What are the details?

[Sandtrap328]

President Obama signed his executive order regarding some illegal immigrants. We have seen posts on here bemoaning 11 million illegal immigrants getting free health insurance, voting cards, driver licenses, or other things.

What are the real details of the executive order?

There have been other posts that said compassion means to do nothing for these people like give them the legal opportunity to work but that they knew they would live in a shadow society and be paid substandard wages to do jobs that Americans will not do. Is this the compassion our churches teach us? Is this the compassion we have taught our children and they pass onto their children?

[redwitch]

Reality is that there has always been little compassion for immigrants, legal or otherwise. Think back to "Irish need not apply," and so on. It really is a sink or swim society.

These new immigrants make it hard for us and themselves. They do not want to become Americans. They do nothing to assimilate into our culture. Instead, we cater to them with Spanish speaking television, phones, schools, businesses. Previous immigrants here were forced to learn English. They wanted to become part of this nation. They did not plan to ever return to their native land. That is not the case today. There is no effort to learn anything but the very basics of English. The goal is to send money home every month and to return to their native countries when they can.

Most of these immigrants are good, hard working people. They suffer extreme deprivation to get here. They truly have my sympathy but if they don't want to become Americans, then I can see no reason to support them with medical, education, etc. Until they show that they want to assimilate, to speak English, to have a goal of becoming a U.S. citizen, I think they have chosen their spot in our society as harsh as that may sound.

[Nightengale212]

President Obama signed his executive order regarding some illegal immigrants. We have seen posts on here bemoaning 11 million illegal immigrants getting free health insurance, voting cards, driver licenses, or other things.

What are the real details of the executive order?

There have been other posts that said compassion means to do nothing for these people like give them the legal opportunity to work but that they knew they would live in a shadow society and be paid substandard wages to do jobs that Americans will not do. Is this the compassion our churches teach us? Is this the compassion we have taught our children and they pass onto their children?

Let's see who captured my compassion this past week. It is a toss up between the homeless Vietnam Vet who was covered head to toe with bedbug bites from the horrific shelter he is living in. The other was an 84 year old Vet who has a bedsore the size of an orange caused by lack of the ability of his elderly wife who is his only caretaker to properly bath and turn him, and he is not eligible to additional homecare because of lack of program funding.

Sorry, but my compassion quotient is already exhausted from these two most deserving individuals and the countless other Vets who risked their lives for our freedom that continue to experience hunger, homelessness, and lack of necessary healthcare.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Sorry, but I think that the phrase, "jobs that Americans won't do", is a complete myth perpetrated by those who use these people to avoid higher payrolls and paying taxes.

There are plenty of uneducated, unskilled Americans with no hope of a future that would do these jobs. There are plenty of young people who have been in trouble with the law that could be placed into programs that would give them a place to stay and a job as opposed to putting them in juvenile centers where they learn more about how to commit crimes. We also have plenty of incarcerated individuals that could be made to be useful members of society while earning themselves some money or paying part of the cost of their incarceration.

We still have an unemployment problem in this country, a crime problem and a huge failure of our educational system. These factors would provide plenty of workers to do menial labor.

Who picked out vegetables before we had this big illegal immigration problem?

As redwitch said, as a society we have sometimes not been very welcome to immigrants. But over time, those that have come here legally have assimilated and are accepted. I don't know that that will ever change.

My wife is an immigrant and a legal permanent resident. It took a lot of work and money to get her here. The process is much too difficult and needs to be fixed. It's easier for some to come here illegally than to come legally.

AS far as compassion goes, I don't find it very compassionate to allow this situation to continue as is. These people flock here illegally and then get used and abused. That needs to stop. We need to seal our borders.

As far as the 11 million that are here, I have no problem with doing something to help them out. But, we need to look at every case individually. Some like to tell stories of kids that were brought here by their parents when they were young and have lived here all their lives. Or of poor people simply looking for a way to survive. It's true that those people exist in the illegal population. Many are people who have over stayed their visa and just need to do a bit of paperwork to get squared.

But there is also a criminal element among the illegals. Drugs dealers and gangsters who need to be dealt with as well. There are many here that want to do us harm and want to use our citizens to further their illegal activities. They need to be imprisoned or deported.

I see no reason why we can't be sealing our borders and dealing with the individual cases at the same time. The influx has to stop.

[Greg Nelson]

I can remember a few years back where we wintered in Mexico, a young man named Daniel who told me he wanted to go to the USA illegally so he could raise money to buy his folks a home without dirt floors. He said it would cost $7500usd. When I asked him what the $$ was for he said $2500 was to pay off the Mexican border people and $5000 was to pay off the American border patrol. Now years later he works at a hotel in Cancun...but he's learned English!

[graciegirl]

]]Quote Sandtrap.There have been other posts that said compassion means to do nothing for these people like give them the legal opportunity to work but that they knew they would live in a shadow society and be paid substandard wages to do jobs that Americans will not do. Is this the compassion our churches teach us? Is this the compassion we have taught our children and they pass onto their children[/[/U]I]?[/QUOTE]

I have said this to my own children when they were younger and we did not have a lot. Do not confuse emotion with what we can afford to do in this house. We cannot take your friend in to live, no matter how sad it is. We have to take care of the children in this house first.

.

[Sandtrap328]

]]Quote Sandtrap.There have been other posts that said compassion means to do nothing for these people like give them the legal opportunity to work but that they knew they would live in a shadow society and be paid substandard wages to do jobs that Americans will not do. Is this the compassion our churches teach us? Is this the compassion we have taught our children and they pass onto their children[/[/U]I]?

I have said this to my own children when they were younger and we did not have a lot. Do not confuse emotion with what we can afford to do in this house. We cannot take your friend in to live, no matter how sad it is. We have to take care of the children in this house first.

.[/QUOTE]


Nice post but it does not answer the question of "is this the compassion we are taught in church" or what we want our children to teach to their children.

Remember also, the SNAP program was dramatically cut for the feeding of American citizen children. I see the results of this every week at the food pantry where, yes, there are some illegal immigrants who are clients as well as many citizen families. There is a large drawing of Jesus at the pantry. What would He do?

[leftyf]

I really wish the news would do a special on how many jobs that US companies have created in Mexico. I just read that GM is building another 5 billion dollar plant in Mexico. I have been to Monterey, Mexico and seen "Little Detroit", not so little. Why do they need to come to the US when we go there to give them jobs.

[Sandtrap328]

Compassion has been addressed to some extent. How about the details of the executive order. Does it apply to all 11 million in the US? No! Does it provide voting cards? No! Do the 4 million get access to the Affordable Care Act? No! Do they now have the ability to work legally and pay taxes? Yes!

As for states who allow illegal immigrants to obtain driver licenses, good! They, like other non-licensed drivers, will most likely drive anyhow. I would much rather have them licensed and insured if they are on the roads.

If they, like any drug dealer or criminal gets arrested, put them in prison and then, if illegal, deport them after serving their time.

I was told an analogy once about the US being a melting pot. It used to be like an overcooked soup where everything was blended together so all the ingredients tasted the same. Now, it it like a flavorful stew where chunks and pieces all have some of their original flavor but come together for a wonderful tasting new dish.

[graciegirl]

[/B]

I have said this to my own children when they were younger and we did not have a lot. Do not confuse emotion with what we can afford to do in this house. We cannot take your friend in to live, no matter how sad it is. We have to take care of the children in this house first.

.

Quote SANDTRAP
Nice post but it does not answer the question of "is this the compassion we are taught in church" or what we want our children to teach to their children.

Remember also, the SNAP program was dramatically cut for the feeding of American citizen children. I see the results of this every week at the food pantry where, yes, there are some illegal immigrants who are clients as well as many citizen families. There is a large drawing of Jesus at the pantry. What would He do?[/QUOTE]


Anything I say on this forum has been taught to my children.


I believe in it. It is MY values. Perhaps it isn't your values. There are many who do good things silently........and many who never do good things. Only Jesus knows what he would do.

You cannot make people moral through legislation. Doing good things with other peoples money without their consent is not right in my book. If everyone took care of their own WHO COULD take care of their of their own we would not find ourselves moralizing to each other.

[Sandtrap328]

I really wish the news would do a special on how many jobs that US companies have created in Mexico. I just read that GM is building another 5 billion dollar plant in Mexico. I have been to Monterey, Mexico and seen "Little Detroit", not so little. Why do they need to come to the US when we go there to give them jobs.

...is it possibly so the huge corporations can get very cheap labor instead of paying good wages to Americans in America and also avoid taxes?

[graciegirl]

...is it possibly so the huge corporations can get very cheap labor instead of paying good wages to Americans in America and also avoid taxes?


Yes it is possible.

I for one think we should give large corporations tax breaks so that they can employ people in this country and continue to make the products we buy.

[billethkid]

I personally do not think the scenario and question being asked regarding compassion is the heart of the issue.

It assumes the current condition and completely ignores the cause that until stopped will only add to the roles of those who the compassion is being directed.

Why should there be any change whatsoever to the existing law which is not being enforced? How big would the problem be if the law were enforced instead of looking the other way or ignoring it in it's entirety?

Why are the immigration laws treated differently at our southern border than they are at the north, east and western borders?

Why are the visas not enforced as they are for many of our neighbors here in TV from Canada and other countries?

Just to iterate a few of the many questions that remain unanswered.

This subject just like the ACA was unpopular with and not supported overwhelmingly by the American public by landslide magnitude numbers, yet our law makers (our representatives?) go forth and implement anyway.
Just how is that allowed to happen in a democratic society made up of we the people and the representatives are elected to serve and represent we the people?

No I do not buy into being limited to address compassion which may or may not be warranted. Where has the cry for compassion been for the last 20 years?

As others have posted above where is the cry for compassion for those born here or here legally that have the same or worse needs?
And to ignore the issue of compassion for our veterens with all the health care issues, non care, homeless, living in the streets, unemplyed.....and on and on.

No more compassion from me than I have been asked to provide the same folks for the last 20 years. No compassion from me until I see that American and legalized citizens (one in the same!) of the USA are taken care of first.

Like very many things needed today....compassion begins at home.

I don't think I would get too much back lash from those in the church audience.

We know that one of the issues that sets our southern input aside and different from the other borders is there are so many million already here!
We also know that as this population matures, has children and they have children.....some will obviously become citizens by the existing laws and hence will become voters!!!! (a subject for a political forum....somewhere!)

[gomoho]

My compassion goes to my daughter and her Jamaican husband that have spent thousands of dollars to get him here legally and have been working on this for well over a year. If they could have somehow brought him in illegally they would be living happily ever after cause once you are here and married it is much easier. Have taught her to play by the rules and she is learning how it can bite you in the arse. So no I don't have much compassion for the line jumpers.

[Villagesperson]

My compassion goes to my daughter and her Jamaican husband that have spent thousands of dollars to get him here legally and have been working on this for well over a year. If they could have somehow brought him in illegally they would be living happily ever after cause once you are here and married it is much easier. Have taught her to play by the rules and she is learning how it can bite you in the arse. So no I don't have much compassion for the line jumpers.

I think that there are about 4.5 MILLION in the same boat

[Rags123]

I personally do not think the scenario and question being asked regarding compassion is the heart of the issue.

It assumes the current condition and completely ignores the cause that until stopped will only add to the roles of those who the compassion is being directed.

Why should there be any change whatsoever to the existing law which is not being enforced? How big would the problem be if the law were enforced instead of looking the other way or ignoring it in it's entirety?

Why are the immigration laws treated differently at our southern border than they are at the north, east and western borders?

Why are the visas not enforced as they are for many of our neighbors here in TV from Canada and other countries?

Just to iterate a few of the many questions that remain unanswered.

This subject just like the ACA was unpopular with and not supported overwhelmingly by the American public by landslide magnitude numbers, yet our law makers (our representatives?) go forth and implement anyway.
Just how is that allowed to happen in a democratic society made up of we the people and the representatives are elected to serve and represent we the people?

No I do not buy into being limited to address compassion which may or may not be warranted. Where has the cry for compassion been for the last 20 years?

As others have posted above where is the cry for compassion for those born here or here legally that have the same or worse needs?
And to ignore the issue of compassion for our veterens with all the health care issues, non care, homeless, living in the streets, unemplyed.....and on and on.

No more compassion from me than I have been asked to provide the same folks for the last 20 years. No compassion from me until I see that American and legalized citizens (one in the same!) of the USA are taken care of first.

Like very many things needed today....compassion begins at home.

I don't think I would get too much back lash from those in the church audience.

We know that one of the issues that sets our southern input aside and different from the other borders is there are so many million already here!
We also know that as this population matures, has children and they have children.....some will obviously become citizens by the existing laws and hence will become voters!!!! (a subject for a political forum....somewhere!)


Good post. Just add my thinking...this need to try and make everyone feel guilty in the name of an agenda is finally beginning to wear thin in this country. Maybe people will begin to weigh long term ramifications instead of short term agenda gains.

[njbchbum]

There is no/are no executive order[s] on immigration reform!

Obama did not sign an executive order to implement the immigration policy he announced to the nation_Jerome R. Corsi | Politics (http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2014/12/obama-did-not-sign-an-executive-order-to-implement-the-immigration-policy-he-announced-to-the-nation_jerome-r-corsi-2671258.html)

It Is Completely Irrelevant That Obama Never Signed An Executive Order On Immigration - Conn Carroll (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/conncarroll/2014/12/11/it-is-completely-irrelevant-that-obama-never-signed-an-executive-order-on-immigration-n1930571)

[rubicon]

In my view those who wish to enter the United States need to come through the front door. If one recalls immigrants were required to come to Ellis Island to determine if they could enter this country. Those found ill were either treated and sent back to their native lands. Illegals just from a medical standpoint only are placing us at great risk because they have not been innoculated for diseases that we have conquered or control. when the medical epidemics start then we will see o has compassion and who does not?

The lack of assimilation is another problem not only socially but from a national defense because unity is essential in the face of our enemies.

The argument that they will take jobs that Americans won't is a canard. Politician allow it for votes and business people to sustain a low cost work force. The truth is if immigrants didn't take these jobs they would be come more competitive and wages would rise.

The actions taken by the federal government has done nothing but encourage more immigrants to make the journey.

One poster referenced bribes being taken by the border patrol. I believe it and I also believe it is a reflection that these border patrol officers have been demoralized by the inefficient of politicians to resolve this issue and as such figure whether I do or do not take a bribe they are going to cross and stay. Do I agree with this of course not its a criminal act and one committed by law enforcement personnel....throw the book at them

[Rags123]

There is no/are no executive order[s] on immigration reform!

Obama did not sign an executive order to implement the immigration policy he announced to the nation_Jerome R. Corsi | Politics (http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2014/12/obama-did-not-sign-an-executive-order-to-implement-the-immigration-policy-he-announced-to-the-nation_jerome-r-corsi-2671258.html)

It Is Completely Irrelevant That Obama Never Signed An Executive Order On Immigration - Conn Carroll (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/conncarroll/2014/12/11/it-is-completely-irrelevant-that-obama-never-signed-an-executive-order-on-immigration-n1930571)

I had read this and allow me to show my stupidity..

1. The memos he signed have the same affect as his "executive order"....is that correct ?

2. If he then did not tell the truth when he announced it as he did, is this just another of the multitude of ploys ? Why would not the media pick up on this an make it a big story ?

I honestly do not know and hoping someone can clarify. I THINK his memos have the same affect, and maybe I am just overreacting to the sleight of hand.

[tomwed]

President Obama signed his executive order regarding some illegal immigrants. We have seen posts on here bemoaning 11 million illegal immigrants getting free health insurance, voting cards, driver licenses, or other things.

What are the real details of the executive order?

There have been other posts that said compassion means to do nothing for these people like give them the legal opportunity to work but that they knew they would live in a shadow society and be paid substandard wages to do jobs that Americans will not do. Is this the compassion our churches teach us? Is this the compassion we have taught our children and they pass onto their children?

This doesn't answer your question but I think it helps keep wealth in perspective.

August 28, 2014 5:04 PM

MEXICO CITY (AP) — Mexico City's mayor has proposed increasing the country's roughly $5 per-day minimum wage to $6 a day.

Mayor Miguel Angel Mancera suggested Thursday that the city raise the 67.29 peso minimum wage to 82.86 pesos per day. That's about the price of a hamburger meal at a chain restaurant in Mexico.

Mancera says low wages are "at the heart of all of the country's economic and social problems."

{I think it's at the heart of our country's economic and social problems too. In 1970 my NJ college tuition was $350/year and minimum wage was $1.60/hr}

[Rags123]

This doesn't answer your question but I think it helps keep wealth in perspective.

August 28, 2014 5:04 PM

MEXICO CITY (AP) — Mexico City's mayor has proposed increasing the country's roughly $5 per-day minimum wage to $6 a day.

Mayor Miguel Angel Mancera suggested Thursday that the city raise the 67.29 peso minimum wage to 82.86 pesos per day. That's about the price of a hamburger meal at a chain restaurant in Mexico.

Mancera says low wages are "at the heart of all of the country's economic and social problems."


{I think it's at the heart of our country's economic and social problems too. In 1970 my NJ college tuition was $350/year and minimum wage was $1.60/hr}

Cost of living in Mexico City to offer a bit of perspective ?

[graciegirl]

This doesn't answer your question but I think it helps keep wealth in perspective.

August 28, 2014 5:04 PM

MEXICO CITY (AP) — Mexico City's mayor has proposed increasing the country's roughly $5 per-day minimum wage to $6 a day.

Mayor Miguel Angel Mancera suggested Thursday that the city raise the 67.29 peso minimum wage to 82.86 pesos per day. That's about the price of a hamburger meal at a chain restaurant in Mexico.

Mancera says low wages are "at the heart of all of the country's economic and social problems."

{I think it's at the heart of our country's economic and social problems too. In 1970 my NJ college tuition was $350/year and minimum wage was $1.60/hr}


Someone will do the math.

I think college education should be free, but only to those who can hold a decent grade average. I think technical school education should be free too, but only to those who can hold a decent grade average. I think that food and shelter for kids doing these studies should be free too, but not caviar and elegance. Decent food and a clean room.

And if you can't do that then how to survive and maintain yourself independently school should be offered, but not to anyone addicted to drugs.

But Hey...I doubt if anyone would vote for THAT. We waste so much government money on loser students who don't even go to school.

And the rich folks can send their kids to the way too expensive schools and pay for their sororities and fraternities and fancy cars. I know which group I would bet on to succeed.

[tomwed]

Cost of living in Mexico City to offer a bit of perspective ?

If a hamburger is the price of a days wages that's a start.

[billethkid]

If a hamburger is the price of a days wages that's a start.

none of these comparisons are of any value as they stand alone. What is considered low, average and high income in Mexico.

What is earned there means nothing against USA incomes/values!

[Rags123]

If a hamburger is the price of a days wages that's a start.

Since you did not supply a link to where your information came from, I cannot comment on that however...

"Indices Difference Info
Consumer Prices in United States are 85.47% higher than in Mexico
Consumer Prices Including Rent in United States are 112.21% higher than in Mexico
Rent Prices in United States are 211.03% higher than in Mexico
Restaurant Prices in United States are 106.12% higher than in Mexico
Groceries Prices in United States are 92.51% higher than in Mexico
Local Purchasing Power in United States is 132.16% higher than in Mexico"

Cost Of Living Comparison Between Mexico And United States (http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Mexico&country2=United+States)

Mexico City is #21 on the list of the Worlds cheapest cities.

25 Of The World's Cheapest Places To Live (http://list25.com/25-of-the-worlds-cheapest-places-to-live/)

No big deal but I did not see any relevance with your post to the thread topic, and I really like to keep things in their proper context.

[Sandtrap328]

In my view those who wish to enter the United States need to come through the front door. If one recalls immigrants were required to come to Ellis Island to determine if they could enter this country. Those found ill were either treated and sent back to their native lands. Illegals just from a medical standpoint only are placing us at great risk because they have not been innoculated for diseases that we have conquered or control. when the medical epidemics start then we will see o has compassion and who does not?

The lack of assimilation is another problem not only socially but from a national defense because unity is essential in the face of our enemies.

The argument that they will take jobs that Americans won't is a canard. Politician allow it for votes and business people to sustain a low cost work force. The truth is if immigrants didn't take these jobs they would be come more competitive and wages would rise.

The actions taken by the federal government has done nothing but encourage more immigrants to make the journey.

One poster referenced bribes being taken by the border patrol. I believe it and I also believe it is a reflection that these border patrol officers have been demoralized by the inefficient of politicians to resolve this issue and as such figure whether I do or do not take a bribe they are going to cross and stay. Do I agree with this of course not its a criminal act and one committed by law enforcement personnel....throw the book at them

Where is the salt shaker?
1. Diseases? I have not heard of one immigrant who was caught spreading a disease. Please illuminate me.

2. Being social is necessary to national security? Huh?

3. Immigrants do not take jobs that Americans do not do? Absolutely true. Read a book called "Postville - a clash of cultures".

4. Bribes? On the Mexican side, maybe. On the American side - you are denigrating US law enforcement officers with slanderous talk like this.

[Rags123]

Where is the salt shaker?
1. Diseases? I have not heard of one immigrant who was caught spreading a disease. Please illuminate me.

2. Being social is necessary to national security? Huh?

3. Immigrants do not take jobs that Americans do not do? Absolutely true. Read a book called "Postville - a clash of cultures".

4. Bribes? On the Mexican side, maybe. On the American side - you are denigrating US law enforcement officers with slanderous talk like this.

1. Disease....

"Communicable diseases continue to be a problem at the New Mexico facility built to house illegal immigrant families surging across the U.S.-Mexico border, and the immigrants themselves aren’t taking their own health care very seriously, according to an audit released Monday."

Read more: Disease plagues illegal immigrants; lack of medications, basic hygiene blamed - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/6/diseases-still-problem-illegal-immigrant-families/#ixzz3LucZXg3F)
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

"MCALLEN, TX - There’s a growing health concern with hundreds of illegal immigrants crossing over into southern Texas.

U.S. Border Patrol agents are worried that what's coming over into the U.S. could harm everyone.

This time the focus is not on the women and children that are crossing over in droves.

Agents are worrying about a viral outbreak.

“We are sending people everywhere. The average person doesn't know what's going on down here,” said Border Patrol agent and Rio Grande Valley Union representative Chris Cabrera."

Cabrera says agents are seeing illegal immigrants come over with contagious infections."

Undocumented Immigrants bringing diseases across border? - ABC15 Arizona (http://www.abc15.com/news/national/immigrants-bringing-diseases-across-border)

2. Assimilation...

"Beyond the economic arguments, legalization and immigration have raised important issues of culture, national identity, and citizenship. Assimilation has been an important theme in America’s immigration history. Previous waves of immigrants and their children have been expected to support themselves in the economy, learn English, and become active participants in American society. As a rule, immigrants have done just that throughout our history—despite doubts by contemporary critics about each wave of “new” immigrants. A broader concern about immigration reform is that newly legalized Mexican immigrants and even their descendants will fail to assimilate into American society. Scholars such as Samuel Huntington and Victor Davis Hanson argue that Mexican migration today is unique in U.S. history in its size and social impact.

They and others contend that, unlike previous immigrant groups, Mexican migrants retain close ties to their nearby homeland, dominate other immigrant groups in sheer numbers, and concentrate geographically into insular, Spanish-speaking communities that slow their assimilation. On closer examination, none of those concerns are serious enough to warrant increased restrictions on migration from Mexico. "

Mexican Migration, Legalization, and Assimilation | Cato Institute (http://www.cato.org/publications/speeches/mexican-migration-legalization-assimilation)

3. Taking of jobs....

"That immigrants take the jobs of American-born citizens is “something that virtually no learned person believes in,” Alex Nowrasteh, an immigration expert at the libertarian Cato Institute, said at a Thursday panel. “It’s sort of a silly thing.”

Most economists don’t find immigrants driving down wages or jobs, the Brookings Institution's Michael Greenstone and Adam Looney wrote in May. In fact, “on average, immigrant workers increase the opportunities and incomes of Americans,” they write. Foreign-born workers don’t affect the employment rate positively or negatively, according to a 2011 analysis from the conservative American Enterprise Institute. And a study released Wednesday by the liberal Center for American Progress suggests that granting legal status to undocumented workers might even create jobs."

Left and Right Agree: Immigrants Don't Take American Jobs - NationalJournal.com (http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/left-and-right-agree-immigrants-don-t-take-american-jobs-20130322)

Bribes....

"Federal law enforcement officials are investigating a series of bribery and smuggling cases in what they fear is a sign of increased corruption among officers who patrol the Mexican border.

Two brothers who worked for the U.S. Border Patrol disappeared in June while under investigation for smuggling drugs and immigrants, and are believed to have fled to Mexico. In the past month, two agents from Customs and Border Protection, which guards border checkpoints, were indicted for taking bribes to allow illegal immigrants to enter the United States. And earlier this month, two Border Patrol supervisory agents pleaded guilty to accepting nearly $200,000 in payoffs to release smugglers and illegal immigrants who had been detained.

Authorities say two factors are causing concern that larger problems may develop: The massive buildup of Border Patrol agents in recent years has led to worries that hiring standards have been lowered; and, as smugglers demand higher and higher fees to bring illegal immigrants into the United States, their efforts to bribe those guarding the border have intensified."

Bribery At Border Worries Officials (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/14/AR2006071401525.html)

"Bribery of federal and local officials by Mexican smugglers is rising sharply, and with it the fear that a culture of corruption is taking hold along the 2,000-mile border from Brownsville, Texas, to San Diego.

At least 200 public employees have been charged with helping to move narcotics or illegal immigrants across the U.S.-Mexican border since 2004, at least double the illicit activity documented in prior years, a Times examination of public records has found. Thousands more are under investigation.

Criminal charges have been brought against Border Patrol agents, local police, a county sheriff, motor vehicle clerks, an FBI supervisor, immigration examiners, prison guards, school district officials and uniformed personnel of every branch of the U.S. military, among others. The vast majority have pleaded guilty or been convicted."

Mexico's Drug War - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/local/la-na-bordercorruption23-2006jan23-story.html#page=1)

[Sandtrap328]

As the reply states, there is very little issue with health concerns for immigrants, assimilation is a non- issue and certainly not a national security issue, they are not taking jobs from Americans who want those jobs, and there have been some dishonest law enforcement officers on the borders.

Good post. Thanks for the lynx.

[Rags123]

A little bit more on jobs....

"the defenders of illegal aliens — ethnic advocacy groups, employer groups, and church-based groups — often assert that illegal aliens only take jobs unwanted by U.S. workers. This is patently false because they are working in jobs in which U.S. workers are also employed — whether in construction, agricultural harvesting or service professions.
If the hiring of illegal alien workers is prevalent in a sector of the economy, as it has become the case in seasonal crop agriculture, the willingness of foreign workers to accept lower wages because of their illegal status acts to depress wages and working conditions for all workers in that occupation. This in turn makes employment in that sector less attractive to U.S. workers who have other options. The result is a form of circular logic, i.e., the more that illegal aliens are able to take jobs in a sector of the economy, the less attractive the sector becomes to U.S. workers, and the greater appearance of validity to the lie that only illegal aliens are willing to take jobs in the sector. Only by enforcing the immigration law against employment of illegal alien workers can this spiral to the bottom be broken and employers forced to restore wages and working conditions to levels that will attract U.S. workers and legal foreign workers."


Illegal Aliens Taking U.S. Jobs (2013) (http://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-aliens-taking-u-s-jobs)

This are is the most closely debated. The other factors brought up by RUBICON are right on target.

[Rags123]

As the reply states, there is very little issue with health concerns for immigrants, assimilation is a non- issue and certainly not a national security issue, they are not taking jobs from Americans who want those jobs, and there have been some dishonest law enforcement officers on the borders.

Good post. Thanks for the lynx.

Not sure what you read, but RUBICON had all GREAT points

[rubicon]

Where is the salt shaker?
1. Diseases? I have not heard of one immigrant who was caught spreading a disease. Please illuminate me.

2. Being social is necessary to national security? Huh?

3. Immigrants do not take jobs that Americans do not do? Absolutely true. Read a book called "Postville - a clash of cultures".

4. Bribes? On the Mexican side, maybe. On the American side - you are denigrating US law enforcement officers with slanderous talk like this.

1. So you would support the continuation of illegals entering the country and not knowing if they are carrying TB measles etc?

2. Being engaged in America's security is the issue...illegals are in the shadows, here just long enough to send money home and then return to their native lands

3. Immigrants do take jobs Americans would do. Again the problem is that greed is filling those jobs with people who work for less. Absent immigrants the wage market would be force to rise to fill demand. Again government people wants votes and business people want low wages

4. One poster referenced bribes by border patrol as expressed by a Mexcian wishing to come to America. I replied that I could believe it. I believe it is naive to think that as corrupt as it is along the Mexican border that some taking bribes is a fact. I mean loo at the number of politicians in this country that take them everyday.

My only point is that there is a right way to enter this nation and a wrong way and the right way is through the front door. It should be obvious why that is important to America.

By the way I believe many of the people coming across the border are good hard working people and would make welcome additions to our country. Its just the way they are entering

Personal Best Regards:

[gomoho]

I think that there are about 4.5 MILLION in the same boat

Thank you for you kind words and understanding.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

[/B]

I have said this to my own children when they were younger and we did not have a lot. Do not confuse emotion with what we can afford to do in this house. We cannot take your friend in to live, no matter how sad it is. We have to take care of the children in this house first.

.


Nice post but it does not answer the question of "is this the compassion we are taught in church" or what we want our children to teach to their children.

Remember also, the SNAP program was dramatically cut for the feeding of American citizen children. I see the results of this every week at the food pantry where, yes, there are some illegal immigrants who are clients as well as many citizen families. There is a large drawing of Jesus at the pantry. What would He do?[/QUOTE]

Perhaps he might tell them, "You're sin is forgiven. Repent. Go back to your home country and do not sin again."

[tomwed]

Since you did not supply a link to where your information came from, I cannot comment on that however...

"Indices Difference Info
Consumer Prices in United States are 85.47% higher than in Mexico
Consumer Prices Including Rent in United States are 112.21% higher than in Mexico
Rent Prices in United States are 211.03% higher than in Mexico
Restaurant Prices in United States are 106.12% higher than in Mexico
Groceries Prices in United States are 92.51% higher than in Mexico
Local Purchasing Power in United States is 132.16% higher than in Mexico"

Cost Of Living Comparison Between Mexico And United States (http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_countries_result.jsp?country1=Mexico&country2=United+States)

Mexico City is #21 on the list of the Worlds cheapest cities.

25 Of The World's Cheapest Places To Live (http://list25.com/25-of-the-worlds-cheapest-places-to-live/)

No big deal but I did not see any relevance with your post to the thread topic, and I really like to keep things in their proper context.

follow the link click here (http://news.yahoo.com/mexico-city-sees-raise-5-per-day-minimum-155228948.html)

No big deal but if life is so good in Mexico why would so many leave their loved ones to work here. Three generations ago that's why my family left Ireland, Germany and Italy. Me and mine owe them a lot. Maybe we owe them our lives. How brave they were. I don't think I would be as brave.

Would you?

[Rags123]

follow the link click here (http://news.yahoo.com/mexico-city-sees-raise-5-per-day-minimum-155228948.html)

No big deal but if life is so good in Mexico why would so many leave their loved ones to work here. Three generations ago that's why my family left Ireland, Germany and Italy. Me and mine owe them a lot. Maybe we owe them our lives. How brave they were. I don't think I would be as brave.

Would you?

Listen, this thread is about amnesty for millions of ILLEGAL immigrants. I NEVER said life was good in Mexico. You made a statement about the minimum wage in Mexico City which had nothing to do with the thread.

I simply thought your statement with no backup or context needed some. Things said out of context can be construed a lot of different ways. I simply put your fiscal comment in the proper context. That was it.

I literally did not make the comment you attribute to me...that life is good in Mexico or even imply it....I simply think if you post something like that it begs for relativity and that is all I tried to do.

Of course people come here for a better life and future, but anyone reading your post about the minimum wage IN MEXICO relates it to here and that is not the case.

That is it...nothing fancy. Just conversations need to be in the proper context or they get way off the mark.

It is the same thing as to your remarks on past cost of college. That has to be put into the context of how much salary is today versus then. NOTHING is that simple.

PS...all of us have similar stories about past generations for sure. Did your family come legally or illegally. WE still have 4.5 million people who have paid money and are still waiting to enter the front door and do it legally.

[tomwed]

You begged for a link and I answered. I agree that I should have foot noted my source.

It is the same thing as to your remarks on past cost of college. That has to be put into the context of how much salary is today versus then.


Sorry I assumed everyone knows what the minimum wage is now and knows what college tuition is now. Do you need help finding that information?

PS...all of us have similar stories about past generations for sure. Did your family come legally or illegally. WE still have 4.5 million people who have paid money and are still waiting to enter the front door and do it legally.


I clearly have a lot to learn. My family came in through Ellis Island. They were healthy enough to stay. How do you pay your way in?

Don't be angry. Life is too short. I feel lucky that I am a boomer and that life has been easier for me than my folks, and for them again their folks. I wish I could pass that down to my kin and others who see America as a chance for a better life through hard work.

[Rags123]

You begged for a link and I answered. I agree that I should have foot noted my source.

It is the same thing as to your remarks on past cost of college. That has to be put into the context of how much salary is today versus then.


Sorry I assumed everyone knows what the minimum wage is now and knows what college tuition is now. Do you need help finding that information?

PS...all of us have similar stories about past generations for sure. Did your family come legally or illegally. WE still have 4.5 million people who have paid money and are still waiting to enter the front door and do it legally.


I clearly have a lot to learn. My family came in through Ellis Island. They were healthy enough to stay. How do you pay your way in?

Don't be angry. Life is too short. I am lucky that I am a boomer and that life has been easier for my than my folks, and for them again their folks. I wish I could pass that down to my kin and others who see America as a chance for a better life through hard work.


I am not angry...holy cow...

First on the costs...

"The funding for Obama's executive action is coming through the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, a fee, not tax based agency under the jurisdiction of Homeland Security. Because the USCIS is a fee based agency, many have argued Congress cannot defund it. According to the Congressional Research Service, Congress does in fact have the ability to defund the agency through the appropriations process. "

But lets put that aside for a minute. The larger question is, who is paying these fees? Millions of legal immigrants are paying these fees, which are now being reallocated by the executive branch to legalize millions of illegal immigrants who have been living in the United States for years while failing to go through proper and long established legal channels to obtain citizenship or other legal status. From the USCIS.gov website:"

Cruel Reality: Obama Paying for Illegal Amnesty With Fees Paid by Legal Immigrants - Katie Pavlich (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/12/11/cruel-reality-obama-paying-for-illegal-amnesty-with-fees-paid-by-legal-immigrants-n1930521)

"years to happen, set immigrants and their families back thousands of dollars, and in some cases, all of that time and money is for naught.
But those who have successfully gone through the process, like Sheila and Josue Fuentes, say, “It’s definitely worth it.”
Sheila, 26, and Josue Fuentes, 33, of Fairfield, invested nearly $4,000 in application fees before Josue, a native of Venezuela, became a naturalized citizen on June 27. They decided to not retain an immigration attorney, said Sheila Fuentes, who grew up in West Chester Twp., because their cost could have easily been doubled “and for a young couple just starting out, that would have been difficult.”

Immigration process lengthy, costly | www.journal-news.com (http://www.journal-news.com/news/news/immigration-process-lengthy-costly/nhQsT/)

"In April we called on legislators and the Obama administration to remove one of the biggest obstacles legal immigrants face: the cost of applying for citizenship. Legal permanent residents have followed the rules and are eligible for citizenship. However, their path to citizenship is hindered by an onerous fee structure intended to raise revenue, but has instead led to a sharp decline in naturalization rates. Today it costs $680 to apply for citizenship; up from $225 in 1999. In 2011, only about 8 percent of eligible legal immigrants applied for citizenship. We think the application fee is a factor in low application rates for citizenship.

We met with the president and with Secretary Johnson last spring to discuss implementing sensible minimum and maximum application fees. We also suggested creating a sliding fee scale based on household income and family size, and taking into consideration other family factors, like the age of an applicant and whether an applicant who is a minor is enrolled in school.

It's time to offer sensible application fees to legal immigrants applying for U.S. citizenship."

Application fee for U.S. citizenship is unaffordable - Chicago Tribune (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-illegal-immigration-emanuel-guietteriz-perspec--20140814-story.html)

I know what the costs of college tuition is today and I know the minimum wage thus will not need your help. You obviously missed my point about context on your min wage post

I just do not like threads like this who tend to want to make us feel uncomfortable or guilty about this situation. I feel really bad for those who are waiting in line to do it legally and I do not like the proliferation of false information to tug at our heartstrings. We are a country of laws, and we need to enforce our laws.

This thread was set up around the theme of compassion and that avenue of making americans feel , as I said, is very much overdone.

[kcrazorbackfan]

President Obama signed his executive order regarding some illegal immigrants. We have seen posts on here bemoaning 11 million illegal immigrants getting free health insurance, voting cards, driver licenses, or other things.

What are the real details of the executive order?

There have been other posts that said compassion means to do nothing for these people like give them the legal opportunity to work but that they knew they would live in a shadow society and be paid substandard wages to do jobs that Americans will not do. Is this the compassion our churches teach us? Is this the compassion we have taught our children and they pass onto their children?

Do you really not understand who is paying for these 11 million ILLEGAL immigrants? Maybe the ones that are bemoaning these 11 million ILLEGAL immigrants are not flush with money as you may be?

[perrjojo]

Do you live in a border state? Have you ever lived in a border state? Have you ever shopped in a Walmart where all signs are in English and Spanish? Have you ever lived in a U.S. city where most residents did not speak English? Have you ever lived in a U.S. city where the non English speaking population has increased by 300% over the past 15 years. Have you lived in US city where Engligh is the minority language? If you answer NO to any of these questions, you do not really understand the problem. I have been there, done that. When 3rd generation families still do not speak English...we have a problem. No, this is not racist...this is a America where we speak Englush...I do not want to press one for English. I believe in LEGAL IMMIGRATION.

[Chi-Town]

Millions of illegal immigrants. Hmmm. Lets step back in time and ask "How would Ronald Reagan handle this?"

[Rags123]

Millions of illegal immigrants. Hmmm. Lets step back in time and ask "How would Ronald Reagan handle this?"

Ahhh yes the old "Reagan and Bush did it also" item....can count on it...

"President Obama repeatedly claimed that there is presidential precedent for the executive actions he took on immigration. But are the actions Obama announced really the “same kinds of actions” taken by past presidents?
Obama’s use of executive actions to defer deportation for up to 5 million people living in the country illegally relies on similar legal principles used by past presidents, although the issue of presidential authority may ultimately have to be decided in federal court. But there are some fundamental differences between Obama’s actions and those taken by past presidents.
The actions taken by Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush — examples often cited by White House officials — were attempts to address ambiguities in an immigration law that was passed by Congress. Obama’s executive actions are different. They are a response to congressional failure to pass a law, and they affect a far greater number of immigrants currently living in the country illegally.
In his prime time speech, Obama twice emphasized that he was simply taking the same kinds of actions that were taken by past presidents."

Obama’s Actions ‘Same’ as Past Presidents? (http://www.factcheck.org/2014/11/obamas-actions-same-as-past-presidents/)

Actually, there were done in concert with and in discussions with and approved by the congress.

"In 1986, faced with a large and growing population of illegal aliens, Congress created a new, time-limited form of immigration relief for certain aliens who, among other things, had to have come to the United States more than six years previously. This is the much ballyhooed Reagan amnesty. It was, unfortunately, riddled with fraud in its execution, the uncovering of which is still roiling the immigrant community. But even setting that aside it left President Reagan with a moral dilemma. Congress’ amnesty was large—just shy of 3 million people—and it had the unanticipated effect of splitting up freshly-legalized parents from their illegally-present minor children who did not qualify for relief.

So Reagan, seeing this family unity problem that Congress had not anticipated or addressed when it granted amnesty to millions of parents, issued an executive order to defer the removal of children of the people who had applied for immigration amnesty under Congress’ new law. He allowed those children to remain in the United States while their parents’ applications for amnesty were pending. A few years later, Bush 41 extended this bit of administrative grace to these same children plus certain spouses of the aliens who had actually been granted immigration amnesty under Congress’ new law.

Congress, though it had desired to grant amnesty, had not considered and not included the spouses and children. Importantly, nor had it excluded them. So Presidents Reagan and Bush 41 filled that statutory gap. “What do we do with spouses and children?” INS asked. “Well,” the executive branch leaders said, “defer their deportation. Decline to exercise your lawful authority for the particular cases that are related to those Congress has offered amnesty.”

These Reagan and Bush 41 executive actions were obviously different than what Obama is doing now. They were trying to implement a complicated amnesty that Congress had already passed. Congress’ action was a form of immigration relief that obviously fit within our constitutional system. Moreover, Congress left a gap when it came to immediate family members, including minor children, of individuals who qualified for the amnesty. Presidents Reagan and Bush 41 forbore from deporting people in that select group."

You might have missed that on MSNBC as it never seems to be reported.

Still wondering why President Obama did not actually issue the order being discussed ?????

[Chi-Town]

Sounds like Reagan, Bush 41, and Obama showed some compassion. Nice.

[tomwed]

I know what the costs of college tuition is today and I know the minimum wage thus will not need your help. You obviously missed my point about context on your min wage post

i did

[wmkhut]

As one who has paid Taxes all my life and currently pay $1300 for health care, i have a problem with going to the emergency Room and waiting in the back of the line of Non US citizens and Welfare people, And when I do get in I have to pay my $2500 deductable for my care and Guess who pays nothing ! Guess who's paying the cost of everyone in front of the line. Me thats who. great Country.

[tomwed]

As one who has paid Taxes all my life and currently pay $1300 for health care, i have a problem with going to the emergency Room and waiting in the back of the line of Non US citizens and Welfare people, And when I do get in I have to pay my $2500 deductable for my care and Guess who pays nothing ! Guess who's paying the cost of everyone in front of the line. Me thats who. great Country.
i would be angry too.

[Sandtrap328]

No one has answered the question originally asked.

Exactly what are in the details of the action signed by the President AND what does it exclude the affected immigrants from doing or obtaining?

[gomoho]

No one has answered the question originally asked.

Exactly what are in the details of the action signed by the President AND what does it exclude the affected immigrants from doing or obtaining?

Even if I knew the details it wouldn't matter 'cause things change very rapidly with this administration and what I told you today could be different tomorrow - "if you like your doctor you can keep him".

[Sandtrap328]

Some of the details were allowing around 4 million immigrants to get legal jobs and thus would contribute by paying taxes. They will not get the right to vote.

Some states allow illegal immigrants to get driver licenses. Good! I would rather know they are licensed and insured when driving.

[billethkid]

Some of the details were allowing around 4 million immigrants to get legal jobs and thus would contribute by paying taxes. They will not get the right to vote.

Some states allow illegal immigrants to get driver licenses. Good! I would rather know they are licensed and insured when driving.

I guess we will just have to wait until the bill is signed/passed to get the details of what is in it or not!

As far as giving drivers licenses I suppose there are some positives, I don't know and don't need to know them. I feel every concession made, what ever the reasoning, is just another reason to incent them to no legalize their position in the USA.

Maybe if more requirements were a part of the granting of the benefits they are accorded maybe some would entertain becoming citizens instead of wards of the system.

There simply needs to be firm criteria to allow their living in our country just like there are rules for all other countries residents who either visit us temporarily or who undertake the long process of becoming a citizen.

There is no acceptable reasoning why immigrants from the the border to the south of us is just short of wide open and out of control....NONE.
And why is it that existing laws are not being enforced and why is that acceptable to so many Americans?

How about we enforce the existing laws first. SHUT DOWN the borders to illegal entry.
Then have a discussion with the American citizens about what to do with those already in our country. Now why is that so logical and reasonable and yet so unacceptable to those who supposedly represent us and thos who support them?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

My compassion goes to my daughter and her Jamaican husband that have spent thousands of dollars to get him here legally and have been working on this for well over a year. If they could have somehow brought him in illegally they would be living happily ever after cause once you are here and married it is much easier. Have taught her to play by the rules and she is learning how it can bite you in the arse. So no I don't have much compassion for the line jumpers.

As I said, I had the same issue with my Filipina wife. It took a tremendous amount of money, time and effort to get her here.

One of the problems is the marriage for conveniences that go on in some of these third world countries. An American goes to a foreign country and gets paid to marry one of their citizen so that he or she can bring their "spouse" here. Once here, they get divorced. It used to happen a lot and I can certainly understand the government having to crack down on it.

My wife now has her "permanent" (meaning ten year) resident status. Her first "conditional" permanent resident status had to be renewed after two years at the cost of about $600. Her current "permanent" status has to be renewed after ten years at another absurd amount of money if she doesn't get her citizenship. We have been married almost four years now.

Certainly, if this were some kind of sham marriage it would have ended by now. Why not just give her citizenship and get another case off of Immigration's workload and let them focus on real problems instead of harassing the people doing the legal way?

The whole system, like many of the things that government does is a mess.

[njbchbum]

No one has answered the question originally asked.

Exactly what are in the details of the action signed by the President AND what does it exclude the affected immigrants from doing or obtaining?

Did you miss the answer in post # 17 or did you simply not agree with it and disregard it?


There is no/are no executive order[s] on immigration reform!

Watchdog: Executive-order ploy ‘criminal conspiracy’ (http://www.wnd.com/2014/12/watchdog-executive-order-ploy-criminal-conspiracy/#)!

It Is Completely Irrelevant That Obama Never Signed An Executive Order On Immigration - Conn Carroll (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/conncarroll/2014/12/11/it-is-completely-irrelevant-that-obama-never-signed-an-executive-order-on-immigration-n1930571)

[Sandtrap328]

Did you miss the answer in post # 17 or did you simply not agree with it and disregard it?


There is no/are no executive order[s] on immigration reform!

Watchdog: Executive-order ploy ‘criminal conspiracy’ (http://www.wnd.com/2014/12/watchdog-executive-order-ploy-criminal-conspiracy/#)!

It Is Completely Irrelevant That Obama Never Signed An Executive Order On Immigration - Conn Carroll (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/conncarroll/2014/12/11/it-is-completely-irrelevant-that-obama-never-signed-an-executive-order-on-immigration-n1930571)

I said "action signed by the President".