Immigration or _ _ ? _ _.

[billethkid]

I have hopes this subject can be discussed without spiraling into a political contest. What is happening in the USA today with immigration, illegals, lack of enforcement of immigration laws is a very serious fast growing problem and threat to our freedoms and way of life.

I just wish the media and those who represent us in Washington would speak openly about the problem. I submit this clip by Bobby Jindal that I think states the problem very concisely. Try to be attentive to the message and not what party the speaker is or is not. Listen to what he says about the subject:

Jindal Warns of Islamic 'Colonization,' 'Invasion' of US - Breitbart (http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/01/27/jindal-warns-of-sharia-islamic-colonization-invasion-of-us/)

Folks may have an opinion that disagrees with what is presented and that is fine. Have your opinion. State it. But do not attempt to denegrate what others opinions are.

I for one agree with the presentation and have sent it to my friends and family because I believe it is well stated and for a refreshing change, in an open forum!!!

It is OK to agree to disagree without sniping or mud slinging.

We'll see!

[Sandtrap328]

Well, he is right in some ways. We just have to look back into the history of our own country to see how it works.

The Pilgrims came to the New World to set up a society with their own culture and values and this was to the detriment of the Indians. The Jamestown settlers did the same thing in Virginia, William Penn and his followers, the push westward was called Manifest Destiny, and the Amercan Indians were always on the defensive against the settlers.

Most large cities have areas called something like Chinatown, Little Italy, Little Havana, or similar. The native languages are spoken there as widely as English and some do not understand English. Yes, American law is practiced there.

Jindal is right about colonization. We have seen it firsthand in the history of the USA.

[Chi-Town]

Keep it not political. Hard to do when not even 10 seconds into the interview Jindal talks about offending liberals. And it goes on from there. However, I did like the Viking riverboat cruise ad at the beginning.

[Tennisnut]

Well, he is right in some ways. We just have to look back into the history of our own country to see how it works.

The Pilgrims came to the New World to set up a society with their own culture and values and this was to the detriment of the Indians. The Jamestown settlers did the same thing in Virginia, William Penn and his followers, the push westward was called Manifest Destiny, and the Amercan Indians were always on the defensive against the settlers.

Most large cities have areas called something like Chinatown, Little Italy, Little Havana, or similar. The native languages are spoken there as widely as English and some do not understand English. Yes, American law is practiced there.

Jindal is right about colonization. We have seen it firsthand in the history of the USA.

Well said! History continues to repeat itself.

[billethkid]

Keep it not political. Hard to do when not even 10 seconds into the interview Jindal talks about offending liberals. And it goes on from there. However, I did like the Viking riverboat cruise ad at the beginning.

hence my initial comments to look past the political and listen to the message!!!!

[Topspinmo]

We have established laws now and it's Not 1700's. Difference in legal and illegal. Federal government not enforcing laws, the political agenda CAN NOT be over looked.

[Sandtrap328]

As stated earlier, most metropolitan areas have communties of certain ethnic groups such as Chinatown, Little Italy, Little Havana, Little Somalia, etc. These communities usually have more people speaking their native languages than English and have their own customs celebrated. This has been going on for years and years. They are not "colonies" but rather communities. What problem, if any, is seen with these?

[Tennisnut]

As stated earlier, most metropolitan areas have communties of certain ethnic groups such as Chinatown, Little Italy, Little Havana, Little Somalia, etc. These communities usually have more people speaking their native languages than English and have their own customs celebrated. This has been going on for years and years. They are not "colonies" but rather communities. What problem, if any, is seen with these?

None! They usually have some great little restaurants!

[tomwed]

I was listening to NPR a week or so ago and the topic was assimilation. I can't find the show. The expert I believe was an anthropology professor.

What I took away from the show was that European countries do not assimilate well. There are three generations of Muslims who haven't held a job and this is the same in other European countries. The people see themselves in a hopeless situation where they will never be accepted.

He said America it is different for Muslim immigrants not from Europe. Immigrants that are older will do the best they can but they hope for their children. There is the hope of college or working in the family business and pooling resources.

Assimilation works in America and some of us have our own family stories.

He said what Americans should be far more afraid of is the Muslims that come from Europe.

If anyone else heard that show, and can find it, please post a link. I want to make sure I remember it correctly.

[sunnyatlast]

As stated earlier, most metropolitan areas have communties of certain ethnic groups such as Chinatown, Little Italy, Little Havana, Little Somalia, etc. These communities usually have more people speaking their native languages than English and have their own customs celebrated. This has been going on for years and years. They are not "colonies" but rather communities. What problem, if any, is seen with these?

I think y'all are overlooking the difference between

a) forming a community having one predominant cultural group, with the community firmly committed to obedience and jurisdiction of federal and state law like Chinatown, Little Italy or Little Havana…..and

b) "to infiltrate with usually subversive militants for propaganda and strategy reasons <colonize industries>" (See dictionary definition containing this, below.)

The b) definition applies to "colonizers" like Islamic terrorist groups who are hellbent on imposing Sharia Law here. THAT is what Jindal is talking about.

Please consider with mind open:

col·o·nize verb \ˈkä-lə-ˌnīz\
: to create a colony in or on (a place) : to take control of (an area) and send people to live there

Full Definition of COLONIZE

transitive verb
1
a : to establish a colony in or on or of <colonize an island>
b : to establish in a colony <the rights of colonized people>
2
: to send illegal or irregularly qualified voters into <colonizing doubtful districts>
3
: to infiltrate with usually subversive militants for propaganda and strategy reasons <colonize industries>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/colonize

.

[l2ridehd]

As stated earlier, most metropolitan areas have communties of certain ethnic groups such as Chinatown, Little Italy, Little Havana, Little Somalia, etc. These communities usually have more people speaking their native languages than English and have their own customs celebrated. This has been going on for years and years. They are not "colonies" but rather communities. What problem, if any, is seen with these?

None. Those folks came to this country legally by following our laws, learning our language, servicing in our military, and working and paying taxes. Yes, many still speak their native language, but 99% can also speak English, our native language.

The current group has come here illegally, breaking our laws, refusing to learn our language, committing crimes against our legal citizens, abusing our health care and welfare system, and not paying any taxes.

Those are the problems I see with the current illegal immigrants.

As for the link, those specific immigrants are trying to impose their laws on us, not following the laws we already have. And so yes I have a problem with that as well.

[Sandtrap328]

None. Those folks came to this country legally by following our laws, learning our language, servicing in our military, and working and paying taxes. Yes, many still speak their native language, but 99% can also speak English, our native language.

The current group has come here illegally, breaking our laws, refusing to learn our language, committing crimes against our legal citizens, abusing our health care and welfare system, and not paying any taxes.

Those are the problems I see with the current illegal immigrants.

As for the link, those specific immigrants are trying to impose their laws on us, not following the laws we already have. And so yes I have a problem with that as well.

Well, the OP as talking about Islamics "colonization" of America and not illegal immigration. I don't see them imposing their laws on us. Specifically, where have you seen this happen?

As for illegal Hispanic immigration, IF they are on company payrolls under false identity papers, they ARE paying into Social Security and will not get anything out of it. IF they are being paid under the table, it is their employers who are breaking the law.

It is a myth that illegals get free health insurance.

[Topspinmo]

O yes, let's blame everybody but the illegal. If they stole someone's identity that's felony even if that person dead and buried. Again the problem fed gov don't enforce immigration laws. THIS INCLUDES going after employer's. I don't believe the myth is myth.

We need to mimic Mexico immigration laws. Charge them on there way to Canada. After all they are top of the world on human rights and immigration.

[Barefoot]

We need to mimic Mexico immigration laws. Charge them on there way to Canada. After all they are top of the world on human rights and immigration.

:confused:

[KeepingItReal]

It is still illegal to hire an illegal?

Penalties for Employers Hiring Illegal Immigrants | LegalMatch Law Library (http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/penalties-for-employers-hiring-illegal-immigrants.html)

Penalties for Employers Hiring Illegal Immigrants
Authored by Ken LaMance, LegalMatch Law Library Managing Editor and Attorney at Law

What Counts as “Hiring An Illegal Immigrant”?
Under federal law, it is illegal for any employer to hire, recruit or refer for a fee any alien not authorized to work in the United States. This includes hiring contractors who employ illegal immigrants. There are criminal and civil penalties associated with this conduct.

It is also illegal for any employer not to verify work authorization. An employer who does not correctly complete an I-9 for each employee three days after the employee is hired is also subject to criminal and civil punishment.

What Are the Penalties For Hiring An Illegal Immigrant?
For first offenders, there is a $250-$2,000 fine per illegal employee.

For a second offense, the fine is $2,000-$5,000 per illegal employee.

For employers who have been convicted of hiring illegal immigrants more than twice, the fine can range from $3000-$10,000 per employee. If the employer demonstrates a pervasive pattern of knowingly employing illegal immigrants, he or she could face additional fines, and up to six months in jail.

This does not include “harboring” illegal immigrants, or knowingly employing ten or more illegal immigrants in one year. Harboring an illegal immigrant can lead to ten years of prison time.

Additionally, under the Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organizations (RICO) act, employers hiring illegal immigrants have been sued, resulting in large settlements. The lawfully documented workers of the Zirkle Fruit Company recently settled a class action lawsuit brought under RICO. The suit alleged that their employer knowingly hired undocumented workers, driving down their wages.

What If the Illegal Immigrant Is Using a False or Stolen Identity?
Illegal immigrants who seek employment often engage in identity theft in order to work in the United States. Employers are required to make a good faith effort to make sure that their employees are legally permitted to work in the country. This good faith effort includes using the Social Security Administration’s website to check if a social security number matches the employee who gave the number.

[Sandtrap328]

Google "Postville, Iowa" and read all about how a town was turned around after illegal immigrants were recruited for a Kosher packing plant - and what happened after they left.

Be careful when you ask for something - you do not know what might happen!

[MikeV]

:boom:Just reading the short number of responses in this thread is going to make my head explode so I am opting out of it.

[sunnyatlast]

Until you have worked directly with illegal workers and their childbearing wives and children, and speak and understand the language fluently, you really don't know how potent and real this central factor is in overloading public education funding, Medicaid funding, Social Security solvency, and Disability Medicare and SSI solvency, etc.

The children born in the United States to illegal alien mothers are often referred to as "anchor babies."

Under current practice, these children are U.S. citizens at birth, simply because they were born on U.S. soil. They are called anchor babies because, as U.S. citizens, they become eligible to sponsor for legal immigration most of their relatives, including their illegal alien mothers, when they turn 21 years of age, thus becoming the U.S. "anchor" for an extended immigrant family...."

Many unknowing people here are not looking at the societal costs of only one illegal adult working for low wages in a household of 3 to 12+ relatives who are either too young, too old, and too lacking in English language proficiency to work and earn and pay into FICA and all other income taxes.

Many are also turning a blind eye to the shrinking number of working taxpayers paying into Social Security and Medicare, as the number of recipients is growing exponentially. See:

http://pgpf.org/Chart-Archive/0004_worker-benefit-ratio

https://www.numbersusa.com/content/learn/baby-chaining/anchor-babies.html

.

[billethkid]

Illegal is illegal until such time as the laws are changed to reflect other wise.

Which is not likely to happen due to the very nature of the subject.

Hence it will be much easier to just continue what the USA has been doing to accomodate the illegal movement.......NO ENFORCEMENT of existing laws.

And yes this subject can be discussed without falling prey to those who insist on making it political.

And most of us are not at odds with the good that comes from the use and participation of illegals. We are at odds with the rampant lack of enforcement allowing the bad and the ugly to take advantage of the USA. Always shining the light on a good story does not make the wrong that is under way any more acceptable.

[LndLocked]

Illegal is illegal until such time as the laws are changed to reflect other wise.

Which is not likely to happen due to the very nature of the subject.

Hence it will be much easier to just continue what the USA has been doing to accomodate the illegal movement.......NO ENFORCEMENT of existing laws.

And yes this subject can be discussed without falling prey to those who insist on making it political.

And most of us are not at odds with the good that comes from the use and participation of illegals. We are at odds with the rampant lack of enforcement allowing the bad and the ugly to take advantage of the USA. Always shining the light on a good story does not make the wrong that is under way any more acceptable.

Then perhaps you would like to post non partisan, hard statistical data to substantiate this claim. Otherwise it is simply an opinion and subject to speculation as to it's origin.

[Rags123]

Then perhaps you would like to post non partisan, hard statistical data to substantiate this claim. Otherwise it is simply an opinion and subject to speculation as to it's origin.

"Officials overseeing a federal program that offers an immigration short-cut to wealthy foreign investors have ignored pointed warnings from federal agents and approved visas for some immigrants suspected of having committed fraud, money laundering, and even one applicant with alleged ties to a child porn website, an ABC News investigation has found. The shortcomings prompted concerns within the Department of Homeland Security that the boutique immigration program would be exploited by terrorists, according to internal documents obtained by ABC News."

Whistleblowers: US Gave Visas to Suspected Forgers, Fraudsters, Criminals - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/whistleblowers-us-gave-visas-suspected-forgers-fraudsters-criminals/story?id=28671577)

"More than 1,000 illegal immigrants released under federal “prosecutorial discretion” went on to commit a string of new crimes across the United States, according to Department of Homeland Security records. And that was in just one year.

The 38-page DHS report lists the new convictions for fiscal 2013, the latest year for which statistics were available. They include:

Assault with a deadly weapon
Terroristic threats
Failure to register as a sex offender
Lewd acts with a child under 14
Aggravated assault
Robbery
Hit-and-run
Criminal street gang
Rape spouse by force
Child cruelty: possible injury/death
“The Obama administration claims it is using ‘prosecutorial discretion’ to prioritize the removal of criminal aliens from this country. But this report shows the disturbing truth: 1,000 undocumented aliens previously convicted of crimes, and released by the administration in 2013, have gone on to commit further crimes in our communities,” said Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa."

Migrants committing more crimes at Obama (http://watchdog.org/197083/migrant-crime-obama/)

"This report details how the Obama Administration has carried out a policy of de facto amnesty for millions of illegal aliens through executive policy decisions. Since taking office in 2009, the Obama Administration has systematically gutted effective immigration enforcement policies, moved aggressively against state and local governments that attempt to enforce immigration laws, and stretched the concept of "prosecutorial discretion" to a point where it has rendered many immigration laws meaningless. Remarkably, the Administration has succeeded in doing all this with barely a peep of protest from Congress."

http://www.fairus.org/DocServer/Obama_Enforcement_Report.pdf

"The Obama Administration's strategy is to count on the fact that the public and the media will not take notice of each individual and incremental step they are taking to undermine immigration enforcement and grant de facto amnesty to as many illegal aliens as possible. This report exposes the strategy and the policy objectives behind it."

President Obama (http://www.fairus.org/publications/president-obama-s-record-of-dismantling-immigration-enforcement)

"The Administration's conscious effort to end policies that effectively enforce and deter illegal immigration. This includes the cessation of meaningful worksite enforcement against employers who hire illegal aliens and the removal of the illegal workers. It also includes ending effective partnership programs with state and local governments, such as the 287(g) program, that provide a structure through which state and local agencies may enforce immigration laws.

"Amnesty advocates argue that our immigration system is broken and can only be fixed by legalizing millions of illegal immigrants. But they ignore the real problem plaguing our system today: lack of enforcement of laws already on the books.

Immigration enforcement key to success: Column (http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2013/03/04/lamar-smith-on-immigration-enforcement/1960287/)

(EXAMPLES IN LINK)

[l2ridehd]

Then perhaps you would like to post non partisan, hard statistical data to substantiate this claim. Otherwise it is simply an opinion and subject to speculation as to it's origin.

I guess I am not sure how you can't believe what was stated. I would ask the reverse and ask you to show where enforcement has happened? Arizona did try, very well documented, and was forced by the federal government to stop enforcing the law.

I will provide you with a personally observed failure.

I was building a data center for a Federal agency. Every contractor hired had a clause in their contract that ALL employees had to be US citizens or have valid green card status. We were on site checking work progress one day. There were 137 workers on site that day.

The local police pulled in to introduce themselves to us. Two police cars, no lights, no sirens, just drove in the entrance and stopped. Did not even approach the building, just the construction trailer. There were 64 workers who actually fled the property leaving just 73 remaining. Almost 50%. Needless to say nothing was done. The cops just laughed about it. The only outcome was we had to put a process in place to validate every worker entering the site every day. The contractor was fired, but appealed and was returned to the job by the federal agency we were building this center for. And you don't even want to know which federal agency this was. I was ashamed of our government.