banning outside buses from squares

[twoplanekid]

I can appreciate District Manager Jane Tutts arguments against letting outside transportation companies from picking up or dropping off passengers at the squares or recreation centers. Her statement that “The purpose of my communication to you is that if you have a group planning a trip (whether for a day or longer), the bus companies need to explore pick up location options other than the downtowns or recreation facilities.” has me wondering if there is any place inside The Villages that could be used for this purpose. She doesn’t suggest one.

While I am not yet full time in The Villages, I have heard of many exciting day trips that I would enjoy taking in the future.

[graciegirl]

I can appreciate District Manager Jane Tutts arguments against letting outside transportation companies from picking up or dropping off passengers at the squares or recreation centers. Her statement that “The purpose of my communication to you is that if you have a group planning a trip (whether for a day or longer), the bus companies need to explore pick up location options other than the downtowns or recreation facilities.” has me wondering if there is any place inside The Villages that could be used for this purpose. She doesn’t suggest one.

While I am not yet full time in The Villages, I have heard of many exciting day trips that I would enjoy taking in the future.


We have gone to all of the places that people go on buses, in our car.

Except the gambling places, gambling isn't fun for us.

[kstew43]

We have gone to all of the places that people go on buses, in our car.

Except the gambling places, gambling isn't fun for us.

You are forgeting that some people either don't drive any longer but still want to go places, and also some people want to go but there cars are not reliable enough for the trip...

I think charter buses are a great idea and are usually cost effective.

[graciegirl]

You are forgeting that some people either don't drive any longer but still want to go places, and also some people want to go but there cars are not reliable enough for the trip...

I think charter buses are a great idea and are usually cost effective.


The cost of a day trip on a bus is far greater than driving a car.

Everyone I know has a reliable car here in The Villages and can drive.

I realize that some love bus trips. I am sure the tour bus owners will soon solve this problem. They are the ones that are making money, them and the travel agents.... AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT..

[manaboutown]

Having riddden buses all over Europe, Central America and Asia on tours riding a bus is far, far less costly and more convenient than driving myself, even here in the good old USA. Plus, I can snap photos out the window, eat lunch, even go to the potty while the bus driver deals with the traffic, finds a parking spot and so on.

BTW, my Porsche probably cost about $2/mile to drive. A bus ride runs a small fraction of that.

[CFrance]

Having riddden buses all over Europe, Central America and Asia on tours riding a bus is far, far less costly and more convenient than driving myself, even here in the good old USA. Plus, I can snap photos out the window, eat lunch, even go to the potty while the bus driver deals with the traffic, finds a parking spot and so on.

BTW, my Porsche probably cost about $2/mile to drive. A bus ride runs a small fraction of that.
Well, my Chrysler 200 costs a bit less than your Porsche to drive, although it's not as much fun, but I agree with you.

Another thing to consider is that often it's not only the destination, it can be the journey too. Every year the Three Rivers Club takes 2-3 busloads of Pirates fans to a spring training game in Bradenton. Food/drink is allowed on the buses, videos of Pittsburgh or movies filmed in Pgh are shown, and it's an all-around good time on the bus plus a total convenience to have someone else do the driving on the way back. We probably wouldn't go if we had to drive ourselves.

[villagerjack]

Went on a bus to Spring Training and the bingo games are so annoying I wanted to jump out the window. R22, C36. They repeated each number at least 3 times. Few things annoy me but this really did.

[Bonanza]

Unless I'm missing something, I fail to see a problem with a bus/tour company picking up residents at say, a rec center -- one of the larger ones where parking isn't an issue.
They are there only briefly and it would be more convenient for everyone.

[mulligan]

I think that the point is that parking has become an issue at all the rec centers from time to time. And at the parking lots behind the squares, the business owners don't want their customers inconvenienced more than necessary.

[Villager Joyce]

As I understand it, the problems are caused by the cars left behind in the parking lots. One solution might be for the bus/travel agencies to purchase parking spaces from the churches that have parking lots that virtually sit empty Monday through Saturday. Good for the church. Good for the bus/travel agencies. It could be a great budget enhancer for some of the smaller churches located just off property.

[villages07]

I can understand The Villages not wanting buses to take up parking in the downtown squares and other commercial areas. But, what is the harm in using a large regional rec center parking lot (designating a remote corner) for parking for a day bus trip? Villagers are beneficiaries, we indirectly pay for the rec centers, and, unless there is a special event at the regional center, there is generally ample parking available on the fringes. Seems like that would be a suitable compromise. I don't think any rec center or commercial area should be available for multi-day (e.g. cruise ship) parking.

[twoplanekid]

No place to park in The Villages?

A friend of ours back in Urbana organizes Snooty Fox bus tours for the ladies to ride the 90 miles together to Cincinnati and then shop all day. Not something I would do but my wife thoroughly enjoys the experience. Everyone parks in the local county government’s lot in full view of government officials. If a small community of 10,000 can be accommodative, why can’t a community of 100,000 whose claims to be the friendliest hometown?

I understand that The Villages is watching their residents spend money on the outside and not getting a cut. The idea of using a Church parking lot may work but why do taxpaying residents have to go outside of The Villages? I bet that if these bus trips were a developer sanction activity it would be allowed in The Villages. I believe that the parking issue could be mitigated. As long as local residents don’t have to pay more for the journey, I say let the developer provide the transportation to keep it local and in The Villages.

[CFrance]

Went on a bus to Spring Training and the bingo games are so annoying I wanted to jump out the window. R22, C36. They repeated each number at least 3 times. Few things annoy me but this really did.
Come to a Pirates game. We don't do bingo--only polka in the aisles.:a20:

[tomwed]

It's a little off topic but did you know you can take a greyhound bus from Ocala to Miami for $40. I have family down there and looked into it. It's a short trip to Ocala from here but much more expensive. I wrote to Greyhound and asked them to look into making The Villages a stop.

Maybe they also have great deals going east and west but it doesn't do us any good unless the bus stops here.

I would think there would be more bus riders from The Villages then most communities. We have the time to forget the fuss and leave the driving to us [er them].

I also read that you can take an Amtrak bus from Spanish Springs to Lakeland and then board a train to Miami for around $100 round trip. Does anyone have that experience.

I also don't understand why a private bus has to go "off campus" for a village pick-up. But I guess meeting in a Walmart or other big outside parking lot shouldn't make that much of a difference.

[looneycat]

there are plenty of places for buses like the shopping strips along 466, this is a non issue

[bagboy]

It sure didn't take long to blame all of this on the developer...the town square parking is for Villagers and visitors to use when they are shopping, dining, and enjoying various types of entertainment. The recreation center lots are strictly for the use of Villagers and visitors for the purpose of enjoying the recreation options available. A district rule, not a developer rule.
The tour bus companies are a "for profit" entity that can certainly work out a pick up/drop off solution. This is their business, it's what they do.

[Kahuna32162]

I can’t help but notice that the enforcement of this rule is only targeting “outside” bus companies. The Villages Transpiration, operating out of Lake Sumter Landing, attracts large numbers of customer’s who park in the lots surrounding the hub for sometimes weeks at a time. I also see from their website that they have begun to offer special trips to concerts, shopping and even large buses to the cruise ports. This does seem like a double standard in my eyes and to me, looks like The Villages trying to bully out the competition from other bus companies. Will The Villages transportation be subject to the same kind of restrictions? Or will their customer’s be allowed to continue to fill the lots in front of Cody’s and Barnes and Noble? With the coming addition of the new restaurant in the old TGIF location as well as the continued retail expansions expected to occupy current vacant spaces, what is the plan to accommodate that increase in parking needs?

We are members of the Villages Parrotheads and have enjoyed quite a few of the day trips offered by the group. The buses hold approx. 48 passengers, which translates to about 24 cars parked at the furthest back portion of the Barnes and Noble parking lot for approx. 12 hours. I have never seen a time when the spaces in that lot were so limited that customers of other venues had to seek out alternative places to park. The lot is so empty on any given day that hundreds of bicyclists met up there almost every morning because of the wide open spaces.

As the Villages continues to grow and expand, Lifestyle groups will do the same. I believe that enforcing these restrictions on “non” village transportation companies is wrong and sends the wrong message to anyone trying to plan outings and events for the members of their groups to enjoy.

[graciegirl]

No place to park in The Villages?

A friend of ours back in Urbana organizes Snooty Fox bus tours for the ladies to ride the 70 miles together to Cincinnati and then shop all day. Not something I would do but my wife thoroughly enjoys the experience. Everyone parks in the local county government’s lot in full view of government officials. If a small community of 10,000 can be accommodative, why can’t a community of 100,000 whose claims to be the friendliest hometown?

I understand that The Villages is watching their residents spend money on the outside and not getting a cut. The idea of using a Church parking lot may work but why do taxpaying residents have to go outside of The Villages? I bet that if these bus trips were a developer sanction activity it would be allowed in The Villages. I believe that the parking issue could be mitigated. As long as local residents don’t have to pay more for the journey, I say let the developer provide the transportation to keep it local and in The Villages.

The developer here is not the enemy. AND they own the parking lots which benefit US the Villagers. Why should any of us be aggravated looking for a parking space to help a private business make money? The parking lots were built for us villagers..


And I say let the company making the money solve the problem. What if it was the rec center where I go every week? Or the other folks who live here? WE don't ALL benefit from the bus tour. .

Let the tour bus company and the travel agents buy some vans, hire some drivers and pick up their folks and deliver them back to the homes. The tour bus company and the travel agents are making the money.... which of course would make the price go up......... It is called the cost of doing business. Or they could rent parking places from us THE VILLAGES. It could be put in a fund to pay for things like the bridge sinking or people cutting down trees.

It is NOT greed, it is doing business. The tour bus people aren't our mother. We have invested our money by buying a home here and paying amenities here in THE villages.

[CFrance]

When we went to an expo in Orlando put on by Eukanuba, the buses picked us up in the Target parking lot. Of course, is that TV-owned property?

When it is a TV-related trip put on by one of the TV-sanctioned clubs, I don't see the problem with parking in a TV lot. If there's enough parking for a thousand people to attend the PAC while there's entertainment at SS, there's enough spaces for 150 cars to park while three buses take them somewhere. And maybe that's the rub--they have to make up for a parking problem they may have created.

Why wouldn't it be "blamed on the developer" if it was announced by Janet Tutt?

There is not enough room at any of the grocery store parking lots, at least down in the 466A area, because the lots aren't big enough to hold the shoppers to begin with.

[Baltimore Guy]

What about a bus coming in at night from say Wildwood or Leesburg and dropping of a bunch of kids at the squares and coming back later to pick them up ??

[tomwed]

The developer here is not the enemy. AND they own the parking lots which benefit US the Villagers. Why should any of us be aggravated looking for a parking space to help a private business make money? The parking lots were built for us villagers..


And I say let the company making the money solve the problem. What if it was the rec center where I go every week? Or the other folks who live here? WE don't ALL benefit from the bus tour. .

Let the tour bus company and the travel agents buy some vans, hire some drivers and pick up their folks and deliver them back to the homes. The tour bus company and the travel agents are making the money.... which of course would make the price go up......... It is called the cost of doing business. Or they could rent parking places from us THE VILLAGES. It could be put in a fund to pay for things like the bridge sinking or people cutting down trees.

It is NOT greed, it is doing business. The tour bus people aren't our mother. We have invested our money by buying a home here and paying amenities here in THE villages.

What if the cost of doing business prices the trip beyond the means of the villager? We have a good thing going here for day trips. I'd hate to see that go away. It always seems that whats going away are the fun things for non-active adults. Sooner or later that will be me.

[graciegirl]

What if the cost of doing business prices the trip beyond the means of the villager? We have a good thing going here for day trips. I'd hate to see that go away. It always seems that whats going away are the fun things for non-active adults. Sooner or later that will be me.


If the cost of ANYTHING is beyond the means of anyone..........then the person should not do it. .

We can't have everything we want.

AND I think that MAY be political.

[Kahuna32162]

The developer here is not the enemy. AND they own the parking lots which benefit US the Villagers. Why should any of us be aggravated looking for a parking space to help a private business make money? The parking lots were built for us villagers..


And I say let the company making the money solve the problem. What if it was the rec center where I go every week? Or the other folks who live here? WE don't ALL benefit from the bus tour. .

Let the tour bus company and the travel agents buy some vans, hire some drivers and pick up their folks and deliver them back to the homes. The tour bus company and the travel agents are making the money.... which of course would make the price go up......... It is called the cost of doing business. Or they could rent parking places from us THE VILLAGES. It could be put in a fund to pay for things like the bridge sinking or people cutting down trees.

It is NOT greed, it is doing business. The tour bus people aren't our mother. We have invested our money by buying a home here and paying amenities here in THE villages.

I disagree, answer a few questions...why is this suddenly being enforced....why is TV transportation exempt...If you do not participate in these activities, why bother to even add a comment?

[graciegirl]

I disagree, answer a few questions...why is this suddenly being enforced....why is TV transportation exempt...If you do not participate in these activities, why bother to even add a comment?


Who owns TV Transportation? I think I read that it was sold to a private entity some time ago? Are you saying that they schedule trips and use the parking? I didn't know that. What kind of buses do they have? How much are the trips? I thought they just shuttled people back and forth to airports.

And you are right...I don't use the buses. But when a bus tour person comes on the other news and writes a letter and whines that he isn't getting something free, it gets me all interested.



I will shut my mouth now on this subject, because I really respect you kiddo.

[Beechie]

I am trying to get some context to the issues with Non-Villages Bus Companies loading and unloading of Villages daytripper passengers. How often are we talking about? How many different locations are being used? Is there a parking issue as a result in all specified locations? It is a benefit for Villagers so is there a compromise here somewhere?

[twoplanekid]

The developer here is not the enemy. AND they own the parking lots which benefit US the Villagers. Why should any of us be aggravated looking for a parking space to help a private business make money? The parking lots were built for us villagers..



I didn’t say the developer was the enemy! I believe that many rec center facilities were sold by the developer so now they don’t own everything. All private businesses on the squares could be accused of aggravating parking problems. Everything isn’t owned by the developers. As long as us Villagers are going on the trips, why not allow us to use the parking lots?

As an aside, where can this District rule be found? Are parking problems the problem?

[villagetinker]

As I understand it, the problems are caused by the cars left behind in the parking lots. One solution might be for the bus/travel agencies to purchase parking spaces from the churches that have parking lots that virtually sit empty Monday through Saturday. Good for the church. Good for the bus/travel agencies. It could be a great budget enhancer for some of the smaller churches located just off property.

This is an excellent idea, and one that Perkiomen Tours (Allentown area PA) used for many bus tours. They were lucky enough that they could actually use the parking lot over Sundays, as they made 2-3 pick up spots, so each stop typically had around a dozen cars per bus.

My suggestion: survey the local churches to see who might be interested.

The other option this bus company used was large shopping centers, however, they occasionally ran in to liability concerns, and had to stick to certain areas.
Hope these thoughts help.

[CFrance]

I can’t help but notice that the enforcement of this rule is only targeting “outside” bus companies. The Villages Transpiration, operating out of Lake Sumter Landing, attracts large numbers of customer’s who park in the lots surrounding the hub for sometimes weeks at a time. I also see from their website that they have begun to offer special trips to concerts, shopping and even large buses to the cruise ports. This does seem like a double standard in my eyes and to me, looks like The Villages trying to bully out the competition from other bus companies. Will The Villages transportation be subject to the same kind of restrictions? Or will their customer’s be allowed to continue to fill the lots in front of Cody’s and Barnes and Noble? With the coming addition of the new restaurant in the old TGIF location as well as the continued retail expansions expected to occupy current vacant spaces, what is the plan to accommodate that increase in parking needs?

We are members of the Villages Parrotheads and have enjoyed quite a few of the day trips offered by the group. The buses hold approx. 48 passengers, which translates to about 24 cars parked at the furthest back portion of the Barnes and Noble parking lot for approx. 12 hours. I have never seen a time when the spaces in that lot were so limited that customers of other venues had to seek out alternative places to park. The lot is so empty on any given day that hundreds of bicyclists met up there almost every morning because of the wide open spaces.

As the Villages continues to grow and expand, Lifestyle groups will do the same. I believe that enforcing these restrictions on “non” village transportation companies is wrong and sends the wrong message to anyone trying to plan outings and events for the members of their groups to enjoy.
:agree:Add this to the list of things taken away one by one that someone on another thread said was no big deal. Typically a family business doesn't survive past the second generation (only 30% of the time in the second generation, 12% in the third). In this case it has, but when the kids take over the reigns, sometimes things can start to deteriorate.

[Beechie]

This is an excellent idea, and one that Perkiomen Tours (Allentown area PA) used for many bus tours. They were lucky enough that they could actually use the parking lot over Sundays, as they made 2-3 pick up spots, so each stop typically had around a dozen cars per bus.

My suggestion: survey the local churches to see who might be interested.

The other option this bus company used was large shopping centers, however, they occasionally ran in to liability concerns, and had to stick to certain areas.
Hope these thoughts help.

Perhaps the liability issue is the larger issue at hand? I also agree the local churches could be an option as well.

[billethkid]

I am trying to get some context to the issues with Non-Villages Bus Companies loading and unloading of Villages daytripper passengers. How often are we talking about? How many different locations are being used? Is there a parking issue as a result in all specified locations? It is a benefit for Villagers so is there a compromise here somewhere?

Imagine a travel agent that handles cruises. And an enticement is "free" transportation to the cruise port. Assume 20 people....further assume 10 cars. The assigned pick up point is one of the parking lots at any one of the squares.
That would be 10 spaces locked up for one week or more. I do not think day trips an issue as using a space for the day would be no different than going to a movie, dinner, night on the town.

Now start to figure how many clubs? How many events? how many buses? How many spaces locked up?

We recently went on a cruise with bus included. The pick up point was behind McDonalds on 441 North across from Walmart. We were told to be driven to the pick up point and not leave cars parked in any of the parking lots.

Some rules like what one can or cannot put in their yard for display are supposed to be for the greater good of the integrity of "the lifestyle".

This is an issue that needs a lot of information to allow folks to have a valid informed decision....in my opinion.

[bnb8521]

I agree completely with Janet. Parking is for people using the squares. Not long term parking for Cruises and day trips.

[Topspinmo]

Don't the village have two buse stops in LSL and SS? They are not on the squares but close. So what's the point of having bus stop. Arn't the day tour trips for villager's. Don't I pay ammenity fees.

Now I could understand if non-villagers are using our space and not paying the monthly fee.
I take it the restriction also includes the day trips by the long life learning center if they are chartered buses also right?

Hey I've got great idea! Pay for parking in all the parking lots and spaces on village property!:beer3:

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Unless I'm missing something, I fail to see a problem with a bus/tour company picking up residents at say, a rec center -- one of the larger ones where parking isn't an issue.
They are there only briefly and it would be more convenient for everyone.

The people being picked up leave their cars there for the day. If a bus holds 100 people, that's about 60 additional cars in the parking lot. And they are cars of people that are not using the squares or rec centers on that day.

[NJblue]

To me, the biggest beneficiary of these bus tours is us, the people of The Villages.

This is the Mission, Purpose and Vision statement of the CDD from their web site.

Mission

To provide responsible and accountable Public Service that enhances and sustains our community.

Purpose

To provide and preserve the lifestyle of Florida’s Friendliest Hometown.

Vision

To be respected as the most responsive and responsible Community Development District.



It would seem to me a no brainer that the CDD, if it wants to adhere to its own standards, that it would do everything possible to work with the clubs and associations that are sanctioned by TV to make these bus trips possible.

On the other hand, if outside businesses or organizations (such as travel agencies, etc.) want to use our parking facilities, they should be blocked.

[JoMar]

When we went to an expo in Orlando put on by Eukanuba, the buses picked us up in the Target parking lot. Of course, is that TV-owned property?

When it is a TV-related trip put on by one of the TV-sanctioned clubs, I don't see the problem with parking in a TV lot. If there's enough parking for a thousand people to attend the PAC while there's entertainment at SS, there's enough spaces for 150 cars to park while three buses take them somewhere. And maybe that's the rub--they have to make up for a parking problem they may have created.

Why wouldn't it be "blamed on the developer" if it was announced by Janet Tutt?

There is not enough room at any of the grocery store parking lots, at least down in the 466A area, because the lots aren't big enough to hold the shoppers to begin with.

You do know that Janet Tutt doesn't represent the developer right? You do know that District operates under the State Law in FL which established CDD's and developer is an independent business? You do do know that while TV sanctions some of the clubs they don't sponsor or make club rules or have any obligation to the clubs. If you want to part at any of commercial parking areas you should get involved and talk to them. They will also ask you to sign a waiver releasing them of liability if your car is damaged, especially if you are bringing in 24+ cars. Let the tour companies work it out, they will find a solution.

[NJblue]

The people being picked up leave their cars there for the day. If a bus holds 100 people, that's about 60 additional cars in the parking lot. And they are cars of people that are not using the squares or rec centers on that day.

But, the rec centers and their parking lots are there for the benefit of Villagers. Some Villagers will have their lifestyle enhanced for the day by using the parking lot so they can go into the rec center. Others will have their lifestyle enhanced by being able to go on a bus trip. Unless there is a major event going on in the rec center, there is plenty of parking available to keep both groups of amenity-paying Villagers happy. It would be fairly simple to set up a permit system so that rec centers which may be having a major event going on would be exempt from having its lot used for bus trips.

[memason]

Seems to me that the bus services are the ones that need to find a place to pickup passengers. Not sure why we have all this debate over where to park for trips.

If you run a business, it's your responsibility to provide adequate parking for your customers.

As The Villages grow, parking is becoming more of a premium.

[NJblue]

Seems to me that the bus services are the ones that need to find a place to pickup passengers. Not sure why we have all this debate over where to park for trips.

If you run a business, it's your responsibility to provide adequate parking for your customers.

As The Villages grow, parking is becoming more of a premium.

A principle argument of those who favor growth in TV is that as it grows, infrastructure grows with it. If that is true, then the number of parking spaces per household should be fairly static.

If it is tour companies/travel agencies who are trying to make a buck by organizing daytrips or longer, I completely agree with you that it is up to them to find a solution. However, if it is a club or group of people within TV that wants to charter a bus for a trip, then we, as Village stakeholders via the CDD should do everything possible to encourage that activity.

Amenity fees are designed to provide amenities. One amenity that is very cheap to offer is a parking spot that in almost all cases is going to be vacant.

[CFrance]

A principle argument of those who favor growth in TV is that as it grows, infrastructure grows with it. If that is true, then the number of parking spaces per household should be fairly static.

If it is tour companies/travel agencies who are trying to make a buck by organizing daytrips or longer, I completely agree with you that it is up to them to find a solution. However, if it is a club or group of people within TV that wants to charter a bus for a trip, then we, as Village stakeholders via the CDD should do everything possible to encourage that activity.

Amenity fees are designed to provide amenities. One amenity that is very cheap to offer is a parking spot that in almost all cases is going to be vacant.
Bravo.

[Bogie Shooter]

Don't the village have two buse stops in LSL and SS? They are not on the squares but close. So what's the point of having bus stop. Arn't the day tour trips for villager's. Don't I pay ammenity fees.

Now I could understand if non-villagers are using our space and not paying the monthly fee.
I take it the restriction also includes the day trips by the long life learning center if they are chartered buses also right?

Hey I've got great idea! Pay for parking in all the parking lots and spaces on village property!:beer3:

What part of your amenity fees are used for the parking lots at LSL & SS?

[janmcn]

You do know that Janet Tutt doesn't represent the developer right? You do know that District operates under the State Law in FL which established CDD's and developer is an independent business? You do do know that while TV sanctions some of the clubs they don't sponsor or make club rules or have any obligation to the clubs. If you want to part at any of commercial parking areas you should get involved and talk to them. They will also ask you to sign a waiver releasing them of liability if your car is damaged, especially if you are bringing in 24+ cars. Let the tour companies work it out, they will find a solution.


You do know that Janet Tutt is appointed to her job by the developer and cannot be fired by anyone other than that developer?

[skip0358]

Just to shed a little light here. As a member of a Club in TV one of my functions is to set up off Campus trips. We plan the trip and hire a local bus to pick us up. We've been told that we can no longer have a bus come on ANY DISTRICT parking lot within TV to pick us up. This includes all the property within TV and the parking lots of the stores along 466, 466a, 441,44 etc. that are owned and operated by TV. Now as far as The Villages Transportation they still can use the Parking area. They have 1 large bus they will use for day trips. The cost was $125.00 more then the current bus company we were using. AAA does trips out of TV and since they have locations within TV they are still allowed to Pickup within TV. There price for a trip we just booked was $13.00 P/P more than what we were paying. We are trying to work something out but it's not easy. The real kicker is 90% of the people who went on our trips would bring their golf carts and in the back lots you can put 4 golf carts in 1 parking place if you park right. I can understand keeping the lots around the square available for square shopping and parking but there has to be somewhere to park. Also incase you're not aware the District Office is now above Johnny Rockets & Starbucks so all the workers now park in that lot in the daytime and a large fleet of District owned vehicles park there at night. So yep parking is an issue really ?:undecided:

[kansasr]

A principle argument of those who favor growth in TV is that as it grows, infrastructure grows with it. If that is true, then the number of parking spaces per household should be fairly static.

If it is tour companies/travel agencies who are trying to make a buck by organizing daytrips or longer, I completely agree with you that it is up to them to find a solution. However, if it is a club or group of people within TV that wants to charter a bus for a trip, then we, as Village stakeholders via the CDD should do everything possible to encourage that activity.

Amenity fees are designed to provide amenities. One amenity that is very cheap to offer is a parking spot that in almost all cases is going to be vacant.


We seem to be looking for solutions to problems that don't exist or throw out the baby with the bathwater, in this case, lumping in parking at regional rec centers because of problems with parking at the squares.

Our social group on more than one occasion has chartered a bus to take us to places like Orlando or Tampa and we park at one of the regional rec centers and meet the bus there. There has NEVER been a problem with the parking lots being even remotely filled on these occasions.

[Kahuna32162]

OK, let me make sure I have this right....if you run bus trips AND have an office in TV, it's OK to have your buses pick up from the squares or Rec Centers. AAA, TV Transportation and the Lifelong Learning College are perfect examples.

So, all the "outside" companies need to do is rent one of the many empty office spaces in TV and that should solve the problem...right?

[Kahuna32162]

We seem to be looking for solutions to problems that don't exist or throw out the baby with the bathwater, in this case, lumping in parking at regional rec centers because of problems with parking at the squares.

Our social group on more than one occasion has chartered a bus to take us to places like Orlando or Tampa and we park at one of the regional rec centers and meet the bus there. There has NEVER been a problem with the parking lots being even remotely filled on these occasions.

Your social group should have just rec'd the memo from Janet Tutt in regards to using "outside" bus transportation.

[Justus]

A principle argument of those who favor growth in TV is that as it grows, infrastructure grows with it. If that is true, then the number of parking spaces per household should be fairly static.

If it is tour companies/travel agencies who are trying to make a buck by organizing daytrips or longer, I completely agree with you that it is up to them to find a solution. However, if it is a club or group of people within TV that wants to charter a bus for a trip, then we, as Village stakeholders via the CDD should do everything possible to encourage that activity.

Amenity fees are designed to provide amenities. One amenity that is very cheap to offer is a parking spot that in almost all cases is going to be vacant.

I agree 100%. We've gone on neighborhood/club cruises and/or one-day excursions and have been prohibited from leaving our car in our neighborhood recreation center lot. We have, along with other neighbors, in some cases, 80-year-olds, hauled our luggage several blocks from our home to the bus while the recreation center parking lot lies empty in our absence. Many retirement communities offer shuttles from a resident's home to club outing pick-up points. A convenient parking place would be a small and inexpensive alternative, and a means of accommodating an aging resident population.

[Buckeyephan]

The last AAA trip I took picked up at their SS office. No less convenient than the previous spot. If you take a Senior Adventures tour, you park for free at the Recreation Plantation. Frankly the parking at LSL was a nightmare this winter. Can't imagine how much worse it would be if bus loads of people were parked there, too. Those trips are available to non-residents. Do we want them taking up spots? Also, we will soon have thousands more Villagers crowding into what we have now. I'm glad that TPTB are being proactive. Maybe I'll go north for the winter to escape the throngs of incoming.

[JoMar]

You do know that Janet Tutt is appointed to her job by the developer and cannot be fired by anyone other than that developer?

Maybe was......not is. Janet Tutt has solid line reporting to the 11 CDD's, the VCCDD, SLCDD, BCDD and the NSCUDD. The VCCDD, SLCDD and BCDD are established through the State of Florida subject to local government approval, like all CDD's. I will ask the question, but I would suspect if the CDD's wanted to change management they could. Since the Districts must comply with Chapter 190 as must the transition by the Developer, I don't see a long term reason for the Developer to play in that arena even if he legally could.

[DianeM]

I think day trips are a lot of fun for a great many people. I myself do them infrequently. I think TV is trying to mandate way too many rules for the way people would like to live their lives. I guess pretty soon we will have to wear ankle monitors so TV knows when we leave the Bubble

[Bogie Shooter]

Maybe was......not is. Janet Tutt has solid line reporting to the 11 CDD's, the VCCDD, SLCDD, BCDD and the NSCUDD. The VCCDD, SLCDD and BCDD are established through the State of Florida subject to local government approval, like all CDD's. I will ask the question, but I would suspect if the CDD's wanted to change management they could. Since the Districts must comply with Chapter 190 as must the transition by the Developer, I don't see a long term reason for the Developer to play in that arena even if he legally could.

You are right of course. However, some just like to bash Ms Tutt.

[Villager Joyce]

I think day trips are a lot of fun for a great many people. I myself do them infrequently. I think TV is trying to mandate way too many rules for the way people would like to live their lives. I guess pretty soon we will have to wear ankle monitors so TV knows when we leave the Bubble

Diane, you are close but backwards. TV cares where we are in the bubble. They don't care when we leave. Seriously, without all the rules there would be anarchy. :girlneener:

[redwitch]

Not too long ago, I was on my merry rounds and turned onto Viola in Dunedin. Had to sit and wait while a bus was loaded. Golf carts and cars were parked in several driveways. Wondered why this group was not loading at a rec center. Guess now I know why. Think this solution would work for day trips. Not so sure about several carts and cars in driveways overnight or longer.

[l2ridehd]

The main issue is being lost. The issue is not the buses making the pick up and drop off, it's the cars left behind for the duration of the bus trip. Rec center parking lots are over flowing now. Shopping centers don't have enough parking and it is a challenge to find parking at the squares.

If buses were allowed to pick up passengers at these locations, soon there would be 100 buses doing it and that would add 4000 cars taking up space in an already challenged parking situation. Granted during the off season parking is much less an issue, but I don't think you could make a rule for just certain months.

As for Villages transportation being allowed to do it, they don't create a parking problem as they also provide at home pick up and drop off.

So personally I agree with the developer, don't add to the parking issue by allowing outside business a parking solution to their problem. Let them find a solution to solve their business issue. Church lots is a good one, and I am sure there are other near by business that could use the added revenue and have available space.

[Taltarzac725]

The main issue is being lost. The issue is not the buses making the pick up and drop off, it's the cars left behind for the duration of the bus trip. Rec center parking lots are over flowing now. Shopping centers don't have enough parking and it is a challenge to find parking at the squares.

If buses were allowed to pick up passengers at these locations, soon there would be 100 buses doing it and that would add 4000 cars taking up space in an already challenged parking situation. Granted during the off season parking is much less an issue, but I don't think you could make a rule for just certain months.

As for Villages transportation being allowed to do it, they don't create a parking problem as they also provide at home pick up and drop off.

So personally I agree with the developer, don't add to the parking issue by allowing outside business a parking solution to their problem. Let them find a solution to solve their business issue. Church lots is a good one, and I am sure there are other near by business that could use the added revenue and have available space.

This church lot idea sounds like a good one and seems to have been presented by a number of TOTVers.

[iaudit]

Maybe was......not is. Janet Tutt has solid line reporting to the 11 CDD's, the VCCDD, SLCDD, BCDD and the NSCUDD. The VCCDD, SLCDD and BCDD are established through the State of Florida subject to local government approval, like all CDD's. I will ask the question, but I would suspect if the CDD's wanted to change management they could. Since the Districts must comply with Chapter 190 as must the transition by the Developer, I don't see a long term reason for the Developer to play in that arena even if he legally could.

The VCCDD, SLCDD and BCDD may have been established through Chapter 190 BUT they will always be controlled by the developer and Janet Tutt works for them, not the other residential CDD's. She has no real control over residential CDD's, witness the line painting on multi-modal path done by one CDD which she opposed.

[kstew43]

The cost of a day trip on a bus is far greater than driving a car.

Everyone I know has a reliable car here in The Villages and can drive.

I realize that some love bus trips. I am sure the tour bus owners will soon solve this problem. They are the ones that are making money, them and the travel agents.... AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT..


Goodie for you......I know of many people that are not as lucky as you...

In my time spent in the villages I have met many who because of medical reasons can not drive, particularly at night, and many who can not afford to buy a newer car that they will feel safe making a 2 hour trip...

[Bonny]

The main issue is being lost. The issue is not the buses making the pick up and drop off, it's the cars left behind for the duration of the bus trip. Rec center parking lots are over flowing now. Shopping centers don't have enough parking and it is a challenge to find parking at the squares.

If buses were allowed to pick up passengers at these locations, soon there would be 100 buses doing it and that would add 4000 cars taking up space in an already challenged parking situation. Granted during the off season parking is much less an issue, but I don't think you could make a rule for just certain months.

As for Villages transportation being allowed to do it, they don't create a parking problem as they also provide at home pick up and drop off.

So personally I agree with the developer, don't add to the parking issue by allowing outside business a parking solution to their problem. Let them find a solution to solve their business issue. Church lots is a good one, and I am sure there are other near by business that could use the added revenue and have available space.
I would add to that a liability issue. Once you give that permission to park, people are sure to blame the Villages if something was done to their vehicle. :rant-rave:

[Challenger]

Commercial operators need to conractually provide for their operations. If parking were not a problem we would't be having this conversation.
Imagine if there had never been buses coming into the Villages parking areas and there was an announcement that they would now be invited in, the uproar would be heard to Canada.
Bus trips are great- the operators need to take responsibility for the care of their customers.

[NJblue]

I would add to that a liability issue. Once you give that permission to park, people are sure to blame the Villages if something was done to their vehicle. :rant-rave:

How is that any different than when a villager parks to go into a rec center? Whether a villager is enjoying the amenity of free parking to go into a rec center or free parking to participate in a Villages endorsed club activity, the risks are the same. Why discriminate against those Villagers who want to enjoy themselves outside The Villages?

[NJblue]

The main issue is being lost. The issue is not the buses making the pick up and drop off, it's the cars left behind for the duration of the bus trip. Rec center parking lots are over flowing now. Shopping centers don't have enough parking and it is a challenge to find parking at the squares.

If buses were allowed to pick up passengers at these locations, soon there would be 100 buses doing it and that would add 4000 cars taking up space in an already challenged parking situation. Granted during the off season parking is much less an issue, but I don't think you could make a rule for just certain months.

As for Villages transportation being allowed to do it, they don't create a parking problem as they also provide at home pick up and drop off.

So personally I agree with the developer, don't add to the parking issue by allowing outside business a parking solution to their problem. Let them find a solution to solve their business issue. Church lots is a good one, and I am sure there are other near by business that could use the added revenue and have available space.

You are conflating two different issues. Most would agree that businesses that organize tours for profit and certainly those that allow non-Villagers to participate should be either banned or charged for the right to use Village property for their benefit. However, when the trip is organized by Villages clubs and it is Village amenity-paying residents who are being denied use of what their amenities are paying for, the situation is completely different.

The Rec center parking lots are designed for peak use. They have to be since there is no alternative parking. All rec centers are not at peak usage at all times. It is possible to determine which centers may be experiencing a peak condition long in advance because the rooms have to be reserved and the purpose noted. It doesn't require a logistical genius to determine which parking lots may have excess capacity at any given time. All one would have to do is set up a permit system where the Village club wanting to sponsor a bus trip could put in a request for a parking permit and the recreation department could assign a rec center parking lot for that event.

What astounds me by this whole discussion is that those who favor the bus ban do so knowing that their friends and neighbors are the ones who are paying the price by having to jump through hoops because an amenity that they are paying for is being denied them. Whatever happened to the concept of "The Florida's Friendliest Home Town"? It seems to be being replaced by the country's most bureaucratic home town.

[Bonny]

How is that any different than when a villager parks to go into a rec center? Whether a villager is enjoying the amenity of free parking to go into a rec center or free parking to participate in a Villages endorsed club activity, the risks are the same. Why discriminate against those Villagers who want to enjoy themselves outside The Villages?
My goodness. I wasn't discriminating against anyone !! How would I be discriminating ?? Just making a simple statement ! I also do have some things to base my opinion on. If someone goes into a rec center and something happens, well maybe okay. However, when someone has permission to leave their car somewhere when they are gone and something happens, some people would blame the establishment.
I've seen it happen. It also happened at AAA when someone left their car. It got vandalized while they were on one of the bus trips and they wanted AAA to pay their deductible.
Years ago we went on a cruise. We got the bus at Walmart and decided to leave our van up in the very front of the parking lot. Our van was stolen. You can't believe how many people said I should try to sue Walmart.

[NJblue]

My goodness. I wasn't discriminating against anyone. !! Just making a simple statement ! I also do have some things to base my opinion on. If someone goes into a rec center and something happens, well maybe okay. However, when someone has permission to leave their car somewhere when they are gone and something happens, some people would blame the establishment.
I've seen it happen. It also happened at AAA when someone left their car. It got vandalized while they were on one of the bus trips and they wanted AAA to pay their deductible.
Years ago we went on a cruise. We got the bus at Walmart and decided to leave our van up in the very front of the parking lot. Our van was stolen. You can't believe how many people said I should try to sue Walmart.

I'm sure the lawyers could come up with a release statement associated with the permit to have the bus pick them up that would absolve TV of any liability. Compared with liability issues associated with swimming pools, golf courses and golf cart paths, which TV manges to deal with, parking lots are pretty low on the pecking order.

[Buckeyephan]

People seem to forget that rec center parking lots are for people actually using the rec centers. Our fees are not going to guarantee that everyone can do everything they want whenever they want. If people were hired to figure out what parking lot is available for every bus trip, I'd hate to hear the outcry when fees go up to pay for this service. All this whining is giving me a headache. My 4-year-old grandson is now having a tantrum because I wouldn't pick up the car he dropped. Sounds like a perfect future villager.

[Bavarian]

Not much different than people meeting in a back parking lot to carpool to another destination.

[l2ridehd]

You are conflating two different issues. Most would agree that businesses that organize tours for profit and certainly those that allow non-Villagers to participate should be either banned or charged for the right to use Village property for their benefit. However, when the trip is organized by Villages clubs and it is Village amenity-paying residents who are being denied use of what their amenities are paying for, the situation is completely different.

The Rec center parking lots are designed for peak use. They have to be since there is no alternative parking. All rec centers are not at peak usage at all times. It is possible to determine which centers may be experiencing a peak condition long in advance because the rooms have to be reserved and the purpose noted. It doesn't require a logistical genius to determine which parking lots may have excess capacity at any given time. All one would have to do is set up a permit system where the Village club wanting to sponsor a bus trip could put in a request for a parking permit and the recreation department could assign a rec center parking lot for that event.

What astounds me by this whole discussion is that those who favor the bus ban do so knowing that their friends and neighbors are the ones who are paying the price by having to jump through hoops because an amenity that they are paying for is being denied them. Whatever happened to the concept of "The Florida's Friendliest Home Town"? It seems to be being replaced by the country's most bureaucratic home town.


I don't believe I am conflating two different issues. And when parking lots become full and the club member gets what they are paying their amenities fee for, others are denied what their fee is supposed to cover. This is the same issue of going to the square and roping off 20 seats for your friends. This denies others the access to those seats who pay the exact same amenities fee. If the squares and rec centers had lots of excess parking than it could work. They don't so it has the potential to create problems for others.

[NJblue]

I don't believe I am conflating two different issues. And when parking lots become full and the club member gets what they are paying their amenities fee for, others are denied what their fee is supposed to cover. This is the same issue of going to the square and roping off 20 seats for your friends. This denies others the access to those seats who pay the exact same amenities fee. If the squares and rec centers had lots of excess parking than it could work. They don't so it has the potential to create problems for others.


You are ignoring the issue of having permits. If you are saying that all parking lots are always filled to capacity, then I think there is a little smoke being blown.

It is not even close to the same situation as roping off seats. To bring that up tells us that your mind is made up and to hell with a rational discussion.

[NJblue]

People seem to forget that rec center parking lots are for people actually using the rec centers. Our fees are not going to guarantee that everyone can do everything they want whenever they want. If people were hired to figure out what parking lot is available for every bus trip, I'd hate to hear the outcry when fees go up to pay for this service. All this whining is giving me a headache. My 4-year-old grandson is now having a tantrum because I wouldn't pick up the car he dropped. Sounds like a perfect future villager.

Perhaps I missed the document that states what the rec center parking lots are to be restricted to. Could you provide a link to it?

Fees going up to pay for administration of a parking permit? Give me a break.

[JoMar]

The VCCDD, SLCDD and BCDD may have been established through Chapter 190 BUT they will always be controlled by the developer and Janet Tutt works for them, not the other residential CDD's. She has no real control over residential CDD's, witness the line painting on multi-modal path done by one CDD which she opposed.

Well you have your opinion and that's ok. Also, I said she has no control over any of the CDD's, they don't report to her. She is a service provider and manages those that provide, and facilitates those services to the CDD's. She has more of a global view then the individual Districts which, IMO, is what it should be. Which is why the striping issue is where it is.

[cquick]

I also have a problem with buses picking up people for a day trip, or outside bus companies dropping people off at squares, country clubs, etc. People like to go places, and many people don't drive long distances any more. It's fun to go with a group. Where would the best place to leave for a trip?

[tomwed]

I estimated there were about 350 parking spots behind the sales office in Brownwood. If the bus pick up is in that parking lot who would benefit?

The sales force and tour speakers who tell the potential buyer[s] about the day trips.
The coffee shops before the trip for the early birds that want to bring coffee and donuts on board,
The restaurants who feed the people after the trip who don't feel like cooking.
And the person who rides the bus and kinda, sorta helped pay for the parking lot maybe a little. [that's a push]

[l2ridehd]

You are ignoring the issue of having permits. If you are saying that all parking lots are always filled to capacity, then I think there is a little smoke being blown.

It is not even close to the same situation as roping off seats. To bring that up tells us that your mind is made up and to hell with a rational discussion.

And please show me where I said the parking lots are always filled to capacity???? Never said that. So please do not try to tell me what I am saying. In fact I did say it could work on selective months.

And it is very close to the seat roping issue. It is a select group of people wanting what they want for themselves and disregard the use of common parking lots for others for what they were designed to be used. The more I think about it, it is the exact same issue. And I went back and read all my posts and only saw rational discussion.

[graciegirl]

And please show me where I said the parking lots are always filled to capacity???? Never said that. So please do not try to tell me what I am saying. In fact I did say it could work on selective months.

And it is very close to the seat roping issue. It is a select group of people wanting what they want for themselves and disregard the use of common parking lots for others for what they were designed to be used. The more I think about it, it is the exact same issue. And I went back and read all my posts and only saw rational discussion.


This poster, l2ridehd, was being discussed on our lanai this very morning. It was said this guy is one of the wisest and most reasonable people in The Villages.

[skip0358]

I estimated there were about 350 parking spots behind the sales office in Brownwood. If the bus pick up is in that parking lot who would benefit?

The sales force and tour speakers who tell the potential buyer[s] about the day trips.
The coffee shops before the trip for the early birds that want to bring coffee and donuts on board,
The restaurants who feed the people after the trip who don't feel like cooking.
And the person who rides the bus and kinda, sorta helped pay for the parking lot maybe a little. [that's a push]

Agree there has to be someplace a bus can pick people up for a Day Trip. The coffee shops do benefit the restaurants benefit and the resident is going somewhere for a day. The new transportation outfit using the LSL bus stop takes people to the Airport and cars are parked there for days sometimes a week or more. Why is that right that parking lot is packed just about all the time.

[graciegirl]

WHERE do you who want these bus rides go, that make you feel so intense about it??? A shuttle to the airport is very important I would say and a real need to all who live here.

[manaboutown]

This poster, l2ridehd, was being discussed on our lanai this very morning. It was said this guy is one of the wisest and most reasonable people in The Villages.


:clap2::clap2::clap2:

Well said, Gracie. He has posted much helpful information on many topics as well provided some logical analysis and viable solutions for various difficult situations over the years.

[twoplanekid]

Once the snow birds leave The Villages, is parking still an issue? I understand that the high people/car season is January to the end of March. If parking is not an issue for most of the year, then why exclude this activity for the whole year? It just seems to me that the Village government could be more accommodating to Village groups wanting to arrange their bus trips. Is there another concern other than just parking for this banning of outside buses?

[graciegirl]

Once the snow birds leave The Villages, is parking still an issue. I understand that the high people/car season is January to the end of March. If parking is not an issue for most of the year, then why exclude this activity for the whole year? It just seems to me that the Village government could be more accommodating to Village groups wanting to arrange their bus trips. Is there another concern other than just parking for this banning of outside buses?

Keeping The Villages for Villagers is important.

Did you see the thread I started about Tupperware Parties disallowed at the rec centers? It is the same principle.

If you allow it for one, you allow it for all. What if the gambling casinos were sending buses here hourly?

[skip0358]

WHERE do you who want these bus rides go, that make you feel so intense about it??? A shuttle to the airport is very important I would say and a real need to all who live here.

Clubs take them to Ball Games, Concerts, Universal Studios, St. Pete's Beach, Seafood Festivals, Other Clubs Events, Tampa Downs, Dog Races, Hudson Diner Theater, Capone's Comedy & Diner Show, Tarpon Springs, Strawberry Festival, Football Games, Drive Inn Movie to watch live telecast of Jimmy Buffett Concert, etc.

[CFrance]

Clubs take them to Ball Games, Concerts, Universal Studios, St. Pete's Beach, Seafood Festivals, Other Clubs Events, Tampa Downs, Dog Races, Hudson Diner Theater, Capone's Comedy & Diner Show, Tarpon Springs, Strawberry Festival, Football Games, Drive Inn Movie to watch live telecast of Jimmy Buffett Concert, etc.
... to name just a few!

[twoplanekid]

Keeping The Villages for Villagers is important.

Did you see the thread I started about Tupperware Parties disallowed at the rec centers? It is the same principle.

If you allow it for one, you allow it for all. What if the gambling casinos were sending buses here hourly?

Sorry, I skipped the Tupperware Parties discussion. So, this talk about parking space issues was incorrect and not the true reason for the banning of outside busses. As I am not currently in The Villages, I will write a letter to Ms. Tutt and ask for a clarification on this issue to post on this site.

[graciegirl]

Clubs take them to Ball Games, Concerts, Universal Studios, St. Pete's Beach, Seafood Festivals, Other Clubs Events, Tampa Downs, Dog Races, Hudson Diner Theater, Capone's Comedy & Diner Show, Tarpon Springs, Strawberry Festival, Football Games, Drive Inn Movie to watch live telecast of Jimmy Buffett Concert, etc.

Thank you SKip. Now I know. I stand corrected. That makes it a LOT more understandable. AND a lot of buses, how often do most people go?

AND TWO PLANE KID...You can keep up with issues if you read The Daily Sun AND villages dash news dot come online. If I typed it correctly it would be changed into these; **************.com.

[graciegirl]

I don't believe I am conflating two different issues. And when parking lots become full and the club member gets what they are paying their amenities fee for, others are denied what their fee is supposed to cover. This is the same issue of going to the square and roping off 20 seats for your friends. This denies others the access to those seats who pay the exact same amenities fee. If the squares and rec centers had lots of excess parking than it could work. They don't so it has the potential to create problems for others.


bump

[Shimpy]

I understand that the high people/car season is January to the end of March. ?

True, but the off seasons now are as busy as what used to be snowbird season just 5 years ago.

[kstew43]

My goodness. I wasn't discriminating against anyone !! How would I be discriminating ?? Just making a simple statement ! I also do have some things to base my opinion on. If someone goes into a rec center and something happens, well maybe okay. However, when someone has permission to leave their car somewhere when they are gone and something happens, some people would blame the establishment.
I've seen it happen. It also happened at AAA when someone left their car. It got vandalized while they were on one of the bus trips and they wanted AAA to pay their deductible.
Years ago we went on a cruise. We got the bus at Walmart and decided to leave our van up in the very front of the parking lot. Our van was stolen. You can't believe how many people said I should try to sue Walmart.

was it stolen or maybe towed away?

[janmcn]

Sorry, I skipped the Tupperware Parties discussion. So, this talk about parking space issues was incorrect and not the true reason for the banning of outside busses. As I am not currently in The Villages, I will write a letter to Ms. Tutt and ask for a clarification on this issue to post on this site.


If you go to the on-lines news website, scroll down and click on "read more news", then scroll down again until you come to the article titled "Janet Tutt's Memo Outlines Reasons For Banning Outside Buses From Squares" dated April 17. You can read the memo sent out to various clubs and organizations in its entirety.

[kstew43]

WHERE do you who want these bus rides go, that make you feel so intense about it??? A shuttle to the airport is very important I would say and a real need to all who live here.

Shopping in Orlando was a big one, Maybe to the beach for the day, Disney, Universal....lots of things people want to go and can't.

[twoplanekid]

If you go to the on-lines news website, scroll down and click on "read more news", then scroll down again until you come to the article titled "Janet Tutt's Memo Outlines Reasons For Banning Outside Buses From Squares" dated April 17. You can read the memo sent out to various clubs and organizations in its entirety.

Thanks, I read her memo but a few have suggested that one hidden agenda was to keep outsiders from operating in TV. I will ask her if parking is the only issue and if other measures are to follow as parking availability will only grow worse as TV continues to grow.

[bagboy]

It's pretty clear...the recreation lots are for us Villagers who ARE here. The parking lots are for Villagers and visitors to use for shopping, dining, entertainment, etc. Those of us who live here have seen the recreation lots full to capacity on many occasions, and the LSL lot where the airport shuttle stops is never full with week long or longer parking.
There is still alot of land for sale near the Villages. How about the tour bus companies joining together, buying a few acres, and setting up a very nice pick-up/drop off point... complete with short term and long term parking for anyone wanting to take a day/week/month or longer trip???

[Bonny]

was it stolen or maybe towed away?
No it was stolen. They found it trashed in an area of the Ocala Forest a few weeks later. It went for a lot of joy rides.

[tomwed]

Is there a way of finding out how many club bus or day trips there are a year?
Maybe there are less than 100? or 50?
I wonder if all the busses fill up? or there are empty seats that would be filled if all the trips were centrally advertised.
There might be some fun trips that we are missing just because we don't know where to look,

[Bonny]

The Sunday paper lists all kinds of trips open to Villagers.

[tomwed]

The Sunday paper lists all kinds of trips open to Villagers.
thank-you Bonnie
Do you think it's also on their web-site? I stopped getting the paper. It's a great deal and they do a good job. Are these club trips or outsiders?

[graciegirl]

Is there a way of finding out how many club bus or day trips there are a year?
Maybe there are less than 100? or 50?
I wonder if all the busses fill up? or there are empty seats that would be filled if all the trips were centrally advertised.
There might be some fun trips that we are missing just because we don't know where to look,


I have heard of three or four that a travel agent was trying to fill and folks were intensely asking for us to join them so they could fill the bus.

We just prefer to drive where we are going while we still can. Over the years we have seen most of the tourist attractions, or opted not to see them. If everyone liked the same thing, they would only sell vanilla ice cream.

[Bonny]

thank-you Bonnie
Do you think it's also on their web-site? I stopped getting the paper. It's a great deal and they do a good job. Are these club trips or outsiders?
Not sure. It's in the travel section. They are open to anyone. They mostly put up the big news.

[blueash]

As the roads in TV are public highways, except for the villa roads, and on street parking is legal... Is this new rule going to result in bus companies selecting a side road and telling their customers to drive and park on the road where they will be picked up? Then the cars line the street for the day or the week?

[NJblue]

And please show me where I said the parking lots are always filled to capacity???? Never said that. So please do not try to tell me what I am saying. In fact I did say it could work on selective months.

And it is very close to the seat roping issue. It is a select group of people wanting what they want for themselves and disregard the use of common parking lots for others for what they were designed to be used. The more I think about it, it is the exact same issue. And I went back and read all my posts and only saw rational discussion.

If you blow off the concept of a permit system with a response to the effect that the parking lots are filled with rec center users, it would seem to infer that you are claiming that all lots are always filled. Otherwise, why wouldn't a permit system work? If activities planned for a rec center would indicate that every parking slot is going to be filled on a a particular day, no permit would be issued for that particular lot.

The only times I have seen any rec center parking lot filled to capacity is when there is a major activity like a craft fair or art show. All other times there are always sufficient parking spots to handle the 15-25 or so that would be needed for a club going on a bus trip. If the conditions of the permit required car pooling you could even cut that down to 10-12 parking slots. Likewise, except for special events, you can shoot a canon in some of the remote sections of the large lots by the squares with no worry of hitting a car. Certainly the recreation department could find sufficient parking spots to help support the Villages clubs that may want to go on a bus trip if they really wanted to be an advocate for our best interest.

The reason that the seating at the squares is an irrelevant topic is that, unlike seat hogs who just take over a group of seats against stated policy, those who go on bus trips would be parking in spaces that have been determined by the Recreation department to be spare (otherwise, no permit would have been issued for that particular rec center.) They would not just be bullying their way into a parking lot as you inferred.

[JoMar]

4 more to 100.....we can do it

[blueash]

Well, I may have to retract my concern. Legal expert needed. Sumter County regulation seems to prohibit any parking on county roads in the unincorporated areas. Now, I don't know if our side streets are "county roads" but the county does the road work to maintain them. Or are county roads only those with CR in the name such as CR466? If all non villa residential streets are regulated county roads then it would seem no one can park in the street. Is that possibly what it means?

https://www.municode.com/library/fl/sumter_county/codes/code_of_ordinances?searchRequest=%7B%22searchText% 22:%22%5C%22county%20road%5C%22%20parking%22,%22pa geNum%22:1,%22resultsPerPage%22:25,%22booleanSearc h%22:false,%22stemming%22:true,%22fuzzy%22:false,% 22synonym%22:false,%22contentTypes%22:%5B%22CODES% 22%5D,%22productIds%22:%5B%5D%7D&nodeId=COCO_CH17MOVETR_ARTIISTSTPA_DIV1SUCOPAOR_S0-29STSTPA

Sec. 0-29. - Stopping, standing or parking.
(a) Within the unincorporated areas of Sumter County, Florida, except when necessary to avoid conflict with other traffic, or in compliance with law or other directions of the sheriff or his deputy or official traffic-control device, no person shall:

(1) Stop, stand or park a vehicle

h. In or on any county road or street right-of-way in the unincorporated area of Sumter County.

[redwitch]

4 more to 100.....we can do it

But do we want to?

[Bonny]

But do we want to?
Yes we do ! Woo Hoo 100 !!:pepper2:

[tomwed]

The wheels on the bus go round and round............................

[CFrance]

The wheels on the bus go round and round............................
Aparently not anymore!:swear:

[graciegirl]

Aparently not anymore!:swear:


Are you a bus tripper, C?????

[CFrance]

Are you a bus tripper, C?????
I like our once-a-year bus trip to the Pirates spring training game with the Three Rivers Club. It's more than just the game, and part of the fun is the bus trip itself.

I've contemplated going on some of the Juliets trips, esp. the one over to Cocoa Beach, but so far the timing hasn't been right.

And three of us went to a dog show last December in Orlando with a dog group.

[l2ridehd]

If you blow off the concept of a permit system with a response to the effect that the parking lots are filled with rec center users, it would seem to infer that you are claiming that all lots are always filled. Otherwise, why wouldn't a permit system work? If activities planned for a rec center would indicate that every parking slot is going to be filled on a a particular day, no permit would be issued for that particular lot.

The only times I have seen any rec center parking lot filled to capacity is when there is a major activity like a craft fair or art show. All other times there are always sufficient parking spots to handle the 15-25 or so that would be needed for a club going on a bus trip. If the conditions of the permit required car pooling you could even cut that down to 10-12 parking slots. Likewise, except for special events, you can shoot a canon in some of the remote sections of the large lots by the squares with no worry of hitting a car. Certainly the recreation department could find sufficient parking spots to help support the Villages clubs that may want to go on a bus trip if they really wanted to be an advocate for our best interest.

The reason that the seating at the squares is an irrelevant topic is that, unlike seat hogs who just take over a group of seats against stated policy, those who go on bus trips would be parking in spaces that have been determined by the Recreation department to be spare (otherwise, no permit would have been issued for that particular rec center.) They would not just be bullying their way into a parking lot as you inferred.

There is no way we can discuss this issue. You will not stick to what I say, but what you think I say. "blow off the concept of a permit system" "bullying their way into a parking lot as you inferred" In no post did I ever state either thing. Good luck Done.

[redwitch]

I can see the no bus policy for non-chartered events, such as the casino buses. But, I totally disagree with no buses for events where a Villages club has chartered a bus. To me, those buses are as much of an event as the art shows, train show, etc. These events cause other clubs to cancel meetings. Have never heard anyone complain. Taking a bus off campus with your club is, to me, just another club event and should be treated accordingly with appropriate and reasonable accommodations.

That exceptions to the no bus policy for Villages buses doesn't sit right in my mind. In fact, it downright smells. I'm not talking about the airport shuttles but the new ones, especially the one for transportation for cruises. It's okay for these buses and patrons to take up parking spaces near the squares for days on end but not for a club? Sorry, it has a fishy smell to me.

[CFrance]

I can see the no bus policy for non-chartered events, such as the casino buses. But, I totally disagree with no buses for events where a Villages club has chartered a bus. To me, those buses are as much of an event as the art shows, train show, etc. These events cause other clubs to cancel meetings. Have never heard anyone complain. Taking a bus off campus with your club is, to me, just another club event and should be treated accordingly with appropriate and reasonable accommodations.

That exceptions to the no bus policy for Villages buses doesn't sit right in my mind. In fact, it downright smells. I'm not talking about the airport shuttles but the new ones, especially the one for transportation for cruises. It's okay for these buses and patrons to take up parking spaces near the squares for days on end but not for a club? Sorry, it has a fishy smell to me.
Once again, right on, especially the part about club events needing buses. You should write that to Ms. Tutt. In fact, all of us who feel that way should.

[skip0358]

I can see the no bus policy for non-chartered events, such as the casino buses. But, I totally disagree with no buses for events where a Villages club has chartered a bus. To me, those buses are as much of an event as the art shows, train show, etc. These events cause other clubs to cancel meetings. Have never heard anyone complain. Taking a bus off campus with your club is, to me, just another club event and should be treated accordingly with appropriate and reasonable accommodations.

That exceptions to the no bus policy for Villages buses doesn't sit right in my mind. In fact, it downright smells. I'm not talking about the airport shuttles but the new ones, especially the one for transportation for cruises. It's okay for these buses and patrons to take up parking spaces near the squares for days on end but not for a club? Sorry, it has a fishy smell to me.

Thank you couldn't agree more. For those that don't belong to a CLUB that does these type of trips it's no big deal. Expressed my concerns to both DPM & CPM not that I got anywhere. :bigbow:

[redwitch]

BTW, I have never taken a bus excursion and probably never will but fair is fair an this policy just ain't fair.

[NJblue]

BTW, I have never taken a bus excursion and probably never will but fair is fair an this policy just ain't fair.

I am in the same situation - never have taken a bus trip from TV. However, I know neighbors who are active members of groups who do take trips. They are also responsible for coordinating the bus pick-ups. I applaud them for volunteering their time to make TV a better place to live and feel their frustration when the CDD, whose charter would indicate that it should be assisting such groups in these activities, is actually making life more difficult for them.

[tomwed]

I am in the same situation - never have taken a bus trip from TV. However, I know neighbors who are active members of groups who do take trips. They are also responsible for coordinating the bus pick-ups. I applaud them for volunteering their time to make TV a better place to live and feel their frustration when the CDD, whose charter would indicate that it should be assisting such groups in these activities, is actually making life more difficult for them.
I only have a smart car but if someone needs a lift to a group bus and they live near Brownwood, I'll help out too.

[NJblue]

There is no way we can discuss this issue. You will not stick to what I say, but what you think I say. "blow off the concept of a permit system" "bullying their way into a parking lot as you inferred" In no post did I ever state either thing. Good luck Done.

It's called paraphrasing for succinctness. Is there really that much difference between:

"select group of people wanting what they want for themselves and disregard the use of common parking lots for others"

and "bullying their way into a parking lot" ?

[kstew43]

No it was stolen. They found it trashed in an area of the Ocala Forest a few weeks later. It went for a lot of joy rides.

thats a shame.......whatever is happening to this world we live in...

[Bonny]

thats a shame.......whatever is happening to this world we live in...
Definitely wasn't one totally worth stealing, but police said probably after a few days, who ever did it may have assumed we were gone and they could have a good few days with it.

[ukbill70]

As I understand it, the problems are caused by the cars left behind in the parking lots. One solution might be for the bus/travel agencies to purchase parking spaces from the churches that have parking lots that virtually sit empty Monday through Saturday. Good for the church. Good for the bus/travel agencies. It could be a great budget enhancer for some of the smaller churches located just off property.
What an excellent idea Joyce, I hope some church official reads your post and negotiates with a bus company to their mutual advantage.

[rubicon]

I can’t help but notice that the enforcement of this rule is only targeting “outside” bus companies. The Villages Transpiration, operating out of Lake Sumter Landing, attracts large numbers of customer’s who park in the lots surrounding the hub for sometimes weeks at a time. I also see from their website that they have begun to offer special trips to concerts, shopping and even large buses to the cruise ports. This does seem like a double standard in my eyes and to me, looks like The Villages trying to bully out the competition from other bus companies. Will The Villages transportation be subject to the same kind of restrictions? Or will their customer’s be allowed to continue to fill the lots in front of Cody’s and Barnes and Noble? With the coming addition of the new restaurant in the old TGIF location as well as the continued retail expansions expected to occupy current vacant spaces, what is the plan to accommodate that increase in parking needs?

We are members of the Villages Parrotheads and have enjoyed quite a few of the day trips offered by the group. The buses hold approx. 48 passengers, which translates to about 24 cars parked at the furthest back portion of the Barnes and Noble parking lot for approx. 12 hours. I have never seen a time when the spaces in that lot were so limited that customers of other venues had to seek out alternative places to park. The lot is so empty on any given day that hundreds of bicyclists met up there almost every morning because of the wide open spaces.

As the Villages continues to grow and expand, Lifestyle groups will do the same. I believe that enforcing these restrictions on “non” village transportation companies is wrong and sends the wrong message to anyone trying to plan outings and events for the members of their groups to enjoy.

By God I think he has it.

[Jima64]

That would be one heck of a bus if it held 100 people. Try 44 to 50 average.

[skip0358]

That would be one heck of a bus if it held 100 people. Try 44 to 50 average.

Big bus holds 56 passengers max.

[twoplanekid]

I was pleased to read that Amenity Authority Committee member Don Deakin from District 4 asked Janet Tutt about the decision to enforce a ban on buses in The Villages.
Both he and I have suggested “Maybe we should try to reach a compromise”.

Minutes of the meeting should be posted on the districtgov.org web site with the agenda for the next meeting.

[janmcn]

There is a short article in the on-line news about today's meeting where Janet Tutt said "the Villages Transportation is a leaseholder and pays taxes to maintain the roads". Therefore they are the only ones allowed to use the facilities.

[bagboy]

There is a short article in the on-line news about today's meeting where Janet Tutt said "the Villages Transportation is a leaseholder and pays taxes to maintain the roads". Therefore they are the only ones allowed to use the facilities.

Pretty much answers the original question.

[njbchbum]

There is a short article in the on-line news about today's meeting where Janet Tutt said "the Villages Transportation is a leaseholder and pays taxes to maintain the roads". Therefore they are the only ones allowed to use the facilities.

Isn't that the strangest response? Aren't the roads public roads? Don't some of everyone's taxes go toward paying to maintain the roads? Why can't a villager or a group of villagers park their car[s] wherever they want to for however long they want to park wherever?

[Big O]

Isn't that the strangest response? Aren't the roads public roads? Don't some of everyone's taxes go toward paying to maintain the roads? Why can't a villager or a group of villagers park their car[s] wherever they want to for however long they want to park wherever?

I don't think the discussion is regarding public roads but the parking areas behind the retail shops. From experience I can tell you my wife and I could hardly find a parking space behind Two Jays around 8:00 A.M. on the day of the chili cook off in February. There were two busses and numerous collateral cars getting ready for some day trip. There was nobody in Two Jays and the parking lot was a real mess when people started showing up for the cook-off.

[CFrance]

There is a short article in the on-line news about today's meeting where Janet Tutt said "the Villages Transportation is a leaseholder and pays taxes to maintain the roads". Therefore they are the only ones allowed to use the facilities.
Buses have been doing this for YEARS. Why now? The kids are getting greedy.

[njbchbum]

I don't think the discussion is regarding public roads but the parking areas behind the retail shops. snipped

Now parking areas make sense. Thanks! Silly me for taking Ms. Tutt literally!

[Bogie Shooter]

Buses have been doing this for YEARS. Why now? The kids are getting greedy.

Greedy? How do you come up with that?

[CFrance]

Greedy? How do you come up with that?
Because of what Janet Tutt said about being a leaseholder and contributing to maintaining the roads (which I don't get that). And because of what I just said--Busses have been allowed to pick up groups in TV parking lots for years.

[Bonny]

Because of what Janet Tutt said about being a leaseholder and contributing to maintaining the roads (which I don't get that). And because of what I just said--Busses have been allowed to pick up groups in TV parking lots for years.
I would really doubt that this has anything to do with the "kids" being greedy. These kids have been very involved in the running of the Villages for many years.

[JoMar]

Because of what Janet Tutt said about being a leaseholder and contributing to maintaining the roads (which I don't get that). And because of what I just said--Busses have been allowed to pick up groups in TV parking lots for years.

There was at time when there were only 10,000 people here....stuff does change. Somewhere in this thread someone said that if the bus companies want the business they will figure out how to serve their clients.....they are the ones making the money, so since they have a business and work for a profit they must be greedy too.

[CFrance]

The Villages developer has always touted the many clubs and extra-curricular activities available to people who buy here. These bus trips of the villages clubs have been going on ever since time and certainly long since there were only 10,000 people here. It's not a case of outside bus companies being greedy. It's a case of convenience for the club members.

All of a sudden they are not allowed, and the reason given by Ms. Tutt is they don't pay to help maintain the roads, whatever that means, or hold a lease. To me that means the bottom line is $. Why did Gary Morse let it go on for so long?

[looneycat]

there's no pleasing some people, how dare they limit buses? how sorely do you complain when you can't find parking? so which is it? If you complain about one you get the other so make up your minds. I doubt you all could pick one without bitching and moaning about the other! sheesh! 13 pages of this? really?

[CFrance]

there's no pleasing some people, how dare they limit buses? how sorely do you complain when you can't find parking? so which is it? If you complain about one you get the other so make up your minds. I doubt you all could pick one without bitching and moaning about the other! sheesh! 13 pages of this? really?
We've never had a problem finding parking. The buses load & unload in the most remote parts of the lots. I am not one of the constant complainers about TV, but I stand by my comments on this one.

[DonH57]

I thought it to be really confusing about the bus issue because the only bus trips I've taken were with groups which held their meetings in the rec centers and are resident groups. We have never taken up a lot of parking and were always picked up in a corner of a lot and never overnight.

[looneycat]

We've never had a problem finding parking. The buses load & unload in the most remote parts of the lots. I am not one of the constant complainers about TV, but I stand by my comments on this one.

the population here has at least doubled in the last 10 years as has the need for car/cart parking, no part of any parking lot is still remote, please point out the remote parts of the colony plaza parking area....it always seems full.....not so 7 or 8 years ago....meanwhile the number of bus trips has increased each trip requiring parking. this is an observation, not a complaint, it's just the way it is. I guess growing up in nyc, where you might have to walk a few blocks after you park was the norm, makes this a real non-issue for me...you will be in a vehicle to get to the bus no matter where it picks you up, what exactly is the problem? driving 2 more minutes ? you've got to be kidding me!

[twoplanekid]

I can’t believe that space can’t be located in a city of over 100,000 to accommodate Villagers parking in their own city and not having to travel to another community to park.

As the Village population continues to increase, we may see parking meters or a rule limiting us to only one car or golf cart. Now, this is only a rumor!:icon_wink:

[Teachers Pet]

the population here has at least doubled in the last 10 years as has the need for car/cart parking, no part of any parking lot is still remote, please point out the remote parts of the colony plaza parking area....it always seems full.....not so 7 or 8 years ago....meanwhile the number of bus trips has increased each trip requiring parking. this is an observation, not a complaint, it's just the way it is. I guess growing up in nyc, where you might have to walk a few blocks after you park was the norm, makes this a real non-issue for me...you will be in a vehicle to get to the bus no matter where it picks you up, what exactly is the problem? driving 2 more minutes ? you've got to be kidding me!

For some people going to an external location to park, meet a bus, and leave your vehicle there - could be a bit of scary situation. Look at the population around us. I have to agree with CFrance on this topic.

[looneycat]

For some people going to an external location to park, meet a bus, and leave your vehicle there - could be a bit of scary situation. Look at the population around us. I have to agree with CFrance on this topic.

the buses already use walmart's lot, you know, where that 'population around us' shops...gee, when I put it that way it sounds kind of snobbish..

[dbussone]

the buses already use walmart's lot, you know, where that 'population around us' shops...gee, when I put it that way it sounds kind of snobbish..


I wouldn't leave a trash can at Walmart overnight, much less a vehicle.

[janmcn]

the buses already use walmart's lot, you know, where that 'population around us' shops...gee, when I put it that way it sounds kind of snobbish..

Why should Wal-Mart tie up any part of their parking lot for Villagers' bus trips, when The Villages can't accommodate Villagers' bus trips?

[Villagesperson]

I cannot be sure, but has this not always been the rule, but is now going to be enforced because of the population explosion and, from what I hear, an increase in complaints.

I don't think it was ever "allowed".

As more people come pushing the envelope a bit over time, I am sure there will be more issues like this.

Just guessing

[skip0358]

the population here has at least doubled in the last 10 years as has the need for car/cart parking, no part of any parking lot is still remote, please point out the remote parts of the colony plaza parking area....it always seems full.....not so 7 or 8 years ago....meanwhile the number of bus trips has increased each trip requiring parking. this is an observation, not a complaint, it's just the way it is. I guess growing up in nyc, where you might have to walk a few blocks after you park was the norm, makes this a real non-issue for me...you will be in a vehicle to get to the bus no matter where it picks you up, what exactly is the problem? driving 2 more minutes ? you've got to be kidding me!

The problem is the buses are no longer allowed in to pickup residents for day trips. If the people going on bus trips at least ours did doubled up in the parking spaces they didn't take up a whole lot of space. The buses that operate in TV don't have the same price, size or number of buses. So you can't contract with them to do your trips period. You can't convince me there isn't some place that could be used period. And how would anyone know where the people from the parked vehicles are, shopping, at a movie, eating diner, listening to the music in the square etc. The buses didn't park in the square, the people who went on the trips didn't park in the squares, they parked on the outskirt of the parking lots around the squares or in a corner of a rec center parking lot. NEVER did I see one use the Colony Plaza parking lot.

[CFrance]

The problem is the buses are no longer allowed in to pickup residents for day trips. If the people going on bus trips at least ours did doubled up in the parking spaces they didn't take up a whole lot of space. The buses that operate in TV don't have the same price, size or number of buses. So you can't contract with them to do your trips period. You can't convince me there isn't some place that could be used period. And how would anyone know where the people from the parked vehicles are, shopping, at a movie, eating diner, listening to the music in the square etc. The buses didn't park in the square, the people who went on the trips didn't park in the squares, they parked on the outskirt of the parking lots around the squares or in a corner of a rec center parking lot. NEVER did I see one use the Colony Plaza parking lot.
And that is why I think Ms. Tutts' statement that it's causing a parking problem is very suspect.

[looneycat]

...

[looneycat]

The problem is the buses are no longer allowed in to pickup residents for day trips. If the people going on bus trips at least ours did doubled up in the parking spaces they didn't take up a whole lot of space. The buses that operate in TV don't have the same price, size or number of buses. So you can't contract with them to do your trips period. You can't convince me there isn't some place that could be used period. And how would anyone know where the people from the parked vehicles are, shopping, at a movie, eating diner, listening to the music in the square etc. The buses didn't park in the square, the people who went on the trips didn't park in the squares, they parked on the outskirt of the parking lots around the squares or in a corner of a rec center parking lot. NEVER did I see one use the Colony Plaza parking lot.

I have seen a bus trip leave from colony. so what is the pricing on the 'inhouse' company? how much more are they? what size buses do they run, they really don't have enough buses? period. As far as I can see they have everything from minivans to 56 passenger motor coaches so why exactly can't I contract them period? have you tried?

[looneycat]

And that is why I think Ms. Tutts' statement that it's causing a parking problem is very suspect.

of course it is...they are just protecting their vendors, I'd want that if I paid so much to do business here

[skip0358]

I have seen a bus trip leave from colony. so what is the pricing on the 'inhouse' company? how much more are they? what size buses do they run, they really don't have enough buses? period. As far as I can see they have everything from minivans to 56 passenger motor coaches so why exactly can't I contract them period? have you tried?

They had 1 56 passenger bus.
Compared pricing item for item for a trip we had booked $125.00 more then ours. So yea it comes down to money. Beside even IF they had enough buses, even IF we booked thru them the same amount of vehicles would be parked somewhere in TV area period. So it's not about the parking it's about money staying in house period.

[CFrance]

They had 1 56 passenger bus.
Compared pricing item for item for a trip we had booked $125.00 more then ours. So yea it comes down to money. Beside even IF they had enough buses, even IF we booked thru them the same amount of vehicles would be parked somewhere in TV area period. So it's not about the parking it's about money staying in house period.
I agree with this. If Villages Van had enough vehicles of the right size and comfort level to accommodate all the club trips, it would be one thing--still greedy because more expensive, but I could see their trying to protect their vendors. However, they cannot accommodate everyone.

Our Three Rivers spring training trip to Bradenton leaves (up till now) from Brownwood because in the past it added a half hour each way to the trip to leave from Sumter. Brownwood is never crowded. Can't imagine where else we could leave from down here. Maybe Spars.

I hope the sales agents, when pointing out all the clubs in TV, tell people, By the way, you can only be a member of a TV club if you live in TV. But you can't leave on a trip with them from where you live.

[looneycat]

They had 1 56 passenger bus.
Compared pricing item for item for a trip we had booked $125.00 more then ours. So yea it comes down to money. Beside even IF they had enough buses, even IF we booked thru them the same amount of vehicles would be parked somewhere in TV area period. So it's not about the parking it's about money staying in house period.

The buses that operate in TV don't have the same price, size or number of buses.The buses that operate in TV don't have the same price, size or number of buses.So you can't contract with them to do your trips period. You can't convince me there isn't some place that could be used period.

So you can contract with them to do your trips on the same size bus exclamation point. And 2 bucks more per person stopped you, that's more accurate then your earlier claim.

[CFrance]

So you can contract with them to do your trips on the same size bus exclamation point. And 2 bucks more per person stopped you, that's more accurate then your earlier claim.
You're missing his point. They don't have enough busses to accommodate a large group. Even if they did, cars would be parked in the parking lot during the trip anyway. So Ms. Tutt's giving as one of the reasons the fact that there is a parking problem is specious.

[janmcn]

You're missing his point. They don't have enough busses to accommodate a large group. Even if they did, cars would be parked in the parking lot during the trip anyway. So Ms. Tutt's giving as one of the reasons the fact that there is a parking problem is specious.

Ms Tutt's other statement about this vendor paying to maintain the roads in The Villages is equally specious. The Villages Transportation is an Orlando-based company who are leaseholders. What special taxes do an Orlando-based renter pay that would maintain The Villages roads?

In a letter to the editor, it was stated that The Villages is no longer allowing the Amtrak bus to pick up passengers in TV. This is a free bus that transports passengers from TV to the nearest train station.

[xNYer]

Why should Wal-Mart tie up any part of their parking lot for Villagers' bus trips, when The Villages can't accommodate Villagers' bus trips?

Why should anyplace outside The Viilages allow their parking to be occupied, particularly commercial establishments which have no reason to do so?

Had Janet Tutt canvassed Villagers to see what we would prefer or offer any options?

Aren't the rec centers totally supported by amenity fees.

We are talking about clubs which organize trips for Villagers.

[maddie101]

Aren't the rec centers totally supported by amenity fees.

We are talking about clubs which organize trips for Villagers.

Those were almost my exact thoughts and words

[BETHPAGE BLACK]

One day I came out of Banes & Noble walked to my car which was blocked in by a huge bus unloading passengers returning from a cruise. My car (and others) was blocked, people pouring out of the bus then all their luggage had to be unloaded and claimed. I had a doctors appt and could not get out of my parking spot. The driver was uncooperative and after all the luggage was claimed, the driver then went up and down the aisles with a plastic bag picking up garbage. There as nothing we could do

[redwitch]

One day I came out of Banes & Noble walked to my car which was blocked in by a huge bus unloading passengers returning from a cruise. My car (and others) was blocked, people pouring out of the bus then all their luggage had to be unloaded and claimed. I had a doctors appt and could not get out of my parking spot. The driver was uncooperative and after all the luggage was claimed, the driver then went up and down the aisles with a plastic bag picking up garbage. There as nothing we could do

But this bus probably a Villages bus. And I can see banning cruise buses. Those would be in direct competition with something offered by a vendor., non-Villagers are frequently on these buses and cars would be parked for days in the lots. In this instance, allowing only a vendor paying to use parking lot facilities makes sense.

What I cannot see is banning club charters for day trips. Even in high season, there are usually spaces available in the far reaches of the rec center lots. This is stopping Villagers from enjoying activities with their clubs. Seems to me this is part of the lifestyle of TV and is now being taken away.

[graciegirl]

But this bus probably a Villages bus. And I can see banning cruise buses. Those would be in direct competition with something offered by a vendor., non-Villagers are frequently on these buses and cars would be parked for days in the lots. In this instance, allowing only a vendor paying to use parking lot facilities makes sense.

What I cannot see is banning club charters for day trips. Even in high season, there are usually spaces available in the far reaches of the rec center lots. This is stopping Villagers from enjoying activities with their clubs. Seems to me this is part of the lifestyle of TV and is now being taken away.



I do not want a daily pick up to the gambling boats patrons parked where me and Helene go to paint by number in one of OUR rec centers. I don't want to be aggravated by an outside business who is taking advantage of using our parking for their profit.

Just like the wall built in the old area, this probably is something put in place to protect us legally from something that could get out of hand.

You hide and watch.

[CFrance]

And I say you are wrong Mary Jane.

I do not want a daily pick up to the gambling boats patrons parked where me and Helene go to paint by number in one of OUR rec centers. I don't want to be aggravated by an outside business who is taking advantage of using our parking for their profit.

Just like the wall built in the old area, this probably is something put in place to protect us legally from something that could get out of hand.

You hide and watch.
Have you been aggravated by buses at one of our rec centers picking up Villagers for a club trip? I haven't. Why do you think they're going to gambling boats only? What do gambling boats even have to do with it if it is a club-sponsored trip?

Picking up club members for trips has been going on for years with no adverse effects. You can look at it as an outside company making a profit, or you can look at it as a TV-sponsored club providing additional recreation for its members. Without it TV becomes a little less fun than previously advertised. And Dee is not wrong; I am not wrong; you are not wrong. Those are our opinions, which happen to differ.

[twoplanekid]

Have you been aggravated by buses at one of our rec centers picking up Villagers for a club trip? I haven't. Why do you think they're going to gambling boats only? What do gambling boats even have to do with it if it is a club-sponsored trip?

Picking up club members for trips has been going on for years with no adverse effects. You can look at it as an outside company making a profit, or you can look at it as a TV-sponsored club providing additional recreation for its members. Without it TV becomes a little less fun than previously advertised. And Dee is not wrong; I am not wrong; you are not wrong. Those are our opinions, which happen to differ.

I agree with the above comments which are fair and to the point.

[graciegirl]

But this bus probably a Villages bus. And I can see banning cruise buses. Those would be in direct competition with something offered by a vendor., non-Villagers are frequently on these buses and cars would be parked for days in the lots. In this instance, allowing only a vendor paying to use parking lot facilities makes sense.

What I cannot see is banning club charters for day trips. Even in high season, there are usually spaces available in the far reaches of the rec center lots. This is stopping Villagers from enjoying activities with their clubs. Seems to me this is part of the lifestyle of TV and is now being taken away.

When you establish a precedent that is a legal issue. See here;
Precedent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedent)

[tomwed]

The pick-up spot SHOULD be on the outskirts of square so passengers have the option to buy food and drinks for the trip at square establishments [ie Dunkin Donuts, Panarras, Winn Dixie] and again buy a meal they return.

Don't those establishments have any input? Maybe they could get involved. If I was them I would have a little "to go" quickie bus meal package.

Maybe that's the solution. A country club would offer the outskirts of their parking lot in return for 40 prepackaged "to go" travel snacks.

[graciegirl]

Why should we as a city give over free space to a business who is for profit? It isn't a good precedent. There are a lot of powerful businesses that in other areas besides buses for gambling that could do this. They could advertise on Television, all those in the Belleview Leesburg, Wildwood area can park at the Colony rec center, we will pick you up.

It could happen and not just for gambling.

I think this new rule is being established so it won't happen.

Just lookee here;

bus trip to casino - Bing (http://www.bing.com/search?q=bus+trip+to+casino&qs=n&form=QBLH&pq=bus+trip+to+casino&sc=8-18&sp=-1&sk=&cvid=49657879e39e42bab24a2b251ab0d162)

[TrudyM]

In most of the towns I have lived in before the clubs arrange to use a church parking lot with the church. The small donation to the church helps them and it makes use of an otherwise unused parking lot on weekdays.

[redwitch]

Why should we as a city give over free space to a business who is for profit? It isn't a good precedent. There are a lot of powerful businesses that in other areas besides buses for gambling that could do this. They could advertise on Television, all those in the Belleview Leesburg, Wildwood area can park at the Colony rec center, we will pick you up.

It could happen and not just for gambling.

I think this new rule is being established so it won't happen.

Gracie, to me, you're comparing oranges and lemons. The one thing a company offering a ride to the general populance and one being chartered to take a group of Villagers is that they both use buses. A bus taking anyone could not go on private property without permission. Therefore, gambling and cruise destination buses could easily be prohibited. Denying club members day trips just doesn't sit right to me.

If precedence were an issue here, the clubs would win -- buses have been picking up folks in the rec centers at least as long as I have lived here. We're talking privately chartered buses where residents of the Villages take one large vehicle as a group rather than piling into multiple vehicles and trying to meet up at the destination. Sorry, Ms. Tutt, et al., are wrong on this one, just like they were on building the wall.

[graciegirl]

Gracie, to me, you're comparing oranges and lemons. The one thing a company offering a ride to the general populance and one being chartered to take a group of Villagers is that they both use buses. A bus taking anyone could not go on private property without permission. Therefore, gambling and cruise destination buses could easily be prohibited. Denying club members day trips just doesn't sit right to me.

If precedence were an issue here, the clubs would win -- buses have been picking up folks in the rec centers at least as long as I have lived here. We're talking privately chartered buses where residents of the Villages take one large vehicle as a group rather than piling into multiple vehicles and trying to meet up at the destination. Sorry, Ms. Tutt, et al., are wrong on this one, just like they were on building the wall.


I also supported having only OUR golf carts on the trails here. Thus I supported the wall, and that ended well too.

I think that the Morses have excellent legal advice and they also play their cards close to their vest.

What is keeping a large tour bus group or a tour guide from advertising....join The Villages on their ride to....such and so???

[graciegirl]

When you establish a precedent that is a legal issue. See here;
Precedent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedent)

////

[DougB]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[asianthree]

I was just wondering when there are honor flights for veterans where do they pick them up, and don't they go on buses how will this affect them. Or is it a car caravan?

[redwitch]

I also supported having only OUR golf carts on the trails here. Thus I supported the wall, and that ended well too.

I think that the Morses have excellent legal advice and they also play their cards close to their vest.

What is keeping a large tour bus group or a tour guide from advertising....join The Villages on their ride to....such and so???

Because it is a privately chartered bus. By contract, the operator cannot invite others to join in. This would be akin to you having a block party for neighbors only and someone then puts an ad in the paper inviting all Villagers to attend, but worse since the club could then sue the bus company.

As to things for profit in the rec centers, I'd say most of the instructors there consider what they are doing at least a job, if not a business. Very few volunteer. They get paid by participants. Ditto entertainers at club meetings such as DJs. Ditto Life-Long Learning Classes. Why would this be okay if making a profit is the issue for the private charters?

Don't know about you, but the building of the wall and the way it was done has left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouth, including mine. It would not have ended well had not Villagers protested and called in the media. Sorry, can't give the developer any credit on this one.

Do you remember the stink caused when it was announced that support groups meeting at rec centers would allow non-Villagers to attend? The Morses totally supported this one. So did I. Several here didn't. So far as I know, there has not been a single incident involving the non-Villagers. It was a kind, right thing to do gesture on the part of groups, the rec centers and the developer. To me, allowing charter buses to pick up Villages residents at rec centers is the right thing to do.

[redwitch]

:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

Well, what do you expect besides a good show when two Scorps go head to head? Enjoy the show. :popcorn: :) :boxing2:

[twoplanekid]

As elected district supervisors may have a say in this matter, I believe public opinion will come in to play helping to resolve this issue in a fair an equitable manner. It has long been Janet Tutt and the Board Supervisors’ goals to encourage more resident involvement at all steps in the governing process

[janmcn]

As elected district supervisors may have a say in this matter, I believe public opinion will come in to play helping to resolve this issue in a fair an equitable manner. It has long been Janet Tutt and the Board Supervisors’ goals to encourage more resident involvement at all steps in the governing process


And if it is not resolved, prospective buyers have the option of buying elsewhere if bus trips with friends are a priority for them.

[CFrance]

And if it is not resolved, prospective buyers have the option of buying elsewhere if bus trips with friends are a priority for them.
Yes, assuming the realtors and sales agents let them know about it. And of course, there's the good-old "If You Don't Like It, Move" for the rest of us.

[graciegirl]

As elected district supervisors may have a say in this matter, I believe public opinion will come in to play helping to resolve this issue in a fair an equitable manner. It has long been Janet Tutt and the Board Supervisors’ goals to encourage more resident involvement at all steps in the governing process

I don't look forward to or encourage this place run any differently than it is. There are a good many people who don't have any experience running things that want to run things.

And Redwitch, you are not completely right about "The Marchers" changing anything. The issue is, was and I hope always will be is that The Morses don't tell people what their goals are. They closed the wall when they were going into discussions with Fruitland Park about adding homes there. They didn't say that was WHY but it was closed just days before those negotiations began. It is my view that the developer did not want an EXISTING PRECEDENT to allow Fruitland Park to lobby for the same privilege of access with golf carts. I am all for that. We have enough golf carts with our own. Charity begins at home.

What I have learned in eight years is that The Morse clan aren't big at blowing their own horn, showing off with their mouths or telling what their plans are. That may not please some people, but it pleases me.

Some folks move here and in five minutes are trying to run things and change things.

Where is my rosary?

[Challenger]

In most of the towns I have lived in before the clubs arrange to use a church parking lot with the church. The small donation to the church helps them and it makes use of an otherwise unused parking lot on weekdays.

Sounds like a good idea to me. Probably doesn't work on weekends.

[twoplanekid]

I don't look forward to or encourage this place run any differently than it is. There are a good many people who don't have any experience running things that want to run things.

And Redwitch, you are not completely right about "The Marchers" changing anything. The issue is, was and I hope always will be is that The Morses don't tell people what their goals are. They closed the wall when they were going into discussions with Fruitland Park about adding homes there. They didn't say that was WHY but it was closed just days before those negotiations began. It is my view that the developer did not want an EXISTING PRECEDENT to allow Fruitland Park to lobby for the same privilege of access with golf carts. I am all for that. We have enough golf carts with our own. Charity begins at home.

What I have learned in eight years is that The Morse clan aren't big at blowing their own horn, showing off with their mouths or telling what their plans are. That may not please some people, but it pleases me.

Some folks move here and in five minutes are trying to run things and change things.

Where is my rosary?

Sorry, but you live in a democracy. That’s just the way it is in the United States of American and I am proud I served in the military to help preserve that freedom and our way of life.

[Jayhawk]

Sorry, but you live in a democracy. That’s just the way it is in the United States of American and I am proud I served in the military to help preserve that freedom and our way of life.

Yes, and one of the benefits of a democracy is running a private enterprise such as The Villages as the principals see fit. I'd say they have done a fantastic job so far.

[Big O]

Sorry, but you live in democracy. That’s just the way it is in the United States of American and I am proud I served in the military to help preserve that freedom and our way of life.

How in the hell does this have anything to do with living in a democracy? The Villages is a business and as such needs to protect it's interests. In this case it is protecting the businesses within it's boundaries. By the way, I served too, but I don't use that as a crutch for my arguments.

[skip0358]

It doesn't mater what bus company takes you outside the bubble. If TV had a bus company( and they don't) that had enough buses and of different sizes to handle the many bus trips by the various clubs in TV the same amount of parking spaces would be taken up as if an outside bus company came on to take them period. Since the TV bus can't handle the trips what choice is there ? Yea I know park somewhere else, that's not the answer nor are the churches because that only works on certain days period.
I've gathered by a good number of the negative posts that those people don't belong to a Club that does off property trips, or have never used the Amtrack bus that's no longer allowed or some of the tour operators that went to Georgia, New Orleans ,Biloxi etc. as they to are gone.

[JoMar]

Sorry, but you live in a democracy. That’s just the way it is in the United States of American and I am proud I served in the military to help preserve that freedom and our way of life.

Might not have been one of your better posts.....:)

[twoplanekid]

Please read the following as taken from the districtgov.org site ->

“Now that you are generally familiar with the District concept, let’s describe the election process and the Board of Supervisors who oversee the activities of the District. Initially the Board of Supervisors, consisting of five members, is elected based upon land ownership. The legislature, in creating Chapter 190, recognized that in order to maintain continuity of the facilities provided to the newly developing community, that the developer, who then owns the majority of the land should be granted the right to substantially complete the project as envisioned by the various land use and zoning approvals that were obtained as part of the development review process. However, the legislature also recognized that at the time prescribed by statute, control should transition to the residents. Therefore, at the election held in 2006, one supervisor was elected by a landowner vote (one vote per lot owned and/or one vote per acre owned). In addition, two supervisors were elected by "qualified electors" (registered voters) residing in CDD No. 4. From this point forward, all elections in District 4 will be qualified based elections. This election conversion format ensures that the residents ultimately control the level of service provided to the infrastructure facilities that the District maintains.”

By all means, let what the Developer controls (the 3 commercial Districts) under the rule of law control. As the citizens will eventually have sole control of District 1-11 and more, please encourage people to run for office and others to participate in the processes of government.

Yes, I am proud to have served and thankful others have also served! A democracy needs good people to serve and participate.

[graciegirl]

Might not have been one of your better posts.....:)

The last thing I would do is move to a place because I like it so much and then try to change it. Sometimes we throw the baby out with the bath water....and sometimes we make things better. But to change the basics of how this unusual place is run is probably risking that it would change to be like all other similar size cities that are run where politics causes a big mess and a lot of ineffective and wasteful spending. Just for starters.

[twoplanekid]

Many of my Ohio friends have suggested that I will not enjoy living full time in Florida because of the summer heat. I guess I will just have to get accustom to the heat.:)

Again, I never said a thing about changing anything. But, laws are laws and rules are rules. Still, enjoy life and live it to the fullest. I am going to have a fun time in The Villages.

[Bonny]

Sorry, but you live in a democracy. That’s just the way it is in the United States of American and I am proud I served in the military to help preserve that freedom and our way of life.
Actually in the Villages, we don't live in a democracy. The Morses' own it and can do as they please, whether we like it or not. They don't have to discuss or get approval from any of the Villagers.

[Bonny]

The last thing I would do is move to a place because I like it so much and then try to change it. Sometimes we throw the baby out with the bath water....and sometimes we make things better. But to change the basics of how this unusual place is run is probably risking that it would change to be like all other similar size cities that are run where politics causes a big mess and a lot of ineffective and wasteful spending. Just for starters.
We have been here 15 years this month. I have no problem with anything that has been done in the Villages. I think they do an awesome job of running things here. Of course, maybe because we are from Michigan. LOL :icon_wink:

[redwitch]

I totally agree that TV is run beautifully. There is very little I want to see changed but I am concerned when things we have always had and very much considered part of our lifestyle are abruptly taken away. The charter buses are a prime example of that.

[Hancle704]

Maybe the charter companies could consider asking several of the area churches if they would allow parking for day trips as long as it did not interfere with weekend Services. The Village Hospital apparently worked out an arrangement with St Timothy's to allow employee parking during the week and had shuttle buses transport employees to and from the Church parking lot and hospital until the hospital built an employee lot across the east side of Hwy 27/441. The Church may have been reimbursed for wear and added liability. Seems like Fr. Ed was agreeable to this arrangement with the hospital.

[chuckinca]

I totally agree that TV is run beautifully. There is very little I want to see changed but I am concerned when things we have always had and very much considered part of our lifestyle are abruptly taken away. The charter buses are a prime example of that.


As is golf cart access from Stonecrest and Spruce Creek South via the Ho Chi Minh Trail and the Paradise connection just so the developer could lie about cart access from other communities to the Fruitland Park Town council.

So now we drive our cars and to the public facilities and take up twice as much parking as a cart.

.

[graciegirl]

As is golf cart access from Stonecrest and Spruce Creek South via the Ho Chi Minh Trail and the Paradise connection just so the developer could lie about cart access from other communities to the Fruitland Park Town council.
So now we drive our cars and to the public facilities and take up twice as much parking as a cart.

.

There was NO LIE when they began negotiation....That is the reason the wall was abruptly closed...and then a few weeks later there was a pass installed that used our Villages access card to open it.

So a new precedent was set. NOW, if you want to drive your golf cart in The Villages, you have to live in The Villages.

We really didn't need four thousand more golf carts on our trails that didn't belong to villagers.

I think they are doing the same about the tour buses. They are establishing a new precedent for some good reason other than competition. They sold off the Village transporation system and no longer run it.

[Villager Joyce]

Maybe the charter companies could consider asking several of the area churches if they would allow parking for day trips as long as it did not interfere with weekend Services. The Village Hospital apparently worked out an arrangement with St Timothy's to allow employee parking during the week and had shuttle buses transport employees to and from the Church parking lot and hospital until the hospital built an employee lot across the east side of Hwy 27/441. The Church may have been reimbursed for wear and added liability. Seems like Fr. Ed was agreeable to this arrangement with the hospital.

I suggested this at Post 10. I'm glad to see it come up again. I worked for a non-profit located near a hot spot for 5-Ks, art festivals, etc. we "sold" parking spaces. Considering the costs (nothing), it was a nice little fund raiser. A few employees volunteered, rotating every couple hours. The vendor would pay the church, not the club members.

[looneycat]

As is golf cart access from Stonecrest and Spruce Creek South via the Ho Chi Minh Trail and the Paradise connection just so the developer could lie about cart access from other communities to the Fruitland Park Town council.

So now we drive our cars and to the public facilities and take up twice as much parking as a cart.

.

we should have just put a toll booth there so you could help pay for the trail upkeep. :police:

[Villager Joyce]

we should have just put a toll booth there so you could help pay for the trail upkeep. :police:

THAT is the best idea of the day when It comes to the subject of Stonecrest.

[golfing eagles]

Please forgive a newbie question----What "wall"?

[Bogie Shooter]

And if it is not resolved, prospective buyers have the option of buying elsewhere if bus trips with friends are a priority for them.

Do you really think that would be a high priority?

[Bogie Shooter]

Please forgive a newbie question----What "wall"?

You don't really want to know!
Well OK, if you must.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/gary-lester-my-new-hero-refuses-discuss-villages-access-stonecresters-116609/

[chuckinca]

There was NO LIE when they began negotiation....That is the reason the wall was abruptly closed...and then a few weeks later there was a pass installed that used our Villages access card to open it.

So a new precedent was set. NOW, if you want to drive your golf cart in The Villages, you have to live in The Villages.

We really didn't need four thousand more golf carts on our trails that didn't belong to villagers.

I think they are doing the same about the tour buses. They are establishing a new precedent for some good reason other than competition. They sold off the Village transporation system and no longer run it.



So instead of 4,000 more carts you get 4,000 more cars and no tour bus parking - HAPPY NOW!

Before the closure of the Paradise access that had been used for many years with the approval of the Lady Lake Town Council, there were probably 100 or so carts a day from Stonecrest mainly going to Spanish Springs on the public roads; maybe a few went further and used the precious multi modal paths south of 466, aka Lower Eqypt.


.

[chuckinca]

You don't really want to know!
Well OK, if you must.
https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/gary-lester-my-new-hero-refuses-discuss-villages-access-stonecresters-116609/


That's about the new gate that was installed after the removal of the WALL the developer installed on a Saturday night so nobody could leave or enter the V(r)illages from Paradise Road north of Boone CT.

"Mr Morse take down this wall" Graffiti by villagers who can't get out or in - pic is taken from inside TV:


.

[Bogie Shooter]

Let is rest..............................

[janmcn]

And if it is not resolved, prospective buyers have the option of buying elsewhere if bus trips with friends are a priority for them.

Do you really think that would be a high priority?

It could be a priority for people who live here and no longer drive or own a car and use these bus trips as a way to socialize and visit different places. Also people who formerly used the free Amtrak bus could be effected when they want to visit friends or family.

[graciegirl]

That's about the new gate that was installed after the removal of the WALL the developer installed on a Saturday night so nobody could leave or enter the V(r)illages from Paradise Road north of Boone CT.

"Mr Morse take down this wall" Graffiti by villagers who can't get out or in - pic is taken from inside TV:


.


Chuck, Have you decided to move from Stonecrest to The Villages? We would enjoy having you here with us.

[dbussone]

So instead of 4,000 more carts you get 4,000 more cars and no tour bus parking - HAPPY NOW!



Before the closure of the Paradise access that had been used for many years with the approval of the Lady Lake Town Council, there were probably 100 or so carts a day from Stonecrest mainly going to Spanish Springs on the public roads; maybe a few went further and used the precious multi modal paths south of 466, aka Lower Eqypt.





.


Lower Egypt is a good place to be. Historically though Lower Egypt is to the north of Upper Egypt. So it sounds as though you might be in Lower Egypt. Isn't history fun

[chuckinca]

Don't you mean geographically, which is fun too.

.

[CFrance]

There was NO LIE when they began negotiation....That is the reason the wall was abruptly closed...and then a few weeks later there was a pass installed that used our Villages access card to open it.

So a new precedent was set. NOW, if you want to drive your golf cart in The Villages, you have to live in The Villages.

We really didn't need four thousand more golf carts on our trails that didn't belong to villagers.

I think they are doing the same about the tour buses. They are establishing a new precedent for some good reason other than competition. They sold off the Village transporation system and no longer run it.
I disagree with your analogy. The gate was keeping non villagers off of the golf cart paths. Forcing the excursion buses off Villages property is kicking Villagers out of their own community parking.

[maddie101]

if five women are playing Mah Jongg at Rec Center xyz and then we decide to go to lunch outside of TV. PLAYER # 1 says she will drive. Are we allowed to leave our cars there while we leave ? And what if we decide to go shopping after lunch? Is there a time limit?

[graciegirl]

if five women are playing Mah Jongg at Rec Center xyz and then we decide to go to lunch outside of TV. PLAYER # 1 says she will drive. Are we allowed to leave our cars there while we leave ? And what if we decide to go shopping after lunch? Is there a time limit?

No.

And if five women decide to have a Tupperware party at the rec center so one of them can make money. it isn't allowed. And if five women decide to buy a bus and take turns driving people to the beach and tell their clients to park at the rec center, should it be allowed? Should there be a time limit?

And if a huge industry that backs gambling wants to advertise that their central Florida pick up is at The Villages and they can park at colony for a day trip to the boat, should it be allowed? Sometimes the powers that be know more than we do. Their decisions seem to have been wise so far. We don't really want outside, for profit entities using our common areas.

[CFrance]

No.

And if five women decide to have a Tupperware party at the rec center so one of them can make money. it isn't allowed. And if five women decide to buy a bus and take turns driving people to the beach and tell their clients to park at the rec center, should it be allowed? Should there be a time limit?

And if a huge industry that backs gambling wants to advertise that their central Florida pick up is at The Villages and they can park at colony for a day trip to the boat, should it be allowed? Sometimes the powers that be know more than we do. Their decisions seem to have been wise so far. We don't really want outside, for profit entities using our common areas.
Why do you keep bringing gambling into this? Who is doing this?

[redwitch]

I don't think anyone says the gambling buses should be allowed to use the rec center parking lots. So far as I know, they never have. We're talking about charter buses picking up residents to go on an outing.

I've been at Laurel Manor when a bus picked up a group to go to a baseball game. This was during the high season. Most of the day trippers parked in the far corner. There was still sufficient parking for rec center activities. The trippers were quiet, lined up and happy. It's a shame to take this away from them.

[skip0358]

The practice of buses coming into TV to take people on day trips has been going on since I moved here 6 years ago and I'm sure it was done long before then. The outside bus companies offer a cheaper price then those inside. They offer different venue options then those inside. They have more buses then those inside. They let the clubs plan and price their trips & then charter one of their buses. The one thing they ALL have in common is the amount of parking spaces that the people riding on them take up. So it's not about the parking it's the money. Yea TV wants you to support the local company at a higher price then an outside vendor period. If 38 golf carts are parked in ANY location how does anyone know where those people are ? Before you ask that's about how many are needed for a 56 passenger bus and if needed they can park all 38 in 10 spaces.
This new change is affecting a lot more people then those few have been posting on here. Many haven't realized it yet as it hasn't affected them yet.

[looneycat]

who has been unable to charter a bus as of today? all I've heard is BS, who so far has cancelled a trlp as a result? please don't bother to reply if you haven't because you can only answer with conjecture (BS) otherwise.

[outlaw]

who has been unable to charter a bus as of today? all I've heard is BS, who so far has cancelled a trlp as a result? please don't bother to reply if you haven't because you can only answer with conjecture (BS) otherwise.

Uh, I think it's past the conjecture stage when it has officially been acknowledged that all the bus companies have been given trespass notifications. Or did I misread something? The fact that one hasn't cancelled a trip doesn't mean that the residents are not inconvenienced, or that they are not booking trips, or that they are not paying more to the "approved" company for the same service.

[graciegirl]

I don't think anyone says the gambling buses should be allowed to use the rec center parking lots. So far as I know, they never have. We're talking about charter buses picking up residents to go on an outing.

I've been at Laurel Manor when a bus picked up a group to go to a baseball game. This was during the high season. Most of the day trippers parked in the far corner. There was still sufficient parking for rec center activities. The trippers were quiet, lined up and happy. It's a shame to take this away from them.


You are right.

[LndLocked]

No.

And if five women decide to have a Tupperware party at the rec center so one of them can make money. it isn't allowed. And if five women decide to buy a bus and take turns driving people to the beach and tell their clients to park at the rec center, should it be allowed? Should there be a time limit?

And if a huge industry that backs gambling wants to advertise that their central Florida pick up is at The Villages and they can park at colony for a day trip to the boat, should it be allowed? Sometimes the powers that be know more than we do. Their decisions seem to have been wise so far. We don't really want outside, for profit entities using our common areas.


"We" ..... for whom do you speak??

[mulligan]

I feel the need to point out that the rec centres are owned by the district, and are actually private property, not"ours". District property, district rules. Just like the exec golf courses.

[Justus]

I don't think anyone says the gambling buses should be allowed to use the rec center parking lots. So far as I know, they never have. We're talking about charter buses picking up residents to go on an outing.

I've been at Laurel Manor when a bus picked up a group to go to a baseball game. This was during the high season. Most of the day trippers parked in the far corner. There was still sufficient parking for rec center activities. The trippers were quiet, lined up and happy. It's a shame to take this away from them.

RW, I don't always agree with you, but you are absolutely right on with this one.

[graciegirl]

"We" ..... for whom do you speak??

For MYSELF.

I don't. Do you?

I should have been more specific. I don't think it is a good idea to allow this to happen because it can open a can of worms. Establish a precedent and allow our common areas to be used for parking by people who would abuse the privilege. How about a Disney Shuttle advertising on TV for Park and ride at Colony? There must be a reason and typically we aren't being told what it is, but it isn't always for the Morses to make money.

WHY do you think large cities have bus stations? Usually a dreary place, bus stations.

I'm done with this discussion. Please continue saying how greedy The Morses are.

[graciegirl]

I feel the need to point out that the rec centres are owned by the district, and are actually private property, not"ours". District property, district rules. Just like the exec golf courses.



Mulligan, You know I don't know The Morse family and I certainly don't work for them.

But you are right. It is their bat and ball. AND usually things that they decide to do are the right decision for The Villages and us.

[LndLocked]

For MYSELF.

I don't. Do you?

I should have been more specific. I don't think it is a good idea to allow this to happen because it can open a can of worms. Establish a precedent and allow our common areas to be used for parking by people who would abuse the privilege. How about a Disney Shuttle advertising on TV for Park and ride at Colony? There must be a reason and typically we aren't being told what it is, but it isn't always for the Morses to make money.

WHY do you think large cities have bus stations? Usually a dreary place, bus stations.

I'm done with this discussion. Please continue saying how greedy The Morses are.


I took no position in my post.

I simply asked you to clarify who "we" included.

[Investment Painting Contractors]

My wife and I enjoyed a nice day trip with Senior Adventures for Mothers Day. Dinner theater with the play Chorus Line. We parked at Recreation Plantation like we have for the last nine years no problem. They also pick up at the shopping center on the SW corner of 301 & Hwy 44 for the people living on the south side, again no problem.

[outlaw]

Mulligan, You know I don't know The Morse family and I certainly don't work for them.

But you are right. It is their bat and ball. AND usually things that they decide to do are the right decision for The Villages and us.

A $40 million settlement indicates that the Morse's don't always act in the best interests of the residents. Don't get me wrong. I think this is a great place, and the Morse's did it. But I also don't view everything they do through rose colored glasses. One is being very naive to think this trespass notification to all services but the village vendor isn't money to some extent. I would not be surprised in the least to find that the villages ends up with an agreement with the other bus companies...for a piece of the action, of course.

[Villager Joyce]

For MYSELF.

I don't. Do you?

I should have been more specific. I don't think it is a good idea to allow this to happen because it can open a can of worms. Establish a precedent and allow our common areas to be used for parking by people who would abuse the privilege. How about a Disney Shuttle advertising on TV for Park and ride at Colony? There must be a reason and typically we aren't being told what it is, but it isn't always for the Morses to make money.

WHY do you think large cities have bus stations? Usually a dreary place, bus stations.

I'm done with this discussion. Please continue saying how greedy The Morses are.

Gracie can speak for me, too, but only when she agrees with me.

[graciegirl]

Gracie can speak for me, too, but only when she agrees with me.

I absolutely love you Villager Joyce. And this forum.

And I didn't mean to challenge you Landlocked. You got a lotta smarts.

This has not been a good day so far. I let the sink run over because my aids weren't in.

[outlaw]

There was NO LIE when they began negotiation....That is the reason the wall was abruptly closed...and then a few weeks later there was a pass installed that used our Villages access card to open it.

So a new precedent was set. NOW, if you want to drive your golf cart in The Villages, you have to live in The Villages.

We really didn't need four thousand more golf carts on our trails that didn't belong to villagers.

I think they are doing the same about the tour buses. They are establishing a new precedent for some good reason other than competition. They sold off the Village transporation system and no longer run it.

Keep drinking that koolaid, gracie. You're precious. :1rotfl:

[graciegirl]

Keep drinking that koolaid, gracie. You're precious. :1rotfl:

Yeah. So are you skippy.

[graciegirl]

I feel the need to point out that the rec centres are owned by the district, and are actually private property, not"ours". District property, district rules. Just like the exec golf courses.

bump

[twoplanekid]

I feel the need to point out that the rec centres are owned by the district, and are actually private property, not"ours". District property, district rules. Just like the exec golf courses.

I am not sure this is totally correct. I will examine these points more closely when I have more time

[graciegirl]

I am not sure this is totally correct. I will examine these points more closely when I have more time

Are you a lawyer?

[bimmertl]

Are you a lawyer?

So much for "I'm done with the discussion."

[outlaw]

So much for "I'm done with the discussion."

The Morse's are pretty adamant regarding a full day's work for a full day's pay...

[graciegirl]

The Morse's are pretty adamant regarding a full day's work for a full day's pay...


You work for another developer? How's the pay?

[JoMar]

A $40 million settlement indicates that the Morse's don't always act in the best interests of the residents. Don't get me wrong. I think this is a great place, and the Morse's did it. But I also don't view everything they do through rose colored glasses. One is being very naive to think this trespass notification to all services but the village vendor isn't money to some extent. I would not be surprised in the least to find that the villages ends up with an agreement with the other bus companies...for a piece of the action, of course.

And there is nothing wrong with that approach as I view it. The bus companies will work it out......if they want a piece of our action, TV will work it out if they want a piece of the tour action.

[Bogie Shooter]

My wife and I enjoyed a nice day trip with Senior Adventures for Mothers Day. Dinner theater with the play Chorus Line. We parked at Recreation Plantation like we have for the last nine years no problem. They also pick up at the shopping center on the SW corner of 301 & Hwy 44 for the people living on the south side, again no problem.

Looks like Recreation PLantation already has that rule in place?

[redwitch]

Recreation Plantation/Senior Adventures basically charters the buses and leaves them open for anyone to buy a ticket. It's a good for system for them. Lovely trips to some nice venues.

Something like this might work for TV clubs but I doubt it. One, they deserve the convenience and perceived security of being picked up at a rec center. It is, after all, a club activity. Two, I can't imagine a club wanting to share their bus with strangers even if there were seats available and could make the cost a little less.

I'm trying to imagine what will happen when the BoSox play the Yanks in spring training. You now have two clubs who normally charter buses to go to the game but only one large bus available to rent. I feel sorry for the individual who would have to tell either a Bostonian or a New Yorker the bus has already been chartered, but they could rent a few airport-type vans to take their group or have to tell them they SOL. I'd do a duck and cover on that one.

[tomwed]

Two, I can't imagine a club wanting to share their bus with strangers even if there were seats available and could make the cost a little less.


I respect your opinions and that you have been here awhile and I have not. I golf twice a day so I meet about 6 new people a day. I haven't met anyone I wouldn't share a bus with.
I too often assume everyone thinks like me.

[redwitch]

I respect your opinions and that you have been here awhile and I have not. I golf twice a day so I meet about 6 new people a day. I haven't met anyone I wouldn't share a bus with.
I too often assume everyone thinks like me.

In general, I agree with you. However, we're talking about a group that knows each other. They're bringing food and drinks to share with each other. Can you imagine someone from Stonecrest being welcomed just because they bought a ticket? How about a family from Wildwood? They might not be rude to these folks, but I doubt they would be welcomed. Remember, we're talking a club activity, not a general TV type event.

[chuckinca]

A couple years ago a villages Phillies club was selling unsold game tickets with bus ride on TOTV. I called and bought one. When I went to pick up the ticket I was asked where I lived and I told him Stonecrest - no prob. He lived in one of the older friendly villages.

.

[skip0358]

Here's a thought, most of the old District Offices on Wedgewood Lane are empty as well as the parking lots. Probably room for 100 vehicles or more if parking is the real issue, why not let all the buses use those lots to free up a lot of parking space in the squares?

[DougB]

A couple years ago a villages Phillies club was selling unsold game tickets with bus ride on TOTV. I called and bought one. When I went to pick up the ticket I was asked where I lived and I told him Stonecrest - no prob. He lived in one of the older friendly villages.

.

You drive over in your golf cart? :jester:

[tomwed]

In general, I agree with you. However, we're talking about a group that knows each other. They're bringing food and drinks to share with each other. Can you imagine someone from Stonecrest being welcomed just because they bought a ticket? How about a family from Wildwood? They might not be rude to these folks, but I doubt they would be welcomed. Remember, we're talking a club activity, not a general TV type event.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\

[ukbill70]

Great Idea. I drive by that area most days and if parking is really the problem with buses than the solution has been found.

[tomwed]

Is this village property on the north end of town that management may have overlooked?

[outlaw]

It isn't about parking spaces, it's about the 'vig'.

[bargee]

It isn't about parking spaces, it's about the 'vig'.

You hit right on the head $$$$$$$$$$

[newguyintv]

I can appreciate District Manager Jane Tutts arguments against letting outside transportation companies from picking up or dropping off passengers at the squares or recreation centers. Her statement that “The purpose of my communication to you is that if you have a group planning a trip (whether for a day or longer), the bus companies need to explore pick up location options other than the downtowns or recreation facilities.” has me wondering if there is any place inside The Villages that could be used for this purpose. She doesn’t suggest one.

While I am not yet full time in The Villages, I have heard of many exciting day trips that I would enjoy taking in the future.

There are Bus Stations at Spanish Springs and at Lake Sumter Landing. What's the big deal about allowing Bus Companies using them. A lot of nonsense.

[chuckinca]

You drive over in your golf cart? :jester:

My car and parked it in the Rec center lot all day. Maybe there should be resident stickers on all vehicles and a time limit on others. :jester:

.

[ukbill70]

You hit right on the head $$$$$$$$$$

It's only a matter of time before 'The Powers That Be' announce the purchase of a new 48 seat bus for day trips at a reasonable price. Parking NO problem.

[graciegirl]

It's only a matter of time before 'The Powers That Be' announce the purchase of a new 48 seat bus for day trips at a reasonable price. Parking NO problem.

YOU may think that, but I don't agree. I am guessing that they are establishing some kind of precedent to keep some kind of bus business from using our parking lots as public lots and advertising for outsiders to park here..

They have sold out all kinds of businesses including entertainment, transportation, The Lighthouse, Cane Garden, the restaurant where Panera is now,and Southern Lifestyles, the furniture store, keeping the buildings to rent to new businesses.

I am fully aware that the Morses are capitalists which I fully support, and in my opinion are astute business people, but getting into a niche business like tour buses just doesn't seem plausible.

I don't use tour buses regularly, and none of the people who I know well except for CFrance do...so I have to wonder just what percent of the population here do use them. I wouldn't think many, as I have never seen droves of people boarding a bus. Usually some club or another are begging you to go along so they can fill a bus.

There is a good reason why this is being done and I think it is for our good here in The Villages.

But I have been wrong before.

And I am sorry for those who are being inconvenienced by this decision. They obviously enjoyed this very much. And I may want to do it too someday and will rant about it not being convenient.
.

[CFrance]

YOU may think that, but I don't agree. I am guessing that they are establishing some kind of precedent to keep some kind of bus business from using our parking lots as public lots and advertising for outsiders to park here..

They have sold out all kinds of businesses including entertainment, transportation, The Lighthouse, Cane Garden, the restaurant where Panera is now,and Southern Lifestyles, the furniture store, keeping the buildings to rent to new businesses.

I am fully aware that the Morses are capitalists which I fully support, and in my opinion are astute business people, but getting into a niche business like tour buses just doesn't seem plausible.

I don't use tour buses regularly, and none of the people who I know well except for CFrance do...so I have to wonder just what percent of the population here do use them. I wouldn't think many, as I have never seen droves of people boarding a bus. Usually some club or another are begging you to go along so they can fill a bus.

There is a good reason why this is being done and I think it is for our good here in The Villages.

But I have been wrong before.

And I am sorry for those who are being inconvenienced by this decision. They obviously enjoyed this very much. And I may want to do it too someday and will rant about it not being convenient.
.
I agree with most of that--not all of it. The only thing I would add is that the term "tour buses" is a bit misleading. They're really day trips to different club-related activities for the most part. The Juliets do trips because that's what they do--plan fun activities for members. The various city/state clubs do things related to their cities, such as spring training games, etc. I think it's that which should be allowed, and will become harder to do, as opposed to a company set up to do gambling trips and the like, for their own financial benefit.

I don't think TV will be buying buses. However, I don't buy the parking dilemma excuse, and I do feel that in the four years we've been here, some of the conveniences have been taken away.

And don't tell me to move! We're allowed to love it here while still being critical of certain aspects. Everybody gets a say.:kiss:

[graciegirl]

I agree with most of that--not all of it. The only thing I would add is that the term "tour buses" is a bit misleading. They're really day trips to different club-related activities for the most part. The Juliets do trips because that's what they do--plan fun activities for members. The various city/state clubs do things related to their cities, such as spring training games, etc. I think it's that which should be allowed, and will become harder to do, as opposed to a company set up to do gambling trips and the like, for their own financial benefit.

I don't think TV will be buying buses. However, I don't buy the parking dilemma excuse, and I do feel that in the four years we've been here, some of the conveniences have been taken away.

And don't tell me to move! We're allowed to love it here while still being critical of certain aspects. Everybody gets a say.:kiss:

CFRANCE....if you moved the sun would be not so bright or the sky not as blue and the fun would be gone from this forum. We all treasure your wit, humor, intelligence and just plain common sense...and we just love you.

[skip0358]

The club I belong to has a committee that plans the trips, charters a bus, sells the tickets and makes little to no profit after the tips are paid. The trips are for members and their guest only not outsiders. After this parking issue came up we contacted an authorized bus company that wanted $17.00 per person more then we were paying for the same trip. We're still looking for a parking space. In the past we've had NO issues even when we had 3 bus loads of members going. We knew how & where to park to conserve spaces for the businesses. :grumpy:

[graciegirl]

The club I belong to has a committee that plans the trips, charters a bus, sells the tickets and makes little to no profit after the tips are paid. The trips are for members and their guest only not outsiders. After this parking issue came up we contacted an authorized bus company that wanted $17.00 per person more then we were paying for the same trip. We're still looking for a parking space. In the past we've had NO issues even when we had 3 bus loads of members going. We knew how & where to park to conserve spaces for the businesses. :grumpy:


The club isn't making a profit. The bus company and the tour director are which is fine. I am all for free enterprise. I still say that they are stopping this for some good reason. Such as a bus company who may advertise that anyone from nearby towns can park in our parking lots and take a shuttle to Disney or the gambling boats, that would be my first guess. As that would be a coup for a bus company and tour directors.

I may be wrong. You certainly are not wrong.

[CFrance]

"They" could quietly let the club buses go, as in the way they handle complaint-driven deed compliance issues. I can understand not wanting tours to come in from outside and having that built up so much that it really does cause parking problems. But the clubs are supposed to be here, and all the parking is taken up by Villagers who otherwise might be parking at the squares or rec centers anyway.

There could be a compromise in there somewhere.

[Villager Joyce]

The club I belong to has a committee that plans the trips, charters a bus, sells the tickets and makes little to no profit after the tips are paid. The trips are for members and their guest only not outsiders. After this parking issue came up we contacted an authorized bus company that wanted $17.00 per person more then we were paying for the same trip. We're still looking for a parking space. In the past we've had NO issues even when we had 3 bus loads of members going. We knew how & where to park to conserve spaces for the businesses. :grumpy:

Would the $17 per person additional be charged if the pickup was at one if the local churches on or just off property? Several of us have suggested working with churches for parking on non church days as a viable option. Have you attempted to contact a church? If the $17 goes away, the club could donate $5 per car. Would or could be a win win.