Police shoot youth...

[RayinPenn]

The youth was a convicted fellon and was pointing a 9MM at the policeman.

I've been surfing the net and The news headlines appear to be incendiary. They would have us focus on that the cops camera wasn't on. Did they not pay attention? Felon, gun ... That's enough for me.

Did you see the ruckus that followed? Tossing bricks and bombs at the police!
Dam I say you throw a brick at me and I'd shoot to kill.

[Edjkoz]

I seriously doubt that these protesters have any idea of what they are protesting. It's just an excuse to make trouble. Where are the marchers who support the police and rule of law?

[Jimturner]

Police first. Criminals last

[DonH57]

Pointing what looks like a weapon at a police officer never ends well.

[rubicon]

of course the protesters reacted. These are the same people who upon learning to police officers celebrated and kept chanting we want dead cops when to want them we want them now.

If I were a cop the blue flu would sure be inviting. but they are oath keepers

[pivo]

The news should read--

Youth shot by policeman.

That's how the news should read period.
Do they print white policeman shoots a irishman, polish, german, chinese, russian no

[blueash]

Perhaps because you are at home with media available and not at the locale where rumors swirl you make a more measured judgment. If you were in a town right next to Ferguson and heard that another black man had been shot by another white cop (even if those racial identities turned out to be wrong) you would be very angry. You will see this particular shooting disappear from the focus of the community once the videos are more widely seen. It was clearly a self defense shooting.

However that does not mitigate the question of whether we have a problem in this country with poor policing. This officer forgot to put on his camera? It is part of his required equipment or it is optional, I don't know which but I would expect that he is required to wear it.
One can support a strong and professional and well trained police force and simultaneously call for justice when people are killed by police. Justice does not mean conviction, justice means a full unbiased investigation and when appropriate trial. And call for a system where bad cops and rogue cops and racist cops are removed from their jobs. Just as one can support the military but vigorously protest against My Lai and Abu Ghraib. Just as one can love your kids but let them know when they make a mistake.

Even Fox News opinionators were surprised that the NY Grand Jury didn't indict in Garner's death, for something. What many seem to not understand is the appearance that the lives of black men mean nothing in our judicial system. Whether they are shot, choked, stopped while walking, driving, shopping, jogging or sitting in a park, they are suspected more than respected.
With that background I understand the sensitivity to the next and the next and the next shooting, whether justified or not.

[redwitch]

Totally agree with blueash. Thank you for saying what I think and saying it so well.

[graciegirl]

Perhaps because you are at home with media available and not at the locale where rumors swirl you make a more measured judgment. If you were in a town right next to Ferguson and heard that another black man had been shot by another white cop (even if those racial identities turned out to be wrong) you would be very angry. You will see this particular shooting disappear from the focus of the community once the videos are more widely seen. It was clearly a self defense shooting.

However that does not mitigate the question of whether we have a problem in this country with poor policing. This officer forgot to put on his camera? It is part of his required equipment or it is optional, I don't know which but I would expect that he is required to wear it.
One can support a strong and professional and well trained police force and simultaneously call for justice when people are killed by police. Justice does not mean conviction, justice means a full unbiased investigation and when appropriate trial. And call for a system where bad cops and rogue cops and racist cops are removed from their jobs. Just as one can support the military but vigorously protest against My Lai and Abu Ghraib. Just as one can love your kids but let them know when they make a mistake.

Even Fox News opinionators were surprised that the NY Grand Jury didn't indict in Garner's death, for something. What many seem to not understand is the appearance that the lives of black men mean nothing in our judicial system. Whether they are shot, choked, stopped while walking, driving, shopping, jogging or sitting in a park, they are suspected more than respected.
With that background I understand the sensitivity to the next and the next and the next shooting, whether justified or not.

It is just that so many black lives are heading toward that confrontation that saddens me. WHY? Both Garner and Brown had broken the law and both resisted arrest. PLEASE don't forget that. People who are insane are shot. Remember the young woman near the White House a few years back who tried to ram her car through the White House gates? She had her children in the car and they killed her. She was mentally ill and I couldn't tell you what color she was. That is how it IS, Blueash. People need to know WHEN to STOP. Stop means stop and messing with an armed police officer could get you very dead. THE LAW HAS to be respected. I don't think Garner or Brown had anything to do with RACE.


Blueash. Do you have any thoughts as to why so many young black men are suspected rather than respected?

[blueash]

of course the protesters reacted. These are the same people who upon learning to police officers celebrated and kept chanting we want dead cops when to want them we want them now.

If I were a cop the blue flu would sure be inviting. but they are oath keepers

What do you mean by "these are the same people"? Where were there celebrations of the deaths of the NYC cops or the one here in Florida? I am not aware of any celebrations rather universal condemnation seemed to have been the response. You have posted that people who protested in Berkeley are the same people who chanted "we want dead cops" (no such protest chart ever was reported from Berkeley) and are the same people who celebrated the shooting of the cops, no such celebration was reported anywhere in the country that I saw reported. So now, please explain your statement because what it seem to suggest is that all black people are the same and they are all responsible for any actions of any other black person, even actions that never happened.

And the oath keepers is an organization that tells cops and military to DISOBEY orders when the individual feels the order is against that person's personal interpretation of the constitution. It is a far right group with politics that closely align with the militia movement. What makes you believe that most cops are members of such an organization? Or perhaps you didn't mean that organization and it was just a coincidental use of the same to (sic) words

[Bogie Shooter]

Perhaps because you are at home with media available and not at the locale where rumors swirl you make a more measured judgment. If you were in a town right next to Ferguson and heard that another black man had been shot by another white cop (even if those racial identities turned out to be wrong) you would be very angry. You will see this particular shooting disappear from the focus of the community once the videos are more widely seen. It was clearly a self defense shooting.

However that does not mitigate the question of whether we have a problem in this country with poor policing. This officer forgot to put on his camera? It is part of his required equipment or it is optional, I don't know which but I would expect that he is required to wear it.
One can support a strong and professional and well trained police force and simultaneously call for justice when people are killed by police. Justice does not mean conviction, justice means a full unbiased investigation and when appropriate trial. And call for a system where bad cops and rogue cops and racist cops are removed from their jobs. Just as one can support the military but vigorously protest against My Lai and Abu Ghraib. Just as one can love your kids but let them know when they make a mistake.

Even Fox News opinionators were surprised that the NY Grand Jury didn't indict in Garner's death, for something. What many seem to not understand is the appearance that the lives of black men mean nothing in our judicial system. Whether they are shot, choked, stopped while walking, driving, shopping, jogging or sitting in a park, they are suspected more than respected.
With that background I understand the sensitivity to the next and the next and the next shooting, whether justified or not.

Well stated................

[dbussone]

There were numerous reports of protesters cheering the NYPD officer murders, including on social media.

[graciegirl]

Blueash.

On your statement about black people being suspected rather than respected.

Making summary judgments according to statistics about groups of people happens all of the time.

Do you know why young drivers have higher insurance rates?

Sometimes the truth is VERY SAD.

[blueash]

It is just that so many black lives are heading toward that confrontation that saddens me. WHY? Both Garner and Brown had broken the law and both resisted arrest. PLEASE don't forget that. People who are insane are shot. Remember the young woman near the White House a few years back who tried to ram her car through the White House gates? She had her children in the car and they killed her. She was mentally ill and I couldn't tell you what color she was. That is how it IS, Blueash. People need to know WHEN to STOP. Stop means stop and messing with an armed police officer could get you very dead. THE LAW HAS to be respected. I don't think Garner or Brown had anything to do with RACE.

Gracie, I think you are sweet and naïve. Garner and Brown had a lot to do with race. Garner is an especially egregious example as most everyone agrees.

Bill OReilly:
" Mr. Garner clearly a low level offender was not a threat. American police are held to a very high standard because they have power. They have guns. They must control inflammatory situations not make them worse. "
Krauthammer:
the grand jury's decision here is totally incomprehensible. It looks as if at least they might have indicted him on something like involuntary manslaughter at the very least.

If the people on Fox see that the Garner case was an injustice then it certainly was an injustice.

This case might help you to understand how a black person might have fear of the cops. A well publicized case where a not perfect black person dies at the hands of a group of New York's finest for selling illegal cigarettes and there are not consequences. It looks like open season on black men

Gracie, how comfortable would you be walking around in Over the Rhine at 2 AM? Do you personally know anyone who has actually been harmed in OTR? Do you believe as a white woman that either your race or your gender might make you a target in that part of town? You have heard stories of people like you who did get hurt, robbed etc. So maybe you would be very leery of all the thousands of perfectly nice people who live in OTR because of the very few who might do you harm. I gather from your previous posts that you have had many very positive interactions with black people through the years. But now, you are distressed because there were some lack of smiles on your recent trip.

If you were a black man you can be absolutely certain that you would have had many negative interactions with police, storeowners, the stares of white people .. crossing to the other side of the street, following you in stores, stopping you for driving while black. You would be leery of cops even though you understood that they have a difficult job, you would still have more than a little discomfort when you saw one in your rear view mirror or one approached you on the street. Just like you are discomforted by the approach of a perfectly innocent black teen at 2 AM in OTR.
Our society is still very permeated by racism (sorry to all those who would deny it and don't want it pointed out). You noticed that black people didn't smile at you. You are racially aware as are we all, cops included.

The challenges faced by a black person are different and greater than those lucky enough to have been born white. I am given the benefit of the doubt when shopping, driving, interacting. Too often a black person is not. It is their reality not just a perception. I have no solution, I have no suggestion. I just try to understand why the black community can see institutional racism when so many white people cannot. Maybe it is the same for Jews being more sensitive to anti-Semitic comments and politics. Maybe it is the same for Muslims who get the permit for building a mosque turned down or find they are stared at in airports. Maybe it is the same when a black man standing at the valet desk outside a trendy restaurant awaiting his car is asked by the white man in line to go get that man's car assume that any black man at the stand must be a car parker. Sad to say racial consciousness pervades every interaction for all of us and the brunt of that truth is to detriment of black people.

[blueash]

There were numerous reports of protesters cheering the NYPD officer murders, including on social media.

Other than some tweets, please find me a "numerous report" of protesters cheering the deaths of cops? I cannot find any such reports Perhaps you have sources I have not identified? Tweets do not fit my idea of what constitutes a celebration. The term suggests people happily cheering in the streets. Find me that story. It may exist, I can't find it.

[blueash]

The youth was a convicted fellon.

And one last post in my attempt to have truthful discussions. I can find no evidence that this person was a convicted felon. I found websites listing misdemeanor convictions but not felonies. But of course if you were to write the youth was convicted of misdemeanors it wouldn't paint as negative a picture. Frankly, IMO, if he had never had a single interaction with law enforcement but he pointed a gun at a cop, the shooting was justified; but, I wish posts would reflect facts in the real world not exaggerated ones.

[pivo]

Blueash--Maybe you are looking only for the positives, be real

After 40 yrs of getting the best treatment of any nationality, including free education, free placement in employements, frre financing to get stsrted in business, plus machinery,etc.
what have you to say after 40 yrs of special treatment, I have friends who were held back in promotions because of them being whitr.
I suggewst you open your ryes and be fair and honest.

[gerryann]

BLUEASH.........Do a bit more research before discounting others posts.

I saw and heard on numerous news reports, videos of the chanting to kill police.

The deceased was a convicted felon.

Gracie is deffinetly not naive.

[graciegirl]

Gracie, I think you are sweet and naïve. Garner and Brown had a lot to do with race. Garner is an especially egregious example as most everyone agrees.

Bill OReilly:
" Mr. Garner clearly a low level offender was not a threat. American police are held to a very high standard because they have power. They have guns. They must control inflammatory situations not make them worse. "
Krauthammer:
the grand jury's decision here is totally incomprehensible. It looks as if at least they might have indicted him on something like involuntary manslaughter at the very least.

If the people on Fox see that the Garner case was an injustice then it certainly was an injustice.

This case might help you to understand how a black person might have fear of the cops. A well publicized case where a not perfect black person dies at the hands of a group of New York's finest for selling illegal cigarettes and there are not consequences. It looks like open season on black men

Gracie, how comfortable would you be walking around in Over the Rhine at 2 AM? Do you personally know anyone who has actually been harmed in OTR? Do you believe as a white woman that either your race or your gender might make you a target in that part of town? You have heard stories of people like you who did get hurt, robbed etc. So maybe you would be very leery of all the thousands of perfectly nice people who live in OTR because of the very few who might do you harm. I gather from your previous posts that you have had many very positive interactions with black people through the years. But now, you are distressed because there were some lack of smiles on your recent trip.

If you were a black man you can be absolutely certain that you would have had many negative interactions with police, storeowners, the stares of white people .. crossing to the other side of the street, following you in stores, stopping you for driving while black. You would be leery of cops even though you understood that they have a difficult job, you would still have more than a little discomfort when you saw one in your rear view mirror or one approached you on the street. Just like you are discomforted by the approach of a perfectly innocent black teen at 2 AM in OTR.
Our society is still very permeated by racism (sorry to all those who would deny it and don't want it pointed out). You noticed that black people didn't smile at you. You are racially aware as are we all, cops included.

The challenges faced by a black person are different and greater than those lucky enough to have been born white. I am given the benefit of the doubt when shopping, driving, interacting. Too often a black person is not. It is their reality not just a perception. I have no solution, I have no suggestion. I just try to understand why the black community can see institutional racism when so many white people cannot. Maybe it is the same for Jews being more sensitive to anti-Semitic comments and politics. Maybe it is the same for Muslims who get the permit for building a mosque turned down or find they are stared at in airports. Maybe it is the same when a black man standing at the valet desk outside a trendy restaurant awaiting his car is asked by the white man in line to go get that man's car assume that any black man at the stand must be a car parker. Sad to say racial consciousness pervades every interaction for all of us and the brunt of that truth is to detriment of black people.

Paul. I am not swayed by people's opinions on Fox News. I don't go to high crime districts because there is high crime.

I know that Jack Kennedy didn't shelter us Catholics and back then we got our share of negative jabs.

I know a lot of things. I think it was damned stupid for black parents to not tell their kids the same thing that other parents tell their kids. i.e.If a police officer stops you, be polite, do what he says, follow directions, etc. etc.

The world is what it is. And by the way Paul. I usually smile at everyone and everyone usually smiles back.

[jimmemac]

If you are stupid enough to point a gun or something that looks like a gun at a cop-you should expect to maybe get shot. I don't support people who break the law on purpose;I will and do support police that are doing their job. I only wish they could stop doing their jobs for a week and see how the protesters like that. We are becoming a society where we are afraid to make people feel bad, where we excuse bad behavior and we give way to much to people who have done nothing to earn it. Telling officers to stand down when people are breaking the law is idiotic.

[gerryann]

From USA news

Antonio Martin, who had an extensive criminal background which included “multiple uses of weapons since he was 17,” was killed at a gas station last night after an incident that was captured on surveillance camera.

St Louis police say an armed black teenager shot dead by police in Berkeley, Missouri, was known to law enforcement. The 18-year-old victim, named locally as Antonio Martin, had been arrested for assault, armed robbery and unlawful use of a weapon

[dbussone]

Other than some tweets, please find me a "numerous report" of protesters cheering the deaths of cops? I cannot find any such reports Perhaps you have sources I have not identified? Tweets do not fit my idea of what constitutes a celebration. The term suggests people happily cheering in the streets. Find me that story. It may exist, I can't find it.


Www.mediaite.com carried:
Concha: ‘They Deserved It’: The Repulsive Reaction to Brooklyn Police Executions
by Joe Concha | 1:15 am, December 21st, 2014
1824


You might also check out The Daily Beast, and Fox.

[redwitch]

Being arrested for a crime doesn't mean being convicted. In this instance, it is totally irrelevant what kind of record the deceased had. He pointed a gun at a police officer. The officer was doing his duty. The shooting was and is totally defensible.

Most black parents I know go well beyond telling their sons to be polite when stopped. The parents fully understand to be less than polite can be their son's death warrant. However, try telling a 19 YO to sit still when being stopped for the nth time for doing nothing wrong, just having the wrong skin color. Tell a 25 YO who has committed a minor crime that it is okay for him to be beaten and humiliated when being arrested.

Talk to two young men with the exact same backgrounds (whether from a ghetto or an upper class neighborhood), one white and one of color. Odds are the young man of color would have been stopped three times as often as the white man. Not only that, he would have been humiliated more often, brought in for questioning more often, demeaned more often.

Whether we like it or not, young men of color are angry. They've been shown over and over their lives have little value in this society. They are not treated fairly. Police officers need to treat all suspects evenly. If they won't stop a white youth walking down the street, then they shouldn't stop a black youth. If a white kid driving a BMW is okay, then it should be okay for a black kid.

Don't get me wrong, that doesn't excuse disrespecting an officer when stopped, whether physically or verbally. However, I certainly understand their frustration and anger. Things need to change on both sides. Until they do, things are just going to escalate on both sides. Police officers are afraid right now, rightfully so. So are young black men and, again, rightfully so.

I'm scared right now. The race riots of the 70's were ugly and frightening. If they occur now, they'll be a lot uglier and far more frightening. Someone made the comment to a friend of mine that it is no longer a conversation, it is now a war. I sincerely hope this comment is wrong but my gut says it is spot on.

[gecun55]

all the perps have to do is stop breaking societies laws

[gerryann]

all the perps have to do is stop breaking societies laws

Amen

[RayinPenn]

And one last post in my attempt to have truthful discussions. I can find no evidence that this person was a convicted felon. I found websites listing misdemeanor convictions but not felonies. But of course if you were to write the youth was convicted of misdemeanors it wouldn't paint as negative a picture. Frankly, IMO, if he had never had a single interaction with law enforcement but he pointed a gun at a cop, the shooting was justified; but, I wish posts would reflect facts in the real world not exaggerated ones.

1) You didn't look too hard as I googled his name with plus sign and 'criminal record'
2) your responses ignore some very pertinent points ...they were resisting arrest.
3) in one instance the supervising officer was a black gal.

I have several friends who immigrated from Africa - one in particular got an MBA then a law degree... He doesn't have too much trouble with the police he doesn't have time. He doesn't see oppression in our country he sees opportunity.

Another colleague (big black guy) has an engineering degree told me the secret of his success. "My 110lb mother would kick my butt if I stepped out of line."

I for one am sick to death of those who say It's not my fault. I have no sympathy for anyone who throws bricks at another human being. I have little truck with the police because I don't steal, rob, assault or carry an illegal fire arm.

[justjim]

Two NY policeman were killed in cold blood by a Black man and the protesters don't have the decency to not protest until after their funerals---as they say action speaks louder than words. The Mayor (who has supported the protesters) pleaded with them to suspend but sadly the marches continue.

[gerryann]

I am sick and tired - just plain FED UP - with listening to everyone of their excuses about their little punk, thug felons who are just little Angels.



I so agree. Being a LEO is hard enough without having to second guess every desision you make. Officers do not care what color anyone is when there is a gun pointed at them. Officers are taught that if your weapon is used, use it to kill, or don't use it at all.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Perhaps because you are at home with media available and not at the locale where rumors swirl you make a more measured judgment. If you were in a town right next to Ferguson and heard that another black man had been shot by another white cop (even if those racial identities turned out to be wrong) you would be very angry. You will see this particular shooting disappear from the focus of the community once the videos are more widely seen. It was clearly a self defense shooting.

However that does not mitigate the question of whether we have a problem in this country with poor policing. This officer forgot to put on his camera? It is part of his required equipment or it is optional, I don't know which but I would expect that he is required to wear it.
One can support a strong and professional and well trained police force and simultaneously call for justice when people are killed by police. Justice does not mean conviction, justice means a full unbiased investigation and when appropriate trial. And call for a system where bad cops and rogue cops and racist cops are removed from their jobs. Just as one can support the military but vigorously protest against My Lai and Abu Ghraib. Just as one can love your kids but let them know when they make a mistake.

Even Fox News opinionators were surprised that the NY Grand Jury didn't indict in Garner's death, for something. What many seem to not understand is the appearance that the lives of black men mean nothing in our judicial system. Whether they are shot, choked, stopped while walking, driving, shopping, jogging or sitting in a park, they are suspected more than respected.
With that background I understand the sensitivity to the next and the next and the next shooting, whether justified or not.

Where do I start?
1. How about the statement of poor policing? Why isn't there discussion about the poor parenting skills of the single parent (not ""parents in MANY cases) of these sweet little angels that ARE NEVER DOING ANYTHING WRONG.
2. The Body Camera? They had just been issued and the Officer had been in a meeting and missed when they were issued and the initial training on them. It was given to him on his way out to his shift and he wasn't trained in the use of it yet.
3. Fox News? Nothing else needs said about that Liberal media outlet.
4. Black men in the judicial system and why are they suspected more? Do you ever watch the news from major cities and, if so, what race is shown in incidents more than not?

I have many friends that are Black and they are great people. What separates them from the black males being shot by the police for their wrongdoing, the black males that are inciting the violent riots, i.e., Michael Browns stepfather, the black males that are looting, trashing and burning buildings, the black males THAT ARE SHOOTING EACH OTHER WITH NO REGARD? My black friends were raised right and have the correct core values with regards to living right and in turn, receiving respect. We talk a lot about what is going on in today's world and NONE OF THEM ever remembers being hassled by the Police.

#bluelivesmatter
#policelivesmatter

[TheVillageChicken]

It is just that so many black lives are heading toward that confrontation that saddens me. WHY? Both Garner and Brown had broken the law and both resisted arrest. PLEASE don't forget that. People who are insane are shot. Remember the young woman near the White House a few years back who tried to ram her car through the White House gates? She had her children in the car and they killed her. She was mentally ill and I couldn't tell you what color she was. That is how it IS, Blueash. People need to know WHEN to STOP. Stop means stop and messing with an armed police officer could get you very dead. THE LAW HAS to be respected. I don't think Garner or Brown had anything to do with RACE.


Blueash. Do you have any thoughts as to why so many young black men are suspected rather than respected?

I have an opinion on that. Although the term carries a negative connotation, stereotypes have basis in fact and with a few absurd exceptions, tend to be true.

[Rags123]

First a little about a group called A.N.S.W.E.R which is short for Act Now to Stop War and End Racism. This group was formed shortly after 9/11/2001 and is a communist group. They demonstrated any war A.N.S.W.E.R. em it enthusiastically supported both Kim il Jung and Saddam Hussein, and is led in part by the Muslim Student Association. It has total solidarity with and is outspoken in its support of the Palenstinian cause

ANSWER, which at its core included a partnership between Arab and non-Arab activists, fought a long and successful battle against excluding the Palestinian,
In August of this year they lead a march protesting Israel. Their current website has a headline front page lauding the US announcement concerning Cuba and Stop the WAR on Black America.

ANSWER Coalition Home (http://www.answercoalition.org/)

This is from Wikipedia......".... its steering committee consists of socialists, civil rights advocates, and left-wing or progressive organizations from the Muslim, Arab, Palestinian, Filipino, Haitian, and Latin American communities. Many of ANSWER's lead organizers had ties to the International Action Center, and Workers World Party at the time of ANSWER's founding

A.N.S.W.E.R. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.N.S.W.E.R).

If you read it, this is a pretty mean spritied and communist group.

THIS GROUP has been working with Sharpton on these demonstrations thus those taking part are being conned in my opinion. This from them concerning not heeding the mayors request to cease demonstrations until the two policeman are buried.

"Another group, The Answer Coalition, said it would go ahead with a long-planned march Tuesday evening, and denounced the mayor for what it called an "outrageous" attempt to chill free speech. The New York Post reported that a few dozen protesters staged a "die-in" at Grand Central Terminal before marching toward Times Square. "

NYC protesters say they won't stop demonstrations despite de Blasio's wishes | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/12/23/nyc-protesters-say-wont-stop-demonstrations-despite-de-blasio-wishes/)

This quote from REDWITCH got my attention...."I'm scared right now. The race riots of the 70's were ugly and frightening. If they occur now, they'll be a lot uglier and far more frightening. Someone made the comment to a friend of mine that it is no longer a conversation, it is now a war. I sincerely hope this comment is wrong but my gut says it is spot on.

I agree with her. There is a sound reason to be totally petrified by what is happening in this country. There is manipulation of major proportions going on right now,and instead of applauding good news economically, we are allowing our country to be torn apart socially.

I agree with Rich Lowry today in the NYPOST...who said...

"We have heard a lot lately about tensions between the police and the communities that they serve, and the urgent need to reduce them. Here’s an easy first step: Stop lying about the cops.
The “national conversation” about race and policing we’ve been having ever since Michael Brown was shot by Officer Darren Wilson in Ferguson, Mo., last summer has been based on lies.
The lie that Officer Wilson shot Brown while he had his hands up and was pleading “Don’t shoot.”
The lie that New York City policemen targeted Eric Garner for a violent arrest because he was black.
The lie, peddled especially by the progressive prince of New York City, Mayor de Blasio, that the police are racist.
These are the lies that fuel hatred for the police, because if the police routinely execute black men in cold blood and serve a thoroughly racist system, they deserve to be hated."

Stop lying about the cops | New York Post (http://nypost.com/2014/12/24/lying-about-the-cops/)

Or from Mike Lupica from the Daily NEWS

"Only it is too late to save two cops in a patrol car who never had a chance. At a time when there has been the general notion that cops in New York City are under attack, these two cops were the ones attacked in Brooklyn, but will inspire no movements or crusades, from Al Sharpton or anybody else. They will not rouse those such as the actor Samuel L. Jackson to sing about them, the way he sang not long ago about “racist police.”

Lupica: NYPD killings come as some think cops are threat - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/lupica-nypd-killings-cops-threat-article-1.2052151)

In the same article, Lupica says....

"You know how it has gone here for weeks. You know there has been this cockeyed notion that because one cop didn’t get indicted in Staten Island that somehow all cops should be indicted in New York. Who takes to the streets now for two cops who don’t make it to Christmas?"
'

Warning...be careful. This total, unthinking support of these supporters is based on lies and a dogma that we just do not need in this country.

If there is institutional racism in any part of our government, lets address it. I did some research on stops of blacks and whites by police, etc and frankly those of hispanic ethnicity are stopped more than either black or white. I also looked into some wrtings on WHY. Seems police are mostly in black areas because that is where the crime is, thus they stop more blacks than whites.

To me, this is an ECONOMIC issue being disguised as a race issue. And it is based on two people who broke the law and insisted they were not going to abide by a police instruction, which I think they would know better than anyone is not a good thing.

Life is not fair, but in this country we have ways to address these issues and we do not need the help of a communist group lathering up the troops. We do not need professional agitators like Sharpton.

We have come so far and we are know in the depths of racism and this is not going away anytime soon.

Lets just look at facts....lets look at the players....

[blueash]

From USA news

Antonio Martin, who had an extensive criminal background which included “multiple uses of weapons since he was 17,” was killed at a gas station last night after an incident that was captured on surveillance camera.

St Louis police say an armed black teenager shot dead by police in Berkeley, Missouri, was known to law enforcement. The 18-year-old victim, named locally as Antonio Martin, had been arrested for assault, armed robbery and unlawful use of a weapon

I read that, where does it say he was a convicted felon? It says he had arrests not convictions. I was not aware that we have now gone to the presumption of guilt and conviction based on arrests reports. Again, I am not arguing that Mr Martin's death was an unjustified shooting. I am asking that accurate reporting of information ought to be the goal of any discussion. He was not according to what I read, and what you posted a convicted felon as the OP wrote. If you have some evidence of his being convicted of a felony I would welcome that information. It would seem very unlikely that an 18 year old with a felony conviction would not be incarcerated.

[blueash]

Blueash--Maybe you are looking only for the positives, be real

After 40 yrs of getting the best treatment of any nationality, including free education, free placement in employements, frre financing to get stsrted in business, plus machinery,etc.
what have you to say after 40 yrs of special treatment, I have friends who were held back in promotions because of them being whitr.
I suggewst you open your ryes and be fair and honest.

And what nationality are black people? When you see a black person in law or medicine or on the police or firefighter, do you think they got there because of racial preference and are likely not as good as the white people doing the same job? It is sad how white people have been oppressed for the last 40 years and no longer can get good jobs or into a good school because all those black people are getting in when there are more qualified white people who don't. That explains all the black kids in medical schools and all the black CEOs. That explains why only white people have overwhelming student loans as all black people got a free ride.
Sometimes when a black person gets a promotion over a white person, the black person has more to offer the company and earned the promotion.

[blueash]

Mediaite.com | News & Opinion | Media: TV, Print, Online, Jobs, Ranking (http://Www.mediaite.com) carried:
Concha: ‘They Deserved It’: The Repulsive Reaction to Brooklyn Police Executions
by Joe Concha | 1:15 am, December 21st, 2014
1824

You might also check out The Daily Beast, and Fox.

On the link you provided there is a story of a single individual who refused to give his full name reporting what he claimed to have heard said. There is not a report of any celebration. I cannot find anything on Fox nor Beast to fit the narrative being presented that the black community in Berkeley nor anywhere else supported the killing of the cops.

"One 30-year-old local who gave his first name only as Carlos, didn’t hear the gunfire but saw the hysteria and walked to the police tape.

And he couldn’t believe his eyes or ears. He didn’t see shock or sorrow but glee and jubilation.

“A lot of people were clapping and laughing,” he said.

Carlos said fired-up locals were staring at two cops killed in cold blood and saying they got what they deserved.

“Some were saying, ‘They deserved it,’ and another was shouting at the cops, ‘Serves them right because you mistreat people!’” he said.

[dbussone]

On the link you provided there is a story of a single individual who refused to give his full name reporting what he claimed to have heard said. There is not a report of any celebration. I cannot find anything on Fox nor Beast to fit the narrative being presented that the black community in Berkeley nor anywhere else supported the killing of the cops.


What is glee and jubilation then? As for Fox and The Beast, I found them

[Rags123]

On the link you provided there is a story of a single individual who refused to give his full name reporting what he claimed to have heard said. There is not a report of any celebration. I cannot find anything on Fox nor Beast to fit the narrative being presented that the black community in Berkeley nor anywhere else supported the killing of the cops.

Knowing you will surely misinterpet what I say here, as it is not meant as any defense for anything, but MOST of the calls of police racism are based on just about the same thing as you brush aside here.

[blueash]

all the perps have to do is stop breaking societies laws

Why is it that when the use of pot is higher by white teens than by black teens, the arrests for pot are so much higher for black kids?

The Scandal of Racist Marijuana Arrests (http://www.thenation.com/article/176915/scandal-racist-marijuana-arrests-and-what-do-about-it#)

marijuana-arrests.com (http://marijuana-arrests.com/)

So there is something more than whether or not a person breaks the law that is factoring into who gets arrested. And it is apparently color of the law breaker's skin. Being white relatively protects you from being arrested for a crime which a black person doing the same thing is not protected.

[Rags123]

Why is it that when the use of pot is higher by white teens than by black teens, the arrests for pot are so much higher for black kids?

The Scandal of Racist Marijuana Arrests (http://www.thenation.com/article/176915/scandal-racist-marijuana-arrests-and-what-do-about-it#)

marijuana-arrests.com (http://marijuana-arrests.com/)

So there is something more than whether or not a person breaks the law that is factoring into who gets arrested. And it is apparently color of the law breaker's skin. Being white relatively protects you from being arrested for a crime which a black person doing the same thing is not protected.

Folks do tend to extrapolate the statistics as you have, but there are other ways to look at it.

Did you or anyone ever think that the police presence is where the crime is....the crime is predominately in black areas...thus more arrests ????

I know that sounds racist to you, but just think about it. The whites are smoking but there are not many police where they are, but in a black area you wll find a larger police presence

PS....Sorry, I asked if you or anyone had ever thought of what I said....of course they have but you wont read it anywhere....not the in thing to say or do

[Moderator]

The topic is the recent police shooting incident in Berkeley, MO. Please stay on topic and avoid engaging in personal disputes.

[TheVillageChicken]

Why is it that when the use of pot is higher by white teens than by black teens, the arrests for pot are so much higher for black kids?

The Scandal of Racist Marijuana Arrests (http://www.thenation.com/article/176915/scandal-racist-marijuana-arrests-and-what-do-about-it#)

marijuana-arrests.com (http://marijuana-arrests.com/)

So there is something more than whether or not a person breaks the law that is factoring into who gets arrested. And it is apparently color of the law breaker's skin. Being white relatively protects you from being arrested for a crime which a black person doing the same thing is not protected.

Because pot arrests are typically incidental to being detained for another offense.

[billethkid]

I personally and many others are more than sick and tired and disgusted by the media and the population that continues to make a black and white issue always to be racist....when it is not!

Youth? A classification meant to generate heat or sympathy. How young = youth? Is man any less descriptive? Or young man? Each less emotion generating!
Black? A fact of matter!
Points gun at police. Another fact of matter.

Far too many use media information as a basis for launching a racial tirade.

Young man shot and killed while aiming a gun at a policeman. Not a very newsorthy or racial heat generating statement. However much more accurate and appropriate.

[VT2TV]

1) You didn't look too hard as I googled his name with plus sign and 'criminal record'
2) your responses ignore some very pertinent points ...they were resisting arrest.
3) in one instance the supervising officer was a black gal.

I have several friends who immigrated from Africa - one in particular got an MBA then a law degree... He doesn't have too much trouble with the police he doesn't have time. He doesn't see oppression in our country he sees opportunity.

Another colleague (big black guy) has an engineering degree told me the secret of his success. "My 110lb mother would kick my butt if I stepped out of line."

I for one am sick to death of those who say It's not my fault. I have no sympathy for anyone who throws bricks at another human being. I have little truck with the police because I don't steal, rob, assault or carry an illegal fire arm.



Very much agree. I have read with interest what a lot of the black editorials have said about all of this, and I have yet to see 1 who does not side with the police. I personally have no problem with black people, I was never taught racism-my parents grew up in the 20's, 30's, 40's living with black people in their area, and everyone got along fine. And I have had some black friends that I would just as easily given one of my organs to if they needed a transplant as I would a white friend. But the black people have got to take a large ownership on how they are treated. Any one under the age of 50 has had numerous opportunities just given to them-through affirmitive action, bussing, colleges giving full scholarships to thousands of minorities, habitat building mostly minorities houses, and so many other opportunities that I just don't want to write down now. I am NOT saying that there aren't some white people who are not prejudiced, but I guarantee that there are as many, if not more black people who are just as , or more prejudiced than any white people. Obviously, the president was not elected by just the black vote, there were a lot of white people who voted for him also. But it is very telling that like 99 or 100% of black people who voted for Obama. You cannot tell me that every black person who voted for him, voted on policies and issues. There are numerous black millionaires, we have a black president, black congress people, so the opportunities are there. But if you sit around all day, in a house provided for you, with utilities provided for you, with food and healthcare provided for you and all sorts of programs to help you get ahead that are ignored--you have to take some of the responsibility for your life. Someone mentioned feeling afraid if you were out walking in different neighborhoods, and met a black 17y old versus a white 17 y old-well actually, I would feel afraid if I met either one of them. A 17 y old should be at home at 2 am, and those who aren't probably aren't there doing good deeds. If the person in Ferguson. and the person in NY had just listened to the police and not fought with them, they would be still alive today. Both of them were involved in criminal activity. This new person was a 17 y old who had a gun he pointed at the police. The gun was unregistered, and actually had the serial number scratched off. But instead of listening to the police and accepting the rulings of the courts, the mostly black crowds instead chose to act like animals, destroying property that did not belong to them, causing millions and millions of dollars in damage. They have thrown thing at cops, hurting a couple, they tied up traffic, and on and on. If you want to be treated with respect, you have to show respect, no matter what color you are. And during all of this, there have beed white people killed "in honor" of the criminals who could have avoided all of this if they had just stood still and not fought with the police. It is time for the "poor. pitiful, me" attitude stops. When you come right down to it, white people have done more to help the black person than anyone else.

[Miles42]

If you point a firearm at a police officer expect bullets to come your way. What's to protest? A criminal with a firearm got just what he deserved.

[Rags123]

Because pot arrests are typically incidental to being detained for another offense.

To emphasize this point....this is from todays news.....

"New details have emerged about one of the threats that was made against New York police officers in the wake of the fatal shooting that left two cops dead in New York last weekend.

Elvin Payamps, 38, was arrested Wednesday after someone overheard him making threats on a cell phone, saying that he wanted to kill an officer before Christmas, authorities said.

The witness heard Payamps make those statements at 1:38 p.m. Cops tracked down Payamps about an hour later, authorities said. The witness told police that he heard Payamps say, "The cop should have been white that was killed. I always have a gun on me."

Most important....

"The police officer who found Payamps an hour after the threat noticed him in a blue BMW in Queens with windows that were tinted much darker than the legal limit allows, authorities said.

Upon questioning, the officer determined that Payamps had marijuana in his car, police said, and a later search of his home found a set of brass knuckles, two guns and two body vests."

Man Who Threatened to Kill Police Officers Says Dead Cops Should Have Been White - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/man-threatened-kill-police-officers-dead-cops-white/story?id=27839210)
"

PS: Don't you wonder where this guy worked ? A blue BMW, with dark tint TWO guns, TWO body vests !

[Shimpy]

Very much agree. I have read with interest what a lot of the black editorials have said about all of this, and I have yet to see 1 who does not side with the police. I personally have no problem with black people, I was never taught racism-my parents grew up in the 20's, 30's, 40's living with black people in their area, and everyone got along fine. And I have had some black friends that I would just as easily given one of my organs to if they needed a transplant as I would a white friend. But the black people have got to take a large ownership on how they are treated. Any one under the age of 50 has had numerous opportunities just given to them-through affirmitive action, bussing, colleges giving full scholarships to thousands of minorities, habitat building mostly minorities houses, and so many other opportunities that I just don't want to write down now. I am NOT saying that there aren't some white people who are not prejudiced, but I guarantee that there are as many, if not more black people who are just as , or more prejudiced than any white people. Obviously, the president was not elected by just the black vote, there were a lot of white people who voted for him also. But it is very telling that like 99 or 100% of black people who voted for Obama. You cannot tell me that every black person who voted for him, voted on policies and issues. There are numerous black millionaires, we have a black president, black congress people, so the opportunities are there. But if you sit around all day, in a house provided for you, with utilities provided for you, with food and healthcare provided for you and all sorts of programs to help you get ahead that are ignored--you have to take some of the responsibility for your life. Someone mentioned feeling afraid if you were out walking in different neighborhoods, and met a black 17y old versus a white 17 y old-well actually, I would feel afraid if I met either one of them. A 17 y old should be at home at 2 am, and those who aren't probably aren't there doing good deeds. If the person in Ferguson. and the person in NY had just listened to the police and not fought with them, they would be still alive today. Both of them were involved in criminal activity. This new person was a 17 y old who had a gun he pointed at the police. The gun was unregistered, and actually had the serial number scratched off. But instead of listening to the police and accepting the rulings of the courts, the mostly black crowds instead chose to act like animals, destroying property that did not belong to them, causing millions and millions of dollars in damage. They have thrown thing at cops, hurting a couple, they tied up traffic, and on and on. If you want to be treated with respect, you have to show respect, no matter what color you are. And during all of this, there have beed white people killed "in honor" of the criminals who could have avoided all of this if they had just stood still and not fought with the police. It is time for the "poor. pitiful, me" attitude stops. When you come right down to it, white people have done more to help the black person than anyone else.

:agree:

[PennBF]

I have a sister who when called to Jury Duty would tell the Judge that she is willing to serve BUT it is her belief that if someone gets as far as a criminal charge and court then they must be guilty of something and she would vote that way. I kind of feel this way with the current uproar about the Police protecting themselves. If someone gets as far that a policeman must pull his weapon then the person must be guilty of something and therefore the cop is right. Cops do not go out of the Station House and are planning to shoot someone. If someone gets in the position the cop must shoot then they must have done something that put themselves in the position of being shot. Honest citizens, regardless of race, etc. do not put themselves in the position to be shot. :pepper2:

[kcrazorbackfan]

Unfortunately, two black males decided to shoplift the convenience store where the incident happened that night. Unfortunately, a white Police Officer responded to the call and not a black P/O, of which Berkeley, MO has a number of. Unfortunately, the white Officer had just been issued a body cam, but not had been trained in the use of it yet, so it wasn't activated. Unfortunately, the dash cam wasn't activated because the light bar wasn't activated. Unfortunately, the black male pulled a weapon on the white officer. Fortunately, the black male was too slow to pull the trigger, failed to pull the trigger, couldn't get the safety off, thought the officer would back down or pull out his pepper spray or pull his taser, as the black males mother thought should have happened. Fortunately, the white Officer, in that split second the black male pulled his weapon and pointed it at the white Officer, was able to recognize the black males weapon, draw his own weapon (no safety as Glocks have no safety), fire at the black male 3 times, fatally striking him once, and save his own life.

What did the black male do wrong? It's not rocket science to figure this out. What did the white officer do wrong? ABSOLUTELY, NOTHING.

Now, with all the facts as they are, why did the gathering of blacks, after this incident, decide to go across the street to another convenience store and start smashing windows at it? BECAUSE OF THE CULTURE OF VIOLENCE THAT THEY HAVE BEEN TAUGHT.

I really wonder if all this violence would have happened if Brown, Garner and Martin had been killed by black police officers? Probably not.

[pivo]

What saved the officer from being shot was he stumbled backwards and fell to the ground and then fired, I think the tug's aim was not sure because of the officer stunbling backward to the ground, the officer was very lucky.

[kcrazorbackfan]

What saved the officer from being shot was he stumbled backwards and fell to the ground and then fired, I think the tug's aim was not sure because of the officer stunbling backward to the ground, the officer was very lucky.

Whatever happened, we have one lucky Officer and one unlucky dumbs**t.

[jblum315]

Most likely the dumb ***t had never fired that gun before and was unfamiliar with it, just as the police officer was unfamiliar with his new camera, but knew how to use his gun. Not so much luck as inexperience and lack of training.

[graciegirl]

Apparently the Attorney Generals directions are in place. The media has not mentioned the race of people involved in serious issues when people have been killed or badly injured or shot at in the last couple of weeks.

. Perhaps law enforcement are getting more detail when they are looking for someone but no descriptors using race have been used lately on our local television stations.

[Jimturner]

Tough call when weighing public safty and freedom of speech. I would vote for protecting the public.

[graciegirl]

Tough call when weighing public safty and freedom of speech. I would vote for protecting the public.

I agree.

Last night I saw just the end of a show on ABC with Steve Harvey who is apparently running some kind of camps for disadvantaged youth without fathers. It sounded like such a GOOD thing to do. Did anyone else see all of it and care to comment?

[blueash]

I have a sister who when called to Jury Duty would tell the Judge that she is willing to serve BUT it is her belief that if someone gets as far as a criminal charge and court then they must be guilty of something and she would vote that way. I kind of feel this way with the current uproar about the Police protecting themselves. If someone gets as far that a policeman must pull his weapon then the person must be guilty of something and therefore the cop is right. Cops do not go out of the Station House and are planning to shoot someone. If someone gets in the position the cop must shoot then they must have done something that put themselves in the position of being shot. Honest citizens, regardless of race, etc. do not put themselves in the position to be shot. :pepper2:

Really? I hope I never get you or your sister on a jury. Do you not understand the concept of the presumption of innocence? It is fundamental to our nation, our Constitution, and to most religions if not all of them.

"A 61-year-old man was shot to death by police while his wife was handcuffed in another room during a drug raid on the wrong house.

Police admitted their mistake, saying faulty information from a drug informant contributed to the death of John Adams Wednesday night. They intended to raid the home next door. "

Or if that's not bad enough

"Sleeping 7-year-old girl shot in head during no-knock police raid on wrong home

"They blew my granddaughter's brains out. They killed her right before my eyes. I watched the light go out of her eyes."

Or John Crawford, what did he do "wrong" other than be black and therefore by definition very scary while carrying a toy in Walmart?

How about Akai Gurley. I bet you've never heard of him either?

"Brooklyn District Attorney Kenneth Thompson said Friday that a grand jury will be impaneled in the case of Akai Gurley, who was fatally shot by a rookie NYPD police officer in a dark public housing stairwell.

Police Commissioner William Bratton called the shooting a tragic accident, with Bratton saying Gurley was "a total innocent."

How about Victor White?
Yvette Smith? She was not only shot by a cop when she was doing what she was told and was unarmed but the police after the event reportedly altered the cops training records to falsify what his training had been.

Or read this eyewitness to a 16 yo being shot 11 times because a cop was primed to see a gun that did not exist. Eyewitness: Police Shot Kimani Gray While The 16-Year-Old Was On The Ground | Village Voice (http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2013/03/kimani_gray_4.php)

Was this kid completely compliant? Did he adjust his pants? Did he deserve to die? Is that the kind of policing you want for your grandchildren? Can you even begin for just a moment to understand that a black parent might fear his teen boy doing nothing more than hanging out might be the victim of a police "accident"? Sure you will point out that he is even more likely to be shot by a black gang member. Is that your best argument for excusing excess force by police against too may people of color?

Look, I like cops. One of my best friends is a former NYC cop who is obviously distressed by the murder of those two by a crazy person. But there are bad cops, there are poorly trained cops, and there are cops who when they see a black person especially a younger male, are too prone to use violence first. They are rare but they are there. And sadly when a person tries to point out these cases and that race plays a role and that black and brown people are the victims of that prejudice, some calling it playing the race card whereas I call it acknowledging reality and asking for justice.

[gerryann]

These cases are SO in the minority that I wonder why you feel the need to post them. None of these situations belong in a discussion about police officers defending themselves.
One of your best friends is a NYC officer, but you search out tragic accidents that were made. Send your posts to your NYC officer and ask him HIS opinion on the incidences you post.
You mention the black parent of teens who worry about their teen "just hanging around" and getting shot........tell that parent to monitor their teen and pay attention to where he is "hanging out". And take that knife or gun away from him.....and teach your child respect for police officers, or even fear of the police officer, if that's what it takes.
Your posts are disturbing to say the least.

[Beechie]

[QUOTE=blueash;986039]Really? I hope I never get you or your sister on a jury. Do you not understand the concept of the presumption of innocence? It is fundamental to our nation, our Constitution, and to most religions if not all of them.

Although I agree with your condemnation of blind support for law enforcement, I am not so sure I would want you as a juror if I were a Police Officer. Would you afford the same presumption of innocence? The mainstream media and high ranking members of the Government and others of your ilk were immediate in it's guilty judgement of the police.

I do want to believe in our law enforcement officers but I also want to hear the facts before judgement.

PS I would like to see cameras on all LEO as I believe there should be nothing to hide. Perhaps once that happens we can start to work on why there is a disproportionate amount of black crime and come up with real solutions to real problems.

[Jimturner]

Unless citizens immediately obey police commands you will be inviting chaos.

[blueash]

Although I agree with your condemnation of blind support for law enforcement, I am not so sure I would want you as a juror if I were a Police Officer. Would you afford the same presumption of innocence? The mainstream media and high ranking members of the Government and others of your ilk were immediate in it's guilty judgement of the police.

I do want to believe in our law enforcement officers but I also want to hear the facts before judgement.

PS I would like to see cameras on all LEO as I believe there should be nothing to hide. Perhaps once that happens we can start to work on why there is a disproportionate amount of black crime and come up with real solutions to real problems.

I am not sure what my ilk might be. I don't think I could have been any clearer in my endorsement of the presumption of innocence. And my presumption is the same for a cop, a clergyman, a member of a street gang, and anyone else in a courtroom. I am not aware, and maybe I missed it, of any high ranking members of the Government who were immediate in a guilty judgment of the police. I am aware of some who said that there are policing issues and that these need to be fixed. I am aware of several Fox news commentators (?the media you meant?) who criticized the lack of indictment of NYC cops in the death of Garner.

I would agree with this
" law enforcement has an incredibly difficult job; that every man or woman in uniform are putting their lives at risk to protect us; that they have the right to come home, just like we do from our jobs; that there’s real crime out there that they’ve got to tackle day in and day out -- but that they’re only going to be able to do their job effectively if everybody has confidence in the system."

and this from the AG
I know that substantial numbers of people in New York and across the country will be disappointed and frustrated by the outcome of the state grand jury proceeding today. I know many will plan to voice their disappointment publicly through protests. This is the right of all Americans. But as I have said before, throughout our history, the most successful movements have been those that adhered to the principles of nonviolence. I urge all those inclined to demonstrate tonight and in the days ahead to remain peaceful in their demonstrations, and not to engage in activities that deflect our attention from the very serious matters our nation must confront."

Are those the kinds of comments people of my ilk make that you might find offensive?

[graciegirl]

Really? I hope I never get you or your sister on a jury. Do you not understand the concept of the presumption of innocence? It is fundamental to our nation, our Constitution, and to most religions if not all of them.

"A 61-year-old man was shot to death by police while his wife was handcuffed in another room during a drug raid on the wrong house.

Police admitted their mistake, saying faulty information from a drug informant contributed to the death of John Adams Wednesday night. They intended to raid the home next door. "

Or if that's not bad enough

"Sleeping 7-year-old girl shot in head during no-knock police raid on wrong home

"They blew my granddaughter's brains out. They killed her right before my eyes. I watched the light go out of her eyes."

Or John Crawford, what did he do "wrong" other than be black and therefore by definition very scary while carrying a toy in Walmart?

How about Akai Gurley. I bet you've never heard of him either?

"Brooklyn District Attorney Kenneth Thompson said Friday that a grand jury will be impaneled in the case of Akai Gurley, who was fatally shot by a rookie NYPD police officer in a dark public housing stairwell.

Police Commissioner William Bratton called the shooting a tragic accident, with Bratton saying Gurley was "a total innocent."

How about Victor White?
Yvette Smith? She was not only shot by a cop when she was doing what she was told and was unarmed but the police after the event reportedly altered the cops training records to falsify what his training had been.

Or read this eyewitness to a 16 yo being shot 11 times because a cop was primed to see a gun that did not exist. Eyewitness: Police Shot Kimani Gray While The 16-Year-Old Was On The Ground | Village Voice (http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2013/03/kimani_gray_4.php)

Was this kid completely compliant? Did he adjust his pants? Did he deserve to die? Is that the kind of policing you want for your grandchildren? Can you even begin for just a moment to understand that a black parent might fear his teen boy doing nothing more than hanging out might be the victim of a police "accident"? Sure you will point out that he is even more likely to be shot by a black gang member. Is that your best argument for excusing excess force by police against too may people of color?

Look, I like cops. One of my best friends is a former NYC cop who is obviously distressed by the murder of those two by a crazy person. But there are bad cops, there are poorly trained cops, and there are cops who when they see a black person especially a younger male, are too prone to use violence first. They are rare but they are there. And sadly when a person tries to point out these cases and that race plays a role and that black and brown people are the victims of that prejudice, some calling it playing the race card whereas I call it acknowledging reality and asking for justice.


Yes there are bad cops, but not as many bad cops by percentage than horrible law breakers of the group we cannot speak of. If I had to wish that one group would become stronger, it would be the police officers. It is sad when innocent people are killed, but the kind of emphasis you give these scenarios make it appear that you really don't like law enforcement and really are pulling for the folks who get arrested way too frequently because they are doing bad things. I like people for what they do, not the color of their skin or the uniform they wear. There is a HUGE issue with young men in poor areas who do not have a father's influence or an example of a family wage earner turning toward drugs, their use and entering into the business of dealing drugs.

THAT IS THE BIG PROBLEM HERE...certainly greater than police officers killing people which does happen and certainly is horrible but it is not the focus of law enforcement nor is it the mindset of the majority of law enforcement.

The media is barking up the wrong tree and the opportunity for the president to make a huge difference to these young people is rapidly slipping away. In this area, I am SO disappointed. Someone needed to holler at them like a dad would.

[Jimturner]

Yes there are bad cops, but not as many bad cops by percentage than horrible law breakers of the group we cannot speak of. If I had to wish that one group would become stronger, it would be the police officers. It is sad when innocent people are killed, but the kind of emphasis you give these scenarios make it appear that you really don't like law enforcement and really are pulling for the folks who get arrested way too frequently because they are doing bad things. I like people for what they do, not the color of their skin or the uniform they wear. There is a HUGE issue with young men in poor areas who do not have a father's influence or an example of a family wage earner turning toward drugs, their use and entering into the business of dealing drugs.

THAT IS THE BIG PROBLEM HERE...certainly greater than police officers killing people which does happen and certainly is horrible but it is not the focus of law enforcement nor is it the mindset of the majority of law enforcement.

The media is barking up the wrong tree and the opportunity for the president to make a huge difference to these young people is rapidly slipping away. In this area, I am SO disappointed. Someone needed to holler at them like a dad would.

What I wanted from the Pres was: Get off the streets, leave this investigation to us, but what I heard was that he understood the anger. He may as well had issued an order to take the streets away from the order of law.

[blueash]

What I wanted from the Pres was: Get off the streets, leave this investigation to us, but what I heard was that he understood the anger. He may as well had issued an order to take the streets away from the order of law.

And under what authority would the POTUS order people to get off the streets short of a declaration of nationwide martial law? Instead the POTUS recognized the right to peacefully assemble and protest. And he recognized the importance of it being peaceful and following the well established laws. Further while he acknowledged the distrust people may have in the courts and the police he asked that we all work together to repair that injury.

I am aware that a former NYC mayor has accused Obama of being responsible for the shootings of the NYC officers and here is a fact check on that claim from
Giuliani: Obama 'propaganda' says 'everybody should hate the police' | PunditFact (http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/dec/23/rudy-giuliani/giuliani-obama-propaganda-says-everybody-should-ha/)

"Giuliani said Obama has said "that everybody should hate the police."

Throughout all of his comments since August, when the latest unrest over racial disparities in the criminal justice system began, Obama has continuously encouraged working with police to find solutions and make change. He has also repeatedly emphasized the importance of law enforcement in communities of color and the fact that police officers have a dangerous job.

Giuliani’s claim is an outlandish distortion of what Obama actually said. We rate this Pants on Fire."

''Our support for the right to peaceful assembly as well as our opposition to violence and force are well known and we again urge all sides to exercise restraint.''

[Jimturner]

No offense mr ash but my point was when the pres said he could understand their anger, in my opinion, he gave them the ok to riot and loot.

[blueash]

Yes there are bad cops, but not as many bad cops by percentage than horrible law breakers of the group we cannot speak of. If I had to wish that one group would become stronger, it would be the police officers. It is sad when innocent people are killed, but the kind of emphasis you give these scenarios make it appear that you really don't like law enforcement and really are pulling for the folks who get arrested way too frequently because they are doing bad things. I like people for what they do, not the color of their skin or the uniform they wear. There is a HUGE issue with young men in poor areas who do not have a father's influence or an example of a family wage earner turning toward drugs, their use and entering into the business of dealing drugs.

THAT IS THE BIG PROBLEM HERE...certainly greater than police officers killing people which does happen and certainly is horrible but it is not the focus of law enforcement nor is it the mindset of the majority of law enforcement.

The media is barking up the wrong tree and the opportunity for the president to make a huge difference to these young people is rapidly slipping away. In this area, I am SO disappointed. Someone needed to holler at them like a dad would.

GG as long as you acknowledge that there are some bad cops and that is all I ask. The big difference between bad cops and bad black males is the government, which means you and I, are responsible for the actions of the cops. I want everyone who deserves arrest and conviction to be equal before the law. Despite the venom from some posters who seem unable to spell my name, I am not anti cop, I am anti bad cop. I am anti bad soldier. I am anti bad black gang member, anti bad white gang member, anti- Madoff, anti- all the bad guys. I am pro truth, pro equality, pro honesty, and progressive.

I have absolutely consistently written that I know that the bad cops are a tiny percentage. I just don't see why people think that bad cops don't exist. I just don't see why people don't understand why people of color might fear the cops more than respect them in some situations. To the credit of the US Military, when Calley massacred over 100 at My Lai the military went after him. The soldiers at Abu Ghraib were fully disciplined. I think there is movement on military rape finally being addressed. I want our civil courts to do as good a job. I call that justice.

And GG I will continue to applaud good policing and continue to criticize bad policing. But you will see, if you look at my posting history do not raise the issue of bad policing except in response to the comments of others who deny it even exists.

[blueash]

The cherry picked response from the AG was the politically correct response in light of the rioting etc. However, in other responses he was fanning the flames of hatred as if there was an epidemic of cops killing black men. That is just being intellectually dishonest.

I do think there are many things that need to get done to bring some healing to our communities. Our law enforcement should continue to reach out to all communities and they should reflect, as much as possible, the demographics of their community. They should weed out those rogue individuals that are incapable of fair and just treatment. Black leaders need to be honest about fixing the problems within their communities and get to the source of this systemic problem.

See, we are getting somewhere in a positive way. I agree completely to most of your last paragraph. Now I ask that as you believe that the AG fanned the flames of hatred, please post some not cherry picked quotes that you found fit your definition, which may differ from mine, of fanning the flames.

[janmcn]

Let me be clear that I did not claim to be offended by your comments.

Correct me if I am wrong and I certainly don't want to paint all with same brush but your ilk would be those to the left of center with an historical propensity for disdain and/or distrust our men in uniform.

During the Michael Brown trial and eventual rioting in Ferguson, FNC was diametrically opposed to their CNN counterpart. Even though the evidence proved otherwise, CNN continued the whole "White Officer kills another black man" mantra while running the "don't shoot" clip. I also believe that in the Eric Garner case there should have been an indictment of the officer in question as the video was quite compelling.

The cherry picked response from the AG was the politically correct response in light of the rioting etc. However, in other responses he was fanning the flames of hatred as if there was an epidemic of cops killing black men. That is just being intellectually dishonest.

I do think there are many things that need to get done to bring some healing to our communities. Our law enforcement should continue to reach out to all communities and they should reflect, as much as possible, the demographics of their community. They should weed out those rogue individuals that are incapable of fair and just treatment. Black leaders need to be honest about fixing the problems within their communities and get to the source of this systemic problem.



Congress passed a law just before they adjourned that requires all police departments in the country to report a shooting by one of their officers. Apparently these records were never kept or made public in the past. Now, at least, we will have accurate records on which to make a judgement.

The president's task force has 90 days to come up with recommendations. At that time, many changes will be made, including discontinuing the use of a grand jury and using a special prosecutor instead, IMO.

Police departments across the country must be mandated to reflect the demographics of the communities they serve.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Apparently the Attorney Generals directions are in place. The media has not mentioned the race of people involved in serious issues when people have been killed or badly injured or shot at in the last couple of weeks.

. Perhaps law enforcement are getting more detail when they are looking for someone but no descriptors using race have been used lately on our local television stations.

GG, there really doesn't have to be a description of race when you see violence just hours afterward, does there? When we see violence, we KNOW
it was a white Officer that shot a black. Think about it, you're sure not going to see "them" rioting when a black officer shoots a black or a black civilian shoots another black civilian, will we. Why aren't "they" protesting the black/black violence?

[jimmemac]

/

Police departments across the country must be mandated to reflect the demographics of the communities they serve.

I want the best police force protecting me, I want the best teachers teaching kids; I don't care what color, sex or nationality they are! When you mandate these things you will not get the best necessarily!!

[Beechie]

See, we are getting somewhere in a positive way. I agree completely to most of your last paragraph. Now I ask that as you believe that the AG fanned the flames of hatred, please post some not cherry picked quotes that you found fit your definition, which may differ from mine, of fanning the flames.

Just curious as to what part of my last paragraph were you at odds with blueash? Healing requires both the Police and the Black Community to accept their responsibilities moving forward. A Police Force deemed acceptable to the black community would not equate to the elimination of crime. Respect for the law and fair treatment of it's citizens would make this discussion go away but we need to be honest and leave our pride at the door in order to remedy.

[graciegirl]

Congress passed a law just before they adjourned that requires all police departments in the country to report a shooting by one of their officers. Apparently these records were never kept or made public in the past. Now, at least, we will have accurate records on which to make a judgement.

The president's task force has 90 days to come up with recommendations. At that time, many changes will be made, including discontinuing the use of a grand jury and using a special prosecutor instead, IMO.

Police departments across the country must be mandated to reflect the demographics of the communities they serve.


WHY? I don't see the logic in that. Then we in Sumter County should have white, older, Republican, Church going, solvent people on our police force. I don't know how Lt. Wolfe votes but he is one great, solid looking, diligent, and honorable younger black man and I vote to keep him.

[kcrazorbackfan]

I agree.

Last night I saw just the end of a show on ABC with Steve Harvey who is apparently running some kind of camps for disadvantaged youth without fathers. It sounded like such a GOOD thing to do. Did anyone else see all of it and care to comment?

What Steve Harvey did was a good thing. I did not see it, but what was the percentage of the majority of race of disadvantaged youths without fathers? And the reason I ask that, is that whenever the KC or STL media outlets (NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX) show a news segment on a school program giveaway or a government giveaway, etc., the majority shown (in most cases about 95-98%) are black youths. Their parent(s) have had as much of a chance to provide for their children as white parents have had, but chose to take the easy way out.

I was in a KC car dealership yesterday looking to downsize from my pickup to a small vehicle for getting around better in TV. At a table adjacent to me, a black couple was loudly objecting to the sales person and sales manager (both white) the fact they could not get financing on a car and then out it came - "you won't finance us because we're black". The sales manager's response was "no, actually, it's because your credit is horrible and you don't have any down payment". Of course, that's wasn't what they wanted to believe and stormed out, overturning several tables and chairs as they left and my thought was "Typical". Sort of reminded me of the latest violence in the STL suburb of Berkeley going on - the rioters don't want to believe the physical evidence of a black youth pointing a gun at a white officer and getting shot.

[dbussone]

Congress passed a law just before they adjourned that requires all police departments in the country to report a shooting by one of their officers. Apparently these records were never kept or made public in the past. Now, at least, we will have accurate records on which to make a judgement.

The president's task force has 90 days to come up with recommendations. At that time, many changes will be made, including discontinuing the use of a grand jury and using a special prosecutor instead, IMO.

Police departments across the country must be mandated to reflect the demographics of the communities they serve.

I was on a grand jury for six months (two weeks up front, two weeks in the middle, and two weeks in the back) in Jackson Mississippi. The grand jury reflected the diversity of the community. We had 23 members. A majority vote was required to indict. We talked things through when there were differences and the vast majority of votes were unanimous or near unanimous.

I would keep the grand jury system over a "special prosecutor" (one person) any day. Don't condemn it if you don't know it or understand it. Grand juries go back, I believe, to the Magna Carta.

[Rags123]

And under what authority would the POTUS order people to get off the streets short of a declaration of nationwide martial law? Instead the POTUS recognized the right to peacefully assemble and protest. And he recognized the importance of it being peaceful and following the well established laws. Further while he acknowledged the distrust people may have in the courts and the police he asked that we all work together to repair that injury.

I am aware that a former NYC mayor has accused Obama of being responsible for the shootings of the NYC officers and here is a fact check on that claim from
Giuliani: Obama 'propaganda' says 'everybody should hate the police' | PunditFact (http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/dec/23/rudy-giuliani/giuliani-obama-propaganda-says-everybody-should-ha/)

"Giuliani said Obama has said "that everybody should hate the police."

Throughout all of his comments since August, when the latest unrest over racial disparities in the criminal justice system began, Obama has continuously encouraged working with police to find solutions and make change. He has also repeatedly emphasized the importance of law enforcement in communities of color and the fact that police officers have a dangerous job.

Giuliani’s claim is an outlandish distortion of what Obama actually said. We rate this Pants on Fire."

''Our support for the right to peaceful assembly as well as our opposition to violence and force are well known and we again urge all sides to exercise restraint.''

Here is what is bothering me A LOT.

These "demonstrations" as they are called are making heroes out of criminals.

These "demonstrations" as they are called have been supported a great deal and Sharpton has used for organization at least two communist party groups.

A.N.S.W.E.R Coalition.....ANSWER Coalition Home (http://www.answercoalition.org/)

Revolution Communist Party of the USA.....Revolution revcom.us (http://revcom.us/)

Persue their websites and I will supply some links so you dont think I am a conspiracy theory nut case to show them mentioned in news articles.

So, we have two very active and large communist party groups supporting people who are criminals....I KNOW...I KNOW...not all, but read the background on those arrested. Actually, a "HERO" from Ferguson who was "for peaceful demonstrations" was arrested for arson in the latest.

Why nobody is upset about this is well beyond me. Instead we propose more things to constrict those who enforce the law.

A few links to show I am not making this up.


Some who gathered around a burning police car Nov. 24 wore the trademark mask of Anonymous, the online activist collective. The group, which has taken part in the Ferguson protests since August, released a video three days earlier threatening local police and saying “we are the law now.” Members of the Revolutionary Communist Party have also joined nightly protests, urging demonstrators to defy police orders and risk arrest.

At Ferguson Protests, Pastors, Communists and Everyone Else. The Korean Culture Association? - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-01/pastors-join-communists-as-protests-linger-over-ferguson.html)

"Answer Coalition, organizers of a march on 5th Avenue in midtown Manhattan, said a "peaceful protest against police violence" would continue as planned. "The mayor's call for a suspension of democracy and the exercise of free speech rights in the face of ongoing injustice is outrageous."

NY protesters reject plea for hiatus despite police slayings | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/23/us-usa-police-idUSKBN0K11IV20141223)

One of the most frequently quoted and photographed Ferguson protesters was charged Saturday with setting fire to a Berkeley convenience store last week. St. Louis County police arrested Joshua Williams, 19, of St. Louis, on Friday after several local media outlets and store surveillance captured images of him trying to set a pile of wood on fire outside the QuikTrip on North Hanley Road early Wednesday.

Williams confessed to setting fires at the store in a videotaped interview, according to court documents.

“Josh is one of the young activists, and all of us have taken close to him. We got to know his heart, and he got to know ours,” said Bishop Derrick Robinson, of Kingdom Destiny Fellowship International. “He’s a great kid, an educated kid, a child who knows what he wants and is very active in the community.”

Protester who advocates peace charged with setting fire at Berkeley QT : News (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/protester-who-advocates-peace-charged-with-setting-fire-at-berkeley/article_ad4006c5-06ab-5b7e-8a7f-3fd2ed4dbbcb.html)

These are the folks that we find people BLINDLY supporting and making heroes of them.....recall the guy who was arrested for making the threatening comments about white cops...when arrested IN A BMW, he had marijuana, TWO guns and brass knuckles.

I fear for the direction of this country. WHERE ARE THE LEADERS. Quick to condemn the law KEEPERS and assist, albeit passively, the law BREAKERS.

PLEASE visit these two organizations websites....THESE ARE THE folks allowed to influence the youth

[graciegirl]

GG, there really doesn't have to be a description of race when you see violence just hours afterward, does there? When we see violence, we KNOW
it was a white Officer that shot a black. Think about it, you're sure not going to see "them" rioting when a black officer shoots a black or a black civilian shoots another black civilian, will we. Why aren't "they" protesting the black/black violence?

Police officers may KNOW a lot of things...but Most police officers I know do not bring up race, nor do they use foul language. They treat all people with dignity, unless they start to resist arrest. Most of them are not fixated on race, but aware of where the crime areas are and know the law. They are realists, not racists. They do not try to stir the pot but to pour oil on troubled waters. THAT is my experience with police officers that I know.

But...I personally do not have any dealings with them when they are on duty and I would like to keep it that way. I like being naïve and law abiding..

[Sandtrap328]

Here is what is bothering me A LOT.

These "demonstrations" as they are called are making heroes out of criminals.

These "demonstrations" as they are called have been supported a great deal and Sharpton has used for organization at least two communist party groups.

A.N.S.W.E.R Coalition.....ANSWER Coalition Home (http://www.answercoalition.org/)

Revolution Communist Party of the USA.....Revolution revcom.us (http://revcom.us/)

Persue their websites and I will supply some links so you dont think I am a conspiracy theory nut case to show them mentioned in newyys articles.

So, we have two very active and large communist party groups supporting people who are criminals....I KNOW...I KNOW...not all, but read the background on those arrested. Actually, a "HERO" from Ferguson who was "for peaceful demonstrations" was arrested for arson in the latest.

Why nobody is upset about this is well beyond me. Instead we propose more things to constrict those who enforce the law.

A few links to show I am not making this up.


Some who gathered around a burning police car Nov. 24 wore the trademark mask of Anonymous, the online activist collective. The group, which has taken part in the Ferguson protests since August, released a video three days earlier threatening local police and saying “we are the law now.” Members of the Revolutionary Communist Party have also joined nightly protests, urging demonstrators to defy police orders and risk arrest.

At Ferguson Protests, Pastors, Communists and Everyone Else. The Korean Culture Association? - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-01/pastors-join-communists-as-protests-linger-over-ferguson.html)

"Answer Coalition, organizers of a march on 5th Avenue in midtown Manhattan, said a "peaceful protest against police violence" would continue as planned. "The mayor's call for a suspension of democracy and the exercise of free speech rights in the face of ongoing injustice is outrageous."

NY protesters reject plea for hiatus despite police slayings | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/23/us-usa-police-idUSKBN0K11IV20141223)

One of the most frequently quoted and photographed Ferguson protesters was charged Saturday with setting fire to a Berkeley convenience store last week. St. Louis County police arrested Joshua Williams, 19, of St. Louis, on Friday after several local media outlets and store surveillance captured images of him trying to set a pile of wood on fire outside the QuikTrip on North Hanley Road early Wednesday.

Williams confessed to setting fires at the store in a videotaped interview, according to court documents.

“Josh is one of the young activists, and all of us have taken close to him. We got to know his heart, and he got to know ours,” said Bishop Derrick Robinson, of Kingdom Destiny Fellowship International. “He’s a great kid, an educated kid, a child who knows what he wants and is very active in the community.”

Protester who advocates peace charged with setting fire at Berkeley QT : News (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/protester-who-advocates-peace-charged-with-setting-fire-at-berkeley/article_ad4006c5-06ab-5b7e-8a7f-3fd2ed4dbbcb.html)

These are the folks that we find people BLINDLY supporting and making heroes of them.....recall the guy who was arrested for making the threatening comments about white cops...when arrested IN A BMW, he had marijuana, TWO guns and brass knuckles.

I fear for the direction of this country. WHERE ARE THE LEADERS. Quick to condemn the law KEEPERS and assist, albeit passively, the law BREAKERS.

PLEASE visit these two organizations websites....THESE ARE THE folks allowed to influence the youth

You and I may not like an organization or individuals such as those you mentioned - but doesn't Amendment 1 of the US Constitution guarantee them free speech and freedom of the press? It also guarantees freedom of peaceable assembly. When it is not peaceable, of course, legal steps have to be taken.

[Rags123]

You and I may not like an organization or individuals such as those you mentioned - but doesn't Amendment 1 of the US Constitution guarantee them free speech and freedom of the press? It also guarantees freedom of peaceable assembly. When it is not peaceable, of course, legal steps have to be taken.

I understand the law..no lecture necessary. I just do not like it. You can defend it, but I still do not like it. And I am speaking of the protestors being lead by communists not the constitution.

I heard the President defend those protestors...I heard him speak up and actually laud the NBA players who were publicly supporting them. I have heard a number of high ranking officals laud them. I guess I am just sick of it all.

I know that the one communist party pays for the signs, etc. I am just so sick of the fraud of the entire thing.

You can defend them all you want and join our leaders in defending them...but I am sorry...I am just tired of it all. I am speaking of communists leading black criminal types against those who enforce the law and having leaders from the WH to the mayor NYC actually laud those people.

No....applaud if you want...I will reserve my applause for real heroes, not these media made heroes. As it unwinds as I said and showed, the "heroes" are thugs, sponsored by the communist party.

I want leadership and I do not see this as leadership. I am sure that many will be invited to the WH and have pictures taken....

SOrry for the rant but I cannot join you in your applause...I am disgusted.

And even more because folks like you, will not use the same ammendment to even criticize them....just lecture us on how they have the right. Ok...got it....I have the same right to not like it.

PS: I am struck that anyone who was going to post would have a FIRST reaction to not discuss the intent but to give a mini lecture as if people were not aware of the first ammendment...striking first reaction to me anyway, but ...whatever

[kcrazorbackfan]

Police officers may KNOW a lot of things...but Most police officers I know do not bring up race, nor do they use foul language. They treat all people with dignity, unless they start to resist arrest. Most of them are not fixated on race, but aware of where the crime areas are and know the law. They are realists, not racists. They do not try to stir the pot but to pour oil on troubled waters. THAT is my experience with police officers that I know.

But...I personally do not have any dealings with them when they are on duty and I would like to keep it that way. I like being naïve and law abiding..

Oh, GracieGirl. It is quite a different experience you will see from when you have LEO's talking to law abiding citizens like yourself and what actually goes on in the real world around the trash and riff-raff. Neither myself, my wife or my son are racists; and consequently, we have always treated everyone we came in contact with the same respect they treated us. Was I and is my wife and son more aware and more observant when we had/have to go into certain areas more than others? Of course we were. But we didn't/don't pour fuel on the fire just to show our authority.

People in TV need to do a ride-along with a LEO just to get a little taste of what it's really like. It's sure not like what you see on C.S.I, Law and Order, etc., etc.

[blueash]

No offense mr ash but my point was when the pres said he could understand their anger, in my opinion, he gave them the ok to riot and loot.

And when you have had a disagreement with a loved one and said " I understand you are upset", should they take that as an invitation to escalate the problem or see it as an attempt to diffuse the situation. Can you understand the anger in the black community even if you don't agree with their point of view?

Here is the text from the press conference that is the source of that comment:

So let me close just saying a few words about the tensions there. We have all seen images of protestors and law enforcement in the streets. It's clear that the vast majority of people are peacefully protesting. What’s also clear is that a small minority of individuals are not. While I understand the passions and the anger that arise over the death of Michael Brown, giving into that anger by looting or carrying guns, and even attacking the police only serves to raise tensions and stir chaos. It undermines rather than advancing justice.

Let me also be clear that our constitutional rights to speak freely, to assemble, and to report in the press must be vigilantly safeguarded, especially in moments like these. There’s no excuse for excessive force by police or any action that denies people the right to protest peacefully. Ours is a nation of laws for the citizens who live under them and for the citizens who enforce them.

So to a community in Ferguson that is rightly hurting and looking for answers, let me call once again for us to seek some understanding rather than simply holler at each other. Let’s seek to heal rather than to wound each other. As Americans, we've got to use this moment to seek out our shared humanity that's been laid bare by this moment -- the potential of a young man and the sorrows of parents, the frustrations of a community, the ideals that we hold as one united American family. ...
I want to be clear about this, because sometimes I think there’s confusion around these issues and this dates back for decades. There are young black men that commit crime. And we can argue about why that happened -- because of the poverty they were born into and the lack of opportunity, or the schools systems that failed them, or what have you. But if they commit a crime, then they need to be prosecuted because every community has an interest in public safety. And if you go into the African American community or the Latino community, some of the folks who are most intent on making sure that criminals are dealt with are people who have been preyed upon by them."


And from that comment by Obama, people somehow conclude he is responsible for the cop killer? He clearly in the very same sentence in which he said he understood the anger, that he said that looting serves chaos and undermines justice.

[jimmemac]

Click on the 7 second video FIRST and then read what is below on this page.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=670841776267356&fref=nf

This video is of actual Detectives attempting to stop a CRIMINAL in Chicago. This Video was taken by a Police Officer Videographer who, was also in harm's way.
WATCH the Video First... Two or Three Times if You Want... (and) THEN Read TheText Below...
DON'T READ UNTIL YOU WATCH THE VIDEO! Please remember these cops acted in real time.

THIS PERSON DOES GET SHOT BY THE DETECTIVES. THIS IS FOR REAL. Don't scroll down and read until you see this 8 sec. video.

WHAT DID YOU SEE???? Officers ordered the suspect to put the assault rifle down, and that is what he is doing, Right? it appears he is complying and then they shoot him! OMG, he is shot! Is that what you saw? Do you want to know what it is like to work the streets as a cop, and what risks our Officers face daily? Watch the video again... Watch the suspect's right hand while he places the rifle down with his left hand. What you don't see by facing this Criminal face to face, but the Officer behind the suspect does see, is the suspect pulling a hidden handgun from his rear pants, with his right hand - the back-up yells "Gun" before firing.

Watch as the bad guy goes down..... the handgun is still in his right hand. This is a reminder... What you think you see does not always tell the truth.

Watch it again, and learn! NOW, pass this on to EVERYONE on your email list, so they can do the same. It's time for Mr. and Mrs. Citizen as well as the Media have a better understanding of why people REALLY get shot and WHY our Officers are always in Jeopardy. Think I would rather try to ride a bull for 8 seconds, how about you?






--
God Bless

[blueash]

Just curious as to what part of my last paragraph were you at odds with blueash? Healing requires both the Police and the Black Community to accept their responsibilities moving forward. A Police Force deemed acceptable to the black community would not equate to the elimination of crime. Respect for the law and fair treatment of it's citizens would make this discussion go away but we need to be honest and leave our pride at the door in order to remedy.

Black leaders need to be honest about fixing the problems within their communities and get to the source of this systemic problem.

I would suggest that it is not the job of black leaders, whomever you think that means, to fix the problems. I think all of the ones you might name have been forthright about reducing single parenting, avoiding criminal acts, respecting the law and obeying police, staying off drugs. If you are not aware of what they have suggested, it is because those comments may not make it onto the MSM.

"We need fathers to recognize that responsibility doesn’t just end at conception. Too many fathers are M.I.A., too many fathers are AWOL, missing from too many lives and too many homes. They have abandoned their responsibilities, acting like boys instead of men. And the foundations of our families are weaker because of it.”
Mr. Obama, telling the mostly black audience not to “just sit in the house watching ‘SportsCenter,’ ” and to stop praising themselves for mediocre accomplishments.

“Don’t get carried away with that eighth-grade graduation,” he said, bringing many members of the congregation to their feet, applauding. “You’re supposed to graduate from eighth grade.”
We need families to raise our children,” he said at the service on Sunday. “We need fathers to recognize that responsibility doesn’t just end at conception. That doesn’t just make you a father. What makes you a man is not the ability to have a child. Any fool can have a child. That doesn’t make you a father. It’s the courage to raise a child that makes you a father"

And what has Sharpton said about the issues in the black inner city?

"We're making it fashionable to be down there on the floor, embracing it, and cool to be black and doing jail time. To be having eight kids from eight different baby mamas. I think that's sick.
I will always preach that black men must take responsibility for their children. I've never taught anyone that the inequality and unfairness they might face is an excuse or a justification not to do everything in their power to overcome. While women like my mother made sure that my generation was challenged by what we didn't have, now it seems to define us, limit us, break us"

Are these not clear calls for improvement in the black community? I know, you never saw this stuff. Is calling it "sick" strong enough for you?

And now that I've addressed your concern, I still await those statements you believe that "fanned the flames" to use your phrase.

[VT2TV]

Excellent video, shows exactly why police have to have a huge index of suspicion, and why they have to go with their gut sometimes. Unfortunately, there are rare occasions when they may be wrong, but if they hesitate even 1 second to question their gut, they are probably already dead. The criminals DO NOT play fair. You can criticize me if you want, but I would rather have them fire their guns than be fired upon. But again, it all goes back to ..if the suspected criminals would just listen to the police, and obey what the officer says, EVERYONE will stay alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[blueash]

Congress passed a law just before they adjourned that requires all police departments in the country to report a shooting by one of their officers. Apparently these records were never kept or made public in the past. Now, at least, we will have accurate records on which to make a judgement.

The president's task force has 90 days to come up with recommendations. At that time, many changes will be made, including discontinuing the use of a grand jury and using a special prosecutor instead, IMO.

Police departments across the country must be mandated to reflect the demographics of the communities they serve.

I am not finding any such law passed by this Congress. The closest is a reauthorization of a 2000 law that expired in 2006 and was never enforced which required reporting of deaths of people in custody.

https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/2013/12/12/house-section/article/H8047-1
That law and this do not cover deaths of people who are not being arrested or in custody and there is nothing about reporting of non-lethal events or use of weapons by LEO.
"the death of any
person who is detained, under arrest, or is in the process of
being arrested, is en route to be incarcerated, or is
incarcerated "

The only thing new is a possible financial penalty for those agencies that fail to report their data. Under this law, the AG has two years to prepare a report to Congress for Congress to consider and decide upon what if any actions may be needed. There is no provision of a Presidential task force nor any 90 day deadline. Nor does this law have anything to do with grand juries or special prosecutors. It is aimed at improving the medical care, violence (inmate on inmate) and any other issues they may find. It has almost nothing to do with the issues of possible policing caused deaths. So what is the new law you mention?

[graciegirl]

And when you have had a disagreement with a loved one and said " I understand you are upset", should they take that as an invitation to escalate the problem or see it as an attempt to diffuse the situation. Can you understand the anger in the black community even if you don't agree with their point of view?

Here is the text from the press conference that is the source of that comment:

So let me close just saying a few words about the tensions there. We have all seen images of protestors and law enforcement in the streets. It's clear that the vast majority of people are peacefully protesting. What’s also clear is that a small minority of individuals are not. While I understand the passions and the anger that arise over the death of Michael Brown, giving into that anger by looting or carrying guns, and even attacking the police only serves to raise tensions and stir chaos. It undermines rather than advancing justice.

Let me also be clear that our constitutional rights to speak freely, to assemble, and to report in the press must be vigilantly safeguarded, especially in moments like these. There’s no excuse for excessive force by police or any action that denies people the right to protest peacefully. Ours is a nation of laws for the citizens who live under them and for the citizens who enforce them.

So to a community in Ferguson that is rightly hurting and looking for answers, let me call once again for us to seek some understanding rather than simply holler at each other. Let’s seek to heal rather than to wound each other. As Americans, we've got to use this moment to seek out our shared humanity that's been laid bare by this moment -- the potential of a young man and the sorrows of parents, the frustrations of a community, the ideals that we hold as one united American family. ...
I want to be clear about this, because sometimes I think there’s confusion around these issues and this dates back for decades. There are young black men that commit crime. And we can argue about why that happened -- because of the poverty they were born into and the lack of opportunity, or the schools systems that failed them, or what have you. But if they commit a crime, then they need to be prosecuted because every community has an interest in public safety. And if you go into the African American community or the Latino community, some of the folks who are most intent on making sure that criminals are dealt with are people who have been preyed upon by them."


And from that comment by Obama, people somehow conclude he is responsible for the cop killer? He clearly in the very same sentence in which he said he understood the anger, that he said that looting serves chaos and undermines justice.


THAT comment by Obama could have been backed up with a lecture on following the orders of a police officer and a lecture on NOT breaking the law and that lecture could have been addressed to EVERYONE. He said that Trayvon Martin could have been his son. I understand his identification and sympathy, I think most of us do unless we truly are haters. But I believe that his comments WERE encouraging to many of the protestors. I think you believe that there are a lot of police that shoot to kill MORE when a person is black. I don't think it happens often. WHAT DOES HAPPEN way to often is that young black youth are crossways of the law more than young white youth are. Statistically.

I think what we should be doing and what President Obama should be doing is addressing the reasons WHY so many young black youth are crossways of the law. Being angry at the reasons WHY that is happening. Recognizing that young urban poor are breaking the law brings shame and more shame, but the shame is warranted.

We really had been heading in the right direction and now we are ALL heading in the other direction. You cannot legislate morality but you can stand as a leader and tell what is wrong and direct people to see when they are wrong. The last few speeches have been more emphatic about the grand jury being the way the law is written, but it wasn't emphatic ENOUGH. Too many protestors didn't hear it.

It is time for the young urban poor to have a good example. I think some of our new immigrants MAY be the good example. I am very tired of the excuses of so many to not do right. They are shaming all of the good people who have managed to rise above the awful prejudice and laws that segregated and held them back.

We can't change being white or black, but I feel that we have in place a reasonable law based fairness that would enable ALL people to make their way and support their families without breaking the law.

If you want to be rich in this country, no matter what your color is, you have to rise early and work hard and delay gratification and if that doesn't work, get another job and work harder. If people look down on you, prove them wrong.

I think that the majority of the population is pulling for the minority who has not been treated fairly in the past. We elected as a nation, a black president.

I think that the sympathy that the president showed has caused the problem to escalate and we are experiencing tensions that could escalate to a war between races.

Mrs. Obama could have chosen a better project than improving school lunches. She could have walked among the poor and talked to them about what she knows about being black in America and help encourage and direct them. Eleanor Roosevelt did just that kind of thing as first lady..

[Jimturner]

THAT comment by Obama could have been backed up with a lecture on following the orders of a police officer and a lecture on NOT breaking the law and that lecture could have been addressed to EVERYONE. He said that Trayvon Martin could have been his son. I understand his identification and sympathy, I think most of us do unless we truly are haters. But I believe that his comments WERE encouraging to many of the protestors. I think you believe that there are a lot of police that shoot to kill MORE when a person is black. I don't think it happens often. WHAT DOES HAPPEN way to often is that young black youth are crossways of the law more than young white youth are. Statistically.

I think what we should be doing and what President Obama should be doing is addressing the reasons WHY so many young black youth are crossways of the law. Being angry at the reasons WHY that is happening. Recognizing that young urban poor are breaking the law brings shame and more shame, but the shame is warranted.

We really had been heading in the right direction and now we are ALL heading in the other direction. You cannot legislate morality but you can stand as a leader and tell what is wrong and direct people to see when they are wrong. The last few speeches have been more emphatic about the grand jury being the way the law is written, but it wasn't emphatic ENOUGH. Too many protestors didn't hear it.

It is time for the young urban poor to have a good example. I think some of our new immigrants MAY be the good example. I am very tired of the excuses of so many to not do right. They are shaming all of the good people who have managed to rise above the awful prejudice and laws that segregated and held them back.

We can't change being white or black, but I feel that we have in place a reasonable law based fairness that would enable ALL people to make their way and support their families without breaking the law.

If you want to be rich in this country, no matter what your color is, you have to rise early and work hard and delay gratification and if that doesn't work, get another job and work harder. If people look down on you, prove them wrong.

I think that the majority of the population is pulling for the minority who has not been treated fairly in the past. We elected as a nation, a black president.

I think that the sympathy that the president showed has caused the problem to escalate and we are experiencing tensions that could escalate to a war between races.

Mrs. Obama could have chosen a better project than improving school lunches. She could have walked among the poor and talked to them about what she knows about being black in America and help encourage and direct them. Eleanor Roosevelt did just that kind of thing as first lady..

Nice article. I would add that being overly politically correct is angering whites and is causing more devide. Everyone needs the whole truth, not the media spin.

[Taltarzac725]

I am a white, Anglo-Saxon male.

I remember going for an interview-- which they paid to fly me from O'hare near Chicago to Raleigh-Durham-- for a law librarian reference position around 1994 at North Carolina Central University's Law School. When I applied I was just applying to every opening in law librarianship there was not realizing that North Carolina Central University is primarily an African American school.

I found that out while researching for the interview.

When I got there, the man who picked me up from the airport could tell that I was a little worried. It was more about my 224 613 Project though and not going into a very unfamiliar place where I would become the minority and quickly. (My 224 613 Project was/is to improve the quality of materials accessible for survivors/victims of crimes in libraries through creating a dialog between victim/witness providers and librarians).

I never saw so many shades of black while at NCCU. My fears about my 224 613 Project were set aside too because Professor Fred Williams admitted to me that he had been a victim of crime and he taught Criminal Law.

I did not get the job or do well further in the interview process because the Law School Dean accused me of lying about supervising document retrieval on my resume to what seemed like the shock of the law librarian. Pretty much this is done by anyone with student employees who works on a reference desk in a busy library. Not lying but checking the work of students who are copying items requested over the phone or fax. It is like being a waiter and checking water glasses if they need refilling.

My points here are that racism is never simple. It seemed to me that darker shades of African Americans were sometimes the victims of prejudice when compared with those of lighter skin. And, vice versa as well. There did seem to be status groups at NCCU. Unfortunately for me, the Law Librarian who chose to fly me out at their expense was not high on the totem pole.

And, that people can lie, cheat, and manipulate no matter what their race if there are political forces at work. I was fighting some powerful forces with my 224 613 Project and seemed to make enemies who would do anything they could to deny me re-entry into the law librarianship profession. Many of these people were white, some black, some of some kind of undefined colors. I remember seeing a man who looked like a African American albino at NCCU Law School.

And I do think that racial thinking came into play with how they handled me at NCCU. They always made sure that there were some of the very few whites on their staff at the various functions I went to during my stay at NCCU. At the lunches, interviews, and from the man who picked me up at the airport. A Southern white gentleman who was one of the reference librarians. He did notice that I liked a little worried about coming to a very different place. I do think that they had a charming Southern white man pick me up at the airport assuming that I was of the same race.