Bicycles on major roads

[neilbcox]

Do other residents in The Villages, like me, find it EXTREMELY dangerous that bicycles going maybe 10 MPH on major roads like Buena Vista/morse is crazy. Yesterday two lay down bikes going around turn abouts almost got hit. You cannot see these things. This is death waiting to happen.

Make these bicyclist us the modale paths is they cannot go the speed limit!

I do not mind bike clubs that use higher speeds in large groups is a problem.

Your POV?:

:cus:pepper2:

[JoMar]

I'm from PA where everything shares the roads....bikes, farm equipment, horse and buggy's, skateboarders etc. I personally have no problem sharing the road and always slow down and give wide berths to those riding or running. Accidents happen, golf carts get hit, bikers fall over. This is a golf cart community, it's a community where activity is encouraged and enjoyment of the land is appreciated. People who ride bikes at speed are better off on the roads then the MMP's.....those that take leisurely rides are usually on the MMP's. Oh yeah, I think cars should be banned or rerouthed and this should become a true golf cart/bike/runners/walkers community.....<jk>

[nkrifats]

Do other residents in The Villages, like me, find it EXTREMELY dangerous that bicycles going maybe 10 MPH on major roads like Buena Vista/morse is crazy. Yesterday two lay down bikes going around turn abouts almost got hit. You cannot see these things. This is death waiting to happen.

Make these bicyclist us the modale paths is they cannot go the speed limit!

I do not mind bike clubs that use higher speeds in large groups is a problem.

Your POV?:

:cus:pepper2:

Share the road and pay attention!

[Madelaine Amee]

Do other residents in The Villages, like me, find it EXTREMELY dangerous that bicycles going maybe 10 MPH on major roads like Buena Vista/morse is crazy. Yesterday two lay down bikes going around turn abouts almost got hit. You cannot see these things. This is death waiting to happen.

Make these bicyclist us the modale paths is they cannot go the speed limit!

I do not mind bike clubs that use higher speeds in large groups is a problem.

Your POV?:

:cus:pepper2:

I have to agree with what you say about the lay down bikes, very dangerous and should be driven on cart paths only. We have one that crosses 466 and I shudder every time I see it, because you just cannot see them. But, you cannot keep regular bikes off the road, it is their right to be there and you just have to use commonsense when driving with them.

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Driving around the Villages you really need to pay attention all the time! There are golf carts, people walking, bicycles and crazy car drivers. If you are not driving defensively sooner or later you will end up involved in an incident. As for the bikes on main roads like it or not it is totally legal or just be careful.

[perrjojo]

I'm from PA where everything shares the roads....bikes, farm equipment, horse and buggy's, skateboarders etc. I personally have no problem sharing the road and always slow down and give wide berths to those riding or running. Accidents happen, golf carts get hit, bikers fall over. This is a golf cart community, it's a community where activity is encouraged and enjoyment of the land is appreciated. People who ride bikes at speed are better off on the roads then the MMP's.....those that take leisurely rides are usually on the MMP's. Oh yeah, I think cars should be banned or rerouthed and this should become a true golf cart/bike/runners/walkers community.....<jk>

Thank you for your post. I no longer ride my bike but I always wonder why there are people who think they are the only ones entitled to use the road, multimodal paths, etc.

[perrjojo]

Lay down bikes are called recumbents.

[Wandatime]

A recumbent bike on a main road? Whether it is legal or not -- nutz!

[graciegirl]

Thank you for your post. I no longer ride my bike but I always wonder why there are people who think they are the only ones entitled to use the road, multimodal paths, etc.

I agree with perrjojo, I ALWAYS do...

Drive carefully. Drive like everyone else is stupid. Drive patiently, and drive with so much caution you will all be alive at the end of March, when the crowding is less. PLEASE.

[Gerald]

They have the right to be on the roads. That does not mean it is safe to do so.
With so many older drivers, people in a hurry going no where fast, crazy drivers etc. You just have to think to yourself. I am not going to be one of then. I will slow down and look around at all times.
Feeling bad that someone is taking a chance on riding a very low recumbent bike is notable. Alas you can't change every person to drive smart.

[Chazz]

A recumbent bike on a main road? Whether it is legal or not -- nutz!


Nutz(sic)...not at all!

I ride recumbents all the time. As a matter of fact I just finished a ride this morning with the Sumter Landing Bike Club. I was the only recumbent in the group. I ride a trike with bright lighting and a 6 foot flag. I ride very defensively and have been doing so for the past 6 years. I have never so much as had a close call. The only time I feel I am at a disadvantage, compared to an upright bike, is in the roundabouts. I use particular caution when riding in these. I have had well meaning drivers, on rare occasion, yell at me to get off the road, or even the cart paths (which I, also, ride), and that they can't see me, even as they are looking straight at me. My belief is that it is not so much a matter of not being seen, but the other drivers just not wanting me, in particular, or any other cyclists in their way, for that matter.

As far as safety goes, compared to an upright bike, my trike is far safer. I never wobble, I don't need to balance, and I stop at stop signs, in part, because I don't need to put my feet down when I stop. Also, if I were to run into something, I would be thrown feet first, rather than head first, as on an upright, and I have a lower height to fall from. Also, if I hit a slippery patch on the road, I never fall, even if a wheel loses traction, while an upright will likely wipe out.

The greatest threat to cyclists safety, in my opinion, is unsafe riding by cyclists themselves, regardless of the type of bike they ride.

[justjim]

Chazz, you have more "guts" than most of us! Ride on!

[Polar Bear]

...The greatest threat to cyclists safety, in my opinion, is unsafe riding by cyclists themselves, regardless of the type of bike they ride.

Can't argue with that.

[sunnyatlast]

Nutz(sic)...not at all!

I ride recumbents all the time. As a matter of fact I just finished a ride this morning with the Sumter Landing Bike Club. I was the only recumbent in the group. I ride a trike with bright lighting and a 6 foot flag. I ride very defensively and have been doing so for the past 6 years……..
The greatest threat to cyclists safety, in my opinion, is unsafe riding by cyclists themselves, regardless of the type of bike they ride.

You hit the nail on the head with these two highlighted phrases.

Yesterday, while driving my car on Rio Grande where the car and diamond lanes could not be narrower or tighter to start with, it was cloudy and not good visibility. I was headed toward 441 and as I came into a tree shaded area, I got a glimpse of a slow, wobbling bicyclist who could barely be seen in his clothing that could have been literal camouflage:

Dark army green shirt, and the rest was dark grey-colored clothing, the exact colors of the pavement and winter half-dormant grass, trees and bushes. With the cloudiness and dusk-like conditions, he was an unsteady, hidden accident waiting to happen.

If people don't care about themselves and are going to toy and gamble with their own safety on foot or bike, they could at least have some consideration for others and use a couple of bright, high neon flags and a neon or white shirt! This guy looked like he intended to blend in with the scenery so others would never seen him.

[vorage]

Bicycles are found on main roads, country roads and city roads all around the country and they have every right to be there. Our complaining isn't going to change it, so we need to change our behavior toward them. I mean no disrespect to any one, but we must all respect anyone we come upon, whether pedestrian, cyclist or auto, and be mindful of everyone's safety. Everywhere - not just in The Villages.

My biggest problem with cyclists is unexpected behavior - their motive is known only to them. That said, I accept their right to be there. I never trust that any bicycle will do what it appears they plan to do and give them a wide berth. Experienced cyclists will probably sneer at that, but we have a large number of very inexperienced people out on the road and, heaven help me, I can't tell the difference. (Don't even get me started on those who ride without helmets.)

Cars and carts do have a serious (and no doubt universal) problem with speeding. Have you ever set your cruise control at 35 mph going down Morse or Buena Vista? Try driving 30 mph in the upper section of Morse and see what happens. I drive that route daily, usually a couple mph over the speed limit myself, and invariably have someone riding my bumper like I was tying up the fast lane on I-75. Yes, many of us have jobs, doctors appointments, and what have you. We all have emergencies from time to time, but if you find yourself speeding more often than not, then you have a scheduling problem.

Driving the speed limit and sharing the road has nothing to do with being retired and everything to do with being sensible and doing the right thing. Will that solve everything? Of course not. Do it anyway.

[Bizdoc]

They may have a right to be on the road, but... they don't have a right to be stupid. Saw a recumbent out at 6 am this morning, no lights or reflectors (except the silly little flag) and the rider chatting on his cell phone as he blew thru the stop sign. Hope his life insurance is paid up.

[Paper1]

I've only been riding "road bikes" for 8 years not counting as a kid, but have owned and driven motorcycles for over 40 years so I do have some experience sharing the road with cars. Many of the posts on this thread and the one that ran a couple weeks ago remind me of the old guy that used to sit out on his porch at night to see if he could catch us kids cutting across his lawn. Rolling stops is a big one mentioned. I paid very close attention during a couple hundred miles of riding and never saw a car come to a complete stop at a right hand turn unless something was coming or someone stopped in front of them. I saw many continue to go after light has changed red. I have to disagree with my fellow bicycle club member about bike riders being the problem. My advice for those driving cars and come onto a bicycle, even one going slow is try easing your foot off the gas slightly until you can safely pull to the left a little and pass. In all fairness I ride many miles on Morse and Buane Vista and the overwhelming percentage of drivers do share the road and I don't believe I've ever made anyone late for an important engagement.

[ratz1]

Here's the thing

I drive a car; and I ride one of those crazy low bikes and a really fast one. I've been riding for over 35 years all over the world; logging 3000-4000 miles a year.

There are good bikers and there are good car drives; there are also bad ones of both, Some disturbingly bad. My personal goal is to be a good one of both.

On my bike that means bright lights, predictable behavior; avoiding dangerous areas when feasible etc etc. Cops always complement my lights and visibility. The cops that know me have come to my defense when harassed by bad motorists; I like to think I've earn that protection by doing thing the right way.

In my car; I don't use my cell phone, yes like everyone else I use to for years; now I just don't do it I have learned. I'm always amazed at the number of people on their phone 2 seconds after pulling out of the drive way. Not me, I pay attention and I drive to the best of my abilities.

If I screw up on my bike I put myself in harms way; and in most cases just me unless I'm a complete moron. If I screw up in my car I put everyone else at risk think 99 car pile up in Michigan.

You can't stop stupid behavior of others; but you can avoid it yourself. That's really the best approach to go for. If you hit a bike because the rider was truly at fault then it's their fault. If you hit one because you were careless and at fault; you have to live with the fact that the biker probably will not....

Sadly everyone assumes the biker was at fault; and many of us our working hard to make sure that becomes less and less true.

[PaPaLarry]

I've only been riding "road bikes" for 8 years not counting as a kid, but have owned and driven motorcycles for over 40 years so I do have some experience sharing the road with cars. Many of the posts on this thread and the one that ran a couple weeks ago remind me of the old guy that used to sit out on his porch at night to see if he could catch us kids cutting across his lawn. Rolling stops is a big one mentioned. I paid very close attention during a couple hundred miles of riding and never saw a car come to a complete stop at a right hand turn unless something was coming or someone stopped in front of them. I saw many continue to go after light has changed red. I have to disagree with my fellow bicycle club member about bike riders being the problem. My advice for those driving cars and come onto a bicycle, even one going slow is try easing your foot off the gas slightly until you can safely pull to the left a little and pass. In all fairness I ride many miles on Morse and Buane Vista and the overwhelming percentage of drivers do share the road and I don't believe I've ever made anyone late for an important engagement.
I agree, bikes have the right to be on roads throughout The Villages. I assume, these people know what they are doing, and are just as scared, as the driver in a car. Yes, they could use the cart paths, especially when there are roundabouts, but they choose not to do so, for one reason or another. (Actually, I notice more people are using cart paths when biking for pleasure, an not work out) BUT, when it comes to STOP SIGNS, (not right turns) very few stop and dismount, like I'm sure you are suppose to. Mostly all cars stop fully, before moving on again. That's my only dispute with the bikes. AGAIN, I am only mentioning STOP SIGNS!!! I myself do not bike on main roads, because it's only for pleasure, and I tell myself: "I can't fix stupid" (at 76 yrs old) HE HE To my fellow bikers, who know what they are doing, continue to enjoy!

[tomwed]

I bike where it is safest and appreciate the paths. When I bike BV I'm checking my mirror and hoping the driver behind me is having a good day. That stresses me out and ruins my ride.

Of course if you don't wear a helmet .......................................

[kstew43]

i think and do ride my bike in subdivisions internal street roads.......I think a pleasure ride, waving at people, browsing home lawns and decorations is much more relaxing then riding a bike with cars going 35 and even 45 miles per hour speeding by me....

I just don't get the reasoning for bikes to be on main road unless thats the drivers only means of transportation.

It would scare the crap out of me......

[Miles42]

I am sorry but learn to share the road and pay attention is the best advice given.

[Barefoot]

I am sorry but learn to share the road and pay attention is the best advice given.


.... I do ride my bike in subdivisions internal street roads.......I think a pleasure ride, waving at people, browsing home lawns and decorations is much more relaxing then riding a bike with cars going 35 and even 45 miles per hour speeding by me....
I just don't get the reasoning for bikes to be on main road unless thats the drivers only means of transportation. It would scare the crap out of me......

I think kstew's comments make sense.
It's legal for me to ride my bike on a main road like Buena Vista, no question.
But for me, it wouldn't be at all relaxing or enjoyable. Therefore I wouldn't do it.

[CFrance]

It is one thing to ride your bike like kstew does. (That would be my way to ride too.)

But It's quite another to be riding as a sport, for speed and exercise. Those types need to be on the roads like BV and Morse and not endangering walkers and carters on the mm paths. It's legal for them to be there, and the rest of us just have to deal safely with them.

Even if it's not the wisest choice in some people's opinion, it is their legal choice.

[Happydaz]

If bicycling on the roads is so dangerous and frightens people so much why aren't they afraid to ride in their golf carts? Most have no seat belts and go 20 mph in narrow lanes, sometimes right next to cars going 35 mph. There have been 15 golf cart deaths in The Villages in the last 4 years and for some reason everyone keeps talking about bicyclists riding on Buena Vista Blvd. Where is your fear of riding in a golf cart without seat belts? Falling out of a golf cart and suffering an impact to the head can result in a fatality. No serious bicyclist would consider riding at 20 mph without a helmet, yet people careen around corners here in their golf carts with no seat belts in a vehicle that was not designed to go over 13 mph and is prone to roll overs.

[Skybo]

It seems to me that there are a lot less recumbent bikes around than there were 3 or 4 years ago. I used to see several every time I drove through TV, but now I rarely see them. Has anyone else noticed that? Makes me wonder if many of the recumbent bike riders just felt too vulnerable. And if so, that is a shame, because it looks like a very good form of exercise.

If we, as car/cart drivers, are paying proper attention, we should be looking for the flags (not at all silly, btw) on recumbent bikes, as well as watching for walkers, runners, scooters, motorcycles...and every other form of conveyance here. Some people don't do their due diligence when it comes to protecting themselves, but that doesn't relieve the rest of us of the responsibility of our own due diligence.

The "active lifestyle" is a large part of what makes TV what it is. Personally, I really enjoy seeing folks out walking, running and riding bikes. That is a big part of the vibrancy of this community. And that is what newcomers and visitors notice the most. And, btw, it is also a major reason why our homes are so valuable.

It doesn't matter the road, path or method of conveyance, there will always be people who are irritated by what someone else does.

I just wish that everyone, regardless of what they are driving or riding would reign in their "irritation" when they encounter others who they feel are going too slow or going too fast or not following all of the laws.

Think about how laying on your horn or yelling might startle someone and make them react in a way that could cause an accident. Or how passing them too fast or too close might result in a tragedy. Try to pretend that the stranger who is currently irritating you is actually a visiting friend or family member of yours, and treat them as you would want your loved ones to be treated.

[tomwed]

According to the 2012 National Survey on Bicyclist and Pedestrian Attitudes and Behaviors, nearly a third of all injuries are caused when bicyclists are struck by cars.

Six most Frequent Sources of Injury Percent
Hit by car 29
Fell 17
Roadway/walkway not in good repair 13
Rider error/not paying attention 13
Crashed/collision 7
Dog ran out 4

Struck by golf cart doesn't even warrant a mention.
The paths are in excellent repair. I have been chased down by dogs over the years but not much more then a bark in TV.

[Chazz]

It seems to me that there are a lot less recumbent bikes around than there were 3 or 4 years ago. I used to see several every time I drove through TV, but now I rarely see them. Has anyone else noticed that? Makes me wonder if many of the recumbent bike riders just felt too vulnerable. And if so, that is a shame, because it looks like a very good form of exercise.

If we, as car/cart drivers, are paying proper attention, we should be looking for the flags (not at all silly, btw) on recumbent bikes, as well as watching for walkers, runners, scooters, motorcycles...and every other form of conveyance here. Some people don't do their due diligence when it comes to protecting themselves, but that doesn't relieve the rest of us of the responsibility of our own due diligence.

The "active lifestyle" is a large part of what makes TV what it is. Personally, I really enjoy seeing folks out walking, running and riding bikes. That is a big part of the vibrancy of this community. And that is what newcomers and visitors notice the most. And, btw, it is also a major reason why our homes are so valuable and will sell quickly.

It doesn't matter the road, path or method of conveyance, there will always be people who are irritated by what someone else does.

I just wish that everyone, regardless of what they are driving or riding would reign in their in their "irritation" when they encounter others who they feel are going too slow or going too fast or not following all of the laws.

Think about how laying on your horn or yelling might startle someone and make them react in a way that could cause an accident. Or how passing them too fast or too close might result in a tragedy. Try to pretend that the stranger who is currently irritating you is actually a visiting friend or family member of yours, and treat them as you would want your loved ones to be treated.


Although I can't provide figures, I would say that there are many more recumbent riders (more trikes than 2-wheelers) in my view, than at any time here in the past. As a matter of fact, the Sumter Landing Bike Club just recognized their increasing popularity by adding a recumbent trike group ride out of Barnes & Nobles on Mondays. I have had the pleasure of riding with that group a few times, and they practice safe riding principles.

[Chazz]

I have to agree with what you say about the lay down bikes, very dangerous and should be driven on cart paths only. We have one that crosses 466 and I shudder every time I see it, because you just cannot see them. But, you cannot keep regular bikes off the road, it is their right to be there and you just have to use commonsense when driving with them.

Huhhh???

[Skybo]

Although I can't provide figures, I would say that there are many more recumbent riders (more trikes than 2-wheelers) in my view, than at any time here in the past. As a matter of fact, the Sumter Landing Bike Club just recognized their increasing popularity by adding a recumbent trike group ride out of Barnes & Nobles on Mondays. I have had the pleasure of riding with that group a few times, and they practice safe riding principles.

You may very well be correct...it just seemed to me that I'm not seeing as many as I had in the past. Happy to hear that the sport is thriving!

[Chazz]

According to the 2012 National Survey on Bicyclist and Pedestrian Attitudes and Behaviors, nearly a third of all injuries are caused when bicyclists are struck by cars.

Six most Frequent Sources of Injury Percent
Hit by car 29
Fell 17
Roadway/walkway not in good repair 13
Rider error/not paying attention 13
Crashed/collision 7
Dog ran out 4

Struck by golf cart doesn't even warrant a mention.
The paths are in excellent repair. I have been chased down by dogs over the years but not much more then a bark in TV.

If memory serves me, a couple of years ago there was one very serious accident involving an upright bike on the cart path near Bridgeport at Lake Sumter. The cyclist was hit by a street legal cart (LSV) driven by someone who had a medical condition that prohibited him from driving a motor vehicle. He drove his LSV (which he shouldn't have been driving) over the cyclist then backed over the cyclist again. Miraculously, the cyclist survived.

[biker1]

I wouldn't expect golf carts to be a significant factor in a national survey. The Villages is not very representative of the nation, from a golf cart point of view.

According to the 2012 National Survey on Bicyclist and Pedestrian Attitudes and Behaviors, nearly a third of all injuries are caused when bicyclists are struck by cars.

Six most Frequent Sources of Injury Percent
Hit by car 29
Fell 17
Roadway/walkway not in good repair 13
Rider error/not paying attention 13
Crashed/collision 7
Dog ran out 4

Struck by golf cart doesn't even warrant a mention.
The paths are in excellent repair. I have been chased down by dogs over the years but not much more then a bark in TV.

[Chazz]

You may very well be correct...it just seemed to me that I'm not seeing as many as I had in the past. Happy to hear that the sport is thriving!

Even with the growth of the sport in TV, it is still a small fraction of the number of upright bikes. However, if you ever ride the Withlacoochee State Trail, from Inverness, the number of recumbents there is amazing. I've ridden there on days where the recumbent riders outnumber the uprights. The fact that there are 2 recumbent bike dealers on the trail contributes to that, I'm sure.

[tomwed]

If memory serves me, a couple of years ago there was one very serious accident involving an upright bike on the cart path near Bridgeport at Lake Sumter. The cyclist was hit by a street legal cart (LSV) driven by someone who had a medical condition that prohibited him from driving a motor vehicle. He drove his LSV (which he shouldn't have been driving) over the cyclist then backed over the cyclist again. Miraculously, the cyclist survived.
I wonder how many people are driving cars that shouldn't. You have a chance against a cart wearing a helmet. That's why I stay on the paths.

[Bonanza]

A recumbent bike on a main road? Whether it is legal or not -- nutz!

Nutz(sic)...not at all!

I ride recumbents all the time. As a matter of fact I just finished a ride this morning with the Sumter Landing Bike Club. I was the only recumbent in the group. I ride a trike with bright lighting and a 6 foot flag. I ride very defensively and have been doing so for the past 6 years. I have never so much as had a close call. The only time I feel I am at a disadvantage, compared to an upright bike, is in the roundabouts. I use particular caution when riding in these. I have had well meaning drivers, on rare occasion, yell at me to get off the road, or even the cart paths (which I, also, ride), and that they can't see me, even as they are looking straight at me. My belief is that it is not so much a matter of not being seen, but the other drivers just not wanting me, in particular, or any other cyclists in their way, for that matter.

As far as safety goes, compared to an upright bike, my trike is far safer. I never wobble, I don't need to balance, and I stop at stop signs, in part, because I don't need to put my feet down when I stop. Also, if I were to run into something, I would be thrown feet first, rather than head first, as on an upright, and I have a lower height to fall from. Also, if I hit a slippery patch on the road, I never fall, even if a wheel loses traction, while an upright will likely wipe out.

The greatest threat to cyclists safety, in my opinion, is unsafe riding by cyclists themselves, regardless of the type of bike they ride.

Sorry Chazz, I'm in total agreement with Wanda.

Since you already ride a recumbent bike, you will always defend riding it. A lighted bike during daylight is meaningless. A 6' flag may be noticed, but maybe not if someone can't see to what it's attached. Wobbling has nothing to do with what she is speaking about, nor does balance, etc. There is no provision for you to be riding a bike on Buena Vista or Morse. You have no business riding that bike around the circles, where cars don't know their a$$ from their elbow in driving around them. You may know what you are doing, but drivers don't!

You belong on the modal paths but you obviously don't like that idea and I'm sure you have reasons/excuses for not using them.

You've been riding your bike footloose and fancy free for six years? Consider yourself lucky to still be among us!

[GaryW]

If memory serves me, a couple of years ago there was one very serious accident involving an upright bike on the cart path near Bridgeport at Lake Sumter. The cyclist was hit by a street legal cart (LSV) driven by someone who had a medical condition that prohibited him from driving a motor vehicle. He drove his LSV (which he shouldn't have been driving) over the cyclist then backed over the cyclist again. Miraculously, the cyclist survived.

You are absolutely correct. And it was the day before that I was riding with my wife and daughter on the MMP between Morse and Buena Vista on 466, we were doing 20-21 mph, A older gent on a cart passed my daughter and ran into my wife from behind and wrecked both of them. Had to call 911, my daughter was taking to TV Hospital. The gent said he was just trying to pass us. We were in a single file line heading into one of the divided sections on of the MMP just past Laurel Valley. There is no room to pass on that part of the MMP. SCSO asked him why in a hurry, he told the Deputy he had no idea just want to pass us.

[tomwed]

I found the accident report about the biker who was struck by a golf cart.
click here (http://www.poa4us.org/golfcart_crashes_1.html)
Read the golf cart accident reports. Much more then I imagined.

[Happydaz]

I found the accident report about the biker who was struck by a golf cart.
click here (http://www.poa4us.org/golfcart_crashes_1.html)
Read the golf cart accident reports. Much more then I imagined.

Wow! After reading about all the golf cart accidents It is obvious that it is not bicycling that is dangerous, but it is riding in a golf cart without seat belts. 15 deaths in 4 years is very high. This is typical about people, they tend to fret over a perceived danger, even though it rarely happens, and not pay any attention to a real threat. I think the real issue in this thread is that some automobile drivers do not like slowing down for bicycles on the roads. They do not like having to merge into the other lane on Buena Vista Blvd. and Morse Blvd.. Their dislike of bicycles on the roads is palpable. Thank goodness the vast majority of drivers are courteous and careful and slow down or merge into the other lane.

[LndLocked]

Wow! After reading about all the golf cart accidents It is obvious that it is not bicycling that is dangerous, but it is riding in a golf cart without seat belts. 15 deaths in 4 years is very high. This is typical about people, they tend to fret over a perceived danger, even though it rarely happens, and not pay any attention to a real threat. I think the real issue in this thread is that some automobile drivers do not like slowing down for bicycles on the roads. They do not like having to merge into the other lane on Buena Vista Blvd. and Morse Blvd.. Their dislike of bicycles on the roads is palpable. Thank goodness the vast majority of drivers are courteous and careful and slow down or merge into the other lane.


DING DING DING !!!!! we have a winner!

[biker1]

I am sorry to hear about your wife and daughter. I believe the biggest threat to cyclists is getting clipped from behind by either a car or golf cart. In another thread, which was mercifully ended by the moderator yesterday, the driver of a golf cart was apparently read the riot act by two cyclists he/she probably passed with very little clearance. Cyclists need to be given a wide berth because the consequences of an accident can be severe.

You are absolutely correct. And it was the day before that I was riding with my wife and daughter on the MMP between Morse and Buena Vista on 466, we were doing 20-21 mph, A older gent on a cart passed my daughter and ran into my wife from behind and wrecked both of them. Had to call 911, my daughter was taking to TV Hospital. The gent said he was just trying to pass us. We were in a single file line heading into one of the divided sections on of the MMP just past Laurel Valley. There is no room to pass on that part of the MMP. SCSO asked him why in a hurry, he told the Deputy he had no idea just want to pass us.

[Chazz]

Sorry Chazz, I'm in total agreement with Wanda.

Since you already ride a recumbent bike, you will always defend riding it. A lighted bike during daylight is meaningless. A 6' flag may be noticed, but maybe not if someone can't see to what it's attached. Wobbling has nothing to do with what she is speaking about, nor does balance, etc. There is no provision for you to be riding a bike on Buena Vista or Morse. You have no business riding that bike around the circles, where cars don't know their a$$ from their elbow in driving around them. You may know what you are doing, but drivers don't!

You belong on the modal paths but you obviously don't like that idea and I'm sure you have reasons/excuses for not using them.

You've been riding your bike footloose and fancy free for six years? Consider yourself lucky to still be among us!

And, I am in total disagreement with you and Wanda.

As to my light being useless in daylight, that is simply false. I have a high intensity flashing red light that, I have been told by drivers, can be seen in bright daylight, over 1/2 mile away. However, I completely understand that nothing that I can say or do will satisfy that I may ride safely on the roads, and I am comfortable with that. I don't expect complete invulnerability in life. If I did, I would curl up in bed and stay there to avoid any chance of mishap. Every choice in life presents some degree of risk. My problem is with people who project their perception of risk tolerance onto others, and seek to nullify lawful behavior based on their determination that we have "no business" riding there. My concern is that hostile drivers will read this and feel justified in teaching us a "lesson."

[biker1]

It isn't clear to me that the multimodal paths are safer than the roads. I ride a fair amount and believe the roads are safer. Caution is certainly needed in the roundabouts. Riding in a group increases visibility and therefore safety.


Sorry Chazz, I'm in total agreement with Wanda.

Since you already ride a recumbent bike, you will always defend riding it. A lighted bike during daylight is meaningless. A 6' flag may be noticed, but maybe not if someone can't see to what it's attached. Wobbling has nothing to do with what she is speaking about, nor does balance, etc. There is no provision for you to be riding a bike on Buena Vista or Morse. You have no business riding that bike around the circles, where cars don't know their a$$ from their elbow in driving around them. You may know what you are doing, but drivers don't!

You belong on the modal paths but you obviously don't like that idea and I'm sure you have reasons/excuses for not using them.

You've been riding your bike footloose and fancy free for six years? Consider yourself lucky to still be among us!

[Vladimir]

It seems to me that most of us are oriented to look out for other cars while driving on state roads, highways,etc. Then we enter The Villages and there are now pedestrians, bikes, golf carts, and other cars that we need to reorient to - which means accidents will happen if we don't pay extra close attention. If you ride a bike on these roads be aware that your risk factor goes way up. Heck, even driving a car in The Villages is riskier - I almost got rear ended by a subcontractor in a pick up truck talking on his phone!

Also the parking lots with their minimal spacing are extra dangerous since I have seen two cars backing out simultaneously ready to hit each other or golf carts flying by you while you are halfway out of the parking spot.

[RickeyD]

I found the accident report about the biker who was struck by a golf cart.

click here (http://www.poa4us.org/golfcart_crashes_1.html)

Read the golf cart accident reports. Much more then I imagined.


To all those who rent out their houses complete with golf carts this is a MUST read. Especially since insurance can not be secured for your renters anymore...

[tomwed]

It isn't clear to me that the multimodal paths are safer than the roads. I ride a fair amount and believe the roads are safer. Caution is certainly needed in the roundabouts. Riding in a group increases visibility and therefore safety.
That's your right.
But if you have young guests, 12 year olds, and they want to go biking, where would you advise them to ride?

[Chazz]

That's your right.
But if you have young guests, 12 year olds, and they want to go biking, where would you advise them to ride?

I would take them on a short drive to ride on the Withlacoochee State Trail.

[CFrance]

I would take them on a short drive to ride on the Withlacoochee State Trail.
Good question and excellent answer.:wave:

[tommy steam]

The only thing I want to add to this thread is anyone who rides a bike ,should wear day glow yellow or orange shirts or jackets and have a very bright blinking or stationary light on the back and front of their bike. Be highly visible , many drivers around here don't see too well.

[adeleb]

Just because it is legal doesn't mean it is smart or safe. Where I am from in Ct. We have winding roads without shoulders or overgrown shoulders that are heavily used in winter by commuters going to work. And there are runners in the early morning dark in rain and snow right next to the cars. I white knuckle it when I am passing them hoping my car doesn't skid or they don't run further into road at moment I am passig when they are avoiding mud or branch.

Every year there is a tragedy or two. Takes the life of runner, ruins life of driver, family without mother or father now. Legal battles ensue. It is an accident but like I say, just because it is legal ......seems to be a badge of honor to run or bike on busiest road under any condition, instead of the more quiet side roads.

[CFrance]

I sure am glad I don't ride a bike in TV. It's almost as incendiary as walking a dog.:laugh:

[Bonanza]

And, I am in total disagreement with you and Wanda.

As to my light being useless in daylight, that is simply false. I have a high intensity flashing red light that, I have been told by drivers, can be seen in bright daylight, over 1/2 mile away. However, I completely understand that nothing that I can say or do will satisfy that I may ride safely on the roads, and I am comfortable with that. I don't expect complete invulnerability in life. If I did, I would curl up in bed and stay there to avoid any chance of mishap. Every choice in life presents some degree of risk. My problem is with people who project their perception of risk tolerance onto others, and seek to nullify lawful behavior based on their determination that we have "no business" riding there. My concern is that hostile drivers will read this and feel justified in teaching us a "lesson."

In your original post, you did not describe your light other than the fact that you had a light. Period! Your curling up in bed is a gross exaggeration to make your point, which is somewhat lame.

I, for one, am not projecting any kind of perception. Riding around the circles in TV on one of those things is risky. Just take a look at the drivers in cars! Every person has their own special way of navigating them and they think their way is the only way.

I question why you must take the "high" roads of Buena Vista and Morse, when it would be considerably safer to at least use the internal Village streets???

I, for one, wish you well and no harm, but I think there are safer places to ride your bike other than your particular choices.

[billlaur]

its like allowing skateboards on sidewalks with pedestrians..accident waiting 2 happen..:shocked:

[dirtbanker]

Share the road and pay attention!

If we are going to share the road why not share the expense too?

I am all for these bicyclists having to purchase license plates, pay road taxes, taking driving tests and obtaining a license (at a fee). I am also supportive of police writing them tickets when they disobey traffic laws (like the rolling stop after they have drove up the side of other vehicles waiting their turn at an stop sign intersection).

[biker1]

If I had young guests, I would recommend they stay on the neighborhood streets.
That's your right.
But if you have young guests, 12 year olds, and they want to go biking, where would you advise them to ride?

[perrjojo]

Those who do not want bicycles on the road will never change their minds. Some just don't understand why a cyclist wants to ride on the road. Let me shed a little light on their reasoning. As a serious cyclist my husband and I rode about 2500 miles per year. That would be quite a task on the interior streets and multi modal paths. Most cyclist ride for cardio benifts. Riding thru tunnels, over speed bumps and around internal streets will not allow for a good cardio workout. It's true that some cyclist blow thru stop signs but so do other drivers. No, they should not do so but a cyclist doing so has a far better view of on coming traffic than other modes of transportation. IMO, Most claim that they worry about the cyclist Saftey but in most cases the cyclist just annoys them because they have to slow down or because it makes the driver nervous to pass them. As far as not paying for their share of road maintenance, cyclist also own vehicles and pay to drive those. Let's be reasonable. A 12 pound bike causes very little wear and tear on the roadway as compared to a 3000 pound vehicle. Share the road...it's the law. It's also the nice thing to do. Oh, and cyclist do get traffic citations just as other vehicles.

[biker1]

I am a cyclist and I pay plenty of taxes to support the roads because I have 2 cars, I pay property taxes, and I pay federal income tax. Bicycles do not damage the roads the way that cars and trucks do. Please don't bring up the issue of cyclists violating traffic laws. Cars violate the traffic laws also and there are a lot more cars. I see plenty of cars crossing double solid lines to pass cyclists because they are too impatient to wait for a safe place to pass. Sharing the road is the law. If you are unhappy with the law then put the time and effort in to try to change it.


If we are going to share the road why not share the expense too?

I am all for these bicyclists having to purchase license plates, pay road taxes, taking driving tests and obtaining a license (at a fee). I am also supportive of police writing them tickets when they disobey traffic laws (like the rolling stop after they have drove up the side of other vehicles waiting their turn at an stop sign intersection).

[adeleb]

Don't know if there is a helmet law here. in CT you have to wear a helmet to ride a bike but not a motorcycle.

Perfect example of just because it's legal doesn't mean is smart or safe or even makes sense.

I work at a hospital and we call those motorcyclists without helmets organ donors...and those are The lucky ones.

[LndLocked]

Florida's helmet law for bicyclists states that anyone under the age of 16 must wear one. Anyone above 16 is not required by law to do so.

(Revised in accordance with 2012 statute change)

s 316.2065 – Bicycle Regulations

(3)(d) A bicycle rider or passenger who is under 16 years of age must wear a bicycle helmet that is properly fitted and is fastened securely upon the passenger’s head by a strap and that meets the federal safety standard for bicycle helmets, final rule, 16 C.F.R. part 1203. A helmet purchased before October 1, 2012, which meets the standards of the American National Standards Institute (ANSI Z 90.4 Bicycle Helmet Standards), the standards of the Snell Memorial Foundation (1984 Standard for Protective Headgear for Use in Bicycling), or any other nationally recognized standards for bicycle helmets adopted by the department may continue to be worn by a bicycle rider or passenger until January 1, 2016. As used in this subsection, the term “passenger” includes a child who is riding in a trailer or semitrailer attached to a bicycle.

(e) Law enforcement officers and school crossing guards may issue a bicycle safety brochure and a verbal warning to a bicycle rider or passenger who violates this subsection. A bicycle rider or passenger who violates this subsection may be issued a citation by a law enforcement officer and assessed a fine for a pedestrian violation, as provided in s. 318.18. The court shall dismiss the charge against a bicycle rider or passenger for a first violation of paragraph (d) upon proof of purchase of a bicycle helmet that complies with this subsection.

[Miles42]

I agree with another poster there are people on the road that absolutely do not want to share the road . Be it a motorcycle a bicycle etc. If it is not their mode of transportation it should not be allowed. For those against bicycle's on the road suggest you bone up on the laws re same. Take your road rage and corral it. Life is shorter than you think.

[outlaw]

I believe the law for interstate travel requires a motorized vehicle must maintain a speed no less than 15 mph below the speed limit or may be ticketed for causing a hazardous traffic condition. That seems logical to me. Maybe that should be applied to all modes of transportation on heavily traveled roads. If that was applied to Buena Vista, cyclists would have to maintain 20 mph.

[outlaw]

Those who do not want bicycles on the road will never change their minds. Some just don't understand why a cyclist wants to ride on the road. Let me shed a little light on their reasoning. As a serious cyclist my husband and I rode about 2500 miles per year. That would be quite a task on the interior streets and multi modal paths. Most cyclist ride for cardio benifts. Riding thru tunnels, over speed bumps and around internal streets will not allow for a good cardio workout. It's true that some cyclist blow thru stop signs but so do other drivers. No, they should not do so but a cyclist doing so has a far better view of on coming traffic than other modes of transportation. IMO, Most claim that they worry about the cyclist Saftey but in most cases the cyclist just annoys them because they have to slow down or because it makes the driver nervous to pass them. As far as not paying for their share of road maintenance, cyclist also own vehicles and pay to drive those. Let's be reasonable. A 12 pound bike causes very little wear and tear on the roadway as compared to a 3000 pound vehicle. Share the road...it's the law. It's also the nice thing to do. Oh, and cyclist do get traffic citations just as other vehicles.

Actually, there is likely to be more cardio conditioning benefits from using tunnels and slowing and accelerating than just constant tempo. Studies have shown that intervals of higher anaerobic intensity, such as hill climbing and acceleration, increase cardio capacity more than constant aerobic intensity. As a cyclist (with a mirror), I have found I don't have better visual awareness behind, and on the side of me than I do in my car with side view and rear view mirrors. In fact, I find I have trouble turning my head far enough around to clearly see behind me and at the same time keep my eyes on the situation in front of me. How would you feel about requiring a license and registration with accompanying taxes and fees, just like motorcycles, to use the roadways?

[Polar Bear]

Those who do not want bicycles on the road will never change their minds. Some just don't understand why a cyclist wants to ride on the road. Let me shed a little light on their reasoning. As a serious cyclist my husband and I rode about 2500 miles per year. That would be quite a task on the interior streets and multi modal paths. Most cyclist ride for cardio benifts. Riding thru tunnels, over speed bumps and around internal streets will not allow for a good cardio workout...

I will never ride as much as you and your husband have. And believe me...I respect your opinion. But I must disagree about cardio benefits off the main streets. I ride quite a bit and pretty good distances for cardio and I get plenty. I will ride on the roadside paths (like on O'dell, Stillwater and many others, as well as the MMP's. I don't often ride on the strictly internal subdivision streets. I never ride on Morse or Buena Vista proper (auto lanes...I will ride on Morse roadside bike lane). But I rarely have to stop for bumps, signs or such. I can go as fast as I like for as long as I like while never entering a "main road". The rare tunnel is inconsequential. I'm to it and through it very quickly...and safely.

[biker1]

There is no comparison in visual awareness between when I am riding and in my car. I can see much better when I am riding. My mirror is on the end of my drop bars and my helmet/sunglasses do not restrict my peripheral vision. Where is your mirror?

Regarding a cardio workout, the opportunities are much better on the roads than the multimodal paths. I can stand up and accelerate when I want and there are some hills in The Villages and north of The Villages. You are much more restricted as to what you can do on the multimodal paths and frequent stop are necessary with traffic and the entrances to the different Villages. The tunnels are dangerous and not a cardio opportunity for me. I also like to ride at a pretty good clip - something you can't do on the multimodal paths.

Actually, there is likely to be more cardio conditioning benefits from using tunnels and slowing and accelerating than just constant tempo. Studies have shown that intervals of higher anaerobic intensity, such as hill climbing and acceleration, increase cardio capacity more than constant aerobic intensity. As a cyclist (with a mirror), I have found I don't have better visual awareness behind, and on the side of me than I do in my car with side view and rear view mirrors. In fact, I find I have trouble turning my head far enough around to clearly see behind me and at the same time keep my eyes on the situation in front of me. How would you feel about requiring a license and registration with accompanying taxes and fees, just like motorcycles, to use the roadways?

[Walter123]

Why aren't all of you out riding your bikes today?

[CWGUY]

Share the road and pay attention!



Pretty much says it all..... I would add SLOW DOWN! :ohdear:

[tomwed]

\\\\

[biker1]

And I answered you - the neighborhood streets. I would not suggest a 12 year guest ride on Buena Vista anymore than I would let a 5 year old play with a gun. As for myself, I am perfectly comfortable riding on Buena Vista and consider it safer than the multimodal paths but caution is needed in the roundabouts. Just like caution is needed on the multimodal paths around every corner, in the tunnels, where they cross the Village entrances, where the paths split, where carts, cyclists, and runners all converge, etc. I think you get the idea.

I asked where you would recommend a 12 year old bike. Admittedly it was a loaded question. No one recommended a 12 year old ride on BV or Morse because it's more dangerous, entirely legal, but more dangerous. So what's good for the gosling is good for the goose.

[Bonanza]

That's your right.
But if you have young guests, 12 year olds, and they want to go biking, where would you advise them to ride?

If I had a 12-year old that wanted to go biking, I wouldn't let them go outside of my particular unit number within my own village, and I still wouldn't be happy with that.

Even with an adult going with them, I would not be happy outside of my own unit because of all the whack-jobs behind the wheel of the cars and golf carts.

You don't have a bike?
Problem solved!

[outlaw]

Why aren't all of you out riding your bikes today?
12 miles today.

[Bonanza]

Those who do not want bicycles on the road will never change their minds. Some just don't understand why a cyclist wants to ride on the road. Let me shed a little light on their reasoning. As a serious cyclist my husband and I rode about 2500 miles per year. That would be quite a task on the interior streets and multi modal paths. Most cyclist ride for cardio benifts. Riding thru tunnels, over speed bumps and around internal streets will not allow for a good cardio workout. It's true that some cyclist blow thru stop signs but so do other drivers. No, they should not do so but a cyclist doing so has a far better view of on coming traffic than other modes of transportation. IMO, Most claim that they worry about the cyclist Saftey but in most cases the cyclist just annoys them because they have to slow down or because it makes the driver nervous to pass them. As far as not paying for their share of road maintenance, cyclist also own vehicles and pay to drive those. Let's be reasonable. A 12 pound bike causes very little wear and tear on the roadway as compared to a 3000 pound vehicle. Share the road...it's the law. It's also the nice thing to do. Oh, and cyclist do get traffic citations just as other vehicles.

An excellent post, Perrjojo. And as far as bicycles paying any kind of road or licensing fee, ridiculous!
Bikes don't have anything to do with wear and tear on the roadways.

[outlaw]

There is no comparison in visual awareness between when I am riding and in my car. I can see much better when I am riding. My mirror is on the end of my drop bars and my helmet/sunglasses do not restrict my peripheral vision. Where is your mirror?

Regarding a cardio workout, the opportunities are much better on the roads than the multimodal paths. I can stand up and accelerate when I want and there are some hills in The Villages and north of The Villages. You are much more restricted as to what you can do on the multimodal paths and frequent stop are necessary with traffic and the entrances to the different Villages. The tunnels are dangerous and not a cardio opportunity for me. I also like to ride at a pretty good clip - something you can't do on the multimodal paths.

My mirror is on my top tube aimed between my legs. Before coming to TV, I would ride about 50-60 miles per week (2500 miles per yr), all on neighborhood streets with speeds up to 27 mph and averages for 10-15 miles 14 or 15 mph (including stops, slow downs, etc.). I have also ridden all over TV and can easily do 20 to 30 miles without riding on BVB with some pretty hilly rides, as you already know. If you think you need to ride on open roads to get a good workout, I suggest you wind through your neighborhood until you get on some of these local country roads outside of TV. You can ride for miles with maybe only see a few cars. I know, because I have done it. In my opinion, anyone that thinks riding BVB regularly with all the roundabouts and 70-80 year old seniors driving all over the place is safe just isn't thinking logically. It's the same logic as the motorcyclist that thinks riding with a helmet is less safe than with one because they claim the helmet impairs hearing and peripheral vision (which is not true). Anyway. Good luck; be safe.

[GaryW]

Why aren't all of you out riding your bikes today?

I rode 35 miles into work this morning at 4am....... So now I can sit here and read all this..

Cardio benefits are much greater on the open roads... the tunnels are have no affect or change to the cardio. They are not big enough to change any routine. The little rolling hills on Stillwater are nice little challenge and will hit your cardio hard when doing timed sprints on them.
But for overall cardio riding the open road is unmatched when you can do interval sprints when you want to. You can ride for the most part with out having to stop every mile or so, then the cardio benefits are much greater. On my long rides, we usually avg about 23 or so MPH. alot of times we are rolling at speeds up to 30 or more pushing pace for the work out. When you can do that for a extended period of time, then you will see the benefits. especially in the 100 mile ride range. Thus is why most cyclist that are in it for the workout as much as the fun will ride on the roads.

Now with that said,, I do not recommend young ones and the average beach cruiser rider to ride up and down Morse or Buena Vista, No Helment, no anything. Then only doing like 5 mph and wobbling along the road. Our group passed a gent on Buena Vista by Lake Sumter Landing the other day. He had on no helment,, regular shorts and T Shirt. We had to swerve way out because of he was like almost in middle of the outside lane. We were rolling near 25mph. Riders like that need to be on the MMP. For the most part when I am by myself I will go up on the MMP. But in a group, road all the way.
:bigbow::clap2::MOJE_whot:

[outlaw]

An excellent post, Perrjojo. And as far as bicycles paying any kind of road or licensing fee, ridiculous!
Bikes don't have anything to do with wear and tear on the roadways.

Licensing and fees are not just about wear and tear. It is about regulation, making sure your vehicle (cycle) is in proper working condition, maintenance of stop signs, warning signs, traffic lights, drainage improvements, beautification, NEW roads, better access, maybe even more attention to cycle friendly design, and on and on.

[biker1]

Many of my miles are outside of The Villages with the Sumter Landing Bike Club but I do ride a fair amount on Buena Vista getting to the meeting place and back plus other rides. I don't have any issues with Buena Vista but the roundabouts do require caution. I watch my rearview mirror. I ride 2000 miles per year.

My mirror is on my top tube aimed between my legs. Before coming to TV, I would ride about 50-60 miles per week (2500 miles per yr), all on neighborhood streets with speeds up to 27 mph and averages for 10-15 miles 14 or 15 mph (including stops, slow downs, etc.). I have also ridden all over TV and can easily do 20 to 30 miles without riding on BVB with some pretty hilly rides, as you already know. If you think you need to ride on open roads to get a good workout, I suggest you wind through your neighborhood until you get on some of these local country roads outside of TV. You can ride for miles with maybe only see a few cars. I know, because I have done it. In my opinion, anyone that thinks riding BVB regularly with all the roundabouts and 70-80 year old seniors driving all over the place is safe just isn't thinking logically. It's the same logic as the motorcyclist that thinks riding with a helmet is less safe than with one because they claim the helmet impairs hearing and peripheral vision (which is not true). Anyway. Good luck; be safe.

[Chazz]

The Villages was, recently, awarded the silver designation as a bike friendly community by The League of American Bicyclists. I wonder if the ranking committee ever read the posts on this forum?

[Chazz]

Why aren't all of you out riding your bikes today?

You're right, Walter! It was a beautiful day to ride and that is what I did...a pleasant 30 miler with 8 others in my recumbent bike club.

[yesi3putt2]

good question..bikes are allowed on all roads but golf carts aren't ...tractors and haybalers are allowed IF they display
an SLOW MOVING VEHICLE triangular shaped reflective sign on the back of their unit...but bikes aren't required to do that..I think that ALL bikes/recumbents and golfcarts should be REQUIRED to display that rectangular SLOW MOVING VEHICLE sign on the back of their vehicle

[Polar Bear]

The Villages was, recently, awarded the silver designation as a bike friendly community by The League of American Bicyclists. I wonder if the ranking committee ever read the posts on this forum?


I'm sure if they did they would take it for what it is...a very typical forum where a vocal minority can make anything sound worse than it really is.

[tomwed]

And I answered you - the neighborhood streets. I would not suggest a 12 year guest ride on Buena Vista anymore than I would let a 5 year old play with a gun. As for myself, I am perfectly comfortable riding on Buena Vista and consider it safer than the multimodal paths but caution is needed in the roundabouts. Just like caution is needed on the multimodal paths around every corner, in the tunnels, where they cross the Village entrances, where the paths split, where carts, cyclists, and runners all converge, etc. I think you get the idea.
You are right. I was thinking about what I wrote while I was shopping and then asked myself are there things that I do that I would not feel comfortable allowing a 12 year old to do. I apologise. Sometimes I get cought in the debate and forget about common sense.

[biker1]

No problem. If I was to give a single piece of advice to cars and golf carts regarding cyclists it would be "give them a lot of space".

You are right. I was thinking about what I wrote while I was shopping and then asked myself are there things that I do that I would not feel comfortable allowing a 12 year old to do. I apologise. Sometimes I get cought in the debate and forget about common sense.

[Bonanza]

An excellent post, Perrjojo. And as far as bicycles paying any kind of road or licensing fee, ridiculous!
Bikes don't have anything to do with wear and tear on the roadways.

Licensing and fees are not just about wear and tear. It is about regulation, making sure your vehicle (cycle) is in proper working condition, maintenance of stop signs, warning signs, traffic lights, drainage improvements, beautification, NEW roads, better access, maybe even more attention to cycle friendly design, and on and on.

I did not say that licensing fees had anything to do with wear and tear.
Note they are two separate sentences.

Why would anyone even consider a regulation or law regarding a bicycle being in "good shape" when we don't even have state inspection for cars?
The other things you mention are absurd and have nothing to do with bicycles.

[GaryW]

Licensing and fees are not just about wear and tear. It is about regulation, making sure your vehicle (cycle) is in proper working condition, maintenance of stop signs, warning signs, traffic lights, drainage improvements, beautification, NEW roads, better access, maybe even more attention to cycle friendly design, and on and on.

I believe the registration for my cars cover all of the above mentioned.. SO now you want me to pay on my bicycle also.
I guess we need to also come up with a registration fee for the roller bladers also who use the MMP and side streets. Maybe even a sneaker fee for the runners to help create friendly running paths in The Villages, but wait we already have so called friendly places for all, at least I thought. :ohdear:

If we need to make sure vehicles are safe, then we need to go back to the ole State yearly inspections.

[outlaw]

I believe the registration for my cars cover all of the above mentioned.. SO now you want me to pay on my bicycle also.
I guess we need to also come up with a registration fee for the roller bladers also who use the MMP and side streets. Maybe even a sneaker fee for the runners to help create friendly running paths in The Villages, but wait we already have so called friendly places for all, at least I thought. :ohdear:

If we need to make sure vehicles are safe, then we need to go back to the ole State yearly inspections.

I was just using the argument to point out that licensing and fees are not used solely for wear and tear. I'm not advocating registering bicycles.
Anyone using the MMP is supposed to be paying the amenity fee (I think). Some probably don't, but that is an enforcement issue. People pay extra fees to ride their motorcycle, scooter, even electric golf cart (Par Car NEV). By your logic, if someone has a licensed vehicle, then additional vehicles using the roads should not have to pay?

[outlaw]

I did not say that licensing fees had anything to do with wear and tear.
Note they are two separate sentences.

Why would anyone even consider a regulation or law regarding a bicycle being in "good shape" when we don't even have state inspection for cars?
The other things you mention are absurd and have nothing to do with bicycles.

I guess I misunderstood you comment. The way you put the two statements together, led me to think that they were somehow related.

[dirtbanker]

I believe the registration for my cars cover all of the above mentioned.. SO now you want me to pay on my bicycle also.


Yes I do! You are using and enjoying the road MORE having a car and a bicycle, Pay MORE for it. Seems fair to me...

If bicyclist were required to pay for license plates, they would have to display the plate on the bicycle. When they came to the line of cars waiting their turn at a 4 way stop intersection and the cyclist proceeded to rudely drive up the side of the vehicles already sitting there (of course he has his Lance Armstrong wannabe outfit on! :eek:), someone could video tape it on their phone, get the cyclist license plate number, and file a complaint with police.

I agree that there are nut jobs behind the wheel of some cars, but IMHO there seems to be a greater percentage of nut jobs on bicycles. Several times a year I experience bicyclist riding their bicycle down a windy 2 lane road during morning rush hour (people are trying to get to work on time!) and the bicyclist is waving at me to pass in a non passing zone were I can't see if anyone is coming from the other way. I don't trust that stranger's opinion weather there is enough room to pass...just ridiculous!

BTW - I have and ride a bicycle on occasion, and when I do, I ride on the bike path. I would not need to have license plates there...

[LndLocked]

and the wheels on the bus go round and round
round and round, round and round
and the wheels on the buss go round and round
all through TOTV

[GaryW]

and the wheels on the bus go round and round
round and round, round and round
and the wheels on the buss go round and round
all through TOTV

Now that is funny :coolsmiley:

[GaryW]

:ohdear::MOJE_whot::faint:Yes I do! You are using and enjoying the road MORE having a car and a bicycle, Pay MORE for it. Seems fair to me...

If bicyclist were required to pay for license plates, they would have to display the plate on the bicycle. When they came to the line of cars waiting their turn at a 4 way stop intersection and the cyclist proceeded to rudely drive up the side of the vehicles already sitting there (of course he has his Lance Armstrong wannabe outfit on! :eek:), someone could video tape it on their phone, get the cyclist license plate number, and file a complaint with police.

I agree that there are nut jobs behind the wheel of some cars, but IMHO there seems to be a greater percentage of nut jobs on bicycles. Several times a year I experience bicyclist riding their bicycle down a windy 2 lane road during morning rush hour (people are trying to get to work on time!) and the bicyclist is waving at me to pass in a non passing zone were I can't see if anyone is coming from the other way. I don't trust that stranger's opinion weather there is enough room to pass...just ridiculous!

BTW - I have and ride a bicycle on occasion, and when I do, I ride on the bike path. I would not need to have license plates there...

You have to get to the path some how,,, I know it does not come out of you front door,, so there fore you would be the first one pegged for a trail fee, :spoken:


If you require a bike registration, all bikes. Does not matter where you ride, you must have it. Not sure why anyone would think the law would not apply to them...
Might be a good idea after all,, all the fees raised go to building bike roads,, no cars allowed.:popcorn::faint:

[Chazz]

...BTW - I have and ride a bicycle on occasion, and when I do, I ride on the bike path. I would not need to have license plates there...

I bet you have to ride on your local street to get to the cart path.

[alzjr]

licence plate fees are by weight so how much is it for a 12 pound bike? $1.50 per year?

[perrjojo]

licence plate fees are by weight so how much is it for a 12 pound bike? $1.50 per year?
Good point. As I stated before, those annoyed by bicycles on the road will not change their mind. They just don't want bicycles there. It has nothing to do with fees or stop signs. It is not because they are worried about the cyclist saftey. IMO, it just is that bicycles slow them down and are an annoyance. I no longer ride and yes, sometime bicycles stress me but then I say to myself, "patience grasshopper".

[Chazz]

Good point. As I stated before, those annoyed by bicycles on the road will not change their mind. They just don't want bicycles there. It has nothing to do with fees or stop signs. It is not because they are worried about the cyclist saftey. IMO, it just is that bicycles slow them down and are an annoyance. I no longer ride and yes, sometime bicycles stress me but then I say to myself, "patience grasshopper".

Very well said! So sorry that you no longer ride.

[biker1]

This post is disturbing.

The so-called "Lance Armstrong wannabe" outfits are functional clothing designed for comfort (padded bike shorts) and visibility (brightly colored jerseys). Presumably you have contempt for other sports related clothing?

It has been my experience that the word "fair" is often used when someone has an opinion but no real facts/evidence to support their ideas. It is an emotional appeal that should be given no weight in an intelligent discussion.

So, how often do you record the license plate number of cars performing "rudely"? If I stopped to do this I would never arrive at my destination.

Calling people "nutjobs" reflects badly on you. I suggest you stop calling people names.

If someone waves you on and you do not believe it is safe to pass then don't. No comment is required. By the way, cars passing cyclists on 2-lane roads, where they cross a double solid line, is common, and illegal.

If you disagree with the existing laws then you should put in the time and effort to try to change them.

Yes I do! You are using and enjoying the road MORE having a car and a bicycle, Pay MORE for it. Seems fair to me...

If bicyclist were required to pay for license plates, they would have to display the plate on the bicycle. When they came to the line of cars waiting their turn at a 4 way stop intersection and the cyclist proceeded to rudely drive up the side of the vehicles already sitting there (of course he has his Lance Armstrong wannabe outfit on! :eek:), someone could video tape it on their phone, get the cyclist license plate number, and file a complaint with police.

I agree that there are nut jobs behind the wheel of some cars, but IMHO there seems to be a greater percentage of nut jobs on bicycles. Several times a year I experience bicyclist riding their bicycle down a windy 2 lane road during morning rush hour (people are trying to get to work on time!) and the bicyclist is waving at me to pass in a non passing zone were I can't see if anyone is coming from the other way. I don't trust that stranger's opinion weather there is enough room to pass...just ridiculous!

BTW - I have and ride a bicycle on occasion, and when I do, I ride on the bike path. I would not need to have license plates there...

[biker1]

I am not sure that you need to be paying an amenity fee to use the MMPs. It isn't clear to to me that you need a Villages id and that is the only evidence that you are paying an amenity fee (or are guest of someone who is or is on a lifestyle visit). Golf carts only pay a fee if they are "street legal" and can therefore use the 35 mph roads.

I was just using the argument to point out that licensing and fees are not used solely for wear and tear. I'm not advocating registering bicycles.
Anyone using the MMP is supposed to be paying the amenity fee (I think). Some probably don't, but that is an enforcement issue. People pay extra fees to ride their motorcycle, scooter, even electric golf cart (Par Car NEV). By your logic, if someone has a licensed vehicle, then additional vehicles using the roads should not have to pay?

[biker1]

Whenever I am driving, I enjoy seeing people out cycling regardless of whether they are zipping along at 25 mph or just cruising along taking in the scenery. I give cyclists the widest possible space when I pass and only pass when I can do so. I appreciate it when others do the same for me. The amount of effort it takes to be kind to cyclists is minimal, and so is the amount of time it takes.


Good point. As I stated before, those annoyed by bicycles on the road will not change their mind. They just don't want bicycles there. It has nothing to do with fees or stop signs. It is not because they are worried about the cyclist saftey. IMO, it just is that bicycles slow them down and are an annoyance. I no longer ride and yes, sometime bicycles stress me but then I say to myself, "patience grasshopper".

[dirtbanker]

This post is disturbing.

:1rotfl: