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birdawg
01-21-2015, 06:48 PM
Do you think the CHEATERS should get bounced out of the super bowl?

njbchbum
01-21-2015, 07:01 PM
YES!!! And the coach should be suspended for at least half of next season!

BobnBev
01-21-2015, 07:11 PM
Do you think the CHEATERS should get bounced out of the super bowl?

I don't follow football, is that the name of one of the teams?:undecided:

birdawg
01-21-2015, 07:18 PM
I don't follow football, is that the name of one of the teams?:undecided:
We are starting a movement to change the New England Patriots name to the New England Cheaters has a nice ring to it

Topspinmo
01-21-2015, 07:18 PM
I'm in the dark here? Do teams supply there own balls? and if so Doesn't the Referees inspect them? If so something wrong here. The referee's should be supplying the balls and they should be tested before the game starts and at half time. Air pressure effect by air temps. or leak. If both teams played with the same balls then what's the beef? Just cause they got blown out don't mean they get the win by ball under inflated by 1 or 2 pounds. Now if New England supplies their own balls, why wasn't they checked before the game started and if so why does team get to play with their balls. And Last the referee's handle the balls after each plays. if they were under inflated enough don't you think they come feel that? And if not the refereeing not that good IMO. Loosing always leaves bad taste and we look for reasons why we got or clocks cleaned!

cromlich
01-21-2015, 07:33 PM
Each team provides 12 balls for their use. The balls are inspected and then turned over to the team. Both teams do not play with the same balls unless a ball is intercepted. It's pretty obvious that foul play was in process at the game. The Ravens , also , protested about deflated balls against the Patriots. An official is the one who ? the deflation of the balls. It's not a sore loser. Belichick has been known for these kinds of antics in the past. Who knows what else he had done. If our team had done this we would be ashamed and expect punishment.

newguyintv
01-21-2015, 07:35 PM
Do you think the CHEATERS should get bounced out of the super bowl?

Wow! The Officials checked the balls prior to game time and said nothing. By the way, if indeed the balls were underinflated shouldn't that have helped the pitiful performance of the Colts as well. What nonsense!

birdawg
01-21-2015, 07:45 PM
Wow! The Officials checked the balls prior to game time and said nothing. By the way, if indeed the balls were underinflated shouldn't that have helped the pitiful performance of the Colts as well. What nonsense!
The answer is in post 6.

Miles42
01-21-2015, 07:47 PM
I do not like the Pats or their coach. That being said they could beaten the Colts with a wiffle ball.

Topspinmo
01-21-2015, 07:48 PM
"Each team provides 12 balls for their use. The balls are inspected and then turned over to the team. Both teams do not play with the same balls unless a ball is intercepted. It's pretty obvious that foul play was in process at the game. The Ravens , also , protested about deflated balls against the Patriots. An official is the one who ? the deflation of the balls. It's not a sore loser. Belichick has been known for these kinds of antics in the past. Who knows what else he had done. If our team had done this we would be ashamed and expect punishment. "



Well, That's poor refereeing by the NFL the TEAMS shouldn't have control of their balls. The NFL should be supplying the balls and the teams should have no contact with them other than warm up before the game, then after re-inspected and NONE while the game going on. Quarterbacks should be able to throw balls supplied not special balls they supplied IMO. Another reason why I lost interest in Pro Ball.

redwitch
01-21-2015, 08:00 PM
To say I loathe the Pats is probably putting it mildly. I've never forgiven them for the blizzard game against Miami where they plowed the field for their kicker. They are not, nor have they ever been, a class act in my book. One of my biggest disappointments was when Brady signed with them since I know him and his family. He could have chosen better. That he is willing to play with an under- inflated ball is a huge disappointment and I'm willing to bet his father is none to happy with him.

For those who don't quite get it, the balls were probably deflated a bit after they were checked. This makes it easier for a receiver to catch the ball. As to the NFL supplying the balls, it doesn't really work. Footballs are to be inflated to a certain criteria. Some QBs prefer an over-inflated ball, some a little less. To have the balls be exactly alike is akin to forcing baseball players to all use the same type and weight of bat or all bowlers to use a 19 lb. ball. Just doesn't work.

However, this, to me, is just another example of the Pats at their best. It is a shame that a win at any cost is the mentality of so many.

dbussone
01-21-2015, 08:24 PM
I do not like the Pats or their coach. That being said they could beaten the Colts with a wiffle ball.


I like the Pats. And you are still correct.

dbussone
01-21-2015, 08:29 PM
To say I loathe the Pats is probably putting it mildly. I've never forgiven them for the blizzard game against Miami where they plowed the field for their kicker. They are not, nor have they ever been, a class act in my book. One of my biggest disappointments was when Brady signed with them since I know him and his family. He could have chosen better. That he is willing to play with an under- inflated ball is a huge disappointment and I'm willing to bet his father is none to happy with him.

For those who don't quite get it, the balls were probably deflated a bit after they were checked. This makes it easier for a receiver to catch the ball. As to the NFL supplying the balls, it doesn't really work. Footballs are to be inflated to a certain criteria. Some QBs prefer an over-inflated ball, some a little less. To have the balls be exactly alike is akin to forcing baseball p,ayers to all use the type and weight of bat or all bowlers to use a 19 lb. ball. Just doesn't work.

However, this, to me, is just another example of the Pats at their best. It is a shame that a win at any cost is the mentality of so many.


Blah Blah. Blah. We have no idea what the truth is at this point. Get a grip. You sound like VPL. (Okay, I admit that is an over reach.) Red - I enjoy your posts.

janmcn
01-21-2015, 08:34 PM
It's not like this was a close game or that the Pats don't have the best quarterback in history. According to news reports, no decision will be announced until after the Super Bowl, and possibly some changes on ball control will be made at that time. Until then, don't let these charges deflate the interest in the big game.

cromlich
01-21-2015, 08:57 PM
Maybe it wasn't a close game but the momentum of the game has a lot to do with how it is played. Who's to say if the balls were not Deflated that the Pats would have played any better than the Colts.

KayakerNC
01-21-2015, 08:58 PM
As to the NFL supplying the balls, it doesn't really work. Footballs are to be inflated to a certain criteria. Some QBs prefer an over-inflated ball, some a little less. To have the balls be exactly alike is akin to forcing baseball players to all use the same type and weight of bat or all bowlers to use a 19 lb. ball. Just doesn't work.

But, don't baseball players all use the same ball? And basketball players? And soccer players?
So...why not football?

Mikeod
01-21-2015, 09:00 PM
I just heard a report on ESPN2 at halftime of the Wake Forest/North Carolina game that said that the refs noted the inflation problem at half time and had the Patriots supply 12 backup balls that apparently were properly inflated. I believe the Patriots did most of the damage in the second half. So maybe not as bad as it appears. :shrug:

dbussone
01-21-2015, 09:02 PM
I just heard a report on ESPN2 at halftime of the Wake Forest/North Carolina game that said that the refs noted the inflation problem at half time and had the Patriots supply 12 backup balls that apparently were properly inflated. I believe the Patriots did most of the damage in the second half. So maybe not as bad as it appears. :shrug:

We are BOSTON STRONG!

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-21-2015, 09:04 PM
I just heard a report on ESPN2 at halftime of the Wake Forest/North Carolina game that said that the refs noted the inflation problem at half time and had the Patriots supply 12 backup balls that apparently were properly inflated. I believe the Patriots did most of the damage in the second half. So maybe not as bad as it appears. :shrug:

Maybe they should just take away all of the points the Patriots scored in the first half then.

Of course they should also nullify the D'Qwell Jackson interception since that was also made with an under inflated ball.

Just toss out the entire first half.

CFrance
01-21-2015, 09:07 PM
Wow! The Officials checked the balls prior to game time and said nothing. By the way, if indeed the balls were underinflated shouldn't that have helped the pitiful performance of the Colts as well. What nonsense!
Not nonsense. Each team plays offense with their own 12 balls, unless there's an interception as was mentioned above.

The problem is that the balls are turned back to each team after being inspected. They showed on the evening news how easy it is to deflate a ball by a couple of pounds of pressure in a matter of a couple of seconds.

This too will get swept under the table by Goodell, is my guess. No way are they going to kick the Patriots out of the super bowl. The almighty dollar is the NFL's bottom line. Look how much time it took Goodell to destroy the evidence of the Patriots' videotaping when Congress was threatening to investigate.

With all their billions of dollars, the NFL can't appoint a ball tender to keep all the balls in his possession and dole them out as needed? Ridiculous.

dbussone
01-21-2015, 09:08 PM
Maybe they should just take away all of the points the Patriots scored in the first half then.

Hey...Doc...my cousin Vito had some skin on that game. Watch what you suggest.

dbussone
01-21-2015, 09:10 PM
Not nonsense. Each team plays offense with their own 12 balls, unless there's an interception as was mentioned above.

The problem is that the balls are turned back to each team after being inspected. They showed on the evening news how easy it is to deflate a ball by a couple of pounds of pressure in a matter of a couple of seconds.

This too will get swept under the table by Goodell, is my guess. No way are they going to kick the Patriots out of the super bowl. The almighty dollar is the NFL's bottom line. Look how much time it took Goodell to destroy the evidence of the Patriots' videotaping when Congress was threatening to investigate.

With all their billions of dollars, the NFL can't appoint a ball tender to keep all the balls in his possession and dole them out as needed? Ridiculous.

CFrance.. The Pats did have a ball tender. Have I ever told you about my cousin Vito? Go Pats.

cromlich
01-21-2015, 09:10 PM
Not nonsense. Each team plays offense with their own 12 balls, unless there's an interception as was mentioned above.

The problem is that the balls are turned back to each team after being inspected. They showed on the evening news how easy it is to deflate a ball by a couple of pounds of pressure in a matter of a couple of seconds.

This too will get swept under the table by Goodell, is my guess. No way are they going to kick the Patriots out of the super bowl. The almighty dollar is the NFL's bottom line. Look how much time it took Goodell to destroy the evidence of the Patriots' videotaping when Congress was threatening to investigate.

With all their billions of dollars, the NFL can't appoint a ball tender to keep all the balls in his possession and dole them out as needed? Ridiculous.

It's the integrity of the game that we are talking about. I so agree with you.

JoMar
01-21-2015, 09:10 PM
Each team provides 12 balls for their use. The balls are inspected and then turned over to the team. Both teams do not play with the same balls unless a ball is intercepted. It's pretty obvious that foul play was in process at the game. The Ravens , also , protested about deflated balls against the Patriots. An official is the one who ? the deflation of the balls. It's not a sore loser. Belichick has been known for these kinds of antics in the past. Who knows what else he had done. If our team had done this we would be ashamed and expect punishment.

Unless that actually did happen to your team

dbussone
01-21-2015, 09:13 PM
I think we are all getting a bit too serious until the results are in. This is like anticipating the State of the Union speech. Oops, sorry that was last night.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-21-2015, 09:14 PM
Not nonsense. Each team plays offense with their own 12 balls, unless there's an interception as was mentioned above.

The problem is that the balls are turned back to each team after being inspected. They showed on the evening news how easy it is to deflate a ball by a couple of pounds of pressure in a matter of a couple of seconds.

This too will get swept under the table by Goodell, is my guess. No way are they going to kick the Patriots out of the super bowl. The almighty dollar is the NFL's bottom line. Look how much time it took Goodell to destroy the evidence of the Patriots' videotaping when Congress was threatening to investigate.

With all their billions of dollars, the NFL can't appoint a ball tender to keep all the balls in his possession and dole them out as needed? Ridiculous.

Yes, it is ridiculous seeing as how this is fairly common practice among all NFL teams. Almost all of the quarterbacks have the balls set up how they like them. It's one of the unwritten rules. This time someone complained so the NFL has to do an investigation.

But you are right about one thing. With all of the billions of dollars the NFL makes, they should supply the balls for all the games. They should have a ball staff that inflates the balls and has people on the field to change them out when necessary.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-21-2015, 09:16 PM
Hey...Doc...my cousin Vito had some skin on that game. Watch what you suggest.

Tha Patriots were 6.5 point favorites. Taking away all of their first half points wouldn't have changed the bets except for the over under.

cromlich
01-21-2015, 09:26 PM
A report out Wednesday says the Baltimore Ravens tipped off the Indianapolis Colts before the AFC Championship game about the New England Patriots' use of deflated footballs.

Jay Glazer of FOX Sports says that the Colts knew about the deflated footballs coming into the game thanks to a tip from the Ravens, who fell to New England the week before in the divisional playoff round. As a result, the NFL was planning before the game to inspect the balls at halftime.

"The Indianapolis Colts, they were tipped off to before the game ever happened... I was told it was people... from the Baltimore Ravens," Glazer said.

Watch Glazer's comments below:


On Wednesday's edition of Pro Football Talk on NBCSN, Ravens defensive lineman Chris Canty made it clear that he felt the act of deflating footballs was cheating.

“The Patriots are habitual line-steppers,” Canty said, via ProFootballTalk.com. “If the allegations are true, then you are talking about attacking the integrity of our game and I have an issue with that. . . . [W]hat I’m going to say about the deflating of the balls, to me there is no difference than performance-enhancing drugs. You are cheating at that point. You are getting a competitive advantage outside of the rule book and there has to be some sort of consequences for that.

“To me, the integrity of the game is the most important thing. You want to be successful as a player but you want to think that you are doing things that are within the rules and that you are out there competing and it’s not, whether it is performance-enhancing drugs or deflated footballs that is out there aiding in your performance.”

dbussone
01-21-2015, 09:32 PM
A report out Wednesday says the Baltimore Ravens tipped off the Indianapolis Colts before the AFC Championship game about the New England Patriots' use of deflated footballs.

Jay Glazer of FOX Sports says that the Colts knew about the deflated footballs coming into the game thanks to a tip from the Ravens, who fell to New England the week before in the divisional playoff round. As a result, the NFL was planning before the game to inspect the balls at halftime.

"The Indianapolis Colts, they were tipped off to before the game ever happened... I was told it was people... from the Baltimore Ravens," Glazer said.

Watch Glazer's comments below:


On Wednesday's edition of Pro Football Talk on NBCSN, Ravens defensive lineman Chris Canty made it clear that he felt the act of deflating footballs was cheating.

“The Patriots are habitual line-steppers,” Canty said, via ProFootballTalk.com. “If the allegations are true, then you are talking about attacking the integrity of our game and I have an issue with that. . . . [W]hat I’m going to say about the deflating of the balls, to me there is no difference than performance-enhancing drugs. You are cheating at that point. You are getting a competitive advantage outside of the rule book and there has to be some sort of consequences for that.

“To me, the integrity of the game is the most important thing. You want to be successful as a player but you want to think that you are doing things that are within the rules and that you are out there competing and it’s not, whether it is performance-enhancing drugs or deflated footballs that is out there aiding in your performance.”


///

CFrance
01-21-2015, 09:41 PM
The ball tender should not be from either team. Should be a paid NFL official. Problem solved. That one, anyway...

dbussone
01-21-2015, 09:42 PM
The ball tender should not be from either team. Should be a paid NFL official. Problem solved. That one, anyway...


Excellent solution from a thoughtful mind.

cromlich
01-21-2015, 09:49 PM
Excellent solution from a thoughtful mind.

I'll third that

Topspinmo
01-21-2015, 09:50 PM
IMO that's why the balls need to be controlled by the NFL. All teams should be playing with the same ball. Beings I'm advanced tennis player would be like me using my own balls when I am serving cause I like the way the compress on the strings or the pop I get off the ground strokes and volleys. Again another 99 reasons I lost interest in Pro football.

DougB
01-21-2015, 10:16 PM
The Patriots don't know about Ballagra? At my age, I've been playing with deflated balls for years. That's why I got Ballagra. Pats should be notified of the side effects and not use Ballagra if they have any kind of heart condition.

CFrance
01-21-2015, 11:09 PM
The Patriots don't know about Ballagra? At my age, I've been playing with deflated balls for years. That's why I got Ballagra. Pats should be notified of the side effects and not use Ballagra if they have any kind of heart condition.
And if they experience an inflated ball for four hours they should seek medical help.

graciegirl
01-21-2015, 11:11 PM
And if they experience an inflated ball for four hours they should seek medical help.


Or call the newspapers.

SALYBOW
01-21-2015, 11:36 PM
I'm in the dark here? Do teams supply there own balls? and if so Doesn't the Referees inspect them? If so something wrong here. The referee's should be supplying the balls and they should be tested before the game starts and at half time. Air pressure effect by air temps. or leak. If both teams played with the same balls then what's the beef? Just cause they got blown out don't mean they get the win by ball under inflated by 1 or 2 pounds. Now if New England supplies their own balls, why wasn't they checked before the game started and if so why does team get to play with their balls. And Last the referee's handle the balls after each plays. if they were under inflated enough don't you think they come feel that? And if not the refereeing not that good IMO. Loosing always leaves bad taste and we look for reasons why we got or clocks cleaned!

The balls were inspected two hours before the game but were returned to the teams 1 hour before. The thing that confuses me is don;t both teams use the same balls?

CFrance
01-21-2015, 11:40 PM
The balls were inspected two hours before the game but were returned to the teams 1 hour before. The thing that confuses me is don;t both teams use the same balls?
No, each team has 12 balls and uses their own balls on offense.

Indy-Guy
01-22-2015, 09:07 AM
I am from Indianapolis. There is no way that the deflated balls had any influence on the outcome of the game.

Are we led to believe that since the deflated balls situation did occur and had no influence on a lopsided game that it should just be ignored? Then how about the week before when the Patriots defeated Baltimore by 4 points. Ask a Baltimore fan what they think.

The poor Patriots they cheat only twice in the 14 years that William Stephen Belichick is head coach and get caught both times. They just aren't very lucky.

I had two conversations with very strong Patriots fans yesterday and I asked both of them who was the head coach of the Patriots before Belichick. Neither could tell me. One even said that he must not be much of a coach if he couldn't remember him.

The previous Patriots head coach was Pete Carroll the head coach of the Seattle Seahawks. We all know Pete never cheated at Southern Cal.

birdawg
01-22-2015, 09:11 AM
We are BOSTON STRONG!
That slogan is not meant to defend CHEATERS!

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-22-2015, 09:30 AM
I'm truly amazed at the hate being spewed out, not only here but on several websites, newspapers, radio and television programs. I would think that most people would wait for some absolute PROOF that the someone from the Patriots organization deliberately and intentionally under inflated the balls.

But no. An allegation has been made and based on that, people want to bounce them from the Super Bowl.

This whole thing is ridiculous. But, among the thousands of articles that have been published on this, I found one that talks about how messing with the ball inflation is common practice in the NFL. All the teams do it and everyone knows about it including the commissioner. The rule is broken all the time and the league looks the other way. It has been going on for years. Now that it has been exposed, the league is going to have to play CYA. They are now looking for some way to handle this from a public relations standpoint.

I'm amazed for how much hatred there is of The Patriots. I guess that it comes with the territory of being on top.

This as been one of the best and classiest organizations in the history of professional sports. From the owner all the way down to the ball boys, this organization has been a model for other sports teams.

But because the league has screwed up over the years, they are going to have to blame someone and The Patriots and their coach will probably take a hit just like they did in that phony spygate case ten years ago.

So go ahead and spew the venom. The Patriots and their fans will embrace it and continue to win football games.

But anyone who thinks that this franchise has won more football games than any other over the past 14 years because they took some video of an opponent from a few yards away from where it's allowed, or a few footballs were under inflated by a couple of pounds is thinking with their hearts and not their heads.
This is one of the greatest teams in the history of the NFL. They have what many believe to be the greatest coach and greatest quarterback in history. All of the players work their tails off to win games and it's a shame that a stupid allegation overshadows that fact with some people.

redwitch
01-22-2015, 09:40 AM
It's a bigger shame that a great team has to stoop to the antics that the Pats have used over the years. They don't need the extra edge, so why do they consistently go for it? A class act would have kept the balls within the guidelines. A class act wouldn't resort to spying on their opponents. A class act plows the field for both sides, not just their own. Sorry, but you'll never convince me that the Pats have class.

They do have a great team, a great coach and a great quarterback. It's a shame that isn't enough for them.

KeepingItReal
01-22-2015, 09:46 AM
I'm truly amazed at the hate being spewed out, not only here but on several websites, newspapers, radio and television programs. I would think that most people would wait for some absolute PROOF that the someone from the Patriots organization deliberately and intentionally under inflated the balls.

But no. An allegation has been made and based on that, people want to bounce them from the Super Bowl.

This whole thing is ridiculous. But, among the thousands of articles that have been published on this, I found one that talks about how messing with the ball inflation is common practice in the NFL. All the teams do it and everyone knows about it including the commissioner. The rule is broken all the time and the league looks the other way. It has been going on for years. Now that it has been exposed, the league is going to have to play CYA. They are now looking for some way to handle this from a public relations standpoint.

I'm amazed for how much hatred there is of The Patriots. I guess that it comes with the territory of being on top.

This as been one of the best and classiest organizations in the history of professional sports. From the owner all the way down to the ball boys, this organization has been a model for other sports teams.

But because the league has screwed up over the years, they are going to have to blame someone and The Patriots and their coach will probably take a hit just like they did in that phony spygate case ten years ago.

So go ahead and spew the venom. The Patriots and their fans will embrace it and continue to win football games.

But anyone who thinks that this franchise has won more football games than any other over the past 14 years because they took some video of an opponent from a few yards away from where it's allowed, or a few footballs were under inflated by a couple of pounds is thinking with their hearts and not their heads.
This is one of the greatest teams in the history of the NFL. They have what many believe to be the greatest coach and greatest quarterback in history. All of the players work their tails off to win games and it's a shame that a stupid allegation overshadows that fact with some people.

Totally agree, very well said..:BigApplause:

Hancle704
01-22-2015, 10:33 AM
I find it amazing that all of the experts have commented about what has been alleged here and that there is no mention that only the Pats Coach knows about the way an underinflated football is different. Many Pro and College teams play every season in conditions that such a ball might help their team and this has not come up until the Pats won. With all of the technology that has been introduced I find it interesting that there was no way to detect this while the game was being played especially since the ball is placed at line after each play. BTW, I am not a Pats fan.

CFrance
01-22-2015, 10:47 AM
I find it amazing that all of the experts have commented about what has been alleged here and that there is no mention that only the Pats Coach knows about the way an underinflated football is different. Many Pro and College teams play every season in conditions that such a ball might help their team and this has not come up until the Pats won. With all of the technology that has been introduced I find it interesting that there was no way to detect this while the game was being played especially since the ball is placed at line after each play. BTW, I am not a Pats fan.
Actually, I wonder if it was detected, at least during the Indy game. I remember a ref blowing his whistle before a ball snap and changing the football out for another one. The announcers opined that perhaps they had a punting ball rather than a playing ball. But maybe it was an underinflated ball.

Off topic, but I wonder... are any of those posters who want the Patriots to be kicked out of the super bowl or severely punished the same people who voted to put Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame?

This is going to be the most-watched super bowl ever! So good hype job by the NFL.

shcisamax
01-22-2015, 10:56 AM
Each team provides 12 balls for their use. The balls are inspected and then turned over to the team.

Why didn't the person who was inspecting notice?

Miles42
01-22-2015, 11:00 AM
Really easy the inspection is done then the Balls are returned to the team. Then it is rather easy to alter the inflation rate.

MarkinMd
01-22-2015, 11:04 AM
You can't remove any team from the super bowl at this point. It wouldn't be fair to fans who have paid major dollars for tickets, hotel rooms, airfare, etc. Let the investigation begin and see how it plays out. Right now it is an allegation. If they are found guilty come up with a reasonable punishment, if not guilty move on.
The next area of question would how to avoid this in the future. One possible solution is after a team scores check the ball. If their is a violation, the score is nullified and an unsportsmanlike penalty is given. (I don't think it will add time to the game because all scoring plays are reviewed anyway. )

redwitch
01-22-2015, 11:19 AM
Personally, I wouldn't want them barred from playing in the Super Bowl regardless. Under inflating gives a slight edge. Fine them and change the rules as needed. They're a great team and even I can't take that fact away from them!

I like the idea of checking the ball after a score. Leave the balls in possession of the teams as now. Put in writing minimum/maximum inflation/deflation allowed. Have a hefty fine if guidelines not followed and take away the scored points. Great idea, Mark!

JRichm369
01-22-2015, 11:24 AM
This all falls in the lap of the NFL, There is a rule on acceptable tolerance of ball inflation, if they have this rule then they need to enforce it, if they do not wish to enforce it, then they should eliminate the rule.
The NFL makes an issue if the players are not choir boys they fine them suspend them bar them from any and all future involvement. However they do not supervise and enforce other rules that also impact the integrity of the game.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-22-2015, 12:51 PM
It's a bigger shame that a great team has to stoop to the antics that the Pats have used over the years. They don't need the extra edge, so why do they consistently go for it? A class act would have kept the balls within the guidelines. A class act wouldn't resort to spying on their opponents. A class act plows the field for both sides, not just their own. Sorry, but you'll never convince me that the Pats have class.

They do have a great team, a great coach and a great quarterback. It's a shame that isn't enough for them.

Consistently gone for it? Consistently cheated? What a load of crap.

First of all, the snowplow incident was found to be completely in line with the NFL rules at the time. Secondly, that was a different coach, different players, different management and different ownership.

The spy gate nonsense was just that. They were allowed to tape the other teams practices, just not from where they did. Had the videographer been a few yards from where he was, there would have been no violation. All the teams film their opponents practices. The fine and penalties were just another instance of Goodell trying to save face. He knew that what the Patriots did was a minor technical violation of the rules, but the media made such a huge deal of it that he felt that he needed to do something.

This last incident is exactly the same thing. He knows all of the teams do it and have done it forever. He knows that the league has been allowing teams to bend the rules and he has to somehow cover that up and make the league look good. Like many people said, if the league had any common sense they would have been supply balls and ball handlers for every game. Instead they allow this to happen.

Now I find out today that Jim Harbaugh, the Raven's coach and perhaps the biggest crybaby in all of sports, alerted the NFL that the Patriots were playing with under inflated balls. That's nothing but being a sore loser. He also embarrassed himself by crying that The Patriots were running illegal plays when they were perfectly legal plays. He should have shut up and he wouldn't have brought so much attention to the fact that he was out coached.

The Patriots have always done everything by the book and with class. Two minor incidents that could have called on every team in the NFL has the media and fans of other teams up in arms.

Like I said, being hated just comes with the territory when you're the best.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-22-2015, 01:03 PM
Actually, I wonder if it was detected, at least during the Indy game. I remember a ref blowing his whistle before a ball snap and changing the football out for another one. The announcers opined that perhaps they had a punting ball rather than a playing ball. But maybe it was an underinflated ball.

Off topic, but I wonder... are any of those posters who want the Patriots to be kicked out of the super bowl or severely punished the same people who voted to put Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame?

This is going to be the most-watched super bowl ever! So good hype job by the NFL.

Jim Harbaugh, the Baltimore Ravens' coach and well known cry baby reportedly notified the NFL to look out for under inflated balls.

If that's the case, why would the NFL not have made certain that the balls were right at game time?

Pete Rose was convicted and found guilty of violating the rules. The Patriots have been found guilty of nothing. There is simply an allegation. There is not one scintilla of proof that they knowingly and purposely under inflated balls.

Like I said, take away all of the points the the Patriots scored in the first half and the D'Qwell Jackson interception and The Patriots are still going to the Super Bowl.

If Harbaugh believed that balls were under inflated the previous week, why wouldn't he have brought it up then? That game, by the way was played in relatively warm, dry conditions.

Harbaugh can't win big games so he whines.

Chi-Town
01-22-2015, 01:07 PM
Jim Harbaugh, the Baltimore Ravens' coach and well known cry baby reportedly notified the NFL to look out for under inflated balls.

If that's the case, why would the NFL not have made certain that the balls were right at game time?

Pete Rose was convicted and found guilty of violating the rules. The Patriots have been found guilty of nothing. There is simply an allegation. There is not one scintilla of proof that they knowingly and purposely under inflated balls.

Like I said, take away all of the points the the Patriots scored in the first half and the D'Qwell Jackson interception and The Patriots are still going to the Super Bowl.

If Harbaugh believed that balls were under inflated the previous week, why wouldn't he have brought it up then? That game, by the way was played in relatively warm, dry conditions.

Harbaugh can't win big games so he whines.
I think you meant John Harbaugh. I had to watch Jim quarterback the Bears. No fun either.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-22-2015, 01:09 PM
I am from Indianapolis. There is no way that the deflated balls had any influence on the outcome of the game.

Are we led to believe that since the deflated balls situation did occur and had no influence on a lopsided game that it should just be ignored? Then how about the week before when the Patriots defeated Baltimore by 4 points. Ask a Baltimore fan what they think.

The poor Patriots they cheat only twice in the 14 years that William Stephen Belichick is head coach and get caught both times. They just aren't very lucky.

I had two conversations with very strong Patriots fans yesterday and I asked both of them who was the head coach of the Patriots before Belichick. Neither could tell me. One even said that he must not be much of a coach if he couldn't remember him.

The previous Patriots head coach was Pete Carroll the head coach of the Seattle Seahawks. We all know Pete never cheated at Southern Cal.

They couldn't been true Patriots fans not to know that Pete Carrol was the coach before Belichick and that Bill Parcels was before him.

They not remember Dick McPherson who was terrible before Parcells, but they should at least remember Raymond Berry back in the 80s who took the Pats to their first Super Bowl. Hel, I remember Lou Saban and Mike Holovak.

What is the point of that comment anyway?

dbussone
01-22-2015, 01:29 PM
That slogan is not meant to defend CHEATERS!


It's not. And you know what about Boston?

DonH57
01-22-2015, 02:16 PM
The only factor in the colts /patriots game was the **** poor performance of the colts. I'm lost as how inflation of the ball had to do with the fact Luck got intercepted three times. Every team has either over or under inflated the balls. This has been going on for years. Old news.

rubicon
01-22-2015, 03:12 PM
Really I believe the only response to this allegation which is appearing more and more to be substantiated is disappointment. A true sports fan must be dismayed learning that in place of sportsman like and fair play conduct that a team or teams have to stooped so low.

I slowly pulled away from watching sports the first time I heard Frank
Gifford comment as he watched a player doing a dance after scoring a touchdown "Don't you think you ought to act like you been there before?"

Frank Gifford was right and not much has been right with this game any longer.

Regarding this allegation if true, then every member of the Pat's team are complicit.

The Super Bowl will go forward as planned if for no other reason than money. Like the police officers did to de Blasio I will also turn my back on the Pats, err turn the channel. If the Pats win the Super Bowl it will be a hollow victory

John_W
01-22-2015, 04:14 PM
Jim Harbaugh, the Baltimore Ravens' coach and well known cry baby reportedly notified the NFL to look out for under inflated balls...

...If Harbaugh believed that balls were under inflated the previous week, why wouldn't he have brought it up then? That game, by the way was played in relatively warm, dry conditions.

Harbaugh can't win big games so he whines.

Most message boards require the poster to provide a links when you quote facts.

Here's a link NFL to interview Bill Belichick's staff NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/interception-tipped-colts-deflated-ball-report-article-1.2085314)

"Multiple reports highlighted Colts linebacker D'Qwell Jackson's interception as the point when Indianapolis suspected the balls used in the title game were deflated. The pick came in the second quarter on a pass intended for tight end Rob Gronkowski.

According to Newsday, Jackson gave the ball to a member of the Colts' equipment staff, who noticed the ball seemed underinflated. The equipment staffer then notified coach Chuck Pagano. General manager Ryan Grigson was notified in the press box, and he contacted Mike Kensil, NFL director of football operations."

First off, the above comments from Newsday indicate that Colts linebacker D'Qwell Jackson was the person who brought out the issue of the deflated balls, not John Harbaugh. Don't confuse him with the coach of Michigan, Jim Harbaugh.

Secondly, the only well known cry-baby in either playoff game is the one everybody knows, Tom Brady. He constantly whines to the officials and has on many occasions gotten a roughing the passer call for an insignicant hit. Something that you almost never see from Joe Flacco or Andrew Luck.

I wouldn't at all be surprised that Brady was the one who paid to have the balls deflated. Just this week former Bucs QB Brad Johnson admitted paying $7500 to have the balls in Super Bowl XXXVII tampered with. Link Ex-NFL QB admits paying people | Las Vegas Review-Journal (http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/football/ex-nfl-qb-admits-paying-people-tamper-2003-super-bowl-balls)

Third, Harbaugh can't win the big game? Did you forget the two New England home playoff loses to Baltimore? Had Gary Kubiak not made a blunder of a call, with the Ravens marching down the field and crossing midfield with a minute and a half left on the clock, calling for a deep pass into the endzone was a terrible call. So the Patriots won that game by 4 points, very lucky and was almost their third home playoff loss to the Ravens The team that can't win the big one? Think back now, two years ago, Super Bowl XXXVII who won?

Fourth, John Harbaugh as late as yesterday, said he saw nothing wrong with the balls used in their playoff game. Link Ravens did not notice anything about Patriots footballs, John Harbaugh says - Baltimore Sun (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baltimore-sports-blog/bal-ravens-did-not-notice-anything-about-patriots-footballs-being-deflated-john-harbaugh-said-20150121-story.html)

Bruiser1
01-22-2015, 04:27 PM
Each team provides 12 balls for their use. The balls are inspected and then turned over to the team. Both teams do not play with the same balls unless a ball is intercepted. It's pretty obvious that foul play was in process at the game. The Ravens , also , protested about deflated balls against the Patriots. An official is the one who ? the deflation of the balls. It's not a sore loser. Belichick has been known for these kinds of antics in the past. Who knows what else he had done. If our team had done this we would be ashamed and expect punishment.check

To late , Bellicheck, Troy Aiken, John Madden, and the Ball Boy have all thrown Brady under the bus.

Now if Goodell uses his banishment for life Policy ..(Rice ,Peterson etal) BRADY will be banished. (But that won't happen to the Patriots).

DonH57
01-22-2015, 05:05 PM
So if a ball involved in a turnover was reported to an official to be altered what was done by the NFL at that moment in time? In an imperfect world how can the NFL know who altered the balls? I believe today I read that Aaron Rogers overinflated their balls to make it easier to throw. In officiating games the league needs to enforce the rules fairly.

BobandMary
01-22-2015, 05:17 PM
This is a great marketing tool to get people to watch the Super Bowl.

CFrance
01-22-2015, 05:18 PM
Jim Harbaugh, the Baltimore Ravens' coach and well known cry baby reportedly notified the NFL to look out for under inflated balls.

If that's the case, why would the NFL not have made certain that the balls were right at game time?

Pete Rose was convicted and found guilty of violating the rules. The Patriots have been found guilty of nothing. There is simply an allegation. There is not one scintilla of proof that they knowingly and purposely under inflated balls.

Like I said, take away all of the points the the Patriots scored in the first half and the D'Qwell Jackson interception and The Patriots are still going to the Super Bowl.

If Harbaugh believed that balls were under inflated the previous week, why wouldn't he have brought it up then? That game, by the way was played in relatively warm, dry conditions.

Harbaugh can't win big games so he whines.
You totally misinterpreted my point regarding Pete Rose.

And I thought the Ravens DID complain about underinflated balls. They certainly tipped the Colts off about it. I guess maybe it took it happening twice to get the NFL to stand up and take notice.

It's understandable that Patriots fans are going to stand up for their team. It's also possible that this goes on everywhere and they were just too blatant about it. (It was stated today that 11 out of 12 of their game balls were underinflated.) Same thing with the videotaping. Many have said everyone does it but the Patriots were overly blatant about it.

I fault the NFL and the rather spineless Goodell for not ensuring that the game is played without cheating.

janmcn
01-22-2015, 05:40 PM
There has to be like a gazillion security cameras inside Gillette Stadium, especially in the locker room and ball room, so play the tapes and see who tampered with the footballs.

Shimpy
01-22-2015, 06:11 PM
To say I loathe the Pats is probably putting it mildly. I've never forgiven them for the blizzard game against Miami where they plowed the field for their kicker..
I remember that game well redwitch since I was living in Miami.....Don Shula refers to the coach as Bill Bella-a-cheat.
It's a fact of life whether you want to believe it or not but when millions are riding on a game whatever the sport, cheating will always be an option if they think they can get away with it.

gomoho
01-22-2015, 06:36 PM
This is a great marketing tool to get people to watch the Super Bowl.

or not...

PennBF
01-22-2015, 06:44 PM
Of course they should be disqualified from the Super Bowl, etc. If you marked the slots on the head of our golf clubs before a tournament you would be disqualified, if you put tar on the bat or marked a basball you would be disqualified, If you used a non regulation racket, etc in tennis you would be disqualified, if you gave a horse an enhancement drug you would be disqualified, if you used non standard ski equipment you would be disqualified or went outside the gates you would be disqualified, if you used a non approved engine in racing you would be disqualified, and many many etc's. So tell me why cheating in pro football would not justify being disqualified. You would be disqualified if you signed a golf score card that did not represent your true score. The fact that they beat them by a large score is not important. They cheated and in fact by scoring as much as they did they mose likely cheated a number football pool and individual bets as they changed the betting spread. OF COURSE they will not be disqualified as money will rule and the courage to do the right thing is not there. Too bad they again lowered the bar on their reputation but they don't care as the money is what is important.:ohdear:

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-22-2015, 07:59 PM
Of course they should be disqualified from the Super Bowl, etc. If you marked the slots on the head of our golf clubs before a tournament you would be disqualified, if you put tar on the bat or marked a basball you would be disqualified, If you used a non regulation racket, etc in tennis you would be disqualified, if you gave a horse an enhancement drug you would be disqualified, if you used non standard ski equipment you would be disqualified or went outside the gates you would be disqualified, if you used a non approved engine in racing you would be disqualified, and many many etc's. So tell me why cheating in pro football would not justify being disqualified. You would be disqualified if you signed a golf score card that did not represent your true score. The fact that they beat them by a large score is not important. They cheated and in fact by scoring as much as they did they mose likely cheated a number football pool and individual bets as they changed the betting spread. OF COURSE they will not be disqualified as money will rule and the courage to do the right thing is not there. Too bad they again lowered the bar on their reputation but they don't care as the money is what is important.:ohdear:

First of all, in order to call this cheating and take action it has to be PROVEN that this was done INTENTIONALLY. That is not even close to the case.

Secondly, if you've been following this, you know that the balls were replaced with legal balls in the second half. If you take away all of the points The Patriots scored in the first half, ( you should also take away the Colts interception by the way, since it was made with an illegal ball) they still would have won the game and beaten the point spread by 15 and a half points.

Even if it is found that this was done intentionally by a member of them team, there have been a number of former quarterbacks who say that it's common practice throughout the league. It is technically a violation of the rules, but the league has been looking the other way for decades. Now, all of a sudden they're going to start enforcing a rule that hasn't been enforced for decades because a whining Baltimore coach brings it up?

dbussone
01-22-2015, 08:11 PM
Thank you. Another rational mind.

DonH57
01-22-2015, 08:36 PM
We enjoyed watching most of the game on the cruise ship. Lots of us wearing jerseys from Green Bay, Seattle, New England, and Indianapolis. Televisions all over the ship. You could hear cheering all over the ship during the games but never from the casino.LOL. I want to say the colts fans showed a lot of class taking the loss gracefully. Just a game. On any given sunday!

PennBF
01-22-2015, 08:39 PM
As we all know Fran was an outstanding NFL quarterback with many many wins and awards. They interviewed him today and his assessment was that not one QB every allowed the crew to control the balls. Not one QB did not know the
feel of the ball and whether it was within limits. He felt that of course NE knew the ball was not legal and the Coach tried to throw the QB under the bus and the QB tried to throw the crew under the bus. This was not NE's first violation and it would be naive to believe they would not violate again to get into the Superbowl. I have great faith in what Fran was saying as he has been there and knows the circumstances. Regarding proof: It is proven the ball(s) were not legal that has been substaniated, it has been recognized that both the Coach, who is respoinsible for the team and QB who directs the plays and has the most knowledge of the ball are responsbile for all aspects of the game. If there has been a violation of the rules who else should be help responsible. Certaintly not the tight end, the center, etc. The QB today admitted the ball(s) were not in
line with the rules. Enough said.:ohdear:

T-325
01-22-2015, 09:25 PM
No one has mentioned the referees who place the ball back on the field after every play. Why didn't one of them notice the under-inflated condition.

Go Pats

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-22-2015, 09:31 PM
As we all know Fran was an outstanding NFL quarterback with many many wins and awards. They interviewed him today and his assessment was that not one QB every allowed the crew to control the balls. Not one QB did not know the
feel of the ball and whether it was within limits. He felt that of course NE knew the ball was not legal and the Coach tried to throw the QB under the bus and the QB tried to throw the crew under the bus. This was not NE's first violation and it would be naive to believe they would not violate again to get into the Superbowl. I have great faith in what Fran was saying as he has been there and knows the circumstances. Regarding proof: It is proven the ball(s) were not legal that has been substaniated, it has been recognized that both the Coach, who is respoinsible for the team and QB who directs the plays and has the most knowledge of the ball are responsbile for all aspects of the game. If there has been a violation of the rules who else should be help responsible. Certaintly not the tight end, the center, etc. The QB today admitted the ball(s) were not in
line with the rules. Enough said.:ohdear:

A violation of the rules would occur only if someone on the the team, knowingly and deliberately deflated the balls. We don't know that that's the case.

Even if that is the case, as I've stated before, several former NFL QBs have come forth and stated that this is standard practice in the NFL. Everyone does it and it has been allowed by the NFL for decades. In fact a Super Bowl winning quarterback admitted he did it in the Super Bowl that he won. For the NFL to suddenly decide that they are going to enforce this rule would be totally unreasonable.

Some QBS have come out and said that they would know the difference immediately and others have said there is no way that anyone could tell a 16% difference in PSI. Who are we to believe. There are many "experts" coming out with different opinions. Until the NFL has done their investigation and come to a conclusion, I think that everyone should cool it and stop jumping to conclusions.

Average Guy
01-22-2015, 09:34 PM
No one has mentioned the referees who place the ball back on the field after every play. Why didn't one of them notice the under-inflated condition.

Go Pats

According to Mike Florio from NBC Sports, "as to the fact that the officials didn’t notice anything wrong with the balls while handling them after every play, the [league] source explains that a pressure difference of one or two pounds would not be obvious, if the official is not specifically looking for it."

Source: Footballs were properly checked before Colts-Patriots game | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/source-footballs-were-properly-checked-before-colts-patriots-game/)

DonH57
01-22-2015, 09:44 PM
No one has mentioned the referees who place the ball back on the field after every play. Why didn't one of them notice the under-inflated condition.

Go Pats

Because they handle the balls all the time and whether the ball had ten or ten and half psi it would have absolutetly nothing to do with the outcome of either teams performance. It's amazing to me people are still obsessing over it.:popcorn:

slipcovers
01-22-2015, 09:47 PM
According to Mike Florio from NBC Sports, "as to the fact that the officials didn’t notice anything wrong with the balls while handling them after every play, the [league] source explains that a pressure difference of one or two pounds would not be obvious, if the official is not specifically looking for it."

Source: Footballs were properly checked before Colts-Patriots game | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/source-footballs-were-properly-checked-before-colts-patriots-game/)

According to a news reporter, 2# of air weights about the same as a standard white business envelope, that he held in his hand.

dbussone
01-22-2015, 09:53 PM
Because they handle the balls all the time and whether the ball had ten or ten and half psi it would have absolutetly nothing to do with the outcome of either teams performance. It's amazing to me people are still obsessing over it.:popcorn:

Amen. Another reasonable person.

dbussone
01-22-2015, 09:58 PM
According to a news reporter, 2# of air weights about the same as a standard white business envelope, that he held in his hand.

So...we should check the Patriots postal scale? I've had enough of this bologna.

slipcovers
01-22-2015, 10:17 PM
So...we should check the Patriots postal scale? I've had enough of this bologna.

No....you should wait for proof before laying blame on anyone. That's your bolognie.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-23-2015, 07:51 AM
According to a news reporter, 2# of air weights about the same as a standard white business envelope, that he held in his hand.

It's not about the weight of the balls, it's about their hardness or softness. We're talking about 2 lb PSI. Not two pounds of weight. The amount of air necessary to achieve 2 lb PSI varies depending on the size of the object that is inflated.

dbussone
01-23-2015, 08:17 AM
No....you should wait for proof before laying blame on anyone. That's your bolognie.

If you take the time to read my posts you'll learn I haven't blamed anyone. My bologna reference was to the others who have placed blame, and the postal scale reference was done tongue in cheek. (I grew up in MA)

PennBF
01-23-2015, 08:17 AM
We're talking about millionaires playing a game that people pay to see. These are not highschool players having fun for their school. It is kind of naive to get any emotions involved. I have a hard time understanding cheering for a professional team. It is fun to watch but I did not win or loose a game I just observed watching a group of millionaires fighting to make more money. Again, it is interesting to see the skills they have BUT I keep in mind I am just an observer of a game that I did not play in, win or loose. Being honest I have a hard time understanding people who get emotionally involved beyond fun to watch in a game of millionaires playing a game which is all money. :ohdear:

DonH57
01-23-2015, 09:46 AM
We're talking about millionaires playing a game that people pay to see. These are not highschool players having fun for their school. It is kind of naive to get any emotions involved. I have a hard time understanding cheering for a professional team. It is fun to watch but I did not win or loose a game I just observed watching a group of millionaires fighting to make more money. Again, it is interesting to see the skills they have BUT I keep in mind I am just an observer of a game that I did not play in, win or loose. Being honest I have a hard time understanding people who get emotionally involved beyond fun to watch in a game of millionaires playing a game which is all money. :ohdear:

For me there is nothing more fun than watching the game with others is the food and drink, yelling, screaming, and pounding on tables like chimpanezes really bring out the neanderthal in most of us.:a040:

Indy-Guy
01-23-2015, 09:58 AM
Below is an article from NBCSports.com as to how the rules changed after 2006 on the handling of the fooballs. Link to complete article below.



Brady pushed for rule to let visiting team provide own footballs

Posted by Michael David Smith on January 22, 2015, 11:37 AM EST
Tom Brady
AP

Patriots quarterback Tom Brady has long wanted control over the footballs he throws, to the point where he was the driving force behind a rules change that allowed visiting teams to provide their own footballs, rather than having both teams use footballs provided by the home team.

In 2006, Brady and Peyton Manning successfully lobbied the league to let every team provide its own footballs to use on offense. Prior to that, it was always the home team that supplied the footballs, which meant that road team quarterbacks didn’t get to try the footballs out until pregame warmups.

Brady said at the time that he appreciated the opportunity to address the league’s Competition Committee and get a rule change that he felt would be advantageous to himself and other quarterbacks.

“The thing is, every quarterback likes it a little bit different,” Brady told the Sun-Sentinel at the time. “Some like them blown up a little bit more, some like them a little more thin, some like them a little more new, some like them really broken in.”

Brady’s comments come into new focus this week as the NFL investigates whether the Patriots deflated footballs in the AFC Championship Game, in violation of NFL rules. After Patriots coach Bill Belichick said today that he knows nothing about how balls are prepared prior to games, increased attention has turned to whether Brady was behind deflating the footballs.

Brady pushed for rule to let visiting team provide own footballs | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/22/brady-pushed-for-rule-to-let-visiting-team-provide-own-footballs/)

Another interesting article.
http://nypost.com/2015/01/22/aikman-on-deflategate-brady-knew-and-belichick-should-burn/

JRichm369
01-23-2015, 10:06 AM
The NFL has adopted the WWF philosophy. You will get peoples attention with a really good argument, the only bad publicity is no publicity. They now have everyone's attention all of the media is talking even the government wants to get involved, and it isn't costing anyone a dime.

CFrance
01-23-2015, 10:52 AM
For me there is nothing more fun than watching the game with others is the food and drink, yelling, screaming, and pounding on tables like chimpanezes really bring out the neanderthal in most of us.:a040:

Me too! And I don't care if they're making millions of dollars. I truly enjoy watching the sport played at its highest level of performance.

If they were only playing for money, then you wouldn't see any players suffering such evident dejection after a serious loss.

quirky3
01-23-2015, 10:54 AM
https://www.facebook.com/classicalkusc/photos/a.384466813230.166759.106866573230/10152629469018231/?type=1&theater

NotFromAroundHere
01-23-2015, 11:28 AM
A violation of the rules would occur only if someone on the the team, knowingly and deliberately deflated the balls. We don't know that that's the case.

The rule was violated regardless of anyone's intent.

Bosoxfan
01-23-2015, 12:58 PM
47203

CFrance
01-23-2015, 01:24 PM
An interesting commentary from John Madden about who would be the person who knew these balls were deflated.
John Madden: Blame Tom Brady for deflated footballs | ProFootballTalk (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/john-madden-blame-tom-brady-for-deflated-footballs/#comments)

Belichik seemed to be passing the buck subtly down to Brady yesterday. Could be...

Also, the top few comments are interesting, especially the one about the suspension of the Saints' players and coach.

DonH57
01-23-2015, 01:43 PM
47203

That sounds about right! LOL :a20:

rubicon
01-23-2015, 02:32 PM
I have said from the beginning that a quarterback knows more about the football he is throwing than anyone else . so in my mind even the slightest difference would be something a professional quarterback, even the worse of them, would readily recognize. a receiver would also recognize any variation.

Sports is such big business that every sport has now been sullied with every form of cheating envisioned. From shrinking basketball nets to steroids

The days of Bobby Jones integrity have vanished. I guess it is now the best cheaters win

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-23-2015, 02:51 PM
For me there is nothing more fun than watching the game with others is the food and drink, yelling, screaming, and pounding on tables like chimpanezes really bring out the neanderthal in most of us.:a040:

I agree 10000%. I really look forward to watching the games at Gator's Dockside every Sunday.

And why should what players make even be brought into a conversation like this. The fact is that these guys make what they do because there are very few people in the world that can what they do. They are the best of the best and they are able to entertain millions of people who enjoy watching them.

A group of them gets hired by a team that represents your home town. Why is it so wrong to want to cheer for you home town team?

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-23-2015, 02:59 PM
I have said from the beginning that a quarterback knows more about the football he is throwing than anyone else . so in my mind even the slightest difference would be something a professional quarterback, even the worse of them, would readily recognize. a receiver would also recognize any variation.

Sports is such big business that every sport has now been sullied with every form of cheating envisioned. From shrinking basketball nets to steroids

The days of Bobby Jones integrity have vanished. I guess it is now the best cheaters win

D'Qwell Jackson, who made an interception against Tom Brady in the first half said that he didn't notice that the ball was under inflated. If what you say is true, should a defensive back who handles the ball quite a bit also notice the difference.

This whole thing was a set up starting with Jim Harbaugh telling the Colts to look for under inflated balls. The only way this even came to anyone's attention was that some on the Colts bench took out a gauge and measured the ball of Jackson intercepted it. Jackson never said a word about it. He simply asked someone on the sideline to keep it as a souvenir of him intercepting Tim Brady.

Tom Brady says that the perfect ball for him is exactly 12.5 psi and asks that his footballs be at that pressure. If Andrew Luck likes his football a bit firmer or doesn't pay attention, it's probable that the Patriots balls were at exactly 12.5 and the Colts balls were at 13.5. If they both lost some pressure because of the cold. It's possible that some all of the balls lost some pressure, as many former NFL quarterbacks have stated is quite common. The Patriots balls could have lost a bit more and would have been under 12.5 immediately. Where the Colts footballs could have lost up to a pound and still be legal. We also don't know if there was a temperature difference in the rooms where the balls were tested. We also don't know if the same equipment was used to test both sets of footballs leaving open the possible that someone had a faulty gauge.

The NFL released a statement today that said that the investigation in ongoing. The balls were under inflated but they have yet to determine how they got that way. They have also hired a lawyer and an investigator who has, so far, conducted over 40 interviews and will be conducting many more over the next few weeks. In order for them to discipline the Patriots in any way, they will have to have absolute proof that someone on the team deflated the balls deliberately. They also said that The Patriots have been cooperating fully in the investigation.

Bottom line is that there are a lot of questions still to be answered so all of this, talk of cheating should stop until all of the facts are known.

Polar Bear
01-23-2015, 03:00 PM
The NFL has adopted the WWF philosophy. You will get peoples attention with a really good argument, the only bad publicity is no publicity. They now have everyone's attention all of the media is talking even the government wants to get involved, and it isn't costing anyone a dime.


Yeah...and we all know nobody would be watching the Super Bowl if it wasn't for deflategate.

redwitch
01-23-2015, 03:56 PM
Yeah...and we all know nobody would be watching the Super Bowl if it wasn't for deflategate.

Sure we would -- can't miss those commercials!

DonH57
01-23-2015, 03:59 PM
Unfortunately I think the commercials have gotten worse these past 2 years. I'm hoping they are better this year.

Paul & Elaine
01-23-2015, 04:05 PM
Maybe it wasn't a close game but the momentum of the game has a lot to do with how it is played. Who's to say if the balls were not Deflated that the Pats would have played any better than the Colts.

The balls were all inflated at half and the Pats scored 28 points in the second half. So the weight of the balls did not make any difference in the outcome of this game.

Bosoxfan
01-23-2015, 04:22 PM
47207

DonH57
01-23-2015, 04:26 PM
I agree 10000%. I really look forward to watching the games at Gator's Dockside every Sunday.

And why should what players make even be brought into a conversation like this. The fact is that these guys make what they do because there are very few people in the world that can what they do. They are the best of the best and they are able to entertain millions of people who enjoy watching them.

A group of them gets hired by a team that represents your home town. Why is it so wrong to want to cheer for you home town team?

Football is a collision sport and these players can only play for so long. it's their chosen profession they desire to play.

justjim
01-23-2015, 04:55 PM
I just heard a report on ESPN2 at halftime of the Wake Forest/North Carolina game that said that the refs noted the inflation problem at half time and had the Patriots supply 12 backup balls that apparently were properly inflated. I believe the Patriots did most of the damage in the second half. So maybe not as bad as it appears. :shrug:

You are exactly right. The Patriots did much better the second half---this is all about nothing IMHO. Some receivers and some Quarterbacks actually want more air in the football rather than less. It's obvious that some don't like New England and that is your right but to call them "liars and cheaters" is over the top and smells of jealousy .

Shimpy
01-23-2015, 04:57 PM
The balls were all inflated at half and the Pats scored 28 points in the second half. So the weight of the balls did not make any difference in the outcome of this game.

Tom wasn't talking about weight of the balls, but pressure which he said he preferred 12.5 because it gave him a better grip on the ball. A ball too hard would be hard to grasp with smaller hands.

Bosoxfan
01-23-2015, 05:02 PM
47209

mtdjed
01-23-2015, 05:14 PM
Do you think the CHEATERS should get bounced out of the super bowl?

Then there are no teams eligible to play. All teams cheat, whether it is holding, stealing signals etc. This is not church where everybody does everything right. Well, maybe that is not a good example. Perhaps politics, well again not a good example.

In answer to your question, yes they should be booted out of the Superbowl, right after all the other cheaters are booted out of their spots.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-23-2015, 06:51 PM
You are exactly right. The Patriots did much better the second half---this is all about nothing IMHO. Some receivers and some Quarterbacks actually want more air in the football rather than less. It's obvious that some don't like New England and that is your right but to call them "liars and cheaters" is over the top and smells of jealousy .

1000% correct. This has gone way over the top. A big part of it is jealousy. People love to hate winners and the patriots have won more games, by a wide margin, in the past 14 years than any other team.

It's also true that if they were to take away all of the points that the Patriots scored with the illegal balls, they would have won the game by 21 points and beat the spread by 15.5 points.

I just saw a report, by the way, that said that the NFL is going to report that although the balls were under inflated, they could not find the cause of the under inflation and no punishment was going to be handed out. They may be covering up the fact that a faulty gauge was used or the referee didn't do his job.

I have heard no details about what the ref did when he checked the balls 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game. Did he check all of the balls? Did he use a proper gauge? Or did he maybe pick up a few, squeeze them and say, "Yeah, these seem OK"? If that were the case, the NFL would have to come out and try to cover it up.

Mikeod
01-23-2015, 07:05 PM
I have heard no details about what the ref did when he checked the balls 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game. Did he check all of the balls? Did he use a proper gauge? Or did he maybe pick up a few, squeeze them and say, "Yeah, these seem OK"? If that were the case, the NFL would have to come out and try to cover it up.
Or worse, they could say the investigation failed to determine why the balls were underinflated. That would just continue the litany of speculation without facts.

Polar Bear
01-23-2015, 07:17 PM
The fuss-to-worth ratio (that's F/W...a very complex ratio arrive at through exhaustive, detailed calculations [emoji483][emoji483][emoji483]) is higher for this investigation than for any sports-related investigation ever previously recorded.

CFrance
01-23-2015, 07:49 PM
The balls were all inflated at half and the Pats scored 28 points in the second half. So the weight of the balls did not make any difference in the outcome of this game.
I don't get this argument. It's the integrity of the game that is at issue. I also don't get the "everybody does it" argument. If it's illegal, than "everybody" should be disciplined.

I want to watch good football, and I expect it to be played on a level playing field. And I expect the NFL to insure that that happens. With all the $ they make, it's not an unrealistic expectation to hold them to.

Rags123
01-23-2015, 07:53 PM
I don't get this argument. It's the integrity of the game that is at issue. I also don't get the "everybody does it" argument. If it's illegal, than "everybody" should be disciplined.

I want to watch good football, and I expect it to be played on a level playing field. And I expect the NFL to insure that that happens. With all the $ they make, it's not an unrealistic expectation to hold them to.

AMEN. Same with anything in life......because others did it or do it is NO excuse for you doing it !!!

How many times did you hear that as a kid !!!

A cheat is a cheat is a cheat...a liar is a liar is a liar

BUT they are not even claiming that everyone does it...they are just lying.

Remind anyone of Richard Nixon.....the cover up is what gets you !

CFrance
01-23-2015, 07:54 PM
1000% correct. This has gone way over the top. A big part of it is jealousy. People love to hate winners and the patriots have won more games, by a wide margin, in the past 14 years than any other team.

It's also true that if they were to take away all of the points that the Patriots scored with the illegal balls, they would have won the game by 21 points and beat the spread by 15.5 points.

I just saw a report, by the way, that said that the NFL is going to report that although the balls were under inflated, they could not find the cause of the under inflation and no punishment was going to be handed out. They may be covering up the fact that a faulty gauge was used or the referee didn't do his job.

I have heard no details about what the ref did when he checked the balls 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game. Did he check all of the balls? Did he use a proper gauge? Or did he maybe pick up a few, squeeze them and say, "Yeah, these seem OK"? If that were the case, the NFL would have to come out and try to cover it up.
Funny that the gauge was faulty for the Patriots' balls but not the Colts' balls.

All the Patriots fans will go out of their way to defend their team and cast doubts upon the allegations. That's understandable, but considering the team's history in this area, it's also understandable that non Patriots fans might view their arguments with a bit of skepticism.

KeepingItReal
01-23-2015, 08:00 PM
I also don't get the "everybody does it" argument. If it's illegal, than "everybody" should be disciplined.



It's kinda like the same as a lot of stuff in the villages. It's not gonna change.... :MOJE_whot:

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-23-2015, 09:04 PM
I don't get this argument. It's the integrity of the game that is at issue. I also don't get the "everybody does it" argument. If it's illegal, than "everybody" should be disciplined.

I want to watch good football, and I expect it to be played on a level playing field. And I expect the NFL to insure that that happens. With all the $ they make, it's not an unrealistic expectation to hold them to.

I almost all sports players are allowed to bend certain rules and the league looks the other way. It's sort of like an unwritten rule. You can argue whether this is right or wrong, but I don't think that anyone would argue that it's a good thing for a league to begin selectively enforcing a rule that has been let go for decades.

If they want to start enforcing it, then notice should be given to all the teams that they've been letting them get by with this, but as of a specified date they will no longer tolerate it.

That would be a reasonable approach. You don't allow one coach who knows and understands that this has been common practice to suddenly call another coach out on it.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-23-2015, 09:09 PM
Funny that the gauge was faulty for the Patriots' balls but not the Colts' balls.

All the Patriots fans will go out of their way to defend their team and cast doubts upon the allegations. That's understandable, but considering the team's history in this area, it's also understandable that non Patriots fans might view their arguments with a bit of skepticism.

I didn't say that the gauge was faulty. I said that it might have been. Do the referees use their own gauges or the teams gauge? Do they use the same gauge for both teams? Do they use a gauge at all?

These are questions that I have not heard addressed. Until all of these kind of questions are answered we have to assume that this was simply some kind of error.

It's only the jealous fans of other teams that are making a big deal of this. People love to hate winners. It goes with the territory. And the Patriots have won more games, by a huge margin, since 2000 than any other team in the NFL. All of the other teams fans hate that fact. They are jealous of The Patriots and their fans. They are looking for some excuse as to why their team hasn't done this.

And as far as considering the teams history, what happened was that ten years ago, a low level employee videoed an opponents from an area where videoing was not allowed. Had the kid been thirty yards from where he was it would have been perfectly legal. The league decided to make an example of the team. The media made a big deal out of it just like they're making a big deal out of this. Is that this criminal history your talking about?

The media doesn't like Bill Belichick because he doesn't give them any stories. He doesn't tolerate their crap and they don't like that. So anytime they can make a push to get him in trouble they will.

Like I said, fans of other teams hate them because they are jealous of their winning record and the media hates them because they don't cooperate with them. Those two things combine to create issues like this.

CFrance
01-23-2015, 09:13 PM
I didn't say that the gauge was faulty. I said that it might have been. Do the referees use their own gauges or the teams gauge? Do they use the same gauge for both teams? Do they use a gauge at all?

These are questions that I have not heard addressed. Until all of these kind of questions are answered we have to assume that this was simply some kind of error.

It's only the jealous fans of other teams that are making a big deal of this. People love to hate winners. It goes with the territory. And the Patriots have won more games, by a huge margin, since 2000 than any other team in the NFL. All of the other teams fans hate that fact. They are jealous of The Patriots and their fans. They are looking for some excuse as to why their team hasn't done this.
Really have to disagree with this. And as to the Patriots winning games, take a look at this study. Sharp Football Analysis (http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dfRgA?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=nfl)

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-23-2015, 09:34 PM
Really have to disagree with this. And as to the Patriots winning games, take a look at this study. Sharp Football Analysis (http://bleacherreport.com/tb/dfRgA?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=nfl)

Your little fumble study doesn't take into consideration that Belichick makes The Patriots work hard on holding onto the ball. And when they do have some that fumbles, they bench him. A perfect example was their star running bacl Stephen Ridley who had fumble problems. He was benched, brought back after he had worked on holding onto the ball and now I don't even think he's with the team anymore. They don't let players who fumble play. If they don't improve quickly, they get rid of them. Just another example of the genius of Bill Belichick.

Your study also talks about how they never fumble at home and then mentions that visiting teams bring their own balls when on the road. So what does home and away have to do with it?

They didn't win 174 games in the past 14 years because the ball was a little under inflated. Joe Theisman said that he never thought about ball inflation until this controversy came about. So, he went out and threw some balls that were correctly inflated and under inflated. He said that to him the harder ball is easier to handle.

This whole thing is going to turn out to be nothing. People have so much hate in them for winners that they are calling for the Patriots to be banned from the Super Bowl based on an allegation. There is still not one scintilla of evidence that these balls were under inflated deliberately and intentionally. Barring such evidence the league has to conclude that there was some kind of innocent error, the referees did not do their job, or the weather caused the balls to deflate.

CFrance
01-23-2015, 11:59 PM
Your little fumble study doesn't take into consideration that Belichick makes The Patriots work hard on holding onto the ball. And when they do have some that fumbles, they bench him. A perfect example was their star running bacl Stephen Ridley who had fumble problems. He was benched, brought back after he had worked on holding onto the ball and now I don't even think he's with the team anymore. They don't let players who fumble play. If they don't improve quickly, they get rid of them. Just another example of the genius of Bill Belichick.

Your study also talks about how they never fumble at home and then mentions that visiting teams bring their own balls when on the road. So what does home and away have to do with it?

They didn't win 174 games in the past 14 years because the ball was a little under inflated. Joe Theisman said that he never thought about ball inflation until this controversy came about. So, he went out and threw some balls that were correctly inflated and under inflated. He said that to him the harder ball is easier to handle.

This whole thing is going to turn out to be nothing. People have so much hate in them for winners that they are calling for the Patriots to be banned from the Super Bowl based on an allegation. There is still not one scintilla of evidence that these balls were under inflated deliberately and intentionally. Barring such evidence the league has to conclude that there was some kind of innocent error, the referees did not do their job, or the weather caused the balls to deflate.
Uh, it wasn't "my little fumble study." I understand how you will stick up to your team to the end. It makes for a good fan. But you do have to wonder why there aren't very many other teams in the limelight for this kind of thing. The Saints and...

DonH57
01-24-2015, 09:57 AM
If you watch any football game on any given day and pay attention to all the replays on all the games you can see so much cheating that the officials didn't catch or had absolutely nothing to do with the outcome of the game. Tom Brady got kicked in the helmet by a Raven's defender after he had went down and it wasn't an accident. The Patriots are hated for the reason's listed earlier. Bill Parcells was another coach hated by the media because he did the same thing only sometimes being nasty toward them. Quite frankly all this deflate gate talk is only helping the Patriots prep for the bowl. Whether you hate their guts or not they are one team you don't want to pi** before a game.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-24-2015, 10:00 AM
Uh, it wasn't "my little fumble study." I understand how you will stick up to your team to the end. It makes for a good fan. But you do have to wonder why there aren't very many other teams in the limelight for this kind of thing. The Saints and...

OK, to be more accurate, "the little fumble study that you posted."

Other teams haven't been in the limelight for it because they don't win as much as The Patriots. It has never been brought up by an opposing coach before because they all know that it's common practice and their teams could be penalized as well if a real investigation was done.

Don't you find it a bit odd that Jim Harbaugh found balls to be soft in the Ravens game against The Patriots and instead of filing an official complaint with the league, he goes and tell Pagano to look out for it? If I were a coach and found a problem I would call it to the referee's attention right then and there. The ref could then check the balls at halftime just like they did in The Colts games. Instead, he goes to the coach of the team that they're about to play and "warns" him to look for it.

So far what we know is that 11 of 12 balls were under inflated, some up to 2 PSI.

We have no idea how they got that way. We don't know if they were under inflated when the ref checked them before the game. We don't know what procedure the ref used to check them. Did he use a gauge or did he just squeeze them and say they felt OK? if a gauge was used, could it have been a faulty gauge? Was the same method and/or gauge used on The Colts balls? Is it possible that the temperature change led to a loss of pressure? Remember, Tom Brady asks for his footballs to be at "exactly" 12.5 PSI. If they were at that pressure and the cold made them lose any pressure at all, they would have been illegal. What was the exact pressure of all of The Colts 12 footballs? Were the tested in the same room or different rooms? Were the temperatures of the two rooms the same?

All I'm saying is that there is a lot of information that we don't have and people are screaming to suspend Belichick, ban The Patriots from the Super Bowl or bench Brady for the Super Bowl. What I'm saying is like in any other case we should wait until all of the evidence is in before making any judgement. It sounds like that's exactly what the NFL is doing.

Until then we should just enjoy two great football teams going at each other in the greatest game of the season.

Happydaz
01-24-2015, 10:09 AM
This is the United States of America Where a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. The title of this thread is indicative of a judgement. The media loves stories like this and they get everyone all excited and emotional, but there has been no results yet from the NFL investigation. Let's wait for that instead of slandering the reputations of Tom Brady and Bill Belichick.

DonH57
01-24-2015, 10:22 AM
I would say the reason any balls were deflated was because Gronk spiked them but he gets to keep all those afterward. Seriously the NFL needs to pick a system of enforcement and stick with it across the board. I for one do find it odd if even a coach chooses not to inform officials but sidelines it he is part of the problem. At best all allegations.

l2ridehd
01-24-2015, 02:35 PM
They are nothing but allegations by a team who lost and was looking for excuses. The Ravens and Indianapolis were beaten by a better football team. Every quarterback, every pitcher, every basketball player every golfer who has ever played the game has something he seems to think makes his game just a bit better. Pitchers like to rough up the ball before every pitch, golfers will only play with ball XXX, it's been around since the lions and Christians were in the arena. And it will be around for as long as there are pro sports.

I hope all this media hype only propels them to win the Super Bowl. There are a lot more important things to worry about in this world than a pound of hot air.

CFrance
01-24-2015, 02:40 PM
The people behind us in line at Sam's Club today were trying to figure out how to get a guest pass for a person who lives in Marion County. They got on the phone with someone who apparently know the rules, and the wife related to her husband that they can't get a pass because the person lives within a 30-mile radius (or whatever the rule is). Her husband's response was "Well, then just make up an address for her that's in another state."

Seems like nobody wants to play by the rules, from pro sports on down.

coconutmama
01-24-2015, 04:29 PM
No one has mentioned the referees who place the ball back on the field after every play. Why didn't one of them notice the under-inflated condition.

Go Pats

Many good posts here, and some a little too emotional. I'm looking forward to watching the game and hope for a big win by the Patriots. But either way, I'll enjoy the commercials. Hope the Budweiser Clydesdales are featured in at least one. Go Pats!

SoccerCoach
01-24-2015, 05:19 PM
OK, an under inflated ball affects passing and recieving to some degree. Does it also make it more difficult to tackle a ball carrier? Rushing yardage told us another story.

MarkinMd
01-24-2015, 05:24 PM
Baltimore Ravens here. As much as I wanted the Ravens to win the game against the Patriots they didn't. I believe the Ravens lost because our pass defense let us down as they did quite a few times in the regular,season. Unless I see proof beyond a doubt or at least a preponderance of evidence Ill assume you are not guilty.

dbussone
01-24-2015, 05:25 PM
Many good posts here, and some a little too emotional. I'm looking forward to watching the game and hope for a big win by the Patriots. But either way, I'll enjoy the commercials. Hope the Budweiser Clydesdales are featured in at least one. Go Pats!


I was sad to hear recently that the Clydesdales are being retired.
Go Pats.

dbussone
01-24-2015, 05:27 PM
Baltimore Ravens here. As much as I wanted the Ravens to win the game against the Patriots they didn't. I believe the Ravens lost because our pass defense let us down as they did quite a few times in the regular,season. Unless I see proof beyond a doubt or at least a preponderance of evidence Ill assume you are not guilty.


A reasonable approach. Thanks for being rational about this.

dbussone
01-24-2015, 05:30 PM
The people behind us in line at Sam's Club today were trying to figure out how to get a guest pass for a person who lives in Marion County. They got on the phone with someone who apparently know the rules, and the wife related to her husband that they can't get a pass because the person lives within a 30-mile radius (or whatever the rule is). Her husband's response was "Well, then just make up an address for her that's in another state."

Seems like nobody wants to play by the rules, from pro sports on down.


C - I don't want to offend you, but the football situation has not come to any resolution yet. On the other hand, the people behind you at Sam's should be drawn and quartered.

MarkinMd
01-24-2015, 05:34 PM
As my favorite Sgt. always said (Joe Friday) badge #714-" Just the facts maam".

coconutmama
01-24-2015, 05:44 PM
I thought I heard the folks behind the Clydesdales ads have reconsidered. Hope so!

dbussone
01-24-2015, 05:47 PM
I thought I heard the folks behind the Clydesdales ads have reconsidered. Hope so!


Hadn't heard that, but hope it's true. Ever since Bud was sold to a European company I've been concerned.

janmcn
01-24-2015, 06:03 PM
Baltimore Ravens here. As much as I wanted the Ravens to win the game against the Patriots they didn't. I believe the Ravens lost because our pass defense let us down as they did quite a few times in the regular,season. Unless I see proof beyond a doubt or at least a preponderance of evidence Ill assume you are not guilty.


Bill Belichick gave a viable explanation today at a news conference of what may have happened to the footballs to cause the deflation. The Pats have done their own testing, duplicating the exact conditions of game day.

After the NFL completes their investigation, they should establish a policy that states if any team has any questions or concerns about equipment, it must be addressed on game day, not the next day or a week later or a month later: ie speak now or forever hold your piece. This will give the accused team the opportunity to answer the allegations.

The haters should just vote with their remote and refuse to watch the game. If millions don't tune in to watch, that will get the NFL's attention.

justjim
01-24-2015, 06:47 PM
This is the United States of America Where a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. The title of this thread is indicative of a judgement. The media loves stories like this and they get everyone all excited and emotional, but there has been no results yet from the NFL investigation. Let's wait for that instead of slandering the reputations of Tom Brady and Bill Belichick.

:agree: I couldn't agree more. The media really Likes to throw gasoline on this controversy. Remember "Ferguson" and how the Police Officer was treated by the media? When all the facts finally came out, you didn't hear any apologies from any of the media for their false judgements did you?

Let's wait until the investigation is completed before calling Brady and Belichick and the New England team "cheaters".

Bosoxfan
01-24-2015, 08:29 PM
Bill Belichick brilliantly schools NFL, league has no answer

by: Mike Petraglia on Sat, 01/24/2015 - 5:54pmShame on the NFL, again.In the year of*Ray Rice,*Adrian Peterson*and Greg Hardy, they've somehow managed to trump serious cases of domestic abuse by blowing a silly, inane, moronic controversy over the inflation of game balls into a national story that gets more sublime and ridiculous by the day.The league didn't take their time and do due diligence on what really mattered in the*Ray Rice*case, and delivered a hasty judgment that Commissioner Roger Goodell admitted was ill-conceived.Now, they're taking their sweet time to decide who may have taken too much air out of the balls, a violation that is punishable by a minimum $25,000 fine. This is no more serious than hockey players playing with an illegal stick or, as we saw in 1983 with George Brett, hitting with a doctored, pine-tarred bat.Talk about having your priorities all screwed up.In an impromptu Belichick press conference Saturday afternoon that was equal parts Joe Pesci and Albert Einstein, the Patriots coach spelled out his outright disgust in being forced to deal with a controversy that clearly should have been resolved within 48 hours."I'm embarrassed to talk about the amount of time that I've put into this, relative to the other important challenge in front of us," Belichick said. "I'm not a scientist. I'm not an expert in footballs. I'm not an expert in football measurements. I'm just telling you what I know. I would not say I'm Mona Lisa Vito of the football world, as she was in the car expertise area. I'm not a scientist, and I'm not a league official."Boom. Another brilliant Belichick salvo fired toward the league. Not only did Belichick spell out the science of deflation, he said the Patriots conducted their own investigation (whether you want to believe it or not) based on recreating game protocols. The Patriots came up with more facts in 30 minutes than the league has in six days.If the league had suspicions the Patriots did something untoward, and they certainly did three hours after Sunday night's game, then act quickly. Don't let it drag, not on the brink of one of the most anticipated Super Bowls in recent memory. If you couldn't find the goods on the Patriots, then admit it and move on.Heck, if the league announced last Tuesday or Wednesday they had probable cause to determine something was done to the footballs, and penalized the team because, ultimately, they're responsible, Belichick and Robert Kraft might not have liked it but they certainly would've accepted it. Belichick and his team then would be free to shift into Beastmode for the*Super Bowl*preparations. That would certainly beat the muck they're being dragged through now.Which brings us to the crux of the matter. Why, six days after the fact, is the NFL so obsessed over this?I get it. Someone in the NFL office is fuming and embarrassed. They think they have something on big bad*Bill Belichick*and choir boy*Tom Brady. They feel they absolutely know it. And they're apparently being stonewalled or stalled. But this is where Kraft's buddy Roger Goodell should've stepped in as a strong leader and taken quick action.If you want transparency, then the league conducts interviews in the first 48 hours, announces findings and appropriate discipline.If the Patriots want to appeal it, fine. They can do so after the*Super Bowl. But the Patriots and Belichick would've likely accepted practically anything as punishment. Want proof?When asked Saturday if this is another case of the team pushing the envelope like Spygate, Belichick, for the first time, actually acknowledged what happened in the season opener of 2007 against the Jets. His answer tells you everything you need to know about accepting responsibility and moving on."The guy is giving signals out in front of 80,000 people," Belichick said. "OK? We filmed him taking signals out in front of 80,000 people like there were a lot of other teams doing at that time too, OK? Forget about that. If we were wrong, then we've been disciplined for that."Guy's in front of 80,000 people. Eighty-thousand people saw it, everybody's sideline saw it, everybody sees our guy in front of 80,000 people. There he is. It was wrong, we were disciplined for it. That's it. We never did it again. We're never gonna do it again. Anything else that's close we're not gonna do, either."If you're going to argue that the*Ray Rice*case taught the NFL not to rush to judgment, please. We're talking about PSIs not CSI. This is a trivial pursuit of game equipment violations, not videotape of a woman being punched inside an elevator.In the best interest of the league and NFL fans everywhere, Goodell could've and should've stepped in and made a finding soon. This would've shown everyone that he is a decisive leader who wants everyone talking about the game's biggest event, not air in a football.Read into it what you will but for Belichick to speak Saturday, publicly and for the organization, in the midst of a league investigation tells you all you need to know about how those inside*Gillette Stadium*feel the team is being treated.Belichick announcing they conducted their own investigation this week, taking up serious time commitment and resources leading up the*Super Bowl, is a not-so-thinly veiled message to the league: We're being transparent. How about you?If you wanted to re-open the case after the*Super Bowl, fine. Do that. But to announce Friday that you're talking to 40 people over inflated balls during the AFC championship that had nothing to do with the outcome of the previous game is a waste of time and resources.But apparently, that's what the league wants. They want*Bill Belichick*quoting "My Cousin Vinny" and talking about animal skin and sending people to the moon and showing anger because, hey, what else would the Patriots coach rather be doing eight days before a Super Bowl?

Bosoxfan
01-24-2015, 10:22 PM
47231

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-24-2015, 10:41 PM
Interesting article in USA Today of all places interviewing physicists who say that a change in temperature would definitely change the pressure inside the balls.

birdawg
01-25-2015, 09:06 AM
Interesting article in USA Today of all places interviewing physicists who say that a change in temperature would definitely change the pressure inside the balls.

Hey Doc ya think it would have affected the Colt's balls also.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-25-2015, 09:39 AM
Hey Doc ya think it would have affected the Colt's balls also.

Possibly, but we now that Tom Brady asks for his balls to be at exactly 12.5 PSI, the minimum pressure. What we don't know is, if the Colts balls were inflated at 13.5 or if they were inflated in the same room. If they were inflated or stored in different rooms, the air inside the balls could have been different at different temperatures and subject to different rates of decrease in pressure.

Teams have heaters near the benches. A few years back some teams were found to be warming their kicking footballs in front of one of these heaters because they had lost pressure. Do we know if the Colts balls were near a heat source? If they were, they may not have deflated as much as The Patriots balls.

My point is that there is a lot of information we don't have and a lot of questions still to be answered. This is not a simple as many of the haters would like it to be.

I guess you can keep playing gotcha if that's what floats your boat, but the NFL is going to take their time and do a thorough investigation to see if they can determine how the balls got deflated. But it seems that a lot of people already know how they got inflated. Maybe all of these people that hate The Patriots should just go tell the NFL investigators that they are wasting their time and should just interview them and they'll tell them that The Patriots inflated the balls.

Indy-Guy
01-25-2015, 03:25 PM
Saturday Night Live skit on Deflate gate link below.

SNL pumps up audience with DeflateGate skit - 13 WTHR Indianapolis (http://www.wthr.com/story/27934018/snl-pumps-up-audience-with-deflategate-skit)

Shimpy
01-25-2015, 05:47 PM
Let the NFL supply the balls and then there is no problem.

mtdjed
01-25-2015, 06:33 PM
The Patriots sent in Stealth Drones (SDs) covered with a secret stealth material Noseum and they deflated the balls. They are working on updating this for the Seahawks. The SDs will pick up Brady's passes and deliver them unseen to Patriot receivers.

Polar Bear
01-25-2015, 06:53 PM
The Patriots sent in Stealth Drones (SDs) covered with a secret stealth material Noseum and they deflated the balls. They are working on updating this for the Seahawks. The SDs will pick up Brady's passes and deliver them unseen to Patriot receivers.


I've suspected this all along!! [emoji89]

dbussone
01-25-2015, 07:00 PM
The Patriots sent in Stealth Drones (SDs) covered with a secret stealth material Noseum and they deflated the balls. They are working on updating this for the Seahawks. The SDs will pick up Brady's passes and deliver them unseen to Patriot receivers.


Now if we can only get the stealth drones to block all Seattle punts we should have a real route.

DonH57
01-25-2015, 08:09 PM
Now if we can only get the stealth drones to block all Seattle punts we should have a real route.

Even causing the point after or field goal kicks to hook or slice would be good as well.:laugh:

Bosoxfan
01-26-2015, 05:43 PM
The NFL has tarnished its own shield by painting a Super Bowl participant as a cheater without clear evidence of cheating. As noted on Friday, some believe that former Commissioners (such as Paul Tagliabue) would have addressed complaints coming from teams like the Colts regarding under inflated footballs not by trying to lay a trap for the Patriots, but by letting the Patriots know that the league office is paying attention to the situation, and that if there’s any funny business happening it needs to stop, now. Instead, the league office opted to try to catch the Patriots red handed.

dbussone
01-26-2015, 06:56 PM
///

dbussone
01-26-2015, 06:58 PM
Even causing the point after or field goal kicks to hook or slice would be good as well.:laugh:

Way to go Don. I'll be sure to pass that suggestion along. 👍

janmcn
01-26-2015, 08:31 PM
Patriots locker room attendant a 'person of interest' in Deflate-Gate saga - Newsday (http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/super-bowl/patriots-locker-room-attendant-a-person-of-interest-in-deflate-gate-saga-1.9848610)


A person of interest is being questioned in the NFL's investigation into what caused the deflated footballs.

Mikeod
01-26-2015, 09:10 PM
Sure wish the NFL would just conduct their investigation without these leaks which just encourage wild speculation among media types and fans.

Frankly, if they did not question the attendant that carried the balls to the field during the beginning of this, they are more incompetent than I would like to believe. Of course he would be a "person of interest" as would anyone who had even temporary possession of the balls. Jeez.

PennBF
01-27-2015, 09:17 AM
The answer is simple and does not require a "mensa" meeting. "Just follow the money". You have multi millionares who rely on the outcome of a game to make or loose money. To believe they would not cheat for more money is pretty naive.
It is not a case as to whether someone cheated, it is who and how. Look back on New England cheating by "stealing" the other teams signals. This sets the standards they are willing to follow. Of course they cheated. And of course they should have very stiff consequences. They should not be able to play in the Superbowl. Letting them play is rewarding cheating. Enough said. barf

dbussone
01-27-2015, 09:42 AM
What a thread. I'm the 150th poster on a thread about air in a football.
Folks, get a grip. Then get a life.

CFrance
01-27-2015, 09:58 AM
What a thread. I'm the 150th poster on a thread about air in a football.
Folks, get a grip. Then get a life.
I'll agree with you up to a point, dbussone. But people the world over take their sports very seriously. Look at the riots caused by soccer matches. Look at the college riots after particular games/tournaments.

I think 150 posts is a drop in the bucket compared to that.

I think I do have a life.:pepper2: Part of that life is a serious love of a few sports--football, baseball, tennis. I get very upset when a sport I love is not played on a level playing field, for whatever reason.

Bosoxfan
01-27-2015, 11:05 AM
What a thread. I'm the 150th poster on a thread about air in a football.
Folks, get a grip. Then get a life.

21 out of the 150 replies are from you!!!

PennBF
01-27-2015, 12:02 PM
It is not about "air in football". It is about millions of fans signing in to watch a game they felt was "honest and fair". It is about millions of people being mis led about the fairness of the competition. In some cases it is about thousands or even millions of people believing the wagers they placed on a particular team was in fact predicated on fairness. It is the failure of major examples to the youth to believe their hero's are honest only to find out they are as crooked as any ganster. It is the potential destruction of the moral fiber of major sports in the USA. It is about multi millionares making "suckers" of fans in order to make a few more dollars. Finally it is a shame that some players/teams have such little regards for their reputation or standards that they would trade them for money. I believe they are called "bottom feeders". barf

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-27-2015, 12:15 PM
It is not about "air in football". It is about millions of fans signing in to watch a game they felt was "honest and fair". It is about millions of people being mis led about the fairness of the competition. In some cases it is about thousands or even millions of people believing the wagers they placed on a particular team was in fact predicated on fairness. It is the failure of major examples to the youth to believe their hero's are honest only to find out they are as crooked as any ganster. It is the potential destruction of the moral fiber of major sports in the USA. It is about multi millionares making "suckers" of fans in order to make a few more dollars. Finally it is a shame that some players/teams have such little regards for their reputation or standards that they would trade them for money. I believe they are called "bottom feeders". barf

All that and nothing has been proven. I believe that is it call rabble rousing and rumor mongering.

By the way, bets placed on the game were not affected by the balls that were used.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-27-2015, 12:26 PM
The answer is simple and does not require a "mensa" meeting. "Just follow the money". You have multi millionares who rely on the outcome of a game to make or loose money. To believe they would not cheat for more money is pretty naive.
It is not a case as to whether someone cheated, it is who and how. Look back on New England cheating by "stealing" the other teams signals. This sets the standards they are willing to follow. Of course they cheated. And of course they should have very stiff consequences. They should not be able to play in the Superbowl. Letting them play is rewarding cheating. Enough said. barf

It is a question of whether someone cheated or not. there have been several reasons put forth by several different sources on how the balls might have come to lose air. the NFL is still in the midst of an investigation to determine if anything intentional was done that would constitute cheating and deserve any kind of punishment.

Even if they find that something was done deliberately, the RULES, which you are so concerned over, call for the team to be fined $25,000. There is nothing int he RULES that require or even suggest that a team be banned from playing in a game.

As far as the video incident that occurred seven years ago, they were not found guilty of stealing the other teams signals. All teams video their opponents practices. The league has rules regarding the locations from which this videoing can be done. In the Patriots case, they had a guy about 25 yards outside of the area where he was supposed to be to be legal. They were found guilty of having a low level employee legally videoing the opponent practice from an illegal spot.

The bottom line is that people love to hate winners so those haters will continue to bring up incidents like that and try to convince people that this is why the Patriots have won as much as they did.

The press also hates The Patriots because Belichick doesn't make their job easy for them. But then again, why should he? He has his job to do and they have theirs. If a player, coach or team representative doesn't give them a nice juicy story or quote, they will make up their own. They'll continue to hammer this forever, the same as the haters will continue to hammer a low level employee doing a perfectly legal video in a barely illegal area.

In neither case was the an advantage gained by the Patriots and neither incident contributed to them winning the games that they have won.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-27-2015, 12:35 PM
Patriots locker room attendant a 'person of interest' in Deflate-Gate saga - Newsday (http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/super-bowl/patriots-locker-room-attendant-a-person-of-interest-in-deflate-gate-saga-1.9848610)


A person of interest is being questioned in the NFL's investigation into what caused the deflated footballs.

Like Mikeod said, how could the person that handled the balls not be a person of interest.

What this story says, by the way, is that they have video of this equipment manager leaving the referee's locker room with the balls and going to another room before bringing them to the field. As far as I can tell, they do not have video of him in the second room.

This is exactly how the press tries to keep a story like this going. Big headline; "The Ballboy That Last Handled the Balls is a PERSON OF INTEREST!"

Kind of makes those who don't think believe that the ball boy is guilty of something.

redwitch
01-27-2015, 12:43 PM
Whether it contributed to the Pats winning is absolutely irrelevant. If Brady was aware that the ball was too soft, he had a moral obligation to get the balls properly inflated and it is hard to imagine that he couldn't feel this difference. If the under inflation was deliberate, it was cheating, pure and simple.

I sincerely doubt we will ever know if the act was deliberate, a force of nature or human error. Whatever the case, it happened. Like the illegal video taping, it will stand as another black mark against the Pats, Brady and Belichick. Glad I'm not a fan of theirs.

dbussone
01-27-2015, 12:45 PM
21 out of the 150 replies are from you!!!


You must really like my posts if you took the time to count them. Like I said.

Go Patriots

CFrance
01-27-2015, 12:56 PM
21 out of the 150 replies are from you!!!

You must really like my posts if you took the time to count them. Like I said.

Go Patriots
You're both funny!:clap2::clap2:

PennBF
01-27-2015, 01:11 PM
They cheated. All the rationale in the world cannot excuse them either by denying an infraction, being no absolute proof, and all the other attempts to say they are just an innocent team that had been caught before but are now just honest people who would not do such a thing. Hello, they already have. It is interesting how many want them to be innocent and will dig up any and all possible excuses to say they are. The facts are: there were 24 balls 12 from Colts and 12 from NE. The 11 of the 12 from NE were in violation, 4 well known and past Superbowl QB have said that they must have known of the violations, each said they would have known when handling the ball(s). They have a history of "cheating". Let's really get real and recognize what they are and not what we would want them to be. Finally is the statement that so what if the ball was 2 PSI below the "rules". That is the ultimate of saying so what if they cheated you have to prove it impacted the game. NO. Just that they cheated.barf

birdawg
01-27-2015, 01:54 PM
Just heard on ESPN that all 24 balls will be coated with BALLAGRA hoping they will stay hard for 4 hours.

TNLAKEPANDA
01-27-2015, 01:56 PM
Some of the comments on here are unbelievable to say the least.

DonH57
01-27-2015, 04:00 PM
I'm amazed at those who believe the Patriots are the only NFL franchise who cheats or does things to gain an advantage over their opponents an others are above this. But back to the colts/pats game if the pats scored twice as many points after the alleged balls were corrected than before who really had the advantage? Sounds to me like sour grapes.I watched the game. You can't play the way the colts did and expect to win.

janmcn
01-27-2015, 05:22 PM
I'm amazed at those who believe the Patriots are the only NFL franchise who cheats or does things to gain an advantage over their opponents an others are above this. But back to the colts/pats game if the pats scored twice as many points after the alleged balls were corrected than before who really had the advantage? Sounds to me like sour grapes.I watched the game. You can't play the way the colts did and expect to win.

Amen. Game over. The team with the most points wins. The top two teams play on Sunday, and the team with the most points wins the championship.

Allowing this team, that got their butts handed to them in a 45-7 loss, to make these allegations sets a bad precedent.

All the haters can probably find some other thing to do Sunday night at 7:00pm, while the fans will be watching the best game of the year. And the good news is Tom Brady is planning on playing another ten years, according to the NYTimes Sunday magazine article. Hurrah!!!!

DonH57
01-27-2015, 05:46 PM
Besides allegations by others the NFL have failed to handle this incident like they have everything else. Between the media leaks and when and how the balls were handled by and by who, you don't know what to believe. But. Some do.

ditka41
01-27-2015, 09:13 PM
I have had some experience with footballs. In all this noise about it, would someone please explain exactly what advantage is obtained with a slightly reduced PSI? I just checked one with 13 Lbs and then let out 2 for comparison. Could hardly feel the difference. I am surprised I haven't seen any of the "talking heads" on TV perform such a simple test before ranting. This is much ado about nothing, again, just like the week before most other Super Bowls. They need to fill that empty week with something.

DonH57
01-27-2015, 09:52 PM
I have had some experience with footballs. In all this noise about it, would someone please explain exactly what advantage is obtained with a slightly reduced PSI? I just checked one with 13 Lbs and then let out 2 for comparison. Could hardly feel the difference. I am V perform such a simple test before ranting. This is much ado about nothing, again, just like the week before most other Super Bowls. They need to fill that empty week with something.

That's exactly right. All talking heads. I do know from experience that the little valve devices in football's, basket and soccer balls weaken with time and every time you pierce them to test pressure or add air will pass air. If you also familiar with Charles law of gases only inert gases do not change pressure with temperature.

ditka41
01-27-2015, 10:45 PM
I don't know how many times the needle would have to be inserted to lose 2 LBS due to leakage at the valve, but a game would be completed long before it happened. -- I wondered if this thread might morph into the topic of Nitrogen for your tires and applying that nonsense to footballs. Maybe some "talking head" will pick up on that one tomorrow? Helium anyone? That would add a new element to the result when they "float" a pass out to the flat.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-28-2015, 10:16 AM
They cheated. All the rationale in the world cannot excuse them either by denying an infraction, being no absolute proof, and all the other attempts to say they are just an innocent team that had been caught before but are now just honest people who would not do such a thing. Hello, they already have. It is interesting how many want them to be innocent and will dig up any and all possible excuses to say they are. The facts are: there were 24 balls 12 from Colts and 12 from NE. The 11 of the 12 from NE were in violation, 4 well known and past Superbowl QB have said that they must have known of the violations, each said they would have known when handling the ball(s). They have a history of "cheating". Let's really get real and recognize what they are and not what we would want them to be. Finally is the statement that so what if the ball was 2 PSI below the "rules". That is the ultimate of saying so what if they cheated you have to prove it impacted the game. NO. Just that they cheated.barf

I suppose that people read what they want and disregard other information. But. several other former NFL quarterbacks have come out and said that there is no way that anyone, including Tom Brady would have known that the balls were under inflated. Many experts and former players have come out on both sides of this issue.

But since you have all the facts and absolutely KNOW that The Patriots under inflated then balls, perhaps you should call the NFL and tell the that they should call off this investigation because you have the answer that they're looking for.

I've address the so called spy gate incident of seven years ago. It, like this was a minor, technical infraction of a rule. All teams video their opponents practices and it is allowed. You just can't do it outside of a designated area. The Patriots were guilty of making that small error and paid for it.

But, it's OK. You just go on hating and we will watch our team in the Superbowl.

Has everyone heard the latest, by the way? The equipment manager for the Patriots took the balls into the bathroom adjacent to the referees locker room for 90 seconds! Now, there's a smoking gun if I ever heard one. There is simply no other plausible reason for him to have gone into the bathroom for 90 seconds before heading out to the field with the balls other than to deflate 11 of them in that 90 seconds. I think that they have them cold now.

dbussone
01-28-2015, 10:33 AM
I suppose that people read what they want and disregard other information. But. several other former NFL quarterbacks have come out and said that there is no way that anyone, including Tom Brady would have known that the balls were under inflated. Many experts and former players have come out on both sides of this issue.

But since you have all the facts and absolutely KNOW that The Patriots under inflated then balls, perhaps you should call the NFL and tell the that they should call off this investigation because you have the answer that they're looking for.

I've address the so called spy gate incident of seven years ago. It, like this was a minor, technical infraction of a rule. All teams video their opponents practices and it is allowed. You just can't do it outside of a designated area. The Patriots were guilty of making that small error and paid for it.

But, it's OK. You just go on hating and we will watch our team in the Superbowl.

Has everyone heard the latest, by the way? The equipment manager for the Patriots took the balls into the bathroom adjacent to the referees locker room for 90 seconds! Now, there's a smoking gun if I ever heard one. There is simply no other plausible reason for him to have gone into the bathroom for 90 seconds before heading out to the field with the balls other than to deflate 11 of them in that 90 seconds. I think that they have them cold now.

Doc - I think we're just going to have to wait for the NFL to speak out. In the fog of deflation and the men's room steam we'll just have to wait until they rule to find out what is in it.

Go Pats

ROCKETMAN
01-28-2015, 10:35 AM
YES!!! And the coach should be suspended for at least half of next season!

Next time they play the packers:cryin2: could be the cheaters vs the choakers

2BNTV
01-28-2015, 10:42 AM
NE Pats won 3 Super Bowls with Belechick, along with the Spygate scandal.

NE is trying to win their 4th now, with the DeflateGate scandal.

The defateGate scandal could be much ado about nothing in terms of the size of a QB's hands and the grip of the football while attempting to pass. Some QB's seem to think this is not the difference in winning a game and some do.

I think it has more to do with the culture the coach has created. Everyone in the NFL says some things are just gamemanship and all teams try to get any advantage if possible. Everyone wants a level playing field and know they have been beaten honestly. Whether this really happened and who in the Pats organization was told to do this speaks more to the issue.

Roger Goodall always talks about protecting the NFL shield of integrity. Well, it's been a bad year for the NFL and it's personnel. Like all managers/coaches, they have to take the responsibility for what happens to the team.

Belechick is a great coach and a sure Hall of Fame type coach and certainly didn't need to cheat his way into greatness. Sadly, I think his legacy will be tarnished just like baseball players who have used PED'S.

Walter123
01-28-2015, 10:46 AM
Just like that game "Clue" The ballboy did it in the bathroom with a needle. Uck, tainted footballs, they've been in the bathroom!

CFrance
01-28-2015, 11:05 AM
Here is something amusing to take your mind off of all of this. Now, I never liked the Seahawks much because they whined so darn much after the Steelers beat them in the Super Bowl way back when. In fact, they're still whining about it. And I never liked the Patriots very much because they got caught blatantly videotaping in 2007,and oh yeah, that was the year they knocked us out of the playoffs, aided by said tapes.

So I was torn who to root for, or not to watch at all. But I have to watch, because it's the last football game of the season. Then I found this in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette today:

Ron Cook: Forget the Patriots -- Seahawks are hard to like | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron-cook/2015/01/27/Ron-Cook-2/stories/201501270110?utm_source=internal-edi&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=most-viewed-opinion&utm_campaign=Headlines-Newsletter)

Enjoy, whoever you're rooting for.

PennBF
01-28-2015, 12:49 PM
Belechick is not a Vince Lombardi who would not stoop so low as to cheat. He did tell his players that they should never help another player up but rather let them use their own strength to use up energy. That was what real coaches do, they don't try to cheat to win and he surly won games. In most places if you get caught cheating you are never allowed back and he was absolutely caught cheating in "spy gate". At that point he should have been banned for life from the game but it has become so crooked that people like him can continue to be what they are and coach or play. There are fans that never see evil but rationalize the violations to be something they are not. Anybody that doesn't believe a deflated ball could impact the game has never played football, anybody who doesn't know that an NFL QB could tell if a football is underinflated does not know football, anybody who thinks the coach does not know everything about the players and quipment does not know football, anybody who thinks that some players and coaches don't put money ahead of morals does not know pro football. The same goes on in the French Bike race, Major Leage Baseball, yes and Golf, and basketball,
what makes some think football is different and that a Belechick or Brady is above being like the other sports that had/have cheaters? :mornincoffee:

dbussone
01-28-2015, 12:54 PM
Here is something amusing to take your mind off of all of this. Now, I never liked the Seahawks much because they whined so darn much after the Steelers beat them in the Super Bowl way back when. In fact, they're still whining about it. And I never liked the Patriots very much because they got caught blatantly videotaping in 2007,and oh yeah, that was the year they knocked us out of the playoffs, aided by said tapes.

So I was torn who to root for, or not to watch at all. But I have to watch, because it's the last football game of the season. Then I found this in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette today:

Ron Cook: Forget the Patriots -- Seahawks are hard to like | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/ron-cook/2015/01/27/Ron-Cook-2/stories/201501270110?utm_source=internal-edi&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=most-viewed-opinion&utm_campaign=Headlines-Newsletter)

Enjoy, whoever you're rooting for.

Aha! Now we learn the truth.

DonH57
01-28-2015, 01:49 PM
Aha! Now we learn the truth.

I read this article this morning and found it to be interesting.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-28-2015, 08:26 PM
A couple of interesting articles as new information is beginning to come out.

» Who Exactly Is Mike Kensil? AKA – The Ringleader of Deflategate Barstool Sports: Boston (http://boston.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/who-exactly-is-mike-kensil-aka-the-ringleader-of-deflategate/)


Some Reporters Wonder If Patriots’ DeflateGate Was NFL Sting Operation | New England Patriots | NESN.com (http://nesn.com/2015/01/some-reporters-wonder-if-patriots-deflategate-was-sting-operation-by-nfl/)

dbussone
01-28-2015, 08:32 PM
A couple of interesting articles as new information is beginning to come out.

» Who Exactly Is Mike Kensil? AKA – The Ringleader of Deflategate Barstool Sports: Boston (http://boston.barstoolsports.com/random-thoughts/who-exactly-is-mike-kensil-aka-the-ringleader-of-deflategate/)


Some Reporters Wonder If Patriots’ DeflateGate Was NFL Sting Operation | New England Patriots | NESN.com (http://nesn.com/2015/01/some-reporters-wonder-if-patriots-deflategate-was-sting-operation-by-nfl/)

Excellent articles Doc. Thanks for the research. The haters will continue to hate (jealous as they are) and we can start chillin in order to be ready for the Game.

Go Pats!

PennBF
01-28-2015, 10:09 PM
There is an old debating statement. When you don't have the facts call names. I have intentionally avoided labeling anyone as a hater,etc. I have noted that there are indicators as to the quality of knowledge regarding football. I kind of feel I have a pretty good knowledge on the subject. That knowlege has led me to believe that prior behavior, (e.g. cheating), and current behavior, (e.g. deflated footballs directly associated with the Patriots) is not an accident of fate but rather a pretty strong indicator of a team that lost its moral compass. It takes a strong rationale to believe these are just accidents even though no other team has 2+ cheating like accidents in their relative current history. Lest we forget the Raven's noted the problem after their game and before the game balls in question. I will leave this alone but did not want to leave the impression that I would allow any of my own behavior waste energy in hating a group of professional millionare players. Now that would really be stupid! :mornincoffee:

dbussone
01-28-2015, 10:51 PM
I was a debater. Another saying was: if you don't know the facts, make them up.

Bosoxfan
01-29-2015, 05:43 AM
47307belechick is not a vince lombardi who would not stoop so low as to cheat. He did tell his players that they should never help another player up but rather let them use their own strength to use up energy. That was what real coaches do, they don't try to cheat to win and he surly won games. In most places if you get caught cheating you are never allowed back and he was absolutely caught cheating in "spy gate". At that point he should have been banned for life from the game but it has become so crooked that people like him can continue to be what they are and coach or play. There are fans that never see evil but rationalize the violations to be something they are not. Anybody that doesn't believe a deflated ball could impact the game has never played football, anybody who doesn't know that an nfl qb could tell if a football is underinflated does not know football, anybody who thinks the coach does not know everything about the players and quipment does not know football, anybody who thinks that some players and coaches don't put money ahead of morals does not know pro football. The same goes on in the french bike race, major leage baseball, yes and golf, and basketball,
what makes some think football is different and that a belechick or brady is above being like the other sports that had/have cheaters? :mornincoffee:

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-29-2015, 08:40 AM
There is an old debating statement. When you don't have the facts call names. I have intentionally avoided labeling anyone as a hater,etc. I have noted that there are indicators as to the quality of knowledge regarding football. I kind of feel I have a pretty good knowledge on the subject. That knowlege has led me to believe that prior behavior, (e.g. cheating), and current behavior, (e.g. deflated footballs directly associated with the Patriots) is not an accident of fate but rather a pretty strong indicator of a team that lost its moral compass. It takes a strong rationale to believe these are just accidents even though no other team has 2+ cheating like accidents in their relative current history. Lest we forget the Raven's noted the problem after their game and before the game balls in question. I will leave this alone but did not want to leave the impression that I would allow any of my own behavior waste energy in hating a group of professional millionare players. Now that would really be stupid! :mornincoffee:

Interesting that in the same breath accuse people of calling names and then call people who root for or against their football team stupid.

I get it though. You are better and smarter than the rest of us. You are above rooting for sports teams and have no interest in "millionaire players." I really get that.

What I don't get is why someone that has no interest in this continues to respond to this thread.

MarkinMd
01-29-2015, 09:02 AM
Doc, Who are you rooting for? Just kidding.

PennBF
01-29-2015, 10:11 AM
Actually the behavior of some regarding a Professional team and behavior is what is interesting. Lets start by being objective. We know that most if not all of the players are not from Boston or Mass. and probanly some have never even visited Boston. We know they are very skilled in their chosen profession of football. We know that most have graduated from different Colleges. Based on this the only rationale conclusion is that it makes sense to cheer for a team because a person believes they are better skilled in their positions/play. What then becomes behavior of interest is why some feel the need to identify the team with a particular city or state and go to extremes to defend the team's association with these locations. My interest in the subject is not to defend a team based on location but rather skill. The behavior observation is to be able to see how far some will go to apply their anger and ggressiveness in defending a city or state based on a team which really has nothing to do with locations. In some of these notes there are really interesting behaviors relative to rationaling the Patriots cheating in order to protect the city or state reputation. I find this to be the most interesting. I certaintly don't hold Boston or Mass at all responsible for the Patriots cheating. Now that would be silly. :cold:

Bruiser1
01-29-2015, 10:35 AM
Welcome to the "information Age"

Rather than facts ,figure and research the Media spins their opinion on what direction their opinions are. Rather than report significant events (World leaders passing, tragedies happening, Economies collapsing) the major media screams about the inflated properties of a ball! This was top three news story for entire week!

DonH57
01-29-2015, 10:47 AM
Welcome to the "information Age"

Rather than facts ,figure and research the Media spins their opinion on what direction their opinions are. Rather than report significant events (World leaders passing, tragedies happening, Economies collapsing) the major media screams about the inflated properties of a ball! This was top three news story for entire week!

It was ashamed that was the top story of the week and the gullible take it hook, line, and sinker. It's what the media's come too.::024:

janmcn
01-29-2015, 11:10 AM
Actually the behavior of some regarding a Professional team and behavior is what is interesting. Lets start by being objective. We know that most if not all of the players are not from Boston or Mass. and probanly some have never even visited Boston. We know they are very skilled in their chosen profession of football. We know that most have graduated from different Colleges. Based on this the only rationale conclusion is that it makes sense to cheer for a team because a person believes they are better skilled in their positions/play. What then becomes behavior of interest is why some feel the need to identify the team with a particular city or state and go to extremes to defend the team's association with these locations. My interest in the subject is not to defend a team based on location but rather skill. The behavior observation is to be able to see how far some will go to apply their anger and ggressiveness in defending a city or state based on a team which really has nothing to do with locations. In some of these notes there are really interesting behaviors relative to rationaling the Patriots cheating in order to protect the city or state reputation. I find this to be the most interesting. I certaintly don't hold Boston or Mass at all responsible for the Patriots cheating. Now that would be silly. :cold:


The Patriots are the only NFL team that represent an entire region of the country, not only a city or a state. They are the New England Patriots, not the Boston Patriots or the Massachusetts Patriots. They represent the entire New England area. Don't know what your point is exactly.

PennBF
01-29-2015, 11:19 AM
Oop's. Sorry just replace where I mentioned Boston or Mass with north eastern United States. The change has no impact on what I wrote as the same applies. Again, we go from identifying the team with a city or state to a general location in the US. The behavior is the same just the size of the area or acre's. I will not go further in clarifying as it would be kind of obvious and difficult as to why it needs further clarification?? There are a number of books on the subject which are no only informative but rewarding to read.:cold:

Tobys Dad
01-29-2015, 11:37 AM
Can't wait for the game. So much BS on this site. Hopefully after the game everyone can go back to their fun life!

mtdjed
01-29-2015, 05:40 PM
190 Blogs should be enough to call for a vote, or else go on with life.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-29-2015, 08:01 PM
Actually the behavior of some regarding a Professional team and behavior is what is interesting. Lets start by being objective. We know that most if not all of the players are not from Boston or Mass. and probanly some have never even visited Boston. We know they are very skilled in their chosen profession of football. We know that most have graduated from different Colleges. Based on this the only rationale conclusion is that it makes sense to cheer for a team because a person believes they are better skilled in their positions/play. What then becomes behavior of interest is why some feel the need to identify the team with a particular city or state and go to extremes to defend the team's association with these locations. My interest in the subject is not to defend a team based on location but rather skill. The behavior observation is to be able to see how far some will go to apply their anger and ggressiveness in defending a city or state based on a team which really has nothing to do with locations. In some of these notes there are really interesting behaviors relative to rationaling the Patriots cheating in order to protect the city or state reputation. I find this to be the most interesting. I certaintly don't hold Boston or Mass at all responsible for the Patriots cheating. Now that would be silly. :cold:

I think we all get it. You are calm, rational and more intelligent than most people. I think that we all get that. You don't have to try to prove it any longer.

billethkid
01-29-2015, 08:17 PM
all about air in a football that not many know anything about the subject....not that anybody cared.....or cares.....it is another media circus.....while everybody else that foes the same thing merrily goes about the business of footballing (?).

If there were 100 footbals and half of them were one pound less than the rest I would be willing to bet there would be very, very few...if any....who could pick them up put them down and ID which is which. And nobody would care.
Just like the story.

The soft footballs and the winter weather have been consuming more than 60% of the national news. I think it is a conspiracy to take our minds off the real problems in the world......politics and media as usual....

just kidding....:icon_wink:

dbussone
01-29-2015, 08:23 PM
all about air in a football that not many know anything about the subject....not that anybody cared.....or cares.....it is another media circus.....while everybody else that foes the same thing merrily goes about the business of footballing (?).

If there were 100 footbals and half of them were one pound less than the rest I would be willing to bet there would be very, very few...if any....who could pick them up put them down and ID which is which. And nobody would care.
Just like the story.

The soft footballs and the winter weather have been consuming more than 60% of the national news. I think it is a conspiracy to take our minds off the real problems in the world......politics and media as usual....

just kidding....:icon_wink:

And now I want to know who gave Brady a cold? PennBF? ::jester::

Bosoxfan
01-29-2015, 08:26 PM
Retired Pro Bowl quarterback Jeff Blake says that removing air from footballs was common when he played in the NFL from 1992-2005.

“I’m just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played,” the ex-Jets QB said Wednesday in a radio interview on the “Midday 180″ show on Nashville’s 104.5 The Zone. “Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can’t feel the ball as well. It’s too hard.

“Everybody puts the pin in and takes just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it’s not the point to where it’s flat. So I don’t know what the big deal is. It’s not something that’s not been done for 20 years. … I would say (to a ball boy), ‘Take a little bit of air out of it. It’s a little bit hard,'” Blake said. “And then he’d take a little bit out and I’d squeeze it and I’d be like, ‘OK, it’s perfect.’ That’s it.”

Oh dear Lord. This is a scandal I don’t think we’ll ever recover from.

I mean, the air pressure inside eleven footballs during one half of a blowout football game has been the biggest story of 2015. So this ought to rock America to it’s very foundation. Apparently football pressure integrity is one of the pillars of our republic. Written into the Constitution somewhere between free speech and right to a jury trial.

So the fact that NFL quarterbacks have been letting the air out of balls since Tom Brady was wearing Garanimals just gives lie to everything we stand for. Forget Watergate or Teapot Dome or the 1919 Black Sox. This is the kind of crisis that gives lie to everything you ever believed in. Once you’ve lost faith in your ability to believe in the sanctity of “12.5-to-14.5 PSI,” how can you trust anything ever again?

We might as well just take all the Lombardi trophies won over the last twenty years and just melt them down into asterisks, disband every NFL team, raze all the stadiums, close down civilization and go move back to the forest because our whole lives have been a lie. This is exactly what the Fall of Rome must have felt like.* Oh well, America. It was fun while it lasted.

dbussone
01-29-2015, 08:33 PM
Retired Pro Bowl quarterback Jeff Blake says that removing air from footballs was common when he played in the NFL from 1992-2005.

“I’m just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played,” the ex-Jets QB said Wednesday in a radio interview on the “Midday 180″ show on Nashville’s 104.5 The Zone. “Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can’t feel the ball as well. It’s too hard.

“Everybody puts the pin in and takes just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it’s not the point to where it’s flat. So I don’t know what the big deal is. It’s not something that’s not been done for 20 years. … I would say (to a ball boy), ‘Take a little bit of air out of it. It’s a little bit hard,'” Blake said. “And then he’d take a little bit out and I’d squeeze it and I’d be like, ‘OK, it’s perfect.’ That’s it.”

Oh dear Lord. This is a scandal I don’t think we’ll ever recover from.

I mean, the air pressure inside eleven footballs during one half of a blowout football game has been the biggest story of 2015. So this ought to rock America to it’s very foundation. Apparently football pressure integrity is one of the pillars of our republic. Written into the Constitution somewhere between free speech and right to a jury trial.

So the fact that NFL quarterbacks have been letting the air out of balls since Tom Brady was wearing Garanimals just gives lie to everything we stand for. Forget Watergate or Teapot Dome or the 1919 Black Sox. This is the kind of crisis that gives lie to everything you ever believed in. Once you’ve lost faith in your ability to believe in the sanctity of “12.5-to-14.5 PSI,” how can you trust anything ever again?

We might as well just take all the Lombardi trophies won over the last twenty years and just melt them down into asterisks, disband every NFL team, raze all the stadiums, close down civilization and go move back to the forest because our whole lives have been a lie. This is exactly what the Fall of Rome must have felt like.* Oh well, America. It was fun while it lasted.

Your astute analysis will undoubtedly lead to a major decline in the financial markets. Well done; Go Pats.

Football is obviously done before the SuperBowl. Looking forward to the Red Sox first training season game?

DougB
01-30-2015, 07:17 PM
Close call when the Pats landed in Arizona. Someone deflated the tires on their plane.

mtdjed
01-30-2015, 07:48 PM
CSI Deflate-gate is found to be trash talk to Seattle Seahawks. End of story.

Bosoxfan
01-30-2015, 09:08 PM
How The NFL Made a Fool of You With "Deflategate"

If you are a football fan that feels as though the Patriots have hurt the integrity of your precious sport with the PSI of a game ball, or a member of the media who took to your laptops and the airwaves to editorialize your distrust of Bill Belichick and Tom Brady and Bob Kraft, then you should be mad right now; because the NFL played you like a fiddle.*

*They made a mockery of you. They dangled the bait in front of you and you snapped it up so quickly and with so much vigor that they haven’t even had to come out and speak to you and answer your questions; because you haven’t even asked them to.

And they knew that you wouldn’t.

They dared you to inundate an entire team of athletes and personnel with accusations based on your lingering distrust of Bill Belichick post-SpyGate; distrust that constantly leaves you calling for his resignation and/or the confiscation of his Super Bowl rings despite the fact that you have failed to exhibit the same vitriol for the also-highly-decorated Jimmy Johnson who admitted to doing the same exact thing.

You went on the radio and the internet and TV and indicted the Patriots based on nothing other than a couple of flimsy reports and an announcement of an investigation. You did that knowing that despite it being enough of a story that Belichick and Brady were at the podium talking to you about it, the NFL had inexplicably failed to even have a conversation with Brady yet. You did that knowing that this is the same exact league and Commissioner whose credibility you’d spent most of the season dismantling.

You wanted and needed so badly to believe that the Patriots couldn’t possibly be the dynasty that has reigned supreme over the last fourteen years that you gave the NFL the benefit of the doubt.

The league that tried to cover up their knowledge of a video of Ray Rice knocking his fiancé unconscious with a punch to the face, then had their Commissioner stand up in front of you and dare you to try to make him pay any consequences for it.

The league that, in the interest of financial gain, ignored and covered up the brutal health implications of playing for them until a beloved Hall of Fame linebacker killed himself and donated his brain to science in the hopes that it may save the lives of other players.

Why has it not also been shoved down your throats that they’re investigating the Browns for illegal use of electronic devices for sideline communication, or that the Chargers were fined in 2012 for cheating through illegal use of towels with a hidden substance? Where was the viral outrage when the Cowboys and Redskins were fined millions in cap dollars after being found guilty of purposely dumping salaries into the uncapped year in 2010?*

*Wait, you will love this one. Why didn’t the NFL deem it necessary to make quarterbacks and coaches speak to their accountability and respect for the integrity of the game when just TWO MONTHS AGO they caught the Vikings heating game balls on the sideline in a 12-degree game against the Panthers after they supposedly reminded both teams that it was illegal to do so? (Full credit and big thanks to*Pats Krieg for compiling these.)

The NFL’s brilliant leaking of a “possible” Patriots scandal was enough to incite such a frenzy that you immediately repudiated the trustworthiness of Brady; one of the NFL’s pillars of sportsmanship and someone who has never previously been accused of being a cheater (or drug-user or rapist or animal endangerer or criminal of any kind). Not only did you question him but you attacked him. With nearly no provocation and armed with only a vague statement from an NFL spokesperson and unofficial reports from other sources, you labeled Brady a liar and a cheater.

After he told you that he didn’t do anything wrong and stood and answered your questions for 35 minutes, you came on television and arrogantly rattled on about “disappointment” in him; disappointment based on the inflation level of game balls that almost every single current and former player agrees is a non-issue. That consensus is further backed up by the lack of outrage when the aforementioned ball-tampering in Minnesota popped up in November of 2014.

Aaron Rodgers admitted that he hopes his purposely over-inflated balls sneak by the referees’ inspection, and you dismissed that as not cheating. Because you know that the pressure of the balls does not win you NFL games. You aren’t mad about deflation or inflation; you just want to hate the Patriots.*

The problem is that if you do think that the Patriots benefit from ball pressure, then Rodgers just told you that he does too. You’re not going to start a war against Rodgers, so you make it about principle. It’s “the principle” of the matter.

Okay. That’s what they were figuring you would do.

So now we are nine days into this thing while fast approaching the Super Bowl, and the NFL has not even had to come out and actually call the Patriots cheaters. Nor have they addressed the issue directly to the media or the public. A spokesperson confirmed that there was an investigation. Then five days ago the NFL released a statement that took three paragraphs to say exactly what the spokesperson had confirmed: that they are investigating. The only notable addition was to note that the Patriots are cooperating fully with said investigation as well as a particularly preposterous paragraph in which they explain the reconnaissance mission in terms more suited for the script of an episode of CSI.

The fact that you so willingly fell into this trap is a testament to just how much power the NFL has over you. They handed you the narrative that they knew you wanted. They figured they could solve the “indignity” that the league had suffered at the hands of the mighty cheating Patriots by throwing the book*at the "bad guys”. They’d even do it to Bob Kraft to show you how they don’t play favorites.

What better way to help solve an image issue than align yourself with the masses against a common enemy? Bravo to Goodell.*He "cracked down" on cheating without further angering any of the NFL owners that already don't like him.

You bought it hook, line and sinker because you're under the delusion that your team is all clear eyes-full hearts and has somehow been victimized by this. It is one thing to buy into a perfectly timed PR stunt. It’s another thing entirely to fall into the ignorant space between conspiracy and reality that*enables you to continuously denounce the NFL and its most successful franchise as cheaters and liars, yet still voraciously consume their product that they've pitted you against.*

The only way that this league will change for the better is if you stop letting the NFL take you for such fools.*

mtdjed
01-30-2015, 09:14 PM
Do you think the CHEATERS should get bounced out of the super bowl?

There are no cheaters. It was just trash talk against Seattle to get them riled. Just like saying Brady has a cold.

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-30-2015, 09:19 PM
It really is incredible. A few footballs were under inflated by a small amount.

The league has launched an investigation to try to determine how this happened.

There has not even been an accusation or an allegation by anyone and yet people are calling the entire team cheaters, calling for them to be banned from the Super Bowl and fined.

The whole thing is really pretty ridiculous, isn't it?

PennBF
01-30-2015, 09:27 PM
NE has and are cheaters. Their problem is they got caught. All the analysis of how PR usage suckers those who listen to the media, etc is smoke trying to divert from the very basic point. The Patriots cheated and have cheated and how anyone wants to deal with that is their business. To go into denial is a disorder that will not be changed by a few notes in TOTV's. Stay on point: They cheated in the past and there is no basis to believe they cleaned up their act. Remember the best predication of the future is the past. Hope that rings a bell for some. :bowdown:

The Great Fumar
01-30-2015, 10:28 PM
Those of us who have actually played the game know that an underinflated ball is not an advantage....Its harder to throw a tight spiral therefore less accurate, punts won't travel as far and field goals won't track as true toward the uprights..........I'll take a max inflated ball any day...........
What we have to keep in mind here is that this not Penn State , This is the best team in Pro Football.............

fieldgoal fumar

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
01-31-2015, 05:15 AM
NE has and are cheaters. Their problem is they got caught. All the analysis of how PR usage suckers those who listen to the media, etc is smoke trying to divert from the very basic point. The Patriots cheated and have cheated and how anyone wants to deal with that is their business. To go into denial is a disorder that will not be changed by a few notes in TOTV's. Stay on point: They cheated in the past and there is no basis to believe they cleaned up their act. Remember the best predication of the future is the past. Hope that rings a bell for some. :bowdown:

Thank you for that information. I'd love to see the details of the extensive investigation that you have done to come to that conclusion.

Other than the fact that they got caught on a minor technical violation of a rule seven years ago, by taking video from just outside of that approved area, I'm not sure how to can say conclusively that they had anything to do with the balls being under inflated. The past is the the past and has nothing to do with this incident.

There is absolutely not one shred of evidence to show that they had anything to do with it. But you have evidently come up with some information that the rest of us don't have. I'd really love to see what you turned up. Because, without that, there is no basis to believe that they did anything wrong. To go into denial of that is a disorder that will not be changed by a few notes in TOTV's.

TheVillageChicken
01-31-2015, 07:07 AM
This is chump change when compared to steroid use, players like Suh intentionally cleat stomping quarterbacks, etc.

mtdjed
01-31-2015, 08:01 AM
Who makes NFL Footballs? What is the name of the Seattle quarterback? The signal was sent.

dbussone
01-31-2015, 08:05 AM
How The NFL Made a Fool of You With "Deflategate"

If you are a football fan that feels as though the Patriots have hurt the integrity of your precious sport with the PSI of a game ball, or a member of the media who took to your laptops and the airwaves to editorialize your distrust of Bill Belichick and Tom Brady and Bob Kraft, then you should be mad right now; because the NFL played you like a fiddle.*

*They made a mockery of you. They dangled the bait in front of you and you snapped it up so quickly and with so much vigor that they haven’t even had to come out and speak to you and answer your questions; because you haven’t even asked them to.

And they knew that you wouldn’t.

They dared you to inundate an entire team of athletes and personnel with accusations based on your lingering distrust of Bill Belichick post-SpyGate; distrust that constantly leaves you calling for his resignation and/or the confiscation of his Super Bowl rings despite the fact that you have failed to exhibit the same vitriol for the also-highly-decorated Jimmy Johnson who admitted to doing the same exact thing.

You went on the radio and the internet and TV and indicted the Patriots based on nothing other than a couple of flimsy reports and an announcement of an investigation. You did that knowing that despite it being enough of a story that Belichick and Brady were at the podium talking to you about it, the NFL had inexplicably failed to even have a conversation with Brady yet. You did that knowing that this is the same exact league and Commissioner whose credibility you’d spent most of the season dismantling.

You wanted and needed so badly to believe that the Patriots couldn’t possibly be the dynasty that has reigned supreme over the last fourteen years that you gave the NFL the benefit of the doubt.

The league that tried to cover up their knowledge of a video of Ray Rice knocking his fiancé unconscious with a punch to the face, then had their Commissioner stand up in front of you and dare you to try to make him pay any consequences for it.

The league that, in the interest of financial gain, ignored and covered up the brutal health implications of playing for them until a beloved Hall of Fame linebacker killed himself and donated his brain to science in the hopes that it may save the lives of other players.

Why has it not also been shoved down your throats that they’re investigating the Browns for illegal use of electronic devices for sideline communication, or that the Chargers were fined in 2012 for cheating through illegal use of towels with a hidden substance? Where was the viral outrage when the Cowboys and Redskins were fined millions in cap dollars after being found guilty of purposely dumping salaries into the uncapped year in 2010?*

*Wait, you will love this one. Why didn’t the NFL deem it necessary to make quarterbacks and coaches speak to their accountability and respect for the integrity of the game when just TWO MONTHS AGO they caught the Vikings heating game balls on the sideline in a 12-degree game against the Panthers after they supposedly reminded both teams that it was illegal to do so? (Full credit and big thanks to*Pats Krieg for compiling these.)

The NFL’s brilliant leaking of a “possible” Patriots scandal was enough to incite such a frenzy that you immediately repudiated the trustworthiness of Brady; one of the NFL’s pillars of sportsmanship and someone who has never previously been accused of being a cheater (or drug-user or rapist or animal endangerer or criminal of any kind). Not only did you question him but you attacked him. With nearly no provocation and armed with only a vague statement from an NFL spokesperson and unofficial reports from other sources, you labeled Brady a liar and a cheater.

After he told you that he didn’t do anything wrong and stood and answered your questions for 35 minutes, you came on television and arrogantly rattled on about “disappointment” in him; disappointment based on the inflation level of game balls that almost every single current and former player agrees is a non-issue. That consensus is further backed up by the lack of outrage when the aforementioned ball-tampering in Minnesota popped up in November of 2014.

Aaron Rodgers admitted that he hopes his purposely over-inflated balls sneak by the referees’ inspection, and you dismissed that as not cheating. Because you know that the pressure of the balls does not win you NFL games. You aren’t mad about deflation or inflation; you just want to hate the Patriots.*

The problem is that if you do think that the Patriots benefit from ball pressure, then Rodgers just told you that he does too. You’re not going to start a war against Rodgers, so you make it about principle. It’s “the principle” of the matter.

Okay. That’s what they were figuring you would do.

So now we are nine days into this thing while fast approaching the Super Bowl, and the NFL has not even had to come out and actually call the Patriots cheaters. Nor have they addressed the issue directly to the media or the public. A spokesperson confirmed that there was an investigation. Then five days ago the NFL released a statement that took three paragraphs to say exactly what the spokesperson had confirmed: that they are investigating. The only notable addition was to note that the Patriots are cooperating fully with said investigation as well as a particularly preposterous paragraph in which they explain the reconnaissance mission in terms more suited for the script of an episode of CSI.

The fact that you so willingly fell into this trap is a testament to just how much power the NFL has over you. They handed you the narrative that they knew you wanted. They figured they could solve the “indignity” that the league had suffered at the hands of the mighty cheating Patriots by throwing the book*at the "bad guys”. They’d even do it to Bob Kraft to show you how they don’t play favorites.

What better way to help solve an image issue than align yourself with the masses against a common enemy? Bravo to Goodell.*He "cracked down" on cheating without further angering any of the NFL owners that already don't like him.

You bought it hook, line and sinker because you're under the delusion that your team is all clear eyes-full hearts and has somehow been victimized by this. It is one thing to buy into a perfectly timed PR stunt. It’s another thing entirely to fall into the ignorant space between conspiracy and reality that*enables you to continuously denounce the NFL and its most successful franchise as cheaters and liars, yet still voraciously consume their product that they've pitted you against.*

The only way that this league will change for the better is if you stop letting the NFL take you for such fools.*


What he said

DonH57
01-31-2015, 08:31 AM
The next complaint from a crying team the Patriots beat will claim something was amiss with the cleats on their shoes or they were using a primitive language while calling signals.

DonH57
01-31-2015, 08:49 AM
Those of us who have actually played the game know that an underinflated ball is not an advantage....Its harder to throw a tight spiral therefore less accurate, punts won't travel as far and field goals won't track as true toward the uprights..........I'll take a max inflated ball any day...........
What we have to keep in mind here is that this not Penn State , This is the best team in Pro Football.............

fieldgoal fumar

Ya got that right. :agree:

redwitch
01-31-2015, 09:21 AM
None if this matters. Whether you love or hate the Pats is irrelevant. Whatever the findings ultimately are is totally inconsequentail. It will be another black mark against the Pats.

Fans will defend the under inflation as they have the video taping and the plowing of the field for their kicker. And please remember that just because something is legal doesn't make it morally right. Non-fans will continue to rail against the Pats.

Fact: Tom Brady is a great QB and a truly decent guy.

Fact: Belichick skirts the line and will take any advantage he can. There is a reason Shula calls him Belicheat.

FACT: the Pats don't need any edge. They are a great franchise right now whether those of us who dislike them want to admit it or not.

Defending the Pats is not going to make an iota of difference to any of this. Railing against the Pats and the tarnishing of the purity of the game is not going to make an iota of difference to any of this. The Super Bowl will be played. Either the much loved/loathed Pats will win or the Seachickens will win. We will all enjoy the commercials and possibly the halftime show. Odds are that Monday discussions will be had about the latter two and little will be said about the actual game.

Personally, I will keep on loathing the Pats, I will keep the Dolphins close to my heart (but they almost lost me when they hired Johnson, whom I detest even more that the Pats) and I will happily cheer when the Niners win a game.

PennBF
01-31-2015, 09:46 AM
(1) 24 footballs, 12 from Colts 12 from Patriots. 46% PSI were violating rules, All were Patriots, Another way, 92% of Patriots balls violated rules, 0% of Colts, (2) Ravens complained prior to Colts game that Patriots violated in their game, (3) Patriots history is cheating, (4) 5 NFL QB's said they would know if the PSI rule had been violated by the feel,(5) NFL QB on late night show (Connan) was given a ball with 13 PSI and 11 PSI and in the blind he identified each to the precise PSI just by feel, (6) an underdeflated ball provides the advantage of a shorter punt which give the opposing team less chance of "touch back" and kicking team a better chance of stoping run prior to 20 yd line, (7) when raining it gives the QB a better grip on the ball and less chance of fumble, slipping out of hand and better control as can grip lighter and firmer, etc. It was raining.
I don't think it takes Colombo to call this one! Now if some still believe the Patriots were a clean honest team I have a bridge to sell and a 52 Chevy only driven by a little old school teacher in Sand Diego.
A number of others have played football and understand the advantages and benefits of a cheating team. As I have said, over looking these violations and giving the team a pass on meeting moral and ethical values is worry some.?:bowdown:

Bosoxfan
01-31-2015, 09:08 PM
47340

dbussone
01-31-2015, 09:10 PM
47340


Right on! Go Pats.

DonH57
01-31-2015, 11:20 PM
Go Pats..........

Bosoxfan
02-01-2015, 08:51 AM
Breaking News: Pat Patriot apparently slept with every member of the New England Patriots cheerleading squad the night before the Super Bowl. They're calling it Sleepgate!!!

47341

l2ridehd
02-01-2015, 08:52 AM
I hope they win today by 50 points so that no one can say anything but the best team won.

And every golfer who complained about the football and has always had to play with a Titilest ball can never find anything but a Topflight forever.

PennBF
02-01-2015, 12:04 PM
It is ironic that the title of this post is "New England Cheaters" and I would bet the farm 99% of the people who read or posted never raised a question in their mind as to who the post was meant for and the subject matter!! As a couple of well known famous QB's from the NFL said that not one thing happens in the game including the balls, the field condition, the player shoes, etc.etc. without
Belichick and the quarterback knowing. To believe otherwise is to indicate you have never played pro football or worked for one of the organizations. Of course Belichick and the QB knew the balls were underinflated and were violating the rules. It is also ironic that some point to how many points that NE won by and that regardless of the condition of the ball they would have won. That may or may not have been true but to use that as an logic for cheating kind of lacks morals and ethics If you win it is ok to cheat. Where does that logic come from? As I understand it, if you get caught cheating in Vegas you are banned from ever working of entering a Casino in the state. Maybe the NFL should take a page out of that book?:ohdear:

Bosoxfan
02-01-2015, 03:46 PM
It is ironic that the title of this post is "New England Cheaters" and I would bet the farm 99% of the people who read or posted never raised a question in their mind as to who the post was meant for and the subject matter!! As a couple of well known famous QB's from the NFL said that not one thing happens in the game including the balls, the field condition, the player shoes, etc.etc. without
Belichick and the quarterback knowing. To believe otherwise is to indicate you have never played pro football or worked for one of the organizations. Of course Belichick and the QB knew the balls were underinflated and were violating the rules. It is also ironic that some point to how many points that NE won by and that regardless of the condition of the ball they would have won. That may or may not have been true but to use that as an logic for cheating kind of lacks morals and ethics If you win it is ok to cheat. Where does that logic come from? As I understand it, if you get caught cheating in Vegas you are banned from ever working of entering a Casino in the state. Maybe the NFL should take a page out of that book?:ohdear:

Report: Only 1 ball from AFC championship was 2 PSI low, others just ‘a tick’ below regulation
02.01.15 at 12:11 pm ET
By Mike Petraglia
Bill Belichick speaks Monday at the team headquarters in Chandler, Ariz. (Mike Petraglia/WEEI.com)

Bill Belichick speaks Monday at the team headquarters in Chandler, Ariz. (Mike Petraglia/WEEI.com)

GLENDALE, Ariz. — As the Patriots prepare to take the field for Super Bowl XLIX, they are apparently looking more and more like winners in the Deflategate saga.

According to the NFL Network’s Ian Rapoport, only one of the 12 balls used by the Patriots in the AFC championship was a full 2 PSI below regulation while the other 11 found to be below spec were only “a tick” below regulation.

This news contradicts a report from Chris Mortensen two days after the AFC title game that 11 of the balls were found to be as much as a full 2 PSI below regulation.

There is an ongoing investigation being conducted by Ted Wells into how the balls were handled before the AFC championship game and if there were serious protocol violations by the Patriots. Patriots owner Robert Kraft sounded a confident tone Monday night upon the team’s arrival in Phoenix, expressing his support of Tom Brady and Bill Belichick and demanding an apology from the league if the report clears the team.

In his state of the league address on Friday, commissioner Roger Goodell said he’s not drawn any conclusions and will let the report speak for the league.

But the more that comes out, the more it appears the Patriots will be vindicated. Here is more from Rapoport on Sunday morning:
Prior to the game, a game-day worker employed by the Patriots, a man described as elderly, took two bags of 12 footballs (one bag from each team) into the restroom near the referees’ room in Gillette Stadium. The man was in the room for 98 seconds. When he exited the room, he took the balls to the field. There is video of the man entering and exiting the bathroom, but it’s unclear if there is a clear shot inside the restroom.
That the man entered the restroom prior to walking with the footballs onto the field was discovered by the Patriots, and video footage was quickly turned over to Ted Wells for his investigation.
When coach Bill Belichick and Tom Brady were told there were questions about the footballs, both were incredulous. Belichick indicated privately what he said publicly: That he had little knowledge of what went into pregame footballs. Brady told someone close to him that he works on the footballs all week, then has no idea what happens to them on gameday.
Eleven of the 12 footballs used in the first half were judged by the officials to be under the minimum of 12.5 PSI, but just one was two pounds under. Many of them were just a few ticks under the minimum.
Many of the footballs used in the AFC title game, which all have Walt Anderson’s initials on them, were returned to circulation among the rest of the Patriots game-day footballs. Because Anderson was the referee for two other Patriots games this season, there are more than 30 footballs with his initials in the team’s possession. It appears the league has the football D’Qwell Jackson intercepted and took to the sidelines to ultimately hand over to his equipment staff.
47

redwitch
02-01-2015, 04:28 PM
Wonder what a "tick" measurement is?

Bonnevie
02-01-2015, 04:59 PM
it begs the question then, if it wasn't an advantage, why was it done? Brady was just interviewed about it on TV and boy did he look guilty. All he had to do was emphatically say he knew nothing about it but he didn't. He danced all around it. A rule is a rule and it was broken. If it didn't matter, it wouldn't be a rule. It's unfortunate, because I do believe New England is a great team and I have a lot respect for Tom Brady. But this was bush league and beneath them. I say this as someone who is apathetic about who wins.

Ed Krik
02-01-2015, 05:01 PM
I worked in the computer industry all my adult life. when we were given specs there would be a high and a low with a margin of error of +/- 5%. So in my opinion a tick would be in spec and the balls would be legal, but this is my opinion. What the NFL released is fact it's fact what they found, unlike other posts filled with hearsay and innuendos. But why let the truth get in the way of a good story. If you shout false statements long enough and loud enough it may become the truth.

GO PATS

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
02-01-2015, 11:02 PM
Here's another story for all of you who are so sure that The Patriots cheated.

Deflategate twist: Only one of Patriots' 12 balls were under-inflated - NFL - SI.com (http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/02/01/deflategate-only-one-patriots-football-underinflated)

It's becoming more and more apparent every day that they didn't cheat.

Of course, the haters will keep going on and on about it hoping that they can get more people hating right along with them, but ti's going to backfire.

It's time to stop calling them cheaters and call them what the are. The 2015 Super Bowl Champions.

Bosoxfan
02-01-2015, 11:07 PM
Champs again! Enough said!

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
02-01-2015, 11:09 PM
it begs the question then, if it wasn't an advantage, why was it done? Brady was just interviewed about it on TV and boy did he look guilty. All he had to do was emphatically say he knew nothing about it but he didn't. He danced all around it. A rule is a rule and it was broken. If it didn't matter, it wouldn't be a rule. It's unfortunate, because I do believe New England is a great team and I have a lot respect for Tom Brady. But this was bush league and beneath them. I say this as someone who is apathetic about who wins.

There is nothing bush league about anything that was done. They are not guilty of anything. Ten of the balls were found to be very slightly under the legal limit of 12.5 PSI. Brady has stated that he liked his footballs to be exactly 12.5 PSI. It's entirely possible that the measurement could have been off by a tick or two. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me that if the balls were measured two or three time that they might have gotten two or three different reading all within .01 PSI. The fact is that they didn't do anything to the footballs and all of this was either the result of faulty measuring, tolerances, or atmospheric conditions. Who knows, the ball that was down by 2 PSI might have been slammed into the ground or landed upon buy a 350 pound linemen.

So let's stop all the hating and congratulate the 2015 Super Bowl Champions.

senior citizen
02-02-2015, 05:37 AM
Champs again! Enough said!


http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/02/02/pats/RP2vhxQY25ctecKH9DcnOM/story.html

(Scroll to below "photo gap empty space" for full story from the Boston Globe Newspaper)

Patriots rally to beat Seahawks in Super Bowl - Sports

Return to glory for the Pats

Brady rallies Patriots to 28-24 Super Bowl win over Seahawks

Two great teams, but.......

Boston is our "big city".

Everyone up here roots for the Boston Patriots plus the Boston Red Sox.

dbussone
02-02-2015, 08:50 AM
Champs again! Enough said!


And well said.

redwitch
02-02-2015, 08:55 AM
I still hate the Pats but congrats on their victory. They fought hard to win.

l2ridehd
02-02-2015, 09:00 AM
The better team won. For those who think Brady didn't answer the mail in the interview with Bob Costa (sp), what they don't understand is that sometime between his "absolutely not" and the "lets wait and see what the investigation finds" statements, the lawyers got to him and told him what to say. Those all were lawyer coached answers. And I am sure it caused him a lot of grief to have to answer that way. And for a public broadcaster to state to Bob "after seeing that I have doubts" makes me realize just how stupid he is.

All his answers were lawyer coached and anyone who has every asked questions of and got answers from a lawyer should recognize that.

The better team won. Mistake on both sides, but in the end Bill and Tom put all the doubters in place. Tom Brady by every measure and statistic is now the undisputed best quarterback to every play the game. YEAH PATRIOTS.

Bay Kid
02-02-2015, 09:11 AM
Great game!

The Great Fumar
02-02-2015, 09:31 AM
HOORAY !!!! ALLEGED CHEATERS WON ...........

Expert on OPHRA this morning said good bounce for Pat's
was caused by an over inflated ball.....
honest !

fumar

DonH57
02-02-2015, 09:57 AM
It was a great game played by 2 very excellent teams. The Seahawks gave it their all. It was one of the best games I have watched. Hoorah for the Patriots.

janrand
02-02-2015, 12:54 PM
After the League report, you will see that this means nothing, and the Pats are still the Super bowl champs................GO PATS........end of story.

yabbadu
02-02-2015, 12:58 PM
Game Over....Put this to bed.................

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
02-05-2015, 11:20 AM
New evidence points to the probability that the real cheaters did not make it to the Super Bowl.


Esiason On DeflateGate: Coordinated Effort By Ravens & Colts To Embarrass Tom Brady « CBS Boston (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/02/04/esiason-on-deflategate-coordinated-effort-by-ravens-colts-to-embarrass-tom-brady/)

Boomer Esiason knows a bit about football and the NFL.

Ironically enough, and contrary to the initial report, only one of the footballs was found to be two pounds per square inch under the required 12.5 PSI threshold, with the rest being “just a tick under” the limit.

People can draw their own conclusions, but the Colts were only in possession of a Patriots football one time, and that came after a D’Qwell Jackson interception of Tom Brady midway through the second quarter. Is it possible the Colts may have leaked the football and handed it to the referees for investigation, while the other 11 balls naturally deflated from atmospheric conditions?

AriaGrandparents2013
02-05-2015, 11:25 AM
Destiny teams always generates jealousy amongst those that continue to lose.

dbussone
02-05-2015, 11:35 AM
Destiny teams always generates jealousy amongst those that continue to lose.

Well put!

George Bieniaszek
02-05-2015, 12:01 PM
Thought this picture was funny :)

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10013095_10153163244443474_5496517107210299593_n.j pg?oh=92b5bbde13855efef52de8b19e3bb5a8&oe=555E16FC&__gda__=1432774531_824ff045d87a699b95747bdb4147d68 b

Bosoxfan
02-05-2015, 12:57 PM
The New England Patriots, portrayed as the Super Bowl villains by the national media as a result of Deflate-gate, traded their black hat to the Seattle Seahawks at some point during Sunday night’s Super Bowl.

The good guys won, or, if you’re from Baltimore, New York, or any of the 28 other NFL cities and can’t quite admit that, just concede that the bad guys lost.

The Seahawks, or at least their most flamboyant players, have demonstrated a lack of class in victory. Richard Sherman chasing down Tom Brady to ask, “You mad, bro?” several seasons ago and gratuitously digging at Michael Crabtree after the 49ers defeat in last season’s NFC Championship Game, come to mind. So, too, does the crotch-grabbing exclamation points Marshawn Lynch affixes to his touchdown runs. At the Super Bowl, the lack of class previously shown in victory by the Seahawks reared its head in defeat.

Sore loserdom represents the flipside of taunting.

This displayed itself in its most ugly fashion in the few seconds of the game in which everybody knew the outcome. Seattle came in full-force in response to New England’s victory formation in the Super Bowl’s waning seconds. Bruce Irvin came in swinging. He landed a punch on Rob Gronkowski. Where should have been extended hands, the linebacker extended his fists. A melee ensued that threatened to mar what had played as perhaps the greatest Super Bowl in history. The referees ejected Irvin, who, once his understandable frustrations dissipated, humbly apologized.

Earlier in the second half, after Doug Baldwin caught a Russell Wilson touchdown pass, the Seahawks receiver mimed a vulgar act on the sports world’s largest stage. Instead of handing the ball to the referee or maybe issuing a celebratory spike, Baldwin pulled down imaginary trousers and squatted over the brown object beneath his legs. Further advertising his bad manners, he subsequently feigned neither wiping nor washing his hands.

Moments after Baldwin’s immaturity overshadowed the most important play of his career, Richard Sherman clowned for NBC’s cameras. He mocked Darrelle Revis, a shutdown cornerback Sherman often finds himself compared to, for muffing the coverage on the previous play. Sherman finger-flashed Revis’s number “24” as he mouthed the words and then made the touchdown hand signal.

One can envision Bill Belichick’s charges surreptitiously letting the air out of footballs or even murdering people on their off days. One can’t imagine any of them pulling a stunt like Baldwin’s or completely losing composure after a heartbreaking loss.

This, in a nutshell, stands as the reason New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft fired Pete Carroll and hired Bill Belichick 15 years ago. The former coach allows his team to blare rap music during practice and proudly celebrates the individuality of his players. The latter, who blares crowd noise during practice but little else, comes from the no-I-in-team school. Just ask Terry Glenn. Or Wes Welker. Or dozens of other guys. It’s the unlikable, no-nonsense hooded authoritarian who produces likeable players and the laid-back likeable, do-your-own-thing dude who unleashes hoodlums onto the gridiron.

Sure, Russell Wilson and Russell Okung appear about as classy as any in the NFL. But they came to the Seahawks that way. The power of Bill Belichick lies in taking troubled cases (Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, LeGarrette Blount, etc.) and transforming them into choir boys, at least on the field.

When NFL Network interviewers pressed one such choir boy, albeit of a cutthroat variety, on his place in the annals of NFL quarterbacks, the four-time Super Bowl-winner responded, “I’m a lucky guy. I’ve played on some great teams.” When Deion Sanders praised the classic game as a Tom Brady moment, the quarterback refused to take the ego bait. “There are a lot of guys who had moments tonight,” he noted. “It took every single guy.”

It wasn’t about “me, me, me.” With the New England Patriots, it never is.

l2ridehd
02-05-2015, 06:34 PM
Great post. Accurate and to the point. The critics will continue to bash the Patriots because they can't stand success.

redwitch
02-05-2015, 06:43 PM
Great post. Accurate and to the point. The critics will continue to bash the Patriots because they can't stand success.

Maybe I missed something but I don't remember these kind of comments when the Dolphins and the Niners were the dynasties to beat. So, is it a matter of success or something about the Pats?

PennBF
02-05-2015, 06:49 PM
We can identify that they cheated and how but we can't help you understand!:read:

dbussone
02-05-2015, 07:46 PM
We can identify that they cheated and how but we can't help you understand!:read:

I'm guessing this guy is really Villages PL using another identity. Very similar style and approach.

DonH57
02-05-2015, 08:16 PM
We can identify that they cheated and how but we can't help you understand!:read:

Who is we and what is there to understand? The latest I've read on "deflate gate" is the investigation now points to the colts for giving possible false information all stemming from morons at ESPN who helped this joke of a story. I hope someone there gets handed a pink slip. Please tell us all you have the damning evidence against the Patriots. Have a great day.:ho:

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
02-05-2015, 09:01 PM
We can identify that they cheated and how but we can't help you understand!:read:

Really? You can identify that they cheated? Did you read the Esiason article? Do you realize that the only ball that was down by 2 PSI was the only ball that the Colts handled?

The other balls were either legal or very, very close to legal. Only one ball was found to be 2 PSI under. D'Qwell Jackson said that he didn't notice that the ball was soft when he made the interception. He gave it to the Colts' equipment manager because he had intercepted Tom Brady and he wanted to keep it as a souvenir.

Tom Brady embarrassed Jim Harbaugh the week before. Pagano and Harbaugh are very close. Harbaugh was the one who told Pagano to look out for under inflated balls. This information all comes from a Hall of Fame quarterback who is now an announcer and a man who knows what goes on in the NFL.

And with all of this new information, you refuse to believe that The Patriots may not have cheated.

You somehow are convinced that The Patriots cheated. You state that you know they cheated with much less evidence than Esiason presented.

I can show you all of the evidence in the world and you will never change your viewpoint regardless of the evidence.

PennBF
02-06-2015, 09:08 AM
Come on lets kind of restrain the emotions. This is not the end of the world or as serious as a terrible disease. It is a football game that in the end has little to do with quality of life. IT IS JUST A GAME. In the end I could care less if they did or did not cheat. It is interesting to speculate but in the end really "who cares". We have seen people pass away from illness or injured and had serious injuries. That is what really counts in life. Not some game that is for entertainment. I am honestly amazed that so many take the cheating/no cheating so serious. It would be more worthwhile to devote that eneregy to a friend or relative who is ill and needs help and support. What a much better way to expend the emotion and energy.:ho:

Dr Winston O Boogie jr
02-06-2015, 02:08 PM
Yup. Makes perfect sense. You have no answer so change the subject.

I agree. There are many things in life more serious and important than a football game. But many of us derive a great deal of joy in life from watching and rooting for our home town teams. Many of us take it personally when our team is called cheaters. And many of us really don't like it when people make absolute statements about anything when enough evidence has not been presented.

So I posted some new information that could possibly exonerate the Patriots and implicate another team and you came back with, "We can identify that they cheated and how".

We cannot identify that The Patriots cheated. We don't have enough facts to draw any conclusions.


And your asking us to restrain our emotions? That's the last thing that you want. You have made several provocative statements designed to get people's emotions up. If it's not that important to you and you don't care who cheated and you are above all of this, why would you even bother to post in a thread like this?