Nuclear Agreement

[Guest]

Preliminary Agreement reached. Good Start.

[Guest]

Great leadership and determination by great Americans!

[Guest]

Up next on Fox News we'll have an expert on making deals with Iran - Oliver North.

[Guest]

How does anybody know it is a good start.
Now they have to sit down and read to find out what they agreed to sign.
Remember those famous words, let's pass it so we can see what is in it.
Before I would do any chest thumping I would like to know the upside and downside of the agreement.

[Guest]

Preliminary Agreement reached. Good Start.

WAIT...don't tell me:

"IF YOU LIKE YOUR DOCTOR, YOU CAN KEEP YOUR DOCTOR!"


Sounds like another snow job.

[Guest]

Kerry stated today we have details we are still working on. We have time he said. It will take Iran at least a year to "begin phasing".

I for one would like to know what that means.
Is it possible Iran can do whatever they want until the phasing begins?
They want sanctions relief now.
We want American prisoners released....they are looking at it.

I guess we will have to wait and see what we learn over the next few days.
I am sure Obama will be front and center soon telling us what a good deal we have...that we have made history....see I told you we could work with our enemies.

And yes you will be able to keep your plan and your doctor.

[Guest]

Daniel Henninger (WSJ) 4/2/15 wrote "Why the Iran Deal Is Irrelevant"

He summed it up with two words North Korea

[Guest]

It's no longer a question of "if" republicans will want to kill this deal. The question is how they will go about failing to do so.

[Guest]

It's no longer a question of "if" republicans will want to kill this deal. The question is how they will go about failing to do so.

Can we at least agree that it would be good to know and understand what is in the agreement. THEN we can all make an informed decion/opinion.

I know it is a foreign concept but some of us do not have an opinion yet without knowing. Whether you believe that or not is of no consequence.

[Guest]

This deal stops nothing. Its a fraud. Iran will be keeping all their facilities and continue to do research. If this is a good deal then why not submit the deal to the Senate and let them look at it?

[Guest]

Wow, once again the right is wishing for failure. They/ you have been doing this for six years, enough! All you care about is hatred for this administration and don't give a damn about this country!

[Guest]

This deal stops nothing. Its a fraud. Iran will be keeping all their facilities and continue to do research. If this is a good deal then why not submit the deal to the Senate and let them look at it?

:agree:

[Guest]

America wants to know why an American marine is still being held captive and tortured in Iran. give this soldier the dignity of life. I thought we don't leave a soldier behind no one negotiated for our marine.

[Guest]

America wants to know why an American marine is still being held captive and tortured in Iran. give this soldier the dignity of life. I thought we don't leave a soldier behind no one negotiated for our marine.

He obviously is not of the same value to the Obama administration as was Bergdahl. Slective enforcement......very confusing and to the enemies advantage.

NBC news coverage this eveing stated the best I have heard. We DO NOT have an agreement. We have a framework from which an agreement will be developed.

It took 16 months of concessions to get a framework!
And now we are to believe there will be a signed agreement in less than 3 months? Not in this century.

Iran's negotiator refused to agree with Kerry on what to announce. He also refused to have a joint press conference.

And then there is this little aftershock:

Iran Accuses U.S. of Lying About New Nuke Agreement | Washington Free Beacon (http://freebeacon.com/national-security/iran-accuses-u-s-of-lying-about-new-nuke-agreement/)

Iran is definitely acting as though they have all the cards and dealing from strength.
We on the other hand are STILL tip toeing and already peddaling the "good news" that even Iran says Obama and his team are not saying it like it is.

Prediction:
There will be no agreement with Iran.
Iran will as they reiforced after the meeting today, continue with their nuclear program.

It just looks like amateurs negotiating with the devil.

[Guest]

Wow, once again the right is wishing for failure. They/ you have been doing this for six years, enough! All you care about is hatred for this administration and don't give a damn about this country!

That's rich ... a Leftie who accuses conservatives of not caring about the Country

[Guest]

It's no longer a question of "if" republicans will want to kill this deal. The question is how they will go about failing to do so.

You've stumbled into an interesting point ... it's Obama and the Iranians allied against the Republicans and Israelis

[Guest]

Preliminary Agreement reached. Good Start.

The sad reality is Obama has proven himself multiple times to be untrustworthy.

Thus, I don't trust him nor this "deal" ... it's a pathway to nuclear weapons for Iran and thus nuclear jihad against the US at some point in the future.

In short, by virtue of selling the US down the river with the Iranian agreement, Obama has overtaken Neville Chamberlain as the biggest chump in the last 100 years

[Guest]

Another summary of the content of the framework for agreement.

The article is frought with concern because of vagueness, ambiguity or complete lack of commitment to anything.

The last sentence sums it up .......it doesn't appear that Iran has agreed to anything specific. Now doesn't that sound familiar? An agreement lacking specifics negotiated by an administration that specializes in lack of specificity.

Projecting a signed agreement by 6/30?

Anybody wanna bet?

[Guest]

This link belongs to the above post:

The gray areas in the Iran deal - Michael Crowley - POLITICO (http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/the-gray-areas-in-the-iran-deal-116641.html)

[Guest]

How much is it going to cost the USA? We are broke.

[Guest]

As we all knew he would, he was at the microphones to take his bows. As one reads through the account it becomes worrisome the number of if's and when's that are used. Also the vision of unacceptable alternatives...like do you want this or war?

Anyway here is the overview of his taking his bows, Obama-style:

President Obama (http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/president-obama-iran-nuclear-program-116634.html?ml=tb)

Once again the plight of the imprisoned marine is no where near the table. Maybe Obama is working another Bergdahl-like deal with Iran......something like OK so let em have one bomb?

[Guest]

As we all knew he would, he was at the microphones to take his bows. As one reads through the account it becomes worrisome the number of if's and when's that are used. Also the vision of unacceptable alternatives...like do you want this or war?

Anyway here is the overview of his taking his bows, Obama-style:

President Obama (http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/president-obama-iran-nuclear-program-116634.html?ml=tb)

Once again the plight of the imprisoned marine is no where near the table. Maybe Obama is working another Bergdahl-like deal with Iran......something like OK so let em have one bomb?

What it boils down to is ... Obama is over his head and has given us "peace in our time" ... so disheartening to see this joker as the leader of the Free World even though he doesn't' believe in it and never has.

[Guest]

How much is it going to cost the USA? We are broke.

Probably less than the trillions of dollars it would cost to go to war with Iran, and thousands of lives that would be lost.

[Guest]

Probably less than the trillions of dollars it would cost to go to war with Iran, and thousands of lives that would be lost.

How much will it cost when Iran engages in nuclear jihad against the USA down the road ... say an EMP attack over the Midwest or covert nuke smuggled into New York City?

At that point, money will no longer matter.

[Guest]

How much will it cost when Iran engages in nuclear jihad against the USA down the road ... say an EMP attack over the Midwest or covert nuke smuggled into New York City?

At that point, money will no longer matter.


This is the exact same point made in 2002 to justify going to war in Iraq. If only those inspectors had been given the time they requested to inspect for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the world could look a lot different today, and the US wouldn't have had to borrow trillions of dollars to pay for the war and hundreds of thousands of people would not be dead.

[Guest]

This is the exact same point made in 2002 to justify going to war in Iraq. If only those inspectors had been given the time they requested to inspect for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, the world could look a lot different today, and the US wouldn't have had to borrow trillions of dollars to pay for the war and hundreds of thousands of people would not be dead.

It's not the exact same argument but we've already discussed this several times on this board so we'll "move on."

Bottom line is ... Iran is stringing us along, and Obama is complicit. They will negotiate like rug merchants, and not let the inspectors in. Duh ... who could have guessed? You have to KNOW that Iran WILL cheat which means they will get nukes. It's obvious they will never relent on that. Only the threat of credible military force couple with sanctions will deter them. Why is that so hard for you, and people who are on your side of the political aisle, to understand??

Thus, we are now placed in a path to war, ironically enough, because Israel will strike at some point because Obama has left them no choice, and we will get sucked in. Even while negotiating Iranian leaders said the destruction of Israel was "non-negotiable!! WTF?? Obama doesn't say a word about it? Iran continues to expand it's influence military in Yemen and elsewhere. We are now living in some kind of alternative universe.

Obama will sell this pig in a poke and most credulous low information citizens will say yes, we want peace etc but that's not what they'll get. Democracies never disappoint in this manner ... we get to learn it again the hard way.

On a related comment, if you have any relatives in Israel, now would be a good time for them to start looking for a new place to live.

[Guest]

Again Daniel Henninger said the agreement is irrelevant and cited North Korea's behavior.

General Hayden said the framework Obama agreed to will guarantee Iran has nuke's in one year.

All Iran wanted was to get the sanctions off their backs.

All Obama/ Kerry wanted was to distract what their manifest incompetence has created in the middle east

All liberals want is a way to save face now that they realize Obama is a complete failure, congential liar and has an affinity for the muslim world

Obama is one of the most destructive forces in the world and ironically as it sounds he is still in office because he is black and no one wants to face a liberal kangaroo court and be tried by the liberal media as racist.

Personal Best Regards:

[Guest]

It's not the exact same argument but we've already discussed this several times on this board so we'll "move on."

Bottom line is ... Iran is stringing us along, and Obama is complicit. They will negotiate like rug merchants, and not let the inspectors in. Duh ... who could have guessed? You have to KNOW that Iran WILL cheat which means they will get nukes. It's obvious they will never relent on that. Only the threat of credible military force couple with sanctions will deter them. Why is that so hard for you, and people who are on your side of the political aisle, to understand??

Thus, we are now placed in a path to war, ironically enough, because Israel will strike at some point because Obama has left them no choice, and we will get sucked in. Even while negotiating Iranian leaders said the destruction of Israel was "non-negotiable!! WTF?? Obama doesn't say a word about it? Iran continues to expand it's influence military in Yemen and elsewhere. We are now living in some kind of alternative universe.

Obama will sell this pig in a poke and most credulous low information citizens will say yes, we want peace etc but that's not what they'll get. Democracies never disappoint in this manner ... we get to learn it again the hard way.

On a related comment, if you have any relatives in Israel, now would be a good time for them to start looking for a new place to live.


:bigbow:

[Guest]

Again Daniel Henninger said the agreement is irrelevant and cited North Korea's behavior.

General Hayden said the framework Obama agreed to will guarantee Iran has nuke's in one year.

All Iran wanted was to get the sanctions off their backs.

All Obama/ Kerry wanted was to distract what their manifest incompetence has created in the middle east

All liberals want is a way to save face now that they realize Obama is a complete failure, congential liar and has an affinity for the muslim world

Obama is one of the most destructive forces in the world and ironically as it sounds he is still in office because he is black and no one wants to face a liberal kangaroo court and be tried by the liberal media as racist.

Personal Best Regards:

:agree:

[Guest]

How about a deal that costs trillions of dollars, thousands of lives, and made Iran more powerful. That was the Iraq war deal.

[Guest]

How about a deal that costs trillions of dollars, thousands of lives, and made Iran more powerful. That was the Iraq war deal.

Correct.
Obama handed Iraq over to the junior varsity team of ISSIS. Remember them?
They have spawned into the terrorist force replacing AL Queda......compliments of our own Obama.

If ISSIS is the junior varsity I wonder how he categorizes Iran.

These events have certainly solidified his legacy.....pretend there is no problem....tell we the people there is no problem.....act as though there is no problem.

[Guest]

Again Daniel Henninger said the agreement is irrelevant and cited North Korea's behavior.

General Hayden said the framework Obama agreed to will guarantee Iran has nuke's in one year.

All Iran wanted was to get the sanctions off their backs.

All Obama/ Kerry wanted was to distract what their manifest incompetence has created in the middle east

All liberals want is a way to save face now that they realize Obama is a complete failure, congential liar and has an affinity for the muslim world

Obama is one of the most destructive forces in the world and ironically as it sounds he is still in office because he is black and no one wants to face a liberal kangaroo court and be tried by the liberal media as racist.

Personal Best Regards:

I wonder if other negotiating parties from Russia, France, China, Germany and Iran are getting same kind of negative backlash. They are not black, however, could they also be construed as a complete failure, congenital liar and have an affinity for the muslim world (or he western world for Iran). I always heard "keep your friends close and your enemy closer."

[Guest]

I wonder if other negotiating parties from Russia, France, China, Germany and Iran are getting same kind of negative backlash. They are not black, however, could they also be construed as a complete failure, congenital liar and have an affinity for the muslim world (or he western world for Iran). I always heard "keep your friends close and your enemy closer."

So what is the point.....the USA has a failed nuclear agrrement with Iran because of a black man?

[Guest]

So what is the point.....the USA has a failed nuclear agrrement with Iran because of a black man?

Ahem... 1/2 black man. chilout

[Guest]

It is pretty clear that the goal was an agreement at any cost and the terms of the agreement are secondary. It is more likely than not that this will turn out to be a bad deal for everyone but Iran and we have been played. That is what happens when you send light weights to the negotiating table and Iran knows the goal is an agreement, at any cost, to satisfy a political agenda.

Preliminary Agreement reached. Good Start.

[Guest]

Maybe trump should have went. At least he knows how to make a deal and when to walk away

[Guest]

So what is the point.....the USA has a failed nuclear agrrement with Iran because of a black man?

No, the point is that Iran is negotiating with several world powers and is potentially coming out isolation. Iran is not only negotiating with a black man. This is ground breaking as opposed to the isolationism that was pervasive in the US before WWI and WWII.

[Guest]

Ahem... 1/2 black man. chilout

and that is even more impressive than if he was only black! The US has come a long way! Even the blacks AND whites voted for him.

[Guest]

Has anybody read or heard anything in the agreement that STOPS Iran from working toward or completing a nuclear weapon?

Since they have gone to great lengths to bury and harden where their nuclear work is done.....is it feasable they also have facilities not known to anybody?

A country, Iran, that has sworn to eradicate Israel....has sworn to not deal with infidels.....has sworn to kill Americans and destroy American assets....
openly sponsoring and supported terrorism worldwide.....has stated during the negotiations Iran will not be denied it's nuclear rights....

this is a country to be trusted? By who/whom?

[Guest]

Has anybody read or heard anything in the agreement that STOPS Iran from working toward or completing a nuclear weapon?

Since they have gone to great lengths to bury and harden where their nuclear work is done.....is it feasable they also have facilities not known to anybody?

A country, Iran, that has sworn to eradicate Israel....has sworn to not deal with infidels.....has sworn to kill Americans and destroy American assets....
openly sponsoring and supported terrorism worldwide.....has stated during the negotiations Iran will not be denied it's nuclear rights....

this is a country to be trusted? By who/whom?

No, nothing stops them. The fatal flaw in this agreement is Iran is allowed at some point in the future to attain a nuclear capability. That is equivalent to America signing its own death warrant because it means nuclear jihad becomes inevitable.

[Guest]

No, nothing stops them. The fatal flaw in this agreement is Iran is allowed at some point in the future to attain a nuclear capability. That is equivalent to America signing its own death warrant because it means nuclear jihad becomes inevitable.

Agree 100%.
We Americans are fickle and have very short memories and ready for something new tomorrow.
The terrorists on the other hand are patient in waiting to accomplish their objectives.
How long did it take for them to take a second, more destructive shot at the world trade center?
They will happily wait us out what ever number of years it takes. And we all know it will not be 10 years away.

Obama sure chose a very stupid legacy....aiding and abetting the most radical terrorist country on the planet.

[Guest]

I wonder if other negotiating parties from Russia, France, China, Germany and Iran are getting same kind of negative backlash. They are not black, however, could they also be construed as a complete failure, congenital liar and have an affinity for the muslim world (or he western world for Iran). I always heard "keep your friends close and your enemy closer."

Dear Guest: I didn't say the failure of this negotiation was because Obama is black. I said his manifest incompetence since taking office has been allowed to continue because he is black. and while he has a white mother it is clear that his action manner tone etc show he prefers to be looked upon as black

Finally I am quite familiar with the old saw "keep your friend close and your enemies closer" This is not my first rodeo having been in corporate fights over these many years, and the trick to this old saw is to ascertain "who is friend and who is foe"and to that question Obama has played the fool to more than one of our enemies beginning with Putin....Ï'll have more flexibility once I am reelected" comes to mind

The newspapers are replete with reasons why this is a bad deal so there is no reason for me to repeat them.

Personal Best Regards:

[Guest]

Congress must act because it does not mater who the next president is s/he will have to step back on any agreement



Personal Best Regards

[Guest]

Just out of curiously … why would anyone be inclined to trust the Iranian deal negotiated by Obama and Kerry? It’s the MOST important foreign policy issue in many years.

Yet, it was but a few months ago that this A-Team negotiated the release of five Taliban commanders in exchange for one deserter. Also, as I recall, at the time they further insulted our intelligence by claiming Berghdal was some type of hero when it was obvious to anyone who’s ever served in the military he was a deserter yet they lied about it shamelessly.

So, now with the stakes infinitely higher, how can anyone trust Obama when he says this deal will somehow prevent Iran from getting nukes in a few years … when it’s obvious that’s what’s going to happen unless the Congress or the public steps in and steps up.

[Guest]

It was obvious even before Obama was elected in 2008 that by association alone with the Ayers, Wright etc that this guy was a radical who would wreck the White House which he has effectively done to date. Valerie Jarret is a Muslim born in Iran and a number of Obama's White House staff are Muslims so which way would the guy go but tilt toward the east.

As I stated before Obama unfortunately has proven that just about anyone can be president and with the upcoming 2016 election I am afraid that the liberal left will continue to lie about Republican candidates and Republicans in general as did their majority leader Reid and without shame. the ïts time to elect a woman as president"will be their mantra and the type of voter who gets his/her news from The view will fall for it as they did with the first black president.

Clearly the years of inferior education is finally taking its toll on us

[Guest]

With all the crap that is being spewed from the presumptive Republican candidates, I don't believe they will need any help from the Democrats in killing their chances at the White House. They're doing that quite well on their own.

[Guest]

With all the crap that is being spewed from the presumptive Republican candidates, I don't believe they will need any help from the Democrats in killing their chances at the White House. They're doing that quite well on their own.

:blahblahblah:

:sigh:

[Guest]

Dear Guest: I didn't say the failure of this negotiation was because Obama is black. I said his manifest incompetence since taking office has been allowed to continue because he is black. and while he has a white mother it is clear that his action manner tone etc show he prefers to be looked upon as black

Finally I am quite familiar with the old saw "keep your friend close and your enemies closer" This is not my first rodeo having been in corporate fights over these many years, and the trick to this old saw is to ascertain "who is friend and who is foe"and to that question Obama has played the fool to more than one of our enemies beginning with Putin....Ï'll have more flexibility once I am reelected" comes to mind

The newspapers are replete with reasons why this is a bad deal so there is no reason for me to repeat them.

Personal Best Regards:

The newspapers are also indicating that this framework is very good start on a comprehensive agreement. I do hope that it when it finalized by all the major world powers, our Republican representatives will be able to review it with an open which is more than I can say for several people on TOTV.

[Guest]

somewhere I missed where they were working toward an agreement and then all of a sudden they come out with a framework for an agreement.

Now they will sit on their hands for the next 75 days and then into crunch time again.

Between now and then? Nothing.

[Guest]

somewhere I missed where they were working toward an agreement and then all of a sudden they come out with a framework for an agreement.

Now they will sit on their hands for the next 75 days and then into crunch time again.

Between now and then? Nothing.

Except Iran continues marching toward their nuclear weapon capability.
No wonder Iran's cheif negotiator got a hero's welcome. Kerry rode his bike home.

[Guest]

somewhere I missed where they were working toward an agreement and then all of a sudden they come out with a framework for an agreement.

Now they will sit on their hands for the next 75 days and then into crunch time again.

Between now and then? Nothing.

You are right. Everyone should just go home and let Iran live in peace and work on their nuclear capability. When we have them really desperate, they can test their capability.

[Guest]

somewhere I missed where they were working toward an agreement and then all of a sudden they come out with a framework for an agreement.

Now they will sit on their hands for the next 75 days and then into crunch time again.

Between now and then? Nothing.


Did you miss the last 18 months when all these world powers have been working on an agreement? These negotiations between the US, France, Britain, Russia, China and Iran went on for 18 months and culminated with this framework announced last week.

[Guest]

Did you miss the last 18 months when all these world powers have been working on an agreement? These negotiations between the US, France, Britain, Russia, China and Iran went on for 18 months and culminated with this framework announced last week.

Ah no did not miss the 18 months. That is not what the post was about. The post was pointing out that after 18 months there was a deadline of 3/31/2015 by which there would be an agreement.

And then there were the "extensions" to the 3/31/2015....twice. The outcome of the last 18 months, passing the deadline with extensions twice and a 6/30/2015 agreement sign date.

With as many open issues and agreeing to look at some other items later and some Iran is already stating what they will not give up (in public) does anybody really believe there will be any agreement signed by 6/30/2015?

It took 18 months to get here.......18 months and no agreement? Who is kidding who?

The only progress made was by Iran. They got 18 months closer to building the bomb.

Just mark your calendar and see how hw long it takes to meet again or how often it gets reported the powers that be were in a meeting to make 6/30.
happen.

Don't hold your breath!

[Guest]

Well personally I am glad that Obama has the let the issue in the capable hands of the UN Security council after all they have America's best interests at heart. :cold:

Obama for whatever reason has always gone against or ignored issues that are vital to the survival of this nation. Its clear that his famous America is no more exceptional than........resonates within him and his cult followers

Obama's entire work product has worked against America and Americans. One can refer to it as manifest incompetence or intentional ideology either way the results are the same and we are the worse for it. His believability and likeability are wavering and that's why he promotes selfies and his wife make U tube dance video's

This is a guy who was awe struck with all the perks but forgot that they came with serious responsibilities


Personal Best Regards:

[Guest]

It seems that a Nobel Peace Prize winner should have credence regarding his participation in the agreement. Constantly criticizing the leader of the free world loses its impact after a while.

[Guest]

Well personally I am glad that Obama has the let the issue in the capable hands of the UN Security council after all they have America's best interests at heart. :cold:

Obama for whatever reason has always gone against or ignored issues that are vital to the survival of this nation. Its clear that his famous America is no more exceptional than........resonates within him and his cult followers

Obama's entire work product has worked against America and Americans. One can refer to it as manifest incompetence or intentional ideology either way the results are the same and we are the worse for it. His believability and likeability are wavering and that's why he promotes selfies and his wife make U tube dance video's

This is a guy who was awe struck with all the perks but forgot that they came with serious responsibilities


Personal Best Regards:

All one had to do in 2007/08 is check his and his wife's backgrounds. What they belonged to and stood for. The people yhey socialized and mixed with.
There was/is no secret where he stood then or now. Since winning the 2012 election he of course has become more brazen, more open and even more could care less (if that is possible). No election to risk losing, so he has become the executive order loose cannon.

If the dems should be so lucky to win the 2016 election they will be saddled with all the baggage and damage Obama leaves behind. And who is it the new POTUS will blame......oh wahat a hot potatoe that would be.
This is probably why dems are a little reluctant to step forward to run.
Except for Clinton....another one who does not care what she does. Just stusy her behavior for the last four years.

And since Obama is a camera, microphone media hound we will see a lot more of him than any other past POTUS.

[Guest]

Ah no did not miss the 18 months. That is not what the post was about. The post was pointing out that after 18 months there was a deadline of 3/31/2015 by which there would be an agreement.

And then there were the "extensions" to the 3/31/2015....twice. The outcome of the last 18 months, passing the deadline with extensions twice and a 6/30/2015 agreement sign date.

With as many open issues and agreeing to look at some other items later and some Iran is already stating what they will not give up (in public) does anybody really believe there will be any agreement signed by 6/30/2015?

It took 18 months to get here.......18 months and no agreement? Who is kidding who?

The only progress made was by Iran. They got 18 months closer to building the bomb.

Just mark your calendar and see how hw long it takes to meet again or how often it gets reported the powers that be were in a meeting to make 6/30.
happen.

Don't hold your breath!

What would be different if the world powers and Iran had not been talking these last six months. Probably even more entrenched in their beliefs than some of the posters on TOTV!

[Guest]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest View Post
Well personally I am glad that Obama has the let the issue in the capable hands of the UN Security council after all they have America's best interests at heart.

Obama for whatever reason has always gone against or ignored issues that are vital to the survival of this nation. Its clear that his famous America is no more exceptional than........resonates within him and his cult followers

Obama's entire work product has worked against America and Americans. One can refer to it as manifest incompetence or intentional ideology either way the results are the same and we are the worse for it. His believability and likeability are wavering and that's why he promotes selfies and his wife make U tube dance video's

This is a guy who was awe struck with all the perks but forgot that they came with serious responsibilities


Personal Best Regards:

===========


All one had to do in 2007/08 is check his and his wife's backgrounds. What they belonged to and stood for. The people yhey socialized and mixed with.
There was/is no secret where he stood then or now. Since winning the 2012 election he of course has become more brazen, more open and even more could care less (if that is possible). No election to risk losing, so he has become the executive order loose cannon.

If the dems should be so lucky to win the 2016 election they will be saddled with all the baggage and damage Obama leaves behind. And who is it the new POTUS will blame......oh wahat a hot potatoe that would be.
This is probably why dems are a little reluctant to step forward to run.
Except for Clinton....another one who does not care what she does. Just stusy her behavior for the last four years.

And since Obama is a camera, microphone media hound we will see a lot more of him than any other past POTUS.

=========


Two great posts!

:BigApplause:

[Guest]

You guys are all a bunch of talking heads.

I'll take the last 7 years of Obama, any day, over the 8 years of the Bush Administration.

If you're honest with yourself, the country is much better off that it was in 2007/2008.

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled bashing.

[Guest]

You guys are all a bunch of talking heads.

I'll take the last 7 years of Obama, any day, over the 8 years of the Bush Administration.

If you're honest with yourself, the country is much better off that it was in 2007/2008.

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled bashing.


Some people can't stand peace and prosperity. They much prefer wars and recessions. They must have been really miserable during the go-go years of the Clinton presidency with no long drawn out wars.

[Guest]

Some people can't stand peace and prosperity. They much prefer wars and recessions. They must have been really miserable during the go-go years of the Clinton presidency with no long drawn out wars.

Ah yes... the years of Newt Gingrich, a RESPONSIBLE Republican Congress and the CONTRACT WITH AMERICA. Clinton signed welfare reform... whew, remember that?

Remember balanced budgets? Heck, even a surplus under Gingrich!

:BigApplause:

Compare this with the out of control crazy socialist spending of Obummer! :(

[Guest]

I would certainly trust the international panel Working so hard on a nuclear deal rather than a mob of congressman bent on blocking all actions by the current administration. Also, if any allies publicly try to manipulate our democratic processes should no longer be considered a friend and support for them should be in question.

[Guest]

I would certainly trust the international panel Working so hard on a nuclear deal rather than a mob of congressman bent on blocking all actions by the current administration. Also, if any allies publicly try to manipulate our democratic processes should no longer be considered a friend and support for them should be in question.

So the only option is to go along with what ever is proposed without question or concern or one is the opposition or a bad person or country?

No thanks. If it is a good deal it will with stand the scrutiny of the experts. The peanut gallery (suuporters and opposition alike) are noise on the curve.
To dispute those who challenge or question is to defy freedom and democracy.
There are too many who have no concept of exactly what the mechanics of a true negotiation involve.

In politics negotiations is misconstrued to mean if you are with me you are OK if not you are the opposition.....period, end of subject.

Politicians in negotiations have little to do with a MUTUAL objective.

[Guest]

Sometimes, going to war is not the right action. Hurray for the negotiators that came to an alternative agreement.. We can always bomb them for what they do, rather than what some group thinks they might possibly do. Keep in mind that the US has a huge stockpile of nuclear weapons that can be easily shot off should we elect a hawk rather than a a sensible person.

[Guest]

Sometimes, going to war is not the right action. Hurray for the negotiators that came to an alternative agreement.. We can always bomb them for what they do, rather than what some group thinks they might possibly do. Keep in mind that the US has a huge stockpile of nuclear weapons that can be easily shot off should we elect a hawk rather than a a sensible person.

They did not reach an agreement. They have an outline. WHo knows how long it will take to reach an agreement.

And it is not rather what some folks think they will do.....the big concern is they are determined to do what they promised to do...eliminate Israel and kill infidels.

Must be something some do not understand about what the Iranian terrorism's stated goals are.

[Guest]

They did not reach an agreement. They have an outline. WHo knows how long it will take to reach an agreement.

And it is not rather what some folks think they will do.....the big concern is they are determined to do what they promised to do...eliminate Israel and kill infidels.

Must be something some do not understand about what the Iranian terrorism's stated goals are.

Not to be disagreeable, but they, Iran , have not done anything yet. I am happy to report that the US has not bombed them YET either. We're all just flexing our muscles. I hope the U.S. thinks long and hard before we involve our nation in yet another conflict in the Middle East. We must protect the United states first, then if we have the will and resources Isreal second. Isreal is a friend, but not our AT ANY COST responsibility. They create some of the reasons they are so hated over there.

[Guest]

You guys are all a bunch of talking heads.

I'll take the last 7 years of Obama, any day, over the 8 years of the Bush Administration.

If you're honest with yourself, the country is much better off that it was in 2007/2008.

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled bashing.

Let me get this straight you prefer the last 7 years of leading from behind, continually moving red lines, throwing people under the bus, destroying relationships with important allies, lying directly and intentionally to citizens... like you can keep your.......... holding countries like Iran to their demands, being ineffective in getting this economy growing since the recession ended 2009 , ignoring the Constitution, ignoring Congress but romancing KGB Putin, denying Islamic terrorist exist, as leader the agencies under you IRS, DOJ, State Department have acted illegally or not acted at all.....I gotta stop here because I am getting tired ..If that's what you prefer Dear Guest than you appear to be a glutton for punishment....and if that is your cup of tea you are going to love Hillary.

Personal Best Regards:

[Guest]

Let me get this straight you prefer the last 7 years of leading from behind, continually moving red lines, throwing people under the bus, destroying relationships with important allies, lying directly and intentionally to citizens... like you can keep your.......... holding countries like Iran to their demands, being ineffective in getting this economy growing since the recession ended 2009 , ignoring the Constitution, ignoring Congress but romancing KGB Putin, denying Islamic terrorist exist, as leader the agencies under you IRS, DOJ, State Department have acted illegally or not acted at all.....I gotta stop here because I am getting tired ..If that's what you prefer Dear Guest than you appear to be a glutton for punishment....and if that is your cup of tea you are going to love Hillary.

Personal Best Regards:

I am so sorry too feel the pain you are going though. Please consider looking at this issue with a different attitude. I am pleased with the way things in the financial and government programs areas are developing. I try to see your point of view, but for my family, it just is not there. We are doing better year by year over the past several years in all areas of our life. Our stock portfolio has came back to a very favorable position. We have several grandchildren that are benifiting greatly with their health insurance and Job opportunities.

Again, I am sorry all is so bleak in your life, but I am SURE the majority of Americans are doing better.

[Guest]

I would certainly trust the international panel Working so hard on a nuclear deal rather than a mob of congressman bent on blocking all actions by the current administration. Also, if any allies publicly try to manipulate our democratic processes should no longer be considered a friend and support for them should be in question.

Wow, talk about credulous ... impressive job of self deception.

[Guest]

Let me get this straight you prefer the last 7 years of leading from behind, continually moving red lines, throwing people under the bus, destroying relationships with important allies, lying directly and intentionally to citizens... like you can keep your.......... holding countries like Iran to their demands, being ineffective in getting this economy growing since the recession ended 2009 , ignoring the Constitution, ignoring Congress but romancing KGB Putin, denying Islamic terrorist exist, as leader the agencies under you IRS, DOJ, State Department have acted illegally or not acted at all.....I gotta stop here because I am getting tired ..If that's what you prefer Dear Guest than you appear to be a glutton for punishment....and if that is your cup of tea you are going to love Hillary.

Personal Best Regards:

That is some list of teeth grinders you have there. And the list keeps growing. I suggest putting together a T chart listing plusses on one side and minuses on the other. And try to keep it balanced like doing an equation. At the end of the exercise you may have a whole new perspective.

[Guest]

Let me get this straight you prefer the last 7 years of leading from behind, continually moving red lines, throwing people under the bus, destroying relationships with important allies, lying directly and intentionally to citizens... like you can keep your.......... holding countries like Iran to their demands, being ineffective in getting this economy growing since the recession ended 2009 , ignoring the Constitution, ignoring Congress but romancing KGB Putin, denying Islamic terrorist exist, as leader the agencies under you IRS, DOJ, State Department have acted illegally or not acted at all.....I gotta stop here because I am getting tired ..If that's what you prefer Dear Guest than you appear to be a glutton for punishment....and if that is your cup of tea you are going to love Hillary.

Personal Best Regards:

Awesome post!

:bigbow:

[Guest]

I am so sorry too feel the pain you are going though. Please consider looking at this issue with a different attitude. I am pleased with the way things in the financial and government programs areas are developing. I try to see your point of view, but for my family, it just is not there. We are doing better year by year over the past several years in all areas of our life. Our stock portfolio has came back to a very favorable position. We have several grandchildren that are benifiting greatly with their health insurance and Job opportunities.

Again, I am sorry all is so bleak in your life, but I am SURE the majority of Americans are doing better.

Typical juvenile, patronizing liberal retort. He didn't say the laundry list of Obama failures was affecting him PERSONALLY (reading comprehension lacking on your part) but your entire response was typical (it's ALL ABOUT ME!). Never did you mention what was best for America, its citizens or its future. See the self-centered difference?

[Guest]

Typical juvenile, patronizing liberal retort. He didn't say the laundry list of Obama failures was affecting him PERSONALLY (reading comprehension lacking on your part) but your entire response was typical (it's ALL ABOUT ME!). Never did you mention what was best for America, its citizens or its future. See the self-centered difference?

I am sorry you are so angry, but be assured, the vast majority of Americans are doing better now. I pray life will improve for you and your family.

[Guest]

Not to be disagreeable, but they, Iran , have not done anything yet. I am happy to report that the US has not bombed them YET either. We're all just flexing our muscles. I hope the U.S. thinks long and hard before we involve our nation in yet another conflict in the Middle East. We must protect the United states first, then if we have the will and resources Isreal second. Isreal is a friend, but not our AT ANY COST responsibility. They create some of the reasons they are so hated over there.

Not to sound like some who have to have a link to "show me" where one gets their information, BUT.......just look at what the Iranians have done with their nuclear program. Do some believe the so called team put together to negotiate with Iran is because the have not done anything yet.

How about the number of centrifuges they have added over the past 3-5 years?
How about the dispersion of their nuclear development and research facilites?
How about the going deep underground to not be reachable by those who would act against their march toward nuclear capability?
How about their open claim to annihalate Israel and prepare to do so?
What would we call their intention to destroy, kill and terrorize infedels?

Just to name a few. I do not believe there are many who would agree with or clain that Iran has not done anything.

Far from it.

[Guest]

I am sorry you are so angry, but be assured, the vast majority of Americans are doing better now. I pray life will improve for you and your family.

:1rotfl:

I accept liberalism is a bonafide mental illness, so it is I who pray for you!

:pray:


Long ago, a mentor taught me how to prosper no matter who was running the country. Rest assured, Obama has been VERY GOOD to me and my family, and the source of a couple million laughs, for which I'm very grateful.

But unlike you, I care about my country, not just my personal situation. Thank you for the offer of prayer and I will gratefully accept it, if your heart is pure.

Please consider all those more needy who have suffered needlessly under a failed Obama administration. Please pray for the future unborn generations of Americans with whom your misguided beliefs have unduly burdened with repayment... $20 TRILLION and growing by 2016. I thank you for your offer of prayer, but those coming behind us have one hell of a tab to pay off.

[Guest]

The essence of the Iran agreement is that Obama has made the world more, not less, dangerous.

The predictable result is Iran will get a nuclear capability and “legalized” thanks to the agreement (assuming the Congress is unable to stop it). This will start a nuclear arms race in the Middle East, with Saudi Arabia forced to go nuclear as well. It also inevitably incentivizes Israel to go preemptive which means we get dragged into it.

Iran, as people tend to forget, is not only a crazy that is to say a Radical Islamic state, it also has historical links to the Nazi Germany, and Adolph Hitler in particular. Why this is not more commonly known is a mystery to me. What a perfect match … Nazism and Radical Islam. Persia after all literally means “Land of the Aryans”

Two questions for the credulous Obamaphiles:

1. Does anyone think this deal will prevent Iran from getting nukes at some point?

2. Once they have nukes, does anyone believe the Iranians will refrain from using them (covertly) in nuclear jihad?

[Guest]

The essence of the Iran agreement is that Obama has made the world more, not less, dangerous.

The predictable result is Iran will get a nuclear capability and “legalized” thanks to the agreement (assuming the Congress is unable to stop it). This will start a nuclear arms race in the Middle East, with Saudi Arabia forced to go nuclear as well. It also inevitably incentivizes Israel to go preemptive which means we get dragged into it.

Iran, as people tend to forget, is not only a crazy that is to say a Radical Islamic state, it also has historical links to the Nazi Germany, and Adolph Hitler in particular. Why this is not more commonly known is a mystery to me. What a perfect match … Nazism and Radical Islam. Persia after all literally means “Land of the Aryans”

Two questions for the credulous Obamaphiles:

1. Does anyone think this deal will prevent Iran from getting nukes at some point?

2. Once they have nukes, does anyone believe the Iranians will refrain from using them (covertly) in nuclear jihad?

Now let us see how many pages of BS you get of course excluding an answer to your questions.

[Guest]

The essence of the Iran agreement is that Obama has made the world more, not less, dangerous.

The predictable result is Iran will get a nuclear capability and “legalized” thanks to the agreement (assuming the Congress is unable to stop it). This will start a nuclear arms race in the Middle East, with Saudi Arabia forced to go nuclear as well. It also inevitably incentivizes Israel to go preemptive which means we get dragged into it.

Iran, as people tend to forget, is not only a crazy that is to say a Radical Islamic state, it also has historical links to the Nazi Germany, and Adolph Hitler in particular. Why this is not more commonly known is a mystery to me. What a perfect match … Nazism and Radical Islam. Persia after all literally means “Land of the Aryans”

Two questions for the credulous Obamaphiles:

1. Does anyone think this deal will prevent Iran from getting nukes at some point?

2. Once they have nukes, does anyone believe the Iranians will refrain from using them (covertly) in nuclear jihad?

Saudi Arabia welcomes Iran nuclear deal, seeks region free of WMD: statement | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/06/us-iran-nuclear-saudi-idUSKBN0MX0PO20150406)


Apparently you missed the announcement on Monday that Saudi Arabia's cabinet announced it is supporting the nuclear arms framework with Iran and hopes that an agreement can rid the area of weapons of mass destruction.

[Guest]

Saudi Arabia welcomes Iran nuclear deal, seeks region free of WMD: statement | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/06/us-iran-nuclear-saudi-idUSKBN0MX0PO20150406)


Apparently you missed the announcement on Monday that Saudi Arabia's cabinet announced it is supporting the nuclear arms framework with Iran and hopes that an agreement can rid the area of weapons of mass destruction.

No didn't miss it at all ... I think that is purely for public consumption (which you obviously did) but given the Sunni - Shia rift that goes back 1,400 years, and given the shifting alliances and balance of power, my observation about a nuclear arms race is correct.

You see, sometimes governments say certain things, and then actually do something different. Can you believe it?

[Guest]

How would posters in favor of pounding a mud hole in Iran feel if the United Nations voted to have the United States disban our entire nuclear arsenal. Remember glass houses.

[Guest]

How would posters in favor of pounding a mud hole in Iran feel if the United Nations voted to have the United States disban our entire nuclear arsenal. Remember glass houses.

Let me guess ... deep down in the inner recesses of your tortured, liberal secular soul, you think America is THE problem in the world? Only someone with that mindset and view of the world could ask such an inane question.

[Guest]

Let me guess ... deep down in the inner recesses of your tortured, liberal secular soul, you think America is THE problem in the world? Only someone with that mindset and view of the world could ask such an inane question.

If we ever put a hard right person in charge, we will be a bigger threat than Iran. I AM A CONSERVATIVE, but that does not mean I must support war t every turn. The United States needs to keep its nose out of the Middle East.

[Guest]

Let me guess ... deep down in the inner recesses of your tortured, liberal secular soul, you think America is THE problem in the world? Only someone with that mindset and view of the world could ask such an inane question.

You guys never miss an opportunity call names. Last time I checked, we are the only country to ever use an atomic weapon.

[Guest]

You guys never miss an opportunity call names. Last time I checked, we are the only country to ever use an atomic weapon.

Yes. And we killed tens of thousands of innocent people. Some think that being American gives us the badge, the judgement ability and executioner when any other country does something we disagree with. I love this country and have fought for America in Combat. I have also traveled extensively and have lived all over the globe.

We are thought of as meddling bullies in many places.

Because of birth, family ties and more, I choose to live in America, BUT, I can not honestly say America is better than any other nation. I also think God loves other nations citizens every bit as much as us.

[Guest]

You guys never miss an opportunity call names. Last time I checked, we are the only country to ever use an atomic weapon.

You don't seem to recall the circumstances under which we used the atomic bomb. Please give us your revisionist analysis and tell us why we should have invaded Japan with ground troops instead.

[Guest]

Yes. And we killed tens of thousands of innocent people. Some think that being American gives us the badge, the judgement ability and executioner when any other country does something we disagree with. I love this country and have fought for America in Combat. I have also traveled extensively and have lived all over the globe.

We are thought of as meddling bullies in many places.

Because of birth, family ties and more, I choose to live in America, BUT, I can not honestly say America is better than any other nation. I also think God loves other nations citizens every bit as much as us.

Then you fully agree with Obama when he says every country is exceptional. That's fine and your right .. .under our exceptional constitutional protections.

I wonder if the French or Brits think of us as meddling bullies ...ie given that they would be speaking German now except for the American military.

Just out of curiosity, since you're here by an accident of birth, where would you prefer to live if you could?

[Guest]

If we ever put a hard right person in charge, we will be a bigger threat than Iran. I AM A CONSERVATIVE, but that does not mean I must support war t every turn. The United States needs to keep its nose out of the Middle East.

If you think being a conservative means supporting war at every turn, then you OBVIOUSLY don't have a clue about what being a conservative even means. The whole idea here is we are best off if we deter war through strength and resolve, vs invite it through weakness and being irresolute.

Speaking of putting a hard right guy in charge, as I recall Reagan came into power in 1981 and the Soviet Union dissolved about 10 years later. Have you ever thought about why that occurred?

[Guest]

Then you fully agree with Obama when he says every country is exceptional. That's fine and your right .. .under our exceptional constitutional protections.yes I do. We should respect them as we insist they respect us.

I wonder if the French or Brits think of us as meddling bullies ...ie given that they would be speaking German now except for the American military.

Just out of curiosity, since you're here by an accident of birth, where would you prefer to live if you could?

i wi go with Florida. It is an international vacation land here in Florida. Just don't wonder too far off the major highways. LOL

[Guest]

If you think being a conservative means supporting war at every turn, then you OBVIOUSLY don't have a clue about what being a conservative even means. The whole idea here is we are best off if we deter war through strength and resolve, vs invite it through weakness and being irresolute.

Speaking of putting a hard right guy in charge, as I recall Reagan came into power in 1981 and the Soviet Union dissolved about 10 years later. Have you ever thought about why that occurred?

I believe he did that through negotiation just like the current administration is doing in Iran. Not sure if you had a point there or you were adding validation to my suggestion to talk and not rattle sabers.

[Guest]

I believe he did that through negotiation just like the current administration is doing in Iran. Not sure if you had a point there or you were adding validation to my suggestion to talk and not rattle sabers.

With all due respect, Reagan negotiated from a position of strength. The ABM system and deployment of the Pershings to Europe was called saber rattling at the time interestingly enough. I think some find the use of strength to be frightening at some level, whereas others are hopelessly wrapped up with moral equivalence coupled with liberal guilt. Not saying that describes you but it certainly does a number of recent posters on this thread imho.

Back to topic, Obama's upbringing was fundamentally anti-Western and we're seeing the fruits of that now. He is by no means negotiating from strength because it's obvious that iran does not fear him ... why should they?

[Guest]

With all due respect, Reagan negotiated from a position of strength. The ABM system and deployment of the Pershings to Europe was called saber rattling at the time interestingly enough. I think some find the use of strength to be frightening at some level, whereas others are hopelessly wrapped up with moral equivalence coupled with liberal guilt. Not saying that describes you but it certainly does a number of recent posters on this thread imho.

Back to topic, Obama's upbringing was fundamentally anti-Western and we're seeing the fruits of that now. He is by no means negotiating from strength because it's obvious that iran does not fear him ... why should they?

Does Iran fear the other countries that are part of this framework; Russia, China, Germany, France, and the UK?

[Guest]

Does Iran fear the other countries that are part of this framework; Russia, China, Germany, France, and the UK?

No they don't. Iran does want to get rid of the sanctions. But they know with Obama as the leader, they can safely assume the threat of military force is not on the table.

Why is the concept of peace through strength so hard for some people to accept anyways? Historically speaking it's obvious that it works and is the best way to avoid war.

[Guest]

No they don't. Iran does want to get rid of the sanctions. But they know with Obama as the leader, they can safely assume the threat of military force is not on the table.

Why is the concept of peace through strength so hard for some people to accept anyways? Historically speaking it's obvious that it works and is the best way to avoid war.

How much stronger do we need to be? We spend almost a TRILLION dollar on defense each year. We spend more on the military than any other country in the world, so I believe we are always in a position of strength.

At some point, you just have to let countries fight it out among themselves. Probably, one of the worst things to happen was removing Saddam Hussain from power in Iraq. He kept the warring factions at bay, including Iran.

But, hindsight is always 20/20

[Guest]

How much stronger do we need to be? We spend almost a TRILLION dollar on defense each year. We spend more on the military than any other country in the world, so I believe we are always in a position of strength.

At some point, you just have to let countries fight it out among themselves. Probably, one of the worst things to happen was removing Saddam Hussain from power in Iraq. He kept the warring factions at bay, including Iran.

But, hindsight is always 20/20

I have no problem with other countries fighting it out if we don't have a strategic interest ... ie fully agree on that point.

But, it doesn't really matter how much we spend on defense if our enemy has no fear of our leader using or threating to use it. Deterrence is a combination of capability and intentions. In other words, Iran has no reason to be afraid of us and thus we lose the ability to deter their aggressive behavior. Does that seem reasonable to you?

[Guest]

I have no problem with other countries fighting it out if we don't have a strategic interest ... ie fully agree on that point.

But, it doesn't really matter how much we spend on defense if our enemy has no fear of our leader using or threating to use it. Deterrence is a combination of capability and intentions. In other words, Iran has no reason to be afraid of us and thus we lose the ability to deter their aggressive behavior. Does that seem reasonable to you?

That does seem reasonable to me.

However, I don't believe the first effort should be a military offensive or even the threat. What the 5+1 have done, with Iran, is the right thing to do. I hold out hope that Iran would like to join the world community and become more prosperous. The people in Iran are hurting from the sanctions. They have worked or Iran wouldn't be at the table. It will take congressional approval to remove sanctions, that is the congressional role. They have no role in developing an agreement. That responsibility is squarely on the Executive branch of government.

I just don't happen to believe we are in such a position of weakness as some on this board.

[Guest]

I do not think we have to make a threat if we portrayed a strong entity that have a history for winning world wars....have the wher with all to take down any country in the world......and with that conveyed a don't tread on me or my people or my friends or else we will sting you bad.

We are no longer that caliber world power.
We have all the capabilities and have made it known around the world we will not use force even when our citizens are being murdered by terrorists.

We are the paper tiger. Unlike the King of Jordan who responded to the killing of his people within 24 hours. And now the Arabs are going into battle to protect their own.

While we wait and watch......as demonstrated time and again over the past 6 years.

Our enemies have us pegged for what we have earned....wimp status.

[Guest]

LOL. Lucifer is a hawk. Jesus was a dove. I will go with Jesus and leave my future to him. All the talk about streaghth and fear, will never be the best way to obtain peace. I will pray for the Hawks to change their ways and repent from their violent ways. If you show your brother love you will not have to kill him. If I am wrong, I would rather die than murder my fellow man.

[Guest]

That does seem reasonable to me.

However, I don't believe the first effort should be a military offensive or even the threat. What the 5+1 have done, with Iran, is the right thing to do. I hold out hope that Iran would like to join the world community and become more prosperous. The people in Iran are hurting from the sanctions. They have worked or Iran wouldn't be at the table. It will take congressional approval to remove sanctions, that is the congressional role. They have no role in developing an agreement. That responsibility is squarely on the Executive branch of government.

I just don't happen to believe we are in such a position of weakness as some on this board.

God Bless you for your sensible comment. This site desperately needs more of your well thought out posts. Violence should, NO MUST be the last action. In 2015, we are not serving the population of earth with the way of God when we call for killing before peaceful negotiation.

[Guest]

LOL. Lucifer is a hawk. Jesus was a dove. I will go with Jesus and leave my future to him. All the talk about streaghth and fear, will never be the best way to obtain peace. I will pray for the Hawks to change their ways and repent from their violent ways. If you show your brother love you will not have to kill him. If I am wrong, I would rather die than murder my fellow man.

Pacifism in the age of Radical Islam is a effective strategy for national suicide. Mohammed was a warrior and his followers still believe in spreading the religion by the sword.

Interestingly I was reading a history of the Crusades today. Does anyone recall that the entire Middle East and North Africa all used to be Christian? Unfortunately, for them and us, the Muslims slaughtered and fought their way to victory. In other words, the hawks devoured the doves.

A better religious philosophy is "Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition"

Sorry ... that's just the way the imperfect world is

[Guest]

LOL. Lucifer is a hawk. Jesus was a dove. I will go with Jesus and leave my future to him. All the talk about streaghth and fear, will never be the best way to obtain peace. I will pray for the Hawks to change their ways and repent from their violent ways. If you show your brother love you will not have to kill him. If I am wrong, I would rather die than murder my fellow man.

Go back and read the post. There was not a word said about killing anybody.

And what should we do about Jihadi John and his collection of American heads from his fellow man?

[Guest]

That does seem reasonable to me.

...I hold out hope that Iran would like to join the world community and become more prosperous. ....

It's one thing to "hope" for this but it's not a strategy by which to deter a Radical Islamic regime. Don't forget ... it's a genuine theocracy thus their militant faith is what drives them. I think you are projecting Western liberal values onto a fundamentalist medieval-oriented regime except it is armed to the teeth with modern weapons.

[Guest]

Recently two questions were asked on this thread regarding the Iran deal. Here they are again by way of quick summary:

1. Does anyone think this deal will prevent Iran from getting nukes at some point?

2. Once they have nukes, does anyone believe the Iranians will refrain from using them (covertly) in nuclear jihad.

Up until today, no posters have responded. But, President Obama apparently reads the TOTV Political Blog because he has now answered the first question.

Turns out it is NO … ie the deal WILL allow Iran to get nukes down the road. (my reaction: what a surprise and who could have possibly known??)


Here’s what Obama said:
“What is a more relevant fear would be that in Year 13, 14, 15, they have advanced centrifuges that enrich uranium fairly rapidly, and at that point, the breakout times would have shrunk almost down to zero."

So now we need someone to answer question 2.

[Guest]

It's one thing to "hope" for this but it's not a strategy by which to deter a Radical Islamic regime. Don't forget ... it's a genuine theocracy thus their militant faith is what drives them. I think you are projecting Western liberal values onto a fundamentalist medieval-oriented regime except it is armed to the teeth with modern weapons.

I didn't say it was a strategy. I said "I Hope", as in me, the private citizen. I'm not the Secretary of State or the President.

The Iranians have a relatively new government and the people are struggling under the collapse of oil prices and sanctions from the international community. "I HOPE" they would like to see a better future for their people than what they currently have.

All I can do is "guess" what might happen, just like everyone else on this board.

[Guest]

I didn't say it was a strategy. I said "I Hope", as in me, the private citizen. I'm not the Secretary of State or the President.

The Iranians have a relatively new government and the people are struggling under the collapse of oil prices and sanctions from the international community. "I HOPE" they would like to see a better future for their people than what they currently have.

All I can do is "guess" what might happen, just like everyone else on this board.

Have you taken a look at North Korea in recent years. That is how much Iran worries about a better life for their people. Zero. Nada. Same values as NK.....gimme the N bomb and a palace.
A dose of reality is sorely needed by some!

[Guest]

Have you taken a look at North Korea in recent years. That is how much Iran worries about a better life for their people. Zero. Nada. Same values as NK.....gimme the N bomb and a palace.
A dose of reality is sorely needed by some!

Take your dose of reality. You cannot speak about your knowledge unless you have seen it personally.

[Guest]

Take your dose of reality. You cannot speak about your knowledge unless you have seen it personally.

Surely you jest.
Then you are inferring all accounts of RECOED regarding North Koreas lack of caring for it's people are incorrect.
You also infer more crdibilty for Iran's care of it's people because of.......what is it that we missed?
You are entitled to your opinion. You just happen to be wrong on this issue. It happens.

[Guest]

Take your dose of reality. You cannot speak about your knowledge unless you have seen it personally.

Some people, apparently including you based on your comments, simply REFUSE to "take a dose of reality." This mindset genuinely defies logic and common sense. Maybe you can explain where it comes from? Is it religious, political, philosophical or what?

Ben Franklin once said the following and it applies to people like you who "refuse' to learn or accept the obvious based on the experience of others. ""Experience is a teacher whom the wise will consult as rarely as possible" meaning that learning things the hard way is not the smart way. Do you need to "experience" the whiff of cordite smoke, or the heat of a blast to understand we are at potential danger down the road.??

I think some (maybe you, not sure) are simply, and understandably, afraid of the threats we face. They are indeed sobering. Thus, the least scary way to deal with it is to deny they exist.

[Guest]

I didn't say it was a strategy. I said "I Hope", as in me, the private citizen. I'm not the Secretary of State or the President.

The Iranians have a relatively new government and the people are struggling under the collapse of oil prices and sanctions from the international community. "I HOPE" they would like to see a better future for their people than what they currently have.

All I can do is "guess" what might happen, just like everyone else on this board.

You are suffering from the delusion that the "people" of Iran have a voice in the matter. The last time they raised their voices, the government crushed them. Obama also ignored them for that matter.

[Guest]

You are suffering from the delusion that the "people" of Iran have a voice in the matter. The last time they raised their voices, the government crushed them. Obama also ignored them for that matter.

Iranians have a new President that appears to be a bit more moderate than the previous. All news coming out of Iran has been very positive, concerning the potential future agreement. At least, the news I have seen.

I don't believe I am delusional. I'm not an uneducated person; have travel the world and lived in many foreign countries, during my career. Certainly, I am not an expert on foreign policy, but like others, I have an opinion. I simply don't subscribe to the apocalyptic scenerio that others describe on this board.

[Guest]

Iranians have a new President that appears to be a bit more moderate than the previous. All news coming out of Iran has been very positive, concerning the potential future agreement. At least, the news I have seen.

I don't believe I am delusional. I'm not an uneducated person; have travel the world and lived in many foreign countries, during my career. Certainly, I am not an expert on foreign policy, but like others, I have an opinion. I simply don't subscribe to the apocalyptic scenerio that others describe on this board.

That may be what you see, think or conclude but in most cases is incorrect.
Some of us are in fact learning and have learned from the past. Some obviously have not or sa you said simply ignore it.

North Korea is a perfect eaxample, like it or not. The status of the people are not a priority. Proven time and time again. They also round up and kill those who disagree with them.

I am afraid you are assigning too much hope on Iran's new leader who is merely the public face of Iran. The same Ayotallah and his followers are in real command. They have shown no hesitation to put down and kill those of their people who do not conform. Their belief is if you are not one of them you are inferior....an infidel.....and they belive infidels should be removed.

Back to North Korea....how many agreements have the been a party to signing? Many over the years, usually tied to wanting something in return. Then to only violate and go back to their original ways. This mentality has survived the old guard and the very youngest of them. One can hope there will be change here too......but I think we have learned.

The only reason Iran is in the negotiations is to get the economic sanctions lifted. Period end of any need for much analysis. They too have shown their heritage and their legacy is that of Islam without any doubt. They are most definitely playing Obama and the others involved. They are sponsors of terrorism who would anihalate us in a heart beat...they have said they would.

Feel free to cling to your hope.

Another model? Take a look at Syria. Another country that does not hesitate one nano second to eliminate whole segments of their population if they are deemed unworthy. The too are sponsers of terrorism in the world. We have negotiated, played nice nice with the leadership only for them to continue supporting those who openly claim to remove us from the face of the planet.

Nuclear deterrance has served the USA and it's adversaries for many, many years. The thought of mutual self destruction has been the stabalizing catalyst. The radicals who are involved in Iran, Syria and North Korea would not be deterred by something like deterrance. By their very actions for hundreds of years they will use the weapons they have.

By the way while you are hoping, why is it OK for Iran to want to have nuclear weapons?

[Guest]

That may be what you see, think or conclude but in most cases is incorrect.
Some of us are in fact learning and have learned from the past. Some obviously have not or sa you said simply ignore it.

North Korea is a perfect eaxample, like it or not. The status of the people are not a priority. Proven time and time again. They also round up and kill those who disagree with them.

I am afraid you are assigning too much hope on Iran's new leader who is merely the public face of Iran. The same Ayotallah and his followers are in real command. They have shown no hesitation to put down and kill those of their people who do not conform. Their belief is if you are not one of them you are inferior....an infidel.....and they belive infidels should be removed.

Back to North Korea....how many agreements have the been a party to signing? Many over the years, usually tied to wanting something in return. Then to only violate and go back to their original ways. This mentality has survived the old guard and the very youngest of them. One can hope there will be change here too......but I think we have learned.

The only reason Iran is in the negotiations is to get the economic sanctions lifted. Period end of any need for much analysis. They too have shown their heritage and their legacy is that of Islam without any doubt. They are most definitely playing Obama and the others involved. They are sponsors of terrorism who would anihalate us in a heart beat...they have said they would.

Feel free to cling to your hope.

Another model? Take a look at Syria. Another country that does not hesitate one nano second to eliminate whole segments of their population if they are deemed unworthy. The too are sponsers of terrorism in the world. We have negotiated, played nice nice with the leadership only for them to continue supporting those who openly claim to remove us from the face of the planet.

Nuclear deterrance has served the USA and it's adversaries for many, many years. The thought of mutual self destruction has been the stabalizing catalyst. The radicals who are involved in Iran, Syria and North Korea would not be deterred by something like deterrance. By their very actions for hundreds of years they will use the weapons they have.

By the way while you are hoping, why is it OK for Iran to want to have nuclear weapons?

Excellent post ... the bothersome thing is you would think this would be intuitive and even self evident. But, even after you lay it out, some leftward leaning souls will still opt for "hope" or for "the people" to sort things out.

I'm reminded of the line from American Sniper where the Dad is teaching the young boys there are three types of animals in the world: wolf, sheep and sheep dogs.

No matter what one says, about the only time the sheep finally understand the realities is when they become the wolves' dinner.