what is up with the urge to plant palms?

[joldnol]

I understand many of you are new to Fla when you move in but there is a reason you see hardwoods in the country and not palms. Leave the oaks on your property.....you be grateful in ten years. The bio diversity of your neighborhood will thank you too.

A humble Villager and native Floridian

[fred53]

I understand many of you are new to Fla when you move in but there is a reason you see hardwoods in the country and not palms. Leave the oaks on your property.....you be grateful in ten years. The bio diversity of your neighborhood will thank you too.

A humble Villager and native Floridian

if that is what you want. We have a live oak that came with the property and we'll leave it because it's native, but I do not look forward to raking the leaves if I live long enough to do so(it also makes grass growing a lot more difficult). There is plenty of plant diversity here in TV and if you want a palm to underscore the tropical ambiance I say go for it.

[Jgg7933]

I understand many of you are new to Fla when you move in but there is a reason you see hardwoods in the country and not palms. Leave the oaks on your property.....you be grateful in ten years. The bio diversity of your neighborhood will thank you too.

A humble Villager and native Floridian

We moved here 5 years ago and only have 2 trees that produce leaves that fall off in the FALL. My last house in Georgia was FULL of trees and in FALL the lawn was covered with leaves weekly. I am sick of Leaves! Less (or No) leaves was a "benefit" for us Moving to Florida. My 2 trees that produce leaves are scheduled to be cut down in January!

A Happy and soon to be "Leafless" Floridian!

[sunnyatlast]

There is no filthier tree than the florida oak that drops bushels of leaves, tiny sticks, and tiny acorns that rot into brown, tarry goo on the driveway and on the grass, which the rotting oak leaves/acorns kill.

In the pastures, golf course roughs, and along roadsides, they're good to keep. But in a residential yard, they are a cleaning nightmare for 8 months, and a grass-killing menace!

Thank you to everyone who's planted palms!

[Barefoot]

I understand many of you are new to Fla when you move in but there is a reason you see hardwoods in the country and not palms. Leave the oaks on your property.....you be grateful in ten years. The bio diversity of your neighborhood will thank you too.

A humble Villager and native Floridian

We've only been in TV for seven years. We are not native Floridians.
However we love our double Sylvester Palm. Love it!!

[Bonanza]

I've been in Florida over 30 years and by design, we do not have one palm on our property. I don't know what the problem is with the leaves falling in the fall. Most residents don't do their own lawns anyway, so it isn't a problem. For those that do, a mulching mower will take care of the problem and the leaves here or there can be blown off the planted areas. Regarding the dense shade that oaks and other shade trees provide, there are many solutions to the sparse grass growing underneath them and that is not an issue.

I happen to like the birds and wildlife that many flowering trees and oaks attract. On the other hand, palms attract cockroaches in particular and other insects, and rats choose to live in their canopy. Palms also require much more maintenance than trees, which translates into $$$.

Many residents have moved here from the north and west and want the so-called tropical look of palms. Trees provide personal shade and shade from the hot sun for your house. In turn, because of the shade they provide, they do help with your electric bill.

[jblum315]

I've been in Florida over 30 years and by design, we do not have one palm on our property. I don't know what the problem is with the leaves falling in the fall. Most residents don't do their own lawns anyway, so it isn't a problem. For those that do, a mulching mower will take care of the problem and the leaves here or there can be blown off the planted areas. Regarding the dense shade that oaks and other shade trees provide, there are many solutions to the sparse grass growing underneath them and that is not an issue.

I happen to like the birds and wildlife that many flowering trees and oaks attract. On the other hand, palms attract cockroaches in particular and other insects, and rats choose to live in their canopy. Palms also require much more maintenance than trees, which translates into $$$.

Many residents have moved here from the north and west and want the so-called tropical look of palms. Trees provide personal shade and shade from the hot sun for your house. In turn, because of the shade they provide, they do help with your electric bill.

I completely agree. If I want to see palms, all I need to do is look around. I do not want my own personal palms!

[DougB]

Have no idea why someone would be worried or even care what kind of tree someone plants in their own yard.

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Have no idea why someone would be worried or even care what kind of tree someone plants in their own yard.

I couldn't agree more! It's your yard plant what you like and enjoy it! Everyone else :click:

[Bay Kid]

In 20 years the little 5,000 sq.ft. lot and home will be overwhelmed by the giant beautiful oak. This will also greatly effect the neighbor. Love those trees just not in a small yard.

[Bogie Shooter]

Have no idea why someone would be worried or even care what kind of tree someone plants in their own yard.

It does get kind of silly........................

[Uptown Girl]

…. palms attract cockroaches in particular and other insects, and rats choose to live in their canopy.
[/B]

Pruning keeps rodents away!

Palm trees with slumping, dead fronds CAN attract pests such as rats, roaches, bats and snakes. Rodents may nest and breed within THICK layers of dead fronds in untrimmed palm trees and have easy access to your roof and home, especially if the fronds hang near your roofline. Sensible plant location, careful, periodic palm tree trimming and removal of fruit will help prevent unwanted pests on your property.

Critters would much prefer 'brown' vegetation to nest or hide in as it (unlike green healthy fronds) doesn't move much and provides camouflage and shade.

[redwitch]

Gotta admit that I loathe palms. Most Northern Californians do. The palms in SoCal have ten feet of root for every foot of tree. They've drained two aquifers in LA. I really don't get the desire to introduce non-native plants, especially palms, into an area but people are going to do what they like unless not permitted legally (and there are too many laws as it is). So, for those who want them, enjoy. For those who don't, just shrug your shoulders, wince as you go by them and keep on truckin.

[wudda1955]

I understand many of you are new to Fla when you move in but there is a reason you see hardwoods in the country and not palms. Leave the oaks on your property.....you be grateful in ten years. The bio diversity of your neighborhood will thank you too.

A humble Villager and native Floridian

I lived up north with eight huge oak trees on my little 1/3 acre. That was 20 years of raking leaves. Lots of leaves. We swore we'd never have oak trees again.

So, it's palm trees here in Florida. We bought new, and didn't have any big trees--oak or otherwise. We're very happy with our decision to have only palm trees. We love them.

[jimbo2012]

We love our palms, have several varieties (about 12) that grow to different heights.

Altogether about 30 of them, the mule is our favorite.

[CFrance]

I wish Mansfield had not planted our neighbor's palm right next to our house, so close that the fronds scratch our roof if he does not keep that side of it trimmed. He did, but now there are new neighbors.

[Serenoa]

I understand many of you are new to Fla when you move in but there is a reason you see hardwoods in the country and not palms. Leave the oaks on your property.....you be grateful in ten years. The bio diversity of your neighborhood will thank you too.

A humble Villager and native Floridian

Not sure where the OP is looking when he's out in the country, since there are NATIVE sabal palmettos growing all over Florida.

I currently have five different species of palms growing here in Birmingham and when we finally move to TV I certainly hope our neighbors don't have a strong dislike for palms. I can guarantee that our property will be quite palmy, in fact I hope to have a nice variety of different palms similar to what Jimbo is growing. Can hardly wait for the day........

[justjim]

There is no filthier tree than the florida oak that drops bushels of leaves, tiny sticks, and tiny acorns that rot into brown, tarry goo on the driveway and on the grass, which the rotting oak leaves/acorns kill.

In the pastures, golf course roughs, and along roadsides, they're good to keep. But in a residential yard, they are a cleaning nightmare for 8 months, and a grass-killing menace!

Thank you to everyone who's planted palms!

Spot on. I have a friend who paid more $$$$ for a lot with a big Florida Oak. He is "sorry " now for all the reasons you point out.

[joldnol]

First, I wasn't "worried" about what others plant but rather it was a simple question to which many answered. Do what you wish to your own property. Secondly, many responded with the leaf issue being a problem which was beautifully answered by another poster. Yes I have seen Palmettos growing in Florida. I have one I fight back regularly (under my live oak) in Jacksonville. The type of palms folks plant here are not native to this area but if it gives you pleasure go for it.

[Bonny]

Have no idea why someone would be worried or even care what kind of tree someone plants in their own yard.
Yep, I agree. That's part of what brought me to Florida. Always wanted to live among the palm trees !! :)

[sunnyatlast]

I've been in Florida over 30 years and by design, we do not have one palm on our property. I don't know what the problem is with the leaves falling in the fall. Most residents don't do their own lawns anyway, so it isn't a problem. For those that do, a mulching mower will take care of the problem and the leaves here or there can be blown off the planted areas. Regarding the dense shade that oaks and other shade trees provide, there are many solutions to the sparse grass growing underneath them and that is not an issue.

I happen to like the birds and wildlife that many flowering trees and oaks attract. On the other hand, palms attract cockroaches in particular and other insects, and rats choose to live in their canopy. Palms also require much more maintenance than trees, which translates into $$$.

Many residents have moved here from the north and west and want the so-called tropical look of palms. Trees provide personal shade and shade from the hot sun for your house. In turn, because of the shade they provide, they do help with your electric bill.

Regarding the two phrases highlighted in red above:

1. Obviously you haven't lived with one of these florida oaks shading your driveway, yard and/or house. Contrary to your phrase implying these florida oaks drop leaves only in the fall, their leaves AND GAZILLIONS OF TINY ACORNS that rot quickly do not "fall in the fall". They fall for 7-8 months, from about July thru March!!

Unless you sweep and wash the driveway and sidewalk up to the front door every day, all the black/brown filth and rot from the leaves, tiny sticks and acorns get walked into the house or garage on shoe soles, and not everybody (especially seniors with physical problems) wants to go thru removing their shoes every time they walk into the house or garage. It is a constant mess to clean up to not have it tracked in and dirty or stain the rugs and floors.

2. "Many residents have moved here from the north and west" and came specifically to enjoy greenery all year long, instead of everything looking DEAD and naked from Sept. thru April. Palms are a daily reminder that we're not living in the cold, grey, frozen, dead-looking north as we did for decades since birth. The graceful, whispering palms outside are a joy to look at and they're what I "write home about" most.

[Bonny]

Not too mention that stuff all over the car for those that have a car in the driveway, all over the roof & in the eaves !!! Even if you put screening on the eaves, it still all has to be cleaned off. Too much like work.

[gomoho]

Pruning keeps rodents away!

Palm trees with slumping, dead fronds CAN attract pests such as rats, roaches, bats and snakes. Rodents may nest and breed within THICK layers of dead fronds in untrimmed palm trees and have easy access to your roof and home, especially if the fronds hang near your roofline. Sensible plant location, careful, periodic palm tree trimming and removal of fruit will help prevent unwanted pests on your property.

Critters would much prefer 'brown' vegetation to nest or hide in as it (unlike green healthy fronds) doesn't move much and provides camouflage and shade.

Thank you Uptown Girl for pointing out the truth about palm trees and rodents. I always thought what on earth would attract a rat to my palm trees - no good hiding places or fruit to eat so why would they even think twice about it.

[Halibut]

Do palms count as trees under the covenant rule against removing any with trunks 4" or more?

Palms or not, I'd like to see a change in the deed restrictions to allow more xeriscaping and even complete grass removal. I'll grant that lawns look "nicer" than rock gardens, but given the financial and environmental costs of watering, it might be worth considering. Also seems like a heck of a lot of retirees would be just as happy never to bother with yardwork again, me included.

[Shimpy]

I understand many of you are new to Fla when you move in but there is a reason you see hardwoods in the country and not palms. A humble Villager and native Floridian


When we moved to Miami in 1953 from the Pittsburgh area the first thing my father did was to plant a coconut palm along with orange, grapefruit and banana trees. We also had a fig tree and Mango tree. The Villages is much less tropical than that area and you won't see coconut or royal palms. I really enjoy seeing the oak trees and also some of the red maple which actually change color in this time of year. I don't want them in my yard though dropping all those leaves. I can understand new transplants from up north wanting palms.

[CFrance]

A question to the master gardeners among you: Is it a "sin" to plant a non native plant in an area if it is in its proper climate designation? For instance, my geraniums thrive year-round down here. Are they native? If not, should they not be planted? Same thing with palms. Why shouldn't they be planted if they are the kind that will withstand this climate?

It seems to me if all we planted were native plants, the landscape could be pretty dull. We don't have any palms, but I like seeing them about.

[Topspinmo]

If I plant tree it's going to have something I can eat from it. So I would plant citrus of some sort. I lived on 2 acres for 20 years . I had three types of pears, tree types of cherries, tree types of apples, apricots, pecans, and grapes. Plus about 40 blackjack oaks. I was always cleaning up from under the oaks and eating fruit all summer long.

[jimbo2012]

Palms or not, I'd like to see a change in the deed restrictions to allow more xeriscaping and even complete grass removal. .

I tried very hard to get xeriscaping approved, in fact had FL Univ involved to get it approved.................no way they fought very hard against it although Fl law says it over rides HOA's.

Short of a Court action it wasn't happening, we did reach a compromise of sorts.

[tuctba]

My neighbor in Belvedere paid a 10,000 lot premium because of a large live oak. Hurricane winds came through in October 2004 part of the tree fell on the house. Cost 6,000 to remove the tree. Spent a total of 16,000........OUCH!!!

[DougB]

A question to the master gardeners among you: Is it a "sin" to plant a non native plant in an area if it is in its proper climate designation? ........

Apparently so, say 7 Hail Marys and 8 Lord's Prayers and you will be forgiven.

[CFrance]

Apparently so, say 7 Hail Marys and 8 Lord's Prayers and you will be forgiven.
:pray:

[delima2000]

We have two oaks in our yard one in front and one in back. They are the nastiest trees around. Always raking and cleaning up the crap that they leave on the walkways,driveways and patio. We bought our house because there was shade and the trees looked nice but after living here for three years we are about ready to look for another house. My backyard had beautiful grass and now it is bare,my front yard is getting that way too. The oaks in Michigan were a better tree. I wish we could take the trees down and plant another type of tree but not a palm.

[Bonny]

My neighbor in Belvedere paid a 10,000 lot premium because of a large live oak. Hurricane winds came through in October 2004 part of the tree fell on the house. Cost 6,000 to remove the tree. Spent a total of 16,000........OUCH!!!
I paid $10,000 for my lot in the same area and I didn't have a live oak. Why would that raise the price of the lot ? Just wondering where you heard that was the reason for the lot price.

[Bonanza]

Regarding the two phrases highlighted in red above:

1. Obviously you haven't lived with one of these florida oaks shading your driveway, yard and/or house. Contrary to your phrase implying these florida oaks drop leaves only in the fall, their leaves and gazzilions of tiny acorns that rot quickly do not "fall in the fall". They fall for 7-8 months, from about July thru March!!

Unless you sweep and wash the driveway and sidewalk up to the front door every day, all the black/brown filth and rot from the leaves, tiny sticks and acorns get walked into the house or garage on shoe soles, and not everybody (especially seniors with physical problems) wants to go thru removing their shoes every time they walk into the house or garage. It is a constant mess to clean up to not have it tracked in and dirty or stain the rugs and floors.

2. "Many residents have moved here from the north and west" and came specifically to enjoy greenery all year long, instead of everything looking dead and naked from Sept. thru April. Palms are a daily reminder that we're not living in the cold, grey, frozen, dead-looking north as we did for decades since birth. The graceful, whispering palms outside are a joy to look at and they're what I "write home about" most.

Not too mention that stuff all over the car for those that have a car in the driveway, all over the roof & in the eaves !!! Even if you put screening on the eaves, it still all has to be cleaned off. Too much like work.

Live oaks should not be planted close to a driveway so why would you compare planting one in the same breath as planting one to shade a house??? If you plant it by your driveway, you deserve any staining you get. In all the years I have lived in Florida, I always had at least one live oak. They are magnificent trees! Your exaggerations of their leaves and acorns and of "seniors with physical problems" (where did that come from??!?) tracking dirt into their house is laughable.

It's funny, but palms do not remind anyone of what you are trying to describe when the temperature is in the 30s and 40s. By the way, you also get the exact same staining from palm seeds.

I really don't believe that people have moved to The Villages "specifically to enjoy greenery all year long," when you obviously are referring to oak trees shedding their leaves. That's a little dramatic particularly when practically all plants and shrubs are green all year long, as are many grasses.

Bonny: "Screening on the eaves"? Not sure what you mean by that. I've never seen screening on the eaves of houses.

[Bonanza]

Have no idea why someone would be worried or even care what kind of tree someone plants in their own yard.

I couldn't agree more! It's your yard plant what you like and enjoy it! Everyone else

In 20 years the little 5,000 sq.ft. lot and home will be overwhelmed by the giant beautiful oak. This will also greatly effect the neighbor. Love those trees just not in a small yard.

It does get kind of silly........................

People do need to care about what they plant and where they plant it. Unfortunately, most people here either do not care or do not understand about the particular tree they plant. Most people also want "instant results" and consequently, many trees, shrubs and plants are over planted, planted too close to a house, etc.

Yes -- we really do need to care and be considerate of what we plant and where we plant it because for the most part, our lots are the size of a postage stamp!

[Bonny]

Live oaks should not be planted close to a driveway so why would you compare planting one in the same breath as planting one to shade a house??? If you plant it by your driveway, you deserve any staining you get. In all the years I have lived in Florida, I always had at least one live oak. They are magnificent trees! Your exaggerations of their leaves and acorns and of "seniors with physical problems" (where did that come from??!?) tracking dirt into their house is laughable.

It's funny, but palms do not remind anyone of what you are trying to describe when the temperature is in the 30s and 40s. By the way, you also get the exact same staining from palm seeds.

I really don't believe that people have moved to The Villages "specifically to enjoy greenery all year long," when you obviously are referring to oak trees shedding their leaves. That's a little dramatic particularly when practically all plants and shrubs are green all year long, as are many grasses.

Bonny: "Screening on the eaves"? Not sure what you mean by that. I've never seen screening on the eaves of houses.
Duh, don't know what I was thinking. :( I meant gutters !!

[Barefoot]

A question to the master gardeners among you: Is it a "sin" to plant a non native plant in an area if it is in its proper climate designation?

If it's a sin, there's going to be a huge number of Villages residents in the penalty box with me! :evil6:

[Serenoa]

It's funny, but palms do not remind anyone of what you are trying to describe when the temperature is in the 30s and 40s.

I think it's hilarious how someone could they know what feeling I get when I look out my windows (regardless of what the outdoor temp may be) & see beautiful green palms in my yard, even way up here in Birmingham, AL.
I mean c'mon, seriously?

[downeaster]

]Do palms count as trees under the covenant rule against removing any with trunks 4" or more?[/B]

Palms or not, I'd like to see a change in the deed restrictions to allow more xeriscaping and even complete grass removal. I'll grant that lawns look "nicer" than rock gardens, but given the financial and environmental costs of watering, it might be worth considering. Also seems like a heck of a lot of retirees would be just as happy never to bother with yardwork again, me included.

Interesting question. The closest I can come up with as an answer:

Definition

Although "tree" is a term of common parlance, there is no universally recognised precise definition of what a tree is, either botanically or in common language.[1] In its broadest sense, a tree is any plant with the general form of an elongated stem, or trunk, which supports the photosynthetic leaves or branches at some distance above the ground.[2] Trees are also typically defined by height,[3] with smaller plants from 0.5 to 10 m (1.6 to 32.8 ft) being called shrubs,[4] so the minimum height of a tree is only loosely defined.[3] Large herbaceous plants such as papaya and bananas are trees in this broad sense.[1][5]
A commonly applied narrower definition is that a tree has a woody trunk formed by secondary growth, meaning that the trunk thickens each year by growing outwards, in addition to the primary upwards growth from the growing tip.[3][6] Under such a definition, herbaceous plants such as palms, bananas and papayas are not considered trees regardless of their height, growth form or stem girth. Certain monocots may be considered trees under a slightly looser definition;[7] while the Joshua tree, bamboos and palms do not have secondary growth and never produce true wood with growth rings,[8][9] they may produce "pseudo-wood" by lignifying cells formed by primary growth.[10]
Aside from structural definitions, trees are commonly defined by use, for instance as those plants which yield lumber.[11]

[Halibut]

Thanks, downeaster. We had a large palm taken out because our neighbor was complaining that the fronds brushed their roof, but it never occurred to us that the thing was a "tree" and didn't ask anyone's permission.

Also ... one day afterwards I saw our neighbor stride angrily out of the house wearing her bathrobe and come around the corner to catch the palm in action as it was making the noise that kept her and her husband up all night. She was quite startled to see that it was gone. I was quite mirthful at her expression.

Personally, I think it's squirrels on their roof.

[cattywampus]

.
Have learned that I would NEVER have another Live Oak.

Never ill until moved to The Villages.
After over $3800
paid to Docs and many Allergy tests, found am EXTREMELY
allergic to Spanish Moss growing on Live Oak Trees.

The Villages (?) would not permit REMOVAL the Live Oak
because it had over 4 inch diameter trunk.

Our street now pays to have
that NASTY Spanish Moss removed every year.
I was not the only one allergic to Spanish Moss.

BONUS....
The Live Oaks attract SQUIRRELS. To get the Acorns.
...............Squirrels climb on Lanai and birdcage screens and tear the screens....
.so far just $ 2100 to replace screens ...at just one house.

ADDED BONUS...
The squirrels sharpen their teeth on the lead flashing
protecting your vent stacks on your roof. This causes leaks in your roof.

The leaks follow your trusses to
your ceilings. Soon you discover your ceiling is discolored from the leak.
After more than $ 2000. for repairs to ceilings and more than $1200
in mold remediation in the attic.....

BONUS #3
....next door neighbors Live Oak was planted
by The Villages landscape contractor DIRECTLY ABOVE the sewer pipe.
They had a major sewerage backups in 2 bathrooms.
This due to the Live Oak roots infiltrating
their sewer pipe to the street.
The repair costs EXCEEDED $ 10 GRAND.
This repaired the pipes and replaced tile and some furniture.

Nobody will ever convince me that Live Oaks are nice to have.

I NEVER want a home with or near a Live Oak--

[yabbadu]

I understand many of you are new to Fla when you move in but there is a reason you see hardwoods in the country and not palms. Leave the oaks on your property.....you be grateful in ten years. The bio diversity of your neighborhood will thank you too.

A humble Villager and native Floridian

Don't want to rake anymore!

[dbussone]

Catty - you have hit all the appropriate reasons. We got rid of our live oaks at 3". Go palms!

[Bonanza]

We have two oaks in our yard one in front and one in back. They are the nastiest trees around. Always raking and cleaning up the crap that they leave on the walkways,driveways and patio. We bought our house because there was shade and the trees looked nice but after living here for three years we are about ready to look for another house. My backyard had beautiful grass and now it is bare,my front yard is getting that way too. The oaks in Michigan were a better tree. I wish we could take the trees down and plant another type of tree but not a palm.

Instead of complaining about the lack of grass under your oaks, take advantage of the shade they provide and plant shade-loving things underneath them.

If they are that close to your driveway, obviously, they weren't planted in the correct place. You might get an arborist to trim them properly, also, but not some unknowing lawn maintenance person who doesn't know what he's doing and hacks the tree to death.

[Bonanza]

Duh, don't know what I was thinking. :( I meant gutters !!

Ah-ha! Now I get it. I'm laughing as you probably were, too!

[Bonanza]

.
Have learned that I would NEVER have another Live Oak.
Never ill until moved to The Villages.
After over $3800 paid to Docs and many Allergy tests, found am EXTREMELY
allergic to Spanish Moss growing on Live Oak Trees.
The Villages (?) would not permit REMOVAL the Live Oak
because it had over 4 inch diameter trunk.
Our street now pays to have that NASTY Spanish Moss removed every year.
I was not the only one allergic to Spanish Moss.
BONUS
The Live Oaks attract SQUIRRELS. To get the Acorns.
Squirrels climb on Lanai and birdcage screens and tear the screens.
.so far just $ 2100 to replace screens ...at just one house.
ADDED BONUS
The squirrels sharpen their teeth on the lead flashing
protecting your vent stacks on your roof. This causes leaks in your roof.
The leaks follow your trusses to
your ceilings. Soon you discover your ceiling is discolored from the leak.
After more than $ 2000. for repairs to ceilings and more than $1200
in mold remediation in the attic
BONUS #3
next door neighbors Live Oak was planted
by The Villages landscape contractor DIRECTLY ABOVE the sewer pipe.
They had a major sewerage backups in 2 bathrooms.
This due to the Live Oak roots infiltrating
their sewer pipe to the street.
The repair costs EXCEEDED $ 10 GRAND.
This repaired the pipes and replaced tile and some furniture.
Nobody will ever convince me that Live Oaks are nice to have.

I NEVER want a home with or near a Live Oak--

Live oaks are magnificent trees but should be planted in the proper place.

I've never known anyone to be allergic to Spanish moss.
Did you all go to the same doctor for that diagnosis?

Most of my life I have lived in areas where squirrels lived.
What you are describing might happen to 1% of people.
Your description of the squirrel scenario is an exceptional rarity.

[philnpat]

Instead of complaining about the lack of grass under your oaks, take advantage of the shade they provide and plant shade-loving things underneath them.

If they are that close to your driveway, obviously, they weren't planted in the correct place. You might get an arborist to trim them properly, also, but not some unknowing lawn maintenance person who doesn't know what he's doing and hacks the tree to death.

As was mentioned before, most of us live on postage stamp size lots. If you plant an oak, it HAS to be near a driveway, roof, lanai or birdcage. Not in my yard...I think I'll pass. I'll enjoy the oaks planted elsewhere where they are not a problem.

[rubicon]

Interesting question. The closest I can come up with as an answer:

Definition

Although "tree" is a term of common parlance, there is no universally recognised precise definition of what a tree is, either botanically or in common language.[1] In its broadest sense, a tree is any plant with the general form of an elongated stem, or trunk, which supports the photosynthetic leaves or branches at some distance above the ground.[2] Trees are also typically defined by height,[3] with smaller plants from 0.5 to 10 m (1.6 to 32.8 ft) being called shrubs,[4] so the minimum height of a tree is only loosely defined.[3] Large herbaceous plants such as papaya and bananas are trees in this broad sense.[1][5]
A commonly applied narrower definition is that a tree has a woody trunk formed by secondary growth, meaning that the trunk thickens each year by growing outwards, in addition to the primary upwards growth from the growing tip.[3][6] Under such a definition, herbaceous plants such as palms, bananas and papayas are not considered trees regardless of their height, growth form or stem girth. Certain monocots may be considered trees under a slightly looser definition;[7] while the Joshua tree, bamboos and palms do not have secondary growth and never produce true wood with growth rings,[8][9] they may produce "pseudo-wood" by lignifying cells formed by primary growth.[10]
Aside from structural definitions, trees are commonly defined by use, for instance as those plants which yield lumber.[11]

I can't describe the definition of a tree but I know one when I see one.

if critters are attracted to palm trees for camouflage imagine the camouflage they garner from majestic oaks and its height advantage.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Personally, I don't understand the fascination with those ugly, dirty live oaks.
(and while we're at it, why are the called "live" oaks?)

Palm trees are beautiful and remind me that I live in a tropical climate.

Oaks are ugly with all that Spanish moss hanging down. The block too much sunlight and create a mess all of one's property. The moss falls off, the leaves come down, the roofs get mold all over them and it's near impossible to grow grass where there is an oak.

Why are these things worshipped like Gods around here? I say chop them all down.

[Gordon82]

We live on a lake, and there is a common area that surrounds the lake and separates everyone's yard from the edge of the lake. The developer planted various types of trees in this common area for each home, and we got a small (about 15 foot high) live oak. Since it is not on my property, I can't do anything about it, though I do love the look of live oaks.

How fast do these things grow? For now it is a good 25 or 30 feet from the back edge of our house.

[Bonnevie]

we don't live in a tropical climate. Miami, maybe, but not us. There are many other trees that can be planted if one doesn't want oaks. Many native trees that don't drop leaves. Rodents like the palms that have the brown fronds hanging down because they provide warmth and shelter, a tree is fairly open and wouldn't be as inviting. still, everyone has a right to have what they want.

[Polar Bear]

Personally, I don't understand the fascination with those ugly, dirty live oaks.

(and while we're at it, why are the called "live" oaks?)



Palm trees are beautiful and remind me that I live in a tropical climate.



Oaks are ugly with all that Spanish moss hanging down. The block too much sunlight and create a mess all of one's property. The moss falls off, the leaves come down, the roofs get mold all over them and it's near impossible to grow grass where there is an oak.



Why are these things worshipped like Gods around here? I say chop them all down.


To save words, just consider my post to be the exact opposite of Doc's. :)

[jimbo2012]

I recall hearing that when the master plan was approved with cutting of existing oaks and other trees a requirement was that a oak was to be planted on each lot.

[Happydaz]

The state tree of Florida is a palm tree, the ca

[sunnyatlast]

The live oaks are great in the pasture, along the roadsides like Buena Vista at Stillwater, and on the golf courses. All most of us are saying is that in a residential yard, it's a constant mess-maker, and we like palms a lot more (the right kind of Palm for this cooler climate zone north of Kissimmee.

And whose yard is it, anyway!?!?!

[Bonnevie]

the Florida state tree is a sabal palm. not sure this is what people commonly have as they are very slow growing and most people want to see results.

[Happydaz]

The state tree of Florida is a palm tree, the Cabbage Palm or Sabal palmetto. Many Palm trees can grow very well here. Although not native, the Sylvester, Pindo, and European palms are examples of Palm trees that grow well here in central Florida. Palm trees add a wonderful exotic feel to our Villages' lots. I originally had planned to plant some oak trees on my corner lot but I loved the sunsets out of my windows so I didn't want to cover the sky so I planted Sylvester palms. I kept my crapemyrtle trees and my holly trees to add some variety in the landscape. Interesting to me, when I was doing some research on live oaks, is that the trees planted on Village lots may not be the standard live oak trees you see on the golf courses. if you look around at the shopping plazas you will see smaller oak trees that I believe may be clone cultivars of oaks that either have a smaller globe growth or a narrow upright growth. Two cultivars I have read about are the "Cathedral" and "High Rise" oak trees. I would imagine that most of the trees planted by The Villages landscapers planted around new homes are these two cultivars. They will never get as big as the standard live oaks. No one has ever educated new homeowners on this, so that is why they rip them out as they don't want a monster in their yard. Today I just saw a nice group of maples with red fall color up at Laurel Manor. We probably should diversify our tree planting more, but with small lots it is understandable that people gravitate to planting palm trees.

[big guy]

In 20 years the little 5,000 sq.ft. lot and home will be overwhelmed by the giant beautiful oak. This will also greatly effect the neighbor. Love those trees just not in a small yard.

We have an oak that is no more than 5 feet from the house........this is a tree that gets to be gigantic in circumferance. Should have cut it down when it was a sapling.....no one would have noticed. Palms are more appropriate for a small space.

[Bonanza]

I can't describe the definition of a tree but I know one when I see one.

if critters are attracted to palm trees for camouflage imagine the camouflage they garner from majestic oaks and its height advantage.

Critters -- specifically cockroaches and rats -- are not attracted to palm trees for camouflage.

They are attracted to palms because they live in them.
Oak trees and most other trees, do not attact cockroaches and rats.

[Bonanza]

We have an oak that is no more than 5 feet from the house........this is a tree that gets to be gigantic in circumferance. Should have cut it down when it was a sapling.....no one would have noticed. Palms are more appropriate for a small space.

There are many trees -- dwarf and otherwise -- that would qualify for being planted close to a house.

Palm trees are not a good choice for being planted that close to a dwelling because probably, you very well could end up with rats on your roof and ultimately, in your attic.

[Bonanza]

As was mentioned before, most of us live on postage stamp size lots. If you plant an oak, it HAS to be near a driveway, roof, lanai or birdcage. Not in my yard...I think I'll pass. I'll enjoy the oaks planted elsewhere where they are not a problem.

No, an oak doesn't have to be near the areas you mention. First of all, there are many different types of oaks. A laurel oak, for instance, is more upright, as opposed to spreading.

There are many properties where there is space to plant an oak. Premiere lots are larger as are those on a cul-de-sac or golf course.

[philnpat]

No, an oak doesn't have to be near the areas you mention. First of all, there are many different types of oaks. A laurel oak, for instance, is more upright, as opposed to spreading.

There are many properties where there is space to plant an oak. Premiere lots are larger as are those on a cul-de-sac or golf course.

So we agree that most of us do not live on lots that will reasonably accept an oak tree, as most of us do not live on premier lots, cul-de-sacs or golf courses.

[jimbo2012]

Palm trees are not a good choice for being planted that close to a dwelling because probably, you very well could end up with rats on your roof and ultimately, in your attic.

That's a gross overstatement,

If it were such a problem you would see small metal rat guards that prevent rodents from climbing into the trees all round TV, you don't!

trimming dead fronds will be the preventive maintenance.

But you will notice TV doesn't trim off any of the palms and still see no rodents.

PS: citrus trees are also subject if not more so.

[Polar Bear]

While caution is necessary when planting oaks...and many other trees...it's not the extreme problem some have described. We live on a standard, interior lot. We have a live oak in the center of our front yard. It's plenty far from our house, all driveways and the street and it's has all the space it needs to mature. No negative impacts at all unless a bit of leaf raking/mowing is not your thing. And there's not even much of that compared to many other types of trees.

And oh yeah...forgot to mention...it's beautiful.

[Barefoot]

While caution is necessary when planting oaks...and many other trees...it's not the extreme problem some have described. We live on a standard, interior lot. We have a live oak in the center of our front yard. It's plenty far from our house, all driveways and the street and it's has all the space it needs to mature. No negative impacts at all unless a bit of leaf raking/mowing is not your thing. And there's not even much of that compared to many other types of trees. And oh yeah...forgot to mention...it's beautiful.
PB, could you please post a picture?

[Polar Bear]

PB, could you please post a picture?


Our oak is pretty young...not one of those ancient, sprawling oaks. I was using ours as an example just to say there is plenty of room on an average (small) lot.

I'll still post a picture if you like, Barefoot...just wanted you to know it's not one of the huge oaks, if that's what you're looking for. :)

[Barefoot]

Our oak is pretty young...not one of those ancient, sprawling oaks. I was using ours as an example just to say there is plenty of room on an average (small) lot.

I'll still post a picture if you like, Barefoot...just wanted you to know it's not one of the huge oaks, if that's what you're looking for. :)

I would like to see a picture.
And I'm also wondering whether you planted the tree or if you "inherited" it by buying a resale.

[Polar Bear]

I would like to see a picture.
And I'm also wondering whether you planted the tree or if you "inherited" it by buying a resale.

Here is a photo of my "inherited" oak tree. Not a great photo...took it today with overcast skies. But it gives the idea of spacing, etc.

By the way, birds love it. There is a hawk or falcon that visits the tree regularly. (Of course the other birds don't liked that so much...heheh.) Very cool for those that like such things. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/sdavis44/IMG_0965-1.jpg

[angiefox10]

Don't we all just plant what WE like?

[joldnol]

Here is a photo of my "inherited" oak tree. Not a great photo...took it today with overcast skies. But it gives the idea of spacing, etc.

By the way, birds love it. There is a hawk or falcon that visits the tree regularly. (Of course the other birds don't liked that so much...heheh.) Very cool for those that like such things. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/sdavis44/IMG_0965-1.jpg

nice

[Barefoot]

Here is a photo of my "inherited" oak tree. Not a great photo...took it today with overcast skies. But it gives the idea of spacing, etc.

By the way, birds love it. There is a hawk or falcon that visits the tree regularly. (Of course the other birds don't liked that so much...heheh.) Very cool for those that like such things. :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v410/sdavis44/IMG_0965-1.jpg

Nice tree. You referred to is as a young tree-- will it double in size?

[Polar Bear]

I'm far from an expert, but live oaks grow fast when they're young. The growth rate slows as they age. In a VERY long time, this tree could probably double in size.

Ideally, for my tastes, the oak could have been centered in the front yard a bit more, and the palm tree to the right not planted at all. The palm is actually too close to the oak. Unfortunately, mature size wasn't adequately considered when they were planted. Could cost the palm tree its life someday. :)

[kittygilchrist]

Anyone interested in research-based information may bring questions to the UF agricultural extension office, known as IFAS and frequently in the daily sun as Master Gardeners.
Google sumter ifas...
Otherwise, you are likely left with nothing more than a casual opinion...

[joldnol]

Anyone interested in research-based information may bring questions to the UF agricultural extension office, known as IFAS and frequently in the daily sun as Master Gardeners.
Google sumter ifas...
Otherwise, you are likely left with nothing more than a casual opinion...

good to know

[Bonanza]

My Previous Quote: Palm trees are not a good choice for being planted that close to a dwelling because probably, you very well could end up with rats on your roof and ultimately, in your attic.
*******
That's a gross overstatement,

If it were such a problem you would see small metal rat guards that prevent rodents from climbing into the trees all round TV, you don't!

trimming dead fronds will be the preventive maintenance.

But you will notice TV doesn't trim off any of the palms and still see no rodents.

PS: citrus trees are also subject if not more so.

Sorry, Jimbo, but what I said is not a gross overstatement. Most people wouldn't know they have a rat issue because you'll probably only see rats at night and almost never during the day.

In addition, TV does trim palm trees in all the common ground areas. Perhaps you are speaking of the Washingtonia palms which develop a "skirt" and the "skirt" is never trimmed.

It isn't the dead fronds that are the problem; it's the live green ones that hang over rooftops and it's the Queen palms which are the biggest culprits -- far worse than any other palm.

I'm sorry but I'm not sure what you mean: "citrus trees are also subject if not more so." Subject to what?

[Bonanza]

Personally, I don't understand the fascination with those ugly, dirty live oaks.
(and while we're at it, why are the called "live" oaks?)

Palm trees are beautiful and remind me that I live in a tropical climate.

Oaks are ugly with all that Spanish moss hanging down. The block too much sunlight and create a mess all of one's property. The moss falls off, the leaves come down, the roofs get mold all over them and it's near impossible to grow grass where there is an oak.

Why are these things worshipped like Gods around here? I say chop them all down.

Although you wouldn't agree, the live oak is a majestic tree. "Live" is simply the common name given to it as opposed to the botanical name.

Unfortunately, you do not live in an area that is anything close to anything resembling a tropical climate.

Tha Villages maintenance people should get on the stick and remove some of the moss from the huge oak trees. Doing that would permit more sunlight to penetrate through the limbs. Many things will grow under a shade tree when grass won't.

The black mildew roofs are usually not caused by the Spanish moss and/or leaves, both of which usually blow off with the breezes and winds. The primary reason for the black mildew is due to the direction the house faces. Usually you will only see one side of the house that has the problem.

Your desire to "chop them all down" is completely unrealistic.