Hard freeze warning

[Rons Landscaping]

Just a reminder to everyone, turn your timer off on your irrigation until this cold snap passes. You do not want your irrigation to run during freezing weather, it will cause icing on your plants and do serious damage to the plant tissue. Cover your tender plants with sheets or old blankets. Do not use garbage bags or plastics of any kind, that will do more damage then good. Let's just hope it doesn't stay below freezing for to many hours. Then turn your timer back on when the cold weather passes.

[kleeh]

seems that water spray is used to prevent damage to crops when a snap freeze is imminent...where did I get that from?

[kleeh]

I just remembered it was from a movie staring Mary Steenburgen and Rip Torn, local was the Everglades and she was trying to grow...something?

[Oneiric]

I'm confused,Ron. Waters freezes at 32 degrees. If the air temperature goes down to 25 degrees,aren't we protecting our plants from further injury,like wearing a jacket,as they do in Orange groves?

[Polar Bear]

Don't farmers, citrus growers, etc. run sprinklers in freezing weather to prevent damage?

[dbussone]

Don't farmers, citrus growers, etc. run sprinklers in freezing weather to prevent damage?


Yes. To prevent the fruit from freezing they spray the orchards with water to coat the fruit. The water freezes but the fruit does not.

[Oneiric]

So in a hard freeze, if you cover the plant with a "sheet or old blanket", It's going to be 25 degrees under the blanket if it's 25 degrees outside the blanket. Covering only works with a frost, not a freeze. Correct?

[Ozzello]

Back when they (citrus growers) were using overhead irrigation, during a freeze, the irrigation would be turned on all night creating an ice igloo canopy, supposedly to keep the grafted portion of the tree at 32F. It didn't work, unfortunately, and you lost all your fruit. Well, it wasn't fit for peeling and eating. Still ok to make OJ concentrate and feed cattle .
The best method the FL citrus farmer ever had to protect citrus, was the old fashioned way. Build a fire, well... a LOT of fires. The high faluting growers had grove pots to fill with diesel. In the 80s we lost the area citrus to freeze...twice, because nobody would come work all night helping the farmers keep the grove fires going. Why? One freeze on Christmas day night, (then 2 years of replanting) and then a freeze on Christmas eve. The 1st time the Gov. paid the farmers to clear and replant the groves. The 2nd time.... no dice. Retirement community property got real cheap though !
Covering (properly) can save your plants from frost damage in a light frost or save plants from dying from freeze during a short light freeze, BUT in a hard long freeze, you better add a heat source, I have seen tropical and sub-tropical plants die or damage even in a green house, because the heater broke down. Yes, right here in TV area. If it gets cold enough for long enough, covering a plant might not be enough.

[Rons Landscaping]

The University of Florida is a very good source of information for plants and lawns. Ron was correct about turning off your irrigation system. Thank you Ron. From the University of Florida IFAS site: Turn off in-ground irrigation systems before freezing temperatures occur. Nurseries and strawberry farmers protect crops during a freeze by sprinkling the plants with water.

Sprinkling for cold protection helps keep leaf surface temperatures near 32°F (0°C), because sprinkling utilizes latent heat released when water changes from a liquid to a solid state (ice). Sprinkling must begin as freezing temperatures are reached and continue until thawing is completed.

Home irrigation systems are not designed to supply water in quantities ample enough to maintain a film of liquid water on plant surfaces, thus more harm than good usually results. Water soaks the soil resulting in damaged root systems plants break due to ice build up, and water is wasted. Furthermore, water restrictions do not allow this use in much of the state, and fines can be levied.

Also: Covers are better at protecting plants from frost than from extreme cold. Covers must extend to the ground to trap radiant heat and may need to be anchored with rocks, bricks, soil, etc., if is windy.

Ideally, the covering should not rest on the foliage, as it may be injured by the contact. Some examples of coverings are commercial frost protection fabrics like “frost cloth,” bedsheets, quilts, or black plastic. Gallon milk or water jugs can be used to protect small plants. Simply cut the flat bottom off and place them over the plants. Valuable plant specimens can be protected with temporary greenhouses constructed of wood framing and plastic sheets. The addition of a light bulb or a string of Christmas lights under a cover is a simple method of providing heat to plants in the landscape. Remove plastic covers during a sunny day or provide ventilation of trapped heat.



Source: ENH1/MG025: Cold Protection of Landscape Plants (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg025)
Well said, I would just be careful using plastic bottles or plastics of any kind.

[Rons Landscaping]

Back when they (citrus growers) were using overhead irrigation, during a freeze, the irrigation would be turned on all night creating an ice igloo canopy, supposedly to keep the grafted portion of the tree at 32F. It didn't work, unfortunately, and you lost all your fruit. Well, it wasn't fit for peeling and eating. Still ok to make OJ concentrate and feed cattle .
The best method the FL citrus farmer ever had to protect citrus, was the old fashioned way. Build a fire, well... a LOT of fires. The high faluting growers had grove pots to fill with diesel. In the 80s we lost the area citrus to freeze...twice, because nobody would come work all night helping the farmers keep the grove fires going. Why? One freeze on Christmas day night, (then 2 years of replanting) and then a freeze on Christmas eve. The 1st time the Gov. paid the farmers to clear and replant the groves. The 2nd time.... no dice. Retirement community property got real cheap though !
Covering (properly) can save your plants from frost damage in a light frost or save plants from dying from freeze during a short light freeze, BUT in a hard long freeze, you better add a heat source, I have seen tropical and sub-tropical plants die or damage even in a green house, because the heater broke down. Yes, right here in TV area. If it gets cold enough for long enough, covering a plant might not be enough.
Also well said, I remember those major freezes just a few years apart in the 80's. I was living in New Port Richey Florida at the time, and it got down to 17-degrees on Christmas eve. When it gets that cold it doesn't make any differents what a person does for their plants, there dead in those kind of temps. You did not see a Queen Palm alive until you got about 50-miles south of Tampa. The problem here in The Villages is, there are a lot of plants that should not even be planted here. Unfortunately they are being told by their landscaper that the plants will be alright in cold weather, when in fact they will not. I see so many sub-tropical plants here it isn't funny. Unfortunately these people planting them don't know, and a lot of them don't care they just want to take your money and move on to the next victim. They have absolutely no horticultural back round. Remember, anyone can grab a shovel and dig a hole and call themselves a landscaper.

[Rons Landscaping]

Back when they (citrus growers) were using overhead irrigation, during a freeze, the irrigation would be turned on all night creating an ice igloo canopy, supposedly to keep the grafted portion of the tree at 32F. It didn't work, unfortunately, and you lost all your fruit. Well, it wasn't fit for peeling and eating. Still ok to make OJ concentrate and feed cattle .
The best method the FL citrus farmer ever had to protect citrus, was the old fashioned way. Build a fire, well... a LOT of fires. The high faluting growers had grove pots to fill with diesel. In the 80s we lost the area citrus to freeze...twice, because nobody would come work all night helping the farmers keep the grove fires going. Why? One freeze on Christmas day night, (then 2 years of replanting) and then a freeze on Christmas eve. The 1st time the Gov. paid the farmers to clear and replant the groves. The 2nd time.... no dice. Retirement community property got real cheap though !
Covering (properly) can save your plants from frost damage in a light frost or save plants from dying from freeze during a short light freeze, BUT in a hard long freeze, you better add a heat source, I have seen tropical and sub-tropical plants die or damage even in a green house, because the heater broke down. Yes, right here in TV area. If it gets cold enough for long enough, covering a plant might not be enough.
Also well said, I remember those hard freezes in the 80's, I was living in New Port Richey Florida at the time and it got down to 17-degrees Christmas Eve. When it get's that cold, it doesn't make any differents what you do the plant is dead any way. You didn't see a Queen Palm tree alive until you got about 50-miles south of Tampa. One of the major problems here in The Villages is that so many residents have sub-tropical plants in their yards. Make sure your landscaper knows what he is talking about. Check their back round, see if they have any kind of horticultural back round. See if they have workers comp on their employees, or any liability insurance. Remember if they don't, you are liable if someone gets hurt on your property. Remember, any one can grab a shovel and a wheelbarrow and call themselves a landscaper. Protect yourself, a lot of these people will say anything you want to here, and move on to their next victim.

[Ozzello]

Also well said, I remember those hard freezes in the 80's, I was living in New Port Richey Florida at the time and it got down to 17-degrees Christmas Eve. When it get's that cold, it doesn't make any differents what you do the plant is dead any way. You didn't see a Queen Palm tree alive until you got about 50-miles south of Tampa. One of the major problems here in The Villages is that so many residents have sub-tropical plants in their yards. Make sure your landscaper knows what he is talking about. Check their back round, see if they have any kind of horticultural back round. See if they have workers comp on their employees, or any liability insurance. Remember if they don't, you are liable if someone gets hurt on your property. Remember, any one can grab a shovel and a wheelbarrow and call themselves a landscaper. Protect yourself, a lot of these people will say anything you want to here, and move on to their next victim.

Agreed Ron. Many of these 'new' Landscape companies that showed up during the economic crunch with large advertising budgets, 'designers' from south of Orlando or lawn guys who have learned the names of a couple palms and shrubs are doing the residents here a great dis-service planting the sub tropical and fast growing shrubs under short windows, etc.

In the several hundred landscapes over the last 2 years I designed, 70%..yes SEVENTY PERCENT.. were originally installed 3-7 years ago. So much for the good landscapers being out of work when the building stops.

I agree with what you say about the guys grabbing a shovel and calling themselves a landscaper, but even some of the bigger fancier companies that have shown up in the last 10 years are sending out 'designers' that are more salesmen than designer. Find out if your big company fancy designer's experience is all south Florida, or maybe they are dog groomers with a new found profession.

I can remember ol' J.W. Jr (God rest his soul) sitting in his garden center in Fruitland Park giggling about folks planting weeping bottlebrush here. I bet no one heard those trees are cold sensitive here in over a decade.

Folks, find out the SPECIFIC temperature the plants your designer is using will damage at, and die at. If your designer tells you a plant "goes down in winter", ask about root hardiness.. or better yet, find a landscape designer with 20 years or more in THIS AREA, and maybe, one that cracked some college books on horticulture, construction and landscape architecture.
If you show up at your landscape designer's office and they have a couple thin DIY books,and doesn't say "ya'll" ... be careful.

[Rons Landscaping]

I didn't realize my reply went to the second page that is why I made 2-post. I had to laugh when you made that comment about weeping bottle brush. I actually lost a couple jobs over the years because I told people what they didn't want to hear. Another problem with weeping bottle brush trees is they will always split in the crotch in a strong wind. It's sad to see what is happening south of 466-A with the landscaping on residential yards. Most of it will be gone when we have a normal winter again. So many landscape companies are selling them any kind of plants no matter if they are for this zone or not. A lot of them don't care they are just there for there money and nothing else. There is more mason work going on in the yards then horticultural work. Even though we do walls also, I always tell the customer of all the maintenance required with the walls before they choose them in their landscape design. You can have a very nice landscape look without all the walls.

[Nova Filtration]

Have you noticed that Ron is the only landscaper on the forums that contributes useful knowledgeable advice.

There are others that advertise their services but contribute nothing to the community.

I think this is a company that deserves the support of the residents.

[Ozzello]

Have you noticed that Ron is the only landscaper on the forums that contributes useful knowledgeable advice.

There are others that advertise their services but contribute nothing to the community.

I think this is a company that deserves the support of the residents.

Well, there is one that ISN'T advertising here, yet contributes...

[Ozzello]

Just realizing.. we had SUB FREEZING TEMPERATURES ... BELOW 25F !!!!

If some plants die (that some landscapers say are fine here)... and queen palms don't die (that some people say will).... I get to do the "told you so" dance.

I know it isn't attractive, but sometimes I feel like I am standing at the edge of a cliff trying to talk lemmings into not following the lemming in front of it.

[Chi-Town]

Just realizing.. we had SUB FREEZING TEMPERATURES ... BELOW 25F !!!!

If some plants die (that some landscapers say are fine here)... and queen palms don't die (that some people say will).... I get to do the "told you so" dance.

I know it isn't attractive, but sometimes I feel like I am standing at the edge of a cliff trying to talk lemmings into not following the lemming in front of it.

Not to worry about the lemmings:

http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.asp

[Laurie2]

Hey! People who know stuff!

I was bad. I did not cover anything. Ohhhhhhh, the guilt! The guilt!

I really liked my plant called ginger something. It has beautiful variegated green foliage. Well, had.-- Now it is all yellow and freeze-fried.

So do I go out there and apologize and cut it off almost to the ground and water it and do a little c'mon spring dance? Or do I just take a shovel to it?

I was having an attitude like -- Make it or don't. Let's see what you're made of.

Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.

[Ozzello]

Hey! People who know stuff!

I was bad. I did not cover anything. Ohhhhhhh, the guilt! The guilt!

I really liked my plant called ginger something. It has beautiful variegated green foliage. Well, had.-- Now it is all yellow and freeze-fried.

So do I go out there and apologize and cut it off almost to the ground and water it and do a little c'mon spring dance? Or do I just take a shovel to it?

I was having an attitude like -- Make it or don't. Let's see what you're made of.

Mea culpa. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.


LUCKY LAURIE! Ginger is root hardy.
Though that popular ver. variety is tender to cold, and not root hardy if the tuberous root freezes. Pretty sure you're ok.

Yes, cut it low as possible (after the last frost). If you have stones for mulch, push it back and keep it bare till it pops up.

[Rons Landscaping]

Back when they (citrus growers) were using overhead irrigation, during a freeze, the irrigation would be turned on all night creating an ice igloo canopy, supposedly to keep the grafted portion of the tree at 32F. It didn't work, unfortunately, and you lost all your fruit. Well, it wasn't fit for peeling and eating. Still ok to make OJ concentrate and feed cattle .
The best method the FL citrus farmer ever had to protect citrus, was the old fashioned way. Build a fire, well... a LOT of fires. The high faluting growers had grove pots to fill with diesel. In the 80s we lost the area citrus to freeze...twice, because nobody would come work all night helping the farmers keep the grove fires going. Why? One freeze on Christmas day night, (then 2 years of replanting) and then a freeze on Christmas eve. The 1st time the Gov. paid the farmers to clear and replant the groves. The 2nd time.... no dice. Retirement community property got real cheap though !
Covering (properly) can save your plants from frost damage in a light frost or save plants from dying from freeze during a short light freeze, BUT in a hard long freeze, you better add a heat source, I have seen tropical and sub-tropical plants die or damage even in a green house, because the heater broke down. Yes, right here in TV area. If it gets cold enough for long enough, covering a plant might not be enough.
I just wanted to make a comment about Ozello's post and Cunninghams Home Services post. I could not have said it any better, your remarks were right on the money. I have never said that about anyone making a post here before on Landscape Talk. It is nice to hear someone making remarks that are correct, and know about Florida's plant life. There are a lot of post made from people with their ideas about what should be done with their landscaping, but there remarks are so wrong it makes me wonder where in the world they heard it, or who told them. I understand most people moving here are not going to know about Florida's plant life, and what type of plants and trees to use in their landscape project. I preach this over and over, when you have a health problem do you go to your neighbors or friends for their advice, or do you go to your Doctor. ( Who is a professional in his or her field ) Stop and listen, ask them some questions only a person with a horticultural back round would know. Stop and look, at what they drove up in for a vehicle, is it clean and taken care of, if not, there work will look the same. Can they answer your questions with any type of horticultural answers, our is it just yeah, they look pretty they will do just fine. Now don't get me wrong, there are a few good landscaping companies around, you noticed I said a few. Most of them out there don't even know the growth rate of the plants they are selling, whether they require fall sun, shade, partial sun, cold hardy or not, and if they are, to what point, and will they come back or not. Like Ozello said, are they root hardy, can I cut them back to the ground and will they come back. I get at least 1 to 2 phone calls every week from someone in The Villages that had their landscaping done not long ago, and it is either dying, the work was not finished, they can't get them back to fix the problems, the list goes on and on. One of the first questions I ask them is, what did you pay to have the work done. There answer is always the same. Let me just say if the price sounds to good to be true it is, you get what you pay for. Most all of the time their landscaper was some guy with a wheelbarrow and a truck, or people with no workers comp or insurance, no company name on there trucks, or there lawn guy who cuts their grass and is now a landscape designer with no knowledge of Florida's plant life other than knowing the names of a couple of plants and trees he knows. I talk with the head landscape designer here in The Villages a lot, and he makes the same remarks I just said. Ron did you see this job that they are doing at so and so's address, on so and so street? (Just be careful, anyone can grab a wheelbarrow and a shovel and call themselves a landscaper). And by the way Ozello"s remark about plants even dying in the greenhouses during a freeze when the heaters go out is correct. That happened to me in 1989 or 1990 when I was a wholesale grower here in Florida. We grew around 130,000 plants at a time, and one night the heat went out during a hard freeze in one of our greenhouses, and I lost 6,000 plants in about 3-hours, mother nature can be cruel. Again, it was nice hearing some very nice remarks from Ozello and Cunningham's Home Service.

[Ozzello]

Going to be a LOT of phone calls in the next couple weeks.....

And when they tell you this freeze was an Act of God, and not typical for this area, Look at the 50 and 100 year cycles for our local weather patterns (like the Government does for building retention areas and planting landscapes), you will find God has been acting like this for a loooong time. Winters over the last 10-15 years have been a bit mild.
If the 'cold hardy' plants your landscaper planted froze, I'd like to see some posts about what plants, and who planted them. Just for some accountability, they can probably afford it.

[Ozzello]

I just wanted to make a comment about Ozello's post and Cunninghams Home Services post. I could not have said it any better, your remarks were right on the money. I have never said that about anyone making a post here before on Landscape Talk. It is nice to hear someone making remarks that are correct, and know about Florida's plant life. There are a lot of post made from people with their ideas about what should be done with their landscaping, but there remarks are so wrong it makes me wonder where in the world they heard it, or who told them. I understand most people moving here are not going to know about Florida's plant life, and what type of plants and trees to use in their landscape project. I preach this over and over, when you have a health problem do you go to your neighbors or friends for their advice, or do you go to your Doctor. ( Who is a professional in his or her field ) Stop and listen, ask them some questions only a person with a horticultural back round would know. Stop and look, at what they drove up in for a vehicle, is it clean and taken care of, can they answer your questions with any type of horticultural answers, our is it just yeah, they look pretty they will do just fine. Now don't get me wrong, there are a few good landscaping companies around, you noticed I said a few. Most of them out there don't even know the growth rate of the plants they are selling, whether they require fall sun, shade, partial sun, cold hardy or not, and if they are, to what point, and will they come back or not. Like Ozello said, are they root

lol Ron, you spelled Ozello with 1 'Z', like you know where it is :)

I also notice you don't post 'letters' thanking yourself for the awesome landscape you planted yourself.. Kudos man