarecrow1]

Things will get better in January.

We'll see???

[scarecrow1]

Sarcasm has never been and cannot be a form of wit. Those who think so may be half right.

That's one person's opinion !!!!

[graciegirl]

Sarcasm has never been and cannot be a form of wit. Those who think so may be half right.


Passive aggression is another way to disguise anger. Everybody uses some form of trying to act polite, cool, or in control, when they are really upset.

[keithwand]

What's a pension?

[zcaveman]

Things will get better in January.

Of what year? 2017 maybe.

Z

[rubicon]

First, it was not a surprise. The President said it would be done before the end of the year.

Is the alternative to forcibly round up 11 million people (some with legal citizen children) and deport them - separating the parents from children, since you cannot deport a legally born citizen to a country they were not born in?

Let's show some compassion.

I don't know about others but if people continued to knock on my door for handouts eventually I catch on. America doesn't have to forcibly deport all illegals all they need to do is not issue them drivers licenses, social security and voting cards and benefits. I am sure they catch on. Say look we aren't going to provide any benefits, etc but we will buy you a one week ticket home and we will only do that once. i rather pa for 11 million bus tickets once then continue to finance illegals their whole lives

[Moderator]

This thread is for discussion of a potential effect on pensions. Please return to that topic or the thread will be closed. Thank you.

Moderator

[dbussone]

I do care as a federal retiree. Why are you trying to speak for everyone when you don't know everyone? Are you just fanning the flames?


I'm sure you do care. But am I wrong that you are not subject to the ACA. I've worked in health care for 40 years. If I'm wrong I appreciate the education. And I do speak for a large segment of the population.

[justjim]

A trillion dollar plus budget is way above my pay grade. Who knows what the final document will look like. It's a shame that we have such a dysfunctional Congress.

OP, we will just have to "wait and see" what the final budget brings and what Congress does about funds to shore up pensions.

[njbchbum]

The article cited by the OP refers to "multi-employer pension plans " rather than individual employer pension plans.

Does 'multi-employer' refer to plans that cover employees in plans provided by the likes of Teamsters and Auto Workers? If so, it would seem that potential legislation re cutting those pensions would not be applicable to employees who were not in such pension plans.

Those of us in a pension plan provided by our sole, public/private employer only have to fear the actions of our employers rather than legislation! And that has been happening for years!

[graciegirl]

First, it was not a surprise. The President said it would be done before the end of the year.
Is the alternative to forcibly round up 11 million people (some with legal citizen children) and deport them - separating the parents from children, since you cannot deport a legally born citizen to a country they were not born in?

Let's show some compassion.

After the November election, he also said..."I heard you".

Compassion, as if we who have common sense don't have compassion. Charity begins at home. Breaking the law and turning the other way on this immigration issue started with Bush. There is a legal way and an illegal way to immigrate to this country. As a group, I see so much to like about our neighbors from the south, but call a tamale a tamale.

[Madelaine Amee]

After the November election, he also said..."I heard you".

Compassion, as if we who have common sense don't have compassion. Charity begins at home. Breaking the law and turning the other way on this immigration issue started with Bush. There is a legal way and an illegal way to immigrate to this country. As a group, I see so much to like about our neighbors from the south, but call a tamale a tamale.

As a group ............ the majority are prepared to do jobs that others in this country will not do, and they are prepared to work like dogs to give their children a better life. We have been fortunate to travel extensively, and I fully understand why people will do anything in their power to give their children a chance in life. A chance they are never, ever, going to get in their corrupt third world countries. Make them legal, give them an opportunity to work and pay taxes, rather than have the thousands we have now who are working under the table and are, therefore, unable to contribute to the economy. As with any situation of this nature, you cannot weed out those who are not good for the country and those who are - it's a crap shoot - you win some, you lose some.

I cannot remember where I read or heard it, but recently I saw that someone had said most of the food produced in this country is worked by these people, and a great deal of the construction in this country is done by these people.

And as for coming to this country legally --- I had work done by Irish stone workers in Boston who were illegal, they would come for six months and leave for six months, so they are not the only nationality slipping in and out of America illegally.

[conn630]

I believe the House passed the bill but it still has to get thru the Senate. It is my understanding the President is lobbying his own party to try to get it passed.

[JourneyOfLife]

The article cited by the OP refers to "multi-employer pension plans " rather than individual employer pension plans.

Does 'multi-employer' refer to plans that cover employees in plans provided by the likes of Teamsters and Auto Workers? If so, it would seem that potential legislation re cutting those pensions would not be applicable to employees who were not in such pension plans.

Those of us in a pension plan provided by our sole, public/private employer only have to fear the actions of our employers rather than legislation! And that has been happening for years!

I have not read the legislation. But the article and other things I have read do say the provision was related to Multi-Employer plans which are Unions, but also can be smaller companies that joined a pool because they are too small for their own pension fund... and need to spread the risk (mortality/longevity).


There actually is more to that legislation that is loosely connect to the pension part... these other things are a bit disconcerting too!

1) There is a measure to remove or relax rules that limit investment banks from holding and trading to many derivatives (i.e., too big to fail/systematic impact).

2) A bit of irony on the investment banks measure. The Investement banks are the ones that created those toxic CDOs (Derivatives) that were labeled at AAA grade. Guess who the investment banks sold scads of those Junk CDOs to??? You guessed it; Pension Plans! As those CDOs collapsed along with the general markets, it caused many pensions to have financial problems... many have not recovered from it!

Here is the one that takes the cake...

3) So the lobbyist show up and influence both Bank and Pension legislation (probably other provisions in the bill too). So what else ended up in the Omnibus spending bill... a provision to allow larger political donations.


Something about those three issues being jammed in a bill which.... "Has to be passed by midnight"... that stinks.

Many, probably most voters, consider those 3 items to be fairly important. Why wouldn't those be separate bills and debated on each of their merits.... IOW in the LIGHT OF DAY!

I find the investment bank legislation to be outside of the pail... we aren't totally out of the woods yet from the financial crisis.... much less the country's financial overhang from it!

[Sandtrap328]

Madelaine Amee - Have you thought about and considered the other side of the coin? Are you aware that teens who want to babysit now have a hard time doing so because families are hiring third world nannies who can introduce a new cuisine to the kitchen and teach the kiddos a new language? Did you know that the teens who used to count on the $ made from planting and harvesting the potato crop in Idaho and Maine have been replaced by foreign born planters/pickers who get the $ that used to help local families survive? Do you agree with the President's intent to increase the # of Visas for foreign professionals so they can be hired in the U.S. despite the numbers of American professionals who are currently on unemployment? How many illegals do you think will come out of the shadows and voluntarily pay taxes rather than stay back and continue to send those $ back home so more family members will have the funds to pay another coyote to bring them here? The illegals come to this country fully aware of the conditions they will face and they take the chance anyway. Why should we provide for them before we provide for our own? Hiring an illegal is tantamount to taking money away from an American worker and family.

I just read an article in the Wall Street Journal that said Idaho was having to use convict laborers to harvest potatoes because there were not enough migrant workers. I could not find anything about Maine's potatoes but saw that the Maine blueberry crop is dependent on migrant workers. These are usually illegals and are paid in cash under the table. Under the table means cheap labor for the corporations that hire them.

Do you honestly think that all the construction workers who built our homes in The Villages were legal? How about our maintenance workers?

[l2ridehd]

This is just another step in the wealth redistribution plan. Every aspect of retirement income is being attack by those in Washington looking for more power. They want a higher tax on Social Security or limit benefits to those with other income. They want to now lower pensions that those same people receive. There are so many plans to figure out how to get at your 401K money that it difficult to follow where that stands on any given day. They will keep up these attacks as they need more and more money to fund the vote buying they continue to do to get re-elected.

This is one bill that got passed that starts us down the road. Now they can modify it every time they need more money. All seniors and those with a DBP should unite and vote against every person who voted for this bill.

[JRichm369]

The budget bill that has been passed had quite a few additions as they were quite sure it would pass. The most comical of these being the addition of a probation of any legislation that would govern or limit bovine flatulence, which appears to be the prevailing atmosphere inside of the beltway.

[rubicon]

Here is my understanding of the OP's comments ( post#1).

It is a congressional bipartisan effort under the omnibus budget designed to mitigate a pension crisis before it requires a taxpayer bailout.

The plans afected are those wherein employees could transfer their pension from one employer to another ( construction, etc) The plans were set up decades ago and are viewed as an anachronism today because it the rapidly changing business climate of today companies go broke or break off certain lines.

The Teamsters tried to push through a taxpayer bailout in 2010. However if the plans do fail then they fall to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) which is essentially underfunded

The compromise included both political parties and the union leaders calls for those pension plans deemed critical or declining (fail within 15 years or less than 80% funded) could petition the Treasury to cut benefits up to 110% of the PBGC limit The PBGC's annual max is $12,870. The reform also makes permanent 2006 Pension Protection Act that allow insolvent plans to reduce adjustable benefits that is early and disability payouts.

Wall Street Journal 12/12/2014

[golf2140]

I just read an article in the Wall Street Journal that said Idaho was having to use convict laborers to harvest potatoes because there were not enough migrant workers. I could not find anything about Maine's potatoes but saw that the Maine blueberry crop is dependent on migrant workers. These are usually illegals and are paid in cash under the table. Under the table means cheap labor for the corporations that hire them.

Do you honestly think that all the construction workers who built our homes in The Villages were legal? How about our maintenance workers?

Wow what a statement !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rubicon]

This pension issue is just the tip of the iceberg. There are not many public pension plans that are properly funded. Ask Illinois

[Paper1]

Here is my understanding of the OP's comments ( post#1).

It is a congressional bipartisan effort under the omnibus budget designed to mitigate a pension crisis before it requires a taxpayer bailout.

The plans afected are those wherein employees could transfer their pension from one employer to another ( construction, etc) The plans were set up decades ago and are viewed as an anachronism today because it the rapidly changing business climate of today companies go broke or break off certain lines.

The Teamsters tried to push through a taxpayer bailout in 2010. However if the plans do fail then they fall to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) which is essentially underfunded

The compromise included both political parties and the union leaders calls for those pension plans deemed critical or declining (fail within 15 years or less than 80% funded) could petition the Treasury to cut benefits up to 110% of the PBGC limit The PBGC's annual max is $12,870. The reform also makes permanent 2006 Pension Protection Act that allow insolvent plans to reduce adjustable benefits that is early and disability payouts.

Wall Street Journal 12/12/2014
Thank you for adding some facts to this thread instead of emotion.

[KeepingItReal]

Thank you for adding some facts to this thread instead of emotion.



Posted 9 PM 12/13/14 CNN Money

Congress moves one step closer toward allowing pension cuts - Dec. 12, 2014 (http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/12/retirement/pension-cuts/index.html)

[Madelaine Amee]

IMHO this legislation could have a profound effect on many living here. Many of my acquaintances are retired from these industries, and this would be a huge cut in pensions and living style. It has to be very frightening for a lot of people.

[dbussone]

IMHO this legislation could have a profound effect on many living here. Many of my acquaintances are retired from these industries, and this would be a huge cut in pensions and living style. It has to be very frightening for a lot of people.

In one way or another it will have an adverse ripple affect on everyone living here.

[Paper1]

IMHO this legislation could have a profound effect on many living here. Many of my acquaintances are retired from these industries, and this would be a huge cut in pensions and living style. It has to be very frightening for a lot of people.

Not to get political but exactly the reason these issues should have been addressed long ago. There is going to be some pain somewhere after a great deal of avoidance

[KeepingItReal]

Congress approves plan to allow pension cuts
December 14, 2014: 12:21 AM ET

Congress approves plan to allow pension cuts - Dec. 12, 2014 (http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/12/retirement/pension-cuts/index.html)

[Sandtrap328]

One thing that was never mentioned in this thread is the fact that all "money" bills must originate in the House of Representatives.

The amendment that may allow for the reduction of some pensions was written by Rep. Kline (R) of Minnesota.

Google the voting record of the House on this spending bill and see how it basically went along party lines. Rich Nugent who represents The Villages voted in favor of it.

[janmcn]

One thing that was never mentioned in this thread is the fact that all "money" bills must originate in the House of Representatives.

The amendment that may allow for the reduction of some pensions was written by Rep. Kline (R) of Minnesota.

Google the voting record of the House on this spending bill and see how it basically went along party lines. Rich Nugent who represents The Villages voted in favor of it.

And isn't it interesting that this spending bill was approved after the election?

[janmcn]

One thing that was never mentioned in this thread is the fact that all "money" bills must originate in the House of Representatives.

The amendment that may allow for the reduction of some pensions was written by Rep. Kline (R) of Minnesota.

Google the voting record of the House on this spending bill and see how it basically went along party lines. Rich Nugent who represents The Villages voted in favor of it.

Did Rep Nugent discuss this amendment to the spending bill when he held his town hall meetings before the recent election? If so, what was the reaction by the seniors in attendance?

The good news is, as I read it, this bill will not effect anyone age 80 or over, so it seems congress is encouraging people to work into their 80's which would lighten the load on social security.

With people losing up to 50% of what they thought their pensions would be or what they are now collecting, this cannot be good news for the future expansion of The Villages.

[sunnyatlast]

This is just one more mess Congress has made when they get their greedy hands in the till and use it as gift giving to garner votes.

It seems people are forgetting that the rising costs of union retirees' healthcare was cited as a main reason why these pension funds were/are underfunded for the future, and thus ACA was supposed to address that. Instead, it's gotten worse:

"Unions’ support was critical to the passage of Obamacare in 2010. But unions are continuing to learn, to their apparent surprise, that their members will bear many of the costs of the new health law. Now we learn that some laborers are preparing to strike, if they are forced to absorb the higher health-insurance costs that the Affordable Care Act requires.

“When we first supported the calls for health-care reform, we thought it was going to bring costs down,” a lawyer for the Laborers International Union of North America, or LIUNA, told Kris Maher and Melanie Trottman of the Wall Street Journal. But that’s not what’s happening. Maher and Trottman today discuss several cases where unionized workers and their employers are being forced to absorb higher costs as a result of the law…."

A Labor Union Prepares To Strike, As Obamacare Ups Health Insurance Costs By 5.0-12.5% - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2014/05/27/a-labor-union-prepares-to-strike-as-obamacare-ups-health-insurance-costs-by-5-0-12-5/)

And then there are the "perverse incentives" the Teamsters and others cited in the law that affect their workers-taxpayers in ways that seriously affect the funding of their pensions, too:

"Time is running out: Congress wrote this law; we voted for you. We have a problem; you need to fix it. The unintended consequences of the ACA are severe. Perverse incentives are already creating nightmare scenarios:

First, the law creates an incentive for employers to keep employees’ work hours below 30 hours a week. Numerous employers have begun to cut workers’ hours to avoid this obligation, and many of them are doing so openly. The impact is two-fold: fewer hours means less pay while also losing our current health benefits….."

Union Letter: Obamacare Will ‘Destroy The Very Health and Wellbeing’ of Workers - Corporate Intelligence - WSJ (http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2013/07/12/union-letter-obamacare-will-destroy-the-very-health-and-wellbeing-of-workers/)

TERM LIMITS are needed to force these people out after one 3 or 5 year term so they have to go home and earn and make a living and build a retirement the way the rest of us do. Term limits are good for the presidency, and so they would be good for Congress, too.

[Madelaine Amee]

And isn't it interesting that this spending bill was approved after the election?

:bowdown: That point occurred to me!

[Sandtrap328]

I wonder if Rep. Rich Nugent will bring the amendment up at his next town meeting (that it was a Republican idea to cut certain pensions) as to what his reasons were for his vote in favor of it? :shrug:

That would definitely be a crowd pleaser here in The Villages.

[Sandtrap328]

Well, let's hope it does not impact many of our residents.

[rubicon]

Keep these thoughts in mind.

The PBGC is going broke it can't fund many plans that go insolvent.

The bill originated in the house but went to the Senate and was also approved so it is a bipartisan bill and if people want to point fingers then there is enough blame to go around in both major political parties.

This bill was passed because the only other option was a taxpayer bailout. Think GM before you say any further .......................

This bill set precedent and could apply to public pension plans, social security and medicare. Note I said could as this is pure speculation by observers.

States like Illinois spend upward of 40% of their budget funding retiree public pension and medical programs. it is a very serious problem because there were assumption made in these plans that were advanced in order to get contracts signed. Again if these plans fail there are two options taxpayer bailouts or cut benefits increase retiree age limits, etc.

In the private sector if a pension plan goes belly up employees eat the losses

Of course none of this will ever affect congressional leaders and their staff
or as they use to say in France 'Let them Eat Cake"

Cést la vie

[gomoho]

Rubicon - I would rather see the people bail themselves out than bail out a corporation. After all it's the people's money to begin with.

I do think the public and union pensions need to tighten their belts like most corporations have done with their management retirees. Husband is a management retiree from one of the big 3 and we have assumed the majority of our medicare health care costs. Unions will fight it, but a little something is better than nothing.

[sunnyatlast]

When will people learn from messes like this that legislators make and the states' taxpayers are ALREADY on the hook to pay for, for this type of boondoggle??

Illinois’ pension liability as a percentage of state revenue is far and away the nation’s highest, according to a new report from a major credit-rating agency.

The state’s three-year average liability over revenue is 258 percent, Moody’s Investors Service says.

The next closest? Connecticut, at about 200 percent.

The Moody’s report averaged the Illinois percentage from 2010 through 2012. In 2012 alone, the state’s rate was 318 percent.

The state has a $100 billion deficit in the amount of money that should be invested in the portfolios of five state-employee pension accounts. Lawmakers adopted an overhaul plan last fall that cuts benefits and increases worker contributions to significantly cut that debt.

But the law has been challenged in court……"

http://politics.suntimes.com/article/springfield/illinois-pension-debt-rate-nation’s-worst-moodys-report-says/sat-09062014-848pm

[B767drvr]

When will people learn from messes like this that legislators make and the states' taxpayers are ALREADY on the hook to pay for, for this type of boondoggle??

Illinois’ pension liability as a percentage of state revenue is far and away the nation’s highest, according to a new report from a major credit-rating agency.

The state’s three-year average liability over revenue is 258 percent, Moody’s Investors Service says.

The next closest? Connecticut, at about 200 percent.

The Moody’s report averaged the Illinois percentage from 2010 through 2012. In 2012 alone, the state’s rate was 318 percent.

The state has a $100 billion deficit in the amount of money that should be invested in the portfolios of five state-employee pension accounts. Lawmakers adopted an overhaul plan last fall that cuts benefits and increases worker contributions to significantly cut that debt.

But the law has been challenged in court……"

http://politics.suntimes.com/article/springfield/illinois-pension-debt-rate-nation’s-worst-moodys-report-says/sat-09062014-848pm

Since I'm not supposed to direct my comments toward other users, Sunny, I'll preface that my remarks are directed at no one in particular.

Through my keen powers of observation, I've noticed that PUBLIC unions give an awful lot of money to certain candidates that believe in confiscating and redistributing tax dollars. It's a very "cute" cycle where PUBLIC unions donate to sympathetic candidates, said candidates are elected, and then… wait for it… oh my gosh, they feel an "obligation" to "repay" their donors in the form of ever increasing benefit and pensions for public service employees.

On a national level, "we" borrow 42 cents of every dollar spent. Does ANYONE really believe the laws of economics can be ignored indefinitely?

Guess what? Social Security and Medicare are next. They are bankrupting the country. The can can only be kicked down the road so far. Plan for it is the best advice. It WILL have to be tackled one day. Perhaps most of the current villagers will have passed before then, good for them, but their kids, grandkids, and great-grandkids will have to pay the tab. Sorry, but Santa Claus is not real.

My guess is the Fed will inflate it away; beware "approaching" seniors!

[Rags123]

Since I'm not supposed to direct my comments toward other users, Sunny, I'll preface that my remarks are directed at no one in particular.

Through my keen powers of observation, I've noticed that PUBLIC unions give an awful lot of money to certain candidates that believe in confiscating and redistributing tax dollars. It's a very "cute" cycle where PUBLIC unions donate to sympathetic candidates, said candidates are elected, and then… wait for it… oh my gosh, they feel an "obligation" to "repay" their donors in the form of ever increasing benefit and pensions for public service employees.

On a national level, "we" borrow 42 cents of every dollar spent. Does ANYONE really believe the laws of economics can be ignored indefinitely?

Guess what? Social Security and Medicare are next. They are bankrupting the country. The can can only be kicked down the road so far. Plan for it is the best advice. It WILL have to be tackled one day. Perhaps most of the current villagers will have passed before then, good for them, but their kids, grandkids, and great-grandkids will have to pay the tab. Sorry, but Santa Claus is not real.

My guess is the Fed will inflate it away; beware "approaching" seniors!

Impressive post with great insights

[Paper1]

Since I'm not supposed to direct my comments toward other users, Sunny, I'll preface that my remarks are directed at no one in particular.

Through my keen powers of observation, I've noticed that PUBLIC unions give an awful lot of money to certain candidates that believe in confiscating and redistributing tax dollars. It's a very "cute" cycle where PUBLIC unions donate to sympathetic candidates, said candidates are elected, and then… wait for it… oh my gosh, they feel an "obligation" to "repay" their donors in the form of ever increasing benefit and pensions for public service employees.

On a national level, "we" borrow 42 cents of every dollar spent. Does ANYONE really believe the laws of economics can be ignored indefinitely?

Guess what? Social Security and Medicare are next. They are bankrupting the country. The can can only be kicked down the road so far. Plan for it is the best advice. It WILL have to be tackled one day. Perhaps most of the current villagers will have passed before then, good for them, but their kids, grandkids, and great-grandkids will have to pay the tab. Sorry, but Santa Claus is not real.

My guess is the Fed will inflate it away; beware "approaching" seniors!

All good points but any candidate that suggests we address any of these issues will find himself unemployed. Americans agree you can raise taxes and cut benefits as long as they are not theirs.

[The Buckeyes]

First, it was not a surprise. The President said it would be done before the end of the year.

Is the alternative to forcibly round up 11 million people (some with legal citizen children) and deport them - separating the parents from children, since you cannot deport a legally born citizen to a country they were not born in?

Let's show some compassion.

Make sure you show some compassion when you have to press 1 for English! :a040:

[The Buckeyes]

As to the multi employer pension plans...UPS paid the Teamsters Union over $6 Billion dollars to exit the plan for their drivers in the Central States Plan. That's right....Billion with a [B]B[B]. It ended up to be nothing but a wealth redistribution scheme. For every $100 bucks the company would contribute their driver would probably collect only $25 bucks at retirement. The rest of the money was used to pay for pensions of other company's employees even those who had gone out of business. By the way, do you know how Las Vegas was built....follow the money back to the teamsters and Jimmy Hoffa.

[Sandtrap328]

Make sure you show some compassion when you have to press 1 for English! :a040:

Dos por Espanol! Gracias.

Really, does it irritate you that much to take an extra second to press 1? How about Canada where all signs are in both anglais and french? When Puerto Rico becomes a state in the not too distant future, it will be bilingual.

[The Buckeyes]

Dos por Espanol! Gracias.

Really, does it irritate you that much to take an extra second to press 1? How about Canada where all signs are in both anglais and french? When Puerto Rico becomes a state in the not too distant future, it will be bilingual.

YES IT DOES!
While growing up I didn't have to press 1 for English! Maybe I should press 1 for English and 2 for German, Polish, Italian, ect. ect. ect. Our families assimilated, embraced their new country and learned English no matter how difficult it may have been and they immigrated LEAGALLY! :boxing2:

[njbchbum]

snipped

Through my keen powers of observation, I've noticed that PUBLIC unions give an awful lot of money to certain candidates that believe in confiscating and redistributing tax dollars. It's a very "cute" cycle where PUBLIC unions donate to sympathetic candidates, said candidates are elected, and then… wait for it… oh my gosh, they feel an "obligation" to "repay" their donors in the form of ever increasing benefit and pensions for public service employees.

snipped


Such donating is not limited to public unions - right? And we still have PACs and Super PACs. Aren't those contributions 'somewhat' responsible for the recent turn of events when it comes to undoing the limits on corporate and individual campaign contributions?

Do we all not contribute in our own way and to the best of our ability, be it cash, stuffing envelopes, manning the phone bank, hosting a candidate meet and greet, etc. in order to promote our favorite candidate - who in one way or another will be redistributing/controlling/limiting whatever resources are within their purview?

[elevatorman]

There are term limits already. They call it voting.

I would like to see a two term limit. One in office and the second in jail!