Another airplane missing. 162 passengers.

[graciegirl]

What do you think happened to it?

[Challenger]

What do you think happened to it?

storms are bad stuff. Dont fly too close because they bite.

My son Flies for a British owned airline based in SE Asia. Their pilots are mostly from former British colonies and western Europe. They will universally tell you that there are serious cultural issues in the cokpit with many of the asian pilots. Obviously this is not genetic but definitely is related to cultural norms and educational and training methods.

Air crashes are complicated and there are generally a series of events that lead up to the umtimate disaster. Pilot error is the most frequent contributor, but there is no doubt that sometimes a plane is just in the wrong place at the wrong time

[alwann]

"....there are serious cultural issues in the cokpit with many of the asian pilots."

An interesting comment. Please elaborate, Challenger.

[Challenger]

"....there are serious cultural issues in the cokpit with many of the asian pilots."

An interesting comment. Please elaborate, Challenger.

Until the last year or so , no one spoke about "cultural" issues , except pilots.
If you watch the news channels today you will hear it loud and clear,

Generally, some asian trained pilots will not question authority figures ie.
first officer is timid about questioning decisions of the captain. Americans and Brits are trained to challenge authority if they are making an error.
American pilots are trained to make any deviation needed to protect the flight regards of policy or rules . Some Asian pilots won't question Air Traffic Control.

There were some bad decisions made in this case. The final result may not have been avoidable once the decision to fly into the storm was made.

The pilot was responsible in the final analysis for that decision

[kstew43]

hijacked.....?:shrug:

[zcaveman]

What do you think happened to it?

Do you have a link to an article on this? I did not see it in the DS. But them I might have just missed it.

Z

[alwann]

Until the last year or so , no one spoke about "cultural" issues , except pilots.
If you watch the news channels today you will hear it loud and clear,

Generally, some asian trained pilots will not question authority figures ie.
first officer is timid about questioning decisions of the captain. Americans and Brits are trained to challenge authority if they are making an error.
American pilots are trained to make any deviation needed to protect the flight regards of policy or rules . Some Asian pilots won't question Air Traffic Control.

There were some bad decisions made in this case. The final result may not have been avoidable once the decision to fly into the storm was made.

The pilot was responsible in the final analysis for that decision


Well, that certainly could explain the pilot's mental state. The co-pilot was French, however. I imagine he/she put up a strong argument.

[blueash]

Until the last year or so , no one spoke about "cultural" issues , except pilots.
If you watch the news channels today you will hear it loud and clear,

Generally, some asian trained pilots will not question authority figures ie.
first officer is timid about questioning decisions of the captain. Americans and Brits are trained to challenge authority if they are making an error.
American pilots are trained to make any deviation needed to protect the flight regards of policy or rules . Some Asian pilots won't question Air Traffic Control.

There were some bad decisions made in this case. The final result may not have been avoidable once the decision to fly into the storm was made.

The pilot was responsible in the final analysis for that decision

You obviously have some direct knowledge of this concern. However on this flight, the pilot is Indonesian and the copilot is Western European. As you described the problem as being Asian non-captains who won't question the pilot, here we have a copilot who is French. Additionally, the reports online of last communication " when one of the pilots "asked to avoid clouds by turning left and going higher to 34,000 feet (10,360 meters)," Murjatmodjo said. It was last seen on radar at 6:16 a.m. and was gone a minute later" So it seems that the pilot was planning on avoiding, not flying into the storm. It is possible there was a storm larger than anticipated, but clearly the pilot, if this report is correct, attempted to NOT fly into the storm.

Is there any issue with senior pilots ignoring the warnings of other flight crew members or is it just that the non-pilots are culturally constrained from expressing their concerns to a senior officer? Or both?

Whatever the cause(s), we all share the hope that this aircraft is found and that there are survivors.

Edit: I think I should note that what I am seeing online is that the pilot asked for a change. I cannot find anywhere whether permission was given, denied, or even needed, or whether the request was for a change at the time of the contact or for a change say five minutes further into the flight. Someone with inside information of how these contacts are treated, please comment.

[Challenger]

You obviously have some direct knowledge of this concern. However on this flight, the pilot is Indonesian and the copilot is Western European. As you described the problem as being Asian non-captains who won't question the pilot, here we have a copilot who is French. Additionally, the reports online of last communication " when one of the pilots "asked to avoid clouds by turning left and going higher to 34,000 feet (10,360 meters)," Murjatmodjo said. It was last seen on radar at 6:16 a.m. and was gone a minute later" So it seems that the pilot was planning on avoiding, not flying into the storm. It is possible there was a storm larger than anticipated, but clearly the pilot, if this report is correct, attempted to NOT fly into the storm.

Is there any issue with senior pilots ignoring the warnings of other flight crew members or is it just that the non-pilots are culturally constrained from expressing their concerns to a senior officer? Or both?

Whatever the cause(s), we all share the hope that this aircraft is found and that there are survivors.

Edit: I think I should note that what I am seeing online is that the pilot asked for a change. I cannot find anywhere whether permission was given, denied, or even needed, or whether the request was for a change at the time of the contact or for a change say five minutes further into the flight. Someone with inside information of how these contacts are treated, please comment.

My origional response to the OP was made as an example of one of the possibilities in this case. Over the last 4 years there have been at least 4 or 5 crashes involving Asian airlines and at least two that I know of involved serious communications issues in the cockpit similar to those that I gave as an example. The most memorable was the Korean Airliner in LA that was on an approach path that was too low(pilot error). It hit the seawall.

We do not know what was the proximate cause of this tragedy and as I previously mentioned such incidents are usually the results of a series of events including flight crew decisions that determine the fate of the plane and passengers .