‘Boy Who Came Back From Heaven’ actually didn’t; books recalled

[quirky3]

This was widely published today. Hopefully some good came of it anyway.

‘Boy Who Came Back From Heaven’ actually didn’t; books recalled - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/style-blog/wp/2015/01/15/boy-who-came-back-from-heaven-going-back-to-publisher/)

[kittygilchrist]

Goo point Quirk. The film made me reflect on how lovely I expect my welcome to be when it is my turn to see Jesus.

[KayakerNC]

“An Open Letter to Lifeway and Other Sellers, Buyers, and Marketers of Heaven Tourism, by the Boy Who Did Not Come Back From Heaven.”


“The Boy Who Came Back From Heaven” Recants Story, Rebukes Christian Retailers [UPDATED!!!!!] | (http://pulpitandpen.org/2015/01/13/the-boy-who-came-back-from-heaven-recants-story-rebukes-christian-retailers/)

[Loudoll]

This was widely published today. Hopefully some good came of it anyway.

‘Boy Who Came Back From Heaven’ actually didn’t; books recalled - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/style-blog/wp/2015/01/15/boy-who-came-back-from-heaven-going-back-to-publisher/)

How could we believe a kid named "Malarkey"?:evil6:

[onslowe]

The premise is bordering on blasphemy and is cynical and manipulative.

They should put millstones around their necks and take a long run off of a short pier for what they may have caused to the innocent, hungry faith of some poor readers.

This certainly is not religion but snake oil garbage for a price.

[Average Guy]

Goo point Quirk. The film made me reflect on how lovely I expect my welcome to be when it is my turn to see Jesus.

Th film was not based on this book, it was based on the book "Heaven is For Real."

[KayakerNC]

Th film was not based on this book, it was based on the book "Heaven is For Real."

There was a TV movie ("documentary") made in 2010 with the same title, based on this book :popcorn:

[Bogie Shooter]

It's all about the money.....................

[DAWN MARIE]

Any book with heaven bound and back claims should be considered fiction and nothing more. They are NOT true. I lost "friends" over this issue in the past when I tried to explain and show why these books were bogus. People want to believe what makes them feel good. Truth can be very hard to swallow but we must lean on truth not emotion especially when it comes to eternal things.

[Barefoot]

Any book with heaven bound and back claims should be considered fiction and nothing more. They are NOT true.

That is a very strong statement.
I assume that you are certain that the book "Proof of Heaven" is untrue?
(It was written by a neurosurgeon, Dr. Eban Alexander, in case you're not familiar with the book.)

[DAWN MARIE]

Yes, all untrue. My son is also a neuro Scientist. He has his Ph.D and he will tell you the same thing.

If you believe, as I do, the real truth book is the Word of God, the bible, you would see the contradictions. Paul wrote about an experience after being stoned almost to death and said he was not permitted to write about such things. If Paul, who wrote almost the whole NT in the first century was not permitted to speak why should we listen to these others? And we don't need a man made profit selling book telling us his story of the "Proof of Heaven" when we've been told that thru the Scriptures which have stood the test of time. If you really want the "genuine" article read the Scriptures. All the others are imitations of the real thing.

[coralway]

PT Barnum was right ..............

[Polar Bear]

Any book with heaven bound and back claims should be considered fiction and nothing more. They are NOT true. I lost "friends" over this issue in the past when I tried to explain and show why these books were bogus. People want to believe what makes them feel good. Truth can be very hard to swallow but we must lean on truth not emotion especially when it comes to eternal things.


Speaking in such absolute terms will turn off even many who agree with your OPINION about such books. It's no wonder you lost friends speaking in such a manner.

[DAWN MARIE]

I told them the book was untrue and showed them the reasons why. They did not or would not accept it because they chose to believe how they felt instead. That's why I lost these "friends." They were not close friends obviously. On the other hand some did the research and agreed you have to chose either or because of the contradictions. The two books and the other books on the market are not all in agreement. I just know that for every original you will have imitations whether it be in jewelry, furs, clothes, pocketbooks or Scripture.

[Polar Bear]

I told them the book was untrue and showed them the reasons why. They did not or would not accept it because they chose to believe how they felt instead...


Oh. So you mean they were doing exactly what you were doing.

[DAWN MARIE]

No...I'm not going on emotion without having anything to back it up with. I know 2+2=4 even if I feel it would be better to say that 2+2=5.

Obviously truth always comes to the top eventually. In this case the boy came forward and admitted it wasn't true. I just didn't want people to waste their money and hopes on something that was obviously not true. I wasn't guessing it wasn't true. I knew it can't be true. It didn't make sense and had inconsistencies. It may take a while but truth always will rise to the top. Eventually.

[Barefoot]

They did not or would not accept it because they chose to believe how they felt instead. That's why I lost these "friends."

Perhaps they had an opinion that differed from yours.
Perhaps they believed that there is more than one way to God.
That does not make them wrong and you right.

[CFrance]

Yes, all untrue. My son is also a neuro Scientist. He has his Ph.D and he will tell you the same thing.

If you believe, as I do, the real truth book is the Word of God, the bible, you would see the contradictions. Paul wrote about an experience after being stoned almost to death and said he was not permitted to write about such things. If Paul, who wrote almost the whole NT in the first century was not permitted to speak why should we listen to these others? And we don't need a man made profit selling book telling us his story of the "Proof of Heaven" when we've been told that thru the Scriptures which have stood the test of time. If you really want the "genuine" article read the Scriptures. All the others are imitations of the real thing.
You and one other person (in your family, I might add) don't believe it, so you can state unequivocally that it's across the board not true???

I happen to be very good friends with someone who died on the operating table. She would tell you it's true, but she doesn't like to talk about it publicly. My husband worked with a man who died from allergy shock and came back to life, who would recount a similar experience.

Neither one of these people has ever tried to gain financially or otherwise from their experience.

[DougB]

Yes, all untrue. My son is also a neuro Scientist. He has his Ph.D and he will tell you the same thing.

If you believe, as I do, the real truth book is the Word of God, the bible, you would see the contradictions. Paul wrote about an experience after being stoned almost to death and said he was not permitted to write about such things..........

Paul WROTE about an experience, but said he was not able to WRITE about it. Uh, I think you lost me there?

[Shimpy]

PT Barnum was right ..............


:agree:

[graciegirl]

Just trying to get the facts, ma'am.


No problem with what anyone said. particularly YOU, CFrance.. I just know how PERSONAL and meaningful religion is to many. There isn't any way to prove anyone is right or wrong.

Just not yet easy with this kind of talk. It's just ME. AND believe me, I am NOT a good example of a good church person.

[onslowe]

Paul WROTE about an experience, but said he was not able to WRITE about it. Uh, I think you lost me there?

Kudos! The ability to pick on the errors of others is an admirable trait, and I'm sure well motivated and intentioned. Lends a lot to the thread at the same time as well as promoting civility.

Maybe, just maybe, Dawnmarie was referring to 2 Corinthians 12. Oh, in the Bible, Epistles of St Paul….

[Loudoll]

This was widely published today. Hopefully some good came of it anyway.

‘Boy Who Came Back From Heaven’ actually didn’t; books recalled - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/style-blog/wp/2015/01/15/boy-who-came-back-from-heaven-going-back-to-publisher/)

The mother, Beth Malarkey states that Alex “has not received monies from the book nor have a majority of his needs been funded by it.”
The Post goes on to say the deal was made not with Alex but with Kevin, the father.
To me, that is just double talk saying Alex didn't profit! Kevin has said nothing apparently but we know that someone profited besides the book sellers. Maybe Alex pulled the plug because his dad was not sharing the money. But I would prefer to believe the boy simply repented.

[senior citizen]

There are over 100 books (or more) on the subject of life after death, of which I have read many over my lifetime..........it's definitely a fascinating subject which never grows old.

I especially pay attention to the "returns" of physicians such as those listed below........as so many doctors are trained to think scientifically; not spiritually. Thus, their accounts I found even more awesome & amazing. Great reads.

However, only when someone has their own true spiritual experience, will they then believe.

I don't like to call it "religious experience" as so many of those are fanatical. Fanatics are not my favorite types of folks as I've always felt that true spirituality should run quietly & deeply within oneself, but reflects outwardly when one truly tries to follow their own highest personal spiritual beliefs.

When one has a truly spiritual awakening..........they will know it. For sure.

When one has seen heaven, and lived to tell about it, I try to accept that it is their reality written down to share this extraordinary experience with others.

I, myself, do most definitely BELIEVE that the soul lives on. I know it.

Amazon.com carries a very long list of "past life experience" and "life after death" books on their website.........

I've read most of them over the years & retain an open mind.........one can always weed out the charlatans from those who truly believe they have been to heaven during a near death experience.

Proof of Heaven: A Neurosurgeon's Journey into the Afterlife (Kindle Edition)

A SCIENTIST’S CASE FOR THE AFTERLIFE
Dr. Eban Alexander III M.D.

"Near-death experiences, or NDEs, are controversial. Thousands of people have had them, but many in the scientific community have argued that they are impossible. Dr. Eben Alexander was one of those people. "

"A highly trained neurosurgeon who had operated on thousands of brains in the course of his career, Alexander knew that what people of faith call the “soul” is really a product of brain chemistry. NDEs, he would have been the first to explain, might feel real to the people having them, but in truth they are simply fantasies produced by brains under extreme stress."

"Then came the day when Dr. Alexander’s own brain was attacked by an extremely rare illness. The part of the brain that controls thought and emotion—and in essence makes us human— shut down completely. For seven days Alexander lay in a hospital bed in a deep coma. Then, as his doctors weighed the possibility of stopping treatment, Alexander’s eyes popped open. He had come back. "

"Alexander’s recovery is by all accounts a medical miracle. But the real miracle of his story lies elsewhere. While his body lay in coma, Alexander journeyed beyond this world and encountered an angelic being who guided him into the deepest realms of super-physical existence. There he met, and spoke with, the Divine source of the universe itself."

"This story sounds like the wild and wonderful imaginings of a skilled fantasy writer. But it is not fantasy. Before Alexander underwent his journey, he could not reconcile his knowledge of neuroscience with any belief in heaven, God, or the soul. That difficulty with belief created an empty space that no professional triumph could erase. Today he is a doctor who believes that true health can be achieved only when we realize that God and the soul are real and that death is not the end of personal existence but only a transition. "

"This story would be remarkable no matter who it happened to. That it happened to Dr. Alexander makes it revolutionary. No scientist or person of faith will be able to ignore it. Reading it will change your life."


To Heaven and Back: A Doctor's Extraordinary Account of Her Death, Heaven, Angels, and Life Again: A True Story (Kindle Edition)

A kayak accident during a South American adventure takes one woman to heaven — where she experienced God’s peace, joy, and angels — and back to life again.

Dr. Mary C. Neal, Author

"In 1999 in the Los Rios region of southern Chile, orthopedic surgeon, devoted wife, and loving mother Dr. Mary Neal drowned in a kayak accident. While cascading down a waterfall, her kayak became pinned at the bottom and she was immediately and completely submerged. Despite the rescue efforts of her companions, Mary was underwater for too long, and as a result, died."

"To Heaven and Back is Mary’s remarkable story of her life’s spiritual journey and what happened as she moved from life to death to eternal life, and back again. Detailing her feelings and surroundings in heaven, her communication with angels, and her deep sense of sadness when she realized it wasn’t her time, Mary shares the captivating experience of her modern-day miracle. "

"Mary’s life has been forever changed by her newfound understanding of her purpose on earth, her awareness of God, her closer relationship with Jesus, and her personal spiritual journey suddenly enhanced by a first-hand experience in heaven. To Heaven and Back will reacquaint you with the hope, wonder, and promise of heaven, while enriching you own faith and walk with God."

************************************************** ***********
For non Christians & Christians alike, Dr. Deepak Chopra's LIFE AFTER DEATH book is also thought provoking........and insightful.

"Deepak Chopra’s Life After Death: The Burden of Proof is the number 10 most popular near-death experience book, according to Amazon’s Sales Rankings. In Life After Death, “Chopra draws on cutting-edge scientific discoveries and the great wisdom traditions to provide a map of the afterlife. He tells us there is abundant evidence that ‘the world beyond’ is not separated from this world by an impassable wall; in fact, a single reality embraces all worlds, all times and places.”

How does this book relate to near-death experiences? In this book, Chopra reviews accounts of near-death experiences and discusses how diverse societies like Tibet and modern America have similar near-death accounts."

Here are some other comments and reviews:
“What Deepak Chopra gives us in this intensive book is many ways to look at life and consciousness, and the seen and unseen universe, and then decide for ourselves what feels right; what makes sense. My highest recommendation for the serious truth seeker.”
************************************************** ***********
When our bible was written, the authors who penned the words had no modern scientific or medical knowledge, or frame of reference...........while our present day physicians do "understand" what happens at the time of one's passing over..........from the physical body to the ethereal body.......

No matter what one's belief system is, all of these books are thought provoking & mind opening.

We'll all know when we cross over.....

[CFrance]

Kudos! The ability to pick on the errors of others is an admirable trait, and I'm sure well motivated and intentioned. Lends a lot to the thread at the same time as well as promoting civility.

Maybe, just maybe, Dawnmarie was referring to 2 Corinthians 12. Oh, in the Bible, Epistles of St Paul….
So... Is this a yea or a nay to what DougB said?

[graciegirl]

So... Is this a yea or a nay to what DougB said?


What did he say? When people write things on here I only read the first couple of sentences. I think I have ADD. or maybe that is subtract.

[Villages PL]

It's interesting how some people think they can determine true (heaven) stories from those that are untrue. For example, they think those that are untrue are the ones where the person stands to make a financial gain. Or, they think those stories that are true are told by doctors or those who never tried to get any recognition.

But notice that ALL story tellers have something in common. They all stand to gain something in one way or another. It just happens to be something different for each person.

For some the reward may be money and/or fame. For others it may simply be a delusion that reinforces their much needed faith. The reward for them is the reassurance that "Heaven Is For Real".

[blueash]

Serious question:
No one who is dead can come back. It is impossible. Dead is dead. So what we are considering is near death experiences. It doesn't matter that some doctor or EMT says you were dead, you were not. Thus all reports are of people who were near death, likely with minimal or absent heart beat and diminished CNS function and diminished or absent oxygenation to the brain.

As they were not dead, and if I understand religious dogma correctly, your soul does not leave your body until you are dead, is this not a completely impossible situation for a soul to leave a living person? Do you believe the soul leaves before death? How is that decision made? Does a soul decide to go or does a deity command it to depart?

[KayakerNC]

The Bible says, “For the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6).

Seems like Heavenly Tourism is not biblical.:shrug:

[Gerald]

if you want to believe in something you would not care what the book says true or not.

Each person should take what they believe into their heart.
That is where it belongs.
Not trying to tell others that their beliefs are wrong or right.

[Barefoot]

Each person should take what they believe into their heart.
That is where it belongs.
Not trying to tell others that their beliefs are wrong or right.

:eclipsee_gold_cup:

[Villages PL]

if you want to believe in something you would not care what the book says true or not.

Each person should take what they believe into their heart.
That is where it belongs.
Not trying to tell others that their beliefs are wrong or right.

If a person's belief leads them to promote what they think is true, are they wrong?

[CFrance]

It's not up to you to determine whether or not a person's belief is wrong. That's being called not minding your own business.

[Villages PL]

It's not up to you to determine whether or not a person's belief is wrong. That's being called not minding your own business.

So disbelief, you would say, is a wrong belief.

[CFrance]

So disbelief, you would say, is a wrong belief.
No, I didn't say that.

[Barefoot]

If a person's belief leads them to promote what they think is true, are they wrong?

It's not up to you to determine whether or not a person's belief is wrong. That's called "not minding your own business".

IMHO, attempting to force a personal belief on another person is wrong.

As Gerald wisely said:

Each person should take what they believe into their heart.
That is where it belongs.
Not trying to tell others that their beliefs are wrong or right.

[DougB]

So... Is this a yea or a nay to what DougB said?

No idea. Made about as much sense as the post I was trying to understand.

[jblum315]

I read that the author tried to recant the story, but the publisher wouldn't let him.

[tedquick]

.

No matter what one's belief system is, all of these books are thought provoking & mind opening.

We'll all know when we cross over.....


“Heaven is for Real” and “Proof of Heaven” are two excellent reads. The first was from the perspective of a four year old while the latter was experienced and then related by a brilliant physician who, prior to his NDE, was a non-believer.

I have a deep-believing Christian friend who says that one cannot go to heaven and then return to earth because there is a permanent separation between the two. Another “learned” Bible person has also stated (paraphrased) that while he doesn’t believe that man can travel between heaven and earth, that he cannot take away the experience of those who believe that they were in heaven and then have returned.

I do not know whether the two people in the above books were actually in heaven or not, but what I do know is that (since the Bible says that heaven is FAR beyond anything that we can imagine) based upon the indescribable experiences that they had, I can’t wait to get to heaven. I’m just not in a hurry to leave here.

[onslowe]

No idea. Made about as much sense as the post I was trying to understand.

What does make me wonder is the question of whether one truly and honestly was trying to "understand" the post that Dawnmarie wrote, in which case other phrasing would have been appropriate and civil and expected; or, whether it was a very poor and transparent attack on another poster's choice of a word for ulterior and mocking motives. I know how I read it, and I think I know in what context it appeared to be written. Argue, discuss and ask honest questions… don't try to make a laughingstock out of another human being.

As for my humble post, read it please again and if you are still flummoxed, then, by all means look up the word 'sarcasm' in the dictionary. If still a problem for you, well….

Dense? Vy, I vould luff to! :)

[DougB]

What does make me wonder is the question of whether one truly and honestly was trying to "understand" the post that Dawnmarie wrote, in which case other phrasing would have been appropriate and civil and expected; or, whether it was a very poor and transparent attack on another poster's choice of a word for ulterior and mocking motives. I know how I read it, and I think I know in what context it appeared to be written. Argue, discuss and ask honest questions… don't try to make a laughingstock out of another human being.

As for my humble post, read it please again and if you are still flummoxed, then, by all means look up the word 'sarcasm' in the dictionary. If still a problem for you, well….

Dense? Vy, I vould luff to! :)

It was an honest question, but I will make sure to run all future posts by you for you to check for approval.

"a very poor and transparent attack on another's poster's choice of words for ulterior and mocking motives"? One should follow their own advice.

[CFrance]

Kudos! The ability to pick on the errors of others is an admirable trait, and I'm sure well motivated and intentioned. Lends a lot to the thread at the same time as well as promoting civility.

Maybe, just maybe, Dawnmarie was referring to 2 Corinthians 12. Oh, in the Bible, Epistles of St Paul….

What does make me wonder is the question of whether one truly and honestly was trying to "understand" the post that Dawnmarie wrote, in which case other phrasing would have been appropriate and civil and expected; or, whether it was a very poor and transparent attack on another poster's choice of a word for ulterior and mocking motives. I know how I read it, and I think I know in what context it appeared to be written. Argue, discuss and ask honest questions… don't try to make a laughingstock out of another human being.

As for my humble post, read it please again and if you are still flummoxed, then, by all means look up the word 'sarcasm' in the dictionary. If still a problem for you, well….

Dense? Vy, I vould luff to! :)

I find this post as confusing as your answer to DougB. He was questioning DawnMarie's contradictory statement about Paul writing about something he was not to write about, and you jumped all over him. And now you're jumping all over him again. You made a laughingstock (or tried to) out of him first, and now you accuse him of doing exactly what you just did. But IMO, he didn't I understood his post to be genuine, but not your sarcastic response to it.

There are many, many people who do not believe the Bible is inerrant, and just because one person said death experiences are not true because it says so in the Bible does not mean the rest of us have to buy that.

First DawnMarie says these experiences aren't true because of science. Then she says they aren't true because of the Bible. I don't see how she can make these blanket statements. She cannot say what other people have experienced.

[graciegirl]

Doug bee is ALWAYS kidding around.

Onslowe is not a kidder arounder. He is defending someone who although some may not agree with, believes in something that he feels needs defending.

I do too. I may not agree with Dawn Marie and her take on things. I respect her right to believe. She doesn't want to hurt or behead someone. She may want to debate and evangelize. We don't have to like what she says or like her, but we surely do have a right in this country to religion. EVEN if we are not religious.

I think you are reading Onslowe wrong. I sense calmness and kindness in him. I know that you two are good people. I think that you are misunderstanding each other.

As a Catholic, I was taught to not literally interpret the Bible. But somewhere I learned that a lot of sincere and good people do literally interpret the Bible. Someday, perhaps we will know, or perhaps we won't.

[CFrance]

Doug bee is ALWAYS kidding around.
As a Catholic, I was taught to not literally interpret the Bible. But somewhere I learned that a lot of sincere and good people do literally interpret the Bible. Someday, perhaps we will know, or perhaps we won't.

What I am objecting to is the sarcasm. I am also objecting to someone telling someone else they are wrong or what they believe is untrue when there is no proof one way or the other. (Goes back to post 9.)

[senior citizen]

Religion provides structure, whereas spirituality leads to contemplation & transcendence.........plus often just a "knowing" along with peace of mind & spirit. Been there......done that.

Now, for everyone, the existence of our soul, the existence of an afterlife, are always fascinating mysteries to ponder, except for those who just take it on faith or those who have returned to tell about it......this is why those books are so fascinating to read.

I know the soul lives on & often returns shortly after passing to comfort those it has left behind. Nothing spooky at all about it. Some folks are more sensitive to it than others......

Below the following explanation is a brief explanation of "religion" vs. "spirituality" which I found at the Georgetown University website.

Catholic Online has one of the clearest explanations of the "soul" that I have found yet.

SOUL:
(Greek - psyche ; Latin - anima ; French -ame ; German - Seele ).

"The question of the reality of the SOUL and its distinction from the body is among the most important problems of philosophy, for with it is bound up the doctrine of a future life.

Various theories as to the NATURE of the soul have claimed to be reconcilable with the tenet of immortality, but it is a sure instinct that leads us to suspect every attack on the substantiality or spirituality of the soul as an assault on the belief in existence after death.

The soul may be defined as the ultimate internal principle by which we think, feel, and will, and by which our bodies are animated.

The term "mind" usually denotes this principle as the subject of our conscious states, while "soul" denotes the source of our vegetative activities as well.

That our vital activities proceed from a principle capable of subsisting in itself, is the thesis of the substantiality of the soul: that this principle is not itself composite, extended, corporeal, or essentially and intrinsically dependent on the body, is the doctrine of spirituality.


If there be a LIFE after death, clearly the agent or subject of our vital activities must be capable of an existence separate from the body.

The belief in an animating principle in some sense distinct from the body is an almost inevitable inference from the observed facts of life.

Even uncivilized peoples arrive at the concept of the soul almost without reflection, certainly without any severe mental effort.

The mysteries of birth and death, the lapse of conscious life during sleep and in swooning, even the commonest operations of imagination and memory, which abstract a man from his bodily presence, even while awake.....all such facts invincibly suggest the existence of something besides the VISIBLE ORGANISM, internal to it but to a large extent independent of it, and leading a life of its own."

ABOVE IS FROM "CATHOLIC ONLINE"........(that last paragraph is very profound)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Below is a brief explanation of "religion" vs. "spirituality" which I found at the Georgetown University website.

From Georgetown University......

Definition: Religion

1. “a set of beliefs and practices related to the issue of what exists beyond the visible world, generally including the idea of the existence of a being, group of beings, an external principle or a transcendent spiritual entity” .

2. “set of beliefs, practices, and language that characterizes a community that is searching for transcendent meaning in a particular way, generally based upon belief in a deity”

3. religious beliefs – “formed within the context of practices and rituals shared by a group to provide a framework for connectedness to God”

4. “an organized system of practices and beliefs in which people engage … a platform for the expression of spirituality…”

5. “outward practice of a spiritual system of beliefs, values, codes of conduct, and rituals”

Definition: Spirituality

1. “the experience or expression of the sacred”

2. “…the search for transcendent meaning”

3. “individual search for meaning”

4. “the search for meaning in life events and a yearning for connectedness to the universe”

5. “a person’s experience of, or a belief in, a power apart from his or her own existence”

6. “a quality that goes beyond religious affiliation, that strives for inspiration, reverence, awe, meaning and purpose, even in those who do not believe in God. The spiritual dimension tries to be in harmony with the universe, strives for answers about the infinite, and comes essentially into focus in times of emotional stress, physical illness, loss, bereavement and death”

7. …"refers to a broad set of principles that transcend all religions. Spirituality is about the relationship between ourselves and something larger. That something can be the good of the community or the people who are served by your agency or school or with energies greater than ourselves. Spirituality means being in the right relationship with all that is. It is a stance of harmlessness toward all living beings and an understanding of their mutual interdependence."

Again, in ending............
Religion provides structure, whereas spirituality leads to contemplation & transcendence.........plus often just a "knowing" along with peace of mind & spirit.

[asianthree]

One has to wonder why no one's written a book about dying going to hell and coming back. Hummmmm

[graciegirl]

One has to wonder why no one's written a book about dying going to hell and coming back. Hummmmm


It could be called French Fries by Char Good.

I wonder a lot about a lot of things, try not to worry and do the best I can.

Good morning. It's a BEAUTIFUL day in The Villages.

[Nightengale212]

One has to wonder why no one's written a book about dying going to hell and coming back. Hummmmm

I have not read it but there is such a book titled 23 Minutes in Hell by Bill Wiese.

[quirky3]

I am the OP. I was focusing on the unusual circumstances of a book being published based on claims of truth, then recanting and having the book recalled as a result.

I think it was sad and somewhat shocking given the subject material. And I hoped that when it was published, the family actually thought it was true.

For people who would like to debate life after death, the literal truth of the bible, who is sincere and who is sarcastic, etc. please start a thread for that purpose....thank you!

[graciegirl]

I am the OP. I was focusing on the unusual circumstances of a book being published based on claims of truth, then recanting and having the book recalled as a result.

I think it was sad and somewhat shocking given the subject material. And I hoped that when it was published, the family actually thought it was true.

For people who would like to debate life after death, the literal truth of the bible, who is sincere and who is sarcastic, etc. please start a thread for that purpose....thank you!


We NEVER know where threads will go....................

[quirky3]

We NEVER know where threads will go....................

My point is that I appreciate when we all respect the Site Guidelines....

"Please keep comments to the specific topic that was started. If you have another comment that is off topic please do not hijack the thread but please start a new one."

[graciegirl]

We never know where threads may go
May not be to our liking
If this aggravates our soul
Perhaps we should try biking.

The folks who post, discuss and cuss
and live here in The Villages
never know from day to day
about the rapes and pillages

Done to a thread and oh the dreading
of moderators, what a headache
and oh the steam of OP's who scream
that isn't where I was heading

We hoped they'd stay and would not stray
from the premise we had posted
But some old gray, just wants to play
and then we are all toasted.

Some like to think, and some just stink
at keeping on the track of
what the gist was
where the grist was
and we'd like to smack'em.

[Barefoot]

"Please keep comments to the specific topic that was started. If you have another comment that is off topic please do not hijack the thread but please start a new one."

Threads often wander off topic, to related areas. That's the nature of a Forum.
No worries! The Mods will smack us if we wander too far afield.

[zonerboy]

If a person's belief leads them to promote what they think is true, are they wrong?

I guess it depends on just what they think is true.
ISIS thinks their actions are truly the will of Allah.
But I think they are wrong.

[onslowe]

Peace Doug B and CFrance.

[CFrance]

Peace Doug B and CFrance.
Yep. I agree.:agree:

[Villages PL]

I guess it depends on just what they think is true.
ISIS thinks their actions are truly the will of Allah.
But I think they are wrong.

What I had in mind was the collective activity on this thread, namely verbal promotion not physical violence.

[senior citizen]

One has to wonder why no one's written a book about dying going to hell and coming back. Hummmmm


I'm pretty sure that there has been such a book written.......
Actually, many years ago there was a t.v. show which mentioned the author's "journey". Yikes.

Just looked it up:

"23 Minutes In Hell: One Man's Story About What He Saw, Heard, and Felt in that Place of Torment" Paperback – January 30, 2006

by Bill Wiese (Author)

[Villages PL]

This was widely published today. Hopefully some good came of it anyway.

‘Boy Who Came Back From Heaven’ actually didn’t; books recalled - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/style-blog/wp/2015/01/15/boy-who-came-back-from-heaven-going-back-to-publisher/)

I finally got around to reading your link! What can one possibly say? It's a sad story for everyone involved.

What good do you imagine might come from it? Will the publicity teach people to stop buying this type of book?

Follow the money: In the last paragraph of your link it states that there was lots of proof that Alex didn't stand behind the contents of the book but no one in the industry wanted to stop it.

[Cisco Kid]

I am the OP. I was focusing on the unusual circumstances of a book being published based on claims of truth, then recanting and having the book recalled as a result.

I think it was sad and somewhat shocking given the subject material. And I hoped that when it was published, the family actually thought it was true.

For people who would like to debate life after death, the literal truth of the bible, who is sincere and who is sarcastic, etc. please start a thread for that purpose....thank you!


Look @ all the trouble you caused with your post.
BAD QUIRKY !!! BAD ;)

[eweissenbach]

Just checked in and was drawn to this thread. I read all the posts and am happily checking back out.

[Topspinmo]

I have plenty of out of body experiences! But when I wake up I realize I was Dreaming! Never thought About writing book about it and someone believing it or would pay money for it!

After 18 hour operation and 4 days on moraine I too thought I came back from the dead or was reborn again! And yes I am believer

[DAWN MARIE]

Paul WROTE about an experience, but said he was not able to WRITE about it. Uh, I think you lost me there?

Sorry I guess I wasn't clear and was rushing when I wrote this from a work computer.

What I was referring to was the fact that Paul wrote that he had an experience but was not at liberty to share it. He was beaten and stoned and whipped many times and left for dead at least once so we believe it was one of these times his spirit left his body.

In fact he said he was not permitted to share the experience with his readers. My point was if this man of God who wrote almost all of our New Testament by the Holy Spirit and was not permitted to speak about it, why should we believe these others?

[DAWN MARIE]

What does make me wonder is the question of whether one truly and honestly was trying to "understand" the post that Dawnmarie wrote, in which case other phrasing would have been appropriate and civil and expected; or, whether it was a very poor and transparent attack on another poster's choice of a word for ulterior and mocking motives. I know how I read it, and I think I know in what context it appeared to be written. Argue, discuss and ask honest questions… don't try to make a laughingstock out of another human being.



Well said and I was thinking the same. Like I just said in my previous posting I was in a hurry and at work. I mistakenly thought most would understand what I was trying to say but failed to realize that most are not well versed in Scripture and may not have any idea of what I was talking about. It would have been better if I was asked for clarification and which I would have readily given.

[DAWN MARIE]

First DawnMarie says these experiences aren't true because of science. Then she says they aren't true because of the Bible. I don't see how she can make these blanket statements. She cannot say what other people have experienced.

I did NOT say anything about them not being true because of Science. Would you like to explain that statement?

You brought up the fact that one of the writers of one of these books was a Neuro Surgeon. I wrote back my son who is a neuro Scientist and has a Ph.D would not agree with you. That is not the same thing as saying I was using Science. I was merely pointing out that being an educated person has no bearing on this subject. In fact i believe God quite often goes to the simple minded way before he goes to the smart educated ones. His ways are not our ways and how he picks his people and who he puts in charge are not necessarily who we would pick.

[graciegirl]

And I hope that I was clear on my value, which is, I believe that everyone has a right to their sincere religious beliefs and no one should belittle them unless those beliefs would be to harm or to behead some one who didn't agree with those beliefs. There are a lot of good people who posted on this thread.






OH WAIT....maybe the PTBARNUM was meant about the book...the thing Quirky was talking about. I bet that's it. I am sorry I yelled at you. You have to wonder if it were a real deal or someone making it up. The story and the whole deal to sell a book.