Is it okay to leave a tip (money) on the table?

[Villages PL]

This information comes from Annie's Mailbox, a regular column in the Daily Sun.

Annie said there was a study done about a year ago, at New York University, and it was found that dollar bills that were tested contained 3,000 different forms of bacteria. Some could cause the following:

1) gastric-ulcers

2) pneumonia

3) food poisoning

4) staph infections

5) acne

Also, there was fungi, plant pathogens, DNA from animals, and even minute amounts of diphtheria and anthrax.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/04/21/researchers-find-thousands-bacteria-living-on-dollar-bills/

Is it safe to put tips on the table in restaurants? The waiters then pick up the tips with their bare hands and continue serving customers.

The health department is fussy about how the kitchen is kept, it must be just so, but don't they have anything to say about the filthy money situation?

[Rickg]

They are picking up a lot worse. Used napkins, plates, utensils, items off the floor, menus touched by hundreds before. I don't think I'll worry about it. 😁

[rubicon]

So should we wash our money before we go to a restaurant to prevent contamination either to the table or to the server or perhaps both?

Or perhaps we should just use our credit/debit cards and avoiding handling dirty money

[Villages PL]

I knew the replies would be that bacteria is everywhere anyway so why worry about it. That's true; bacteria are everywhere. That being the case, why does the health department bother inspecting restaurant kitchens?

[CFrance]

Because salmonella is not everywhere?

Don't answer that. It's a rhetorical question.

[Chi-Town]

If I were you I would use Apple Pay.

[Villages PL]

Because salmonella is not everywhere?

Don't answer that. It's a rhetorical question.

Sorry, that's not a question. Here's a rhetorical question: Didn't I list "food poisoning" in my opening post?

[Villages PL]

If I were you I would use Apple Pay.

Do you pay the tip with Apple Pay too?

But even if you do, the waiter has been touching other peoples money all day long.

[CFrance]

Sorry, that's not a question. Here's a rhetorical question: Didn't I list "food poisoning" in my opening post?
I was making a point. A rhetorical question is a figure of speech (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_speech) in the form of a question (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Question) that is asked in order to make a point, rather than to elicit an answer. Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_question#cite_note-rhetorical_question_definition-1)

[onslowe]

Apart from requiring everyone everywhere to wear HazMat type outfits, what does the OP propose to solve or mitigate this supposed problem?

[dbussone]

The only solution is to stop eating.

[graciegirl]

Holy bowlegged Sarah!

[dbussone]

Holy bowlegged Sarah!

Somehow I knew Sarah was about to show up.

[Shimpy]

I always make it a point not to put my spoon, fork, knife on the table, but on a napkin. Usually after each customer they wipe off the table and seat with the same rag which is used who knows where else. I'm not a germ freak and realize that some exposure is a good thing, but just have a thing about putting my fork on that table that just wiped off the seats. The rags are probably used all day and without disinfectant.

[gomoho]

I grew up eating dirt and my kids grew up chewing on the disgusting handles of grocery carts and keys. We lived. Don't think the money is an issue. Health department needs to look at the big picture of cockroaches, and food not kept at the right temperature etc.

[Barefoot]

Apart from requiring everyone everywhere to wear HazMat type outfits, what does the OP propose to solve or mitigate this supposed problem?

Since most people use Visa or Debit cards, I don't think dirty money is a big problem for most of us.
But it might be a good idea for a new restaurant for germaphobics - a restaurant where everyone wears HazMat suits and everything is sterilized multiple times. :evil6:

[red tail]

yikes......I took a drink out of my garden hose without thinking,!!!

[newguyintv]

This information comes from Annie's Mailbox, a regular column in the Daily Sun.

Annie said there was a study done about a year ago, at New York University, and it was found that dollar bills that were tested contained 3,000 different forms of bacteria. Some could cause the following:

1) gastric-ulcers

2) pneumonia

3) food poisoning

4) staph infections

5) acne

Also, there was fungi, plant pathogens, DNA from animals, and even minute amounts of diphtheria and anthrax.

I don't have a link to the study and I'm not looking for one because I think it's common sense that dollar bills naturally contain lots of different kinds of bacteria.

Is it safe to put tips on the table in restaurants? The waiters then pick up the tips with their bare hands and continue serving customers.

The health department is fussy about how the kitchen is kept, it must be just so, but don't they have anything to say about the filthy money situation?

If this is an excuse for not leaving a tip then don't leave one.

[Bogie Shooter]

yikes......I took a drink out of my garden hose without thinking,!!!

What's wrong with that?

[redwitch]

Be interesting to find out what gunk is on credit cards. I know they did a study on cell phones and found a public toilet was cleaner. If you're really that worried about bacteria and the like suggest you invest in a hazmat suit. It really is the only way of guaranteeing a sterile environment. Sorry, there are far more important things to worry about in this world.

[The20Percent]

What's wrong with that?

Years ago we were traveling in a motorhome. We hooked up our water as usual with a waterhose from our RV to the campgrounds water supply. The water tasted funny for the next couple of days. It wasen't until we went to disconnect the waterhose that we looked inside the hose and saw one half of a lizard dangling inside it!

[tomwed]

Has anybody noticed if your health improves if you don't go out to eat or buy take-out? When I worked I use to eat the cafeteria food, take-out and a restaurant once a week. Now I have the time to cook and I enjoy it. I'm not germaphobic. But I wonder if you are less susceptible if others don't handle your food.

[CFrance]

Has anybody noticed if your health improves if you don't go out to eat or buy take-out? When I worked I use to eat the cafeteria food, take-out and a restaurant once a week. Now I have the time to cook and I enjoy it. I'm not germaphobic. But I wonder if you are less susceptible if others don't handle your food.
We just came back from a month of other people handling our food and no health problems arose, so I guess not, at least in our case. I do find, however, that it's easier to eat healthier when we eat at home.

[sunnyatlast]

Money really is dirty/germy. But the servers aren't touching the food on the plate when they bring it, and if a food runner brings it, they are usually wearing disposable gloves.

When our kids became servers (about 8-9 years ago) they were required to wash hands after clearing a table and other such things, and it was strictly enforced. Probably not all places to that.

I carry a small bottle of hand sanitizer in my purse and when we're dining out, I use it before eating if I haven't washed hands at a sink first.

[jblum315]

This information comes from Annie's Mailbox, a regular column in the Daily Sun.

Annie said there was a study done about a year ago, at New York University, and it was found that dollar bills that were tested contained 3,000 different forms of bacteria. Some could cause the following:

1) gastric-ulcers

2) pneumonia

3) food poisoning

4) staph infections

5) acne

Also, there was fungi, plant pathogens, DNA from animals, and even minute amounts of diphtheria and anthrax.

I don't have a link to the study and I'm not looking for one because I think it's common sense that dollar bills naturally contain lots of different kinds of bacteria.

Is it safe to put tips on the table in restaurants? The waiters then pick up the tips with their bare hands and continue serving customers.

The health department is fussy about how the kitchen is kept, it must be just so, but don't they have anything to say about the filthy money situation?
I always give a cash tip to insure against the server having to share.
I pay for the meal with a debit ccrd and handover the tip when I get my card back
I can't be worried about germs - there are so many transactions during the day it would be silly. I do use hand sanitizer often

[Bonanza]

Since most people use Visa or Debit cards, I don't think dirty money is a big problem for most of us.
But it might be a good idea for a new restaurant for germaphobics - a restaurant where everyone wears HazMat suits and everything is sterilized multiple times. :evil6:

Hey, Bare.
I'll take all the dirty mopney I can lay my hands on!

[Bonanza]

This information comes from Annie's Mailbox, a regular column in the Daily Sun.

Annie said there was a study done about a year ago, at New York University, and it was found that dollar bills that were tested contained 3,000 different forms of bacteria. Some could cause the following:
1) gastric-ulcers
2) pneumonia
3) food poisoning
4) staph infections
5) acne
Also, there was fungi, plant pathogens, DNA from animals, and even minute amounts of diphtheria and anthrax.

I don't have a link to the study and I'm not looking for one because I think it's common sense that dollar bills naturally contain lots of different kinds of bacteria.

Is it safe to put tips on the table in restaurants? The waiters then pick up the tips with their bare hands and continue serving customers.

The health department is fussy about how the kitchen is kept, it must be just so, but don't they have anything to say about the filthy money situation?

Judging by the many hang-ups you have, my suggestion would be for you to never eat out.
Then you don't have to leave a tip.
Do not handle any money. Use plastic (credit card or debit card) when you have to pay for anything or write a check.

When you eat at home (so you won't get any of the above-mentioned deadly diseases),
use plastic throwaway utensils, paper plates and napkins, etc.
That way you won't have to touch bacteria infested dishes.

[jebartle]

I'm always a day late and a "dirty dollar" short!



Hey, Bare.
I'll take all the dirty mopney I can lay my hands on!

[jblum315]

yikes......I took a drink out of my garden hose without thinking,!!!

Your garden hose water is exactly the same as water inside your house. The sprinkler water is recycled water

[NYGUY]

Please send all your filthy money to me!!!..:loco:

[blueash]

Your garden hose water is exactly the same as water inside your house. The sprinkler water is recycled water

Ah but the question was is water from the garden hose going to kill you perhaps even more quickly than touching a dollar bill.

Harmful Chemicals: Is Your Garden Hose Toxic? | TIME.com (http://ideas.time.com/2012/08/02/is-your-garden-hose-toxic/)

[Barefoot]

Hey, Bare.
I'll take all the dirty mopney I can lay my hands on!

Please send all your filthy money to me!!!

Sorry NYGUY, I already sent all my dirty US dollars to Bonanza.

[Bogie Shooter]

Or the germs on the money could replace this.......(from an earlier post)


"What about short chain fatty acids? Short chain fatty acids are said to be good for your colon. I'm not worried about this because it's synthesized by intestinal bacteria from dietary fiber. (A vegan diet provides lots of fiber.)"

[Villages PL]

Because salmonella is not everywhere?

Don't answer that. It's a rhetorical question.

So your point is that salmonella can't be on a dollar bill?

[Villages PL]

Apart from requiring everyone everywhere to wear HazMat type outfits, what does the OP propose to solve or mitigate this supposed problem?

I'm not proposing anything, just opening this up for discussion. I remember letters (to the editor of the Daily Sun) with complaints about people in restaurants wearing hats and/or putting their hats on the table. They said a hat on the table where people are going to eat is disgusting.

I also remember complaints about dogs being allowed at outside restaurant tables. They claimed it wasn't sanitary.

So that made me wonder what the reaction would be to money on the table.

[Villages PL]

I always make it a point not to put my spoon, fork, knife on the table, but on a napkin. Usually after each customer they wipe off the table and seat with the same rag which is used who knows where else. I'm not a germ freak and realize that some exposure is a good thing, but just have a thing about putting my fork on that table that just wiped off the seats. The rags are probably used all day and without disinfectant.

I do the same thing because I assume the napkin represents a safety zone. But the napkin is handled by two different people before it gets to the table. One person wraps up the utensils and then the waiter picks it up and delivers it to the table (after handling money).

[Villages PL]

Since most people use Visa or Debit cards, I don't think dirty money is a big problem for most of us.

Do you tip the waiter with Visa or debit card?

But it might be a good idea for a new restaurant for germaphobics - a restaurant where everyone wears HazMat suits and everything is sterilized multiple times. :evil6:

What about people who have a compromised immune system? I know people in The Villages who have received organ transplants and are taking anti-rejection drugs. People with artificial joints sometimes take antibiotics when they go to the dentist. Some people might be receiving chemotherapy.

[Villages PL]

Be interesting to find out what gunk is on credit cards. I know they did a study on cell phones and found a public toilet was cleaner. If you're really that worried about bacteria and the like suggest you invest in a hazmat suit. It really is the only way of guaranteeing a sterile environment. Sorry, there are far more important things to worry about in this world.

I don't worry about it any more than anyone else. I just thought it would be interesting to see what the reactions would be. For example, how would most people react to (non-barking) dogs being allowed in restaurants? What might the objection be? Hmmm?

[Villages PL]

Years ago we were traveling in a motorhome. We hooked up our water as usual with a waterhose from our RV to the campgrounds water supply. The water tasted funny for the next couple of days. It wasen't until we went to disconnect the waterhose that we looked inside the hose and saw one half of a lizard dangling inside it!

Ha! That's a funny story. I can relate to drinking from a water hose.

When I first moved to Florida, I came to the state in a small Scotty travel trailer. I owned land in central Florida that didn't have any utilities. After I parked the trailer, a neighbor offered to hook me up to his water-well with a water hose, so I accepted. It was quite a distance (crossing a road) and I often wondered about the quality of the water. But there are times when one cannot be fussy.

[Villages PL]

Your garden hose water is exactly the same as water inside your house. The sprinkler water is recycled water

All the water on earth has been recycled over the past 3.5 billion years, since the very beginning when fossil bacteria covered the earth. Imagine all the waste products from animals and humans over those many years.

[Villages PL]

Please send all your filthy money to me!!!..:loco:

My money isn't filthy; it's just other people's money that's filthy. :D

[Villages PL]

Ah but the question was is water from the garden hose going to kill you perhaps even more quickly than touching a dollar bill.

Harmful Chemicals: Is Your Garden Hose Toxic? | TIME.com (http://ideas.time.com/2012/08/02/is-your-garden-hose-toxic/)

Holy cow! I never would have guessed it could be that bad. Thanks for the link.

[dbussone]

Do you tip the waiter with Visa or debit card?



What about people who have a compromised immune system? I know people in The Villages who have received organ transplants and are taking anti-rejection drugs. People with artificial joints sometimes take antibiotics when they go to the dentist. Some people might be receiving chemotherapy.

If everyone, including the wait staff is wearing a hazmat suit, it shouldn't be an issue. They will never come in contact with the money left for the tip.

[Villages PL]

If everyone, including the wait staff is wearing a hazmat suit, it shouldn't be an issue. They will never come in contact with the money left for the tip.

But the suit will be contaminated.

[dbussone]

But the suit will be contaminated.

Yes, but you won't touch the contaminated part which is the outside of the suit.

[tomwed]

If Jumping to Conclusions was an Olympic event, I think I'd at least get a try-out.

[dbussone]

If Jumping to Conclusions was an Olympic event, I think I'd at least get a try-out.

You are probably being named to the first team.

[graciegirl]

How does anyone ever know where the last person has had his hands before he touched the keyboard of the computer at the Library?

[dbussone]

How does anyone ever know where the last person has had his hands before he touched the keyboard of the computer at the Library?


One doesn't. Oops.

[tomwed]

How does anyone ever know where the last person has had his hands before he touched the keyboard of the computer at the Library?
We had one of those sanitizer stations in our High School library for that very same reason. We tried not to think about it too much. This came easier to me than the women who worked there.

[Barefoot]

Do you tip the waiter with Visa or debit card?
Visa.

How does anyone ever know where the last person has had his hands before he touched the keyboard of the computer at the Library?

Good point! I read an article saying keyboards on public computers are hugely infested with bacteria. :eek: I avoid them!

[Wandatime]

A little bit of bacteria is good for you. Strengthens the immune system.

A little bit of a silly thread is good for you. Strengthens the muscles that cause your eyes to roll.

[Barefoot]

A little bit of bacteria is good for you. Strengthens the immune system.
A little bit of a silly thread is good for you. Strengthens the muscles that cause your eyes to roll.

:bigbow:

[CFrance]

This is a funny thread!

[Villages PL]

Visa.



Good point! I read an article saying keyboards on public computers are hugely infested with bacteria. :eek: I avoid them!

When you go grocery shopping, do you use the hand-sanitizer to wipe down the handle on the grocery cart? (I see a lot of people do that but I think it's a bad idea.)

[deestatham]

We ate dirt when we were kids and we're still alive!!

[graciegirl]

Germs are all around us, They are on our skins and in our mouths and on our bottoms. Most of them are not terribly dangerous unless our immune system is compromised fighting something else.

Germy carts and dirty filthy luger is USUALLY much ado about nothing.

We seem to get sick in December when the folks with the "new" germs for this year come and join us.

I think it wise to get flu shots, pneumonia shots and shingles shots at our age, wash our hands now and then and bathe regularly. Avoid folks who are obviously sick, eat a healthy diet, my version of that is different from the OP, see your doctor, follow his advice and enjoy every day we are given.

And enjoy our obsessions, like TOTV.

[Villages PL]

A little bit of bacteria is good for you. Strengthens the immune system.

A little bit of a silly thread is good for you. Strengthens the muscles that cause your eyes to roll.

Wanda, just for you, I finally decided to try to find a link to the study. Here it is; enjoy!

Researchers find thousands of bacteria living on cash | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/04/21/researchers-find-thousands-bacteria-living-on-dollar-bills/)

[graciegirl]

bada boom. bada bing.

[KeepingItReal]

5) acne

Is it safe to put tips on the table in restaurants? The waiters then pick up the tips with their bare hands and continue serving customers.



It's OK to to do anything you want to do at anytime you want to do it, haven't you heard..

[Barefoot]

Good point! I read an article saying keyboards on public computers are hugely infested with bacteria. :eek: I avoid them!

How about keyboards on public computers at the Library? :shocked:

[dbussone]

When you go grocery shopping, do you use the hand-sanitizer to wipe down the handle on the grocery cart? (I see a lot of people do that but I think it's a bad idea.)


Why would this be a bad idea in your opinion?

[CFrance]

Why would this be a bad idea in your opinion?
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn: It just gets better.

[Shimpy]

How about keyboards on public computers at the Library? :shocked:

It's been said that the most dirty thing in your motel/hotel room is the remote for the TV....think about this one.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Really? This is a question and a discussion? People have left money on tables in restaurants for over 100 years and I don't recall anyone ever getting sick from it.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Really? This is a question and a discussion? People have left money on tables in restaurants for over 100 years and I don't recall anyone ever getting sick from it.
Do we just have too much time on our hands that we sit around and think up this stuff?

[CFrance]

Really? This is a question and a discussion? People have left money on tables in restaurants for over 100 years and I don't recall anyone ever getting sick from it.
Do we just have too much time on our hands that we sit around and think up this stuff?
Well, somebody does since it was in a syndicated newspaper column and also on fox news.

Don't ruin the fun!

[Wandatime]

Wanda, just for you, I finally decided to try to find a link to the study. Here it is; enjoy!

Researchers find thousands of bacteria living on cash | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/04/21/researchers-find-thousands-bacteria-living-on-dollar-bills/)

Good Lord, I am surprised bank tellers are not keeling over by the thousands.

[tomwed]

When I was little, if food fell down or was dirty, you would just "Kiss it up to God". I forgot about that until now. Do you think all those germs I picked up back then are helping me now?

God sure had a lot more to do in the 50's and 60's in my neighborhood.

[Villages PL]

Why would this be a bad idea in your opinion?

Why do I think hand sanitizers are a bad idea? First of all, they may be appropriate in certain limited situations where ordinary soap & water is not available , but I haven't totally made up my mind on that.

I think the regular use of hand sanitizers at home or while shopping can be a bad idea for the same reason that the overuse of antibiotics is a bad idea. The sanitizing chemicals indiscriminately kill both the good and bad bacteria at the same time and we need the good bacteria for healthy skin and for a healthy immune system. Also, bad forms of bacteria may develop resistance to the chemicals and then multiply as "superbugs".

For more information, here's a link:

Hand Sanitizers: Good or Bad? - The Holistic Mama (http://www.theholisticmama.com/hand-sanitizers-good-or-bad/)

[CFrance]

I don't use hand sanitizers at home for those exact reasons. However, if there's no disinfectant to wipe down the shopping cart handle with, I will use a sanitizer while grocery shopping. Too many people handling the carts.

My friend, whose profession dictated that she visit some very filthy, insect-infested homes in order to do evaluations of children at risk of learning disabilities, used it all the time during work, with good reason. I figured with my limited use we came out even.

[dbussone]

Why do I think hand sanitizers are a bad idea? First of all, they may be appropriate in certain limited situations where ordinary soap & water is not available , but I haven't totally made up my mind on that.

I think the regular use of hand sanitizers at home or while shopping can be a bad idea for the same reason that the overuse of antibiotics is a bad idea. The sanitizing chemicals indiscriminately kill both the good and bad bacteria at the same time and we need the good bacteria for healthy skin and for a healthy immune system. Also, bad forms of bacteria may develop resistance to the chemicals and then multiply as "superbugs".

For more information, here's a link:

Hand Sanitizers: Good or Bad? - The Holistic Mama (http://www.theholisticmama.com/hand-sanitizers-good-or-bad/)

I would agree with you IF the sanitizer included an antibiotic. That would be bad for the same reason that soaps with antibiotics are bad - as you note. However,most sanitizers use a high alcohol base (I think 70+%) as the sanitizer's primary method of dealing with germs. Alcohol based sanitizers should not create any resistance in bacteria. What one must be careful of is to select a sanitizer with a high enough alcohol content, otherwise all you are doing is sloshing the bacteria around on your hands without any cleansing occurring.

I use antibiotic free soaps when possible, and keep sanitizer in our cars, golf cart & and places where soap is generally unavailable.

[Villages PL]

Good Lord, I am surprised bank tellers are not keeling over by the thousands.

Come to think of it, the last time I walked into my local bank, I didn't see any of the regular tellers that were there before. Hmmm! :1rotfl:

But, seriously, I think the tellers will be just fine as long as they don't lick their fingers before counting the money. :icon_wink:

The letter that was sent to Annie's Mailbox came from a woman who complained that her college educated husband had the habit of licking his fingers to count money. That's why Annie came up with the study, she wanted to prove a point to the finger-licking husband.

[dbussone]

Come to think of it, the last time I walked into my local bank, I didn't see any of the regular tellers that were there before. Hmmm! :1rotfl:

But, seriously, I think the tellers will be just fine as long as they don't lick their fingers before counting the money. :icon_wink:

The letter that was sent to Annie's Mailbox came from a woman who complained that her college educated husband had the habit of licking his fingers to count money. That's why Annie came up with the study, she wanted to prove a point to the finger-licking husband.

Now that's a bad habit.

[Villages PL]

Alcohol based sanitizers should not create any resistance in bacteria.

Can you provide a link to a study to back that up?

[dbussone]

Can you provide a link to a study to back that up?

Here is a link to a WHO site that states alcohol based products do not cause resistance in bacteria. and in the long run the use of alcohol based sanitizers helps reduce the spread of resistant bacteria.
http://www.who.int/gpsc/tools/faqs/abhr2/en/

[Barefoot]

Good Lord, I am surprised bank tellers are not keeling over by the thousands.

Can you provide a link to a study to back that up? :evil6:

[Barefoot]

How does anyone ever know where the last person has had his hands before he touched the keyboard of the computer at the Library?


Good point! I read an article saying keyboards on public computers are hugely infested with bacteria. :eek: I avoid them!

How about keyboards on public computers at the Library? :shocked:

Hey Villages PL - How about computer keyboards at Libraries? Do you wipe the keys with sanitizer?

[dbussone]

Can you provide a link to a study to back that up? :evil6:

Do I really have to? Oops, did you mean that for someone else.

[Wandatime]

Can you provide a link to a study to back that up? :evil6:

Not a study but a very interesting article:

HAZMAT teams collect messy money from Lake City bank | News - Home (http://www.news4jax.com/news/hazmat-collects-messy-money-from-lake-city-bank/29057874)

From now on I am wiping down my debit card with an alcohol laced sanitized disposable something before I hand it to the waiter and after I get it back. No more disgusting money for me.

Who am I kidding? I have been known to eat an apple without washing it.

[Barefoot]

I have been known to eat an apple without washing it.

Hey Wanda, I know some people that actually wash bananas after they peel them. :ohdear:

If confessions are in order, I've been know to pat my dog and then shake hands with someone. :evil6:

[CFrance]

Hey Wanda, I know some people that actually wash bananas after they peel them. :ohdear:

If confessions are in order, I've been know to pat my dog and then shake hands with someone. :evil6:
Oh no... I always wash my hands after shaking before petting my dog!

[dbussone]

Here is a link to a WHO site that states alcohol based products do not cause resistance in bacteria. and in the long run the use of alcohol based sanitizers helps reduce the spread of resistant bacteria.
http://www.who.int/gpsc/tools/faqs/abhr2/en/

VPL - if you've had a chance to review the website information I'd be interested in your comments. Did this change your opinion about alcohol based hand sanitizers?

[CFrance]

VPL - if you've had a chance to review the website information I'd be interested in your comments. Did this change your opinion about alcohol based hand sanitizers?
It changed mine! Thanks for the info.

[Villages PL]

Hey Villages PL - How about computer keyboards at Libraries? Do you wipe the keys with sanitizer?

Do you kiss your dog?

[Villages PL]

VPL - if you've had a chance to review the website information I'd be interested in your comments. Did this change your opinion about alcohol based hand sanitizers?

I did review it and it did change my opinion. After double checking (Ask MetaFilter - Bacteria resistance) I'm reasonably satisfied that alcohol-based sanitizers won't contribute to resistance.

But, personally, I won't use hand sanitizers because it doesn't satisfy my requirements. I won't wash my hands with an alcohol based sanitizer anymore than I would gargle with an alcohol based mouth wash. It kills both good and bad bacteria indiscriminately.

Also, I don't think it's good for the skin and may promote skin cancer.

And the biggest reason is that I don't need hand sanitizers. Whether at home, supermarket, or restaurant, there's usually a restroom with soap and water available. And most of the time soap isn't even needed, say the experts.

[dbussone]

I did review it and it did change my opinion. After double checking (Ask MetaFilter - Bacteria resistance) I'm reasonably satisfied that alcohol-based sanitizers won't contribute to resistance.

But, personally, I won't use hand sanitizers because it doesn't satisfy my requirements. I won't wash my hands with an alcohol based sanitizer anymore than I would gargle with an alcohol based mouth wash. It kills both good and bad bacteria indiscriminately.

Also, I don't think it's good for the skin and may promote skin cancer.

And the biggest reason is that I don't need hand sanitizers. Whether at home, supermarket, or restaurant, there's usually a restroom with soap and water available. And most of the time soap isn't even needed, say the experts.

I appreciate your opinion but disagree with you on several fronts. I've not ever heard about sanitizers being linked to cancer. And the soap in many public restrooms contains an anti-bacterial agent. Not sure at all that I concur with washing hands with water only. any links to support that?

[Villages PL]

I appreciate your opinion but disagree with you on several fronts. I've not ever heard about sanitizers being linked to cancer.

Do you have to hear about something first in order to exercise caution? Even if it doesn't promote cancer, I don't want to treat my skin that way. Our skin contains natural oils and good bacteria for a protective purpose.
(Over how many decades did the medical community say that a person's appendix served no purpose? Because they never heard of it serving a purpose.)
And the soap in many public restrooms contains an anti-bacterial agent.

Good to know, so it's a good thing I almost never use public restroom soap.


Not sure at all that I concur with washing hands with water only. any links to support that?

I believe I read that in a recent book, "Missing Microbes" by Martin J. Blaser M.D.

Obviously, if your hands are soiled for whatever reason or you are going to be handling/preparing food, it's a good idea to use soap and water. Otherwise, most of the time there's no need for soap.

[dbussone]

Do you have to hear about something first in order to exercise caution? Even if it doesn't promote cancer, I don't want to treat my skin that way. Our skin contains natural oils and good bacteria for a protective purpose.
(Over how many decades did the medical community say that a person's appendix served no purpose? Because they never heard of it serving a purpose.)


Good to know, so it's a good thing I almost never use public restroom soap.




I believe I read that in a recent book, "Missing Microbes" by Martin J. Blaser M.D.

Obviously, if your hands are soiled for whatever reason or you are going to be handling/preparing food, it's a good idea to use soap and water. Otherwise, most of the time there's no need for soap.

Thanks for your comments. I completely disagree with your last comment, but understand your opinion on the first.

[CFrance]

Do you kiss your dog?
Why don't you answer her question instead of changing the subject? It would seem that your reluctance to buy your own computer trumps your concern about germs on public keyboards. This doesn't seem to square with your overall concern about germs.

[tomwed]

Do Doctors still scrub up before surgery?

[dbussone]

Do Doctors still scrub up before surgery?

The ones I know do. Can't speak for the others but I bet they do, and hopefully with more than water.

[tomwed]

People who work in a kitchen or serve food, do they still have that bathroom sign that says "Employees Must Wash Hands"?
Or has it been revised "Employees Must Wash Hands with or without Soap."

[dbussone]

People who work in a kitchen or serve food, do they still have that bathroom sign that says "Employees Must Wash Hands"?
Or has it been revised "Employees Must Wash Hands with or without Soap."


Tom - the last time I checked it was as we both remember. I wonder who thinks otherwise.

[Barefoot]

Do Doctors still scrub up before surgery?

The ones I know do. Can't speak for the others but I bet they do, and hopefully with more than water.

People who work in a kitchen or serve food, do they still have that bathroom sign that says "Employees Must Wash Hands"?
Or has it been revised "Employees Must Wash Hands with or without Soap."

I sure hope that doctors and food preparers wash their hands thoroughly and often with SOAP.
I personally think it is poppycock to fear soap and water.

[Bonanza]

Why don't you answer her question instead of changing the subject? It would seem that your reluctance to buy your own computer trumps your concern about germs on public keyboards. This doesn't seem to square with your overall concern about germs.

Yes, why don't you have your own computer??? You certainly use one often enough to warrant owning one, as opposed to having to go out and use a public one.

And what about germs, bacteria and God knows what else that is found in these public places as well as on the keyboards.

Just what IS your response???

[dbussone]

I sure hope that doctors and food preparers wash their hands thoroughly and often with SOAP.
I personally think it is poppycock to fear soap and water.

Bare - I wouldn't worry too much about docs. They have hand washing technique drilled into their heads 24/7. Many hospitals even have infection control practitioners following staff around to monitor hand washing technique.

Now food preparers are another issue altogether. I'm afraid I'm a bit OCD about them.

[Villages PL]

Thanks for your comments. I completely disagree with your last comment, but understand your opinion on the first.

Well, now I wonder where the proof is that one must always use soap, regardless of the situation. Do you have a link for that?

Also, you have said that the soaps in many public restrooms contain an anti-bacterial agent. How would you know that? Do you have a link for that?

[Villages PL]

Why don't you answer her question instead of changing the subject? It would seem that your reluctance to buy your own computer trumps your concern about germs on public keyboards. This doesn't seem to square with your overall concern about germs.

Evidently, you haven't bothered to read this whole thread in its totality. Otherwise, you would know what my position is on bacteria/germs.

[dbussone]

Well, now I wonder where the proof is that one must always use soap, regardless of the situation. Do you have a link for that?

Also, you have said that the soaps in many public restrooms contain an anti-bacterial agent. How would you know that? Do you have a link for that?

Time for you to provide the links and studies. You're the one who stated it wasn't always necessary to wash with soap as I recall. Back that up please

[Villages PL]

Do Doctors still scrub up before surgery?

There's a whole staff of assistants in the operating room. How about the person who hands instruments to the doctor?

The reason I ask is because I watched my hygienist put gloves on last time I went for a cleaning. She first touched many different items in the room, including her computer keyboard etc. Then when she was ready to get started, she pulled hard to get the gloves out of the box. In doing so, she put her hands all over the gloves before putting them on.

Is that the way operating room assistants do it in the operating room? How would we know? All it takes is one weak link in the chain.

[dbussone]

There's a whole staff of assistants in the operating room. How about the person who hands instruments to the doctor?

The reason I ask is because I watched my hygienist put gloves on last time I went for a cleaning. She first touched many different items in the room, including her computer keyboard etc. Then when she was ready to get started, she pulled hard to get the gloves out of the box. In doing so, she put her hands all over the gloves before putting them on.

Is that the way operating room assistants do it in the operating room? How would we know? All it takes is one weak link in the chain.

There are different reasons for gloves. In the case of an OR team, they wear gloves to maintain sterility and avoid/prevent patient infections. For most dental procedures the staff is not generally concerned about maintaining a sterile field. The gloves and face shields they wear are to protect them primarily from YOUR germs.

[Villages PL]

Just what IS your response???

I would never allow a dog to lounge on my sofa.

[Villages PL]

Many hospitals even have infection control practitioners following staff around to monitor hand washing technique.

Many? How many? Do you have a link for that?

[dbussone]

Many? How many? Do you have a link for that?

Sorry you feel the need to change the subject when it doesn't suit your need to respond to a question. Mother Earth doesn't qualify as a scientifically based journal or source.

And the answer to your question does not require a link - I know the answer from personal experience. That is personal, not anecdotal, experience having worked in healthcare for more than 40 years.

Now, about your theory that water alone is satisfactory for hand washing. I'd recommend that you look at the World Health Organization website, or the Cleveland Clinic or any number of other scientifically based sites.

[Villages PL]

Time for you to provide the links and studies. You're the one who stated it wasn't always necessary to wash with soap as I recall. Back that up please

No, if you're so sure that you're right, that one must always use soap regardless of the situation, you must have some proof.

It seems that I'm not the one with an unreasonable fear of "germs".

[Villages PL]

There are different reasons for gloves. In the case of an OR team, they wear gloves to maintain sterility and avoid/prevent patient infections. For most dental procedures the staff is not generally concerned about maintaining a sterile field. The gloves and face shields they wear are to protect them primarily from YOUR germs.

I believe the face shield and gloves serve a duel purpose. Patients must be protected from the bacteria of previous patients.

[dbussone]

It seems that I'm not the one with an unreasonable fear of "germs".

I have no idea what this refers to.

[Polar Bear]

I believe the face shield and gloves serve a duel purpose...
Do you have a link for that?

...Patients must be protected from the bacteria of previous patients.

Do you have a link for that?

[dbussone]

Do you have a link for that?



Do you have a link for that?

I doubt it. I doubt it.

[Villages PL]

Sorry you feel the need to change the subject when it doesn't suit your need to respond to a question. Mother Earth doesn't qualify as a scientifically based journal or source.

From what I read on Mother Earth, it was very scientific and up-to-date. For example, she knew that bacteria is very much involved in the functioning of our immune system. What did she say that you disagree with?

And the answer to your question does not require a link - I know the answer from personal experience. That is personal, not anecdotal, experience having worked in healthcare for more than 40 years.

Sorry to inform you that this is the internet where anyone can claim to have 40 years experience in healthcare. That doesn't save you from having to back things up.

Now, about your theory that water alone is satisfactory for hand washing. I'd recommend that you look at the World Health Organization website, or the Cleveland Clinic or any number of other scientifically based sites.

Context is everything and they don't give any context for individual hand washing situations.

[dbussone]

Were you ever a boxer? You are superb at bobbing and weaving.

[Villages PL]

Do you have a link for that?



Do you have a link for that?

Do you have a link that says patients do not need to be protected from the bacteria left behind by previous patients?

[Polar Bear]

Do you have a link that says patients do not need to be protected from the bacteria left behind by previous patients?

So it's true...you will ask for a link regardless of what somebody posts. And only other people need to provide links.

[dbussone]

So it's true...you will ask for a link regardless of what somebody posts. And only other people need to require links.

And when you do it will be rejected.

[dbussone]

When you say you have 40 years of experience, isn't that a form of "bobbing and weaving" - a form of evasion?

No, I actually have that much experience. What is your experience base in healthcare?

[Polar Bear]

...you accuse me of asking for too many links.
Yep. And I stand by it.

[dbussone]

I just told you this is the internet where anyone can say anything and you don't get it!

I get it.

[Polar Bear]

And you also stand by not contributing anything of substance to this thread.

What you say has nothing whatsoever to do with where I stand on anything.

[Polar Bear]

... you're standing on thin ice...

Plenty thick to withstand your weight.