Islamic official cancels restaurant inspections

[blueash]

In an upper Midwestern state there is a large community of Muslims who managed to get a co-religionist appointed as the local head of the health department. It turns out that restaurant inspections have always been done by the head of the health department, but also have been available from the state office. This new department head who began his appointment on Jan 1st has just announced that his office will no longer do restaurant inspections as he believes his religion forbids him from handling pork and other non-halal foods. He says the public will not be inconvenienced because the state is still going to be doing inspections. Do you think he should quit his job or at least put aside his religion when he is there to provide services to the public in a manner which every previous person did who held that position? It is also going to cost his community money as there was a charge collected for each inspection which the government will no longer be collecting as it is not doing the inspection.

[DonH57]

Sadly it's no different than the rest of officials who take office and then decide they aren't gonna do what was asked of them to take the job.

[Jimturner]

It breaks my heart to say this, but I do not believe any non Christian religion will do anything but harm the way of life in the United States. I would vote for Christian or Atheist, but no other religious laws should be respected by our judicial system.

[dbussone]

It breaks my heart to say this, but I do not believe any non Christian religion will do anything but harm the way of life in the United States. I would vote for Christian or Atheist, but no other religious laws should be respected by our judicial system.


We were founded on Judeo-Christian principals. I think you forgot to include the "Judeo" part. On the other hand I'm not aware of any atheists among the founders.

[chuckinca]

:agree: :agree: :agree:

[Jimturner]

We were founded on Judeo-Christian principals. I think you forgot to include the "Judeo" part. On the other hand I'm not aware of any atheists among the founders.

Sorry, but more of our founding fathers were Atheist than Christian.

Religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers (http://jeromekahn123.tripod.com/thinkersonreligion/id9.html)

[billethkid]

and in this day and age who would believe the powers that be did not know about this situation.

I do not care what his race or religion but if he is not able to carry out the duties of the job as established then he should be dismissed.

And of course all the linguine spined, let's not offend anybody managers will most likely go along with it .....than risk offending someone........which is exactly the root cause of much of America's problems........no responsibility....no accountability....no enforcement!!

If anybody can't or won't do the job.....no excuses...out the door!! Make room for someone capable and able.

[dbussone]

Sorry, but more of our founding fathers were Atheist than Christian.

Religious beliefs of the Founding Fathers (http://jeromekahn123.tripod.com/thinkersonreligion/id9.html)

Our founding PRINCIPALS were Judeo-Christian, and you still omitted the Judeo part. I'll have to do some more review on your source since I it appears to be a little specious at first glance.

[dbussone]

Ah, now I get it. The Council on Secular Humanism is the source. http://www.secularhumanism.org/fi/

[dbussone]

Here's a different view. http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/ffnc/

Here's part of what this article says:

"Secular arrogance in believing that anyone who believes in God is somehow a backward, country bumpkin is a big part of their elitist mentality. As the article continues,

...most of the Founders were Deists and Unitarians who rejected doctrines like the Incarnation. Thomas Jefferson dismissed the Trinity as "incomprehensible jargon." He and other Founders made no mention of God in the Constitution, and took pains not to establish an official church on US soil. And yet, as various scholars have noted, disestablishment grew out of respect, not disdain, for religion, which, James Madison observed, "flourishes in greater purity without [rather] than with the aid of government." He was right...falling church membership stirred much excited talk about the so-called "death of God." Somebody forgot to inform the American people, an overwhelming majority of whom told pollsters they were believers..."

[Jimturner]

I want to express my respect for all religions, but not for the US. I am sure Muslims are wonderful people, and should I decide I also wish to live under Islamic laws, I will move to an Islamic country, but please I caution all to be careful when any religious laws other than those enacted by our Atheist/Christian founders are allowed to override what we have practiced for over 200 years. I would suggest some research into sharia law before opening your arms to embrace it.

[manaboutown]

He should be fired for being unwilling to do his job.

[frankerickayeger]

In an upper Midwestern state there is a large community of Muslims who managed to get a co-religionist appointed as the local head of the health department. It turns out that restaurant inspections have always been done by the head of the health department, but also have been available from the state office. This new department head who began his appointment on Jan 1st has just announced that his office will no longer do restaurant inspections as he believes his religion forbids him from handling pork and other non-halal foods. He says the public will not be inconvenienced because the state is still going to be doing inspections. Do you think he should quit his job or at least put aside his religion when he is there to provide services to the public in a manner which every previous person did who held that position? It is also going to cost his community money as there was a charge collected for each inspection which the government will no longer be collecting as it is not doing the inspection.

I think he should quit his job or move out from U.S.A

[Jimturner]

I think he should quit his job or move out from U.S.A

I love the fact that you used your first post to support Christian values over Muslem laws and values. If Americans allow any other religion to pervert the laws of the United States as established by Christians and Atheists that made up our founding fathers, you may as well say goodbye to our way of life. Please, think twice and vote once.

[bimmertl]

This would be something that wouldn't be ignored by the media. Let's have a link to an article somewhere that tells the story. Can't find anything close on Google.

[dbussone]

This would be something that wouldn't be ignored by the media. Let's have a link to an article somewhere that tells the story. Can't find anything close on Google.

Bimmertl - what post are you responding to?

[Rags123]

In an upper Midwestern state there is a large community of Muslims who managed to get a co-religionist appointed as the local head of the health department. It turns out that restaurant inspections have always been done by the head of the health department, but also have been available from the state office. This new department head who began his appointment on Jan 1st has just announced that his office will no longer do restaurant inspections as he believes his religion forbids him from handling pork and other non-halal foods. He says the public will not be inconvenienced because the state is still going to be doing inspections. Do you think he should quit his job or at least put aside his religion when he is there to provide services to the public in a manner which every previous person did who held that position? It is also going to cost his community money as there was a charge collected for each inspection which the government will no longer be collecting as it is not doing the inspection.

Could you please supply a link to this story so that I may read the entire story in context.

I have searched and cannot find any record of this story anywhere.

[bimmertl]

Bimmertl - what post are you responding to?

Looking for story backing up OP's allegations. Same as Rags 123 post.

Sorry I wasn't specific considering the other issues brought up.

[rubicon]

In an upper Midwestern state there is a large community of Muslims who managed to get a co-religionist appointed as the local head of the health department. It turns out that restaurant inspections have always been done by the head of the health department, but also have been available from the state office. This new department head who began his appointment on Jan 1st has just announced that his office will no longer do restaurant inspections as he believes his religion forbids him from handling pork and other non-halal foods. He says the public will not be inconvenienced because the state is still going to be doing inspections. Do you think he should quit his job or at least put aside his religion when he is there to provide services to the public in a manner which every previous person did who held that position? It is also going to cost his community money as there was a charge collected for each inspection which the government will no longer be collecting as it is not doing the inspection.

I'll venture a good guess that the state you reference is Minnesota. I moved down from Minneapolis area and it contains one of the largest Somalia communities in the country. Clerks at grocery stores refuse to checkout customers who have purchased pork.. Taxi cab drivers refuse passenger who deplane with alcohol purchases abroad.

had taken up so many customer parking spots in the area businessmen hire. This community gather outside in downtown Minneapolis that businessmen got permission from the police department to hire tow truck operators to tow their cars away.

They have shown an outright disdain for Americans filed countless lawsuits of no merit. They have no intentions of assimilation and many have left Minneapolis to join the jihad fight.

On the other hand Minnesota also has the largest Hmong population in America and they have assimilated and contributed to their communities as other nationalities, etc.

[Challenger]

We were founded on Judeo-Christian principals. I think you forgot to include the "Judeo" part. On the other hand I'm not aware of any atheists among the founders.

If you research the "religions" of the founders carefully you might be quite surprised. Start with Thomas Jefferson.

[dbussone]

If you research the "religions" of the founders carefully you might be quite surprised. Start with Thomas Jefferson.

I have. Did you read the article that I linked to...the whole article. Most of the Founders were Unitarians or Deists.

"Thomas Jefferson, third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac" and wrote:
The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ leveled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."
From:
Thomas Jefferson, an Intimate History by Fawn M. Brodie, p. 453 (1974, W.W) Norton and Co. Inc. New York, NY) Quoting a letter by TJ to Alexander Smyth Jan 17, 1825, and Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 246 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to John Adams, July 5, 1814.

Thomas Jefferson held most clergy and organized religion in low regard not so much for theology, but for abuse of power and attacks on liberty. Jefferson identified himself as a Unitarian, not a Deist as such. But I have demonstrated that Deism as understood in America was drawn from Christianity, often a rejection of Calvinism. But what did Jefferson say on Jesus?

Jefferson was always reluctant to reveal his religious beliefs to the public...He was raised as an Anglican, but was influenced by English deists. "Question with boldness even the existence of God; because if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." In Query XVII of in the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom: "The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg . . . . Reason and free inquiry are the only effectual agents against error."

His ideas are nowhere better expressed than in his compilations of extracts from the New Testament "The Philosophy of Jesus" (1804) and "The Life and Morals of Jesus" (1819-20?)...Jefferson believed in the existence of a Supreme Being who was the creator and sustainer of the universe and the ultimate ground of being, but this was not the triune deity of orthodox Christianity. He also rejected the idea of the divinity of Christ, but as he writes to William Short on October 31, 1819, he was convinced that the fragmentary teachings of Jesus constituted the "outlines of a system of the most sublime morality which has ever fallen from the lips of man." In correspondence, he sometimes expressed confidence that the whole country would be Unitarian, but he recognized the novelty of his own religious beliefs. On June 25, 1819, he wrote to Ezra Stiles, "I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know." Rebecca Bowman, Monticello Research Department, August 1997. Ref. http://www.monticello.org/reports/interests/religion.html"

Note that references have been included!

[graciegirl]

Blueash, is the unnamed place Dearborn, Michigan? I can't find this story anywhere.

Dearborn, Michigan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dearborn,_Michigan)

[CFrance]

He should be fired for being unwilling to do his job.
That I agree with... the accusation that any religion other than the Christian religion will ruin the USA I don't.

[graciegirl]

,,,,

[KittyKat]

Blueash, is the unnamed place Dearborn, Michigan? I can't find this story anywhere.

Dearborn, Michigan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dearborn,_Michigan)

That's what I was thinking. My Mom's family lives in Michigan, starting out in Dearborn and spreading out but one of my Uncle's family still lives near there and their son teaches in Detroit. They LOVE the Muslims and Obama. We should be very afraid for our children and grandchildren, etc if Sharia Law is allowed. This man was elected, wasn't he? If not then why in the world apply for a job that would entail conflicts with his religion?

As the previous poster said about Minneapolis, the Mong population assimilated into the community. If Muslims don't like our laws then why move here? To take over our country since theirs are always in conflict?

[blueash]

In an upper Midwestern state there is a large community of Muslims who managed to get a co-religionist appointed as the local head of the health department. It turns out that restaurant inspections have always been done by the head of the health department, but also have been available from the state office. This new department head who began his appointment on Jan 1st has just announced that his office will no longer do restaurant inspections as he believes his religion forbids him from handling pork and other non-halal foods. He says the public will not be inconvenienced because the state is still going to be doing inspections. Do you think he should quit his job or at least put aside his religion when he is there to provide services to the public in a manner which every previous person did who held that position? It is also going to cost his community money as there was a charge collected for each inspection which the government will no longer be collecting as it is not doing the inspection.


Typing errors corrected:


In Florida there is a large community of Christians who managed to get a co-religionist elected as the County Court Clerk. It turns out that court weddingshave always been done by the Court Clerk, but also have been available from outside officiants . This public official who is required by the Constitution not to discriminate in his office has just announced that his office will no longer do weddings as he believes his religion forbids him from marrying all eligible persons. He says the public will not be inconvenienced because somebody else is still going to be doing weddings. Do you think he should quit his job or at least put aside his religion when he is there to provide services to the public in a manner which every previous person did who held that position? It is also going to cost his community money as there was a charge collected for each inspection which the government will no longer be collecting as it is not doing the inspection.

I appreciate the calls for the removal from office of this person who felt his religious opinion trumped the job to which he was elected. I did need to edit the original post a bit, as I made some typing errors.

For those who wanted links:
Some clerks ax nuptials so they won't have to marry gays (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/01/02/same-sex-marriage-florida/21205261/)

and this lovely quote

"The problem is we can't discriminate" because this county clerk so wants to discriminate
Pasco clerk on gay wedding ceremonies: Not us, not yet (http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2015/1/3/pasco_clerk_on_gay_w.html)

[Jimturner]

That I agree with... the accusation that any religion other than the Christian religion will ruin the USA I don't.

I can accept your veiw that Christianity is no better than any other religion, but it is ours and we should honor and respect it. To allow sharia law to modify our laws would be devastating to our way of life. Also, religions with the differences as vast as Muslim and Christianity opens the door to violent confrontation.

[BarryRX]

It breaks my heart to say this, but I do not believe any non Christian religion will do anything but harm the way of life in the United States. I would vote for Christian or Atheist, but no other religious laws should be respected by our judicial system.

Hi Jim, I'm a Jew. Please list all the ways that my religion has harmed the way of life in the US in the past or will do so in the future. Heck, just name one! I am not only interested in your reply as a Jew, but also as a proud American and a veteran, as were my father before me and his father, who came to this country to escape the ovens of Nazi Germany. I'm not angry at your statement Jim, just disappointed that you seem to misunderstand your religion as much as you do mine.

[Jimturner]

I am simply defending my Christian faith. I will not debate my God nor my Savior Jesus Christ. I also am not angry with you; however, please understand when you deny Jesus Christ as your savior, you are being disrespectful and I guard against all things indicating my faith is false.

[BarryRX]

I am simply defending my Christian faith. I will not debate my God nor my Savior Jesus Christ. I also am not angry with you; however, please understand when you deny Jesus Christ as your savior, you are being disrespectful and I guard against all things indicating my faith is false.

Aw Jim, I don't believe you're being disrespectful of Judaism because you believe in something else. Why would you even think I'm being disrespectful of your religion for believing in mine? But, we're getting away from the premise of your original post which stated that a non Christian religion will harm our country. Again, please just give one way that my belief as a Jew will do this. Just one. Please note that in no way am I attacking your faith and beliefs, I just want to know why you have slandered mine.

[Jimturner]

I will pray for your salvation in Jesus name Barry.

[karostay]

Rid the world of all religion:pray: and you just might have chance of lasting peace and harmony

[Jimturner]

Rid the world of all religion:pray: and you just might have chance of lasting peace and harmony

Hence my original statement, vote Christian or Atheist. Trying to mix religions is futile. This country allows you to worship to any God you choose. My wish is to NOT LET ANY RELIGION BUT CHRISTIANITY influance the enactment of laws that govern us. Jesus Christ is what Americans (the majority) see as the gateway to heaven. If not Christian based, then enact our laws without the influence of any primitive laws like those in the Middle East.

I mean no disrespect to other religions, but they differ from mine and I am not going to accept them changing my way of thinking. Give me the teachings of Jesus Christ or give me Atheisum.

[rubicon]

[B][/B

Wow! I never thought once that the OP's introduction was about religion per se but instead about a community that rejected assimilation into an American way of life. It is why I referenced the Somalia community and the Hmong to show a contrast. I cannot judge why the OP decided not to name the city but from the posts it seems Detroit is likely the spot. I noted Minneapolis because the same sort of goings on are occurring there also. New York city is experiencing the same sort of thing as are other areas of the country.

Its not about religion for me but a culture that is an antithesis to American values and and culture. As Americans we believe people come here to become Americans. Our melting pot was our strength and so if any population refuses assimilation its basically dividing this nation and a divided nation will fall

[redwitch]

Personally, I believe every individual has the right to follow the beliefs of their religion. However, that does not give that person the right to refuse to do their job, whether it be serving a customer alcohol and pork, inspecting a restaurant because it serves pork or marrying someone because they are gay. If this is part of your job duties and it is legal according to the laws of your country, then do your job or find another place to work.

I find most of sharia law loathsome. I also do not understand the logic behind Orthodox Judaism or fundamentalist Christianity. This country was based on freedom of religion. No one should have the right to force others to follow their beliefs nor should laws be changed to accommodate those beliefs.

Extremists of any persuasion are obscenities to me. No one has the right to foist their beliefs on another. You don't want to touch pork? Fine, get a job where pork isn't served. You believe that gays don't have the right to marry? Fine, don't work in a marriage licensing department. Don't expect the world, especially the USA, to accommodate your beliefs.

[Rags123]

Typing errors corrected:




I appreciate the calls for the removal from office of this person who felt his religious opinion trumped the job to which he was elected. I did need to edit the original post a bit, as I made some typing errors.

For those who wanted links:
Some clerks ax nuptials so they won't have to marry gays (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2015/01/02/same-sex-marriage-florida/21205261/)

and this lovely quote

"The problem is we can't discriminate" because this county clerk so wants to discriminate
Pasco clerk on gay wedding ceremonies: Not us, not yet (http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/baynews9/news/article.html/content/news/articles/bn9/2015/1/3/pasco_clerk_on_gay_w.html)


So the original post was made up and a lie !

Are you laughing at those who took your post as authentic and responded ?

Pretty funny, huh ?

I usually assume that posters do not make things up for their own personal amusement !

[rubicon]

So the original post was made up and a lie !

Are you laughing at those who took your post as authentic and responded ?

Pretty funny, huh ?

I usually assume that posters do not make things up for their own personal amusement !

Hi Rags123: Actually the OP's post was closer to the truth than he recognized. Indeed Somalians grocery clerks in Minneapolis refuse to checkout people who purchased pork and taxi drivers who refuse passengers that de planed who purchased alcohol. The fight is how far can they go and what are employers willing to stand. the Twin cities are very liberal and it is entirely possible that a Muslim could get hired as state Health Inspector.

In fact when I lived there any signs of even an easter bunny were restricted in state buildings because it was interpreted as too closely associated with the religious Easter Holiday.

The OP certainly hooked me but because of the aforementioned and then i viewed as cultural and not religious.

I may be wrong, and I hope I am, but the OP's action seem to indicate disdain for those who disagree with his opinion and that's why he toyed with us. However forgiveness is divine and anyone of us could error so I harbor no ill feelings toward this OP

[graciegirl]

I feel the same way. I don't like being tricked. I also find who I agree with and who I don't.

Well said Redwitch, Rags, and Rubicon and CFrance.

I just love you Barry. You are great looking in your Christmas shirt. I bet you look nice in a Yarmulke too. AND you are smart and enjoyable.

ENJOYABLE is a valid thing to be

[Moderator]

Please stay on topic.

Also, please give the OP a chance to refute allegations that the topic was based on a false story.

Moderator

[Taltarzac725]

In an upper Midwestern state there is a large community of Muslims who managed to get a co-religionist appointed as the local head of the health department. It turns out that restaurant inspections have always been done by the head of the health department, but also have been available from the state office. This new department head who began his appointment on Jan 1st has just announced that his office will no longer do restaurant inspections as he believes his religion forbids him from handling pork and other non-halal foods. He says the public will not be inconvenienced because the state is still going to be doing inspections. Do you think he should quit his job or at least put aside his religion when he is there to provide services to the public in a manner which every previous person did who held that position? It is also going to cost his community money as there was a charge collected for each inspection which the government will no longer be collecting as it is not doing the inspection.

The Arab American News - Business (http://www.arabamericannews.com/news/news/cid_25/Business.html)

That's an interesting problem.

Is this just a one Muslim government agency? Other Muslims? Christians? Non-believers?

[Chi-Town]

In an upper Midwestern state there is a large community of Muslims who managed to get a co-religionist appointed as the local head of the health department. It turns out that restaurant inspections have always been done by the head of the health department, but also have been available from the state office. This new department head who began his appointment on Jan 1st has just announced that his office will no longer do restaurant inspections as he believes his religion forbids him from handling pork and other non-halal foods. He says the public will not be inconvenienced because the state is still going to be doing inspections. Do you think he should quit his job or at least put aside his religion when he is there to provide services to the public in a manner which every previous person did who held that position? It is also going to cost his community money as there was a charge collected for each inspection which the government will no longer be collecting as it is not doing the inspection.
What part of your post is factual?

[redwitch]

I think I understand why blueash changed the article from gay marriage officials to sharia law issues. Would the responses have been as vehement if the original article had been quoted properly? Probably not. By making it a Muslim religious issue, the replies took on a life of their own. The fact that it is based on a Judeo-Christian belief makes it much more palatable, doesn't it? Both are based on religious beliefs. Both are flouting a law. An individual who refuses to marry a gay couple because of religious belief is shirking their job duties as much as someone who refuses to handle pork. Both should find new jobs.

[graciegirl]

I think I understand why blueash changed the article from gay marriage officials to sharia law issues. Would the responses have been as vehement if the original article had been quoted properly? Probably not. By making it a Muslim religious issue, the replies took on a life of their own. The fact that it is based on a Judeo-Christian belief makes it much more palatable, doesn't it? Both are based on religious beliefs. Both are flouting a law. An individual who refuses to marry a gay couple because of religious belief is shirking their job duties as much as someone who refuses to handle pork. Both should find new jobs.


Redwitch, for obvious reasons we are scared and worried in this country about Muslims who are extremists. Those who behead people and make bombs that maim and kill people running in a Marathon. It is a very charged subject and it gets people all nervous.

What we found on this thread is a Christian who is typical of conservative Christians. We found a Jew who is an atheist who is really hot about issues of separation of church and state. AND other nice people who HATE to be tricked.


Please don't do that anymore Blueash. You were luckily born with high intelligence and you should not use it to trick people.

Your way of looking at things is only your way of looking at things and not intrinsically right. Our age and wisdom have caught up with your I.Q. points.

[Chi-Town]

The Moderator requested that we give blueash a chance to explain himself as far as if his story was made up. The clock is ticking.

[redwitch]

Gracie, anyone not scared by extremists is a fool and that's true whether an atheist, a Christian, a Jew or a Muslim. Islamic extremists have murdered more Muslims than they have murdered those of other religions, including counting 9-11 in that amount.

So, back to my question and probably blueash's point, would the reaction have been different if he had quoted the article correctly from the git go? Is it okay for someone issuing marriage licenses and performing marriage ceremonies as a county employee to refuse to perform a ceremony on religious grounds? If so, then an Islamic official should have the right to refuse job performance on religious beliefs. We can't have one set of rules and laws for Christians and another for other religious groups. This is not the principles on which America was founded.

[graciegirl]

Gracie, anyone not scared by extremists is a fool and that's true whether an atheist, a Christian, a Jew or a Muslim. Islamic extremists have murdered more Muslims than they have murdered those of other religions, including counting 9-11 in that amount.

So, back to my question and probably blueash's point, would the reaction have been different if he had quoted the article correctly from the git go? Is it okay for someone issuing marriage licenses and performing marriage ceremonies as a county employee to refuse to perform a ceremony on religious grounds? If so, then an Islamic official should have the right to refuse job performance on religious beliefs. We can't have one set of rules and laws for Christians and another for other religious groups. This is not the principles on which America was founded.


I get that...but in our effort to be FAIR we may open ourselves to bad changes.

Not all absolutes are absolute. This is a democracy and the majority rules.

[Taltarzac725]

I get that...but in our effort to be FAIR we may open ourselves to bad changes.

Not all absolutes are absolute. This is a democracy and the majority rules.

Context is extremely important. A Utah official who refuses to marry an unorthodox Mormon to his three wives is different. There are many polygamous marriages in The Bible but that does not make them legal or moral in the 21st Century.

I can see a very small Muslim community perhaps doing what Blueash wrote about if this is the only person in the health department in that community. There are some towns where the mayor, health inspector, police captain, etc. could be all the same person.

If there were threats of violence against a minister who is going to perform a gay marriage, then I would be hard pressed saying that the marriage should be carried out at that specific time and place.

[Paulz]

Getting back on topic.

In the real world where you apply for a job there is a statement you signoff on stating that you agree and are able to preform all functions and responsibilities of the job. This is not a reasonable accommodation as in allowing time off for a religious holiday, in my guess a pretty big part of the job they signed up for.

[graciegirl]

In situations such as the OP is dancing around, you must follow the law as it is written in the land that you live and that is even if you don't agree with it. if it is your job to issue marriage licenses then you must issue marriage licenses to any and all people who may legally marry..

You may not agree that in your personal belief that they should marry, but if they apply and the law says they can, do your job or find one where your personal moral code does not interfere.

Further, if you want to change a law, try to do it in a practical and realistic manner. You can march to China and back and all you're gonna get is tired feet. Buy hey..it is your freedom to do so.

But do you want to fish, or cut bait?

[Jimturner]

Gracie, anyone not scared by extremists is a fool and that's true whether an atheist, a Christian, a Jew or a Muslim. Islamic extremists have murdered more Muslims than they have murdered those of other religions, including counting 9-11 in that amount.

So, back to my question and probably blueash's point, would the reaction have been different if he had quoted the article correctly from the git go? Is it okay for someone issuing marriage licenses and performing marriage ceremonies as a county employee to refuse to perform a ceremony on religious grounds? If so, then an Islamic official should have the right to refuse job performance on religious beliefs. We can't have one set of rules and laws for Christians and another for other religious groups. This is not the principles on which America was founded.


You say clearly what I mean. Thank you for this post red witch.. I keep saying, serve your God the way you wish, but do not try to change my countries laws to fit your religious beliefs. Christianity is the only path in America.

[graciegirl]

Redwitch...that is not a good argument, in my opinion. That Extreme Muslims have murdered more Muslims than people of other faiths and that includes the 911 horror.

They HAVE, but only because those "infidels" were close at hand. The ones who didn't cover their hair or ate pork or didn't want to have a clitorectomy.

I do not like those people at all. There is nothing worthy about them as far as what I believe.

And I am allowed to think that and say that.

[graciegirl]

I am faithful to my Christianity and you say I have a wrong attitude! Wow... I have heard it on the news and in church, but This is the first to actually call me out for defending my Christian Faith. Being wishy washy on faith by any means is a way to defy God. I will not be part of that.

The Christ that I have been taught about, teaches by example and by good works. And is the essence of love and forgiveness.

Then there are the Pharisees.

You are called to preach the Gospel and sometimes that is most effective without words.

The crusades are history.

[Challenger]

"Mandamus"

The failures cited in this thread refering to government officials who refruse to act according to the requirements of their job should be addressed by the legal (secular and non religious) process of initiating a request to the courts(secular and non religious) for Mandamus relief. Arguments about the superiority of one group of religious beliefs vs another is an endless loop .

The actions cited (whether actual or hypothetical) are simply derilictions of duty, whether religiously based or whatever.

How's that for an Opinion!!!

[redwitch]

You say clearly what I mean. Thank you for this post red witch.. I keep saying, serve your God the way you wish, but do not try to change my countries laws to fit your religious beliefs. Christianity is the only path in America.

Sigh. I think you totally perverted what I meant to suit your personal beliefs. I'm willing to bet that you believe that county employees who refuse to marry gay couples or county officials who are willing to accommodate those bigots are totally right. To me, they pervert American standards as much, if not more so, than a Muslim following his religious beliefs.

I feel sorry for you. Your world is so small and closed. I truly don't think God is going to deny someone their spot in Heaven so long as they are kind, forgiving and follow the His basic tenets. Whether you call God Yahweh, Jesus, Allah, etc. is irrelevant. It is the kind of person you are that matters.

Our founding fathers deliberately separated church and state. According to you, that is about as true as me saying the sky is purple.

[Jimturner]

The Christ that I have been taught about, teaches by example and by good works. And is the essence of love and forgiveness.

Then there are the Pharisees.

You are called to preach the Gospel and sometimes that is most effective without words.

The crusades are history.

Sorry, I do not see any point in your words above.

I will be clear, I AM CHRISTIAN and will not agree to tolerate the savagery of middle eastern religions. I was taught to be faithful to God and you cannot do that following anything but the bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ.
I have never understood the warm touchy beliefs from the 60s. Good deeds is wonderful, but to deny Jesus Christ is an unforgivable sin in my faith.

[BarryRX]

Sorry, I do not see any point in your words above.

I will be clear, I AM CHRISTIAN and will not agree to tolerate the savagery of middle eastern religions. I was taught to be faithful to God and you cannot do that following anything but the bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ.
I have never understood the warm touchy beliefs from the 60s. Good deeds is wonderful, but to deny Jesus Christ is an unforgivable sin in my faith.

Christianity is a middle eastern religion. Still waiting for an answer to my question.

[pivo]

If anyone wants to know where this is leading----check out--demographics of muslims in america------within 20 to 30 yrs they will control most of the world--please check it out
really scary.

[Chi-Town]

Getting back to the Moderator's request before this thread is closed. I have seen posts quoting Internet articles that a third grader would Snope. And sources cited that have zero credibility. And hyperlinks everywhere in between ponderous ramblings. But to make up a story just for feedback totally sucks. Reminds me of Milli Vanilli. You blew it blueash.

[Jimturner]

I believe that any faith that does not include Jesus Christ as lord and savior to be an abomination.

[Challenger]

If anyone wants to know where this is leading----check out--demographics of muslims in america------within 20 to 30 yrs they will control most of the world--please check it out
really scary.

Straight line projections are universally wrong in the long term. !!!

[CFrance]

Sorry, I do not see any point in your words above.

I will be clear, I AM CHRISTIAN and will not agree to tolerate the savagery of middle eastern religions. I was taught to be faithful to God and you cannot do that following anything but the bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ.
I have never understood the warm touchy beliefs from the 60s. Good deeds is wonderful, but to deny Jesus Christ is an unforgivable sin in my faith.
Whoever taught you that the only way to be faithful to God is to follow Christian teachings was indoctrinating you into their belief system.

Which is fine, but don't for a minute think that Christians are the only ones with access to God. Christians don't have a soul claim on God. They don't even have the original claim on God.

And don't forget, or apparently you have, that this country was founded with religious freedom in mind. You have no right to claim yours is the only religion to be followed in the governing of America. Or even that any religion is to be followed in the governing of America.

That kind of intolerance is as scary as groups like the KKK and other white supremists.

[Schaumburger]

Personally, I believe every individual has the right to follow the beliefs of their religion. However, that does not give that person the right to refuse to do their job, whether it be serving a customer alcohol and pork, inspecting a restaurant because it serves pork or marrying someone because they are gay. If this is part of your job duties and it is legal according to the laws of your country, then do your job or find another place to work.

I find most of sharia law loathsome. I also do not understand the logic behind Orthodox Judaism or fundamentalist Christianity. This country was based on freedom of religion. No one should have the right to force others to follow their beliefs nor should laws be changed to accommodate those beliefs.

Extremists of any persuasion are obscenities to me. No one has the right to foist their beliefs on another. You don't want to touch pork? Fine, get a job where pork isn't served. You believe that gays don't have the right to marry? Fine, don't work in a marriage licensing department. Don't expect the world, especially the USA, to accommodate your beliefs.

Excellent post! Agree with you 100%.

[Jimturner]

You definitely got me wrong. I am a big supporter of same sex marriage and anyone in any gov position to perform them should be held in contempt when they do not. But if you are saying that one can say forget about Jesus, Then we disagree on that point.

[Schaumburger]

Whoever taught you that the only way to be faithful to God is to follow Christian teachings was indoctrinating you into their belief system.

Which is fine, but don't for a minute think that Christians are the only ones with access to God. Christians don't have a soul claim on God. They don't even have the original claim on God.

And don't forget, or apparently you have, that this country was founded with religious freedom in mind. You have no right to claim yours is the only religion to be followed in the governing of America. Or even that any religion is to be followed in the governing of America.

That kind of intolerance is as scary as groups like the KKK and other white supremists.

Another excellent post. Thank you!

[Challenger]

I believe that any faith that does not include Jesus Christ as lord and savior to be an abomination.

Wow! Wow! Wow

[Rags123]

Getting back to the Moderator's request before this thread is closed. I have seen posts quoting Internet articles that a third grader would Snope. And sources cited that have zero credibility. And hyperlinks everywhere in between ponderous ramblings. But to make up a story just for feedback totally sucks. Reminds me of Milli Vanilli. You blew it blueash.

Got you and I to agree however.

A lie is a lie !!!!

Matters not why, especially on a forum. It is simply trolling as elementary children do.