Mark Morse...BRAVO!!!!

[Rokinronda]

I have been watching the VHA meeting on VNN and impressed with the informatiion, insight and eloquence of a family member. Down to earth, witty and willing to work with us on important and frivolous issues. My opinion is a job more than well done! I believe the Morse family will continue to listen and do everything they can to make TV the best community in the world! BRAVO!!! :#1: :clap2: Maybe, just maybe with our input, the buffalo will be back in view. I believe the Morse family will consider options. AGAIN BRAVO! POA, >:( what a negative, nasty, greedy bunch. 7 million to a lawyer!!! WHY??!! SHAME ON YOU! 7 loudmouth complainers now sharing $350,000, I see a personal greed factor here. The POA continues to bad mouth. I, for one, am not looking at their bulletin any longer. AGAIN, MARK I am impressed and wish you, your family, and my fellow, content, happy Villagers a lifestyle I used to only dream about! You have made my personal dream a reality! JOB WELL DONE! Could the Morse family please consider a New Years Eve party under the stars? My only wish.

[Taltarzac]

Care to elaborate bit about the $7 million and other figures?? Have not watched VNN for a while.

[Rokinronda]

It was not mentioned at the meeting, but the class action suit against the developers by the POA was a matter that I feel was for personal gains. The attorney for the POA was paid $7,000,000. The 7 plaintiffs that brought the lawsuit were awarded $350,000. I would love to know if the lawyer was a relative or friend of a plaintiff. I would not be surprised if that was the case. I would also like to know the details of what and where the $40 million awarded will go??!! My short term memory is failing. The link to the settlement that was detailed in the Orlando Sentinal is no longer functioning! Sorry, Tal. I think this needs to be another topic, I just wanted this post to congratulate the DEVELOPER for a job well done! KUDOS TO THEIR VISION!! Please chime in with your thoughts and BRAVOS!.

[Rokinronda]

Come on people, lets show some appreciation here!!! :bigthumbsup:

[villages07]

Ronda,

I agree with you...I am watching it as I type this. He is doing a nice job....folksy, plain spoken, and does seem sincere about wanting the Villages to be a community we can all be proud of. He seems to have inherited his father's and grandfather's passion for TV.

For all others living in TV....VNN is doing a continuous broadcast of Mark Morse's talk to the VHA all weekend. So, carve out an hour (or so...) and watch it....it's well worth the time.

[graciegirl]

This is such good news to hear and especially from one whose judgement I have come to value. I am so glad to "know" you Rhonda!

[graciegirl]

Wish I could hear it up here in Ohio but two of my favorites have critiqued it for me. You go Mark Morse! :bigthumbsup:

[Beltlady]

Right on Rhona, I agree with everything you said. Hope we can resolve this buffalo issue fast. Was there anything in the paper about these litagations before they were awarded? Maybe Daily Sun and VNN should let us know, so we can get helpful action started eariler or before it's too late. Maybe more of us should go to the meetings. I did notice the Savanna Center was pretty filled.

[swrinfla]

:agree:

I'll add my praise. He does a good job, indeed.

This was the third year that I've gone to this particular VHA session at Savannah Center. It's the first one where Mark Morse spoke for more than an hour. It's the first one that I know of where one of the ballrooms was set up with a huge screen to accommodate the expected overflow. I was frankly more impressed this year than in others.

I just wish ther'd be some small opportunity for questions, but the logistics would be nightmarish!

SWR

[Frangyomory]

Mark Morse is just as phony as you can be. It took a class action suit for hiim to pony up on the millions of dollars of OUR amenities and to give them back to US! You can like him and give hiim all the atta boys you want but when it takes a law suit to get money back that is ours; it takes a law suit to fix sink holes; it almost takes a law suit to fix the vinyl siding in many homes, I am not going to give any atta boys!!!!

Mark Morse happens to be a charismatic speaker and the VHA folks are just like sheep following the dog. I happen to be a member of the VHA but am going to join the POA because FULL DISCLOSURE is an entitlement and not something we should have to sue to get.

The lawyers got what is routinely paid to lawyers in law suits, they got a specific percentage of the value of the suit. This DOES NOT make the POA greedy, etc. They simply saw a wrong and went about making it right in the only way they could because the developer would NOT give the money back that belong to the owners.

:edit: :edit:

[GERALDINE]

Mark Morse is just as phony as you can be. It took a class action suit for hiim to pony up on the millions of dollars of OUR amenities and to give them back to US! You can like him and give hiim all the atta boys you want but when it takes a law suit to get money back that is ours; it takes a law suit to fix sink holes; it almost takes a law suit to fix the vinyl siding in many homes, I am not going to give any atta boys!!!!

Mark Morse happens to be a charismatic speaker and the VHA folks are just like sheep following the dog. I happen to be a member of the VHA but am going to join the POA because FULL DISCLOSURE is an entitlement and not something we should have to sue to get.

The lawyers got what is routinely paid to lawyers in law suits, they got a specific percentage of the value of the suit. This DOES NOT make the POA greedy, etc. They simply saw a wrong and went about making it right in the only way they could because the developer would NOT give the money back that belong to the owners.

:edit: :edit:


As much as I hate to admit it...I think YOU are more right than wrong. I'd love to live in "La-La Land" and believe that the Morse family is here to take care of our every desire...but I know they worship a "golden idol" (money) and that's what they're here to get. There never would have been a siding issue if they had paid the money to hire the right/best contractors in the first place...

[bimmertl]

Put simply, Morse and the VCCD tried to pull a fast one and not live up to their contractual obligations to the residents of TV. The fact this matter had to be litigated was no doubt due to Morse and the VCCD at some point saying, if you don't like it sue us. Fortunately somebody called their bluff.

The resulting settlement was filed with the court and approved by a judge. All members of the "class" were given notice of the settlement prior to the court approval. The settlement and amounts awarded in fees to the plaintiff attorney and to the participating named plaintiffs were also court approved and in line with amounts typically awarded in multi million dollar settlements.

Withholding $40 million of our money and only "agreeing" to pay it after being sued is not doing a good job. You must be kidding.


http://www.thevillagesfl.us/classactionsettlement.htm

[Frangyomory]

jkp and bimmerti you have seen the true reason we got those amenities back. I still find it hard to understand how anyone can applaud Mark Morse, et al when we as residents have to threaten a law suit or actually file one, to get the developer/family to "do the right thing" and he has the audacity to complain about the bad publicity and the POA downtalking the family!!!!

[jadebox]

Three cheers for Mark Morse and family. They make a heck of a lot more sense then some of the people posting on here.
I would hate to live with the attitude of some. So sad to live that way.

[Rokinronda]

Fran, I have been away from the computer, enjoying life and just got back. Will you explain which amenities had been lost? What obligations were they not adhering to? I didn't think the ammenities fees were our monies to spend, but were for the upkeep. Did the Morse family cause the sinkholes? Could they have been predicted and could they have prevented them? I appreciate that our golf courses have acclaimed Audobon status. I have never heard anything but good about correcting siding problems. Maybe I drank too much kool-aid or have been brainwashed, but I do feel their lifestyle visions are commendable. ATTA BOY. Live and learn, I should not speak my mind. Criticism's will come forth. I am just a sheep following a dog. I will think twice before posting from now on. Don't expect me to go any further with this thread. This is why I stay out of political threads, also. Life is too short and I am enjoying every minute! :hot:

[gfmucci]

Mark Morse is just as phony as you can be.
Mark Morse happens to be a charismatic speaker and the ... folks are just like sheep following the dog.

Wow, the same can be said about Barack Obama! Amazing. The difference is that the Morse family is being productive and making a lot of people happy. And his words match his actions.

[aln]

I'll add my "atta boy" to the Morses' et al
.
Until there's more people moving OUT than moving IN, somebody's doing something right.
I don't think it's the POA or the people filing lawsuits because they were stupid enough to put their 'person' in harms way (buffalo) - go out on a golf course during a thunderstorm and raise your club in the air with metal spikes. Who ya gonna sue now!

Is Mark Morse a good speaker ?
Yes, probably better than George W Bush or Bill Clinton.

We still live in the best country in the world and a very VERY good community.

wav

[beady]

Someone made a comment about the Morse family worshiping the golden idol ...money.
I think they are a very clever family who formed a company to develop this area and made a grand success of it. They have earned every dollar they have made.
How can I respect an association that sued a company and then some of the members reaped extra financial benefits. We all won in that the money was set aside for the continuing up keep of our property. If the POA decided to initiate the suit then they took the risk as a group.The members in the group that handled the suit with the lawyers should not recieve compensation. Any money awarded should have been added to the final settlement to benefit the entire association The lawyers earned their money on both sides of this issue.

[jadebox]

Robkin stay!!!! We think alike. If others dislike how things are done here then why not leave. No one is making anyone stay BUT please do not come here and try to change things. I am living in LALA land, drinking the Kool aide and loving every minute of it. Well, I will if I can still see the buffalo. No need to feed--just see. :)

[rjrex]

jkp and bimmerti you have seen the true reason we got those amenities back. I still find it hard to understand how anyone can applaud Mark Morse, et al when we as residents have to threaten a law suit or actually file one, to get the developer/family to "do the right thing" and he has the audacity to complain about the bad publicity and the POA downtalking the family!!!!


Is it true that the beneficiaries of the lawsuit (other than lawyers) are current or former officers of the POA.... Wonder about that...Who do they serve.

[jadebox]

YES!!!

[Bucco]

ROKINRONDA......I can relate to your feelings. I said basicallythe same thing a month or so ago and am very hesitant to post anything positive on here about TV or to defend the family or developer. The response I got was something like...we know that folks monitor this board that are close to the developer...which is just plain crazy.

Listen, NOTHING is perfect but I cannot understand those who spend so much time listening to RUMORS, and almost all of the complaints are simple rumors OUT OF CONTEXT.

TV does a great job in an exploding community and I see nothing wrong with giving kdos when deserved. I certainly am not opposed to expressing concerns, but there are avenues to address them within TV. Seems if you dont hear what you want to hear the developer is at fault.

[JohnnyM]

This is from a prior post of mine concerning complaints about rolling the recycling charge of $1.47 into the trash charge and hiding it on purpose so the residents wouldn't notice and the Morse family was getting richer. GIVE ME A BREAK!

"I am so tired about hearing people bemoan the Morse family and how they are trying to pilfer every penny they can from the poor souls that bought homes here. It makes me feel bad about being a homeowner in TV. I don't want to feel bad about being a homeowner in TV I want to feel good and be happy and proud about it. We made the choice to move to TV and we will give every benefit of the doubt to TV unless things are proved to be otherwise. TV is paradise now and will be until the day I die. If you can't be a loyal homeowner, what's the sense of living here in the first place. I like the positives of TV".

I felt that way then and do now concerning this latest complaint. Think this way, Thank you God for letting me have another day on earth. Thank you God for letting me have another day on earth and in paradise. How can you go wrong with that kind of attitude.

Wake up and smell the coffee and flowers folks.

[jjdees]

Good post Johnny. The word profit has now morphed to greed. I guess the only reason for a business' existence is to do others a favor. I hope the family keeps up the good work. They've created something fantastic and not duplicated anywhere else.

[Frangyomory]

You folks just keep looking at the world through those rose colored glasses and don't worry about the $40million dollars of amentiy fees paid by residents and moved inappropriately by the developer...which was proven in court. I'll keep my eyes open and continue to read about BOTH sides of issues.

As for moving, no one ever said this wasn't a wonderful place to live and like no other. Simply said, the Morse family does not believe in full disclosure and neve will. The residents who give a rats behind will continue to threaten and/or file law suits to ensure the truth is known.

No, the developer/family didn't cause the sink holes but they did know from the examination of the land that they would likely occur then they tried to make the residents pay the cost that they KNEW was going to be incurred.

I won't bother telling you all the truth anymore. Evidently most of you are happy to sit in the sunshine with the rose colored glasses on while you smile all the way to the next happy hour.

[JohnnyM]

Ya know Frangyomory, what is wrong with that. At our age, or at least mine, I DON'T CARE WHO IS ZOOMING WHO. I DON'T CARE WHO GOT 40 MILLION. I just want to enjoy what few remaining years I have in total happiness. Why are you such an angry person. Live and let live. My amenity fees in NJ are $154.00 a month and we have nothing close to TV as far as living is concerned. At $130.00 a month I am well ahead of the game.

[nONIE]

I think you have us figured out Fran, and your point is???? :beer3:

[jadebox]

I love my rose colored glasses and happy hour!!! Everything here is not perfect but not bad enough to be so angry about it.

[Villages Kahuna]

As noted by Mark Morse in his speech to the VHA last week, 97% of the survey respondents rated The Villages as a great place to live! It was about the seventh year in a row that the results were 96-97% and about the 15th year in a row where satisfaction was well above 90% of those responding. Geez, something must be going right.

I'd guess that if the statisticians did their thing, that the "margin of error" would be awfully low. Why? Because 33% of all Villages homeowners participated in the survey. That's a huge response, almost unheard of by those taking such surveys.

So a few people can express their disatisfaction and distrust for the developer of this place. They have every right to be as grouchy and suspicious as they choose. But they are a tiny percentage of the people who live here. The huge majority of the people who live here couldn't be happier with Florida's Friendliest Hometown. Personally, I've placed our house on the "do not throw" list for delivery of the POA newspaper. I've got a lot better things to do with my time than waste it reading poorly written, unsubstantiated and heavily-slanted articles written by people unwilling to take responsibility for their writing by placing their byline on the articles.

By the way, does anyone really believe that the developer knew that sinkholes would occur and where...and then went ahead and built structures on that land? As noted in Mark Morse's speech, about 45% of The Villages is undeveloped--that is golf courses, nature preserves, wetlands, parks and open space. I guess I might ask whether it's a common sense suspicion that the developer knew where the sinkholes would occur and then went ahead and built something there anyway? That sure doesn't meet the "common sense" test as far as I'm concerned.

[barb1191]

Mark Morse is just as phony as you can be. It took a class action suit for hiim to pony up on the millions of dollars of OUR amenities and to give them back to US! You can like him and give hiim all the atta boys you want but when it takes a law suit to get money back that is ours; it takes a law suit to fix sink holes; it almost takes a law suit to fix the vinyl siding in many homes, I am not going to give any atta boys!!!!

Mark Morse happens to be a charismatic speaker and the VHA folks are just like sheep following the dog. I happen to be a member of the VHA but am going to join the POA because FULL DISCLOSURE is an entitlement and not something we should have to sue to get.

The lawyers got what is routinely paid to lawyers in law suits, they got a specific percentage of the value of the suit. This DOES NOT make the POA greedy, etc. They simply saw a wrong and went about making it right in the only way they could because the developer would NOT give the money back that belong to the owners.

:edit: :edit:

You got my vote, Fran. You are a true realist in that you realize the shortcomings of the Developer and yet profess to love living in TV. You support the POA (as do I) for their efforts to keep the scales balanced. I agree with you wholeheartedly and support your opnions. I certainly do not see you as a negative person because you can understand the problems and yet support the group willing to be the "whiners."

You get negative reactions in these forums to your beliefs and you hang in there and stand up for your convictions. You GO girl!!!! Don't let the barbs thrown by some get to you. You have never been disrespectful to any of the Members here on TOTV but certainly have done your homework and see both sides of the coin when it comes to this "paradise."

The "newbies" and "wannabes" can wear their rose-colored glasses during their early days here in TV and after a few years they may take an interest in the realities, as we have and see both sides. It's not a battle; it's merely living to standards one chooses.

barb1191

[chelsea24]

:clap2: :beer3: I agree wholeheartedly with Johnny, Ronda, Nonie, etc. Here's to the "rose colored glasses".

FYI, I've never been accused nor do I look at the world through rose colored glasses. I'm a realist. And here's what's real to me.

I am completely happy and content with my home. (I'm a bricklayer's kid and believe me I know it's well built!) When we moved in (6 mos. ago) and had to make any service calls, which is usual with new construction, not only did they call back right away, the repairs were practically done before I could hang up the phone.

The rec centers, pools, golf courses, country clubs, the list goes on and on, far exceed standards of other communities. (And we looked at quite a few.)

When I drive around, I see nothing but beauty. Everywhere I look, by any standards, The Villages is absolutely breathtaking. I keep wanting to pinch myself because I still can't believe what a glorious community this is and that I really live here.

In Illinois, we paid $175 a month in association fees and all we had was a retention pond that they called a lake.

As far as the people go, be they snowbirds or frogs, I've never ever come across such a wonderful, friendly, welcoming group in all of my life. It actually took me by surprise and warms my heart everyday.

When I wake up in the morning, I thank God that my husband and I are living here and the joy we feel is overwhelming.

As far as the Morse family goes, I think they are brilliant, creative people who deserve every penny they get. And I don't give out compliments easily. They have set up something here that staggers the mind. Is anyone or anything perfect? No. But, I have to say, The Villages is as perfect as you can get.

I come from an advertising background. I was a member of the "Gold Ring" at Ralston Purina. This is a group of creatives that would meet in St. Louis and brainstorm to create new product ideas. I'm telling you this, because I look at things with a critical eye. What can be presented in a better way? What can be improved? What can be added or subtracted to make this product close to perfect.

If there's something missing in The Villages -- I haven't found it. And believe me, I've been looking.

So BRAVO to the Morse family! :#1: May you all continue to improve this planet for generations to come.

[samhass]

Well said, Chels!!!!!!1 :agree: :bigthumbsup:

[handieman]

:pop:
Can ya feel da love?? lovehorse
Color me Happy
Handie :joke:

[Time for Tee]

:agree: :agree: We love "Happy Land"!! Really miss the beauty of TV when I drive around our home town of Bloomington. After the terrible winter there are many potholes and road repair to be done. More new schools to be built in our area because all of the new people moving in since we have two Universities and State Farm home headquarters.Our taxes are about as high as Chicago and continue to go up yearly to keep up with what a city has to do with 100,000 population.We return here because we want to be with friends and family and to come home to Il. is a very real balance for us and makes us appreciate what the Village is all about. It is not a surprise to have the fees increase yearly --take a look at everything else from eggs to bread to gas. Go with the flow and enjoy the minute!! The family is :#1: with us and they truly amaze us in their plans for the balance of the Villages. If they are able to make their fortune by building this Retirement Community I for one am happy for them. Hey, you can always move!! :'( :'(

[chelsea24]

1rnfl LOL Uncle Muncle, I love you! :a20:

[graciegirl]

Chelsea,

What a lovely articulate post!

[jadebox]

I love my rose colored glasses and happy hour!!! Everything here is not perfect but not bad enough to be so angry about it.

Not a newbie been here 7 years!!!!

[redwitch]

OK, I'm a newbie. I love TV. I love the people of TV. I love the landscaping, the golf carts, even the silly gates and especially the greeters. I have yet to drive around and not see somthing that makes me smile. I thank the Schwartz and Morse families from the bottom of my heart for giving me this.

That being said, I understand what Fran is saying. The Morse family is in this for the money. TV was not created out of the goodness of their hearts but to make a profit. I'm sure they were well aware that there was a risk of sinkholes considering that risk is true of about 99% of Florida. They did foul up on the amenities issue and a lawsuit was required to straighten that mess up. However, they did post a couple of articles about it in the Sun and acknowledged that had the POA not stepped to right a wrong, the wrong would have been continued. They didn't say, but did imply it was not deliberate but rather one of those things that just hadn't been well thought out. No one is perfect, not developers, not attorneys. Some things are overlooked -- that's one of the reasons there are lawsuits. Taking our beloved buffalo away is a tragedy. Understandable considering the stupidity of some but a tragedy nonetheless.

So, my view is three cheers to TV and TVers as a whole! Five cheers to Harold Schwartz for having the vision to create TV. Three cheers to the Morse family for continuing that vision. Zero cheers for the business side -- don't care how good, honest, etc. you try to be, it's still business and the greed factor does step in and make things less palatable than the average person wants it to be.

[villages07]

Chels,

Thanks for your honest, uplifting post that puts life here in TV back in perspective.

Sometimes folks can get mired in negatives and complaints and lose sight of all the good, beautiful, positive things surrounding them.

Yes, the family business is concerned with selling houses and making money, but, I still have to believe that there is also a lot of family pride about the community they have built and their legacy going forward.

[Beltlady]

I can see just fine through my rose colored glasses, thank you. Maybe Mark Morse is for making a lot of money, but isn't thats why you go into a business. This just happens to be a BIG one. Lots of money to be made, and while he's at it makes a lot of people happy. Maybe he has learned a lesson from the $40 million episode. I watch the HOA meeting on VNN and thought he was quiet sincere. He might not have apologised or confessed but don't forget he's a MAN.
Now let's get back to saving our buffalo. I really think we can change his mind when he sees all the petitions and letters.

[golfnut]

I would like to add my .02, I think Schwartz was a visionary and the Morse family has done a great job carrying on his legacy, of course they have to make money or they wouldn't be able to stay in business. This is a project of epic proportions and carries with it a lot of risk, when you assume a lot of risk you also typically reap a lot of benefit. But as many have already stated what a beautiful, upscale product this business continues to put out, actually I think they get better every year, which means they care enough about it to learn from their errors and adjust accordingly. As far as the POA goes yes they can be crude, loud and unpolished but the squeaky wheel gets the grease, I look at them as our squeaky wheel. That's my take on all this, I'll have the grape kool-aid today thank you. Now Rhonda you've been around long enough to know that every issue will attract negative as well as positive comments so I suggest you stick to your guns and don't worry about those who may not agree with you.

Now does anyone remember where the post is that was an article written by one of the Morse family members that talked about the settlement and how it came to be??..GN

[gfmucci]

Zero cheers for the business side -- don't care how good, honest, etc. you try to be, it's still business and the greed factor does step in and make things less palatable than the average person wants it to be.
So, Red, the other options are what:* A magical Theocracy, another government socialist program, or "evil" business which enables people to*earn a living providing products or services people want?

[Indy-Guy]

PROFIT IS ONLY A DIRTY WORD WHEN THE OTHER GUY IS GETTING IT!
BUT WHEN YOU ARE GETTING IT THAT IS A GREAT THING

I would think that anyone who lives in The Villages must of worked for a company that made a profit or how can we afford to live in such a great place.

Or perhaps my neighbors are bank robbers.

BRAVO to the Morse family keep making a good profit and thanks for putting a part of that profit back into our community.

[JohnM]

Has anyone run across a complete transcript of the Mark Morse speech? I saw the summary in the Sun and as I am out of town I cannot watch the VNN broadcasts this weekend.

TIA

John

[DennisStGermain]

Yes, I have watched it a couple of times now ....BUT.... I don't think he should openly compare and criticize another publication simple because he disagrees with it.

Freedom of the press and all that stuff guaranteed by the Constitution, you know.

It goes with the territory. Take your lumps and let it go. Seems like he will just add fuel to the fire if he responds and compares the POA paper with the Daily Sun.

If the courts awarded the money then there must have been some credible evidence proved.

Besides, if I had half his money I couldn't care less about the negative press, right or wrong.

There will always be people who complain and disagree with what you are trying to do.

Dennis

[chelsea24]

Besides, if I had half his money I couldn't care less about the negative press, right or wrong.


Dennis


I think you would care Dennis, if you believed in your product. And I believe the Morse family believes in and are devoted to their product. When you create something, it's much like your child. You correct it, you try to make it the best it can be, and you fiercely defend it.

Again, BRAVO, to the Morse family. They deserve every penny they get! :#1:

[gfmucci]

And Morse's criticism of the latest book on the villages was equally justified. As was discussed ad nauseum in here, the Leasureville book was a grossly slanted compilation of lies, mistakes, and the author's bias. Morse has a right, if not a duty, to defend his brand from these slanders.
I missed Morse's reference to "Leisureville." Was that in the newspaper coverage? What did he say about it?

[villages07]

GF...

It was in the VNN rebroadcast...not the written summary. He did not mention the book by title, only referring to it as 'the latest book about the Villages...' As I recall, he lambasted the premise of the book that seniors go to communities like TV to check out of society. Morse made comments about TV residents being 'on the grid' staying engaged in society, charity, etc. It was a pretty brief reference and might have been in the context of 'we have our critics, but...'

[bimmertl]

I think you would care Dennis, if you believed in your product. And I believe the Morse family believes in and are devoted to their product. When you create something, it's much like your child. You correct it, you try to make it the best it can be, and you fiercely defend it.

Again, BRAVO, to the Morse family. They deserve every penny they get! :#1:


How about we all agree that the developer/Morse family deserve every penny they get as long as they abide to all the terms and conditions of legally written contracts between themselves and the residents.

The fact they coughed up $47 million and change after being sued is indicative of the fact they were trying to get every penny they deserve, and plenty of "pennies" they didn't deserve!

[chuckster]

As an articulate contributor mentioned eons ago, "There are always choices" :) :)

Right on developers, continue to make money and develop our home town.

[The Great Fumar]

CHELS
You smooth talker,........I think your oratory was outstanding.......I was very impressed.......

not easily impressed fumar... :read: :read: :bigthumbsup:

[redwitch]

So, Red, the other options are what: A magical Theocracy, another government socialist program, or "evil" business which enables people toearn a living providing products or services people want?


If you're going to quote me, I'd suggest you try to not twist my words. Believe it or not, I'm not a socialist. I firmly believe business is a good thing and anything else is a disaster waiting to happen. Like anything else, business has its good side and its bad side. Anyone who only sees one side of a coin misses a lot.

Quite simply, business is business. There is an inherent greed factor, it is neither good nor evil. It just is. I don't think I said business was bad. I simply said the average person doesn't like it (unless, of course, it is their business). I've consistently said that the Morse family deserves their money -- they've worked hard for it and I, personally, don't begrudge them one red cent. I don't like all of their policies but, then, that goes back to the greed factor and is a given.

And, Muncle, maybe Chels is right more often than you think. ;)

[Frangyomory]

bimmerti couldn't agree more. Harold Schwartz' concept and his son, Gary Morse's ability to get the job done are certainly worthy of being paid for a job well done. They are entitled to every penny they LEGALLY earn.

My only complaint is that they only seem to correct things when they are sued or there is a threat to sue and that is simply not only wrong but it is BAD business.

Fortunately before the grandchildren (Mark Morse) took over, the best place in this universe was already being built and we are all so lucky to live here.

All I want and feel I am entitled to is FULL DISCLOSURE. Northing more and nothing less. I don't like getting hit with hidden costs and issues after moving into my wonderful home.

We are here three years and are frogs..here until we croak. You can't find a community like this anywhere but that doesn't mean that Mark and his sisters can do whatever they want until they get caught.

That's my last comment on the subject since so many of you just don't want to know both sides of the issue.

[tom]

There is a lot of misinterpretation about the agreement to put 40 mil into the cdds that wasn't put there in when the cdds took over the administration of the various areas after the developer completed each phase. This money should have been there so that each cdd would be able to administrate and repair and take care of the every day needs of their district. It was not. Although the class members who sued and the other people involved (the developer, the attorneys) agreed to a confidential settlement it was quite clear from the article in the Sentinel that something was amiss. As a thirty year court officer I never saw a settlement reached (especially one of this magnitude) unless the defendant felt he could lose. Which means the case had merit. I wonder if the developer was reluctant to open his books in court? I also wonder if he were anyone else without a strong prescence in the republican party if the Florida Attorney General would be looking at this matter to see if the irregularities were more than civil?

I too enjoy my life here inTV but I reserve My Right to question things and get a satisfactory answer just as the suitors did.

There is just too much control of information by the developer. only things that favor the developer and those he endorses appear in The Sun or on Vnn. While I agree that the POA can be very acrimonious they are not that wrong. The siding issue is valid and try spending seven hours at the hospital without being seen.

[mcelheny]

Tom,
:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

[Frangyomory]

....and you won't find a word about the less than full disclosure here in the Villages in any other paper because the "outside" world could care less, so don't be telling people to watch other television stations and read other newspapers expecting the stuff around here to be published there. Who do you think you are kidding anyway? Your the same person who says...well you have a choice!!! Yes, and we all moved here because we love this place IN SPITE OF THE GRANDCHILDREN and how they run the business that their father and grandfather ran so well and so honestly! :edit:

[chuckster]

I'm positive I read that you said there were to be no more comments regarding this issue as we didn't see your (sorry) both sides of the issue regarding the "family". :) :)

[barb1191]

I'm positive I read that you said there were to be no more comments regarding this issue as we didn't see your (sorry) both sides of the issue regarding the "family". :) :)


Chuck...How profound of you!! You are absolutely correct, that's what the gal said. Feel better now?

Atta gal Fran....you GO girl!!

[barb1191]

Brilliant deduction there, Frannie. First of all, it's a private company so why the heck should they make any type of financial disclosure to you or some hack writer. Now as to whether other news outlets report on happenings in TV --- Let see, last weekend's big expose' about VNN was in the Orlando Sentinel. Right before that, the Sentinel and at least one Orlando TV station had features on Leisureville. Don't know who else covered that one, but we know the Wall Street Journal did. Everybody carried article about the lawsuit, including the St. Pete's Times and Tampa papers. The Ocala and Leesburg papers regularly carry articles about a variety of Villages issues. Unfortunately, the NY Times does not cover nonresidents using the family pools nor does CBS Nightly News do stories the use of amenity fees. Y'all had your PAO paper with the Reporter, but that went the way of left wing talk radio. Maybe 4 or 5 of you can get a class action suit and force Morse to fund a newspaper, radio, and TV station to spread your version of the news. Friendly advice --- try to be one of the ring leaders. It pays pretty well.

So, have a nice day now, ya hear, and remember, you do have a choice.



.......and, I bet you voted for George W Bush (both times), eh? Your writing reminds me of him. :dontknow:

[Boomer]

This thread seems like it might be a good place to ask this question. I guess I will find out.

There has been a lot of discussion about TV as a company. You know, in business to make money. And that seems to bring great joy in the land. And that's just fine. But it raises a question in my mind.

I think about business sometimes. I don't know why I do that, but I do. And since I discovered TV and began watching the build out projections wax and wane, wane and wax, I have thought about where it could all be heading.

Now, this may seem totally off the wall, and you may just dismiss it as, "WhatinthehellisBoomertalkingabout?" But I still have to ask.

Do you think there could come a time when TV could go from privately held to publically held? Stockholders and all that entails.

As I understand it, the developer sells pieces of the operation as things move along. Properties. But what about going public and selling shares? Could it happen? I wonder how that would work. You know, the care and feeding of stockholders.

Boomer

[JohnnyM]

Boy, I have been following this thread and have even been drawn in a couple of times to voice my opinion (everyone has one, like it or not) but we are now getting rude and obnoxious. I think we should bring down the tenor of the posts on this thread and make our point of view without sounding all the bells and whistles. We are grownups are we not. Geeez ???

[Betty Mary]

Agree with the Bravos!
Just wish I knew what Fran thought she was supposed to get that she has not received?
What has she not gotten for her Amenity Fee? Can't she go to a Rec Center for over a thousand activities? Can't she play golf? Etc., Etc.....
Besides, the Developer, as I understand it, does not provide these services... the Districts do. So what aren't they providing to her? I think she is confused. Or maybe I am - I did not know the Developer was responsible for people being happy....just providing a community where they can be! It is up to each person to choose for themselves.
It is so good to hear so many of us have made a great choice !
Have a BEAUTIFUL DAY IN THE VILLAGES!
PS...do so many people not realize that settling law suits are most often business decisions and are not indicative of guilt or innocence?

[chelsea24]

Very nice post Betty Mary! :bigthumbsup:

[chelsea24]

1rnfl Muncle! I love that "a half vast job". You nut! :bigthumbsup:

[Cajungirl]

Can someone tell me what "drinking cool aid means"...all Cajuns drink is beer. Having grown up a little Cajun girl who went to school with no shoes on until 8th grade, who only spoke French until first grade, and grew up in a home where 9 kids slept in the same bedroom in three double beds among us, I, too, feel as though I'm in a GREAT PLACE and I, too, thank God every day for my good health, my husband's good health, and my small, beautiful home with WONDERFUL neighbors. While I was teaching school, I was always the advocate fighting for some cause or another. I felt nothing was ever done right!! I was always fighting for a cause for everyone. I have learned a long time ago to lighten up. Too little time left with too much to enjoy! That's my opinion and it ought to be yours.

[graciegirl]

If you're going to quote me, I'd suggest you try to not twist my words. Believe it or not, I'm not a socialist. I firmly believe business is a good thing and anything else is a disaster waiting to happen. Like anything else, business has its good side and its bad side. Anyone who only sees one side of a coin misses a lot.

Quite simply, business is business. There is an inherent greed factor, it is neither good nor evil. It just is. I don't think I said business was bad. I simply said the average person doesn't like it (unless, of course, it is their business). I've consistently said that the Morse family deserves their money -- they've worked hard for it and I, personally, don't begrudge them one red cent. I don't like all of their policies but, then, that goes back to the greed factor and is a given.

And, Muncle, maybe Chels is right more often than you think. ;)





I absolutely agree. I hate when GF zeroes in on one point and doesn't reread it all. He is sharp as a tack,and a very good writer, but like many of us, we get all excited about the topics and start typing.

Don't get excited GF. I just love Redwitch and she is my friend and I won't soon forget all of her early kindnesses to me when I posted a topic called "What do you know about the developers, I haven't heard much good".

And before everyone jumps on me, this was pure ignorance on my part, fueled by half truths from my friends who did not want us to move to TV. I have since been enlightened and we bought a house last month.

and MUNCLE, CHELSEA is usually right. (You must be talking about politics, I only went to that forum once, I realized I couldn't handle it)

[Boomer]

Can someone tell me what "drinking cool aid means"...


Good morning Cajungirl,

The expression "drinking the Kool-aid" refers to the Jonestown Massacre of 1978 in Guyana. It was a mass suicide of more than 900 members of Jonestown, a whacked out cult. (I think "whacked out cult" may be a bit redundant.)

Anyway, Jim Jones was a seriously major American whackjob. Jones was born in a lovely Indiana town. Those who knew him deemed him strange from day-one almost. When he grew up, his obsessions and need for control drove him to become a cult leader. And away they all went to Guyana. I think the cult was called The People's Temple. But it is usually referred to as Jonestown.

Anyway, the cultists gave up all original thought, as cultists are wont to do. Finally Jones led the cultists to the ultimate expression of whackjobness when they committed mass suicide under his direction. Jones told them to drink Kool-Aid with cyanide in it. (I have heard the Kool-Aid was grape. I have also heard it was the red stuff. Don't know.)

It was an absolute horror. Not to mention the effect on that beloved smiling Kool-Aid pitcher that we have all known since childhood.

So anyway, that's the tragic tale of the reference point for the allusion "drinking the Kool-Aid."

The use of the expression in our language now means to completely embrace an idea or philosophy, refusing to see anything even remotely negative.

There has been somewhat of an evolution of the expression "drinking the Kool-Aid" in that it has been watered down quite a bit. Now when people say it about themselves, it can sometimes mean something closer to "Don't worry. Be happy." Or in some cases maybe it means, "Pick Your Poison." Answers will vary.

So that is Boomer's storytime for today.

Boomer

[BUC]

I really enjoy Frannie's post ,but she always seems to be negative, I'm glad I don't have to live that way. She seems to be very unhappy with her live. I do feel sorry for her. I'm happier than I deserve to be, and I'm still 2 /3 years from moving to the TV, Just think how happy I'll be then!

[chuckinca]

Boomer:

Drinking TV Kool-Aid has nothing to do with Jonestown!

There is a standing joke in TV that the people are so happy because they drink Kool-Aid (or water or whatever) spiked by the developer. It is also referred to as the Stepford Grannies effect (a reference to the Stepford Wives movie where all the wives were happy as can be but had their brains adjusted by the even Happier Hubbies).

[chelsea24]

Buc, just a small point off topic :cop: No one is happier than they deserve to be. We all deserve to be happy! So, IMHO, smile peeps! We, who are sublimely happy in TV (or anywhere for that matter) deserve it! ;D

[Boomer]

Boomer:

Drinking TV Kool-Aid has nothing to do with Jonestown!

There is a standing joke in TV that the people are so happy because they drink Kool-Aid spiked by the developer. It is also referred to as the Stepford Grannies effect (a reference to the Stepford Wives movie where all the wives were happy as can be but had their brains adjusted by the even Happier Hubbies)


Hey Chuck,

I was just telling my little story to explain the root of the allusion. The very last part of my storytime post pretty well summed up what the expression means to people who live in TV. It is mostly the "Don't worry. Be Happy" thing so it seems. But there are some who see it from the different perspective of "Pick Your Poison." Those are the ones who may see some issues, but they know nothing is perfect and they like living in TV.

And both those perspectives are fine with me. Along with any other perspective anyone wants to present.

I have heard a lot of people say, "Drinking the water" which does not carry the connotation of the Kool-Aid. (And they do have those bottles of water in the squares and they are clearly labeled "The Villages" so that looks like full disclosure to me.)

And I think what you are saying may be more along the lines of "landing face down in the punchbowl" which takes it a step beyond just drinking the water and carries a rather frolicsome connotation. So that could be a good thing.

But as far as my little story goes, it had to do with how the expression entered our language. Here's a link:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=drink+the+kool-aid

(Oh and Chuck, I know you know about Jonestown/Kool-Aid and that you did not need the link to explain it. I just put it in here anyway.)

BUT WAIT! YOU'RE CHUCK. You are the one who answered my questions in the thread about the historic side. That was when I was trying to find the swimming pool where they play "Name That Tune." That was you. Do you think they might have any discussions there of word connotations and allusions? That would be so great. My kind of place.

So anyway, Chuck. Thanks for your take on all of this. I know what you mean.

Oh, and I do tend to do my little storytimes around here. I have one on the back burner about Johnny Marzetti for another thread one of these days.

But for now, I must be off.

Boomer

[redwitch]

I lost a couple of friends in Jonestown. Most of those who lived in the Bay Area at the very least knew someone who was a member of the Temple and who died in Guyana. That being said, I'm with you Boomer -- the phrase did in fact start with the drinking of the poisoned Kool-Aid in Jonestown. It has taken on a much bigger meaning, as you well explained. As you stated, the meaning today has come down to "completely embracing an idea or philosophy, refusing to see anything even remotely negative." However, the history of why we say we drank the Kool-Aid is spot on.

[graciegirl]

Oh, and I do tend to do my little storytimes around here. I have one on the back burner about Johnny Marzetti for another thread one of these days.

But for now, I must be off.

Boomer



[/quote]




If I could just get the danged quotes thing to work.

Boom. You are not off.

Chuck, she is right about the Kool-Aid and Jonestown.

Boomer, Cincinnati Breath,....I wanna hear the story about Johnny Marzetti!!!

Please Please!!! :o

Your dear friend who just made a bajillion pounds of Johnny Marzetti for my granddaughters graduation party.

GracieGirl

[Floridagal]

No matter where you live, you can't make everyone happy. There will always be +'s and -'s.

I love living here and take the good with the bad. Most of it is good. I always tell people who complain all the time about TV, move. No one is tied here.

[Frangyomory]

Muncie you aare far too nasty and seem to enjoy taking personal shots at me.
I never said I didn't love the Villages. I love it here. I simply said that when we bought the sales reps did not disclose everything we should have known BEFORE we closed.

I cannot believe the personal shots that have continued at me just because I don't trust the developer. I have been told I have a choice, in other words I can move; I have been told to move; I have been called to task because it was presumed that I thought that network television and the NY Tiimes should be covering the Villages.

Well, all you have done is convinced me that you have the minds of 5th graders when sticks and stone could hurt our bones but words will never hurt me. You are childish and you can't take it when someone disagrees with you.

Shame on you, any of you who have joined in on the personal attacks at me because I don't love the Morse family. Shame on you all. :edit:

[chuckinca]

Can someone tell me what "drinking cool aid means"...all Cajuns drink is beer. Having grown up a little Cajun girl who went to school with no shoes on until 8th grade, who only spoke French until first grade, and grew up in a home where 9 kids slept in the same bedroom in three double beds among us, I, too, feel as though I'm in a GREAT PLACE and I, too, thank God every day for my good health, my husband's good health, and my small, beautiful home with WONDERFUL neighbors. While I was teaching school, I was always the advocate fighting for some cause or another. I felt nothing was ever done right!! I was always fighting for a cause for everyone. I have learned a long time ago to lighten up. Too little time left with too much to enjoy! That's my opinion and it ought to be yours.



Drinking Kool-Aid according to Boomer relates to Jonestown

Drinking TV Kool-Aid relates to the joke around TV that the developer spikes the drinks to make everyone happy and buy his houses.

[mcelheny]

Frangyomory,
Muncle has no other life. I agree wih you. Sorry you went through this but know most are very nice people.

[redwitch]

Fran, one thing to remember about online is that people are not always what they seem. I vaguely remember Muncle at one of the Crispers' get togethers. Sadly, he hasn't come since. He was fun, charming, a good guy to meet and know. The other thing is to take what you want and leave the rest.

I'm like you -- I'm not a big fan of the developer. I don't begrudge them the money they have made, I just don't like how much they really do own and the secretiveness of some of that ownership (Citizens Bank, all of the TV beauty salons and barbershops, etc.). I will always appreciate the concept of Harold Schwartz, the implementation of that concept by Gary Morse and the continuation of TV by Mark Morse, et al. I don't have to like everything about them, just like I don't have to like everything about my neighbors, my best friend or anyone else.

I've met you briefly and hope to meet you again for a longer period the next time. From what I could tell, you, too, are charming -- at least everyone at your table was laughing and having a good time. Some of your posts do come across as negative but I'd guess that is more because we can't see your face or body language is you type. However, I also know you do love The Villages and you couldn't imagine wanting to live elsewhere. So, ignore those who don't understand you and enjoy the good here.

[JohnnyM]

Frangyomory, why must you end your sentence with a curse word or words? Unless :edit: means something other than curse words. And who is the you all? All of TOTV? Can you explain some of your over the top anger?

[Frangyomory]

Johnny, read this entire thread and you will see to whom I am addressing my last message. By the way, the "censored" at the end of my messages is just to indicate that I am angry but trying not to show it. If it is taken as a curse word, sorry, but I don't use that kind of language. I obviously have misinterpreted the little icon.

Muncie in particular is a problem child and you will see who follows his lead if you read this thread.

I am finished commenting on this particular thread. You see I have to say it this way or Muncie will ask why I haven't gone away. :dontknow:

[renielarson]

Stop it! This is ridiculous Fran and Muncle. Chill.

[nONIE]

Bright,

your beginning to sound just like a schoolteacher! LOL!

This too shall pass ::)

[Rokinronda]

I said I was not going to post here, but after reading tonight I decided that I opened this can of worms and am NOW shutting it. Name calling, angry words, nastiness, and the such MUST STOP. Fran, I am so sorry you have been hurt. This is a place for adult discussion. and I WANT THIS TOPIC TO END RIGHT NOW!!! PEACE!!

[renielarson]

Nonie

If only I would count how many times a day I use that word...CHILL! 1rnfl

[Cajungirl]

Thanks BeBack for the reply on Kool Aid. Now I know the rest of the story. I remember the Jones incident and the Kool Aid but never put it together. Glad I asked the question.
Take care