New traffic regs on Oak Forest Drive

[Cliff]

I hope this post gives residents and nonresidents fair warning that new traffic control signs have been posted on Oak Forest Drive in the Villages of Glenbrook and Polo Ridge As almost everybody knows, Oak Forest has developed into the speedway of the Villages and has become an alternative to using the cart path along Buena Vista. Unfortunately, the road was not built to handle so much traffic and has become a dangerous road to travel on and to reside on. Recently, new traffic control signs have been posted indicating that only local traffic should be using the street. That means only residents of Oak Forest and it's side roads should be traveling on it. It is not a shortcut between Talley Ridge and Southern Trace at the Polo Ridge Village entrance. Be advised that it is anticipated that the Sumter County Sheriff is expected to set up stop points where Deputies can check on the addresses of people using the street. Warnings will probably be issued for the first offense. Thereafter the fine for nonresidents using the street will be $123.50 plus points assigned to the driver's license. Automobile drivers, truck drivers, and golf cart drivers, by now should know that the speed limit on Oak Forest Drive is 25mph. If the local residents restriction does not produce results, it is anticipated that Sumter will be lowering the speed limit on Oak Forest to 15mph. Other possibilities will be considered if the restriction to local traffic and lowering of the speed limit do not produce the desired results. Realizing that drivers in The Villages absolutely disregard any traffic signal, it is anticipated that ultimately Oak Forest will become a one way street or a berm will be built across the street separating Glenbrook and Polo Ridge. Have a nice day.

[Taltarzac]

I hope this post gives residents and nonresidents fair warning that new traffic control signs have been posted on Oak Forest Drive in the Villages of Glenbrook and Polo Ridge As almost everybody knows, Oak Forest has developed into the speedway of the Villages and has become an alternative to using the cart path along Buena Vista. Unfortunately, the road was not built to handle so much traffic and has become a dangerous road to travel on and to reside on. Recently, new traffic control signs have been posted indicating that only local traffic should be using the street. That means only residents of Oak Forest and it's side roads should be traveling on it. It is not a shortcut between Talley Ridge and Southern Trace at the Polo Ridge Village entrance. Be advised that it is anticipated that the Sumter County Sheriff is expected to set up stop points where Deputies can check on the addresses of people using the street. Warnings will probably be issued for the first offense. Thereafter the fine for nonresidents using the street will be $123.50 plus points assigned to the driver's license. Automobile drivers, truck drivers, and golf cart drivers, by now should know that the speed limit on Oak Forest Drive is 25mph. If the local residents restriction does not produce results, it is anticipated that Sumter will be lowering the speed limit on Oak Forest to 15mph. Other possibilities will be considered if the restriction to local traffic and lowering of the speed limit do not produce the desired results. Realizing that drivers in The Villages absolutely disregard any traffic signal, it is anticipated that ultimately Oak Forest will become a one way street or a berm will be built across the street separating Glenbrook and Polo Ridge. Have a nice day.


OK.

[renielarson]

Where exactly are you talking about? I need specifics.

[Cliff]

Oak Forest Drive is a road which runs between Talley Ridge Dr and Southern Trace (in the Villages of Glenbrook and Polo Ridge) running parallel with Buena Vista Blvd. Refer to your Villages map. It is located within CDD3.

[BOMBERO]

Cliff - Thanks for the warning that you posted. I did not see it before posting mine.
I don't like it and others may or may not. We have been warned.. Thank you.
May I ask, where in general you live here in The Villages? Not the exact address.

brightspot01 - What can I say? If I wasn't sooooo busy trying to get to 1210 myself,
I would come and take you by the hand and show you Oak Forest Drive.

[samhass]

Bright, See my post under the other Oak Forest Dr topic. 8)





Where exactly are you talking about? I need specifics.

[renielarson]

Bombero

What does 1210 have to do with my honest question?

King of sarcasm? Why?

Thanks for being so considerate.

Sam...you have more posts than I do...so what is Bombero's point?

[The Gray Hog]

If this is a resident only street and we would be ticketed due to not residing on this street.......it is really a 'private' street which should be gated and we should not be taxed nor subject to its repairs in the future.
How, we might ask, do we visit our friends that reside along that street???

[graciegirl]

I hope this post gives residents and nonresidents fair warning that new traffic control signs have been posted on Oak Forest Drive in the Villages of Glenbrook and Polo Ridge As almost everybody knows, Oak Forest has developed into the speedway of the Villages and has become an alternative to using the cart path along Buena Vista. Unfortunately, the road was not built to handle so much traffic and has become a dangerous road to travel on and to reside on. Recently, new traffic control signs have been posted indicating that only local traffic should be using the street. That means only residents of Oak Forest and it's side roads should be traveling on it. It is not a shortcut between Talley Ridge and Southern Trace at the Polo Ridge Village entrance. Be advised that it is anticipated that the Sumter County Sheriff is expected to set up stop points where Deputies can check on the addresses of people using the street. Warnings will probably be issued for the first offense. Thereafter the fine for nonresidents using the street will be $123.50 plus points assigned to the driver's license. Automobile drivers, truck drivers, and golf cart drivers, by now should know that the speed limit on Oak Forest Drive is 25mph. If the local residents restriction does not produce results, it is anticipated that Sumter will be lowering the speed limit on Oak Forest to 15mph. Other possibilities will be considered if the restriction to local traffic and lowering of the speed limit do not produce the desired results. Realizing that drivers in The Villages absolutely disregard any traffic signal, it is anticipated that ultimately Oak Forest will become a one way street or a berm will be built across the street separating Glenbrook and Polo Ridge. Have a nice day.


You know it is obvious that you are mad and probably have good reason to be, but saying that "drivers in The Villages absolutely disregard any traffic signal" is not going to get you any help here at all. Have a nice day isn't very nice either.

[redwitch]

I can understand stopping people for speeding, but I can't how they can possibly enforce stopping people who are not residents of Glenbrook from using the streets. That's just silly, sorry.

[renielarson]

Thank you very much, Cliff, because I honestly did not know where Oak Forest Drive was. Now I do...thank you again.

[samhass]

You've got me , Bright. I'm clueless.




Bombero

What does 1210 have to do with my honest question?

King of sarcasm? Why?

Thanks for being so considerate.

Sam...you have more posts than I do...so what is Bombero's point?

[zcaveman]

If I visit someone that lives off of Oak Forest do I need a note from him to prove I did not try to use Oak Forest as a bypass?

[Cliff]

I posted this topic to give fair warning to people about the new traffic control signs on Oak Forest Drive which were erected in an attempt by Sumter County to cut down on the "shortcut" traffic which uses Oak Forest instead of the cart path along Buena Vista. It is idiotic to assume that the restrictions will prevent anyone from visiting someone on Oak Forest or any of it's sidestreets. And, to think that it is not true that residents in The Villages disregard almost all traffic control signs, sit at some stop sign any hour of the day and take note of how many people do not stop at the sign. Sit on Oak Forest for any given amount of time and note how many people disregard the 25 mph signs clearly posted on the street. As I mentioned in my first post, this is just the beginning of the steps that Sumter County intends to use in order to control the Oak Forest problem. This first step is being taken just to see if people will pay any attention to a couple of signs. If they do not, the next step will be put in place. All this because of some inconsiderate people who refuse to obey speed signs and use the golf cart path specially constructed for the purpose of bypassing this neighborhood.

[joannej]

We attended a Golf Cart safety meeting yesterday at the Savannah CTR and a Sumter Cty police officer warned everyone there that they would be stepping up patrols of this area very soon and are trying to get the word out to everyone. As mentioned previously, seems like many people are bypassing Buena Vista so they can go faster on Oak Forest Drive. Be very careful because the fines are now going to be over $200! I would stay off of Oak Forest Drive if I had no reason to be there. BTW, the safety meeting was excellent; they had reps from Allstate Insurance, a golf cart co rep, two police officers (one from Marian Cty; the other from Sumter Cty, and the HOA rep who conducted the mtg). They showed a 20' video and took a lot of questions afterwards.

[jadebox]

I use this street once in awhile (In my golf cart) not to go faster but it is much smoother then the golf cart path along Buena Vista. I will continue to use it but go no more then the 19 mph I was going before. I feel bad for the people who live there but it is not a private street unless they decide to pay all the upkeep.

[villages07]

joanne,

did the Sumter deputy specifically mention the new signs? If so, did he inform whether the 'no thru traffic' applies to golf carts as well as cars?

Stepped up enforcement for excessive speed (cars and golf carts) I can see. Still baffles me that these signs were erected with no official prior notice.

[Chazz]

I've never had occasion to drive this street, nor do I expect to in the near future. However, it suggests a troubling precedent if applied more broadly. On the south side of TV many residents are not pleased with drivers who use Belvedere as a shortcut from Buena Vista to 466. Couldn't residents of that area justifiably (based on the Oak Forest precedent) demand the same restrictions. Other areas may have streets that they believe warrant restrictions, too. :'(

Of course, speed limits and street signs should be enforced and violators held accountable.

[Taltarzac]

I drove by the post office on Oak Forest Drive just to see what Cliff and others are talking about. They do have this "No Through Traffic" very plainly marked.

Doubt if this sign will stand any legal challenge though. That's my first time in three + years even on Oak Forest Drive so I see no reason to use it in the future though.

[Cliff]

:cop: :dontknow:I have been fortunate enough to receive a copy of the Oak Forest Traffic Study today. I have found that I was mistaken when I stated that the second step in correcting the Oak Forest traffic problem was to reduce the speed limit to 15mph if the signage does not work to reduce the cut-through traffic. The second step as outlined in the traffic study is to turn Oak Forest into a one way street. That will put an end to at least one half of the traffic on the street, both auto and golf cart traffic. Unfortunately, this is a tough bullet to take for the residents of the Oak Forest area. Going for our mail will turn into up to a couple of miles of travel for some of us. My snowbird next door neighbor, after hearing the news, has informed me that he will be putting his house up for sale if the one way street solution is put into affect. So, dear readers, you can do all of us a favor and cease using Oak Forest as a shortcut or cut-through. You would get a big "Thank You" from those of us residents of Oak Forest.

[JohnM]

I've never had occasion to drive this street, nor do I expect to in the near future. However, it suggests a troubling precedent ...Of course, speed limits and street signs should be enforced and violators held accountable.


I agree that this is a troubling precedent [restricting the right of the public to travel on a public street].

As Villages07 noted in a different thread on this topic, it appears that the decision to post the ""NO THROUGH TRAFFIC" signs was made by the Sumter County Commission after consideration of the issue at its 6-24-08 and 7-8-08 meetings. Presumably this issue came to the Sumter County Commission as a result of complaints from residents on Oak Forest.

I would like to know details of the issue and the legal basis for the approach chosen to deal with the issue so I am contacting the commissioners and requesting an explanation of their decision. I would encourage others concerned about the action and/or the precedent set to do the same. The commissioners can be contacted via the Sumter County Board of County Commissioners home page (http://sumtercountyfl.gov/bocc/index.htm).

John

[villages07]

Cliff,

Question for you as a resident of this street....

What to you is/are the biggest problems?

Speeding cars? Volume of extra car traffic???

or Volume of golf cart traffic? We can assume that the vast majority of golf carts are going less than 25 mph speed limit, so, their speed should not be that much of an issue?

I have to admit, we use Oak Forest to get up to Glenview....because it is a smoother ride and quite frankly, prettier to look at all the nicely landscaped homes than riding along Buena Vista trail. In my own experience on this road, the car volume presents the bigger challenge for residents trying to get in and out of their driveways.

JohnM....just read your post while writing this one; kudos to you for proactively calling the County for an explanation. Please share with us what you find out.

[Cliff]

Villages07. The problem is a combination of all the items you mentioned. We have lots of golf carts traveling in both directions on Oak Forest, and, some EXCEED 35mph. We have a lot of cars and trucks traveling in both directions and some do even faster than 35mph. Oak Forest is not a wide street and there is no golf cart lane on the street because it was not designed to handle the volume of traffic it is now having to handle. Yes, getting out of one's driveway is a major problem for the residents and 95 % of the homes on Oak Forest have their driveway entrances on Oak Forest. At 5 in the morning you can hear gas golf carts riding by the houses with the operators shouting to each other in order to be heard over the noise of the gas cart. For those people who have not been aware of the Oak Forest problem, it has been going on for years. Residents have complained and complained but the buck was always passed on to another department. Finally, after numerous appearances and appeals to CDDs and the Sumter Commissioners, something is being done to solve the problem. It certainly has not happened overnight. A lot of people have spent a lot of time and effort in getting this thing to this stage. Sorry if some readers feel we are trying to get away with something here on Oak Forest. Everything that is happening is being done in accordance with Florida law and after much investigation.

[Autoshow]

Who in their right mind,would have put those No Through Traffic signs up?
Do they think that all us people who live here are some kind of idiots.If the people on that street and side streets do not want through traffic,a barricade should be installed some where in the middle of the block and let all that live in that area go around also.

Apparently they figure if they can scare some of us off that street,that would be good for the home owners on Oak Forest and all the side streets.
Police would have to be at one end of the street and radio the police on the other end with the license number of all vehicles entering the street and see if they come out the other end, and that would also have to happen in both directions,what a waste of police time.

[Cliff]

Autoshow. For the reasoning you present, we, the residents on Oak Forest, hold out no hope at all that the signs will solve our problems. Sumter County also realizes that. But, in order to justify something like making the road a one way road or to build a berm across the street halting traffic from both directions, they had to start off with the sign idea. When enough idiots ignore the signs (not necessarily including you among the idiots) then they can go on to more drastic measures. This is all well thought out and much of the stuff being posted on this blog is fully anticipated. One of the things that we would least expect would be for the idiots to reverse their reasoning and start to use the Buena Vista Blvd and cart path trail. You would not do something like that would you? Hell, if you did, this blog would have no purpose.

[renielarson]

Public roads are public roads regardless of signs...dare me!

[samhass]

I dare you, I dare you, I D double dare you. :-* ;D

[renielarson]

Pfffft.... ;)

[Muncle]

This appears to be a great example of being careful for what you ask. I can understand the frustration of residents there, and evidently a number of them demanded a solution. Unfortunately, this solution seems to fall a bit short. There are alternatives, several of which have been cited here. Again, though, each of these seems to be a bit lacking.

One way traffic would undoubtedly cut traffic, but how would you like to drive an extra mile or so whenever you left or returned home. You have a 50 yard cart ride to the postal station/pool, but to return home you have to go out to Buena Vista, drive up to Talley Ridge and drive all the way back down Oak Forest. Not good.

A barricade was suggested. If Polo Ridge ended about 1/2 way down Oak Forest, say at Melville Loop, and the Village of Glenbrook started, that could be a solution. Probably would not make many people happy in that it would inconvenience the residents there, the very people who have the problem anyway, but it would retain the villages' integrity.

Another solution would be to limit parking on Oak Forest -- not on my street. Same with speed bumps. Maybe some other types of traffic dampers? Eh, not so much.

So the issue seems to come down to a public thoroughfare, by definition open to the public. For a variety of reasons, it seems to be preferred over Buena Vista by some people. If I'm going between Talley Ridge and Southern Trace, Oak Forest seems a logical alternative. Same if I am going from the cart path north of Talley Ridge to Southern Trace. Otherwise, Oak Forest seems to offer no benefit to the non-resident.

I figure there is no logical or legal way of reducing traffic short of really ticking off residents of that area. Any solution will be far worse than the problem. The only viable solution could address only the other aspect of the problem -- speed. Convince the Sumter Co Sheriff that Oak Forrest is an untapped financial resource via speeding tickets. Especially nail a few speeding golf carts and hit them hard. They don't have to to do it daily, just enough to build a reputation.

[JohnM]

Who in their right mind,would have put those No Through Traffic signs up?



The commissioners on the Sumter County Board of Commissioners (there are 5 of them) at their 7-8-08 meeting.

See earlier posts.

John

[JohnM]

JohnM....just read your post while writing this one; kudos to you for proactively calling the County for an explanation. Please share with us what you find out.


One of the five commissioners has responded thus far. Commissioner Gilpin supports stricter enforcement of existing laws and not restricting the use of the street. He encourages all with an opinion on this issue to attend the next Board of County Commissioners meeting (Tuesday, July 22d, 5 PM, Colony Cottage Rec Center).

FYI...

John

[bargee]

OK people whats next if this flies.Local use only of swimming pools,Golf courses,Rec centers?C'mon folks get real,this is a golf cart community.Limit the speeding,YES,but I can't drive on your road'I don't think so.

[villager99]

i may be in the minority but until crossing gates by golf cart is made safer i'll continue to find and use residential streets to get me where i'm going.
so if i can't use oak forest i'll use the streets of summerhill to get to southern trace, and buffalo ridge shopping and doctors.
will all residential streets eventually become no thru traffic streets?

[Chazz]

i may be in the minority but until crossing gates by golf cart is made safer i'll continue to find and use residential streets to get me where i'm going.
so if i can't use oak forest i'll use the streets of summerhill to get to southern trace, and buffalo ridge shopping and doctors.
will all residential streets eventually become no thru traffic streets?


:agree: Exactly my point in my earlier post. In lieu of making each village a private enclave, I agree with the other posters who suggested stricter enforcing of speed limits and/or, perhaps lowering them.

[zcaveman]

When they designed the roads in TV, only certain streets get you from one area of TV to the others. In the case of Tally Ho, Oak Forest is the only through street to Summer Trace to get you to the Polo Grounds or to Summer Trace shopping district without going out to Buena Vista. I do not think that they ever thought that Oak Forest would be restricted to local traffic.

The only other way is for golf carts to take Addison and cut over to Davenport to get to Summer trace. That is going to get pretty crowded fast.

It makes me wonder if these commissioners think before they act.

[JohnM]

When they designed the roads in TV, only certain streets get you from one area of TV to the others. In the case of Tally Ho, Oak Forest is the only through street to Summer Trace to get you to the Polo Grounds or to Summer Trace shopping district without going out to Buena Vista. I do not think that they ever thought that Oak Forest would be restricted to local traffic.

The only other way is for golf carts to take Addison and cut over to Davenport to get to Summer trace. That is going to get pretty crowded fast.

It makes me wonder if these commissioners think before they act.


That would be interesting background information and a good question to ask at Tuesday's commissioner's meeting...

John

[thegreenerside]

how about the county buy all the houses using eminent domain then tear the houses down and build a 6 lane Highway (toll of course). This will then allow the developer the opportunity to build houses on the less traveled Buena Vista.

[barb1191]

When they designed the roads in TV, only certain streets get you from one area of TV to the others. In the case of Tally Ho, Oak Forest is the only through street to Summer Trace to get you to the Polo Grounds or to Summer Trace shopping district without going out to Buena Vista. I do not think that they ever thought that Oak Forest would be restricted to local traffic.

The only other way is for golf carts to take Addison and cut over to Davenport to get to Summer trace. That is going to get pretty crowded fast.

It makes me wonder if these commissioners think before they act.


Correction: Incorrect: Summer Trace; should be Southern Trace.

No criticism intended; merely helpful clarification.....b

[Happy Villager]

I too feel this is setting an awful precedent which many other areas in The Villages could also justify needing. I am sorry but Oak Forest Drive is part of The Villages and as such is open to all residents. We do use Oak Forest occasionally when driving our electric golf cart and we do not speed.

I have already e-mailed Mike Francis and Janett Tutt and encouraged them to reconsider this decision. I also received an e-mail tonight from friends that live in Allahambra and they told me there is a movement in their village to have all their residents to contact their district commissioner to protest too.

I can sympathize with vehicles speeding because we have that on our street too. I just wish their were more law enforcement available to do something about it.

[zcaveman]

Correction: Incorrect: Summer Trace; should be Southern Trace.

No criticism intended; merely helpful clarification.....b


Sorry for the misinformation and thanks. I get the streets and shopping areas mixed up all the time.

[villages07]

Cliff,

I can appreciate the problem from the perspective of the residents of this street. I guess what got my goat was the radical nature of the solution, basically setting up a verbotten zone for all but residents and their invited guests. The enforceability of this solution is daunting.

I guess I would have preferred a public information campaign first...with articles in the paper, perhaps advisory signs at the entrance to neighborhoods, asking nicely for "cut through" traffic to consider other routes to their destination. People of the Villages are by and large kind, thoughtful people. If such a gentle voluntary campaign would cut down on the volume by 20-30%, you'd all be much better off, enforceability would not be a problem, and there would not be the backlash we are hearing now.

Maybe the horse is out of the barn...but, just throwing these prohibited signs up without any advance warning or considering other less strident solutions seems a little heavy handed.

[Muncle]

"The I, me, my, people who say that they will disregard a lawful sign and continue to make life miserable for the people living on the street, are loading this thread with their selfish remarks."

No, not gonna buy that. If there are any "I, me, my people" involved in this situation, it is those vocal residents of the Oak Forest Drive area who have complained about the activities on that street and coerced a questionable government action. Oak Forest is not the only street accessed via this route. There are also about a dozen side streets and scores of homes that are being inconvenienced by the actions of their neighbors.

It's possible that original residents of this area thought that their new homes, across a obviously major thoroughfare from the polo fields, softball diamonds, and Saddle Brook rec center and between two executive golf courses and a major country club were going to remain in an isolated paradise. But somehow, I'll bet these same people were clamoring for the construction of shopping facilities closer than way up on 27/441.

No one wants changes that will make their home less appealing to themselves. When you have a lovely view, you don't want a house built in the way. However, unless you own the land involved or have a legal commitment regarding its use, you've no guarantees. Life's a :edit: . It's the same with this traffic situation. You can do various things to ameliorate the situation, but only within the rules of the community.

[graciegirl]

"The I, me, my, people who say that they will disregard a lawful sign and continue to make life miserable for the people living on the street, are loading this thread with their selfish remarks."

No, not gonna buy that. If there are any "I, me, my people" involved in this situation, it is those vocal residents of the Oak Forest Drive area who have complained about the activities on that street and coerced a questionable government action. Oak Forest is not the only street accessed via this route. There are also about a dozen side streets and scores of homes that are being inconvenienced by the actions of their neighbors.

It's possible that original residents of this area thought that their new homes, across a obviously major thoroughfare from the polo fields, softball diamonds, and Saddle Brook rec center and between two executive golf courses and a major country club were going to remain in an isolated paradise. But somehow, I'll bet these same people were clamoring for the construction of shopping facilities closer than way up on 27/441.

No one wants changes that will make their home less appealing to themselves. When you have a lovely view, you don't want a house built in the way. However, unless you own the land involved or have a legal commitment regarding its use, you've no guarantees. Life's a :edit: . It's the same with this traffic situation. You can do various things to ameliorate the situation, but only within the rules of the community.


I so agree! :agree: :agree: :agree:

[gingersmom]

By the way, I just read F.S. 316.074 and I don't see anything in that statute that allows the residents to make this a closed or private street.

[Chazz]

Does anyone know the legalities of "No Thru Traffic" signs? I've been told that they apply to commercial traffic, only, not to vehicles such as cars and golf carts. If this is the case, I would have no objection to it.

[Autoshow]

Autoshow. For the reasoning you present, we, the residents on Oak Forest, hold out no hope at all that the signs will solve our problems. Sumter County also realizes that. But, in order to justify something like making the road a one way road or to build a berm across the street halting traffic from both directions, they had to start off with the sign idea. When enough idiots ignore the signs (not necessarily including you among the idiots) then they can go on to more drastic measures. This is all well thought out and much of the stuff being posted on this blog is fully anticipated. One of the things that we would least expect would be for the idiots to reverse their reasoning and start to use the Buena Vista Blvd and cart path trail. You would not do something like that would you? Hell, if you did, this blog would have no purpose.


I willl not be using Oak Forest any more until the legal situation is solved.

[barb1191]

Just a bit of history...

When I purchased in Polo Ridge off Southern Trace in 2002, the gates at both ends of Southern Trace were locked. One needed a gate pass to enter either end of the road.

The only way one without a pass could enter any part of Polo Ridge was at the Glenview manned gate and then onto Oak Forest Drive (OFD) to Southern Trace. My guests and any deliveries or hired hands had to take this route of going thru the Glenview manned gate and onto OFD. EVERYONE WITHOUT A GATE PASS.

I don't know how long you have lived on OFD, Cliff, but at that time when I moved into Polo Ridge, the traffic was pretty heavy on your road until they opened both ends of Southern Trace a few years later.

I imagine that people living on Southern Trace can also feel the effects of heavy traffic since it's a shortcut from Buena Vista to Rte 466 in the Southern Trace Plaza, as well as Buffalo Ridge shopping area. Opening both ends of Southern Trace had to have lightened the traffic on OFD since the gates were accessable to all.

If you expect preferential treatment regarding traffic, there are many other streets that can claim the very same. With all due respect, I really feel that there is no way one street, owned by the County, can expect to be closed to the public. Along with the fact that there are many homes in that area who hire trades people, and such who are traveling that road to get to their destination within the OFD area.

Just a neighbor's point of view.....barb

[Muncle]

Well, I'm one of the idiots. After suffering through all the supposed justifications by the selfish residents of Oak Forest Drive and deciding that this sign was morally wrong and potentially illegal, I happened to be in Polo Ridge today and actually entered the forbidden zone. I was as excited and filled with trepidation as the first time I drove thru a red light area. Wasn't near as much fun. Granted, it has been quite a while since I'd been there, but I could detect no Sword of Damocles hanging over the place. Road looked kinda empty. While in the area, however, I spoke with some friends who live on Woodbridge Dr. They're keeping a close eye on Oak Forest and plan the same thing if this one holds.

And of course Belvedere will follow as this is without doubt the busiest gate and the street most packed with speeding nonresidents in existence. Man the barricades! The barbarians are at the gates, or, in this case, driving down my street!

[Cliff]

Barb1191, I had been in Glenbrook for a couple of years when you moved into Polo Ridge. Polo Ridge was still in stages of development when our traffic problems on Oak Forest began. I don't recall the gates being locked so that a press of the button would not get a response. But, besides the point, you are absolutely right that The Villages did nothing whatsoever to cut the traffic being routed through OF in order to get to your neighborhood. The traffic problems here are, indeed, deep rooted. The people who should be getting the blame for this problem are The Villages and Sumter traffic engineers. They really goofed.

[graciegirl]

Barb1191, I had been in Glenbrook for a couple of years when you moved into Polo Ridge. Polo Ridge was still in stages of development when our traffic problems on Oak Forest began. I don't recall the gates being locked so that a press of the button would not get a response. But, besides the point, you are absolutely right that The Villages did nothing whatsoever to cut the traffic being routed through OF in order to get to your neighborhood. The traffic problems here are, indeed, deep rooted. The people who should be getting the blame for this problem are The Villages and Sumter traffic engineers. They really goofed.


Boy Howdy YES. and they are responsible for my hot flashes too.

[Sidney Lanier]

No matter whether 'outsiders' are pro or con, the people on Oak Forest believe they have a legitimate complaint about through traffic and managed to convince the powers-that-be to bar it. Who am I to judge; I didn't even know where the street was!

But I keep coming back to my concern--and maybe this thread should be on the Villages Forum, not Non Villages. How many residents of how many DOZENS of streets in TV have the same legitimate complaint and, with this precedent, be vocal and forthright in taking it down the same path (no pun intended...) as the Oak Forest residents.

What will happen to our traffic in general?

[Taltarzac]

Here is a map which shows the location of Oak Forest Drive which is just to the west (left) of Buena Vista on this map http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=The+Villages&zipcode=32162&cat=Golf+Courses-Private#a/maps/l:Glenview+Champions+Golf+Club:3190+Glenview+Rd:La dy+Lake:FL:32162:US:28.936526:-81.999892:address:/m::12:28.936526:-81.999892:0::/io:0:::::f:EN:M:/e

[Cliff]

Collection6. You claim to read but you don't seem to be able to comprehend very well.

[bestmickey]

I suggest that a reduced speed limit and a sign for "No Truck Traffic" should suffice to solve the problems.

As for me, I can't wait to move to The Villages. It's been a long time since I've gotten the thrill of breaking the law. I'm looking forward to it if your "no thru traffic" signs stay put. ;D

[samhass]

1rnfl 1rnfl Mickey, you may find some here that wish to assist in your quest for lawlessness!!




I suggest that a reduced speed limit and a sign for "No Truck Traffic" should suffice to solve the problems.

As for me, I can't wait to move to The Villages. It's been a long time since I've gotten the thrill of breaking the law. I'm looking forward to it if your "no thru traffic" signs stay put. ;D

[Chazz]

I've been trying to find references on the internet applicable to the "no thru traffic" or "no thru street" sign issue, with limited success. I did find, however, a published opinion in 2004 by then Florida Attorney General Charlie Crist that seems to address a similar situation for the City of Cape Coral. I will post the link, following this message. The bottom line is that the opinion suggests that the right of the public to access public streets is the right that prevails.

Link:

http://myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/Opinions/B762787E37D4A3CD85256E620055999C

[Taltarzac]

I've been trying to find references on the internet applicable to the "no thru traffic" or "no thru street" sign issue, with limited success. I did find, however, a published opinion in 2004 by then Florida Attorney General Charlie Crist that seems to address a similar situation for the City of Cape Coral. I will post the link, following this message. The bottom line is that the opinion suggests that the right of the public to access public streets is the right that prevails.

Link:

http://myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/Opinions/B762787E37D4A3CD85256E620055999C


Caveat about these opinions. They are only advisory. They do have weight though.

"What is an Attorney General's Opinion?
Attorney General Opinions answer legal questions of a public nature that relate to a public official's duties.

In other words, an Attoney General's Opinion helps to interpret laws and guide state and local officials in applying the laws. An opinion is similiar to a legal precedent and stands until a court or later opinion overrules it or new legislation is enacted to change the statute in question. Opinions are not binding on a court, but are usually given careful consideration and respect.

The most appropriate questions for opinions are questions about inconsistent statutes or legal principles, confusion in the law itself, the constitutionality of a statute or rule, or legal disputes between two government entities." http://www.iowa.gov/government/ag/issuing_opinions/guide_opinions.html

[billethkid]

Signs put up for the purpose of controlling or governing traffic must meet certain requirements. When met the ruling body does their job and authorizes the placing of the sign.

That ends their responsibility. They do not assign nor assure enforcement.

For example, the sign on 472 (Rainey Trail) was posted with a 59,000 pound weight limit restriction, to keep the noise down as well as the wear and tear on this road. Would anybody like to guess how much 18 wheelers weigh? Moving vans? Cement trucks/loaded? Gravel and dirt dump trucks?

Doesn't faze em' one single bit.

Mission accomplished: signs up!!! Problem solved...you jest...eh!!!

As long as you get the right group together with an explicit enough presentation to the powers that be....you can get a sign. And maybe....MAYBE....it will work for the timid and staunch law abiding majority. As for the others, they will continue to do what they have always done, sign or no sign with no fear of enforcement. And even if enforced or even go so far as to be ticketed, the precedent of other streets, no signs, no enforcement, no tickets...the judge will throw it out.

Once again please be reminded we, as usual, are talking about trying to "manage" the less than 1% who are going to do what ever they want whether we like it or not.

BTK

[collection6]

So that everyone is aware, these new regulations, with the exception of the speed limit apply only to commercial vehicles. Any village resident can drive on these streets. Please do not be fooled by scare tactics.

[JohnM]

So that everyone is aware, these new regulations, with the exception of the speed limit apply only to commercial vehicles.


Could you please provide the basis or authority for this statement?

[Chazz]

Could you please provide the basis or authority for this statement?


Although just an "advisory opinion," the Florida State Attorney General's written opinion I mentioned a few messages above (click on the link that I cited) seems to support Collection6. Although it doesn't make a distinction between commercial or residential traffic, it supports the rights of the public to travel on public streets.

[carolynpage]

Again, I posted a blog :dontknow: Did not read this on going one on Oak Forest Dr.

I too sympathize with residents of this street, but we bought in TV not Oak Forest! So live with it. Get police involved in ticketing speeder, do not change the street to no though way.

Again I agree if this happens then this will open a BIG CAN OF WORMS. ::)

[JohnM]

Although just an "advisory opinion," the Florida State Attorney General's written opinion I mentioned a few messages above (click on the link that I cited) seems to support Collection6. Although it doesn't make a distinction between commercial or residential traffic, it supports the rights of the public to travel on public streets.


I read the FAG Opinion and I agree that it supports the right of the "public" to travel on public streets. Since it does not distinguish between commercial and residential traffic, I would argue that the "public" includes both residential and commercial traffic, i.e., it is inclusive not exclusive; also, the signs posted do not distinguish between residential and commercial traffic.

FWIW, one of the concerns expressed by Commissioner Mast is how can the county issue a ticket merely for the offense of driving on a "public" street.

My. $.02...

John

[Hancle704]

I moved this over from another thread.


It is interesting how this has evolved.

I am amazed that a public road that has been maintained by the County with funds received from gas tax can now be closed to the public and turned into a private road. Does this mean that residents of Oak Forest Drive will now be responsible for maintenance and repair of their private road?

I wonder why similar steps haven't been taken to restrict through traffic from travel on Morse Blvd between the gate at CR 466 and the gate at North Morse near the Circle?

Unlike the rest of Morse Blvd south of CR 466, this road was originally planned and built to just handle traffic into residential villages. Since development was started and completed south of CR 466, it has become a main north-south artery carrying far more traffic than it was built for, not to mention the problem residents have to deal with every year, when Winter residents return. Then folks must wait for extended periods to enter and exit residential streets. The "traffic problem" has been studied and restudied for years and last year the Board of County Commissioners had traffic lights installed at Morse-Rio Grande intersection replacing the three way stop signs that had been there for years. This "solution" has failed to solve the traffic problems during the peak winter months. Little by little, Morse Blvd in this area is breaking apart and with heavy rains resulting in more broken pavement and numerous pot holes.

The County Commissioners did another study and now they are looking at a range of possible solutions and the costs. One Commissioner's "solution" calls for dropping speed limit to 20 MPH and merging all traffic (autos, trucks, golf course mowers, bicycles and golf carts) into a single lane of traffic. The explanation given by this Commissioner, is that this reduced speed limit will discourage folks from driving on this route. Surprised me that this same Commissioner didn't think to allow the road to completely break apart, leave the pot holes unfilled and become a dirt road once again, that would really discourage folks.

Now it seems that all that is necessary, is to post a No Through Traffic Sign at each end of Morse with a smaller fine and points assessed supplemental sign, for violating the traffic device (sign) This would solve the problem in no time at all, at a very small cost.

The fines raised from violators would probably be enough to keep the Sheriff's Dept. funded without any need to reduce expenses.

[Sidney Lanier]

Back to my now obviously very real concern about this issue opening a can of worms because of its effect on the rest of TV, even with the Oak Forest residents feeling they have a legitimate enough complaint that they were able to convince the powers-that-be to put up the signs....

I read yesterday about the BOCC meeting tonight. If enough residents show up there (unfortunately we're up north at the moment, which is why I asked if someone could post the outcomes of the meeting) with similar issues about their particular streets in TV, that might be enough incentive for the commissioners to revisit the issue.

Look at how many threads are on two forums about this issue, how many people have posted on these threads, and how much research people have been willing to do because it's perceived as important enough!

Thanks to all, and Tal, thanks for the map!

[JohnM]

I read yesterday about the BOCC meeting tonight. If enough residents show up there ... with similar issues about their particular streets in TV, that might be enough incentive for the commissioners to revisit the issue.


Commissioners Mast and Gilpin have indicated an interest in revisiting the issue. I do not know how the other 3 feel, but only 1 more is needed for a majority...

John

[JohnM]

From Commissioner Gilpin this morning:

" I will be making a motion to remove the signs at tonight’s BOCC meeting at 5:00pm Colony Cottage Rec. Center. Please attend if you have time "


FYI...

John

[collection6]

Deputies do not have the authority to check and issue summons based on where you reside. These are public streets. They can, and should issue speeding tickets. Obviously, Cliff likes to try and rile up people. Villagers, use your commom sense, you may legally drive on any public street in the villages. You should drive safely and at the legal speed limit on all streets, not just on Cliffs street!

[JohnM]

Deputies do not have the authority to check and issue summons based on where you reside. These are public streets. They can, and should issue speeding tickets.


I agree with you, but why risk a ticket and having to argue the point before a judge when the signs can come down eliminating the issue:

From Commissioner Gilpinthis morning:

"I will be making a motion to remove the signs at tonight’s BOCC meeting at 5:00pm Colony Cottage Rec. Center. Please attend if you have time..."


John

[Taltarzac]

From Commissioner Gilpin this morning:

" I will be making a motion to remove the signs at tonight’s BOCC meeting at 5:00pm Colony Cottage Rec. Center. Please attend if you have time "


FYI...

John


Good to hear JohnM. :agree:

[Sidney Lanier]

Cliff, there's been a lot of concern about the implications of the residents (of which I can only assume you are one) of Oak Forest having been able to interest the county commissioners in making the street essentially private. There has been much research on the subject, and much information shared through the threads. I myself conceded that evidently the residents do feel they have a legitimate gripe and who are the rest of us to judge. My real concern has to do with the precedent of making one street out of HUNDREDS in TV into a more or less private road.

HOWEVER, I have read all the threads about this issue, and while I have seen lots of observations made and information shared, I have not seen an offensive and insulting comment until your last post. I am not suggesting that you are not entitled to your opinions on the issue, or that you should not be unhappy with those who disagree with you and with this decision. But you demean yourself and your position, and you lose credibility, by describing those who disagree as "1% with loud mouths and very little brains."

IMHO....

[tony removed that post.]

[Chazz]

I agree with Mr. Lanier. Up until the most recent reply by Cliff, I felt that most of the posts here were well thought out and respectful. We can have vastly differing opinions without the need to descend to insults.

[downeaster]

Two wrongs do not make a right but collection6 did accuse cliff of 'trying to rile things up". Unfortunately cliff rose to the bait and hit back.
Sidney Lanier is correct in his observation.
So, before this thread hits the slippery slope, lets all agree to disagree but respect others' opinions.
This is the most civil forum I have ever been a part of. (Isn't there a rule about ending a sentence with a preposition?) I sincerely hope it stays that way.

DC

[collection6]

Up until today this has been a general discussion between opposing points of view but now the originator of this discussion has chosen to get vicious in both his language and insults. Perhaps the moderator should ask him to not post anything if he can't control his temper and language.

[Sidney Lanier]

downeaster: In really formal English it's considered incorrect to end a sentence a preposition with.

'-)

However, it is so common in everyday usage that it's reached the point that "This is the most civil forum I have ever been a part of" is not only considered correct, but it would certainly sound awkward to have said "This is the most civil forum of which I have ever been a part." Agreed?

(Sorry Topicop, just answering downeaster's question....)

[Chazz]

According to today's Daily Sun, last evening's county commissioners' meeting was attended by more than 300 residents. Among other things, they unanimously decided to reverse their position on the signs on Oak Forest Drive. That is, they are coming down.

Wonder if the postings herein had any influence on their decision? ;)

[Taltarzac]

According to today's Daily Sun, last evening's county commissioners' meeting was attended by more than 300 residents. Among other things, they unanimously decided to reverse their position on the signs on Oak Forest Drive. That is, they are coming down.

Wonder if the postings herein had any influence on their decision? ;)


What section is this in? I looked for it in today's Villages Daily Sun but did not see it?

[Chazz]

Hi Taltarzac,

It's in section A page A6, under the heading "Fire billing triggers discussion." It is within that article at the part that says "in other matters." They make it sound like the signage issue was the impetus for the 300 plus attendees.

[zcaveman]

It was buried as a seond bullet under the Fire billing issue.

[Autoshow]

I willl not be using Oak Forest any more until the legal situation is resolved.
ed

With the situation now resolved, I will be using Oak Forest with my golf cart and Buena Vista with my auto.
Done deal, no more comments on the subject from me.