Fire Department Charges

[rdmills]

I was not aware until our neighbor had a fire, that our insurance company (we) are charged for fire service in Sumter County. It was discovered that the County Commissioners passed an ordinance (2008-05) which allows for the billing for fire services. The neighbors insurance company will be receiving a bill for between eight and nine thousand dollars for the Villages Public Safety Department services. One example is $500.00 per hour per class A fire truck. This all seems unfair since we pay a yearly fee for fire protection within Sumter County section of The Villages. A number of residents are going to the Commissioners meeting on July 22, 2008 @ 5 P.M. which will be held at the Colony Rec Center to question them about this issue.

[samhass]

This is the first I've heard of these charges. Interesting..if true.

[carolynpage]

I agree, this is outrageous :agree: :agree:

[GatorFan]

Eveyone needs to get involved and pass the word to be at this meeting. If we think insurance premiums for our homes are high now, I hate to think what will happen when they start getting billed for thousands of dollars from the fire department.

[English Ivy]

I did a google search for "sumter county fl fire dept charges" and came up with this article from the Daily Sun this past January. The article makes it sound like this is becoming normal practice all across the country. Here's the link for the article:

http://www.thevillagesdailysun.com/articles/2008/01/09/news/news02.txt

[Best Mom]

I hope everyone sees this post. Also, I hope someone can explain it more than the Sun article. It is not happening in our little town up in NY.

[villages07]

Very interesting.... a couple of "what-if" scenarios....

What if your neighbor sees smoke and calls 911, but, it was a small kitchen fire and you extinguish it yourself. They dispatch a fire truck. Any charges to ensue? They always send 2 vehicles...will you get charged for both?

It's a bit of a fallacy to say the homeowner/resident will not pay...most policies carry a 500-1,000 deductible. So, they show up, no real damage was done to your property yet you would still have to pay the dispatch call because of your deductible?

The tone of the article is a little "so what"....let the big insurance company pay, it won't cost you. In the end, we pay, one way or another.

These charges seem grossly out of line with the cost of doing business. The county, through our taxes, is paying for the equipment and personnel whether they are in the firehouse waiting for a call or out on the street. These user fee surcharges seem awfully expensive for the time and service rendered.

[graciegirl]

Very interesting.... a couple of "what-if" scenarios....

What if your neighbor sees smoke and calls 911, but, it was a small kitchen fire and you extinguish it yourself. They dispatch a fire truck. Any charges to ensue? They always send 2 vehicles...will you get charged for both?

It's a bit of a fallacy to say the homeowner/resident will not pay...most policies carry a 500-1,000 deductible. So, they show up, no real damage was done to your property yet you would still have to pay the dispatch call because of your deductible?

The tone of the article is a little "so what"....let the big insurance company pay, it won't cost you. In the end, we pay, one way or another.

These charges seem grossly out of line with the cost of doing business. The county, through our taxes, is paying for the equipment and personnel whether they are in the firehouse waiting for a call or out on the street. These user fee surcharges seem awfully expensive for the time and service rendered.




As usual I agree with everything Village 07 says. I just wish I could say it like she does.
This is very troubling!

[samhass]

I question why a fire truck has to come out on every 911 call for medical help. If you are having a heart attack will it make you feel better to think your house might be burning down, too? You have paramedics on the ambulance. How will a fireman help?

[KCinBAMA]

I question why a fire truck has to come out on every 911 call for medical help. If you are having a heart attack will it make you feel better to think your house might be burning down, too? You have paramedics on the ambulance. How will a fireman help?


I know that where I live in Alabama, 911 dispatches fire trucks and ambulances. I've had to call them twice and both times, the firefighters arrived within 5 minutes and perform first aid/stabilization procedures - usually, a good 10 minutes before the ambulance arrives. Maybe its simply that they are quicker to respond?

[Barefoot]

I question why a fire truck has to come out on every 911 call for medical help. If you are having a heart attack will it make you feel better to think your house might be burning down, too? You have paramedics on the ambulance. How will a fireman help?

Sammy, In some areas there are more fire stations nearby than ambulances, so help is available sooner. Also most (if not all) firefighters are trained in basic medical procedures and many trucks have defibrillators.

[Casino]

I question why a fire truck has to come out on every 911 call for medical help. If you are having a heart attack will it make you feel better to think your house might be burning down, too? You have paramedics on the ambulance. How will a fireman help?


The reason why a fire truck comes out to every 911 call for medical help is that sometimes more help is needed on scene . This is also part of the accredition plan that each department has. You can never forsee what is going to happen on a scene...you might need more personnel to help carrry the patient to the truck, need more help on scene as the paramedics are tending to the patient(s).....just use your imagination and there are a lot of scenarios. Hope this helps answer your question.

[bestmickey]

I don't know about your neck of the woods, but besides getting on-site faster, our first responders in the fire trucks are paramedics. From the calls I've made for sick friends/family, with what I observed, I have a lot more trust in the paramedics than I do in the ambulance crews I've encountered.

[Talk Host]

If there is a ton of money sitting at insurance companies waiting to pay for fire department services and the fire departments actually start charging for those services, and the insurance companies have to suddenly begin paying those charges......does anybody think for a minute that the insurance companies are just going to happily pay from that fund and say goodbye to that money.....and not come back to the customer and recover it somehow?

It is my opinion that we pay taxes for fire services. If we pay once and the insurance company pays once....that's twice.....for the same service. Kinda like doctors ordering tests just because they will get paid by the insurance company. If the fire department gets paid by the number of trucks they send.....what's to stop them from sending 50 trucks? Is there also a charge for the chiefs car?

[Best Mom]

bump

[Sidney Lanier]

This is certainly something to be aware of, which we weren't. We are away for the months of July and August and so will not be able to attend the meeting on July 22. Will an attendee please post info of what's learned there? Thanks! In our little town in NYS, we have a volunteer fire company and rescue squad, so there are no charges involved. However, the next town to us is a much larger, college town, and there they bill for rescue squad calls even though they are volunteers as well (at least so far as I understand). Hmmm....

[chuckster]

In our little town in NYS, we have a volunteer fire company and rescue squad, so there are no charges involved.


Hmmm........Our little town which was a four corners in rural New York had fire charges for the volunteer fire/EMS added to our annual tax bill. I'm sure yours did too. There is no "free lunch". Someone pays for equipment/training. Chicken Barbecues don't cover the bill. :) :)

[samhass]

I understand that, but still don't understand why they have to come on a huge firetruck .
A smaller vehicle would/should/could suffice.












has to come with them






The reason why a fire truck comes out to every 911 call for medical help is that sometimes more help is needed on scene . This is also part of the accredition plan that each department has. You can never forsee what is going to happen on a scene...you might need more personnel to help carrry the patient to the truck, need more help on scene as the paramedics are tending to the patient(s).....just use your imagination and there are a lot of scenarios. Hope this helps answer your question.

[`willy]

Samhass
My thoughts exactly
Fire engines cost hundreds of thousand of dollars. They should be reserved for fire emergency's If the EMT's need help they should call a Sheriff deputy who should be on patrol nearby or the Chief in his Suv. The ambulance service in the Villages is excellent.
and should be commended, But to have double response is waste of tax payers money.
Just my thoughts
WILLY

[Best Mom]

This is certainly something to be aware of, which we weren't. We are away for the months of July and August and so will not be able to attend the meeting on July 22. Will an attendee please post info of what's learned there? Thanks! In our little town in NYS, we have a volunteer fire company and rescue squad, so there are no charges involved. However, the next town to us is a much larger, college town, and there they bill for rescue squad calls even though they are volunteers as well (at least so far as I understand). Hmmm....

Yes Sidney,
You are right. Just talked to 4 volunteer firemen. The little towns have all volunteer services. No one gets paid. They have fundraisers for their equipment. I am so lucky to have been raised in little towns like this. My parents used these services many times before they died. They are real "friendlest hometowns" and the firemen want you to know they get no help from taxes. They work for free for their neighbors. Sometimes even better service than you could pay for...

[Skip]

Isn't it nice to know that State Farm Insurance has asked the state for premium increases next year of :o FORTY SEVEN PERCENT :o just to cover charges like fire truck response?

Besides, any county government who bills an insurance company for this service but waives the charge for homeowners who don't have insurance, is looking for a huge lawsuit from insurance companies.

Skip

[GatorFan]

I NEED TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS WHAT THIS MEANS TO EACH OF YOU.
READ YOUR HOMEOWNER'S POLICY. THE MAXIMUM THAT WOULD BE PAID BY YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY IN THE EVENT A FIRE DEPARTMENT CHARGES YOU IS $ 500.00 PER OCCURRENCE. ANYTHING OVER AND ABOVE THAT AMOUNT WOULD COME OUT OF YOUR POCKET. FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD, THIS HOUSE FIRE THIS PAST WEEKEND INCURRED OVER $ 3000.00 IN CHARGES FROM THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. SUMTER COUNTY RESIDENTS NEED TO BAN TOGETHER TO GET THIS ORIDINANCE OVERTURNED ASAP.

[nitehawk]

I cant believe any town would implement this ordinance. Doesn't anyone look into the fact that many major fires get a great start by someone trying to extinguish it themself. Now with the cost of a fire response costing mega bucks, I can only figure more "major fires", caused by a delay in reporting, maybe because of the cost of a full first alarm response. "I thought I could extinguish it myself", is the statement made by many a homeowner looking at his foundation and the chimney (which is all that is left). Now with the cost of response and operation of units, the statement "I thought i could extinguish it myself", may be heard more and more. Don't forget the greater the fire the more chance of extension to exposures. Whats next? Do you call the police dept and ask "How much for a response of a possible burglary next door" or "how much for food on the stove" fire.

[bobfl]

Hello is this the Fire Dept?

(please press one for English, two for Spanish 1
(press 1 for quotes, press 2 for info on tours) 1
( Please wait, all operators are busy with other customers). . . . . . . . . . . .This is Jay in New Delhi, how can I help you?

HELP! I would like a quote on a small fire in my kitchen, it is only on one side. Whoops its now on the other side too, Whoops whole room is burning, can you hurry up with the quote? . . . . . Never mind just come NOW, WHOLE PLACE IS BURNING!

[GatorFan]

I actually called and spoke to the Sumter County fire services department after posting this am. I was told that in the event of a fire at a residence, the fire department will invoice the insurance company $ 500.00. No additional invoice will be sent to homeowner.

[villages07]

Gator,

I had a similar question that I posed to Sumter county commissioner Mike Francis...still waiting for a reply.

OK, they bill the insurance company 500 but I have a 500 or 1,000 deductible on my policy...will I still be out the $500 out of pocket?

Do you know the answer to this?

Your inquiry implies that the maximum charge for equipment would be $500, regardless of the # of units sent out. I had not heard it explained that way before.

[GatorFan]

I actually called the Sumter County Fire Services office in Bushnell. I would assume that if you have fire damage, example: 25,000 plus 500.00 for fire dept, the total claim would be 25,500. If you have a 500 ded, then you would pay the first 500.00. If you have a 1000 ded, then you pay the first 1000.

[villages07]

Gator,

I agree with your example. My concern was a dispatch call where no other damage/expense was incurred. Say, you call an ambulance, but, by the time they arrive it is determined there is no emergency. Or, a small kitchen fire which you extinguished and no further damage/claim is filed.

In these examples, the fire dept dispatch fee would be the only expense. You would have to pay it if the charge is less than your deductible. Correct?

[Villages Kahuna]

In Sumter County our property taxes, which includes a millage for fire and public safety, have gone down for the last two years. And not by an insignificant amount. The county board seems to be doing a responsible job of not spending just because they're enjoying significant increased tax revenues. (Remember most of the new building in TV is in Sumter County, producing significant increases in tax revenues.)

So the members of the county board come up with an idea to control the expense of the fire department by shifting a part of the cost to homeowners and their insurance companies. It's a different approach than taken in many parts of the country. But in those other areas increases in property taxes at a rate higher than inflation is also common.

Back in the day, many of the companies that we all worked for provided a livable pension and lifetime healthcare for their retirees. Now almost all companies have shifted the cost of retirement to employees in the form of 401k savings plans and elimination/reduction of company-paid health insurance. It took us a while to get used to the reality of all that, but it seems to be happening.

So a creative bunch of county commissioners decide to do something similar to control the costs of public safety in the county by shifting the costs to those residents that actually use the services. Many are upset. But if the new--or at least unusual--idea works to keep property taxes low, will we...should we...continue to be upset?

Time will tell.

[captain1202]

This is just more example of the "user fee" creep which I find very disagreeable for basic services such as police, fire, trash, etc. What are our property taxes for? It's just a way for municipal agencies to grab more $$ under the guise of "user fees" when they have been refused a budget increase by elected officials.

It should be one thing or the other. The concept of the property tax in the first place is to spread the cost of all municipal services among all residents.

As a former municipal official (mostly prior to the "user fee" grab began) I opposed the user fees for emergency services and the public landfill/transfer station.

If this concept is to apply, then only folks with kids in school should pay, etc., etc..

Perhaps there are some special interest programs that could benefit from user fees but not basic services.

On another note...
For those questioning the fire truck response to medical emergencies, the reason they take the truck (for the most part) is in case they are dispatched to a fire from the medical scene. It's usually done in larger cities/town because the ambulance is being dispatched from a different location so they send a "First responder" to the emergency. I think I'm correct in saying each of our fire stations have a medical emergency truck or ambulance so I guess I'm not sure about the need for the truck dispatch. I was involved with a rural volunteer ambulance service for 10 years and the only time we had a fire truck response was for an auto accident or rescue situation. Otherwise we handled the medicals with 2 or 3 people.

[GatorFan]

If you shift the fire department service charge to the insurance company to off set property tax decrease, then the insurance company will increase premiums to off set their pay outs. We all pay one way or the other. If property taxes are lowered, some other service will be increased.

[Fourpar]

A tax by any other name is still......A TAX!
Seems like a way to increase budgets without the prerequisite "representation" and control by those elected to exercise fiscal responsibility. A cop-out as it were by county legislators. :dontknow: