AK-47's

[Sandtrap328]

After I read an article in today's Daily Sun about an 18 year old boy accidently shooting a friend with an AK-47 (pointed the gun at the friend and pulled the trigger), I Googled to see if owning an AK-47 was legal in Florida.

It is legal to own a semi-automatic AK-47 if you are at least 18 years old.

Amazing, but llegal.

[graciegirl]

After I read an article in today's Daily Sun about an 18 year old boy accidently shooting a friend with an AK-47 (pointed the gun at the friend and pulled the trigger), I Googled to see if owning an AK-47 was legal in Florida.

It is legal to own a semi-automatic AK-47 if you are at least 18 years old.

Amazing, but llegal.

What do you see as the answer? If they ban guns, then only the bad guys will have them. I don't have a gun but I might change my mind.

[dbussone]

After I read an article in today's Daily Sun about an 18 year old boy accidently shooting a friend with an AK-47 (pointed the gun at the friend and pulled the trigger), I Googled to see if owning an AK-47 was legal in Florida.

It is legal to own a semi-automatic AK-47 if you are at least 18 years old.

Amazing, but llegal.

There are many variations of the so called AK-47. Most people think of the menacing picture of a carbine with a curved ammunition magazine. There are variants made in many countries.

I have seen SKS versions that you could hardly distinguish from a hunting rifle, and in fact have seen one used for deer hunting.

The problem is not the weapon. The problem is the idiot who pointed it at another person and pulled the trigger.

We lived in Mississippi when our son was a sophomore in high school. He was REQUIRED to take a gun safety and hunting safety course by his school because of the number of kids who went hunting with their dads. He is now approaching 40 and is completely comfortable and safe with guns.

[Bogie Shooter]

What do you see as the answer? If they ban guns, then only the bad guys will have them. I don't have a gun but I might change my mind.

Now where did you hear that?

[graciegirl]

Now where did you hear that?


I am trying to think where I first heard it. My husband who does not have a gun says it.

You know I admire you Bogie Shooter and your straightforward attitude but I would like to take the opportunity to point out that I watch all three of the big news stations and I speak frequently to our granddaughter who is an executive producer of local evening news in a not small American city.

AND...

I am told I am not as dumb as I look, Bogie.

[Sandtrap328]

What do you see as the answer? If they ban guns, then only the bad guys will have them. I don't have a gun but I might change my mind.

No where did I mention or suggest banning guns. If someone wants to legally own or legally carry, it is their right to do so.

What is the answer? Have the "smarts" not to point guns at friends, not to have unsecured guns around children, not to have a gun by your bed where you may hear a noise at night and accidentally shoot a family member, or not to take gun safety and shooting classes from a reputable instructor before geting a gun.

[graciegirl]

No where did I mention or suggest banning guns. If someone wants to legally own or legally carry, it is their right to do so.

What is the answer? Have the "smarts" not to point guns at friends, not to have unsecured guns around children, not to have a gun by your bed where you may hear a noise at night and accidentally shoot a family member, or not to take gun safety and shooting classes from a reputable instructor before geting a gun.


Well I see nothing to argue about here. You are right. I don't want a gun. I am depending on my neighbors to protect me. I would guess that well over half have guns here. What is your guess?

[Walter123]

Oh boy, here we go.

A can of wasp spray or the remote for your car with a panic button are better to keep by your bed than a gun. A billy club in a good idea for after the wasp spray. I said this before and I'll say it again. You are most vulnerable in your bedroom so fortify your bedroom door.

Do we really need to worry here, no but it doesn't hurt to be prepared.

[dbussone]

Well I see nothing to argue about here. You are right. I don't want a gun. I am depending on my neighbors to protect me. I would guess that well over half have guns here. What is your guess?

I believe your estimate is low. And hope your neighbors will take care of you. I would!

[Bogie Shooter]

I am trying to think where I first heard it. My husband who does not have a gun says it.

You know I admire you Bogie Shooter and your straightforward attitude but I would like to take the opportunity to point out that I watch all three of the big news stations and I speak frequently to our granddaughter who is an executive producer of local evening news in a not small American city.

AND...

I am told I am not as dumb as I look, Bogie.

Whoa.........
I said nothing about what news stations you watch.
I did not say you were dumb.
Why the attack?

[graciegirl]

Whoa.........
I said nothing about what news stations you watch.
I did not say you were dumb.
Why the attack?


Sorry. I thought I was in political.

[fred53]

"It is legal to own a semi-automatic AK-47 if you are at least 18 years old.

Amazing, but llegal."

I don't find it amazing that a person who can use and automatic weapon serving in the armed forces at age 17(w/parents permission)can buy a semi-auto anything...what's amazing is how many stupid people are still around...

[redwitch]

Owning a gun is one thing. Owning a sem-automatic that can easily be converted to fully automatic is another. I really don't understand why these weapons are not banned, except for our police officers and military. Ditto the dum-dum bullets and their ilk. Yes, some criminals will have these weapons but there is no logic in my mind that wants these type of weapons in the hands of whomever wants them. I also firmly believe that anyone who owns a handgun, rifle or shotgun should take a comprehensive course in gun safety, be required to practice at a range at least every three months and take a refresher safety course every year.

[dbussone]

"It is legal to own a semi-automatic AK-47 if you are at least 18 years old.

Amazing, but llegal."

I don't find it amazing that a person who can use and automatic weapon serving in the armed forces at age 17(w/parents permission)can buy a semi-auto anything...what's amazing is how many stupid people are still around...

Quite often they are their own worst enemies, and remove themselves from the gene pool. Darwin strikes again.

[Cathy H]

lets remember that all guns are banned in Great Britain and even policemen do not carry. Permits for hunting are hard to obtain. So the notion put forth that only bad guys or gals with have them when guns are banned is not proven. but I am resigned to know that this not-so-great country will never ban guns

[Pointer]

Given the amount of guns out there, it's a good idea for all children to take the gun safety course. That way, should they come into contact with one, they won't be so curious and will know how to be more responsible.

[dbussone]

lets remember that all guns are banned in Great Britain and even policemen do not carry. Permits for hunting are hard to obtain. So the notion put forth that only bad guys or gals with have them when guns are banned is not proven. but I am resigned to know that this not-so-great country will never ban guns

I don't know why you believe we aren't so great a country, and I really don't care to know the reason. Perhaps you are from another country originally. The United States is not just a great country, it is an exceptional country. The second amendment, in my opinion, is one of those things that has been a factor in differentiating our country from run of the mill dictatorships, kingdoms, and failed social experiments.

Perhaps you've forgotten that every household in Switzerland has a weapon provided by the government. Your bobbies are becoming more armed every day, even including automatic weapons, to deal with the mess they now have on their hands.

If you are really ashamed of this country I don't know what to say. We are a free country, though, and you have choices.

[Sandtrap328]

[QUOTE=dbussone;1007090]

Perhaps you've forgotten that every household in Switzerland has a weapon provided by the government. /QUOTE]

Not really true. Swiss men are issued a weapon when they enter military service and the rifle is kept at their house. After completion in the military, they have the option of keeping or turning in the rifle.

Approximately 45 percent of Swiss homes have weapons. It is quite difficult to get a carry permit there.

Google it for the full story.

[dbussone]

If all Swiss men are conscripted into the army, then every household has, or has had a weapon. Even at a retention rate of 45% they represent a formidable force. I don't believe everything I see or read on the Internet, even if Google says it. thank you for the correction.

[Chi-Town]

How many of the Swiss have an army knife?

[dillywho]

After I read an article in today's Daily Sun about an 18 year old boy accidently shooting a friend with an AK-47 (pointed the gun at the friend and pulled the trigger), I Googled to see if owning an AK-47 was legal in Florida.

It is legal to own a semi-automatic AK-47 if you are at least 18 years old.

Amazing, but llegal.

It may be legal and that's ok with me. That being said, I don't care what gun it is: AK-47 or derringer, NEVER point it at anyone....period. That is the first rule that everyone should know even if they do not own a gun themselves or may be just looking at one while it is in their hands.

We both had concealed carry permits through Texas when we traveled a lot, and my dad taught me about guns when I was a kid. He was not a hunter, but did have a couple of guns.

[tomwed]

After seeing the following statistic my guess is that 60% of the households in the villages have a gun. And now I'd like to take this opportunity to apologise to anyone I may have ever offended.

This is from wikipedia.
List of countries by number of guns per capita[edit]

Country Guns per 100



Rank
(2014) Notes

country guns per hundred rank
United States 90.0 1
Serbia 58.2 2
Yemen 54.8 3
Switzerland 45.7 4
Cyprus 36.1 5
Saudi Arabia 35 6
Iraq 34.2 7
Uruguay 31.8 8
Sweden 31.6 9
Norway 31.3 10
France 31.2 11
Canada 30.8 12
Austria 30.4 13
Germany 30.3 14
Iceland 30.3 15
Finland 29.1 16 34.2[6][7]
Oman 25.5 17
Bahrain 24.8 18
Kuwait 24.8 18
Republic of Macedonia 24.1 20
Montenegro 23.1 21
New Zealand 22.6 22 Small firearms not permitted to general public. 26.8[2]
Greece 22.5 23
United Arab Emirates 22.1 24
Northern Ireland 21.9 25
Croatia 21.7 26
Panama 21.7 26
Lebanon 21 28
Equatorial Guinea 19.9 29
Qatar 19.2 31
Latvia 19 32
Peru 18.8 33
Angola 17.3 34
Bosnia and Herzegovina 17.3 34
Belgium 17.2 36
Paraguay 17 37
Czech Republic 16.3 38
Thailand 15.6 39
Libya 15.5 40
Luxembourg 15.3 41
Australia 15 42
Mexico 15 42
Mauritius 14.7 44
Guyana 14.6 45
Gabon 14 46
Slovenia 13.5 47
Suriname 13.4 48
Guatemala 13.1 49
South Africa 12.7 50
Namibia 12.6 51
Armenia 12.5 52
Turkey 12.5 52
Denmark 12 54
Italy 11.9 55
Malta 11.9 55
Pakistan 11.6 57
Jordan 11.5 58
Chile 10.7 59
Venezuela 10.7 59
Spain 10.4 61
Argentina 10.2 62
Belize 10 63
Costa Rica 9.9 64
Estonia 9.2 65
Somalia 9.1 66
Transnistria 9.1 66
Russia 8.9 68
Zambia 8.9 68
Albania 8.6 70
Ireland 8.6 70
Portugal 8.5 72
Slovakia 8.3 73
Jamaica 8.1 74
Brazil 8 75
Barbados 7.8 76
Nicaragua 7.7 77
Algeria 7.6 78
Belarus 7.3 79
Georgia 7.3 79
Iran 7.3 79
Israel 7.3 79
Moldova 7.1 83
Ukraine 6.6 84
Maldives 6.5 85
Kenya 6.4 86
Swaziland 6.4 86
Bulgaria 6.2 88
EnglandWales England and Wales 6.2 88
Honduras 6.2 88
Colombia 5.9 91
El Salvador 5.8 92
Hungary 5.5 93
Scotland 5.5 93
Sudan 5.5 93 Includes South Sudan
Cape Verde 5.4 96
Seychelles 5.4 96
Bahamas 5.3 98
Dominican Republic 5.1 99
Mozambique 5.1 99
Morocco 5 101
Botswana 4.9 102
China 4.9 102
Cuba 4.8 104
Philippines 4.7 105
Afghanistan 4.6 106
Taiwan 4.6 106
Zimbabwe 4.6 106
Cambodia 4.3 109
India 4.2 110
Burma 4 111
Netherlands 3.9 112
Syria 3.9 112
Turkmenistan 3.8 114
Azerbaijan 3.5 115
Egypt 3.5 115
Bhutan 3.5 115
Palestine 3.4 118
Bolivia 2.8 119
Cameroon 2.8 119
Djibouti 2.8 119
Congo 2.7 122
Lesotho 2.7 122
Ivory Coast 2.4 124
Senegal 2 125
Mongolia 1.9 126
Comoros 1.8 127
Vietnam 1.7 128
Guinea-Bissau 1.6 129
Liberia 1.6 129
Mauritania 1.6 129
Trinidad and Tobago 1.6 129
Malaysia 1.5 133
Nigeria 1.5 133
Sri Lanka 1.5 133
Uzbekistan 1.5 133
Benin 1.4 137
Brunei 1.4 137
Democratic Republic of the Congo 1.4 137
Tanzania 1.4 137
Uganda 1.4 137
Ecuador 1.3 142
Kazakhstan 1.3 142
Poland 1.3 142
Burundi 1.2 145
Laos 1.2 145
Guinea 1.2 145
Papua New Guinea 1.2 145
Burkina Faso 1.1 149
Chad 1.1 149
South Korea 1.1 149
Mali 1.1 149
Central African Republic 1 153
Tajikistan 1 153
Togo 1 153
Kyrgyzstan .9 156
Gambia .8 157
Madagascar .8 157
Nepal .8 157
Lithuania .7 160
Malawi .7 160
***** .7 160
Romania .7 160
Haiti .6 164
Japan .6 164
North Korea .6 164
Rwanda .6 164
Sierra Leone .6 164
Bangladesh .5 169
Eritrea .5 169
Fiji .5 169
Indonesia .5 169
Singapore .5 169
Ethiopia .4 174
Ghana .4 174
Solomon Islands .4 174
Timor-Leste .3 177
Tunisia .1 178

[billethkid]

lets remember that all guns are banned in Great Britain and even policemen do not carry. Permits for hunting are hard to obtain. So the notion put forth that only bad guys or gals with have them when guns are banned is not proven. but I am resigned to know that this not-so-great country will never ban guns

Hey Cathy H.....how about enlightening us why you make such a statement.....you certainly must know that you were waving a red flag in the face of the rest of us who think you are abso:censored:lutely wrong!

[dbussone]

Tomwed - you are forgiven. Just don't do it again.

[Walter123]

How many of the Swiss have an army knife?

Good one!:clap2:

[graciegirl]

I thought that Sandtrap once again brought up the issue of guns. That is what I thought and that we were discussing guns.

I will say again, that never in my life until I moved here did I know anyone who had guns who didn't hunt. I was very troubled about this for awhile and then decided when we had that rash of break-ins a while back that I was glad my neighbors were armed and that they made it clear they were armed. Maybe the bad guys won't prey on this Senior community.

[Sandtrap328]

I thought that Sandtrap once again brought up the issue of guns. That is what I thought and that we were discussing guns.

I will say again, that never in my life until I moved here did I know anyone who had guns who didn't hunt. I was very troubled about this for awhile and then decided when we had that rash of break-ins a while back that I was glad my neighbors were armed and that they made it clear they were armed. Maybe the bad guys won't prey on this Senior community.

Absolutely right, as usual, Gracie.
However, an AK-47 is a very unwieldy weapon for home defense. Most would pick a pistol instead of a bulky weapon such like the AK-47. The AK would be more likely to be taken away by an intruder and turned on the owner than a pistol, too. (how many Wyatt Earps are going to say they would shoot first and ask questions later?)

Do not forget that if your home was robbed and the robber was running down your driveway, and you shoot him/her (equal opportunity!), you are going to be the liable person as you were not in immediate danger at that point. That will be something taught in your gun safety class.

[JRichm369]

A civilian version of an AK 47 is no more dangerous than any other rifle of similar caliber, same hold true for AR 15s. So first and foremost all firearms need to be secured, I own several guns and none of them have ever jumped out of my gun safe and fired a shot at anyone or any thing.

[Shimpy]

Oh boy, here we go.

A can of wasp spray or the remote for your car with a panic button are better to keep by your bed than a gun. A billy club in a good idea for after the wasp spray. I said this before and I'll say it again. You are most vulnerable in your bedroom so fortify your bedroom door.

Do we really need to worry here, no but it doesn't hurt to be prepared.

I pity you and your family if your only defense is a can of wasp spray, a car remote and billy club. Even Mace is shown to be ineffective against many, especially on drugs where they eyes water and disperse the spray. A car remote triggering an alarm? This is so common to hear that no one pays attention to and is worthless. By the time the police are called and arrive they can only write a report describing the crime scene. We can't rely on others to protect our home and family for us and must take it upon ourselves to learn and train how to do that. It's not hard, just got to realize that help isn't going to come in the nick of time like in the movies.

[CFrance]

Quite often they are their own worst enemies, and remove themselves from the gene pool. Darwin strikes again.
Yes, but the problem is when they remove some innocent bystander from the pool along with themselves.

[dbussone]

I agree with you. That IS a problem. A gun safety course before acquiring a gun should be required. I had to take such a course before I bought my first shotgun in MA some 40 years ago.

[CFrance]

I agree with you. That IS a problem. A gun safety course before acquiring a gun should be required. I had to take such a course before I bought my first shotgun in MA some 40 years ago.
That would be a good requirement and a step forward without endangering gun owners' rights.

[dbussone]

That would be a good requirement and a step forward without endangering gun owners' rights.

In every state I've lived in (MA, TN, MS, FL, NV, NC, GA) such a course is mandatory as part of qualifying for a concealed carry permit. However that is not necessarily the case for purchasing a gun.

[tomwed]

There are 90 guns for every 100 Americans.
How many courses would we need so everyone safely knows how to handle a gun?
There are 320 million Americans.
How many students will be in each class?
Will the courses be free?
Will the teachers be paid?
Will the students be required to read past the third grade level?
Will the classes be bi-lingual?
Will the states pick up the tab or the federal government?
Who will manage the student records?

[dbussone]

There are 90 guns for every 100 Americans.
How many courses would we need so everyone safely knows how to handle a gun?
There are 320 million Americans.
How many students will be in each class?
Will the courses be free?
Will the teachers be paid?
Will the students be required to read past the third grade level?
Will the classes be bi-lingual?
Will the states pick up the tab or the federal government?
Who will manage the student records?

Tom - my son took a class that was mandatory for all male sophomores in high school. There were probably 100 males in that sophomore class. I had to pay for his participation - and it was mandatory for him to take. He received a certificate upon completion that he has retained (and he is 39).

My solution for the bilingual issue will not be popular. "If you are here, we're an English language speaking country. Your language is great as a secondary language. Learn English or leave." That was my Italian grandmother's philosophy and it's good enough for me.

My guess would be that fewer than 50% of the population owns the majority of guns, so that decreases your educational needs significantly. As far as new sales go, make sure a new purchaser has either a concealed weapon permit or a certificate proving that a gun safety course has been taken.

[tomwed]

Tom - my son took a class that was mandatory for all male sophomores in high school. There were probably 100 males in that sophomore class. I had to pay for his participation - and it was mandatory for him to take. He received a certificate upon completion that he has retained (and he is 39).

My solution for the bilingual issue will not be popular. "If you are here, we're an English language speaking country. Your language is great as a secondary language. Learn English or leave." That was my Italian grandmother's philosophy and it's good enough for me.

My guess would be that fewer than 50% of the population owns the majority of guns, so that decreases your educational needs significantly. As far as new sales go, make sure a new purchaser has either a concealed weapon permit or a certificate proving that a gun safety course has been taken.
It's only 160 million people or less who need training minus any schools that have been training all along.
Anyone who doesn't speak English is exempt or is required to learn English before attending class and someone will be hired to enforce the rule.
All my great grandparents came through Ellis Island. By the time my grand parents came along they were assimilated too. It's very common where I came from. We lived close to Ellis Island.
I'm a retired teacher. When I started teaching we had drivers Ed and many shop, music and art classes that had to be dropped as budgets got voted down. Guess who voted them down?

[dbussone]

It's only 160 million people or less who need training minus any schools that have been training all along.
Anyone who doesn't speak English is exempt or is required to learn English before attending class and someone will be hired to enforce the rule.
All my great grandparents came through Ellis Island. By the time my grand parents came along they were assimilated too. It's very common where I came from. We lived close to Ellis Island.
I'm a retired teacher. When I started teaching we had drivers Ed and many shop, music and art classes that had to be dropped as budgets got voted down. Guess who voted them down?


If you are suggesting the NRA, please note I am an Endowment Life Member. I don't always do what it is suggested I do and I stick by my comments.

[Sandtrap328]

In every state I've lived in (MA, TN, MS, FL, NV, NC, GA) such a course is mandatory as part of qualifying for a concealed carry permit. However that is not necessarily the case for purchasing a gun.

Actually in Florida (I do not know about other states) the training, safety, and proficency tests are NOT needed by any veteran (served at any time) and has a DD214 showing an honorable discharge.

Don't forget that many of the veterans here are Vietnam Era, Korean Era, and some WWII vets. Many have not picked up a handgun since being discharged which could be over 70 years ago! All of these veterans remember all their gun safety and could pass a proficency test? Does't matter - pay for processing and fingerprinting and you got your concealed carry permit - no waiting period for buying a gun, either.

[dbussone]

Actually in Florida (I do not know about other states) the training, safety, and proficency tests are NOT needed by any veteran (served at any time) and has a DD214 showing an honorable discharge.



Don't forget that many of the veterans here are Vietnam Era, Korean Era, and some WWII vets. Many have not picked up a handgun since being discharged which could be over 70 years ago! All of these veterans remember all their gun safety and could pass a proficency test? Does't matter - pay for processing and fingerprinting and you got your concealed carry permit - no waiting period for buying a gun, either.


I would accept the training of a military veteran over civilian firearm training any day. Did you really mean what you just posted?

[Sandtrap328]

I would accept the training of a military veteran over civilian firearm training any day. Did you really mean what you just posted?

Yes. Which part are you referring? If a veteran had a Marksman medal with an M-1 in 1952, had not picked up a gun since 1955, has an Honorable Discharge, he can pay fingerprint and processing fee (around $125) and get the Concealed Carry permit.

I would rather see everyone take the gun safety course (paid for by themself) and shooting proficiency test before getting a Carry permit and gun. Perhaps the gun safety course and shooting test will be done by certified NRA instructors but would be certified under any conditions.

If I had the choice of letting the Korean War Vet (described above) or a 30 year old who just had the course and proficiency test get a permit - it would be the young person.

[tomwed]

If you are suggesting the NRA, please note I am an Endowment Life Member. I don't always do what it is suggested I do and I stick by my comments.
I'm not suggesting the NRA. I don't know the first thing about the NRA except that they have a lobby. I don't know what an Endowment Life Member is. It's none of my business.

I'm just asking who, what, when and where questions.

I think you are not seeing me as I am.
Like the Lady G I am quite comfortable with gun owners in The Villages. They have a lifetime of experiences handling weapons.

When I lived in Newark, I was a little more than worried.

[Walter123]

Absolutely right, as usual, Gracie.
However, an AK-47 is a very unwieldy weapon for home defense. Most would pick a pistol instead of a bulky weapon such like the AK-47. The AK would be more likely to be taken away by an intruder and turned on the owner than a pistol, too. (how many Wyatt Earps are going to say they would shoot first and ask questions later?)



What, whaaaaaat, I disagree. If you must have a firearm for home protection then a pistol grip pump action shotgun with an open choke is you best choice. It won't go through your wall and kill your neighbor when you miss your target like a rifle or hand gun will.

[dbussone]

I'm not suggesting the NRA. I don't know the first thing about the NRA except that they have a lobby. I don't know what an Endowment Life Member is. It's none of my business.

I'm just asking who, what, when and where questions.

I think you are not seeing me as I am.
Like the Lady G I am quite comfortable with gun owners in The Villages. They have a lifetime of experiences handling weapons.

When I lived in Newark, I was a little more than worried.

And I was worried as a visitor to Newark. I apologize.

[dbussone]

What, whaaaaaat, I disagree. If you must have a firearm for home protection then a pistol grip pump action shotgun with an open choke is you best choice. It won't go through your wall and kill your neighbor when you miss your target like a rifle or hand gun will.

Finally, someone who knows the topic. I have many current and former FBI friends. The majority use and recommend pump action shotguns for home defense. The sound of shotgun being racked is enough to scare off many would be thugs.

[outlaw]

A civilian version of an AK 47 is no more dangerous than any other rifle of similar caliber, same hold true for AR 15s. So first and foremost all firearms need to be secured, I own several guns and none of them have ever jumped out of my gun safe and fired a shot at anyone or any thing.

If you keep your firearms in a safe, I guess you don't have them for home defense.

[outlaw]

Actually in Florida (I do not know about other states) the training, safety, and proficency tests are NOT needed by any veteran (served at any time) and has a DD214 showing an honorable discharge.

Don't forget that many of the veterans here are Vietnam Era, Korean Era, and some WWII vets. Many have not picked up a handgun since being discharged which could be over 70 years ago! All of these veterans remember all their gun safety and could pass a proficency test? Does't matter - pay for processing and fingerprinting and you got your concealed carry permit - no waiting period for buying a gun, either.

AND extensive background check...

[outlaw]

If you really want to read an in-depth analysis of the 2nd Amendment, try this: guncitedotcom/journals/reycrit.html (Change "dot" to ".")

It's titled "A CRITICAL GUIDE TO THE SECOND AMENDMENT"

[billethkid]

too much arm chair anecdotal story telling here. The first hand experience/knowledge is easy to spot!

[Sandtrap328]

Finally, someone who knows the topic. I have many current and former FBI friends. The majority use and recommend pump action shotguns for home defense. The sound of shotgun being racked is enough to scare off many would be thugs.

Yes, the sound of a shotgun racking a shell is thought provoking to say the least.

I have been in The Villages 5 years and there has NOT been a home invasion that I can think of. There have been some homes burgeled when no one was home, a few sneak thieves under doubtful circumstances, and a couple of domestic shootings.

In other words, nothing that required a pump shotgun, rifle, or pistol to be used in self defense.

Remember, also, those folks who have the rifle, shotgun, or pistol ready for use would most likely have them stolen in a burglary occuring when they are out of the house.

[dbussone]

Actually there were 2 homes burgled during the night when the occupants were sleeping - just last year in a village south of 466.

[Sandtrap328]

Actually there were 2 homes burgled during the night when the occupants were sleeping - just last year in a village south of 466.

I only heard of one - and it sounded very strange as the burglar supposedly cut the screen to a lanai door and two small dogs did not make any noise? Very suspicious sounding.

Anyhow, still there was no need for self defense.

[tuccillo]

For GA, I believe $75, a clean record, and no history of mental illness is all that is required for a concealed carry permit.

In every state I've lived in (MA, TN, MS, FL, NV, NC, GA) such a course is mandatory as part of qualifying for a concealed carry permit. However that is not necessarily the case for purchasing a gun.

[dbussone]

For GA, I believe $75, a clean record, and no history of mental illness is all that is required for a concealed carry permit.


In 1979 in Marietta, the sheriff requested that I take a gun safety course despite having just moved from MA with a carry permit. I still have the GA permit - it has my thumbprint on it rather than a photo.

[graciegirl]

I am glad that there are fine people like DBussone who own and know how to shoot a gun and who have said they would protect us non gun owners. I am glad we have the choice. I am glad I live here and in the course of living here have changed my mind about some important issues...and still may continue to change my mind.

Today is NOT tomorrow...........yet.

[pivo]

Geez how time has changed, When I was ten yrs old after we lost my Father, My Mother
bough me a 12 gauge mossberg shot gun from Sears cost 29 dollars, I use to carry it on my shoulder through the streets, past schools up the mountain to hunt, nobody I mean nobody though anything was wrong,
Can you imagine if that was today, I probably would be taken away from her.
Where the heck are we headed ?

[dbussone]

In the wrong direction.

[billethkid]

Geez how time has changed, When I was ten yrs old after we lost my Father, My Mother
bough me a 12 gauge mossberg shot gun from Sears cost 29 dollars, I use to carry it on my shoulder through the streets, past schools up the mountain to hunt, nobody I mean nobody though anything was wrong,
Can you imagine if that was today, I probably would be taken away from her.
Where the heck are we headed ?

We have been headed there for the last 20 years. With all the graphic detailed killing and violence toward man continuously in the movies and on television.
Before that time some things were left to the imagination. Then it was all out blood and guts and dismembering, slaughtering folks with guns and what ever else. The rotten foul language. The drug culture glorified by the same presenters.

Kids exposed to this from infancy and with the age of television no further than their living room.

The message? It is OK to kill and maim and murder and rape. Day after day.

The selective enforcement of our laws demonstrating that one can actually get away with murder, rape, grand larceny depending who you are.

Add to all the above the sports greats who do the dirty nasty drugs and beatings. Add to that the lawmakers in local and federal positions doing the same thing.

There IS NO mystery how we devolved into a violent, permissive anything society.

[kittygilchrist]

For GA, I believe $75, a clean record, and no history of mental illness is all that is required for a concealed carry permit.

How does one prove lacking a history of mental illness?

Not that I need another gun...:ho:

[John_W]

With all this talk about rifles, how about a picture. I wanted something like I carried in the Army, which was a M-16. A couple of years ago I bought a Smith & Wesson MP 15-22, it shoots 22 LR via a 25 round magazine. It's semi-automatic, very smooth operation and light. I've added the scope and tripod, upgraded the stock, added the sling, upgraded the grip. Here it is.

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/587x440q90/823/bkkd.jpg

[dbussone]

How does one prove lacking a history of mental illness?

Not that I need another gun...:ho:

Typically the best a state can do is check with its own mental health institutions to see if an individual has been under treatment at any time. There is no federal database that can be searched. Guess why - no not the NRA lobby - the states themselves refuse to provide the data. Go figure? Even states like MA. And quite honestly I'm glad they won't. Mental health patients face enough obstacles as it is without having their personal data hacked off another federal site. But I digress.

[dbussone]

With all this talk about rifles, how about a picture. I wanted something like I carried in the Army, which was a M-16. A couple of years ago I bought a Smith & Wesson MP 15-22, it shoots 22 LR via a 25 round magazine. It's semi-automatic, very smooth operation and light. I've added the scope and tripod, upgraded the stock, added the sling, upgraded the grip. Here it is.

https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/587x440q90/823/bkkd.jpg

Very nice, John. She's a beauty. Do you use it for varmint hunting?

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

There are 90 guns for every 100 Americans.
How many courses would we need so everyone safely knows how to handle a gun?
There are 320 million Americans.
How many students will be in each class?
Will the courses be free?
Will the teachers be paid?
Will the students be required to read past the third grade level?
Will the classes be bi-lingual?
Will the states pick up the tab or the federal government?
Who will manage the student records?

You have to take into consideration that many gun owners own multiple guns. One of the reasons that the number per 100 is so high is that we are wealthy country and many people can afford several guns. Some very wealthy gun owners may own hundreds of guns. That doesn't mean that 90 people out of every 100 own a gun.

[tomwed]

You have to take into consideration that many gun owners own multiple guns. One of the reasons that the number per 100 is so high is that we are wealthy country and many people can afford several guns. Some very wealthy gun owners may own hundreds of guns. That doesn't mean that 90 people out of every 100 own a gun.
I know it doesn't.
What is your hunch on how many people out of a hundred own guns?
There are 325 million people and 290 million guns. That much we know.

[dbussone]

I know it doesn't.
What is your hunch on how many people out of a hundred own guns?
There are 325 million people and 290 million guns. That much we know.

According to Pew Research about 40% of our households own guns.

[Walter123]

I pity you and your family if your only defense is a can of wasp spray, a car remote and billy club. Even Mace is shown to be ineffective against many, especially on drugs where they eyes water and disperse the spray. A car remote triggering an alarm? This is so common to hear that no one pays attention to and is worthless. By the time the police are called and arrive they can only write a report describing the crime scene. We can't rely on others to protect our home and family for us and must take it upon ourselves to learn and train how to do that. It's not hard, just got to realize that help isn't going to come in the nick of time like in the movies.

Don't need or want your pity Mr Shrimpy. Your paranoia is obvious. If you shoot someone even in self defense be prepared to spend $75-$100K for your defense. There are many non lethal ways to deal with an intruder. My goal would be to scare the intruder off not kill them. Did you ever shoot someone? I haven't and never want to. I fear that would haunt me forever even in self defense.

[billethkid]

Don't need or want your pity Mr Shrimpy. Your paranoia is obvious. If you shoot someone even in self defense be prepared to spend $75-$100K for your defense. There are many non lethal ways to deal with an intruder. My goal would be to scare the intruder off not kill them. Did you ever shoot someone? I haven't and never want to. I fear that would haunt me forever even in self defense.

Anecdotal, safety of one's arm chair verbiage does truly allow one to tell a story of any sort and predict what they would do or not. However in the absence of actually being an adrenal pumping fear for one's life or the life of a family member situation, almost all have no idea what their reaction would in fact be.

Here is a real story. Dog barking frantically at middle of the night. My daughter gets up to see what is up. Goes in family room to find someone cutting the screen on a window. She runs back to the bedroom gets her 12 gauge pump shotgun. Yells for the person to stop or be shot. The intruder places one leg inside the window. The dog raising hell has not slowed the person nor did the warning. Then she racked the gun and said he had until she counted to 3 before she shoots. Before hearing the end of the sentence he was gone in a flash.

Real life situation. The only difference between my daughter and me. I would have shot the intruder in the leg as he straddled the window.

Now back in the armchair. Why would an intruder to come forth with a hell raising dog barking away? Why would an intruder continue to try to enter after a verbal warning? NO FEAR......and why not? It is all hypothetical from this point.

So I chuckle when I hear what some here pontificate what they would do or not. YOU HAVE NO IDEA!!!!! Hence training like insurance...ya never know is the only fact of life.

[Walter123]

Anecdotal, safety of one's arm chair verbiage does truly allow one to tell a story of any sort and predict what they would do or not. However in the absence of actually being an adrenal pumping fear for one's life or the life of a family member situation, almost all have no idea what their reaction would in fact be.

Here is a real story. Dog barking frantically at middle of the night. My daughter gets up to see what is up. Goes in family room to find someone cutting the screen on a window. She runs back to the bedroom gets her 12 gauge pump shotgun. Yells for the person to stop or be shot. The intruder places one leg inside the window. The dog raising hell has not slowed the person nor did the warning. Then she racked the gun and said he had until she counted to 3 before she shoots. Before hearing the end of the sentence he was gone in a flash.

Real life situation. The only difference between my daughter and me. I would have shot the intruder in the leg as he straddled the window.

Now back in the armchair. Why would an intruder to come forth with a hell raising dog barking away? Why would an intruder continue to try to enter after a verbal warning? NO FEAR......and why not? It is all hypothetical from this point.

So I chuckle when I hear what some here pontificate what they would do or not. YOU HAVE NO IDEA!!!!! Hence training like insurance...ya never know is the only fact of life.

You are correct. No one really knows what they might do or, might be able to do. So do whatever helps you sleep at night.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

It's only 160 million people or less who need training minus any schools that have been training all along.
Anyone who doesn't speak English is exempt or is required to learn English before attending class and someone will be hired to enforce the rule.
All my great grandparents came through Ellis Island. By the time my grand parents came along they were assimilated too. It's very common where I came from. We lived close to Ellis Island.
I'm a retired teacher. When I started teaching we had drivers Ed and many shop, music and art classes that had to be dropped as budgets got voted down. Guess who voted them down?

When I was 16, I had to pay for my own driver's ed classes at a private driving school. I don't understand why taxpayers should have to pay to teach kids how to drive. Music class in my Jr High School was a joke. We sat and sang songs while the "teacher" played the piano. Art classes weren't much different. We considered, music, art and shop as a break from classes.
Now, I'm a musician and as such an artist. I am very much in favor of the arts, but the way they were being taught when I was in school was a joke. I can see paying for these kinds of subjects in school if the kids actually learned something about them. I never learned a thing about music in school. I took private lessons and taught myself.

[CFrance]

When I was 16, I had to pay for my own driver's ed classes at a private driving school. I don't understand why taxpayers should have to pay to teach kids how to drive. Music class in my Jr High School was a joke. We sat and sang songs while the "teacher" played the piano. Art classes weren't much different. We considered, music, art and shop as a break from classes.
Now, I'm a musician and as such an artist. I am very much in favor of the arts, but the way they were being taught when I was in school was a joke. I can see paying for these kinds of subjects in school if the kids actually learned something about them. I never learned a thing about music in school. I took private lessons and taught myself.
I guess these last few posts point out differences in people's experiences and expectations. My son, for example, started playing the double bass in the 5th grade. He had the same classroom music instructor form then to end of high school, and their orchestra won awards all over the state. He didn't start taking lessons until he was a sophomore in high school. In fact, he didn't even get a bass of his own till then. The art and music programs in his school were excellent, as they were in my own.

As for guns vs wasp spray, I'm glad your daughter is okay, BTK. I personally would have gone with the wasp spray, especially since I don't have a gun. So I'm with Walter on that one.

[graciegirl]

I guess these last few posts point out differences in people's experiences and expectations. My son, for example, started playing the double bass in the 5th grade. He had the same classroom music instructor form then to end of high school, and their orchestra won awards all over the state. He didn't start taking lessons until he was a sophomore in high school. In fact, he didn't even get a bass of his own till then. The art and music programs in his school were excellent, as they were in my own.

As for guns vs wasp spray, I'm glad your daughter is okay, BTK. I personally would have gone with the wasp spray, especially since I don't have a gun. So I'm with Walter on that one.


The education opportunities for myself and our children and grandchildren were very, very good and included advanced placement courses and wonderful art and music classes that were not for deadbeats.

One of the things I find hard in The Villages is that we all seem to think that our area of the country does things or has things or experiences things in the same way as all other areas of the country..

I got into a heated argument with a retired New York Police officer who told me I was misinformed about the area of Ohio where I lived and the fact that it had one murder in twenty years with close to a hundred thousand in population.

We come with preconceived ideas because our experiences give us those ideas.

I was at first shocked and surprised to find people who had guns who didn't hunt, but the world is changing. I would rather the good guys have guns. And maybe someday I will too.

[tuccillo]

I had several neighbors (in GA, recently) with concealed carry permits and the only thing they did was pay $75.

In 1979 in Marietta, the sheriff requested that I take a gun safety course despite having just moved from MA with a carry permit. I still have the GA permit - it has my thumbprint on it rather than a photo.

[tuccillo]

I believe when you apply for a concealed carry permit they do a computer background check for a criminal record and whether you have been committed for mental illness.

How does one prove lacking a history of mental illness?

Not that I need another gun...:ho:

[MikeV]

I had NY, NH, PA and CT concealed carry permits when I moved to FL. Now I have FL CCW. My FL CCW is good in 32 states but not NY or CT. My point is every time I applied for a new State CCW I had to go through all the background checks and fingerprinting, pay a fee etc. The only class I had to take was the NRA Basic Firearms Class and it was good in all the States I applied to. The applications and fees are specific to each state. In Florida all I had to do was include a copy of my NY permit since that is where I came from and do the above stuff pay a fee and I got it in about 6 weeks. So if you think it an easy process I would tend to disagree.

[Sandtrap328]

I had NY, NH, PA and CT concealed carry permits when I moved to FL. Now I have FL CCW. My FL CCW is good in 32 states but not NY or CT. My point is every time I applied for a new State CCW I had to go through all the background checks and fingerprinting, pay a fee etc. The only class I had to take was the NRA Basic Firearms Class and it was good in all the States I applied to. The applications and fees are specific to each state. In Florida all I had to do was include a copy of my NY permit since that is where I came from and do the above stuff pay a fee and I got it in about 6 weeks. So if you think it an easy process I would tend to disagree.

What? It is NOT an easy process? You took the NRA Basic Course one time! You had to pay for background check and fingerprint fees in all the states. It cost you money but that was not a difficult thing as long as you had the money.

You did NOT have to take the NRA course each time nor demonstrate skill each time. You just had to fill out paperwork and pay a state fee.

As I stated before, any veteran with an honorable discharge can get the CCW by payng only for fingerprints and processing fee (around $125). Very easy process in Florida. Yes, I imagine there are the application forms and the computerized background check. No classes or shooting test required.

[dbussone]

Each time I moved and applied for a CCW I took the course again - to brush up and to retain an appropriate knowledge base. Rules do vary by state and the best way to update ones self is to take the current course. My wife has done the same, as have others I know. Not all of us are the drooling blatherers some would like to think.

[cromlich]

I am trying to think where I first heard it. My husband who does not have a gun says it.

You know I admire you Bogie Shooter and your straightforward attitude but I would like to take the opportunity to point out that I watch all three of the big news stations and I speak frequently to our granddaughter who is an executive producer of local evening news in a not small American city.

AND...

I am told I am not as dumb as I look, Bogie.

Graciegirl, you always make me smile!

[Sandtrap328]

Each time I moved and applied for a CCW I took the course again - to brush up and to retain an appropriate knowledge base. Rules do vary by state and the best way to update ones self is to take the current course. My wife has done the same, as have others I know. Not all of us are the drooling blatherers some would like to think.

Sounds as though you and the missus have done it right. I imagine some states have different rules and regulations about concealed carry - where and where not the pistol can be legally carried, etc.

Keep them all in the 10 ring!

[MikeV]

What? It is NOT an easy process? You took the NRA Basic Course one time! You had to pay for background check and fingerprint fees in all the states. It cost you money but that was not a difficult thing as long as you had the money.

You did NOT have to take the NRA course each time nor demonstrate skill each time. You just had to fill out paperwork and pay a state fee.

As I stated before, any veteran with an honorable discharge can get the CCW by payng only for fingerprints and processing fee (around $125). Very easy process in Florida. Yes, I imagine there are the application forms and the computerized background check. No classes or shooting test required.



I had NY, NH, PA and CT concealed carry permits when I moved to FL. Now I have FL CCW. My FL CCW is good in 32 states but not NY or CT. My point is every time I applied for a new State CCW I had to go through all the background checks and fingerprinting, pay a fee etc. The only class I had to take was the NRA Basic Firearms Class and it was good in all the States I applied to. The applications and fees are specific to each state. In Florida all I had to do was include a copy of my NY permit since that is where I came from and do the above stuff pay a fee and I got it in about 6 weeks. So if you think it an easy process I would tend to disagree.


Well I did have to drive to the Sheriff in PA twice each time I renewed. They only accept applications and issue in person. Ha.

[dbussone]

Sounds as though you and the missus have done it right. I imagine some states have different rules and regulations about concealed carry - where and where not the pistol can be legally carried, etc.



Keep them all in the 10 ring!


My wife always does. Me, not as often. She is much the better shot with a pistol.

[Paper1]

I'm not suggesting the NRA. I don't know the first thing about the NRA except that they have a lobby. I don't know what an Endowment Life Member is. It's none of my business.

I'm just asking who, what, when and where questions.

I think you are not seeing me as I am.
Like the Lady G I am quite comfortable with gun owners in The Villages. They have a lifetime of experiences handling weapons.

When I lived in Newark, I was a little more than worried.

You bring up some reasonable points but they will not get much traction in this forum. I don't believe the problem is lack of safety training but instead anyone who can fog a mirror and has the financial resourses can buy as many firearms and ammunition as they want. I was an NRA member for a number of years but could no longer support their position on firearm sales.
I personally would have no problem with gun registration. Due to lobbying we cannot even have an intelligent discussion about it.

[tomwed]

You bring up some reasonable points but they will not get much traction in this forum. I don't believe the problem is lack of safety training but instead anyone who can fog a mirror and has the financial resourses can buy as many firearms and ammunition as they want. I was an NRA member for a number of years but could no longer support their position on firearm sales.
I personally would have no problem with gun registration. Due to lobbying we cannot even have an intelligent discussion about it.
Did you see the Frontline episode on the NRA? click here (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gunned-down/)
Draw your own conclusions.

[bobbym]

lets remember that all guns are banned in Great Britain and even policemen do not carry. Permits for hunting are hard to obtain. So the notion put forth that only bad guys or gals with have them when guns are banned is not proven. but I am resigned to know that this not-so-great country will never ban guns

Giving up your guns because you think that criminals
have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your
neighbors have too many kids.

[tomwed]

Giving up your guns because you think that criminals
have too many guns is like having yourself castrated because you think your
neighbors have too many kids.
I might have trouble sleeping tonight.

[bobbym]

When I was ready to pay for my purchases of gun powder and bullets, the cashier said, “Strip down, facing me.”

Making a mental note to complain to the NRA about the gun control wackos running amok, I did just as she had instructed.

When the hysterical shrieking and alarms finally subsided, I found out that she was referring to how I should place my credit card in the card reader.

I have been asked to shop elsewhere in the future.

They need to make their instructions to seniors a little clearer…..

[Sandtrap328]

My wife always does. Me, not as often. She is much the better shot with a pistol.

Just curious, do you have a window in your bathroom?

[dbussone]

??? The main bathroom, no. In the separate water closet, frosted glass. Why???

[Paper1]

Did you see the Frontline episode on the NRA? click here (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/gunned-down/)
Draw your own conclusions.

Don't confuse us with facts, the earth is flat regardless of what you say.

[Sandtrap328]

??? The main bathroom, no. In the separate water closet, frosted glass. Why???

Just about 5 years ago, here in The Villages, a husband and wife were both retired police officers and both owned pistols. The husband, by his own admission, was a total jerk toward his wife.

One morning after a nasty argument, she just had all she could take! The husband was in the shower. She came into the bathroom and shot him three times in the stomach. He escaped through the bathroom window!

An actual standoff situation developed with SWAT team and a helicopter on Talley Ridge Drive. The lady surrendered after a few hours. The husband recuperated after a long time. He moved. She is in prison.

Moral of the story - if your wife has a pistol, it is smart to have a bathroom window.

[Chi-Town]

What if she came in through the bathroom window?

[dbussone]

Just about 5 years ago, here in The Villages, a husband and wife were both retired police officers and both owned pistols. The husband, by his own admission, was a total jerk toward his wife.

One morning after a nasty argument, she just had all she could take! The husband was in the shower. She came into the bathroom and shot him three times in the stomach. He escaped through the bathroom window!

An actual standoff situation developed with SWAT team and a helicopter on Talley Ridge Drive. The lady surrendered after a few hours. The husband recuperated after a long time. He moved. She is in prison.

Moral of the story - if your wife has a pistol, it is smart to have a bathroom window.

Great to know! Thanks.

P.S. - my wife is a retired nurse. I think if she wanted to do me in, she knows lots of quiet ways to get the job done.

[dbussone]

What if she came in through the bathroom window?

All windows are alarmed. That would give her away.