Religious Freedom Law

[Guest]

Pence defends religious freedom law: 'Absolutely not' a mistake | MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/indiana-gov-mike-pence-defends-religious-freedom-law-not-mistake-clarify?cid=sm_tw_msnbc)



Indiana's Governor Mike Pence repeatedly dodged questions about whether his recently signed Religious Freedom Law would discriminate against gays and lesbians on ABC's This Week with George Stephanopolus. He was asked several times a yes or no question, and each time wiggled out of answering by giving the history of the law or other total BS.

Pence was forced to try to defend this abhorrent law after many businesses, corporations, sports teams and other states decried the law as being discriminatory; including the NCAA, the NBA, the NFL, Apple, Angie's List, the Chamber of Commerce, and many others.

The new law is projected to cost Indiana tens of millions of dollars as corporations, large and small, are threatening to pull out of the state, canceling conventions, and not doing business there.

This law allows anyone, based on their religious beliefs, to refuse service to anyone. Even former Gov Jan Brewer, R-AZ, had the good sense to veto a similar bill a few years ago or risk losing the super bowl. And now Arkansas is poised to pass a similar bill (not that AR will ever host the super bowl).

The best way to fight these discriminatory practices are what's being done now...hit them in the pocketbook.

[Guest]

Laws like that are one step closer to Sharia Law in this country that used to believe in religious freedom. Very sad and antiquated. Too many law makers are choosing to put their oun personal beliefs above that of their constituents.

[Guest]

Before believing everything you hear, you might want to take a look at the other side of this story -

Explaining Indiana's Religious Freedom Law (http://sethdavidmiller.com/2015/03/27/explaining-indianas-religious-freedom-law/)

[Guest]

Before believing everything you hear, you might want to take a look at the other side of this story -

Explaining Indiana's Religious Freedom Law (http://sethdavidmiller.com/2015/03/27/explaining-indianas-religious-freedom-law/)

I did read that very carfully thank you. It's showing favortism to a religious belief at the expence of other Americans. Try to remember, this is America, with a constitution that gave ALL Americans religious freedom, not just christion beliefs. :wave:

[Guest]

'Shameless': Indiana Gov. Defends Controversial Religious Freedom Law - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/shameless-indiana-gov-rebuts-attack-religious-freedom-law-n332166)


Governor Mike Pence said he would not add sexual orientation to a protected class in state civil rights cases, making very clear which group of people this law is discriminating against.

[Guest]

I want to thank Governor Pence for his political courage. Clearly this law is a rebuke to Obama's attempts to over reach to try and prevent people's rights to their religious practices. All religions are equally protected and recognized

Religions except of Muslims embraced gay people but do not embrace their acts and rightly so

The gay community levels these specious claims of discrimination because they believe a secular country is more conducive to their way of life and hence will do anything to remove religion from the equation.

Opponents criticize that Pence signing of this law was out of the public's view but it was not.

However Obamacare was passed without one Republican vote and no one even reading what was in it. he has conducted his fiats in secret including Berdahls release and the Iran nuclear deal .

Rule of Law will prevail and opponents need to stop their promulgating misinformation.


Personal Best Regards:

[Guest]

Conservatives Admit The Truth On Indiana 'Religious Liberty' Bill | ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/01/06/3608286/indiana-license-to-discriminate/)


Indiana legislators openly admit that this bill was designed to discriminate against the LGBT community. They say 'you may be able to marry in IN, but we will make sure you are discriminated against'.

It will be a big price to pay to lose the NCAA and others just so some Christian woman doesn't have to bake a wedding cake for two men.

Other states, including Michigan, decided these laws were just too risky, but not Indiana. Don't come around moaning and groaning when you lose millions of dollars in lost revenue.

[Guest]

Conservatives Admit The Truth On Indiana 'Religious Liberty' Bill | ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/01/06/3608286/indiana-license-to-discriminate/)


Indiana legislators openly admit that this bill was designed to discriminate against the LGBT community. They say 'you may be able to marry in IN, but we will make sure you are discriminated against'.

It will be a big price to pay to lose the NCAA and others just so some Christian woman doesn't have to bake a wedding cake for two men.

Other states, including Michigan, decided these laws were just too risky, but not Indiana. Don't come around moaning and groaning when you lose millions of dollars in lost revenue.

I read the article that you posted (also noticed the questionable source) - what you state above is bs. I do not see that anywhere in the article and you even go so far as to put it in quotes! Just goes to show how far some people will go to twist the facts.

[Guest]

Muslim and Christians are on the same page when it comes to this.

[Guest]

Muslim and Christians are on the same page when it comes to this.

And you would be incorrect.

[Guest]

Which religion would not go to Indiana?

[Guest]

What religion in America would not go to Indiana?

[Guest]

I read the article that you posted (also noticed the questionable source) - what you state above is bs. I do not see that anywhere in the article and you even go so far as to put it in quotes! Just goes to show how far some people will go to twist the facts.


Here is the exact quote from the article - "But now lawmakers want to make sure that even if same-sex couples can marry, they can still be discriminated against." - last sentence in the next to last paragraph.

[Guest]

Here is the exact quote from the article - "But now lawmakers want to make sure that even if same-sex couples can marry, they can still be discriminated against." - last sentence in the next to last paragraph.

Thank you - you just verified my point!

[Guest]

I find it interesting that we have commenters podting here saying how bad Indiana is for passing this law while residing in a State the has the EXACT same law! Where is the protest in Florida? There is a federal law that is the same. Where is the protest? If people read the and understand they would understand the law does not give the right to discriminate. It protects individual and business from being forced by the government to violaye their religious beliefs. Anyone remember the Hobby Lobby case? Stop believing what is being spoon fed to you by the liberal media and there would not be this protest.

[Guest]

Reggie Miller, Charles Barkley rail against Indiana law | MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/reggie-miller-charles-barkley-rail-against-indiana-law?cid=sm_tw_msnbc)


Two more high profile athletes come out against this Indiana law. NBA legends Charles Barkley and Reggie Miller railed against the law saying they are not political people, but this despicable law caused them to speak out.

[Guest]

Laws like that are one step closer to Sharia Law in this country that used to believe in religious freedom. Very sad and antiquated. Too many law makers are choosing to put their oun personal beliefs above that of their constituents.

It's clear that by referencing Sharia law in the manner you do that you have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about but simply parroting something you heard ... probably on MSNBC

[Guest]

Reggie Miller, Charles Barkley rail against Indiana law | MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/reggie-miller-charles-barkley-rail-against-indiana-law?cid=sm_tw_msnbc)


Two more high profile athletes come out against this Indiana law. NBA legends Charles Barkley and Reggie Miller railed against the law saying they are not political people, but this despicable law caused them to speak out.

OK enough reasoning to take note......must not be too serious though Hollywood has not come forth yet.

[Guest]

I find it interesting that we have commenters podting here saying how bad Indiana is for passing this law while residing in a State the has the EXACT same law! Where is the protest in Florida? There is a federal law that is the same. Where is the protest? If people read the and understand they would understand the law does not give the right to discriminate. It protects individual and business from being forced by the government to violaye their religious beliefs. Anyone remember the Hobby Lobby case? Stop believing what is being spoon fed to you by the liberal media and there would not be this protest.

The Big Lie The Media Tells About Indiana's New 'Religious Freedom' Law | ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/03/30/3640374/big-lie-media-tells-indianas-new-religious-freedom-law/)


The Indiana law differs substantially from the federal RFRA law signed by President Clinton and all other laws in other states. The Indiana law contains provisions that would rule in disputes between private citizens.

[Guest]

And in some states there are still laws on the books for illegally tying up your horse in front of a bank.

Ah that was yesterday's news pump.

[Guest]

I find it interesting that we have commenters podting here saying how bad Indiana is for passing this law while residing in a State the has the EXACT same law! Where is the protest in Florida? There is a federal law that is the same. Where is the protest? If people read the and understand they would understand the law does not give the right to discriminate. It protects individual and business from being forced by the government to violaye their religious beliefs. Anyone remember the Hobby Lobby case? Stop believing what is being spoon fed to you by the liberal media and there would not be this protest.

This is factually incorrect. ALL of the other RFRA's (both the Federal one and ALL of the other state ones) are different from the Indiana law in one VERY important area. ALL of the previous RFRA's were specially written to be between individuals and government. The Indiana law contains a provision for the law to be applied between individuals.

The Indiana law differs substantially from the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act, signed by President Clinton in 1993, and all other state RFRAs.

"There are several important differences in the Indiana bill but the most striking is Section 9. Under that section, a “person” (which under the law includes not only an individual but also any organization, partnership, LLC, corporation, company, firm, church, religious society, or other entity) whose “exercise of religion has been substantially burdened, or is likely to be substantially burdened” can use the law as “a claim or defense… regardless of whether the state or any other governmental entity is a party to the proceeding.”

Every other Religious Freedom Restoration Act applies to disputes between a person or entity and a government. Indiana’s is the only law that explicitly applies to disputes between private citizens. This means it could be used as a cudgel by corporations to justify discrimination against individuals that might otherwise be protected under law. Indiana trial lawyer Matt Anderson, discussing this difference, writes that the Indiana law is “more broadly written than its federal and state predecessors” and opens up “the path of least resistance among its species to have a court adjudicate it in a manner that could ultimately be used to discriminate…” "


Source for above quote:

The Big Lie The Media Tells About Indiana's New 'Religious Freedom' Law | ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2015/03/30/3640374/big-lie-media-tells-indianas-new-religious-freedom-law/)

[Guest]

AFSCME, The American Federations of State, County, and Municipal Employees is pulling its women's convention scheduled for next fall out of Indiana because of this new law. The union president said the 1.6 million members of AFSCME will not contribute to any state that passes such legislation.










AFSCME Relocating Conference Out Of 'Disgust' Of Religious Liberty Law (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/afscme-mike-pence-religious-freedom?utm_content=buffer08299&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer)

[Guest]

AFSCME, The American Federations of State, County, and Municipal Employees is pulling its women's convention scheduled for next fall out of Indiana because of this new law. The union president said the 1.6 million members of AFSCME will not contribute to any state that passes such legislation.

I





AFSCME Relocating Conference Out Of 'Disgust' Of Religious Liberty Law (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/afscme-mike-pence-religious-freedom?utm_content=buffer08299&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer)

ndiana should play its cards right and encourage the influx of conservative businesses thru various incentives ... in a few years the state would become a growth and success story

[Guest]

ndiana should play its cards right and encourage the influx of conservative businesses thru various incentives ... in a few years the state would become a growth and success story

In other words a "safe haven" for bigots.

[Guest]

In other words a "safe haven" for bigots.

Would you mind sharing with us how you conclude the above.
The same logic that concludes an ice cream treat is a turd sandwich!
No words any longer are able to describe your interpretive process.......that being a compliment by the way.

[Guest]

ndiana should play its cards right and encourage the influx of conservative businesses thru various incentives ... in a few years the state would become a growth and success story
Who exactly is going to buy your "conservative" products? I'm sure there won't be any women, African Americans, Asians, Hispanics, gays, lesbians, or any other minority(other than tea party bigots) that will spend a dime there. I believe your "conservative businesses" will make the new law a moot point. You see greed will win out. It always does with YOUR KIND!

[Guest]

Who exactly is going to buy your "conservative" products? I'm sure there won't be any women, African Americans, Asians, Hispanics, gays, lesbians, or any other minority(other than tea party bigots) that will spend a dime there. I believe your "conservative businesses" will make the new law a moot point. You see greed will win out. It always does with YOUR KIND!

Hey Chicken Little...19 states have similar laws and they're doing just fine! Cheer up! You're such an economic buzz-kill.

:crap2:

[Guest]

Hey Chicken Little...19 states have similar laws and they're doing just fine! Cheer up! You're such an economic buzz-kill.

:crap2:

See post #21 for the difference in the state laws in 19 other states compared to the law in Indiana.

[Guest]

Hey Chicken Little...19 states have similar laws and they're doing just fine! Cheer up! You're such an economic buzz-kill.

:crap2:
Seriously, try to keep up here!

See post #21 for the difference in the state laws in 19 other states compared to the law in Indiana.

[Guest]

See post #21 for the difference in the state laws in 19 other states compared to the law in Indiana.

I saw it and am completely and totally underwhelmed with the insignificance of it. Whoa... a baker refuses to bake a cake for a homosexual wedding. Seriously, that's what's got your panties in a wad? A gay wedding cake?

Here's a suggestion for the homosexual couple: GO TO ANOTHER BAKERY! You know, one of the 10,000 others in town... grocery stores, bakeries, Costco, Sam's club, private citizens...

If the baker is super religious and his religion says no cakes for homosexuals, I don't see how it's fair to force the little baker guy to bake a cake he doesn't want to bake. It's not like there aren't a ton of other options here.

[Guest]

I'd like to thank the governor of Conn. Today he banned state sponsored travel to the bigoted state of Indiana. I love it when these idiots ( gov of Indianna) make national attention, then real changes can happen, outside the gerrymandered fiefdoms created by these same BIGOTS!

[Guest]

How does a religious freedom law equate with bigotry? Are the critics saying that all muslims discriminate against Christians? Or, that black Christians discriminate against white ones? Based on the brilliant commentary of posts, should I conclude that anyone who disagrees with avant-garde social thought, i.e. homosexuality is normal, all whites are racists, is a bigot?

[Guest]

I saw it and am completely and totally underwhelmed with the insignificance of it. Whoa... a baker refuses to bake a cake for a homosexual wedding. Seriously, that's what's got your panties in a wad? A gay wedding cake?

Here's a suggestion for the homosexual couple: GO TO ANOTHER BAKERY! You know, one of the 10,000 others in town... grocery stores, bakeries, Costco, Sam's club, private citizens...

If the baker is super religious and his religion says no cakes for homosexuals, I don't see how it's fair to force the little baker guy to bake a cake he doesn't want to bake. It's not like there aren't a ton of other options here.


Where does it stop? Who else can they exclude? The laws in this country are quite clear, and have been settled for decades. Once a person opens a business to the public, that person must serve the entire public. He/she doesn't get to decide who they will serve and who to exclude.

If the little baker guy doesn't want to bake a cake for homosexuals or lesbians, maybe he should find another line of work.

[Guest]

Mike Pence's name has been thrown around as presidentual candidate, kiss that good-by. This knuckle dragger thinking is why Obama won a second term and Hilary will win her 1st. But let's keep cheering Ted Cruz on.

[Guest]

Who else can they exclude? The laws in this country are quite clear, and have been settled for decades. Once a person opens a business to the public, that person must serve the entire public. He/she doesn't get to decide who they will serve and who to exclude.



I think you don't understand the law. The law precisely allows our little baker to not be forced to bake a cake for a homosexual couple if it's against his religious beliefs. So NO, Mr. Baker does NOT have to serve the "entire public" and he doesn't need to find another line of work. The homosexual couple need to find another baker!

[Guest]

I think you don't understand the law. The law precisely allows our little baker to not be forced to bake a cake for a homosexual couple if it's against his religious beliefs. So NO, Mr. Baker does NOT have to serve the "entire public" and he doesn't need to find another line of work. The homosexual couple need to find another baker!


The idea of government compelling even one poor conservative baker to bake a cake is too much. But they're fine with denying all gay people the right to marry.

[Guest]

The idea of government compelling even one poor conservative baker to bake a cake is too much. But they're fine with denying all gay people the right to marry.

Yes but this country is still so unfair, discriminatory and just plain rotten it makes me want to burst into tears. If you can believe it, I am still not allowed to marry my dog or cat. When is someone going to finally address this issue??

[Guest]

In other words a "safe haven" for bigots.

Ah yes, thanks first for the obligatory leftie name calling … no post would be complete without it.

I would term it a haven for people of faith who seek relief from having their beliefs invalidated by the gay mafia who continue to move the bar on what’s normal and what’s not, and then use the strong arm of the state to shove it down their throats, metaphorically speaking.

This fake issue is simply a continuation of the Left’s continual assault on religion, most specifically of the Judeo-Christian variety. The basic law was signed by Bill Clinton and supported by Obama as a state senator in the mid 90s. But, it’s no longer PC, hence must be taken out by the compliant media leviathan with parroting of the type you so eloquently exemplify

[Guest]

Ah yes, thanks first for the obligatory leftie name calling … no post would be complete without it.

I would term it a haven for people of faith who seek relief from having their beliefs invalidated by the gay mafia who continue to move the bar on what’s normal and what’s not, and then use the strong arm of the state to shove it down their throats, metaphorically speaking.

This fake issue is simply a continuation of the Left’s continual assault on religion, most specifically of the Judeo-Christian variety. The basic law was signed by Bill Clinton and supported by Obama as a state senator in the mid 90s. But, it’s no longer PC, hence must be taken out by the compliant media leviathan with parroting of the type you so eloquently exemplify


Has the public's attitude toward same-sex marriage changed since the 1990's? You bet it has. How many states allowed same-sex marriage in the 1990's? Zero. Massachusetts was the first state under then Gov Mitt Romney back in 2006.

Gov Mike Pence abhors discrimination. How then can he be against same-sex marriage?

[Guest]

The idea of government compelling even one poor conservative baker to bake a cake is too much. But they're fine with denying all gay people the right to marry.
I admit I probably don't understand exactly how this law was intended to work but still believe the knuckle dragging contingency in alive and very well in the Republican party. They will throw away another election that should be a chip shot as they did in 2012. Romney should be president today but driven to hard to right by this group. Go Ted Cruz

[Guest]

Ahah! The secret is out. All any party has to do is roll over and support everything that is proposed, offending no one. How could the democrats allow other parties to gain this knowledge.

Dag nab it. Now that the lid has been lifted we can all join in the sucess.
It is gonna be tougher to decide who to vote for after this revelation takes hold.

[Guest]

I see where Tim Cook, speaking for Apple, criticized the new law in Indiana. I also heard Apple is about to start selling iPhones in Saudi Arabia and then possibly Iran

So let me get this straight ...a homosexual in Indiana may have to shop around for a wedding cake but in either Islamic country that same homosexual will either be beheaded or stoned to death simply for existing.

Is it possible that Apples priorities and selective criticism are completely screwed up?? Just askin ...

[Guest]

Yes but this country is still so unfair, discriminatory and just plain rotten it makes me want to burst into tears. If you can believe it, I am still not allowed to marry my dog or cat. When is someone going to finally address this issue??

You, my friend, are a knuckle dragging Tea Party reject.

[Guest]

Religion has brought comfort to billions over the years and that was a good thing. Now with technology, the only way faith can continue is by selecting ONE religious belief for the entire world,
OR
Religion is on the path to distroy the earth. Most religions encourage loving and helping your brothers and sisters, yet, the most violent and despicable acts are committed or at least supported by those that are believers in some form of God.

[Guest]

This screenshot kind of sums it up for me.

49752

[Guest]

This screenshot kind of sums it up for me.

49752

Excellent example of emotional hyperbole on steroids

[Guest]

Tully: Mike Pence is out of his league as governor (http://www.indystar.com/story/opinion/columnists/matthew-tully/2015/03/31/tully-mike-pence-league-governor/70746540/)


In today's Indianapolis Star, columnist Matthew Tully says "Mike Pence is out of his league as Governor, "a stunningly ineffective leader."

[Guest]

Walmart CEO Calls On Arkansas Gov. To Veto Anti-Gay Bill (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/walmart-veto-arkansas-religious-freedom?utm_content=buffere8b71&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer)


All eyes will be on Arkansas today to see if Gov Asa Hutchinson bucks the country's largest employer, Wal-Mart, and signs the anti-gay bill passed by his state's legislature. The bill is similar to the law recently passed in Indiana.

[Guest]

Excellent example of emotional hyperbole on steroids
Hyperbole on steroids.....that's beautiful.

[Guest]

Religion has brought comfort to billions over the years and that was a good thing. Now with technology, the only way faith can continue is by selecting ONE religious belief for the entire world,
OR
Religion is on the path to distroy the earth. Most religions encourage loving and helping your brothers and sisters, yet, the most violent and despicable acts are committed or at least supported by those that are believers in some form of God.

Religious groups are among other things a statistical representation of a segment of the population. And there will be different attributes in differing percentages of that population. And as per usual the actions of the minority percentages are always the ones highlighted.

"Religion" is not the destroyer it is man.

The post would be more clear if a point was made.

[Guest]

Hyperbole on steroids.....that's beautiful.

Again your bigotry comes flowing to the surface. I'll bet your folk are proud of you too.

[Guest]

No opinion on either side. But how in the world can a Indiana politician say they didn't expect this kind of reaction.

[Guest]

Again your bigotry comes flowing to the surface. I'll bet your folk are proud of you too.

Try to go one day ... just one ... without resorting to your mindless and robotic name calling. You may surprise yourself.

[Guest]

No opinion on either side. But how in the world can a Indiana politician say they didn't expect this kind of reaction.

I personally believe that most politicians do not or know in detail what it is they are supporting or approving. Their knowledge is purely a function of how does this legislation affect which voting block. What they know is also a function of who prepares the summary for them to have a cursory knowledge of what they are supposed to support or sign.

This is proven every single day when a politician states what he thinks the group (votes) in front of him wants to hear. Then the next day they walk back what they said or re-state what they said or the likes of Josh (the press secretary) merely goes on to say well that is not what he meant. Mean while the mission was accomplished right. They said what they wanted to say in front of the target group.

Politicians are on page two (maybe) of the list of Who Do You Trust.

[Guest]

The Arkansas governor won't sign the Indiana-like bill. Changes are needed before he will. Just saved hinself a lot of grief.

[Guest]

I personally believe that most politicians do not or know in detail what it is they are supporting or approving. Their knowledge is purely a function of how does this legislation affect which voting block. What they know is also a function of who prepares the summary for them to have a cursory knowledge of what they are supposed to support or sign.

This is proven every single day when a politician states what he thinks the group (votes) in front of him wants to hear. Then the next day they walk back what they said or re-state what they said or the likes of Josh (the press secretary) merely goes on to say well that is not what he meant. Mean while the mission was accomplished right. They said what they wanted to say in front of the target group.

Politicians are on page two (maybe) of the list of Who Do You Trust.

Indiana Pizzeria Says It Will Deny Service to LGBT People | Mother Jones (http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/04/indiana-pizzeria-gay-couples)

The legislature could not stop same-sex marriage in the state of Indiana, so they tried the next best thing, stopping gay and lesbian couples from serving pizza at their wedding.

No self-respecting gay or lesbian couple would want to serve pizza at their wedding.

[Guest]

The Arkansas governor won't sign the Indiana-like bill. Changes are needed before he will. Just saved hinself a lot of grief.

This puts the 2016 GOP candidates in a tough position. They all just came out in support of Gov. Mike Pence, before Pence himself back off of his position, and now will they follow Gov. Asa Hutchinson?

[Guest]

The Arkansas governor won't sign the Indiana-like bill. Changes are needed before he will. Just saved hinself a lot of grief.


Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson must veto this bill within five days or it becomes law without his signature.

[Guest]

I personally believe that most politicians do not or know in detail what it is they are supporting or approving. Their knowledge is purely a function of how does this legislation affect which voting block. What they know is also a function of who prepares the summary for them to have a cursory knowledge of what they are supposed to support or sign.

This is proven every single day when a politician states what he thinks the group (votes) in front of him wants to hear. Then the next day they walk back what they said or re-state what they said or the likes of Josh (the press secretary) merely goes on to say well that is not what he meant. Mean while the mission was accomplished right. They said what they wanted to say in front of the target group.

Politicians are on page two (maybe) of the list of Who Do You Trust.

You know our system well

[Guest]

Just out of curiosity ...

If a Christian activist walks into a gay owned/operated bakery (in any state) and request a wedding cake with the inscription "Oppose Homosexual Marriage", and the gay baker refuses to serve him ... should the gay baker be brought into court for discrimination?

[Guest]

The little baker has every right to state he would not be comfortable baking a cake for gays as his religion believes in traditional marriage. And the gay couple have the right to shop elsewhere. Its a win win for both

[Guest]

The little baker has every right to state he would not be comfortable baking a cake for gays as his religion believes in traditional marriage. And the gay couple have the right to shop elsewhere. Its a win win for both

Agree :)

[Guest]

You lost the civil war and civil right movement. Come to think of it you have been on the wrong side of history in every fight!

[Guest]

Memories pizza never refused to serve a gay person. They just don't want to be involved with a non traditional marriage. That is the business owners right. Why don't we stop trying to shove this gay agenda down everyones throat. Frankly I am sick of it. You can't even watch a TV show anymore without gays involved. I hope the contributions keep flooding in to this pizza business. Its a disgrace in America they should be afraid to operate their business. They have a right to say no just as the gay person has a right to take their business elsewhere

[Guest]

You lost the civil war and civil right movement. Come to think of it you have been on the wrong side of history in every fight!

Unfortunately, you lost the battle at birth when you were dealt a bad batch of DNA

[Guest]

Unfortunately, you lost the battle at birth when you were dealt a bad batch of DNA

Oh, what a comeback. Hope you didn't hurt yourself reaching for that one.

[Guest]

Memories pizza never refused to serve a gay person. They just don't want to be involved with a non traditional marriage. That is the business owners right. Why don't we stop trying to shove this gay agenda down everyones throat. Frankly I am sick of it. You can't even watch a TV show anymore without gays involved. I hope the contributions keep flooding in to this pizza business. Its a disgrace in America they should be afraid to operate their business. They have a right to say no just as the gay person has a right to take their business elsewhere

:agree:

[Guest]

Oh, what a comeback. Hope you didn't hurt yourself reaching for that one.

You need to be more original and not just copy what other people say ...

[Guest]

You need to be more original and not just copy what other people say ...

Like you are outnumbered my Gang of Four tea party wingnut friend!

[Guest]

Like you are outnumbered my Gang of Four tea party wingnut friend!

There you go again .. .making my point.

[Guest]

The little baker has every right to state he would not be comfortable baking a cake for gays as his religion believes in traditional marriage. And the gay couple have the right to shop elsewhere. Its a win win for both



Sometimes I go to the bakery and order a gay wedding cake, even though there is no gay wedding.

[Guest]

Sometimes I go to the bakery and order a gay wedding cake, even though there is no gay wedding.

That's a nice sentiment ... I like it :)

[Guest]

How many on this thread would have the cahones to tell a gay couple they would not bake them a wedding cake because it is obscene for that to be allowed to happen? Laws shouldn't cover lots of things like that are just obscene and goverment should stay out of personal things and business.

[Guest]

How many on this thread would have the cahones to tell a gay couple they would not bake them a wedding cake because it is obscene for that to be allowed to happen? Laws shouldn't cover lots of things like that are just obscene and goverment should stay out of personal things and business.

Tah-dah!!!!!!

[Guest]

How many on this thread would have the cahones to tell a gay couple they would not bake them a wedding cake

Almost everyone... If the homosexuals get roughed up, airlines would be grounded, florists would close, interior decorator appointments would be cancelled, half the Jamba Juices would shutdown, and nearly every dance studio would take the day off.

Rest assured, roads and buildings would still be built, wars fought, babies conceived, and plenty of pubs kept busy.

Oh, and EVERY democrat office would close either because they're directly affected or in sympathy. :1rotfl:

[Guest]

Just out of curiosity ...

If a Christian activist walks into a gay owned/operated bakery (in any state) and request a wedding cake with the inscription "Oppose Homosexual Marriage", and the gay baker refuses to serve him ... should the gay baker be brought into court for discrimination?

Making a cake does not involve speech, it is the production of a product which is devoid of speech. Inscribing involves speech and no one can be compelled to either speak or be silent. This is well established by law. So nice straw man try.

Some are also turning to the court decision against Masterpiece Cakeshop, which refused business from a gay couple in search of a wedding cake. In the December 2013 decision, administrative law judge Robert N. Spencer repeatedly drew a distinction between refusing service to an individual and refusing to inscribe a specific message on a cake, noting:


Respondents argue that if they are compelled to make a cake for a same-sex wedding, then a black baker could not refuse to make a cake bearing a white-supremacist message for a member of the Aryan Nation; and an Islamic baker could not refuse to make a cake denigrating the Koran for the Westboro Baptist Church.

However, neither of these fanciful hypothetical situations proves Respondents’ point. In both cases, it is the explicit, unmistakable, offensive message that the bakers are asked to put on the cake that gives rise to the bakers’ free speech right to refuse. That, however, is not the case here, where Respondents refused to bake any cake for Complainants regardless of what was written on it or what it looked like.


If your religion forbids whites and blacks to marry, you cannot refuse to serve mixed couples or rent them a home, or allow them in your hotel. You may decline to say happy anniversary to them, you may decline to speak to them at all, but you must serve them the same you would any other couple. That was the problem with the Indiana law prior to being amended and the Arkansas bill prior to being amended. If giving businesses legal protection to discriminate was not the purpose for this law, it had none as the Federal law already provided the basic protection. The only need for a state provision is to go beyond Federal regulations as a state cannot have lower level of civil rights protections.

[Guest]

The little baker has every right to state he would not be comfortable baking a cake for gays as his religion believes in traditional marriage. And the gay couple have the right to shop elsewhere. Its a win win for both

No, it is not a win/win. The baker may state he is not comfortable (his free speech) but he does not have a right to refuse service if he is operating a business. And the gay couple has a right to shop and be served at any business in the same manner as a straight, or transgender person. You want to call your bakery "The Christian Bakery" go ahead, but a little fish everywhere, post Leviticus passages all around. But when you open a business to the public you don't discriminate no matter what personal animosity you harbor.

[Guest]

No, it is not a win/win. The baker may state he is not comfortable (his free speech) but he does not have a right to refuse service if he is operating a business. And the gay couple has a right to shop and be served at any business in the same manner as a straight, or transgender person. You want to call your bakery "The Christian Bakery" go ahead, but a little fish everywhere, post Leviticus passages all around. But when you open a business to the public you don't discriminate no matter what personal animosity you harbor.

What about all those signs in businesses, especially restaurants, that say:

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

Is this an illegal sentiment? Why would a proprietor hang one of these signs explicitly threatening an action he knows to be illegal?

Honestly curious...

[Guest]

If we bring back the draft to conscript people to fight in more useless wars, ie. Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan and if Ace aviator John McCain has his way Iran, this stupid law will stop the draft dead in its tracks. Seems like we did n't care about homosexuality and religious beliefs when we needed cannon fodder for wasting people's lives to stop the spread of "communism". As Sarah Palin would say "how did that work out for you?"

[Guest]

Who exactly is going to buy your "conservative" products? I'm sure there won't be any women, African Americans, Asians, Hispanics, gays, lesbians, or any other minority(other than tea party bigots) that will spend a dime there. I believe your "conservative businesses" will make the new law a moot point. You see greed will win out. It always does with YOUR KIND!

Probably the same patrons who have made chick fila and hobby lobby such success stories

[Guest]

The purpose of any society is to provide a group in which like-minded people want to live. Rules are a reflection of the mores, intentions, and way-of-life the particular group wants for themselves. Mideastern societies want to live under Sharia law, more power to them as a willing group of people. In the US our free society provides a set of rules under the Constitution by which we originally agreed to ban together. In the 21st Century the compact is no longer effective. We have no standards of behavior, personal discipline and think each group is "entitled" to personal gain and respect. The US needs to breakup into smaller countries, probably 4, each of which can offer people a choice of values.:wave:

[Guest]

The purpose of any society is to provide a group in which like-minded people want to live. Rules are a reflection of the mores, intentions, and way-of-life the particular group wants for themselves. Mideastern societies want to live under Sharia law, more power to them as a willing group of people. In the US our free society provides a set of rules under the Constitution by which we originally agreed to ban together. In the 21st Century the compact is no longer effective. We have no standards of behavior, personal discipline and think each group is "entitled" to personal gain and respect. The US needs to breakup into smaller countries, probably 4, each of which can offer people a choice of values.:wave:

I agree that we are widely separated by what can be termed a values disagreement. You can call it Red States / Blue States with a few purple ones in the mix. It's basically a conflict of morality in terms of how one defines it.

However, breaking the country up into 4 or 3 or even two new countries would cause everyone to lose. Historically, this has usually resulted in problems and ultimately military defeat ... which should that happen, will trump any values disagreements we have.

Rodney King's words still ring true ... "can't we all just get along?" We had better learn to.

[Guest]

People of faith will follow the written word of thir specific God. They have no respect for the law IF THE LAW does not mimic their faith. The question is, which faith and version of that faith is to be followed in America? Or perhaps, the country should have freedom of religion and allow a democratic process decide on civil laws that would
NOT ALLOW GOVERNMENT TO ENFRINGE ON ANY RELIGION OR ALLOW RELIGIOUS FOLLOWERS TO ENFRINGE ON THOSE THAT BELIEVE DIFFERENTLY THAN THEY DO.

[Guest]

People of faith will follow the written word of thir specific God. They have no respect for the law IF THE LAW does not mimic their faith. The question is, which faith and version of that faith is to be followed in America? Or perhaps, the country should have freedom of religion and allow a democratic process decide on civil laws that would
NOT ALLOW GOVERNMENT TO ENFRINGE ON ANY RELIGION OR ALLOW RELIGIOUS FOLLOWERS TO ENFRINGE ON THOSE THAT BELIEVE DIFFERENTLY THAN THEY DO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdB-qR_IJ9I

[Guest]

Crazy gay people, expecting to buy stuff with money they earned.

[Guest]

I wonder why gay people who make outlandish demands on everyone else are now on an anti-religious campaign?

I wonder why they become so intellectually violent if someone disagrees with their agenda?

I don't like eastern Indian food does that make me a bigot? I think not

I don't like watching gay day pride parades. Does that make me a homophobic?

I don't like watching basketball or hockey. Does that make me a bigot?

I wouldn't let nudist in my photographic business. Does that make me a bigot?

[Guest]

Probably the same patrons who have made chick fila and hobby lobby such success stories

Basically, if a store owner has made it clear that they have different values than I do, I will not shop there. There are many thousands like me, too. We refuse to shop at Chic-Fil-A and Hobby Lobby based on the store's principles.

I fully realize that my few dollars and the few dollars of people like me do not make any difference to these stores, but it is still an expression of my opinion.

[Guest]

I wonder why gay people who make outlandish demands on everyone else are now on an anti-religious campaign?

I wonder why they become so intellectually violent if someone disagrees with their agenda?

I don't like eastern Indian food does that make me a bigot? I think not

I don't like watching gay day pride parades. Does that make me a homophobic?

I don't like watching basketball or hockey. Does that make me a bigot?

I wouldn't let nudist in my photographic business. Does that make me a bigot?

Those individual actions do not make you homophobic or a bigot. Combining all of them and then claiming you specifically are not homophobic or a bigot does speak a different story. In other words, "Me thinks he doth protest too much."

[Guest]

Those individual actions do not make you homophobic or a bigot. Combining all of them and then claiming you specifically are not homophobic or a bigot does speak a different story. In other words, "Me thinks he doth protest too much."

Dear Guest:

First the quote "He doth protest too much, me thinks" doesn't apply. I only ventured an opinion, not a protest.

Secondly while it is not true that I am either homophobic or a bigot even if it were true what difference does it make, providing I live my life without interfering in other lives? Why is it that I am denied choices? Why is it I am subjected to being called names just because of my values? Have we finally reached that Orwellian world. Why is it OK for Home Depot to push for gay issues without ridicule but a place like Chick Fil A is subjected to demands and vilified? The Indian spices do not agree with my taste buds. Its no more than that. My daughter loves the stuff.

The reason we are having this conversation is that many people are sick and tired of the intellectual violence being advanced by the gay community to anyone who opposes their idea of what the world should look like.

Cest la vie

[Guest]

Dear Guest:

First the quote "He doth protest too much, me thinks" doesn't apply. I only ventured an opinion, not a protest.

Secondly while it is not true that I am either homophobic or a bigot even if it were true what difference does it make, providing I live my life without interfering in other lives? Why is it that I am denied choices? Why is it I am subjected to being called names just because of my values? Have we finally reached that Orwellian world. Why is it OK for Home Depot to push for gay issues without ridicule but a place like Chick Fil A is subjected to demands and vilified? The Indian spices do not agree with my taste buds. Its no more than that. My daughter loves the stuff.

The reason we are having this conversation is that many people are sick and tired of the intellectual violence being advanced by the gay community to anyone who opposes their idea of what the world should look like.

Cest la vie

Great post, as were your questions in the previous post. Only a twisted mind could have possibly turned that into a claim of racism and/or bigotry. It was clear to any thinking person that you were talking about choices. The hypocrisy that we now see in this country is astounding, as those who demand choices and acceptance denounce anyone who may have a differing opinion.

[Guest]

Bigotry and racism shows itself it many ways. The previous posts verify that!

[Guest]

Great post, as were your questions in the previous post. Only a twisted mind could have possibly turned that into a claim of racism and/or bigotry. It was clear to any thinking person that you were talking about choices. The hypocrisy that we now see in this country is astounding, as those who demand choices and acceptance denounce anyone who may have a differing opinion.

Exactly the issue on this forum to a fault ++. And a major contributor to why politics in Washington DC are so very polarized and nothing gets done.

I remember when in school being taught to listen to other opinions; even the single opposing opinion on the chance that would be the only one accurate or correct. That opposing person today could be shouted down, removed or even bodily harmed.

In the current day thinking there is no allowance for agreeing to disagree.

[Guest]

ok...I respectfully disagree with most of you

[Guest]

Sorry Rodney, not really. The words have a nice ring to them but human interaction reveals that we cannot get along.

The proposed 4 nation split would include a common defense agreement. Most wars will be hi-tech, i.e. drones. The US population is too big and diverse to be a coherent nation in the future. Too many groups want special privileges, their are no "norms". Some groups are out-of-control and anti-American.

[Guest]

Good post. Respect is earned not provided by the government. Diversity of opinion is a right and should be encouraged, not discourage or shouted down as done by the media and special interest groups.

[Guest]

Basically, if a store owner has made it clear that they have different values than I do, I will not shop there. There are many thousands like me, too. We refuse to shop at Chic-Fil-A and Hobby Lobby based on the store's principles.

I fully realize that my few dollars and the few dollars of people like me do not make any difference to these stores, but it is still an expression of my opinion.

Wow I love hobby lobby and love seeing the beautiful christian items for sale. As a store who is very family oriented and still closes on Sundays I respect that . Remember when we were kids? How many stores closed on Sundays? I love the fact they are a Christian based store with good old traditional values, not to mention the beautiful decor they carry.

[Guest]

Sorry Rodney, not really. The words have a nice ring to them but human interaction reveals that we cannot get along.

The proposed 4 nation split would include a common defense agreement. Most wars will be hi-tech, i.e. drones. The US population is too big and diverse to be a coherent nation in the future. Too many groups want special privileges, their are no "norms". Some groups are out-of-control and anti-American.

The most frightenly accurate phrasing of the issue(s) we are confronted with, I have seen to date.

[Guest]

But you already lost the civil war. Each of your four countries could then select their bigotry of choice. Like it or not, we are one nation, and eventually we will have majority rule if we get big money out of politics, impose term limits, and enforce anti-trust laws as they were designed. As Bernie sanders said a couple of days ago, we are losing our democracy. It is being bought out by a select group of billionaires. And we are buying their lies as gospel, as they wrap themselves in our flag that they could care less about. We are a consumer nation. Jobs are not created by these wealthy thieves, they are created by demand for a product or service. Open your eyes America before it's too late!

[Guest]

Sorry Rodney, not really. The words have a nice ring to them but human interaction reveals that we cannot get along.

The proposed 4 nation split would include a common defense agreement. Most wars will be hi-tech, i.e. drones. The US population is too big and diverse to be a coherent nation in the future. Too many groups want special privileges, their are no "norms". Some groups are out-of-control and anti-American.

For the record, I believe this would be a huge and irreversible mistake.

Having said that, I'm curious to hear how you would split things up? In some cases, you'd have to carve up existing states not just rearrange the 57 we currently have.

[Guest]

The purpose of any society is to provide a group in which like-minded people want to live. Rules are a reflection of the mores, intentions, and way-of-life the particular group wants for themselves. Mideastern societies want to live under Sharia law, more power to them as a willing group of people. In the US our free society provides a set of rules under the Constitution by which we originally agreed to ban together. In the 21st Century the compact is no longer effective. We have no standards of behavior, personal discipline and think each group is "entitled" to personal gain and respect. The US needs to breakup into smaller countries, probably 4, each of which can offer people a choice of values.:wave:

The non Christian religions would fit in RI. For some reason people can not see all our Christian churches in the USA!

[Guest]

The reason we are having this conversation is that many people are sick and tired of the intellectual violence being advanced by the gay community to anyone who opposes their idea of what the world should look like.

Cest la vie

Or maybe we're having this conversation because many people are sick and tired of the intellectual violence being advanced by the conservative community on anyone who opposes their idea of what the world should look like.

[Guest]

Or maybe we're having this conversation because many people are sick and tired of the intellectual violence being advanced by the conservative community on anyone who opposes their idea of what the world should look like.

Or maybe we're having this conversation because many people are sick and tired of the intellectual violence being advanced by the liberal community on anyone who opposes their idea of what the world should look like.

[Guest]

Or maybe we're having this conversation because many people are sick and tired of the intellectual violence being advanced by the conservative community on anyone who opposes their idea of what the world should look like.

This is just too delicious ... have you been to a college campus lately? Talk about intellectual violence, censorship, and PC groupthink. You seem to be suffering from delusional projection disorder

[Guest]

This is just too delicious ... have you been to a college campus lately? Talk about intellectual violence, censorship, and PC groupthink. You seem to be suffering from delusional projection disorder

That's funny stuff... If there was any validity to that argument, I guess all college graduates would be flaming liberals. But they aren't. You seem to be suffering form delusional projection disorder.

[Guest]

That's funny stuff... If there was any validity to that argument, I guess all college graduates would be flaming liberals. But they aren't. You seem to be suffering form delusional projection disorder.

But wait a minute, someone on here keeps bringing up the high percentage of young people who are, and that being one of the reasons for another guaranteed Dem win for the Presidency. So who's right? And about the college campuses being overrun by liberal agendas and PC foolishness - I'm not so far removed from that scene and I'd have to agree with the former poster - it is unfortunately alive and well on most campuses.

[Guest]

Under Guise Of 'Religious Liberty,' Congress Aims To Undo D.C. Law Protecting Women's Health Care | ThinkProgress (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2015/04/21/3649267/congress-dc-reproductive-discrimination/)


Once again, under the guise of religious freedom, congress seeks to undo a DC law aimed at protecting women's reproductive choices.

Women of America Unite. It's time to take our country back.

[Guest]

Or maybe we're having this conversation because many people are sick and tired of the intellectual violence being advanced by the liberal community on anyone who opposes their idea of what the world should look like.

And twelve men are drowned because they pray to Christ, and our President has no comment.

Kirsten Powers: Christians thrown overboard left to drown by Obama (http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/04/21/christians-religious-persecution-migrant-ship-italy-column/26083829/)

The hypocrisy that is ignored by our leader is stunning. He had a perfect chance to opine on this before the world, and he was silent.

[Guest]

And twelve men are drowned because they pray to Christ, and our President has no comment.

Kirsten Powers: Christians thrown overboard left to drown by Obama (http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/04/21/christians-religious-persecution-migrant-ship-italy-column/26083829/)

The hypocrisy that is ignored by our leader is stunning. He had a perfect chance to opine on this before the world, and he was silent.

Obama is a man of the left, and his heart is with Islam ... does anyone want to argue what is now obvious?

[Guest]

Obama is a man of the left, and his heart is with Islam ... does anyone want to argue what is now obvious?

I would argue your "obvious" point, but I was taught never to wrestle with pigs, you'll both get dirty and the pig will like it.

[Guest]

I would argue your "obvious" point, but I was taught never to wrestle with pigs, you'll both get dirty and the pig will like it.

How can you be so sure that you are right? I'm truly curious and would like to know. I would never want to think that our President is anti-American and pro-Islam, but by his actions (and not just in this instance) all seems to point to the notion that he is. Please convince me that I am wrong.

[Guest]

I would argue your "obvious" point, but I was taught never to wrestle with pigs, you'll both get dirty and the pig will like it.

Now now, not nice to simply engage in name calling. You won't argue the point because you know you'll lose this one based on what most people can increasingly see with their own eyes 😘

[Guest]

Now now, not nice to simply engage in name calling. You won't argue the point because you know you'll lose this one based on what most people can increasingly see with their own eyes 😘

Most of the righties I know only see faux news with their own eyes, and rush limbaugh with their own ears. Most are incapable or uninterested in viewing things in a balanced way. Too bad for them as national elections are decided by those of us in the middle.

[Guest]

Most of the righties I know only see faux news with their own eyes, and rush limbaugh with their own ears. Most are incapable or uninterested in viewing things in a balanced way. Too bad for them as national elections are decided by those of us in the middle.

Just out of curiosity, what are two or three media sources you consider to be genuinely balanced ??

[Guest]

Just out of curiosity, what are two or three media sources you consider to be genuinely balanced ??

I suspect that the answer to that question is WHATEVER AGREES WITH ME AND THE PRESIDENT, AND USES TERMS LIKE RIGHTIES AND LEFTIES.

Just a guess !

[Guest]

Most of the righties I know only see faux news with their own eyes, and rush limbaugh with their own ears. Most are incapable or uninterested in viewing things in a balanced way. Too bad for them as national elections are decided by those of us in the middle.

Wow!!!!!
This certainly means there are a lot of folks who have a very different definition of "balanced".
I can't believe this is actually in print!!!!!!!

[Guest]

Wow!!!!!
This certainly means there are a lot of folks who have a very different definition of "balanced".
I can't believe this is actually in print!!!!!!!

If you can't concede that fox reports news from an extremely biased viewpoint, you are beyond help. MSNBC is equally biased in the opposite direction. I get most of my news from newspapers online, though I occasionally watch CNN.

[Guest]

If you can't concede that fox reports news from an extremely biased viewpoint, you are beyond help. MSNBC is equally biased in the opposite direction. I get most of my news from newspapers online, though I occasionally watch CNN.

You mention MSNBC in your post.

I really find it ironic all the grief that Fox gets on this forum, yet very little about MSNBC and today i read in Politico an item that got my attention. I personally, at any time I have visited that network have found them to be downright nasty, rude and with very little respect for facts.

Over the years, the commentators on that network have beat in the ground about rich versus poor and especially how the rich have to pay more taxes. I mean, they really bet this up.

Seems that FOUR of their commentators are not paying their own taxes while they lecture the rest of us.

Al Sharpton
Melissa Harris Perry
Joy Ann Reid
Touré Neblett

it seems can lecture but not pay taxes. Just ironic it seems. That channel tells more lies in a one hour show than Fox or anyone can do in a week.

When people talk about networks and commentators more than the actual issues, that tells you a lot.

I know....I know....I am doing it, but reading the remarks on here and when I read this piece, it is just ironic.

4 MSNBC hosts plagued by tax debt - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2015/04/four-msnbc-hosts-plagued-by-tax-debt-205942.html)