District to Pay for Unauthorized Tree Cutting

[rubicon]

I've never heard of anything more ridiculous than the rationale that everyone south of 466 should pay to repair the erosion!

The bridge is part of a city street. How a county built bridge can be built on private property is beyond me. And how a certain portion of homeowners should be responsible for paying for this repair is beyond me even more. It is a city street. It is used buy everyone in the Villages, regardless of where someone lives. It is also used by anyone who chooses to use Morse as their route to go somewhere -- residents and non-residents alike.

So why is only a certain group responsible for the fix? This entire matter defies logic and the same goes for paying for the trees.

:agree: Further it will set a precedent It seems that the residents in The Villages are the ones dumped on. The cart paths too narrow well let's ave the residents throw money in to widen them. Improper or no markings o cat path never installed let's get the residents to pay for them. trees down residents, erosion residents:cus:

[Mleeja]

:agree: Further it will set a precedent It seems that the residents in The Villages are the ones dumped on. The cart paths too narrow well let's ave the residents throw money in to widen them. Improper or no markings o cat path never installed let's get the residents to pay for them. trees down residents, erosion residents:cus:

If you lived in your "traditional" town or city, isn't this called property taxes? What's the difference?

[kstew43]

If you lived in your "traditional" town or city, isn't this called property taxes? What's the difference?

amenity fees and property taxes are two separate things.

[Mleeja]

Yes, i realize that amenity fees and property taxes are seperate things. My point is regardless of where you live, be it in The Villages or hooterville, USA, the residents of the area are going to be paying for repairs and maintenance of common areas and rightaways. Posters are saying the county should be paying for the repairs to the bridge stucture. Where does one think the county gets its funds? I see this as a distinction without a difference. The residence are going to pay.

[perrjojo]

If you lived in your "traditional" town or city, isn't this called property taxes? What's the difference?

:agree: you read my mind. That is eactly what I was thinking. Call it what you like but a community pays for its upkeep and ours is very well kept for very reasonable amenity fees, maintenance fees and taxes.

[Bonanza]

If you lived in your "traditional" town or city, isn't this called property taxes? What's the difference?

No, it isn't the same thing. How does this benefit non-golfers?

All residents shouldn't be paying for widening a cart path unless that was understood when you purchased there.

[Bonanza]

Yes, i realize that amenity fees and property taxes are seperate things. My point is regardless of where you live, be it in The Villages or hooterville, USA, the residents of the area are going to be paying for repairs and maintenance of common areas and rightaways. Posters are saying the county should be paying for the repairs to the bridge stucture. Where does one think the county gets its funds? I see this as a distinction without a difference. The residence are going to pay.

Tell me how it makes sense for only certain residents to be paying for erosion repair that is a county street on a lake that is privately owned???

Tell me how it makes sense for only certain residents to be paying for trees that were illegally cut down.

Morse Blvd. is a public roadway. It is NOT a common area. Either the county or the developer should be paying for the erosion repair -- NOT the residents!

By the way -- the county gets their taxes from everyone in the county, not just The Villages. Yes, there is a difference!

[LndLocked]

Tell me how it makes sense for only certain residents to be paying for erosion repair that is a county street on a lake that is privately owned???

Tell me how it makes sense for only certain residents to be paying for trees that were illegally cut down.

Morse Blvd. is a public roadway. It is NOT a common area. Either the county or the developer should be paying for the erosion repair -- NOT the residents!

By the way -- the county gets their taxes from everyone in the county, not just The Villages. Yes, there is a difference!

agreeance with every point!

[Mleeja]

Tell me how it makes sense for only certain residents to be paying for erosion repair that is a county street on a lake that is privately owned???

Tell me how it makes sense for only certain residents to be paying for trees that were illegally cut down.

Morse Blvd. is a public roadway. It is NOT a common area. Either the county or the developer should be paying for the erosion repair -- NOT the residents!

By the way --
Yes, there is a difference!

Who makes up the majority of Sumter County? The Villages... Maybe we should make this a toll bridge since vehicles from Orlando, Ocala, Daytona, Lake City, Tampa or Silver Lake all use this bridge when visiting The Villages. This would relieve the "certain residents" for having to pay for others.

The trees, which this topic is suppost to be about, I am in agreement. If the ones responsible for cutting down the trees can be found, (not only the one who cut down the tree, but the people who requested the trees be cut down) should be responsible for the cost of restoring the land. But in the meantime, the state is requiring the land be restored and that aint free... The money comes from somewhere and that would be the resident taxpayers south of 466. You don't have to like it, but get over it...that is just the way it is.

[iaudit]

Because essentially the areas north and south of 466 are governed differently because of the danged ********

I think if you went to the meeting which explains a CDD form of government that it would be clearer.

The VCCCD (North) and the SLCCD (South) were created by that "danged" developer, not by any lawsuit. I think if you went to the meeting which explains the Villages "CCD" form of government that it would be clearer.

[graciegirl]

Returning to discussion of trees removed.

Someone or someones either removed a number of protected live oaks themselves or hired someone to remove them from property that was not owned by them, but rather owned by the district.

The St John's River Authority leveled a fine for the illegal removal of the large live oak trees against the district.

Although some evidence strongly supports who might have gained from the tree removal no one can PROVE who directed and paid for the activity.

The district must pay for the damage.

If a park in Cincinnati was vandalized and swings broken and removed, then the cost of repair would go to Santa Claus?

I think not.

Same deal everywhere. No conspiracy that I can smell against the developer who I think is JUST WONDERFUL.

People need to stop making things up and placing blame where it doesn't belong. I think everyone who has read about this mess has a pretty good idea of who might have done it. Or at least narrowed the who down to four.

[perrjojo]

Returning to discussion of trees removed.

Someone or someones either removed a number of protected live oaks themselves or hired someone to remove them from property that was not owned by them, but rather owned by the district.

The St John's River Authority leveled a fine for the illegal removal of the large live oak trees against the district.

Although some evidence strongly supports who might have gained from the tree removal no one can PROVE who directed and paid for the activity.

The district must pay for the damage.

If a park in Cincinnati was vandalized and swings broken and removed, then the cost of repair would go to Santa Claus?

I think not.

Same deal everywhere. No conspiracy that I can smell against the developer who I think is JUST WONDERFUL.

People need to stop making things up and placing blame where it doesn't belong. I think everyone who has read about this mess has a pretty good idea of who might have done it. Or at least narrowed the who down to four.

Do you think whomever did this is enjoying the view? I think not. As they say Karma is a @*#%. I would be holding my breath every day wondering when the truth would come out but then again there are those with no conscience.

[Mleeja]

Could be the one responsible for cutting down the trees do not visit this site and ARE enjoying the view unaware of the furor they have caused....

[billethkid]

Is there a scenario where those who are enjoying the view were not the perpetrators?

[LndLocked]

Is there a scenario where those who are enjoying the view were not the perpetrators?

IMO ...... So extremely unlikely that it does not warrant consideration.

[Barefoot]

But in the meantime, the state is requiring the land be restored and that aint free... The money comes from somewhere and that would be the resident taxpayers south of 466. You don't have to like it, but get over it...that is just the way it is.

I assume you live north of CR 466.

[Mleeja]

I assume you live north of CR 466.


I guess this makes my opinion less? I can live in timbucto, but that is not going to change the outcome. Unless the parties responsible can be found guilty in court, the district will be footing the bill. Yell at me all you want...

[VT2TV]

A peron who I consider to be reliable told me on Saturday that apparently someone from Lake Miona Village had applied for a permit to cut the trees down, and was denied. Hmmmmm......I DO NOT know if this is true or not, but if it is, someone certainly should be able to put one and one together, right?????

[Barefoot]

The trees, which this The money comes from somewhere and that would be the resident taxpayers south of 466. You don't have to like it, but get over it...that is just the way it is.
I guess this makes my opinion less? I can live in timbucto, but that is not going to change the outcome. Unless the parties responsible can be found guilty in court, the district will be footing the bill. Yell at me all you want...

Of course it doesn't make your opinion less, and no-one is yelling at you.
I merely thought you might feel differently if you lived south of CR 466.

[VT2TV]

I guess this makes my opinion less? I can live in timbucto, but that is not going to change the outcome. Unless the parties responsible can be found guilty in court, the district will be footing the bill. Yell at me all you want...


This and the previous comments are pretty heartless-I happen to live in the areas who have to pay, but even if the situation was reversed, I would never tell anyone to just get over it. I hope I would be a lot more compassionate for my fellow Villagers.

[billethkid]

Duh!

I think in addition to all the suspicions and adding of 1 + 1, there should be some thought given to why the TV responded so quickly to pick up the tab on the infraction.

Usually there are many meetings to determine how to spend our money.
With reports of status, who said what and sometimes even why.
In this specific case TV responded very quickly with what they were going to do and how much it was going to cost with not much more info than that.

[graciegirl]

I think in addition to all the suspicions and adding of 1 + 1, there should be some thought given to why the TV responded so quickly to pick up the tab on the infraction.

Usually there are many meetings to determine how to spend our money.
With reports of status, who said what and sometimes even why.
In this specific case TV responded very quickly with what they were going to do and how much it was going to cost with not much more info than that.


I don't understand. If there was a fine, then paying it is the only solution, right?

What scenario could be different? The lots with the view were sold and had been sold for many years, so giving someone a clear view at this point couldn't profit the developers, right? How could The Morses gain from this tree cutting? I can't think what you are getting at, Bille.

[Polar Bear]

I think in addition to all the suspicions and adding of 1 + 1, there should be some thought given to why the TV responded so quickly to pick up the tab on the infraction...

This likely is just a case of a permit violation. The VCDD is the permittee regardless of who actually cut down the trees. The permittee pays up and then considers what further action to take.

[Challenger]

Contact your CDD/ elected reps and request strongly that the pressure be continued on this issue. Raise the reward to $10,000=$1000 from each obligated district.

It might be in the Developers best interest to join in the reward contribution.

[Bogie Shooter]

A peron who I consider to be reliable told me on Saturday that apparently someone from Lake Miona Village had applied for a permit to cut the trees down, and was denied. Hmmmmm......I DO NOT know if this is true or not, but if it is, someone certainly should be able to put one and one together, right?????

This looks like a rumor waiting to happen.
You heard from someone you consider reliable.......but you DO NOT know if it is true or not?????????
Just think - if there was a permit application, don't you think the dectective would look into that??

[janmcn]

The trees have been replaced at the cost of roughly $50,000, according to a new article in the on-line news.

[rubicon]

This likely is just a case of a permit violation. The VCDD is the permittee regardless of who actually cut down the trees. The permittee pays up and then considers what further action to take.

Hi Polar Bear:

The VCCDD is we. We paid for the party but never got invited.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by VT2TV https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/images/talkofthevillages/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/district-pay-unauthorized-tree-cutting-139639-post1044169/#post1044169)
A peron who I consider to be reliable told me on Saturday that apparently someone from Lake Miona Village had applied for a permit to cut the trees down, and was denied. Hmmmmm......I DO NOT know if this is true or not, but if it is, someone certainly should be able to put one and one together, right?????

This looks like a rumor waiting to happen.
You heard from someone you consider reliable.......but you DO NOT know if it is true or not?????????
Just think - if there was a permit application, don't you think the dectective would look into that??

I'm pretty sure they teach that in Basic Detective School. :popcorn:

[rubicon]

Originally Posted by VT2TV https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/images/talkofthevillages/buttons/viewpost.gif (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/district-pay-unauthorized-tree-cutting-139639-post1044169/#post1044169)
A peron who I consider to be reliable told me on Saturday that apparently someone from Lake Miona Village had applied for a permit to cut the trees down, and was denied. Hmmmmm......I DO NOT know if this is true or not, but if it is, someone certainly should be able to put one and one together, right?????



I'm pretty sure they teach that in Basic Detective School. :popcorn:

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth" "Sherlock Holmes The Sign Of The Four"

[Barefoot]

"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth" "Sherlock Holmes The Sign Of The Four"

Have you solved the mystery yet?
What do you think the solution is?
I think it would take a reward of over $10,000 to loosen some lips.

[manaboutown]

Have you solved the mystery yet?
What do you think the solution is?
I think it would take a reward of over $10,000 to loosen some lips.

Duh! Whose view(s) benefitted from the trees being cut down? Why not start there? How about "free golf for life - at the country clubs".

From the online news the CDD 5 officials are not giving up. Kudos to them!

[graciegirl]

Duh! Whose view(s) benefitted from the trees being cut down? Why not start there? How about "free golf for life - at the country clubs".

From the online news the CDD 5 officials are not giving up. Kudos to them!

I don't understand that part. Usually you and I are on the same page, but that puzzles me.

I was struck again by the fact that so many think the whole village of Lake Miona are " in on it". I think that a lot are as sure as those who don't live there as to who did it, like most of us are sure who did it, but we have so many loud motor sounds going on in our neighborhood with edgers and blowers and trimmers, unless you were looking at something, you wouldn't know a tree was being cut on. You have to go to sumterpa.com to look at the map to see that those trees were on a little Island behind the properties.

I am just thinking it unjust to blame other innocent people for covering up something they had no real knowledge of.

And the part I am reading on the online news of people blaming people for a cover-up who live in a larger home who they think are the "monied rich" is REALLY unfair.

[joldnol]

I don't understand that part. Usually you and I are on the same page, but that puzzles me.

I was struck again by the fact that so many think the whole village of Lake Miona are " in on it". I think that a lot are as sure as those who don't live there as to who did it, like most of us are sure who did it, but we have so many loud motor sounds going on in our neighborhood with edgers and blowers and trimmers, unless you were looking at something, you wouldn't know a tree was being cut on. You have to go to sumterpa.com to look at the map to see that those trees were on a little Island behind the properties.

I am just thinking it unjust to blame other innocent people for covering up something they had no real knowledge of.

And the part I am reading on the online news of people blaming people for a cover-up who live in a larger home who they think are the "monied rich" is REALLY unfair.

Someone on that street has knowledge of this act. While the whole village is not in it I find it unbelievable that that many people saw nothing. I thought the oaks must have been relatively small but after taking a ride thru there the other day I saw these trees were huge. If this was a ghetto thing folks would be all over the "don't snitch" ethos but because it's concerning the wealthiest of TV they get a pass.

[Bogie Shooter]

Someone on that street has knowledge of this act. While the whole village is not in it I find it unbelievable that that many people saw nothing. I thought the oaks must have been relatively small but after taking a ride thru there the other day I saw these trees were huge. If this was a ghetto thing folks would be all over the "don't snitch" ethos but because it's concerning the wealthiest of TV they get a pass.

That is just so much BS!

[joldnol]

That is just so much BS!

how so?

[Bogie Shooter]

how so?

Nobody's got a pass yet.

[joldnol]

The sheriff has dropped the investigation....seems to be a pass to me. 50 k is not chump change.

[Bogie Shooter]

The sheriff has dropped the investigation....seems to be a pass to me. 50 k is not chump change.

Where do you get your information? The Sheriff has exhausted all leads, the case has not been dropped and is still open.
This was in the DS, online news.

[graciegirl]

That is just so much BS!

I couldn't have said it better.

[villagetinker]

All, here is my suggestion, since we the people are going to be stuck with the bill, put the entire $50K into a reward. With that amount on the line, I am sure we will get results, then collect the 50K from the perps, and use that to reduce future VCDD bills. Personally, I would go for the repair cost AND the reward cost....

Now please do not shoot the messenger, but this whole mess has stirred up a lot of passion, and finger pointing, and I doubt that the existing $1000 reward is going to bring someone forward. The larger reward, with the stipulation that it leads to an arrest and conviction, may work. If that does not work, I have no idea, what to try next.

[manaboutown]

I don't understand that part. Usually you and I are on the same page, but that puzzles me.

I was struck again by the fact that so many think the whole village of Lake Miona are " in on it". I think that a lot are as sure as those who don't live there as to who did it, like most of us are sure who did it, but we have so many loud motor sounds going on in our neighborhood with edgers and blowers and trimmers, unless you were looking at something, you wouldn't know a tree was being cut on. You have to go to sumterpa.com to look at the map to see that those trees were on a little Island behind the properties.

I am just thinking it unjust to blame other innocent people for covering up something they had no real knowledge of.

And the part I am reading on the online news of people blaming people for a cover-up who live in a larger home who they think are the "monied rich" is REALLY unfair.

GG, what I was attempting to convey was that a meaningful reward needs to be offered. The 'golf for life at the CC's' was a feeble attempt at humor.

It seems to me likely that several folks were complicit in this; even if initiated by one person it was a cooperative project at minimum through post if not prior knowledge . Now who would risk doing such a thing other than those who would benefit from it?

I doubt some looney tune thought to himself, "Just for the heck of it I'll just go cut down that stand of oak trees to improve the view of the lake from those houses over there."

Furthermore, how could it possibly have gone unnoticed by those in the area, especially those whose lake views were obstructed?

[graciegirl]

GG, what I was attempting to convey was that a meaningful reward needs to be offered. The 'golf for life at the CC's' was a feeble attempt at humor.

It seems to me likely that several folks were complicit in this; even if initiated by one person it was a cooperative project at minimum through post if not prior knowledge . Now who would risk doing such a thing other than those who would benefit from it?

I doubt some looney tune thought to himself, "Just for the heck of it I'll just go cut down that stand of oak trees to improve the view of the lake from those houses over there."

Furthermore, how could it possibly have gone unnoticed by those in the area, especially those whose lake views were obstructed?

What you think seems valid to me and as best as I can figure out there is only a few homes whose lake views were obstructed. Now they are obstructed again.

[manaboutown]

What you think seems valid to me and as best as I can figure out there is only a few homes whose lake views were obstructed. Now they are obstructed again.

Good! If it was up to me I would have planted even larger trees and more of them right where the trees had been cut down.

[Polar Bear]

Good! If it was up to me I would have planted even larger trees and more of them right where the trees had been cut down.

I agree with your sentiment, but you would have found it very difficult and expensive...almost impossible...to plant trees larger than those cut down.

[manaboutown]

I agree with your sentiment, but you would have found it very difficult and expensive...almost impossible...to plant trees larger than those cut down.

I know. I was expressing my sentiment.

[Polar Bear]

I know. I was expressing my sentiment.

Totally agree. :)

[Challenger]

About two weeks since the last post here. Sometimes rumors are useful. Although I am not politically involved in TV or Sumter County, I find it not surprising that a rumor is circulating that the tree cutter is a person with " powerful political" ties.

Whoever , we need to keep the pressure on our elected reps to up the ante and increase the reward to at least $10,000 or more.

[janmcn]

About two weeks since the last post here. Sometimes rumors are useful. Although I am not politically involved in TV or Sumter County, I find it not surprising that a rumor is circulating that the tree cutter is a person with " powerful political" ties.

Whoever , we need to keep the pressure on our elected reps to up the ante and increase the reward to at least $10,000 or more.


Does the rumor offer any clue as to why a person with "powerful political" ties would want these trees removed?

[graciegirl]

Does the rumor offer any clue as to why a person with "powerful political" ties would want these trees removed?



There is a man running fo rsome local office who lives in that village but he doesn't live where the trees have gone and come back again.

[Challenger]

No info on who!

[JoMar]

301 Posts on a single run......is this some kind of record?

[NYGUY]

Does the rumor offer any clue as to why a person with "powerful political" ties would want these trees removed?

Rumors like this seem to never offer clues as to why or who commits crimes, just why they might be swept under the rug!!

[Cedwards38]

Seems to me that there would be a very small number of persons who would have derived a perceived benefit from the tree cutting. What type of investigation is being conducted? This really doesn't smell right to me. I'm not going to be unhappy today, but I do resent some pompous and gutless bonehead making us all pay the price!

[Warren Kiefer]

i have never seen where jane tutt "swept anything under the rug".


do you remember when janet stated she had no knowledge why, when and who erected the gate durning the night that separated the villages and stonecrest ???

[graciegirl]

Seems to me that there would be a very small number of persons who would have derived a perceived benefit from the tree cutting. What type of investigation is being conducted? This really doesn't smell right to me. I'm not going to be unhappy today, but I do resent some pompous and gutless bonehead making us all pay the price!





I know that I have said this on this thread at least three times but I will try again. They found the wood stacked behind four homes if I remember correctly. (Now I can't find the source of this, so I may have remembered this wrong) That would make me suspect that one or two or all of those homes would be involved in this. However, you can't charge someone with something without proof. AND you can investigate but you can't go too far without some probable cause. It's against the law. (I know this from watching NCIS) So we all may be danged sure who we think is the perps, but which or all is the problem.


AND daughter one is visiting and we were out by the pool a good share of yesterday and we couldn't have heard anything two streets over for a good share of the day because our lawn and four of our near neighbors were being cut, trimmed and blown. VERY NOISY.


You can't ask for people's personal records without a reason and I would have to guess that this deed was done with cash. I also want to remind everyone that it was on an island out from the property of the backyards adjacent to it by at least 100 yards, I am guessing.


The man running for county something lives there in that village but not RIGHT there on top of these homes. It is worth a drive through the Village and a look at the maps on sumterpa.com to visualize all this.


I imagine the folks who live close have some really good guesses but you can't acuse people without proof.


I don't live there. I live in a similar small village that is separated from others and I have a hearing loss. As I stated before, someone could be cutting trees apart in their backyard here four streets over and I couldn't see it or hear it. It isn't logical or nice to blame everyone in that village for knowing and not telling.

I cannot see how any of this could have benefited anyone other than the people who were trying to get visual access to the water of Lake Miona. Not the neighbors, not the developers, not the man running for office.

Now that makes four times I have said this, but heck, you can't shut up a person who has taught children for decades.

[Warren Kiefer]

Gracie -- you missed my point entirely. It has nothing to do with trees. It has to do with the fact that "we" pay Janet Tutt's salary, if that truly is the case (this is the first I've ever heard that), and that she reports to and takes orders from the developer, that is ridiculous and unfair. She is not working for us and not reporting to us. She is taking orders from someone else and telling the residents what someone else wants us to know -- or not know. Is this not a conflict?

We do pay her salary, she is hired by the VCCDD. The board members who serve on the VCCDD board are elected by a single landowner who is the only person having a vote. That landowner is the Developer. So anyway you cut it, the Developer has complete control the VCCDD board who has complete control of hiring Janet Tutt and we do in fact pay her salary. I cannot point out an obvious case where a conflict has occurred under Janet
Tutt's watch, but can offer a case where the person who previously held the position had the Village residents pay for a pond liner for a pond that was on the Developer owned Lopez golf course. An alert Villager successfully headed the effort to get the cost refunded.

[graciegirl]

I know that I have said this on this thread at least three times but I will try again. They found the wood stacked behind four homes if I remember correctly. That would make me suspect that one or two or all of those homes would be involved in this. However, you can't charge someone with something without proof. AND you can investigate but you can't go too far without some probable cause. It's against the law. (I know this from watching NCIS) So we all may be danged sure who we think is the perps, but which or all is the problem.


AND daughter one is visiting and we were out by the pool a good share of yesterday and we couldn't have heard anything two streets over for a good share of the day because our lawn and four of our near neighbors were being cut, trimmed and blown. VERY NOISY.


You can't ask for people's personal records without a reason and I would have to guess that this deed was done with cash. I also want to remind everyone that it was on an island out from the property of the backyards adjacent to it by at least 100 yards, I am guessing.


The man running for county something lives there in that village but not RIGHT there on top of these homes. It is worth a drive through the Village and a look at the maps on sumterpa.com to visualize all this.


I imagine the folks who live close have some really good guesses but you can't acuse people without proof.


I don't live there. I live in a similar small village that is separated from others and I have a hearing loss. As I stated before, someone could be cutting trees apart in their backyard here four streets over and I couldn't see it or hear it. It isn't logical or nice to blame everyone in that village for knowing and not telling.

I cannot see how any of this could have benefited anyone other than the people who were trying to get visual access to the water of Lake Miona. Not the neighbors, not the developers, not the man running for office.

Now that makes four times I have said this, but heck, you can't shut up a person who has taught children for decades.



Bump

Janet Tutt is an excellent administrator. The bill came to the CDD, the CDD paid the bill. I am sure if they can nail the perps they will.

[Warren Kiefer]

Seems to me that there would be a very small number of persons who would have derived a perceived benefit from the tree cutting. What type of investigation is being conducted? This really doesn't smell right to me. I'm not going to be unhappy today, but I do resent some pompous and gutless bonehead making us all pay the price!

We had better hope the investigators never have to investigate a serious crime. This should have been a slam dunk for the sheriff's office. The neighborhood residents should give a sworn deposition.

[Cedwards38]

(1) Motive is obvious, to change the view of a small number of homes. That narrows things down. Is there any other reason?

(2) You say the wood from the crime was stacked on the property of only four homes? I didn't know that. That leads one to believe that this may not have been the work of one homeowner, but quite possibly four. Otherwise why would the wood be stacked there? If someone stacks wood on my property without my consent or knowledge, then I'm going to ask questions, and/or object. If I don't ask questions or object, then that leads one to suspect me.

(3) Ask each of the gang of four the question, "Why is the wood on your property?" Don't accept the answer of "I don't know." If I discover cocaine on your property or a stolen Corvette in your garage, would I accept your response that you don't know why it is there? Is that wood from those trees, that belonged to the VCCD, not stolen property, and is that not a crime? Why do you have it?

(4) Charge someone with something and press it hard, and offer to plea bargain for information and this little conspiracy will unravel like a sweater when you pull a loose yarn. These people aren't going to jail. They are just going to have to pony up the money to pay the costs for their stupid and inconsiderate actions, and suffer the public embarassment for what they did, as well they should.

I've never spent one day in law enforcement or criminal investigation, and I've never watched NCIS. :icon_wink:, (I'm a "Law and Order" guy) so maybe I'm being naive, but I'm thinking somebody is dropping the ball on this, and that costs us all. And furthermore, I'm wondering why!

[graciegirl]

(1) Motive is obvious, to change the view of a small number of homes. That narrows things down. Is there any other reason?

(2) You say the wood from the crime was stacked on the property of only four homes? I didn't know that. That leads one to believe that this may not have been the work of one homeowner, but quite possibly four. Otherwise why would the wood be stacked there? If someone stacks wood on my property without my consent or knowledge, then I'm going to ask questions, and/or object. If I don't ask questions or object, then that leads one to suspect me.

(3) Ask each of the gang of four the question, "Why is the wood on your property?" Don't accept the answer of "I don't know." If I discover cocaine on your property or a stolen Corvette in your garage, would I accept your response that you don't know why it is there? Is that wood from those trees, that belonged to the VCCD, not stolen property, and is that not a crime? Why do you have it?

(4) Charge someone with something and press it hard, and offer to plea bargain for information and this little conspiracy will unravel like a sweater when you pull a loose yarn. These people aren't going to jail. They are just going to have to pony up the money to pay the costs for their stupid and inconsiderate actions, and suffer the public embarassment for what they did, as well they should.

I've never spent one day in law enforcement or criminal investigation, and I've never watched NCIS. :icon_wink:, (I'm a "Law and Order" guy) so maybe I'm being naive, but I'm thinking somebody is dropping the ball on this, and that costs us all. And furthermore, I'm wondering why!


Well, I am one of those who believe what Dr. Phil says; People who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.


But saying that, the law does protect innocent people from being harassed on a suspicion.


I cannot see who would gain anything by this being covered up, or the bill being paid. ( Again, I think I remember that the water authority that imposed the fine would add further charges if it weren't taken care of in a certain length of time.)


As I said previously, I thought I remembered reading that about the wood being stacked...I used to have a better memory. My disc is getting full.

[Challenger]

:clap2:(1) Motive is obvious, to change the view of a small number of homes. That narrows things down. Is there any other reason?

(2) You say the wood from the crime was stacked on the property of only four homes? I didn't know that. That leads one to believe that this may not have been the work of one homeowner, but quite possibly four. Otherwise why would the wood be stacked there? If someone stacks wood on my property without my consent or knowledge, then I'm going to ask questions, and/or object. If I don't ask questions or object, then that leads one to suspect me.

(3) Ask each of the gang of four the question, "Why is the wood on your property?" Don't accept the answer of "I don't know." If I discover cocaine on your property or a stolen Corvette in your garage, would I accept your response that you don't know why it is there? Is that wood from those trees, that belonged to the VCCD, not stolen property, and is that not a crime? Why do you have it?

(4) Charge someone with something and press it hard, and offer to plea bargain for information and this little conspiracy will unravel like a sweater when you pull a loose yarn. These people aren't going to jail. They are just going to have to pony up the money to pay the costs for their stupid and inconsiderate actions, and suffer the public embarassment for what they did, as well they should.

I've never spent one day in law enforcement or criminal investigation, and I've never watched NCIS. :icon_wink:, (I'm a "Law and Order" guy) so maybe I'm being naive, but I'm thinking somebody is dropping the ball on this, and that costs us all. And furthermore, I'm wondering why!

If the perp had admitted his"mistake" and paid a fine early on, I think that might have sufficed. Now , I believe that there is a good possibility of a criminal conspiracy amoung a group of neighbors and a more severe crime has emerged. Quite often people can not be convicted of a crime, but are tripped up by the conspiracy or obstruction that follows.

[Villageswimmer]

(1) Motive is obvious, to change the view of a small number of homes. That narrows things down. Is there any other reason?

(2) You say the wood from the crime was stacked on the property of only four homes? I didn't know that. That leads one to believe that this may not have been the work of one homeowner, but quite possibly four. Otherwise why would the wood be stacked there? If someone stacks wood on my property without my consent or knowledge, then I'm going to ask questions, and/or object. If I don't ask questions or object, then that leads one to suspect me.

(3) Ask each of the gang of four the question, "Why is the wood on your property?" Don't accept the answer of "I don't know." If I discover cocaine on your property or a stolen Corvette in your garage, would I accept your response that you don't know why it is there? Is that wood from those trees, that belonged to the VCCD, not stolen property, and is that not a crime? Why do you have it?

(4) Charge someone with something and press it hard, and offer to plea bargain for information and this little conspiracy will unravel like a sweater when you pull a loose yarn. These people aren't going to jail. They are just going to have to pony up the money to pay the costs for their stupid and inconsiderate actions, and suffer the public embarassment for what they did, as well they should.

I've never spent one day in law enforcement or criminal investigation, and I've never watched NCIS. :icon_wink:, (I'm a "Law and Order" guy) so maybe I'm being naive, but I'm thinking somebody is dropping the ball on this, and that costs us all. And furthermore, I'm wondering why!


I think your post makes good sense and agree completely. Is it possible that a real investigation never took place? Has Sumter sheriff ever made findings public or is it more convenient to continue to say the investigation continues and specifics can't be made public? Did TV think 50k wasn't worth the hassle...just pay it and be done and everyone would forget about it? Mystifying.

[Polar Bear]

Proof of the details of a crime...no matter how obvious circumstances may seem to the public...is not always easy to attain.

[Challenger]

Proof of the details of a crime...no matter how obvious circumstances may seem to the public...is not always easy to attain.

With a bigger reward, immunity, continued pressure from CDD boards and citizens, some rat will emerge. JMHO

[Polar Bear]

With a bigger reward, immunity, continued pressure from CDD boards and citizens, some rat will emerge. JMHO

Very possible. But even with a rat, that little issue of proof is still there.

[Challenger]

Very possible. But even with a rat, that little issue of proof is still there.

In the case of a "Rat" who was involved and came forward for cash and immunity, evidence would be his testimony.

[graciegirl]

We just drove down that street s-l-o-w-l-y and I'll eat my hat if I could figure out where the trees went missing and if any trees have been replaced. There are a lot of houses with a lot of trees in back of them that back on Lake Miona.

[Polar Bear]

In the case of a "Rat" who was involved and came forward for cash and immunity, evidence would be his testimony.

Evidence yes.

Proof? No.

[Challenger]

Evidence yes.

Proof? No.

Proof is what the Jury(Judge) says it is.

[Polar Bear]

Proof is what the Jury(Judge) says it is.

Absolutely. And rarely is it one person's testimony.

[graciegirl]

Absolutely. And rarely is it one person's testimony.



And by the time you get lawyers involved 50k will look like a pittance.

[Challenger]

And by the time you get lawyers involved 50k will look like a pittance.

Another consideration that should be giving the perp some nervous moments.

[janmcn]

According to a comment in the on-line news, the $50,000 figure is actually closer to $100,000. It cost $50,000 to replace the trees, according to published sources, but that figure doesn't include the $30,000 fine. Does anyone know if that is true?

Has anyone seen what amount was deducted from districts five through ten's budget to pay for this?

The districts were also assessed an inspection fee by swiftmud of about $5000 per year for a number of years, bringing the total to almost $100,000.

[rubicon]

This thread has reached 322 posts 323 if you include this one. so the issue is on a lot of people's minds and a lot of those people are just livid over the fact that someone had a party, they were not invited ,but go stuck with the bill and they rightly want to know why.

It is clear that the District takes command from The Villages of Lake Sumter, Inc (TVLSI) because TVLSI has the only voting rights and TVSLI controls Sumter county, its commissioners (Sumter One) which is a powerful incentive and warning to Sumter County Agencies. It is also the basis for the IRS bond issue

I am convinced that the District and suggestion from The Villages Lake Sumter, Inc. (Developer)said we don't want a lot of publicity here its not a good look for "Florida's Friendliest Town" pay the bill

[graciegirl]

According to a comment in the on-line news, the $50,000 figure is actually closer to $100,000. It cost $50,000 to replace the trees, according to published sources, but that figure doesn't include the $30,000 fine. Does anyone know if that is true?

Has anyone seen what amount was deducted from districts five through ten's budget to pay for this?

The districts were also assessed an inspection fee by swiftmud of about $5000 per year for a number of years, bringing the total to almost $100,000.



So, who exactly is to blame. who exactly is at fault, and how would YOU handle it? How could the district in any way financially benefit from this?


Stuff DOES happen. Nasty people bilk the general public all of the time. I think of all of the perfectly capable people that defraud welfare, and we pay and pay and pay and pay.

[CFrance]

I think Rubicon's take on this makes a lot of sense.

[billethkid]

Is it a given that it was one or more of the residents?
Is it possible one of the houses for sale the realtor(s) might have been involved?
Is it possible one or more of one of the developers organizations was "somehow" involved?

I became jaded and suspicious when I first heard about it, especially when TV stepped right up to the plate and very quickly announced it was paying for the result.....it just raises a question of why such a quick response with so many unknowns?

[graciegirl]

Is it a given that it was one or more of the residents?
Is it possible one of the houses for sale the realtor(s) might have been involved?
Is it possible one or more of one of the developers organizations was "somehow" involved?

I became jaded and suspicious when I first heard about it, especially when TV stepped right up to the plate and very quickly announced it was paying for the result.....it just raises a question of why such a quick response with so many unknowns?





Because the bill came to the district? From a government authority? Isn't the James River authority an offshoot of a federal green agency

I don't get it. I don't get it. I don't get it. How could the developers in any way benefit from any of this. This is small change to them. I/4 of the price of a designer home. It is no big whoopy do to have someone cut down trees as far as ruining the reputation of the villages. I think something spicy like sex on the square would be closer to that kind of bad publicity.

[manaboutown]

According to a comment in the on-line news, the $50,000 figure is actually closer to $100,000. It cost $50,000 to replace the trees, according to published sources, but that figure doesn't include the $30,000 fine. Does anyone know if that is true?

Has anyone seen what amount was deducted from districts five through ten's budget to pay for this?

The districts were also assessed an inspection fee by swiftmud of about $5000 per year for a number of years, bringing the total to almost $100,000.

Pretty expensive for some firewood gratuitously donated to four homeowners!

[bimmertl]

This thread meets the text book definition of "beating a dead horse".

[gomoho]

Gracie you are right "this is small change to the developer" and I think that is what people are saying - a small price to pay to cover up a problem - especially when the money is technically coming from the resident's pockets. The developer has nothing to gain by pursuing this, but a lot to lose from the potential bad publicity.

[graciegirl]

Gracie you are right "this is small change to the developer" and I think that is what people are saying - a small price to pay to cover up a problem - especially when the money is technically coming from the resident's pockets. The developer has nothing to gain by pursuing this, but a lot to lose from the potential bad publicity.


But here is where I am at a loss.

The Morses didn't cut the trees down. What advantage would that give to them? Those houses have been sold for ten/twelve years, there are no open lots anywhere around there.

Someone who lived here obviously did. It isn't a cry to heaven for vengeance crime that would make potential buyers cringe like a meth house or a house of ill repute or street gangs or people shooting at each other. Someone cut down some trees. That is what I am saying. It isn't going to get too many potential buyers knickers in a hitch to find that out.

I can't see that the motive of the developer would be to rush to cover THAT up, for pete's sake.

I think that the river authority leveled an infraction and the CDD fixed it. I think that is what happened. They fix where drunks knock down fences, and other bad people nasties. They have money set aside for that. OUR money, but ....it is our town.

[Barefoot]

I am convinced that the District and suggestion from The Villages Lake Sumter, Inc. (Developer)said we don't want a lot of publicity here its not a good look for "Florida's Friendliest Town" pay the bill
Hmmmm, very interesting theory.

[CFrance]

But here is where I am at a loss.

The Morses didn't cut the trees down. What advantage would that give to them? Those houses have been sold for ten/twelve years, there are no open lots anywhere around there.

Someone who lived here obviously did. It isn't a cry to heaven for vengeance crime that would make potential buyers cringe like a meth house or a house of ill repute or street gangs or people shooting at each other. Someone cut down some trees. That is what I am saying. It isn't going to get too many people's knickers in a hitch to find that out.
Anything--anything!--that brings one iota of negative publicity to an entity, be it corporate, political, or both, is to be avoided at all costs. You never know who is keeping score in a little black book hidden away somewhere, waiting for the right time to spring. It is just good practice to avoid this kind of publicity.

[graciegirl]

But here is where I am at a loss.

The Morses didn't cut the trees down. What advantage would that give to them? Those houses have been sold for ten/twelve years, there are no open lots anywhere around there.

Someone who lived here obviously did. It isn't a cry to heaven for vengeance crime that would make potential buyers cringe like a meth house or a house of ill repute or street gangs or people shooting at each other. Someone cut down some trees. That is what I am saying. It isn't going to get too many potential buyers knickers in a hitch to find that out.

I can't see that the motive of the developer would be to rush to cover THAT up, for pete's sake.




I think that the river authority leveled an infraction and the CDD fixed it. I think that is what happened. They fix where drunks knock down fences, and other bad people nasties. They have money set aside for that. OUR money, but ....it is our town.



Bump.

[redwitch]

Gracie, people having sex in public brings about a purient interest. It could even get people to visit to see just how sexy TV is. So, embarrassing but has the possibility of selling a house or two.

Selfish old folks mucking with the environment for their convenience draws nothing but negative publicity and an extremely ugly picture of TV residents. For those who think nature needs nurturing (and not just the serious tree hungers), this wanton act is a serious issue and enough to take TV off their short list of retirement considerations. Definitely something the developer had to have considered.

[gomoho]

I don't think anyone is saying cutting down the trees benefited the developer. The point is covering it up as quickly as possible before it becomes BIG NEWS that the residents are in fact paying for is the complaint benefits the developer.

[Cedwards38]

This thread meets the text book definition of "beating a dead horse".

It is running on a bit long, but frankly, I don't think this horse is dead until we find out which self serving person or persons did this and make them pay, rather than making those of us citizens who had nothing at all to do with the cutting of the trees pay. Those who did this would love for us to declare this horse's demise.

A violation was committed, and the District had an obligation to ensure that one would not be committed. Thus they were fined and had to pay to repair the violation. I don't see any other choice that the District would have. If they don't pay a levied fine in a timely manner then that fine gets increased, and they would then be denied the ability to be assigned protection of environmentally sensitive areas in the future. It's the district's responsibility to protect the protected environment. They didn't. They got fined.

Law enforcement, with the cooperation of the local prosecutor, could find out who was responsible, and the district, through legal means, could recover the cost of the fine and repair, and should. For the life of me, I don't see how the Developer or the Developer's marketing strategy could be considered a serious suspect, either in the cutting of the trees, or the inability to determine who cut the trees. I just don't think that wrongly cutting down some trees, as bad as it is, is going to stop the sale of new homes. If the Developer had the clout to stop this investigation, we would have never in the past heard about the sex on the squares or the cases of drunken vehicle violations, which in my opinion are far more detrimental to the community image.

I think we all know who the prime suspects are in this caper, and I'm at a loss to know why we can't pursue this from a law enforcement and legal standpoint, and provide a just solution, meaning the perpetrators pay and we as innocent and law abiding citizens of The Villages don't.

[graciegirl]

I don't think anyone is saying cutting down the trees benefited the developer. The point is covering it up as quickly as possible before it becomes BIG NEWS that the residents are in fact paying for is the complaint benefits the developer.



OH. I don't get exited about stuff like that and don't run around with people who do. I think it is tied in with either a person's philosophy, or their politics.


If the rule or law is that I cannot cut down a tree, I would not cut down a tree, but to me cutting down a tree is a venial sin, not a mortal sin.


Only old Catholics will understand that.

But I loathe sneaky rule breakers like those who cut down those trees. If it says you can't. YOU CAN'T. It ain't right or nice.

But repairing the damage doesn't seem like a sneaky thing to do. I don't know a person in my world who wouldn't move here because someone cut down a tree. I took a test last week. It said I was a Centrist. I had to look it up. It means a moderate. That means that hardly anyone in The Villages thinks like I do. I think I ain't right.

[outlaw]

It's only $50K, right? What's the big deal? Too much anguish for such a small amount.

[CFrance]

OH. I don't get exited about stuff like that and don't run around with people who do. I think it is tied in with either a person's philosophy, or their politics.


If the rule or law is that I cannot cut down a tree, I would not cut down a tree, but to me cutting down a tree is a venial sin, not a mortal sin.


Only old Catholics will understand that.

But I loathe sneaky rule breakers like those who cut down those trees. If it says you can't. YOU CAN'T. It ain't right or nice.

But repairing the damage doesn't seem like a sneaky thing to do. I don't know a person in my world who wouldn't move here because someone cut down a tree. I took a test last week. It said I was a Centrist. I had to look it up. It means a moderate. That means that hardly anyone in The Villages thinks like I do. I think I ain't right.
Gracie, you have had an interesting take on not breaking the rules vs. not going after rule breakers. And I can understand that on one level.

My take is a bit different. As long as people think they can get away with stuff like this (because of exactly the outcome--developer not wanting to take the time & effort or suffer the bad publicity to go after them more thoroughly), they will continue to pull stuff like this. It may be 50K here, 15K there, but it's coming out of the little people's pockets, and that pi$$e$ me off royally.

In the meantime, I will not lose sleep over it. But it just ain't right.

[Cedwards38]

It's only $50K, right? What's the big deal? Too much anguish for such a small amount.

$50K is not a small amount in my opinion. At least not to me. What could the District do with that $50 K (some list it as more like $100K) if we didn't have to spend it on this?

But it's more about right and wrong. I do not wish to pay for other person's transgressions, and if we just choose to let it go then injustice wins. And it will happen again somewhere else!

[Challenger]

It's only $50K, right? What's the big deal? Too much anguish for such a small amount.

This is much , much bigger than any monetary amount. Not finding the perp , leaves speculation about who is involved and can affect the reputations of people unfairly. It is a festering sore.

[outlaw]

This is much , much bigger than any monetary amount. Not finding the perp , leaves speculation about who is involved and can affect the reputations of people unfairly. It is a festering sore.

It's only a festering sore for those who fixate on it and those who care what they think.

[justjim]

Isn't it about time to move on regarding this tree cutting incident? Enough has been said IMHO.

[Challenger]

Isn't it about time to move on regarding this tree cutting incident? Enough has been said IMHO.

For those who have heard enough on the subject, move on! No one is making these posts mandatory reading for anyone. Those of us who think that very important principles are involved continue to keep the issue alive.:spoken:

[janmcn]

For those who have heard enough on the subject, move on! No one is making these posts mandatory reading for anyone. Those of us who think that very important principles are involved continue to keep the issue alive.:spoken:


Agree. Those that want to move on, no need to click on this thread. For those of us that want justice served, we never know when the next post is going to make us slap our head and say 'that's what happened' or 'that's why they did that' or 'now it all makes sense'.

[biker1]

Why do you think it is up to the developer to go after whoever did this? It seems like a criminal matter to me. It did not happen, as far as I know, on developer owned land.

Gracie, you have had an interesting take on not breaking the rules vs. not going after rule breakers. And I can understand that on one level.

My take is a bit different. As long as people think they can get away with stuff like this (because of exactly the outcome--developer not wanting to take the time & effort or suffer the bad publicity to go after them more thoroughly), they will continue to pull stuff like this. It may be 50K here, 15K there, but it's coming out of the little people's pockets, and that pi$$e$ me off royally.

In the meantime, I will not lose sleep over it. But it just ain't right.

[Chi-Town]

Remember whem the oak trees were cut down at Buena Vista and Old Mill Run to build the Edgewater Bungalows? That wide open expanse with the trees gave way to construction of villas. I would imagine that the people who backed up to there missed those trees.

[Polar Bear]

Why do you think it is up to the developer to go after whoever did this? It seems like a criminal matter to me. It did not happen, as far as I know, on developer owned land.
Good question, biker1. Such actions are permit violations...state issues that are up to the state to pursue.

[Barefoot]

Isn't it about time to move on regarding this tree cutting incident? Enough has been said IMHO.

With over 23,000 views of this thread, and 16 posts today, it seems there is still a lot of interest in this topic.

Those that want to move on, no need to click on this thread. For those of us that want justice served, we never know when the next post is going to make us slap our head and say 'that's what happened' or 'that's why they did that' or 'now it all makes sense'.

[Barefoot]

How could the developers in any way benefit from any of this. This is small change to them.

The developer has nothing to gain by pursuing this, but a lot to lose from the potential bad publicity.

Selfish old folks mucking with the environment for their convenience draws nothing but negative publicity and an extremely ugly picture of TV residents. For those who think nature needs nurturing (and not just the serious tree hungers), this wanton act is a serious issue and enough to take TV off their short list of retirement considerations. Definitely something the developer had to have considered.

I initially thought "what does the Developer have to gain" by getting this issue dealt with quickly; since houses in that area were sold many years ago. Now I can see that the specter of bad publicity could be a motivating factor in getting this issue quickly "put to bed".

[Polar Bear]

I initially thought "what does the Developer have to gain" by getting this issue dealt with quickly; since houses in that area were sold many years ago. Now I can see that the specter of bad publicity could be a motivating factor in getting this issue quickly "put to bed".
\\\

[Challenger]

Wonder what would happen if a tenacious investigative reported took an interest in this case? Maybe someone who did not think well about TV. Ummmmm

[CFrance]

Wonder what would happen if a tenacious investigative reported took an interest in this case? Maybe someone who did not think well about TV. Ummmmm
Remain calm, Gracie. Deep breaths.:icon_wink:

[manaboutown]

Wonder what would happen if a tenacious investigative reported took an interest in this case? Maybe someone who did not think well about TV. Ummmmm

Such as Lauren Ritchie, perhaps?

[chuckinca]

Maybe check out the bridge issue too.

.

[joldnol]

so much for those that called "BS" on my statement the wealthy get a pass.....I'm sure the Sheriff's Dept is working as hard as OJ to find the perps

[Cedwards38]

Well, I see we didn't solve the case overnight. :laugh:

[Bogie Shooter]

Such as Lauren Ritchie, perhaps?

The post said "reporter".

[billethkid]

Someone on that street has knowledge of this act. While the whole village is not in it I find it unbelievable that that many people saw nothing. I thought the oaks must have been relatively small but after taking a ride thru there the other day I saw these trees were huge. If this was a ghetto thing folks would be all over the "don't snitch" ethos but because it's concerning the wealthiest of TV they get a pass.

You are displaying a lack of knowledge about the residents in other villages that could buy and sell many there.

In addition it is very predjuicial.

And finally because I missed it the first time around......BS!:)

[Challenger]

There is something that those of us who care can do. Contact youur CDD commissioners and urge them to kepp the case alive . Up the reward to at least $10,000. We have been "robbed" of $100,00 or more by an arrogant resident. If this were another type of robbery from a public entity , it would rise to the level of a serious felony and public officials and police would be pressing hard to apprehend the theif.

Has someone been threatened or coerced to maintain silence? IMO there is some really bad stuff happening here.

[rubicon]

There is something that those of us who care can do. Contact youur CDD commissioners and urge them to kepp the case alive . Up the reward to at least $10,000. We have been "robbed" of $100,00 or more by an arrogant resident. If this were another type of robbery from a public entity , it would rise to the level of a serious felony and public officials and police would be pressing hard to apprehend the theif.

Has someone been threatened or coerced to maintain silence? IMO there is some really bad stuff happening here.

challenger well stated. It took awhile for this thread to load and for good cause. The suggestion to inundate the district with requests for results on this issue is sound and I would begin with "No justice, no peace:D

I wonder if when those trees dropped they made noise? I wonder if the saws used had silencers? I wonder if the people cutting down these trees had the ability the same as stealth fighter planes? I wonder if the transaction conducted to remove the trees was all verbal or written in invisible ink? I wonder if when becoming aware of the new vista those advantaged by it said quite fortuitous? I wonder if when the district reported it to the sheriff the sheriff said well do you want us to patrol Morse Blvd for speeders or catch crooks? And the District said sheriff, "you know our methods"?

I wonder and wonder? where is Colombo when you need him?

[k2at]

Why does the district not just post a $10,000 reward for the necessary information and pay the money in complete secrecy. Would be cheaper than paying $50,000 as I understand it will cost. Oh, and also charge the culprits for the cost of the reward.

[dirtbanker]

Why does the district not just post a $10,000 reward for the necessary information and pay the money in complete secrecy. Would be cheaper than paying $50,000 as I understand it will cost. Oh, and also charge the culprits for the cost of the reward.

Because $50K is nothing to the developer, especially when he can pass that cost on to you. While the developer is not having the individual person that cut the trees down pay the fine, he is having the group of people (that the person belongs to= residents) pay the fine.

[Cedwards38]

There is something that those of us who care can do. Contact youur CDD commissioners and urge them to kepp the case alive . Up the reward to at least $10,000. We have been "robbed" of $100,00 or more by an arrogant resident. If this were another type of robbery from a public entity , it would rise to the level of a serious felony and public officials and police would be pressing hard to apprehend the theif.

Has someone been threatened or coerced to maintain silence? IMO there is some really bad stuff happening here.

I agree Challenger. It's time to demand some action. This crime should not be that difficult to solve, and the resolution should be swift and punitive.

[redwitch]

My guess is that both the developer and the Sheriff have a pretty good idea who ordered the trees to be cut down but finding the necessary proof is another thing. My guess is it will come about from a disgruntled employee of XYZ Company reporting the owner, who will, in turn, name the homeowner, if anyone ever comes forward. Not the best evidentiary flow for a court. Sadly, I think we're stuck paying the fine and nothing further will occur.

[Villageswimmer]

I initially thought "what does the Developer have to gain" by getting this issue dealt with quickly; since houses in that area were sold many years ago. Now I can see that the specter of bad publicity could be a motivating factor in getting this issue quickly "put to bed".


Agree. We initially wondered why it all happened so quickly. Start with lowball estimate of damages, pay it quickly, move on...we've been had, folks. Any bad publicity has been minimized. Sad.

[sunnyatlast]

Because $50K is nothing to the developer, especially when he can pass that cost on to you. While the developer is not having the individual person that cut the trees down pay the fine, he is having the group of people (that the person belongs to= residents) pay the fine.

How does one know that "the developer" and/or the District don't have property insurance with coverage for tree theft to which they have or will submit a claim?

Obviously the trees are valuable, so wouldn't there be insurance for theft of them?

[Bogie Shooter]

Most entities as big as the "Developer" are self insured for trivial matters.

[Challenger]

My guess is that both the developer and the Sheriff have a pretty good idea who ordered the trees to be cut down but finding the necessary proof is another thing. My guess is it will come about from a disgruntled employee of XYZ Company reporting the owner, who will, in turn, name the homeowner, if anyone ever comes forward. Not the best evidentiary flow for a court. Sadly, I think we're stuck paying the fine and nothing further will occur.

I feel sure that you are correct.

Increase the reward. If it leads to the perp, then we can sue. If they live in one of the benefitted homes, they are obviously not judgement proof.

This is one case , at least for me , that recovery of the money is not the most important obective. Exposing to public scorn will be much greater punishment.

[Chi-Town]

I feel sure that you are correct.

Increase the reward. If it leads to the perp, then we can sue. If they live in one of the benefitted homes, they are obviously not judgement proof.

This is one case , at least for me , that recovery of the money is not the most important obective. Exposing to public scorn will be much greater punishment.

Kind of like The Scarlett Letter. Best to build the scaffold from the tainted timber.

[Challenger]

Kind of like The Scarlett Letter. Best to build the scaffold from the tainted timber.

I like the scaffold idea!!:rant-rave:b

[rubicon]

How does one know that "the developer" and/or the District don't have property insurance with coverage for tree theft to which they have or will submit a claim?

Obviously the trees are valuable, so wouldn't there be insurance for theft of them?

Hi sunnyatlast: as a career insurance guy I doubt the trees were covered under an insurance policy. the district/Developers insurance coverage for these tree were us

Personal Best Regards:

[downeaster]

Because $50K is nothing to the developer, especially when he can pass that cost on to you. While the developer is not having the individual person that cut the trees down pay the fine, he is having the group of people (that the person belongs to= residents) pay the fine.

The Developer is not passing any cost. The trees were on property under the control of The Southwest Water District. The $50,000 is not a fine. It is the cost of replacement. Under the terms of agreement it is the VCDD who is responsible for the replacement.

Why is the Developer always at fault?

[rubicon]

The Developer is not passing any cost. The trees were on property under the control of The Southwest Water District. The $50,000 is not a fine. It is the cost of replacement. Under the terms of agreement it is the VCDD who is responsible for the replacement.

Why is the Developer always at fault?

Because he has all the voting rights and has great influence with Southwest Water District and our loss is his gain because the publicity problem goes awayas quickly as our money:laugh:

[biker1]

The Developer has nothing to do with this.

Because $50K is nothing to the developer, especially when he can pass that cost on to you. While the developer is not having the individual person that cut the trees down pay the fine, he is having the group of people (that the person belongs to= residents) pay the fine.

[janmcn]

The Developer is not passing any cost. The trees were on property under the control of The Southwest Water District. The $50,000 is not a fine. It is the cost of replacement. Under the terms of agreement it is the VCDD who is responsible for the replacement.

Why is the Developer always at fault?


There was a $30,000 fine imposed on the VCDD by the Southwest Water District before it was determined that the cost to replace the trees would be $50,000.

[downeaster]

Because he has all the voting rights and has great influence with Southwest Water District and our loss is his gain because the publicity problem goes awayas quickly as our money:laugh:

I am not sure the publicity went away. It certainly didn't here. It really wasn't an earth shattering event. Had it been it would have attracted the attention of a story hungry an investigative reporter.

[dirtbanker]

The Developer is not passing any cost. The trees were on property under the control of The Southwest Water District. The $50,000 is not a fine. It is the cost of replacement. Under the terms of agreement it is the VCDD who is responsible for the replacement.

Why is the Developer always at fault?

I did not infer the developer was at fault, well at least that was not my intention. I was trying to explain a reason for lack of concern. Weather it is the VCDD or the Developer (same people different names?) either party will pass the costs on.

[joldnol]

You are displaying a lack of knowledge about the residents in other villages that could buy and sell many there.

In addition it is very predjuicial.

And finally because I missed it the first time around......BS!:)

In what way?

[Cedwards38]

I suspect there are some Villagers who are very nervous that we simply won't let this thread go. Good! If this crimes doesn't get solved it's a travesty.

[graciegirl]

I suspect there are some Villagers who are very nervous that we simply won't let this thread go. Good! If this crimes doesn't get solved it's a travesty.



My experience with ballsy people who do something they shouldn't is that they don't CARE that everyone is mad and upset and righteously indignant. They had the money to have the trees removed from property which was NOT theirs so that they could have a clear view OR advertise a clear view to sell it at a greater profit. Maybe they didn't know it was not allowed to remove trees from a preserve so you can see the lake. Maybe. I betcha that people living there in that community have a pretty good idea who is behind this, but without proof there is NOTHING they can do. All that amounts to is gossip at this point.

I think sooner or later some kid who worked for the tree cutter will have too many beers and tell about that night.......

Every village has this one or that who thinks they are the king of the world. How did they get so nasty and think they are so superior?

[Cedwards38]

You think the perps are reading it? I hadn't thought about that. But my experience with ballsy people who do something they shouldn't is that they don't CARE.

You may be right! Too bad this issue can't get a higher profile. Did you hear me Daily Sun, Orlando Sentinel, or any other entity that buys it's ink by the barrel?

How many days has it been without this crime being solved? I really admire the Sumter County Sheriff, but it's time for his office to step up and apply some pressure to get to the bottom of this. Sheriff, we're your loyal constituents and we need you to come through for us here or tell us why you haven't.

[Cedwards38]

My experience with ballsy people who do something they shouldn't is that they don't CARE. They had the money to have the trees removed from property which was NOT theirs so that they could have a clear view OR advertise a clear view to sell it at a greater profit. Maybe they didn't know it was not allowed to remove trees from a preserve so you can see the lake. Maybe. I betcha that people living there in that community have a pretty good idea who is behind this, but without proof there is NOTHING they can do. All that amounts to is gossip at this point.

I think sooner or later some kid who worked for the tree cutter will have too many beers and tell about that night.......

So true. The right combination of beer, reward, and immunity might blow the lid off this caper! :boom:

[graciegirl]

You may be right! Too bad this issue can't get a higher profile. Did you hear me Daily Sun, Orlando Sentinel, or any other entity that buys it's ink by the barrel?

How many days has it been without this crime being solved? I really admire the Sumter County Sheriff, but it's time for his office to step up and apply some pressure to get to the bottom of this. Sheriff, we're your loyal constituents and we need you to come through for us here or tell us why you haven't.



With all due respect, how would that help? And cutting trees down isn't a story. Even fifty thousand dollar tree replacement isn't a story. In Orlando along the pay road they paid millions and millions and millions and millions for those dumb looking palm trees. That is a story.


You could shine the light of the New York times on it and it still wouldn't cause anyone to 'fess up. I bet it was CASH. We have so many loud buzzing sounds with blowers and edgers and cutters...and those houses back to privacy.

[Challenger]

With all due respect, how would that help? And cutting trees down isn't a story. Even fifty thousand dollar tree replacement isn't a story. In Orlando along the pay road they paid millions and millions and millions and millions for those dumb looking palm trees. That is a story.


You could shine the light of the New York times on it and it still wouldn't cause anyone to 'fess up. I bet it was CASH. We have so many loud buzzing sounds with blowers and edgers and cutters...and those houses back to privacy.

All due respect Gracie - this story is not about trees. It is about a serious crime that is obviously being covered up. There is either a conspiracy of silence(another crime) or people are being coerced or threatened not to come forward(another crime). This is NOT small potatoes. IMHO

[graciegirl]

All due respect Gracie - this story is not about trees. It is about a serious crime that is obviously being covered up. There is either a conspiracy of silence(another crime) or people are being coerced or threatened not to come forward(another crime). This is NOT small potatoes. IMHO



You know that I respect you mightily. I have never disagreed with anything you have written here, but I don't get that at all.


But I could be wrong. I often am.

[Challenger]

You know that I respect you mightily. I have never disagreed with anything you have written here, but I don't get that at all.


But I could be wrong. I often am.

I also have been wrong once or twice-- We shall see!!!
Keep posting- you keep us all on our toes.:MOJE_whot:

[Polar Bear]

All due respect Gracie - this story is not about trees. It is about a serious crime that is obviously being covered up. There is either a conspiracy of silence(another crime) or people are being coerced or threatened not to come forward(another crime). This is NOT small potatoes. IMHO

I'm not dismissing this issue at all, but the specifics are not as obvious as you make it sound.

[Chi-Town]

All due respect Gracie - this story is not about trees. It is about a serious crime that is obviously being covered up. There is either a conspiracy of silence(another crime) or people are being coerced or threatened not to come forward(another crime). This is NOT small potatoes. IMHO
A serious crime? Conspiracies, coverups, coercion, and threats? FBI time.

[joldnol]

A serious crime? Conspiracies, coverups, coercion, and threats? FBI time.

50 k is serious....to some of you it may be chump change but to most of us it is not

[Challenger]

50 k is serious....to some of you it may be chump change but to most of us it is not

Cost of trees+fine+annual inspections = $100,000 or more

[Bogie Shooter]

You may be right! Too bad this issue can't get a higher profile. Did you hear me Daily Sun, Orlando Sentinel, or any other entity that buys it's ink by the barrel?

How many days has it been without this crime being solved? I really admire the Sumter County Sheriff, but it's time for his office to step up and apply some pressure to get to the bottom of this. Sheriff, we're your loyal constituents and we need you to come through for us here or tell us why you haven't.

Why not call and give them you advice?

Sheriff's Office Main Number

(352) 569-1600

Sheriff's Office Main (Villages Toll-Free)

(352) 728-6909

Villages District Office

(352) 689-4600

[CFrance]

Why not call and give them you advice?

Sheriff's Office Main Number

(352) 569-1600

Sheriff's Office Main (Villages Toll-Free)

(352) 728-6909

Villages District Office

(352) 689-4600
Might be better if you gave Cedwards the number of the Orlando paper. the sheriff and TV district office have sort of put this to bed.

[Bogie Shooter]

Might be better if you gave Cedwards the number of the Orlando paper. the sheriff and TV district office have sort of put this to bed.

An opinion? Or a fact?

[CFrance]

Definitely an opinion.

[Chi-Town]

Might be better if you gave Cedwards the number of the Orlando paper. the sheriff and TV district office have sort of put this to bed.
Or the number of the Northwest Mounties, Sherlock Holmes, Sam Spade, Sergeant Friday, Charlie Chan Boston Blackie, and Bulldog Drummond. Thanks to Searchin' by the Coasters for these suggestions.

[Cedwards38]

Speaking of who should be calling the Sheriff, if I were Ms. Tutt I'd be outraged! Maybe she is, but she should be calling the Sheriff regularly and monitoring the progress on this investigation, and reporting that progress to her citizens. I really don't understand the Daily Sun's apparent apathy on this issue as well.

[rubicon]

Why not call and give them you advice?

Sheriff's Office Main Number

(352) 569-1600

Sheriff's Office Main (Villages Toll-Free)

(352) 728-6909

Villages District Office

(352) 689-4600



Your simply not going to get them because they are too busy issuing tickets to motorist and cart drivers on Morse Blvd because that's were the revenue is:D And yes, I understand the safety aspect.

Perhaps an email to Lauren Ritchie?

Ahh I'm just feeding the thread

Actually this is a dead issue and actually it was an injustice to residents, most of whom are really nice people, but no one out there is listening and no one cares and the sad thing about it all is that the people responsible probably calculated that fact when they decided to do their dirty deed. People that brazen I have found double dare you to prove it. So the best you can do is not make it any easier for them and that at least is the benefit of this thread continuing.

I will say I am enjoying all of the comments

Personal Best Regards:

[Cedwards38]

Chump, sucker, fool, dupe, patsy? That's what I feel like. Choose any of them. Do you feel that way too?
The more I let it stew, the angrier I become with those who ignore this crime and seem to do little to solve it. We seem to have the original perpetrators, bad as they are, and those who enable them to not have to face the consequences of their actions, and I simply do not understand the latter! These are public servants who work for us, and we should demand accountability. OK, I'll admit there may be much I don't know here, but frankly I have a right to know it. So tell me!

[Challenger]

CDD comissioners-- Are you listening to your constituents here?

Up the ante- increase the reward and publically voice your displeasure with the appropriate public officials.

Has anyone heard a public statement from the various CDD boards on this issue?

[redwitch]

I can just imagine the lawsuits filed by the perpetrators. The $100,000 will be chump change compared to the lawsuit for libel, slander, false arrest to name a few potential causes of action. No way is the Sheriff, the developer or any other entity going to name anyone without some hard proof and that proof is going to be hard to come by.

Neighbors, and the guilty homeowner, are going to claim they thought the trees were being cut down by some government agency. They have no clue what neighbor did it or paid to have it done will be the response by all, even if they positively know who did it. Even with a lot of luck, proving this crime beyond a reasonable doubt will be difficult if the homeowner had even a modicum of common sense and some smarts. The odds are the folks who actually did the deed are going to keep quiet for fear of criminal charges.

Folks, let it go. Someone committed an obscenity and got away with it. No matter how much we would like to see the perpetrator(s) brought to justice, the odds are against it.

[virgind]

I think the people that benefited from the tree removal should be looked at a little closer. Maybe a set in at the address would work.We could have a pick nick. Even block the street. Lets face it that deal works just like the government of the US. You will never know. Money talks and BS walks. Bubba is alive and doing fine.

[Polar Bear]

...Maybe a set in at the address would work.We could have a pick nick. Even block the street...

At least if you did this, SOMEBODY would get arrested.

[Cedwards38]

I can just imagine the lawsuits filed by the perpetrators. The $100,000 will be chump change compared to the lawsuit for libel, slander, false arrest to name a few potential causes of action. No way is the Sheriff, the developer or any other entity going to name anyone without some hard proof and that proof is going to be hard to come by.

Neighbors, and the guilty homeowner, are going to claim they thought the trees were being cut down by some government agency. They have no clue what neighbor did it or paid to have it done will be the response by all, even if they positively know who did it. Even with a lot of luck, proving this crime beyond a reasonable doubt will be difficult if the homeowner had even a modicum of common sense and some smarts. The odds are the folks who actually did the deed are going to keep quiet for fear of criminal charges.

Folks, let it go. Someone committed an obscenity and got away with it. No matter how much we would like to see the perpetrator(s) brought to justice, the odds are against it.

Redwitch, by my observations you are always reasonable and nearly always right, and you certainly may be right about this, but isn't your take on this exactly what the original perps want the citizens of this community to do? All I want is to know the facts. If there is no evidence then so be it. But if wood is stacked in a yard, isn't it reasonable to demand to know why? And if it's not reasonable to know why, then tell me the rationale for that. If the body politic is paying the bill, then we have a right to know the facts and hear an explanation.

[Chi-Town]

I think the people that benefited from the tree removal should be looked at a little closer. Maybe a set in at the address would work.We could have a pick nick. Even block the street. Lets face it that deal works just like the government of the US. You will never know. Money talks and BS walks. Bubba is alive and doing fine.
You sound like just the person to lead such an endeavor.

[manaboutown]

It just feels like "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." Hamlet 1.4

It would be nice if whichever entities investigated this crime would open their books, so to speak, so the public would be informed as to the processes followed, what was done, who was interviewed, what they said, and so on. Some details would be nice, thank you very much!

All we got was a broad brush conclusory statement that it was looked into and the perps could not be identified. What?

[janmcn]

It just feels like "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." Hamlet 1.4

It would be nice if whichever entities investigated this crime would open their books, so to speak, so the public would be informed as to the processes followed, what was done, who was interviewed, what they said, and so on. Some details would be nice, thank you very much!

All we got was a broad brush conclusory statement that it was looked into and the perps could not be identified. What?


Exactly. Two questions should be answered; Is the Sumter County Sherriff's Office totally incompetent? If so, that should concern all residents. Or were they being asked to step down and look the other way. Also, this should be a concern to residents who pay their salary and now will pay the damages and fine.

[rubicon]

I can just imagine the lawsuits filed by the perpetrators. The $100,000 will be chump change compared to the lawsuit for libel, slander, false arrest to name a few potential causes of action. No way is the Sheriff, the developer or any other entity going to name anyone without some hard proof and that proof is going to be hard to come by.

Neighbors, and the guilty homeowner, are going to claim they thought the trees were being cut down by some government agency. They have no clue what neighbor did it or paid to have it done will be the response by all, even if they positively know who did it. Even with a lot of luck, proving this crime beyond a reasonable doubt will be difficult if the homeowner had even a modicum of common sense and some smarts. The odds are the folks who actually did the deed are going to keep quiet for fear of criminal charges.

Folks, let it go. Someone committed an obscenity and got away with it. No matter how much we would like to see the perpetrator(s) brought to justice, the odds are against it.

The defense to libel, slander (defamation) is the truth. If it is true that the trees cut down in the restricted area contains the same wood stacked behind someone's home , a home located at the location of the criminal act then do you not have a beginning. Is there not enough of a question to pursue this investigation? I seriously doubt any one of those people strongly suspected of this misdeed would follow up on a lawsuit. They may threatened one but if they proceed then they allow a free hand (opened the door) at investigating this incident and for a criminal investigation there is motive and opportunity. And, for a counter civil suit against the alleged perps there is a breach of a tort ,injury and damages.

[Chi-Town]

The defense to libel, slander (defamation) is the truth. If it is true that the trees cut down in the restricted area contains the same wood stacked behind someone's home , a home located at the location of the criminal act then do you not have a beginning. Is there not enough of a question to pursue this investigation? I seriously doubt any one of those people strongly suspected of this misdeed would follow up on a lawsuit. They may threatened one but if they proceed then they allow a free hand (opened the door) at investigating this incident and for a criminal investigation there is motive and opportunity. And, for a counter civil suit against the alleged perps there is a breach of a tort ,injury and damages.

We need Professor Irwin Corey to weigh in on this.[emoji6]

[Challenger]

"Folks let it go"
Why?

[maryanna630]

Why not get together and hire a private investigator? It shouldn't be that expensive and I would bet some answers would be found.

[Barefoot]

If it is true that the trees cut down in the restricted area contains the same wood stacked behind someone's home , a home located at the location of the criminal act then do you not have a beginning. Is there not enough of a question to pursue this investigation?

I'm sure that the Police would love to solve this crime.
I'm also sure that the Police have already explored all of the Obvious leads. They are being met with a conspiracy of silence.
The Police can suspect, like everyone else, but without proof, they can't arrest.
I hate the idea of the fine being paid out of our pockets, but I don't think picnics and sit ins and roadblocks will accomplish diddly.
It's frustrating. But at this stage of our life, one thing we've all probably learned is that life isn't always fair.
Sometimes the bad guys win.

[Challenger]

I'm sure that the Police would love to solve this crime.
I'm also sure that the Police have already explored all of the Obvious leads. They are being met with a conspiracy of silence.
The Police can suspect, like everyone else, but without proof, they can't arrest.
I hate the idea of the fine being paid out of our pockets, but I don't think picnics and sit ins and roadblocks will accomplish diddly.
It's frustrating. But at this stage of our life, one thing we've all probably learned is that life isn't always fair.
Sometimes the bad guys win.


Well maybe, but I haven't heard the Fat Lady sing yet? But I am a bit hard of hearing

[joldnol]

I'm sure that the Police would love to solve this crime.
I'm also sure that the Police have already explored all of the Obvious leads. They are being met with a conspiracy of silence.
The Police can suspect, like everyone else, but without proof, they can't arrest.
I hate the idea of the fine being paid out of our pockets, but I don't think picnics and sit ins and roadblocks will accomplish diddly.
It's frustrating. But at this stage of our life, one thing we've all probably learned is that life isn't always fair.
Sometimes the bad guys win.


especially if they have mucho dinero

[villagetinker]

In one of my previous posts I made some suggestions about increasing the reward. It appears this tree removal is not going to go away (and it should not), and it appears the only way this is going to be solved will be to raise the reward to a level that someone speaks up. Maybe. we the people paying for this should take up a collection to increase the reward? I have no idea how this would be organized, but it would be interesting to see how much would be raised and if it would make a difference.
If no one came forward to claim the increased reward, the money collected could be held for a future incident, or donated to a suitable charity.
What do you think?

[rubicon]

Actually I agree with barefoot because I have witnessed liars lie in court under oath and get away with it more times than I care to remember. But I learned the hard way it doesn't matter what is true it making those truths facts/evidence in a court of law.

We watched a President, a lawyer himself perjure himself. We watched a mother who killed her child in Florida walk free and continues to attempt to write a book for a big cash payoff. That is the reality and I recognize it is what we in America have become and worse yet people like this are rewarded

I personally continue to participate in this thread because of this and because of the same reasons many of you do and that's a demand for truth and the rule of law.

In this case its likely the perpetrators have already committed to their position and if so they lied and they will never recant those lies because of what followed this incident.

People can complain that this thread is done, beating a dead horse....but to me it is a clear example of the goodness, demand for fair play and demand for truthfulness and the rule of law of this, our generation

[Challenger]

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing"

See my signature

[redwitch]

I'd be willing to bet that the Sheriff knows exactly who did it but has no hard proof. Circumstantial evidence rarely wins in a court of law. Personally, I really don't want my tax dollars thrown away on a trial that will go nowhere. I also sincerely hope that the neighbors are totally ostracizing this homeowner. Bridgeport Lake Miona has some pretty close knit friendships. It would be nice if these folks had a block party every week and made sure the perpetrators were never invited. At least it would be a little justice.

As to opening the files to show what the Sheriff has or has not done to investigate this matter, not gonna happen and, personally, I wouldn't want it to. That's not how our justice works today. Imagine if a file had your name in it as a possible suspect but you're completely innocent. Would you want your name bandied around?

The reason I say let it go is simply because I doubt there will ever be enough proof to do anything. Knowing who did it is just not enough. Even knowing who was hired is not enough. The individuals who physically cut down the trees might be brought to trial. They could even name who hired them but, without a physical trail, it be comes a he said/he said. Again, hard to convict under those circumstances.

And, finally, while truth is always a defense against libel and slander, you must be able to prove what you said was true in a court of law. Good luck on proving this one.

And I am now going to return to my world, with a sincere wish that the folks who had those beautiful trees removed get a very swift, hard kick in their self-entitled behinds by Karma.

[Cedwards38]

Lots of persons whose opinions I greatly respect based on past posts on TOTV are suggesting that we forget this issue and move on. I am convinced that they are people of good will who simply believe that this fight is a loser and a waste of time. I get that. Maybe they are right, but I don't think we have to do that yet. At least I hope not. Whoever did this to us deserve for us to make them sweat, and to ultimately be caught and pay. I still believe that "right" can win if you fight hard enough and long enough. And if that is naive, then so be it.

I'm not asking that files be opened. I'm not asking that we go to court. I'm not asking for arrests. I'm not asking for sit ins or protests. I'm not asking anyone to name names. I'm not asking for any of these things......yet! I would simply like a rationale explanation from our Sheriff, our District Manager, the applicable Board of Supervisors, our local newspaper, or some other person in the know on the progress of what I believe should be an ongoing investigation. Just give me a reason other than "because no one is talking." Let me know, with details, that this is not a dead issue leaving only the citizens of The Villages en masse as the losers. Give me something other than "too bad, so just pay up and shut up."

[Bogie Shooter]

Lots of persons whose opinions I greatly respect based on past posts on TOTV are suggesting that we forget this issue and move on. I am convinced that they are people of good will who simply believe that this fight is a loser and a waste of time. I get that. Maybe they are right, but I don't think we have to do that yet. At least I hope not. Whoever did this to us deserve for us to make them sweat, and to ultimately be caught and pay. I still believe that "right" can win if you fight hard enough and long enough. And if that is naive, then so be it.

I'm not asking that files be opened. I'm not asking that we go to court. I'm not asking for arrests. I'm not asking for sit ins or protests. I'm not asking anyone to name names. I'm not asking for any of these things......yet! I would simply like a rationale explanation from our Sheriff, our District Manager, the applicable Board of Supervisors, our local newspaper, or some other person in the know on the progress of what I believe should be an ongoing investigation. Just give me a reason other than "because no one is talking." Let me know, with details, that this is not a dead issue leaving only the citizens of The Villages en masse as the losers. Give me something other than "too bad, so just pay up and shut up."

Do you think you will get that by posting the question here?
If you are soooooooo interested, why not make a few phone calls and set up a meeting with those you think have all the secrets?

[champion6]

Lots of persons whose opinions I greatly respect based on past posts on TOTV are suggesting that we forget this issue and move on. I am convinced that they are people of good will who simply believe that this fight is a loser and a waste of time. I get that. Maybe they are right, but I don't think we have to do that yet. At least I hope not. Whoever did this to us deserve for us to make them sweat, and to ultimately be caught and pay. I still believe that "right" can win if you fight hard enough and long enough. And if that is naive, then so be it.

I'm not asking that files be opened. I'm not asking that we go to court. I'm not asking for arrests. I'm not asking for sit ins or protests. I'm not asking anyone to name names. I'm not asking for any of these things......yet! I would simply like a rationale explanation from our Sheriff, our District Manager, the applicable Board of Supervisors, our local newspaper, or some other person in the know on the progress of what I believe should be an ongoing investigation. Just give me a reason other than "because no one is talking." Let me know, with details, that this is not a dead issue leaving only the citizens of The Villages en masse as the losers. Give me something other than "too bad, so just pay up and shut up."Very logical and well stated. This sounds like a question that should be asked at Welcome Wednesday: "Welcome Wednesday is a program designed to give residents the opportunity to learn about ongoing projects, address rumors and have their questions answered by District staff. Please join us each Wednesday at 11:00 a.m. at the District office located at 984 Old Mill Run to have the opportunity to hear first-hand about the latest rumors and meet District Board Supervisors from your CDD and others."

[CFrance]

I respect everyone's opinions on this subject except the ones laced with sarcasm.

[dbussone]

I respect everyone's opinions on this subject except the ones laced with sarcasm.

CF - I'm trying to figure out whether my post was laced with sarcasm or not. Oh, that's right, I don't even recallI if i posted on this thread. 👿

[CFrance]

CF - I'm trying to figure out whether my post was laced with sarcasm or not. Oh, that's right, I don't even recallI if i posted on this thread. 👿
Ha ha! No, I always appreciate your humor & wisdom, and your lack of memory somewhat matches my own.:D

I agree with upping the reward and catching the crims. I don't agree with the public having to contribute. TV and the sheriff should be taking care of that part of it. Not that it will happen, but that's my opinion.

[dbussone]

Ha ha! No, I always appreciate your humor & wisdom, and your lack of memory somewhat matches my own.:D

I agree with upping the reward and catching the crims. I don't agree with the public having to contribute. TV and the sheriff should be taking care of that part of it. Not that it will happen, but that's my opinion.

And we are sticking to it!

[Madelaine Amee]

I respect everyone's opinions on this subject except the ones laced with sarcasm.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit since its aim is to belittle or hurt someone, and to laugh at their expense; we associate the word 'cutting' with it.

.... and now back to this question of illegal tree cutting. I may be in the minority here, but I do not think that Ms. Tutt or the Developer have given up on this problem. I have heard that Ms. Tutt is like a dog with a bone and will shake it to death until the truth falls out!

[Cedwards38]

Just for the record, there is not one ounce of sarcasm intended in any of my posts on this thread, and if someone mistook any of them for sarcasm, then I offer my most humble apology. I'm not sure to whom you were referring, and I prefer to think that it was not me, but I just wanted you to know that every word I said is sincere.

I also agree that neither the Developer nor Ms. Tutt had anything to do with the infamous cutting of the trees.

[Cedwards38]

Do you think you will get that by posting the question here?
If you are soooooooo interested, why not make a few phone calls and set up a meeting with those you think have all the secrets?

I'm not sure if this helps by posting here or not, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't hurt and maybe someone with authority reads this stuff too. I am interested Bogie. In fact I am sooooooo interested that I've asked these questions. Why don't I set up a meeting? Because others are getting paid well to do those things for us, and I'm hoping they pursue the issue.

[Polar Bear]

...I may be in the minority here, but I do not think that Ms. Tutt or the Developer have given up on this problem. I have heard that Ms. Tutt is like a dog with a bone and will shake it to death until the truth falls out!

You may be in the minority, but you are definitely not alone. I wholeheartedly agree.

[Buckeye Bob]

Agree. We initially wondered why it all happened so quickly. Start with lowball estimate of damages, pay it quickly, move on...we've been had, folks. Any bad publicity has been minimized. Sad.

Unfortunately, alot of residents are probably of the mindset that if there isn't any increase in my amenity/maintenance fees, I don't care. There is no such thing as a free lunch and somewhere along the way, we're all paying for it. I would rather have a little "bad press" than allow things like this to be swept under the rug. What will it be next time? :posting:

[rubicon]

I'd be willing to bet that the Sheriff knows exactly who did it but has no hard proof. Circumstantial evidence rarely wins in a court of law. Personally, I really don't want my tax dollars thrown away on a trial that will go nowhere. I also sincerely hope that the neighbors are totally ostracizing this homeowner. Bridgeport Lake Miona has some pretty close knit friendships. It would be nice if these folks had a block party every week and made sure the perpetrators were never invited. At least it would be a little justice.

As to opening the files to show what the Sheriff has or has not done to investigate this matter, not gonna happen and, personally, I wouldn't want it to. That's not how our justice works today. Imagine if a file had your name in it as a possible suspect but you're completely innocent. Would you want your name bandied around?

The reason I say let it go is simply because I doubt there will ever be enough proof to do anything. Knowing who did it is just not enough. Even knowing who was hired is not enough. The individuals who physically cut down the trees might be brought to trial. They could even name who hired them but, without a physical trail, it be comes a he said/he said. Again, hard to convict under those circumstances.

And, finally, while truth is always a defense against libel and slander, you must be able to prove what you said was true in a court of law. Good luck on proving this one.

And I am now going to return to my world, with a sincere wish that the folks who had those beautiful trees removed get a very swift, hard kick in their self-entitled behinds by Karma.

redwitch: It would be hard to argue against you except for the part of " even if they knew who cut down the trees...." because by knowing who did cut those trees marks them for the dirty deed and the responsibility and I doubt they would set back and take the blame alone and especially the restitution Its possible the homeowners known as the " interested parties" could have cut the trees themselves

We may not solve the mystery but responding to this thread is at least good therapy:D

[CFrance]

Without reading back through all the posts, I am wondering if the trees have been replaced yet, and if so, were they put back in the original spots, covering up the homeowners' views? I certainly hope so.

[Chi-Town]

Without reading back through all the posts, I am wondering if the trees have been replaced yet, and if so, were they put back in the original spots, covering up the homeowners' views? I certainly hope so.
I don't think the trees are being replaced with mature ones. Probably about the size of a reforestation tree. But they grow like crazy. In fact they may be 50 feet tall by the end of this thread.

[downeaster]

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit since its aim is to belittle or hurt someone, and to laugh at their expense; we associate the word 'cutting' with it.

.... and now back to this question of illegal tree cutting. I may be in the minority here, but I do not think that Ms. Tutt or the Developer have given up on this problem. I have heard that Ms. Tutt is like a dog with a bone and will shake it to death until the truth falls out!

You may be in the minority, but you are definitely not alone. I wholeheartedly agree.

Add me to the "minority" side. I also don't believe the Developer is using any influence, he may or may not have, to cover this up.

[Bogie Shooter]

I don't think the trees are being replaced with mature ones. Probably about the size of a reforestation tree. But they grow like crazy. In fact they may be 50 feet tall by the end of this thread.

:1rotfl::1rotfl:

[Barefoot]

I don't think the trees are being replaced with mature ones. Probably about the size of a reforestation tree. But they grow like crazy. In fact they may be 50 feet tall by the end of this thread.

Post #435 wins my vote for best post. :eclipsee_gold_cup:

[Boomer]

I don't think the trees are being replaced with mature ones. Probably about the size of a reforestation tree. But they grow like crazy. In fact they may be 50 feet tall by the end of this thread.


Chi-Town, thanks for the morning laugh. You have perfect timing, too. :) ......

Where oh where is Carl Hiaasen when we need him.......

I would be happy to offer him a working title.........Treed

[graciegirl]

Chi-Town, thanks for the morning laugh. You have perfect timing, too. :) ......

Where oh where is Carl Hiaasen when we need him.......

I would be happy to offer him a working title.........Treed



Hi there Boom.


Treed it is!

[Cedwards38]

Unfortunately, alot of residents are probably of the mindset that if there isn't any increase in my amenity/maintenance fees, I don't care. There is no such thing as a free lunch and somewhere along the way, we're all paying for it. I would rather have a little "bad press" than allow things like this to be swept under the rug. What will it be next time? :posting:

Good point. Who is to say what we could do with that $100K to improve our community rather than spend it to repair the misdeeds of the Tree Cutting Scofflaws! I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why this has to be!:shrug:

[Polar Bear]

I think a lot of people in this thread are accused of not caring when they really just don't think there is a dark, hidden cover-up conspiracy. As has been said many times before, seeing what appears to be an obvious solution to a crime and proving those allegations are two totally different things.

I definitely care, but I also like to give community leaders and law enforcement the benefit of the doubt...within reason of course...that they're doing the best they can.

[graciegirl]

I think a lot of people in this thread are accused of not caring when they really just don't think there is a dark, hidden cover-up conspiracy. As has been said many times before, seeing what appears to be an obvious solution to a crime and proving those allegations are two totally different things.

I definitely care, but I also like to give community leaders and law enforcement the benefit of the doubt...within reason of course...that they're doing the best they can.



That is exactly how I see it too.

[ricthemic]

I think a lot of people in this thread are accused of not caring when they really just don't think there is a dark, hidden cover-up conspiracy. As has been said many times before, seeing what appears to be an obvious solution to a crime and proving those allegations are two totally different things.

I definitely care, but I also like to give community leaders and law enforcement the benefit of the doubt...within reason of course...that they're doing the best they can.

So what are they doing?

[Barefoot]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why this has to be!
I'd be willing to bet that the Sheriff knows exactly who did it but has no hard proof.

Redwitch has the answer as to "why this has to be". I think more than a few people know the identity of the culprits who arranged for the tree massacre. We all find it extremely frustrating. But if it can't be proven, they can't be charged.

[obxgal]

I think if they just billed that district for the deed, then maybe someone would possibly spill the beans.

[Polar Bear]

So what are they doing?

My guess would be...their job.

[manaboutown]

It seems to me the primary potential suspects are few in number, those who in some manner might benefit from the trees being cut down.

Could a civil action be brought by the district to recover its costs (fine(s), tree replacement, overhead, and so on) incurred due to the commission of any tortious act(s)? Plus, the public has had to pay for the time spent by law enforcement and CDD management on this matter, time which might have been spent on more productive endeavors.

The burden of proof for a civil action is normally less than for a crime - the preponderance of the evidence rather than beyond a reasonable doubt or whatever it may be in Florida.

[Bogie Shooter]

So what are they doing?

Why don't you call and ask them?

[mulligan]

This seems, from the outside looking in, a breach of the district's fiduciary responsibility to the owners. Perhaps a query at the attorney general's office is in order.

[graciegirl]

This seems, from the outside looking in, a breach of the district's fiduciary responsibility to the owners. Perhaps a query at the attorney general's office is in order.



Mulligan. I am surprised that you would say that.

The district was fined by an outside authority. Should they not pay the bill?

The district restored the trees. Are you suggesting they made money on it?

I honestly don't understand.

This is all originating from the St. John's or is it St. James River authority that is some agency protecting the wetlands and preserves. The district owns a bunch of wetlands and preserves. You aren't allowed to mess with them.

They will fine you. I don't see how paying the fine and restoring the trees is smarmy. You are just obeying the law.

[dbussone]

Mulligan. I am surprised that you would say that.

The district was fined by an outside authority. Should they not pay the bill?

The district restored the trees. Are you suggesting they made money on it?

I honestly don't understand.

This is all originating from the St. John's or is it St. James River authority that is some agency protecting the wetlands and preserves. The district owns a bunch of wetlands and preserves. You aren't allowed to mess with them.

They will fine you. I don't see how paying the fine and restoring the trees is smarmy. You are just obeying the law.

It would be far worse and far more expensive if the district did not do what it is required to do. You are on point Gracie.

[tuccillo]

I suspect there isn't any evidence at all.

It seems to me the primary potential suspects are few in number, those who in some manner might benefit from the trees being cut down.

Could a civil action be brought by the district to recover its costs (fine(s), tree replacement, overhead, and so on) incurred due to the commission of any tortious act(s)? Plus, the public has had to pay for the time spent by law enforcement and CDD management on this matter, time which might have been spent on more productive endeavors.

The burden of proof for a civil action is normally less than for a crime - the preponderance of the evidence rather than beyond a reasonable doubt or whatever it may be in Florida.

[chuckinca]

. . .

This is all originating from the St. John's or is it St. James River authority that is some agency protecting the wetlands and preserves. The district owns a bunch of wetlands and preserves. You aren't allowed to mess with them.

They will fine you. I don't see how paying the fine and restoring the trees is smarmy. You are just obeying the law.


Website of the St. Johns River Water Management District (http://floridaswater.com/)


.

[janmcn]

Sumter County is in the Southwest Florida Water Management District not St John's.

[graciegirl]

http://www.storagenewsletter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/St.-Johns-River-Water-Management-District.jpg

[graciegirl]

Agriculture (http://www.swfwmd.state.fl.us/agriculture/) → Wetlands and Permitting Wetlands and Permitting


View the Environmental Resource Permit (ERP) (http://www.swfwmd.state.fl.us/permits/erp/) page for more information and links to parts A through D of the Permit Information Manual.
View or download the Environmental Resource Permit Information Manual, Part B – Basis of Review (http://www.swfwmd.state.fl.us/rules/files/erp_basis_of_review.pdf) http://www.swfwmd.state.fl.us/img/pdficon.gif
To request a print version of the manual or for more permitting information, contact your regional regulation department (http://www.swfwmd.state.fl.us/permits/contact/).

It is the intent of the District Governing Board that environmental criteria be implemented in a manner that achieves a goal of no net loss of wetlands or other surface water functions (unless otherwise exempted by statute or rule).
(Condensed and modified from Environmental Resource Permit Information Manual, Part B – Basis of Review, Chapter Three – Environmental)
Wetlands serve as spawning, nursery and feeding habitats for many species of fish and wildlife, and they often provide important flood storage and water quality functions. Not all wetlands or other surface waters provide all of these functions nor do they provide them to the same extent. A wide array of biological, physical and chemical factors affect the functioning of any wetland or other surface water community. Maintenance of water quality standards in applicable wetlands and other surface waters is critical to their ability to provide many of these ecological functions.
Permits are typically required for the construction, alteration, operation, maintenance, abandonment and removal of systems to conserve the beneficial functions of these important communities and require that reasonable assurances are met.
Though some specific, limited activities in wetlands may be part of normal agricultural operations (as described in industry specific best management practice manuals), some activities conducted in wetlands may require some form of prior authorization from the District. Prior to conducting any operations in wetland areas, landowners are strongly encouraged to contact their local service office Ag Team (http://www.swfwmd.state.fl.us/agriculture/agswm.html) for permitting guidance and assistance

[dewilson58]

Have we answered the OP's question yet???

[Cedwards38]

I suspect there isn't any evidence at all.

Maybe not, but riddle me this:

If someone steals a car, and the tires from that car are found in my garage, is that not evidence enough to make me explain how they got there? Will you accept my answer if I say, "I don't know" or will you make me explain because it's my garage?

Circumstantial? Yes. Damning? For sure. Troubling? Without question. Worth pursuing? I certainly think so. Is that enough to charge someone for something? Maybe.

If someone illegally cuts down trees, and the wood from those trees is stacked in my yard, will you ask me how it got there? Will you accept my answer if I say, "I don't know" or will you make me explain because it's my yard?

Is that what happened in this tree cutting case?

[Bogie Shooter]

Have we answered the OP's question yet???

Many times over.

[Polar Bear]

Many times over.

Yep.

[dewilson58]

Many times over.

Oh Good. With +450 posts I was starting to lose faith in ToTV.

[Villageswimmer]

Maybe not, but riddle me this:

If someone steals a car, and the tires from that car are found in my garage, is that not evidence enough to make me explain how they got there? Will you accept my answer if I say, "I don't know" or will you make me explain because it's my garage?

Circumstantial? Yes. Damning? For sure. Troubling? Without question. Worth pursuing? I certainly think so. Is that enough to charge someone for something? Maybe.

If someone illegally cuts down trees, and the wood from those trees is stacked in my yard, will you ask me how it got there? Will you accept my answer if I say, "I don't know" or will you make me explain because it's my yard?



Is that what happened in this tree cutting case?


Agree. At the very least, sworn depositions would be taken. Maybe this was done. We don't know if a real investigation actually took place. Too many unknowns. Is this fair to those forced to pay?

[twoplanekid]

If you have a question to ask, I would suggest that you attend the next Welcome Wednesday at 11 A. M. in the District office at Lake Sumter. As representatives from all areas of our local government including law enforcement will be attendance, it’s a great place to start. I was impressed with the people in attendance, the presentations given and the amount of time given for questions.

Ask questions and let your feelings on this matter be known at this meeting.

[graciegirl]

Agree. At the very least, sworn depositions would be taken. Maybe this was done. We don't know if a real investigation actually took place. Too many unknowns. Is this fair to those forced to pay?



Most people would see no reason to think that law enforcement didn't follow all procedures in gaining information. All the laws of the land protect all of us from illegal search. It simply looks to me like not enough evidence to convict.

But I think sooner or later we will find out what landscaper was hired to do this.

[tuccillo]

I wasn't there during the investigation so I clearly don't know what happened. However, you can't force someone to talk. You are under no obligation to talk to investigators and you have the right to not incriminate yourself. I believe the most likely turn of events is that nobody has admitted anything, therefore, there is no evidence to act upon. I understand the cut down trees were not transported (i.e. they were left in place). It isn't as if the wood was stacked in someone's yard.

Maybe not, but riddle me this:

If someone steals a car, and the tires from that car are found in my garage, is that not evidence enough to make me explain how they got there? Will you accept my answer if I say, "I don't know" or will you make me explain because it's my garage?

Circumstantial? Yes. Damning? For sure. Troubling? Without question. Worth pursuing? I certainly think so. Is that enough to charge someone for something? Maybe.

If someone illegally cuts down trees, and the wood from those trees is stacked in my yard, will you ask me how it got there? Will you accept my answer if I say, "I don't know" or will you make me explain because it's my yard?

Is that what happened in this tree cutting case?

[handyman]

Most people would see no reason to think that law enforcement didn't follow all procedures in gaining information. All the laws of the land protect all of us from illegal search. It simply looks to me like not enough evidence to convict.

But I think sooner or later we will find out what landscaper was hired to do this.

It is not a matter of who the landscaper is,but who hired them,They are the guilty party !

[Polar Bear]

It is not a matter of who the landscaper is,but who hired them,they are the guilty party !

It would likely be both. Any legititmate landscaping business would know whether such significant work was properly permitted or not.

[Bogie Shooter]

If you have a question to ask, I would suggest that you attend the next Welcome Wednesday at 11 A. M. in the District office at Lake Sumter. As representatives from all areas of our local government including law enforcement will be attendance, it’s a great place to start. I was impressed with the people in attendance, the presentations given and the amount of time given for questions.

Ask questions and let your feelings on this matter be known at this meeting.

That will be difficult for some these posters, can't hide behind name as on TOTV.

[Barefoot]

If you have a question to ask, I would suggest that you attend the next Welcome Wednesday at 11 A. M. in the District office at Lake Sumter. As representatives from all areas of our local government including law enforcement will be attendance, it’s a great place to start. I was impressed with the people in attendance, the presentations given and the amount of time given for questions.
Ask questions and let your feelings on this matter be known at this meeting.

Will you be attending the next Welcome Wednesday meeting and asking questions?

[twoplanekid]

Will you be attending the next Welcome Wednesday meeting and asking questions?


Everyone must pick and choose what battles to wage. Golf cart safety is much more important to me than apprehending the persons responsible for the tree cutting. So, I made a passionate appeal for more attention to be focused on that issue when I was there.

As I am now in Ohio until sometime in October, I will not be attending another meeting anytime soon. However, I would not hesitate to attend when in town as the people in attendance seem to respond to questions from anyone, even me a newbie.

[graciegirl]

When I was new to the Villages, I wasn't concerned about what battles to wage. I was trying to absorb how things worked. No. That is wrong. I thought things worked very well. I just enjoyed how things worked very well.

[tuccillo]

I suspect that the results of the investigation (to date) can be FOIA'd if anyone has the time and interest to go that route.

Will you be attending the next Welcome Wednesday meeting and asking questions?

[Indydealmaker]

When I was new to the Villages, I wasn't concerned about what battles to wage. I was trying to absorb how things worked. No. That is wrong. I thought things worked very well. I just enjoyed how things worked very well.

Things still do work very well. In fact, much better than almost anywhere else in the developed world. That does not stop the conspiracy theorists from spewing negativity. Too many of these posts are speculative garbage rooted in watching too many law and order television programs. Only on TV do the authorities keep the citizens informed every step of the way during an investigation.

Stuff happens. Now, let's start Happy Hour early!

[Cedwards38]

I'm sorry. I just thought some of us had some legitimate questions about what we felt was an injustice to all of us in our community, and we refuse to accept the "stuff happens" defense for that injustice.

[Indydealmaker]

I'm sorry. I just thought some of us had some legitimate questions about what we felt was an injustice to all of us in our community, and we refuse to accept the "stuff happens" defense for that injustice.

"Stuff Happens" is and was not offered as a defense for the injustice. It was another way of saying: "The incident is being investigated. Period. Move on. This huge injustice cost us all $3 or $4. The angst is costing exponentially more than that. Many more critical and catastrophic wrongs end up unresolved.

Consider the possibility that this entire thing was a screw up on the part of a third party contractor. It would not be the first time something like that has happened. The wrong houses get demolished. The wrong cars get repossessed . The wrong leg gets amputated. For most of these, the guy who screwed up is around to get blamed. In this instance, it is possible no one witnessed the incident and a home owner who inadvertently gained a "view", may have decided to not look a gift horse in the mouth.

There is reasonable doubt. Just embrace it and move on. Justice has a way of just "happening" when you least expect it.

[MikeV]

I have ignored this thread long enough. I wanted to see what warrants almost 500 responses. Now I know.

[Polar Bear]

I have ignored this thread long enough. I wanted to see what warrants almost 500 responses. Now I know.
So can you tell me? :)

[Cedwards38]

"Stuff Happens" is and was not offered as a defense for the injustice. It was another way of saying: "The incident is being investigated. Period. Move on. This huge injustice cost us all $3 or $4. The angst is costing exponentially more than that. Many more critical and catastrophic wrongs end up unresolved.

Consider the possibility that this entire thing was a screw up on the part of a third party contractor. It would not be the first time something like that has happened. The wrong houses get demolished. The wrong cars get repossessed . The wrong leg gets amputated. For most of these, the guy who screwed up is around to get blamed. In this instance, it is possible no one witnessed the incident and a home owner who inadvertently gained a "view", may have decided to not look a gift horse in the mouth.

There is reasonable doubt. Just embrace it and move on. Justice has a way of just "happening" when you least expect it.

Good points all. Thank you for the clarity. It's not the $3 or $4 to me at all. It's the principle! Some folks are chuckling at all of us and they may get away with it. I just find it difficult to sit back and take that but maybe I should.

[Cedwards38]

So can you tell me? :)

For me it's about the principle of right vs. wrong!

[Polar Bear]

For me it's about the principle of right vs. wrong!

I favor right over wrong. All is finally clear.

[joldnol]

If someone broke into the Lake Sumter Office and trashed it to the tune of 50k and up would there still be this level of progress on the investigation?

[graciegirl]

If someone broke into the Lake Sumter Office and trashed it to the tune of 50k and up would there still be this level of progress on the investigation?


I don't understand the point you are trying to make. I think that the sheriff's office has done what it can do at this point.

I think I remember that you have suggested that people who live in that village are in cahoots and would not turn someone in if they knew for sure who did it. I completely don't understand how the size of a person's home makes them more or less moral.

I think that there will be someone charged with the crime if proof can be brought. I think that it is shameful and wrong, but no one can prove who was behind it for sure and with proof that can hold up in court.

I think that what Polar Bear said is true and that people watch TV and think it all works like on TV. It may never be solved in court. But those of us who live here in EVERY village are mad as hell it happened.

It isn't right to cut down trees and incur a huge community expense to replace them and it isn't right to blame a whole bunch of people who have bigger houses for being unethical.

In fact, one is as bad as the other.

Everybody knows who did it, or thinks they know. They just don't have PROOF. Sometimes the legal system works for us and sometimes the legal system doesn't work for us.

[MikeV]

I have ignored this thread long enough. I wanted to see what warrants almost 500 responses. Now I know.

So can you tell me? :)

Um, Nope!

[joldnol]

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. I think that the sheriff's office has done what it can do at this point.

I think I remember that you have suggested that people who live in that village are in cahoots and would not turn someone in if they knew for sure who did it. I completely don't understand how the size of a person's home makes them more or less moral.


.

I love living in TV and don't begrudge the Company a single dime they have made. That said, my point is if the Company were out 50 k vs the collective community I believe there would be a tad more urgency to solve the thing.

The size of someone's house does not make them more or less moral. There is a sense of entitlement that many that have more money possess however. It can be observed on a daily basis in TV from the way the "help" are treated in restaurants, rec centers, golf courses and stores. There is another set of justice based on your income. It is simply naive to believe otherwise.

[Polar Bear]

...There is another set of justice based on your income. It is simply naive to believe otherwise.

...and simply sad to believe it is a universal truth.

[Cedwards38]

I favor right over wrong. All is finally clear.

Me too, but in the case of the tree cutting, it seems far from clear to me. In fact, it seem inexplicably murky.

[graciegirl]

Me too, but in the case of the tree cutting, it seems far from clear to me. In fact, it seem inexplicably murky.



WHAT do you think really happened then? WHAT exactly? Who is it that you mistrust the most? Then second? Then third? and who do you think is lying and who do you think is not doing what you think should be done which is? And who is to blame? And who profited from this?

[newguyintv]

The Villages Daily Sun, page 1 of Section C Local News, has an extensive article of illegal clear cutting of trees on Lake Miona. The cost to put the damage right is estimated to be upwards of $30,000 and will be paid by "The District".

My question is does anyone know who is "The District" and what monies do they use to pay for this illegal cutting.

I have not, nor will I read all 400+ posts to this thread. What I don't understand is what costs are involved. Someone must have paid to have the trees cut down. What are the costs that remain. If they are because it looks unsightly with dead trees laying all over the place, why not just leave it a view in perpetuity for those who live there and are likely responsible. What am I missing here?

[janmcn]

I have not, nor will I read all 400+ posts to this thread. What I don't understand is what costs are involved. Someone must have paid to have the trees cut down. What are the costs that remain. If they are because it looks unsightly with dead trees laying all over the place, why not just leave it a view in perpetuity for those who live there and are likely responsible. What am I missing here?

The trees must be replaced, according to the Southwest Florida Water Management District, who fined the district $30,000 because the trees were removed. The costs of replacing the trees is $50,000, which has already been done and paid.

There is also a $5000 per year inspection fee to be paid by the district for a number of years. This $100,000 debt will be paid by districts five through eleven.

[Madelaine Amee]

I have not, nor will I read all 400+ posts to this thread. What I don't understand is what costs are involved. Someone must have paid to have the trees cut down. What are the costs that remain. If they are because it looks unsightly with dead trees laying all over the place, why not just leave it a view in perpetuity for those who live there and are likely responsible. What am I missing here?

The land in question is owned by SWFMD. The home owner and the logging people trespassed on SWFMD property to clear cut this land in order to have a clear view of the Lake, either for their own use for to help sell a property. You can find much more information on the power that SWFMD wields on their site. The cost incurred is basically the fine for trespassing and removal of trees and plants.

[newguyintv]

The land in question is owned by SWFMD. The home owner and the logging people trespassed on SWFMD property to clear cut this land in order to have a clear view of the Lake, either for their own use for to help sell a property. You can find much more information on the power that SWFMD wields on their site. The cost incurred is basically the fine for trespassing and removal of trees and plants.

Nice answer but you didn't answer my question. Obvious to me that someone must have paid to cut the trees down. What other costs are there for the district to cover. If it's to restore the area, clear dead trees etc. why spend a dime. Let the homeowners responsible look at the dead trees lying on the ground forever.

[CFrance]

Nice answer but you didn't answer my question. Obvious to me that someone must have paid to cut the trees down. What other costs are there for the district to cover. If it's to restore the area, clear dead trees etc. why spend a dime. Let the homeowners responsible look at the dead trees lying on the ground forever.
You really do need to go back and read at least the first hundred posts to learn why this was illegal, etc.

[dbussone]

Nice answer but you didn't answer my question. Obvious to me that someone must have paid to cut the trees down. What other costs are there for the district to cover. If it's to restore the area, clear dead trees etc. why spend a dime. Let the homeowners responsible look at the dead trees lying on the ground forever.


I think you missed her message. The land on which the trees were cut, and from which they were removed, belongs to a very powerful state sanctioned agency that heavily regulates its property. They can levy fines and demand return of the property to its prior state. This the did, and they will charge the district for the cost of monitoring the site as well. I know you did not want to review the previous posts, but a quick skim would have helped.

[newguyintv]

I think you missed her message. The land on which the trees were cut, and from which they were removed, belongs to a very powerful state sanctioned agency that heavily regulates its property. They can levy fines and demand return of the property to its prior state. This the did, and they will charge the district for the cost of monitoring the site as well. I know you did not want to review the previous posts, but a quick skim would have helped.

Didn't know that. Thought the land belonged to TV. And no, I'm not going to skim 100 posts to find the one or two that might offer correct information.

[ajbrown]

I think you missed her message. The land on which the trees were cut, and from which they were removed, belongs to a very powerful state sanctioned agency that heavily regulates its property. They can levy fines and demand return of the property to its prior state. This the did, and they will charge the district for the cost of monitoring the site as well. I know you did not want to review the previous posts, but a quick skim would have helped.

I know I missed a lot of details on this by choice, so I apologize...but I am curious...

If the trees were cut by someone unknown and it was not on Villages property, then why did the Villages get fined in the first place?

How did the state agency find the Villages at fault?

[dbussone]

I know I missed a lot of details on this by choice, so I apologize...but I am curious...



If the trees were cut by someone unknown and it was not on Villages property, then why did the Villages get fined in the first place?



How did the state agency find the Villages at fault?


Let me correct something I said. The land is owned by TV, but is under the jurisdiction and use controls of the the state agency noted above. (South West Water Management District .. I think) TV is subject to tremendous numbers of regulations from this agency. It's kind of like if you want to remove a tree of significant size from your property you must get permission from TV. If you do not, TV can require that you replace that tree.

[ajbrown]

Let me correct something I said. The land is owned by TV, but is under the jurisdiction and use controls of the the state agency noted above. (South West Water Management District .. I think) TV is subject to tremendous numbers of regulations from this agency. It's kind of like if you want to remove a tree of significant size from your property you must get permission from TV. If you do not, TV can require that you replace that tree.

Thanks!

[Polar Bear]

Let me correct something I said. The land is owned by TV, but is under the jurisdiction and use controls of of the the state agency noted above.

Nice catch, dbussone.

As you say, TV owns the property. But SWFWMD Environmental Resource Permits strictly limit what can take place over the property in question. Removing the trees was (obviously) not a permitted activity.

[dbussone]

Thanks!


You are welcome. Have a nice Fourth of July.