Amenities - Sustainability at Build Out

[JohnM]

This weekend we had an interesting discussion with friends (non-Villagers) about the The Villages and the lifestyle. They were very impressed with the lifestyle, but questioned whether the level of amenities would be sustainable once the developer left. It is an interesting question. As I understand it, the "amenities" (executive golf courses, rec centers, regional rec centers, rec programs, etc.) are owned and maintained by the developer and we pay a monthly amenities fee to use them. The country clubs and golf courses are also owned by the developer, but are funded through fees charged those using them even though we as Villagers are all "members". Entertainment in the squares is funded by the businesses in the squares. The infrastructure (curbs, gutters, street lights, transportation trails, storm water systems, streets?, landscaping?) are paid initially by the bond and thereafter by the maintenance assessments.

Are the fees being charged sufficient to maintain them into the future? Is the developer subsidizing the costs in order to sell houses? What happens when the developer has no more houses to sell? Will the fees skyrocket?

John

[Russ_Boston]

This is a very interesting question for us future TVers. I don't believe that the developer currently underwrites the amenities and has a process whereby the golf courses and rec centers are sold back to the CDD's which are then run by a board which budgets for expenses every year. Is that close?

I know there was a recent lawsuit that dealt with the future amenity costs. Search on this site for that info.

[downeaster]

Good question, John.

This is a good site for opinions but not necessarily for facts.

I would suggest attending one of the meetings conducted by the CDD that cover your questions along with other information important to residents (and potential residents).

Call the CDD administrative office for times and place of these meetings.

Hope this helps.

DC

[JohnM]

My understanding is that the executive golf courses (not the championship courses) and the rec centers are eventually sold to the two special CDDs, i.e., VCCDD and SLCDD. These two CDDs are run by boards elected by the property owners in each CDD in accord with FL law. There are no residents in these two CDDs as these CDDs consist of the commercial properties. See:

http://thevillagesfl.blogspot.com/2005/09/who-owns-recreation-centers-executive.html

If my understanding is correct, the developer controls (and will continue to control) the VCCDD and SLCDD and hence the rec centers and executive golf courses.

I have no data on whether or not the developer subsidizes the costs of the amenities. I have heard that the amenities fees cover the costs, but I have no data. It certainly would be reassuring if the amenities fees paid the costs of the amenities. Keep in mind that there are a variety of "amenities" and are apparently funded differently (golf courses and rec centers by amenities fees, country clubs and championship courses funded by fees charged, entertainment in the squares by the businesses, other amenities???).

Anyone have financial data?

John

[Muncle]

Going to the Thursday CDD course is instructive and everyone should do so. However, you can also get some info from the CDD web site, http://www.districtgov.org/

I also strongly recommend sending emails to the appropriate staff member with specific questions. Sometimes you just cannot find the right subject matter in the regular pages. I've found they try to answer as quickly as possible. http://www.districtgov.org/vccdd/staff.asp

Staff Directory (link to their email on the web page)
Janet Y. Tutt District Manager

Charles H. Lynn Deputy District Manager

John B. Rohan Assistant District Manager

Monica Andersen Community Standards Director
(Architectural Review & Deed Compliance)

David Miles Finance Director

Ray Peterson Village Watch Director

Carl Kemp Neighborhood Watch Director

Sam Wartinbee District Property Maintenance Director

Mike Tucker Public Safety Director

Eva M. Rey Director of Purchasing and Support Service

[livsea2]

My understanding is that the executive golf courses (not the championship courses) and the rec centers are eventually sold to the two special CDDs, i.e., VCCDD and SLCDD. These two CDDs are run by boards elected by the property owners in each CDD in accord with FL law. There are no residents in these two CDDs as these CDDs consist of the commercial properties. See:

http://thevillagesfl.blogspot.com/2005/09/who-owns-recreation-centers-executive.html

If my understanding is correct, the developer controls (and will continue to control) the VCCDD and SLCDD and hence the rec centers and executive golf courses.

I have no data on whether or not the developer subsidizes the costs of the amenities. I have heard that the amenities fees cover the costs, but I have no data. It certainly would be reassuring if the amenities fees paid the costs of the amenities. Keep in mind that there are a variety of "amenities" and are apparently funded differently (golf courses and rec centers by amenities fees, country clubs and championship courses funded by fees charged, entertainment in the squares by the businesses, other amenities???).

Anyone have financial data?


If I read this linked information correctly. The "special CDD's do not have members elected by the residents. Rather they are appointed by the developer forever. The amenities are controlled by the developer but paid for by the residents. This is the biggest concern I have about buying in the villages. I probably will anyway but the "special CDD's concern me greatly.

[villages07]

First, a common definition...amenities are the exec golf courses, rec centers, pools, neighborhood watch....these are supported by our monthly amenity fees.

The aforementioned lawsuit (for areas north of 466) had several outcomes...one, the developer paid an agreed upon figure into, for want of a better term, the capital reserve fund for amenities North of 466 and also required establishment of a resident-elected amenity advisory committee. This committee will advise the commercial district on amenity upgrades, usage policies, and priority projects. The commercial district (VCCDD) will still be the governing body. A similar settlement and amenity advisory committee is anticipated for areas S of 466.

The amenity advisory committee is meeting on July 9th at 1pm at Savannah Center. This is an open meeting and I hope to attend. The whole amenity budget process has been a bit of a mystery to me...I have not been able to find any docs on the web that show income, expenditures, and capital reserves. Right now, the process works pretty well. We get, in my opinion, a tremendous value for our monthly amenity fee. My hope is that this will continue beyond buildout.

As Russ stated earlier, the commercial districts buy amenity properties from the developer. We, the residents, pay for these facilities via our fees. About 60% of our fee goes towards the initial purchase of amenity facilities and 40% towards ongoing maintenance and operation. I'm not sure how much, if any, of our amenity fee goes into a long term capital reserve fund for future large scale renovations.

[JohnM]

Where do things like the following fall and who pays for them:

Landscaping in the common areas

Manned gates

Clubs, e.g., the Woodworking Club with $1 million in equipment

Lifetime Learning College

Street maintenance - Morse, Buena Vista, etc. AND gated neighborhoods

Etc.

Anyone know?

John

[JohnM]

I also strongly recommend sending emails to the appropriate staff member with specific questions.


I forwarded my questions to Janet Tutt.

[villages07]

Where do things like the following fall and who pays for them:

Landscaping in the common areas
>>>annual CDD maintenance fees

Manned gates
>>> village watch, via your amenity fee

Clubs, e.g., the Woodworking Club with $1 million in equipment
>>> use of facilities for meetings is 'free'...supported by amenity fees; otherwise, self-sustaining via club/membership fees; Woodshop, I recall reading recently, has a substantial membership fee (i.e. maybe $200/year???), Developer donated building/land

Lifetime Learning College
>>> Self-sustaining thru fees; not sure if the developer subsidizes this at all

Street maintenance - Morse, Buena Vista, etc. AND gated neighborhoods
>>> Good question; the answer is probably different for each county; in Sumter, County is supposed to maintain all roads (that's what we were told) but lately have been reading stories about exactly what the county has committed to; maybe just main streets (Canal, Buena Vista, Morse, etc); Villa roads are CDD responsibility.
Etc.

Anyone know?

John


John...these are the answers to the best of my knowledge from things I have read or heard. It'll be interesting to hear the 'official' answers you get from Ms Tutt. All good questions.

[drdodge]

I was told by Janet Tutts office that the amminity fee goes directly to the developer and since he has a private corporation he does not have to open his books to anyone to show how the money is spent. Go to the district office in the Laurel Manor area and you will probably get the same answer

drd

[JohnM]

I forwarded my questions to Janet Tutt.


Janet Tutt responded quickly:

"Are the fees being charged sufficient to maintain them into the future? The simple answer is = Yes. I believe the VCCDD is a perfect example, as we are putting over a million dollars a year into reserves annually.

Is the developer subsidizing the costs in order to sell houses? The simple answer is = no. The districts are self funded through amenity fees and other fees charged by the District.

What happens when the developer has no more houses to sell? Will the fees skyrocket? The simple answer, again is = no. Your amenity fees are tied to the CPI. And, the assessments are controlled through the resident elected board (and all will be transitioned – Districts 1 thru 4 are already resident qualified elector elected positions)."

And she welcomed additional questions...

John

[Russ_Boston]

Music to my ears John. Thanks!