Are The Villages homes insulated for cold?

[Patf]

We are new to The Villages and trying to figure out if there is a problem with our house. The house was built in 2008. During the cool months, we keep the thermostat at 68 degrees during the day and turn the heat off at night. On a typical night when the low is 45 degrees, the temperature in the house drops to about 60 degrees. Is this normal?

Our neighbors tell us they do the same thing and the temp in their house only drops to about 65 degrees.

We do the same thing in our house in Michigan. When the temp is 45 degrees at night the temp only drops to about 65.

I can not find any drafts or cold air leaks in our Villages house. Are our neighbors just lucky, or do we have a problem with our house?

[dbussone]

We are new to The Villages and trying to figure out if there is a problem with our house. The house was built in 2008. During the cool months, we keep the thermostat at 68 degrees during the day and turn the heat off at night. On a typical night when the low is 45 degrees, the temperature in the house drops to about 60 degrees. Is this normal?

Our neighbors tell us they do the same thing and the temp in their house only drops to about 65 degrees.

We do the same thing in our house in Michigan. When the temp is 45 degrees at night the temp only drops to about 65.

I can not find any drafts or cold air leaks in our Villages house. Are our neighbors just lucky, or do we have a problem with our house?

The houses are very well built. I think what you are experiencing is that most of our homes have a lot of glass and that exposure causes the additional drop. We have enclosed our lanai with floor to ceiling glass, and leave the sliders open. Our home remains comfortable in spite of that.

[Carl in Tampa]

Are you turning the heat off to save money? With the relatively few really frigid nights during a Florida winter, I doubt that you are saving much. Comfort means more to me than the few dollars more per year that staying warm costs.

The temperature displayed on your thermostat may also be a little off. You might want to purchase a traditional glass tube thermometer to get a more accurate reading.

And remember that the ambient temperature shown on the thermostat is the temperature in the room where the thermostat is located; it may be quite different in other rooms in the house.

And, also, the thermostats are calibrated to turn on and off within a two degree range of their settings, further confusing things.

Remember, your house is like a thermos bottle; it is insulated to keep your house cool in summer and warm and winter. As the old joke goes: How does it know?

[NotGolfer]

Houses are insulated! But the way they build houses are a bit different than "up north". There they put the styrofoam sheets on the walls before they side. Also the "weight" of the insulation might not be quite as thick. I'm not sure how you describe that. I too felt our house was chillier (cold) during the cold months here. When we have a day like today 1/8, with the stiff north wind and colder temps it feels cold. You may just have to layer your clothing when it's like this and put an extra blanket on the be.

[dotti105]

We moved here from the mountains of Utah. Ski resorts, 350" of snow a year etc. We have found a home here to be very well insulated. In fact we have had the heat/AC off since before Thanksgiving. Loving the weather and our home. 1 or 2 nights with the temp dropping to freezing and we are happy campers!!

[JoMar]

We moved here from the mountains of Utah. Ski resorts, 350" of snow a year etc. We have found a home here to be very well insulated. In fact we have had the heat/AC off since before Thanksgiving. Loving the weather and our home. 1 or 2 nights with the temp dropping to freezing and we are happy campers!!

We recently had our house insulated with a thermal barrier, additional layer of blown insulation and the garage doors insulated......we keep the thermostat at 72 and early this morning was the first time the heat came on and that was for about 45 minutes. Since we had the work completed the temp maintains between 73 - 75 degrees so heat rarely kicks in. We also installed a Nest thermostat which gives us an energy and history report. Having said all that....we notice a difference in house comfort between now and the pre-upgrades but as we all know, it's all about what makes you comfortable.

[twoplanekid]

Today, I awoke to find lots of moisture on all of the metal windows frames on my new Holly home. The nice lady at The Villages customer warranty department expressed that I wasn’t the first today to call about this issue. She stated that my windows are only double pane and not thermal pane windows as we have up North. Try running the ceiling fans and have a good day.

I am going to tell the cellular blind installer to make sure that the blinds don’t contact the windows as mold could develop.

For those of you who have been here awhile, what should be done?

[NYGUY]

We keep our house at 70 during the winter. If I were to turn the heat off at night, I would have to wear so many layers of clothing and use so many blankets that I would be very uncomfortable.

[Bonanza]

Unfortunately, the houses here in TV are only of average construction. They have the minimum insulation in the walls and ceiling and you will not find any batting in any of the walls or ceiling with the exception of the garage/house wall. Ideally, we should have R-30 batting in the ceiling. All of the homes have blown-in insulation which eventually settles over time and is displaced because of winds. They blow it in because it is cheap and fast.

In the CBS houses (concrete block & stucco) since we have no exterior walls with studs (except the garage interior wall), the insulation they provide is is bare bones -- R-3 with a minimal air space between the block and foil covered insulation. In a decently built house in Florida, we should have at least R-11. I think the vinyl siding houses may have better insulation in the walls, but I am not sure.

Another thing they skimp on is the roof overhang. It is much too narrow for Florida houses and offers almost no protection from the sun. I guess you can tell from the tone of the above paragraphs that our windows are just okay. Nothing to write home about there either.

We are currently having granite countertops installed in our kitchen. After the existing countertops were removed we were shocked to see that the wallboard behind the cabinets was never taped! You have to wonder what other short cuts they take during construction.

[tuccillo]

We have a new house and overall it is not bad. I find the bedrooms get a bit cool but this is because the thermostat is centrally located and the heat does not run that much, even on relatively cold nights, and the bedrooms are on the exterior walls. They cool faster than the main living area and we have a single zone of heating/cooling. The houses are not the most energy efficient homes you will find but I assume this is because there is not a demand for such. They undoubtedly meet all of the Florida codes. For the most part, you need to build a custom home to do better than the building codes. In our previous home, I included a number of energy/comfort features but it wasn't clear to me that there was a return on investment: Insulated Concrete Forms (ICF), closed-cell spray foam insulation, sealed attic, and 4-zone high SEER-rated heatpump.

I would recommend that you keep the heatpump on at night (I am assuming you have a heatpump). Heatpumps work best when set to a specific temperature that you are comfortable with and not changed. A degree or 2 difference between the setpoint on the thermostat and the actual temperature is typically enough to trigger the electrical resistance auxiliary heat and that will increase your electric bill. If you keep the heat on and leave it at a fixed temperature you will minimize/eliminate the use of the auxiliary heat. 60 degrees is pretty cool. You could have additional insulation blown into the attic. Doing anything about the wall insulation may be impossible and even if you could it may not be cost effective. Covering the windows and sliders with drapes will help with heat loss. You can probably have the house inspected with some thermal imaging equipment to see if there are areas of high heat loss.

We are new to The Villages and trying to figure out if there is a problem with our house. The house was built in 2008. During the cool months, we keep the thermostat at 68 degrees during the day and turn the heat off at night. On a typical night when the low is 45 degrees, the temperature in the house drops to about 60 degrees. Is this normal?

Our neighbors tell us they do the same thing and the temp in their house only drops to about 65 degrees.

We do the same thing in our house in Michigan. When the temp is 45 degrees at night the temp only drops to about 65.

I can not find any drafts or cold air leaks in our Villages house. Are our neighbors just lucky, or do we have a problem with our house?

[tuccillo]

The condensate on the metal window frames is not something to be overly concerned about. This will happen whenever we have a large temperature drop (like we just did). The metal frames conduct heat efficiently and cool and the air inside the house still has a relatively high dewpoint so moisture condenses on the cool metal frames. In a day or so, normal air exchange between the inside and outside of the house will bring the inside dewpoint down and the condensation will stop.

Today, I awoke to find lots of moisture on all of the metal windows frames on my new Holly home. The nice lady at The Villages customer warranty department expressed that I wasn’t the first today to call about this issue. She stated that my windows are only double pane and not thermal pane windows as we have up North. Try running the ceiling fans and have a good day.

I am going to tell the cellular bind installer to make sure that the binds don’t contact the windows as mold could develop.

For those of you who have been here awhile, what should be done?

[jblum315]

I have heard that the frame (vinyl) houses are better insulated than the block houses because there is more room for insulation. I have a frame designer built in 2009 and facing north. All I know is that if i don't turn the heat on on a cold day the temperature drops to about 66 and stays there. If I turn the heat up to 70, it warms up to 70, I turn it off and it stays there until the next really cold snap. Never had moisture on windows. Running heat is much more expensive than running AC so I try to do it as little as possible

[tuccillo]

The power draw for a heatpump is roughly the same for heating and cooling modes unless you spend time in auxiliary mode (resistance heat strips). This happens when the system goes into defrost mode or when it can't keep up using the compressor only. Assuming you aren't using auxiliary mode, the power usage is proportional to the runtime.

I have heard that the frame (vinyl) houses are better insulated than the block houses because there is more room for insulation. I have a frame designer built in 2009 and facing north. All I know is that if i don't turn the heat on on a cold day the temperature drops to about 66 and stays there. If I turn the heat up to 70, it warms up to 70, I turn it off and it stays there until the next really cold snap. Never had moisture on windows. Running heat is much more expensive than running AC so I try to do it as little as possible

[tuccillo]

That is probably true. I believe they are framing with 2x4s so with fiberglass batts they are probably getting something around R-11. The concrete houses use a insulating board - probably less than R-11.

I have heard that the frame (vinyl) houses are better insulated than the block houses because there is more room for insulation. I have a frame designer built in 2009 and facing north. All I know is that if i don't turn the heat on on a cold day the temperature drops to about 66 and stays there. If I turn the heat up to 70, it warms up to 70, I turn it off and it stays there until the next really cold snap. Never had moisture on windows. Running heat is much more expensive than running AC so I try to do it as little as possible

[Topspinmo]

I find my house very well insulated. But, depends on how big or open your house is IMO. IMO you should set the thermostat during the cold weather and leave it. IMO if you let the house temp. get to low and turn the heat on it just takes long time to bring the house up to steady comfortable temp. So IMO savings may not be that much.

[billethkid]

I find my house very well insulated. But, depends on how big or open your house is IMO. IMO you should set the thermostat during the cold weather and leave it. IMO if you let the house temp. get to low and turn the heat on it just takes long time to bring the house up to steady comfortable temp. So IMO savings may not be that much.

This is very true. As the temperature differential between indoors and outdoors gets larger....lowering the thermostat merely changes the the set point the system will continue to run/cycle to achieve.

Also regarding the efficiency of a heat pump. The lower the outside temperature gets below the low 30s the less efficient it becomes. A heat pump collects heat from the exterior surrounding ambient environment. The lower the temperature the less heat the longer the unit needs to run. So on those less tha 30 degree mornings it matters little what your choice of indoor temperature, the unit is going to run a long long time to satisfy the setpoint....whether 62 (or lower) or 72 (or higher)!!!!
It can helpful to have a heat pump on the side of the house where the sun comes up. And there is a case for it being on the side where the sun goes down....depending when you are home the most!

[graciegirl]

Every year at this time we have pretty much the same conversations on this forum. We are amazed at how well this house holds heat and stays cool. We have built many homes and this one is the most comfortable when it comes to temperature...no cold or hot spots. I love that it is all on one floor. We had lots of windows in our house in Cincinnati and our heat and cooling bill was awful.

Here we have a set of sliders and a set of French doors and only six other windows in the living part of the house, two in the garage. The garage gets hot and cold but there are no salt stains on the floor.

Gary, do you hear me defending your buildings?

[tuccillo]

If you have a heatpump, moving the setpoint up and down can be expensive because a couple of degree difference between the setpoint and actual temperature can trigger the auxiliary heat, which uses electrical resistance strips to create heat to supplement the compressor. This is an expensive situation. You are better off using the compressor only, which moves heat as opposed to creating it. The "leverage" is roughly 3 to 1. In other words, it takes 1/3 the power to run the compressor to move a unit of heat than to power the auxiliary heating strips to create a unit of heat. You want the system to maintain a fixed temperature in your house using only the compressor. Leaving the setpoint alone is the way to accomplish this.

I find my house very well insulated. But, depends on how big or open your house is IMO. IMO you should set the thermostat during the cold weather and leave it. IMO if you let the house temp. get to low and turn the heat on it just takes long time to bring the house up to steady comfortable temp. So IMO savings may not be that much.

[tuccillo]

The temperature variation in our house with the heat on is about 3 degrees. This is not bad for a 1-zone system. The front bedroom has a lot of windows and 3 outside walls. There is a limit to what you can expect with the heat not running very often and a centrally located thermostat. Our previous home with 4 zones was uniform within the accuracy of the thermostats - probably less than 1/2 degree.

Every year at this time we have pretty much the same conversations on this forum. We are amazed at how well this house holds heat and stays cool. We have built many homes and this one is the most comfortable when it comes to temperature...no cold or hot spots. I love that it is all on one floor. We had 57 windows in our house in Cincinnati and our heat and cooling bill was awful.

Here we have a set of sliders and a set of French doors and only six other windows in the living part of the house, two in the garage. The garage gets hot and cold but there are no salt stains on the floor.

Gary, do you hear me defending your buildings?

[cquick]

I agree with the previous poster, it works the same in my house. I must have the same type of layout.

[borjo]

Another thing that may cause better insulation is the type vinyl used. At construction we were given a choice of insulated or non-insulated vinyl. We chose the insulated. I can't remember the difference in R-factor. If your vinyl pushes in easily it's probably uninsulated. Ours has a bit of resistance from the added foam backing.

[Bavarian]

Most of my points already made. Air source heat pump does not warm house as much as a geothermal heatpump or an oil heater.
I think the metal frame windows are also a problem, transfers cold in Winter and heat in Summer.

We were not offered an upgrade option of wood frame windows, vinal coated on outside, so no maintenance. We would have taken them. But I think the builders can't let you have too many choices or it will reduce volume discounts.

First house I bought was air source heat pump and always cold, next house we spent the money and got geothermal, warm as toast. But we had clay soil, good heat and cold retention. Still have the MD house up for sale.

[Shimpy]

[B
I think the vinyl siding houses may have better insulation in the walls, but I am not sure.
.[/B]

I think you're right. This is the first house I've lived in that wasn't CBS since living almost all my life in Florida. Once the inside of our house gets cold it stays that way for a long time even though the outside temps are quite warm. It doesn't take much to keep it from getting cold though. I also have found that if you have carpeting which most people are pulling up and replacing with tile, adds warmth to the house over cold tile floors. Think about it, as the ground gets cold so does the slab that your house is built on. If you cover the concrete with ceramic tile it only transfers the cold to your homes interior. But, if you cover that slab with foam padding and carpeting it insulates that cold slab from your homes interior , making the heat work less and the electric bill smaller.

[herbaru]

The condensate on the metal window frames is not something to be overly concerned about. This will happen whenever we have a large temperature drop (like we just did). The metal frames conduct heat efficiently and cool and the air inside the house still has a relatively high dewpoint so moisture condenses on the cool metal frames. In a day or so, normal air exchange between the inside and outside of the house will bring the inside dewpoint down and the condensation will stop.

I wish this was true. Our windows are covered with plantation shutters and they have condensation every cold night. We are into our second winter in our just over a year old home. The windows hit by the sun dry up but the ones not hit till late in the day do not dry. Today I noticed mold forming!

[tuccillo]

It is 43 outside now and our window frames are cold but there is no condensate. The dewpoint is low enough now for condensate not to form. The other night, we had a fair amount of condensate but the dewpoint in the house was higher. Condensate only forms when the metal frames have cooled to the dewpoint (which is a measure of the absolute amount of moisture in the air). Lack of adequate ventilation in a house can result in higher dewpoints as moisture can accumulate from showers, cooking, breathing etc. Most homes have enough ventilation that moisture content in the air will adjust to the what is in the outside air relatively quickly. The problems is worse when it has been relatively warm outside and all of a sudden we have a big temperature drop - the air inside the house will have a relatively high amount of moisture and it will then condense on the cold frames.

I wish this was true. Our windows are covered with plantation shutters and they have condensation every cold night. We are into our second winter in our just over a year old home. The windows hit by the sun dry up but the ones not hit till late in the day do not dry. Today I noticed mold forming!

[Chi-Town]

High ceilings where the vents are is not a good combination in a lot of the homes when it comes to heating. But we moved to Florida to enjoy air conditioning.

[graciegirl]

High ceilings where the vents are is not a good combination in a lot of the homes when it comes to heating. But we moved to Florida to enjoy air conditioning.


YES WE DID TOO.

AND if it doesn't get warm pretty soon I am calling the sales office to get our money back.

[GeoGeo]

I think alot has to do with the individuals living in the house and not necessarily the construction of the house. In our case, we have the thermostat set at 78 in the summer and 75 in the winter. I wear a cardigan all year long and watch TV with a blanket. DH seems okay with these temps. He has more insulation than I do.

[NavyNJ]

Unfortunately, the houses here in TV are only of average construction. They have the minimum insulation in the walls and ceiling and you will not find any batting in any of the walls or ceiling with the exception of the garage/house wall. Ideally, we should have R-30 batting in the ceiling. All of the homes have blown-in insulation which eventually settles over time and is displaced because of winds. They blow it in because it is cheap and fast.

In the CBS houses (concrete block & stucco) since we have no exterior walls with studs (except the garage interior wall), the insulation they provide is is bare bones -- R-3 with a minimal air space between the block and foil covered insulation. In a decently built house in Florida, we should have at least R-11. I think the vinyl siding houses may have better insulation in the walls, but I am not sure.

Another thing they skimp on is the roof overhang. It is much too narrow for Florida houses and offers almost no protection from the sun. I guess you can tell from the tone of the above paragraphs that our windows are just okay. Nothing to write home about there either.

We are currently having granite countertops installed in our kitchen. After the existing countertops were removed we were shocked to see that the wallboard behind the cabinets was never taped! You have to wonder what other short cuts they take during construction.


Bonanza: You make a lot of good points, and not all that surprising for large development, non-custom built homes. And that's true pretty much anywhere in the country you want to compare. Also, just as another data point, in our recently purchased CBS Designer Home, the construction specs we received at closing indicate that R-30 Batt & Blown insulation was used in all Living Area ceilings, and a combo of R-5/R-11 was used in the walls. R-5 rigid foam in exterior walls, and R-11 Batt in the Garage/Home common walls. Not moved down yet, so no actual experience over this winter. Will be interesting to see how next winter turns out. With my luck, it'll end up being a "100 Year" warm winter, and we'll have the AC on the whole time!! LoL Happy 2015!!

[NavyNJ]

Frame homes in the Villages have R11 in the walls and R30 in the ceiling. Block homes have R5 in the walls and R30 in the ceiling. Exceptions... In the day when you could make modifications to homes AKA Designers, option for siding insulation and block insulation injection into the block cavity upped the insulation R values considerably. ( Worked at Munns for a while as a CAD tech )

Lyle: Those certainly would have been nice options to have! Would have probably opted to do that for sure!

[TrudyM]

We had one wall in our bedroom when we lived in Atlanta that just radiated cold in the winter. As we also had noise from the Heat Pump compressor on the other side of the wall we fired out and added another layer of insulation (make sure to take out the old and replace total as I was told if you sandwich the foil in the middle it's a problem) It made it quiet and much much warmer. It means a mess and drywall and paint too but it solved the problem on the north side of the house.

[tuccillo]

When our previous home was being built, I did a Manual J heat load calculation to see how much HVAC we needed. The HVAC contractor did also and we were pretty close to each other. I was surprised to see that most of the heat gain/loss was through the windows. The conclusion I reached is that you need "enough" insulation in the walls but beyond a certain point it doesn't make much difference. We have a concrete block house in The Villages and I know it was built to code but I suspect a bit more insulation in the walls would have been worthwhile. Our previous home was something like R-20 in the walls which probably explains why the windows were the main area of heat loss/gain. I knew this going in and didn't stop me from buying in The Villages.

Lyle: Those certainly would have been nice options to have! Would have probably opted to do that for sure!

[LndLocked]

TV houses are built and insulated to existing building codes .... nothing more and nothing less

[pam832]

TV houses are built and insulated to existing building codes .... nothing more and nothing less
just wish the building code had a little OCD. Maybe my windows (that let all the cold come in ) were centered....hanging drapes are tough!