Application Withdrawn!

[Justus]

Congratulations to The Villages Developer! The City of Wildwood's attempts to hold TV hostage for more, more, more...and yet more...failed! Hurray! When the powers-that-be in Wildwood wake up and smells the coffee, they'll realize the abject stupidity and short-sightedness of their own greed.

Unfortunately, the real losers in all of this will be the business owners - and ultimately the citizens - of Wildwood, not those who took such a foolish and arrogant stand. :pepper2:

[justjim]

OP, Exactly, Wildwood (according to the Daily Sun) missed out on a great opportunity. If their Leaders think they can "bully" the Village Developer, they sure got fooled. Sooner or later this property will be developed---- it is valuable mainly because of The Villages.

[Polar Bear]

Yes, Kudos to the developer.

Still probably a chance to get back to the negotiating table. You never know.

[keywest]

The mayor of Wildwood, in trying to dictate to The Villages and the Morse family, was involved in negotiations that were "way over his head". I believe the mayor's main fear was that he would lose his "job" in the city's next re-election... Well guess what?... He will... When Wildwood wakes up and realizes what they missed out on. The damage for them has already been done and IF AND WHEN they would want to re-open the negotiations with The Villages again ... it will never be at the same price or conditions originally offered to them.....IMHO....

[sunnyatlast]

It's probably not greed so much as it is prejudice toward the potential voting bloc that wisely votes for fiscal solvency and against deficit spending that accumulates and cripples the economy.

Some other fly by night outfit will build there.

[ricthemic]

Agree w all above post. I also hope the Morse's still purchase the land.

[dewilson58]

So was it just about trees and sidewalks??

[kstew43]

So was it just about trees and sidewalks??

personally I think it was the zip code issue.......it would be a wildwood zip and not a village zip code. potentially may cause a lower price point for the developers....when they attempt to sell the houses.

[NYGUY]

The residents of Wildwood become the real losers here....all thanks to the misguided leaders of their city.

[njbchbum]

Offering my condolences to the taxpayers and business owners of Wildwood; and my congratulations to the Developer! Sorry, too, for the Villagers whose homes abut the Wildwood tract - especially if the Mayor and Commissioners get what they think they want!

[billethkid]

Amateurs VS Professionals....not intended to be a negative bash at all.

[villagetinker]

As a villager that lives close to the proposed Wildwood development, I am somewhat glad that Wildwood has initially balked at the proposed development. IMHO, there are several issues that need to be addressed, as noted in the newspaper article, so now the 2 sides can sit down and discuss these. One of the biggest issues, I think, will be golf cart access, it appears that it will be very inconvenient for the proposed residents to get to Pinellas Plaza or Brownwood areas. The direct access between TV and Wildwood by golf cart would seem to be another sticking point. For example, most of the roads to the West of Powell and 462 do not appear to be suitable for golf carts, and even the newly redesigned 466a has a BYCYCLE lane, not a GOLF CART lane, so while the mayor wants access, it looks like this would just create a major safety issue.
Personally I lean more toward the mixed use concept, possibly with a strip mall of convenience shops (NO MORE BANKS), and some additional housing. These are already several facilities for the care of aging adults, so not sure if this would be needed at this location.
Since this appears to be a hot button, it would be interesting to see if the developer would have an open meeting with the TV community to get feedback from the residents regarding their concerns, and see if there is common ground between Wildwood, TV residents, and the developer.

These are just my humble opinion, please do not shoot the messenger.

[Phanatic Luvr]

Is it just me thinking .... I'm actually relieved there won't be 800 more houses on that corner. Does anyone other than myself think about our property values down the road and an overly developed community?
After the baby boomer generation is over, will there be a lot of our kids who have money to retire comfortably and afford a place like TV's? I'm not so sure about that. Just my thoughts ...

[TVMayor]

Wildwood no thank you.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii199/The_Villages/Wildwood3.jpg

[TheVillageChicken]

The withdrawal of the application has affected me exactly as much as the submission of the application.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/knitepoet/FUNNY/Give-A-damn.gif

[graciegirl]

Is it just me thinking .... I'm actually relieved there won't be 800 more houses on that corner. Does anyone other than myself think about our property values down the road and an overly developed community?
After the baby boomer generation is over, will there be a lot of our kids who have money to retire comfortably and afford a place like TV's? I'm not so sure about that. Just my thoughts ...

We will all be in the Village of Heavenly by then. The world will be run by others. Now is the day to dance.

I feel comforted as long as there is a Morse presence felt. I just worry about when the inmates try to run the asylum.

People will overspend on foolish things, deleting the beautiful flowers because it is too expensive, and use too much water, make it into a multi generational community. Decide they would like to see government housing where the golf courses are. Oh yes.

Glad to be here, alive and kicking right now with The Morses at the helm.

[downeaster]

As a villager that lives close to the proposed Wildwood development, I am somewhat glad that Wildwood has initially balked at the proposed development. IMHO, there are several issues that need to be addressed, as noted in the newspaper article, so now the 2 sides can sit down and discuss these. One of the biggest issues, I think, will be golf cart access, it appears that it will be very inconvenient for the proposed residents to get to Pinellas Plaza or Brownwood areas. The direct access between TV and Wildwood by golf cart would seem to be another sticking point. For example, most of the roads to the West of Powell and 462 do not appear to be suitable for golf carts, and even the newly redesigned 466a has a BYCYCLE lane, not a GOLF CART lane, so while the mayor wants access, it looks like this would just create a major safety issue.
Personally I lean more toward the mixed use concept, possibly with a strip mall of convenience shops (NO MORE BANKS), and some additional housing. These are already several facilities for the care of aging adults, so not sure if this would be needed at this location.
Since this appears to be a hot button, it would be interesting to see if the developer would have an open meeting with the TV community to get feedback from the residents regarding their concerns, and see if there is common ground between Wildwood, TV residents, and the developer.

These are just my humble opinion, please do not shoot the messenger.

Without saying whether or not I share villagetinker's opinion, I will say it is well said. I congratulate the messenger.

[zonerboy]

Just my opinion:
We need another 800 homes in this area like we need a hole in the head. This was a poorly conceived plan by the developer. Home owners in this proposed addition to The Villages would be essentially hemmed in with no golf cart access to other areas of The Villages and it's amenities or to nearby shopping.
Congrats to Wildwood officials for saying no to this atrocious proposal!

[dewilson58]

As a villager that lives close to the proposed Wildwood development, I am somewhat glad that Wildwood has initially balked at the proposed development. IMHO, there are several issues that need to be addressed, as noted in the newspaper article, so now the 2 sides can sit down and discuss these. One of the biggest issues, I think, will be golf cart access, it appears that it will be very inconvenient for the proposed residents to get to Pinellas Plaza or Brownwood areas. The direct access between TV and Wildwood by golf cart would seem to be another sticking point. For example, most of the roads to the West of Powell and 462 do not appear to be suitable for golf carts, and even the newly redesigned 466a has a BYCYCLE lane, not a GOLF CART lane, so while the mayor wants access, it looks like this would just create a major safety issue.
Personally I lean more toward the mixed use concept, possibly with a strip mall of convenience shops (NO MORE BANKS), and some additional housing. These are already several facilities for the care of aging adults, so not sure if this would be needed at this location.
Since this appears to be a hot button, it would be interesting to see if the developer would have an open meeting with the TV community to get feedback from the residents regarding their concerns, and see if there is common ground between Wildwood, TV residents, and the developer.

These are just my humble opinion, please do not shoot the messenger.


Thanks for sharing the issues at hand.

[nkrifats]

Glad to see Wildwood take a stand and not just roll over for the villages.
Does the Villages help the area. Yes.
Do they exercise too much control over Sumter County and the surrounding area. Yes I think so.

[VILLAGER 2011]

Any association with Wildwood changes The Village's demographics. We don't need a Village future that includes residents in a Village zip code with a propensity to riot, commit crime.. It is already happening in Brownwood and Spanish Springs
Be careful who you invite to the party...

[graciegirl]

The mayor of Wildwood, in trying to dictate to The Villages and the Morse family, was involved in negotiations that were "way over his head". I believe the mayor's main fear was that he would lose his "job" in the city's next re-election... Well guess what?... He will... When Wildwood wakes up and realizes what they missed out on. The damage for them has already been done and IF AND WHEN they would want to re-open the negotiations with The Villages again ... it will never be at the same price or conditions originally offered to them.....IMHO....

I agree.

[Jayhawk]

We will all be in the Village of Heavenly by then. The world will be run by others. Now is the day to dance.

I feel comforted as long as there is a Morse presence felt. I just worry about when the inmates try to run the asylum.

People will overspend on foolish things, deleting the beautiful flowers because it is too expensive, and use too much water, make it into a multi generational community. Decide they would like to see government housing where the golf courses are. Oh yes.

Glad to be here, alive and kicking right now with The Morses at the helm.


Excellent points. What too many folks seem to not understand is The Villages is a BUSINESS. It is not a city.

DEFINITION of 'Business Model'

The plan implemented by a company to generate revenue and make a profit from operations. The model includes the components and functions of the business, as well as the revenues it generates and the expenses it incurs.

I'm not sure where some got the idea that decisions about how to run this business that the Morse family built with their own money at RISK should lie with the residents. We as homeowners or renters are consumers who have purchased the product and services (amenities) that the business owner has created.

If someone buys a home in a subdivision anywhere and decide they do not like aspects of it, they can decide to live with it, work to change it, or move on. The difference between a home in a subdivision in a city and a home in The Villages is none of us live in the CITY OF THE VILLAGES. We live in a master development spread out over 3 counties and several towns. Yes, we live in Wildwood or Lady Lake or Fruitland Park (soon). Ever notice the police presence around us is Lady Lake police, Wildwood police, Sumter County sheriff, etc.?

Yes, I do love living in the business known as The Villages. The only consistent negative that I see is the incredibly small group of residents who seem to complain about everything and seem to believe they are ENTITLED to change the business model that they did not create.

As one wiser than most wrote, "Now is the day to dance" .

:pepper2::pepper2::pepper2::pepper2::pepper2:

[jbdlfan]

Glad to see Wildwood take a stand and not just roll over for the villages.
Does the Villages help the area. Yes.
Do they exercise too much control over Sumter County and the surrounding area. Yes I think so.

Couldn't agree with you more. I have two children and their families that live in Sumter County and I hear that stance often from their in-laws. None of my children or their spouses work for any businesses that are supported or are in any way affiliated with anything "Villages." Neither are any members of their extended families. It is an interesting take when you have conversations with these folks because they often see TV impact much differently than many found on this forum.
I personally applaud the Mayor for not immediately rolling over and am convinced that this will be resolved with both sides satisfied in the end.

[Justus]

Excellent points. What too many folks seem to not understand is The Villages is a BUSINESS. It is not a city.

DEFINITION of 'Business Model'

The plan implemented by a company to generate revenue and make a profit from operations. The model includes the components and functions of the business, as well as the revenues it generates and the expenses it incurs.

I'm not sure where some got the idea that decisions about how to run this business that the Morse family built with their own money at RISK should lie with the residents. We as homeowners or renters are consumers who have purchased the product and services (amenities) that the business owner has created.

If someone buys a home in a subdivision anywhere and decide they do not like aspects of it, they can decide to live with it, work to change it, or move on. The difference between a home in a subdivision in a city and a home in The Villages is none of us live in the CITY OF THE VILLAGES. We live in a master development spread out over 3 counties and several towns. Yes, we live in Wildwood or Lady Lake or Fruitland Park (soon). Ever notice the police presence around us is Lady Lake police, Wildwood police, Sumter County sheriff, etc.?

Yes, I do love living in the business known as The Villages. The only consistent negative that I see is the incredibly small group of residents who seem to complain about everything and seem to believe they are ENTITLED to change the business model that they did not create.

As one wiser than most wrote, "Now is the day to dance" .

:pepper2::pepper2::pepper2::pepper2::pepper2:

Amen!!! Those who have never risked everything they own to follow a dream are all-too-eager to criticize those who do. Great post! :pepper2:

[champion6]

<snip>Personally I lean more toward the mixed use concept, possibly with a strip mall of convenience shops (NO MORE BANKS), and some additional housing. These are already several facilities for the care of aging adults, so not sure if this would be needed at this location.<snip>I think you are essentially describing Trailwinds Village, the mixed-use development that has already been approved by Wildwood. Trailwinds Village Property Overview (http://trailwindsvillage.com/property-overview/)

[Jim 9922]

The mayor is "concerned" about trees, sidewalks, and land use. Maybe he should consider his own backyard; a stroll in downtown Wildwood reveals a treeless main street with lots of vacant storefronts, crumbling sidewalks, dusty parking lots, a plethora of resale, antique, auction, tire , used car lots, storage lots, and pawn shops. Upscale shopping at Tin Can Pam's followed by fine dining at the Oakwood Express. Then there is speedy quick road reconstruction, 1 1/2 mile takes more than 18 months and is still far from complete, and how many trees were chopped down for that? And what would Wildwood do with all that new $3.5 million to spend each year??? It must boggle their minds. And all the free entertainment in Wildwood's downtown park (no music, but watch the trains roll thru).
Politics is the name of the game, the heck with progress or "relatively clean" tax revenue. "Save my job":crap2:

[keywest]

Couldn't agree with you more. I have two children and their families that live in Sumter County and I hear that stance often from their in-laws. None of my children or their spouses work for any businesses that are supported or are in any way affiliated with anything "Villages." Neither are any members of their extended families. It is an interesting take when you have conversations with these folks because they often see TV impact much differently than many found on this forum.
I personally applaud the Mayor for not immediately rolling over and am convinced that this will be resolved with both sides satisfied in the end.

But I'm sure these "family members" don't complain when they come inside The Villages for some of their entertainment, shopping, eating etc.
Hmmmmm...............

[Sandtrap328]

Absolutely right. Wildwood has very little to offer anyone. It has a couple of tearoom restaurants, a couple of barbeque joints, and just about nothing else. There are closed businesses on Main Street, the town looks just plain dirty, and there is a LOT of crime there, mainly drug related.

I know I am glad not to be living near the Wildwood edge - or any edge - of The Villages.

[Polar Bear]

Excellent points. What too many folks seem to not understand is The Villages is a BUSINESS. It is not a city...
I agree with most of your assessment.

But while TV is definitely a business, it is also a CDD. To simply state that TV is a business and not a city is a bit simplistic. While a CDD is not technically a city, it is definitely more than just a business, and resembles a city in many ways.

Plus, whether it's technically accurate or not, I think most residents living here, shopping here, socializing here and having fun here would say TV much more closely resembles a city than just a business.

[sunnyatlast]

We will all be in the Village of Heavenly by then. The world will be run by others. Now is the day to dance.

I feel comforted as long as there is a Morse presence felt. I just worry about when the inmates try to run the asylum.

People will overspend on foolish things, deleting the beautiful flowers because it is too expensive, and use too much water, make it into a multi generational community. Decide they would like to see government housing where the golf courses are. Oh yes.

Glad to be here, alive and kicking right now with The Morses at the helm.

I agree completely, from seeing the highlighted phrases above happen. Friends in a beautiful golf community of 55+ condos in the midwest have watched…... as the family apartment village bordering the golf course and pool was sold to some trashy investment apartment conglomerate, to make the hundreds of apartments in the complex into Section 8 subsidized housing…..

….IN the golf community, not "by" it, and beside the beautiful condos run by retired business executives who know how to manage the HOA solvently and keep the condo fees down, under $200/mo.

I wish more people who complain here had actually worked in a business where they saw and had to understand an income/expense worksheet, and how the revenue is earned in sales and brought in to pay the bills. Nobody--especially not politicians glad-handing for votes--is going to match the TV developers in that arena.

[firebiker]

I'm not understanding the zip code issue. We live south of 466A which is "in" Wildwood, but we have a Villages zip code. What's the big deal???

[sunnyatlast]

Couldn't agree with you more. I have two children and their families that live in Sumter County and I hear that stance often from their in-laws. None of my children or their spouses work for any businesses that are supported or are in any way affiliated with anything "Villages." Neither are any members of their extended families. It is an interesting take when you have conversations with these folks because they often see TV impact much differently than many found on this forum.
I personally applaud the Mayor for not immediately rolling over and am convinced that this will be resolved with both sides satisfied in the end.

Let's see here…..

Looking at my Sumter County Property tax on a Villages 3/2 home here with selling market price of $225,000 or so, I see tax billed as:

Sumter County: $1,062
Sumter School Board: $1,128

I'm sure those relatives don't mind 50,000 homes paying school taxes into the county school taxes, all by residents/homeowners having no children to be schooled and in need of added schools in Wildwood or Fruitland Park or wherever.

Lake County only dreams of having that school tax revenue from TV.

[keithwand]

Dumbwood I mean Wildwood has a business plan? Who knew?

[TheVillageChicken]

Let's see here…..

Looking at my Sumter County Property tax on a Villages 3/2 home here with selling market price of $225,000 or so, I see tax billed as:

Sumter County: $1,062
Sumter School Board: $1,128

I'm sure those relatives don't mind 50,000 homes paying school taxes into the county school taxes, all by residents/homeowners having no children to be schooled and in need of schools here.

Lake County only dreams of having that.

I don't mind paying school taxes even though I have no family using the schools. It is in my best interest to have an educated population, and to have the little bastards off the streets during the day.

[Justus]

Glad to see Wildwood take a stand and not just roll over for the villages.
Does the Villages help the area. Yes.
Do they exercise too much control over Sumter County and the surrounding area. Yes I think so.

By all related reportage, it was not Wildwood, but The Villages, which took the final stand. A fair and equitable proposal was made by the Developer. When the Mayor of Wildwood thought the deal was "in the bag", he overestimated his position of strength in the negotiations and tried to extort unreasonable last-minute concessions. It was a common, rather foolish, error of judgment.

Unless the Mayor has a rabbit somewhere in his tiny bag of tricks, this faux pas will cost the citizens and businesses of Wildwood dearly. Hope he has his resume in order.

[Rickg]

The Mayor has painted himself into a corner by negotiating in the press. Bad practice, he should know better. It leaves him no place to go until/if The Villages decides to come back to him and most likely offer less.

[Villageswimmer]

I'm not understanding the zip code issue. We live south of 466A which is "in" Wildwood, but we have a Villages zip code. What's the big deal???

Your question made me curious so I googled: Wildwood FL city limits map.

turns out that your area and most of TV south of 466a is NOT included, while the parcel in question and Pinellas Plaza is.

Interesting. Sorry...cant post the link but youll find it if you google it.

[Jayhawk]

I agree with most of your assessment.

But while TV is definitely a business, it is also a CDD. To simply state that TV is a business and not a city is a bit simplistic. While a CDD is not technically a city, it is definitely more than just a business, and resembles a city in many ways.

Plus, whether it's technically accurate or not, I think most residents living here, shopping here, socializing here and having fun here would say TV much more closely resembles a city than just a business.

Whether it resembles a city or not, the reality is that is is not one, any more than Recreation Plantation on 466 is. Both are organized businesses providing housing and amenities / activities. Yet I would be highly surprised to see anyone at Recreation Plantation going to great lengths to tell the ownership how to run the park, what and where to build, dispute their right to add or remove attractions (like the buffalo, Katie Belle's, etc. :shrug:) ,and otherwise how to put their financial investment at risk. And even if they tried, the ownership there would probably tell them (and rightfully so) that if they don't like and appreciate the business proposal, maybe it would be best for everyone if they moved on to another place that fit their needs and wants. After all, Recreation Plantation does a robust business. So does the Villages. I think both business principals know what's best for their own operation.

We all move here knowing (or should know) that there is no mayor and council government at The Villages. Anyone who landed here without understanding that needs a history lesson.

[Polar Bear]

Whether it resembles a city or not, the reality is that is is not one, any more than Recreation Plantation on 466 is...

I'm a bit surprised at your reply since I expressed agreement with most of your post. TV is a for-profit endeavor and I'm all for it. But if you want to press the point...
The Villages & Recreation Plantation. Yeah...that's a really good comparison. Give me a break.
If you want to use technical definitions for what is a city, you're 100% correct. TV is not a city. In any other commonly perceived sense of the word, your comparison fails miserably.

[sunnyatlast]

Whether it resembles a city or not, the reality is that is is not one, any more than Recreation Plantation on 466 is. Both are organized businesses providing housing and amenities / activities. Yet I would be highly surprised to see anyone at Recreation Plantation going to great lengths to tell the ownership how to run the park, what and where to build, dispute their right to add or remove attractions (like the buffalo, Katie Belle's, etc. :shrug:) ,and otherwise how to put their financial investment at risk. And even if they tried, the ownership there would probably tell them (and rightfully so) that if they don't like and appreciate the business proposal, maybe it would be best for everyone if they moved on to another place that fit their needs and wants. After all, Recreation Plantation does a robust business. So does the Villages. I think both business principals know what's best for their own operation.

We all move here knowing (or should know) that there is no mayor and council government at The Villages. Anyone who landed here without understanding that needs a history lesson.

And that lack of elected, grinning glad-hands is why TV is uniquely successful in the nation and world.

[jbdlfan]

But I'm sure these "family members" don't complain when they come inside The Villages for some of their entertainment, shopping, eating etc.
Hmmmmm...............
Hmmmmm....well, they, "family members" (not sure why that was in quotes), don't come in here that often. You may find this hard to believe, but there are other activities outside The Villages. They go to Clermont, Bushnell, Ocala, Eustis, Mt. Dora and other places including The Villages. I'm pretty sure the businesses that they do frequent greatly appreciate the money they spend.

[jbdlfan]

Let's see here…..

Looking at my Sumter County Property tax on a Villages 3/2 home here with selling market price of $225,000 or so, I see tax billed as:

Sumter County: $1,062
Sumter School Board: $1,128

I'm sure those relatives don't mind 50,000 homes paying school taxes into the county school taxes, all by residents/homeowners having no children to be schooled and in need of added schools in Wildwood or Fruitland Park or wherever.

Lake County only dreams of having that school tax revenue from TV.
Guess what, even before those coveted tax dollars were entering their coffers they were highly rated schools. Lake Pan and a few others have been known as Model schools long before growth south of 466A. That being said, sure they'll take a few million dollars more for the schools, who wouldn't. But if you think all those residents in southern Sumter County welcome the changes you would be sadly mistaken. I know it's hard to believe but The Villages is not the center of the Universe.....

[NavyNJ]

Your question made me curious so I googled: Wildwood FL city limits map.

turns out that your area and most of TV south of 466a is NOT included, while the parcel in question and Pinellas Plaza is.

Interesting. Sorry...cant post the link but youll find it if you google it.

Saw your post and figured I'd check it out. Wow! What a convoluted city limit boundary Wildwood has! Take a look at the map at the link and check out some of the crazy zigs and zags.

Wildwood City Limit Map (http://www.maptechnica.com/us-city-boundary-map/city/Wildwood/state/FL/cityid/1277675)

[tuccillo]

I recently heard a residential CDD best described as "township-like", if you come from an area that had townships (I didn't). Each CDD has a board that sets a budget for maintaining the CDD. They have the ability to collect money for maintenance and other services so they are Government-like. Essentially, The Villages is a collection of CDDs (both residential and non-residential), each of which has maintenance responsibilities but also share some common administrative infrastructure. You can think of the CDDs as organizations that provide additional services beyond what the Counties provide and have the ability to collect money to provide those services. The geographic extent of a CDD is determined when it created and they have a maximum size. That is why we now have 11 residential CDDs. Your CDD and the county are your governments.

Whether it resembles a city or not, the reality is that is is not one, any more than Recreation Plantation on 466 is. Both are organized businesses providing housing and amenities / activities. Yet I would be highly surprised to see anyone at Recreation Plantation going to great lengths to tell the ownership how to run the park, what and where to build, dispute their right to add or remove attractions (like the buffalo, Katie Belle's, etc. :shrug:) ,and otherwise how to put their financial investment at risk. And even if they tried, the ownership there would probably tell them (and rightfully so) that if they don't like and appreciate the business proposal, maybe it would be best for everyone if they moved on to another place that fit their needs and wants. After all, Recreation Plantation does a robust business. So does the Villages. I think both business principals know what's best for their own operation.

We all move here knowing (or should know) that there is no mayor and council government at The Villages. Anyone who landed here without understanding that needs a history lesson.

[twoplanekid]

I find it interesting that the people who suggest that the developer runs TV as a business are taking the same position as the IRS in the Bond case. While our TV attorneys claim that the Villages are operated under CDD rules that allow elected officials to govern.

[Villager Joyce]

So How many Villagers live within the boundaries of Wildwood? Or asked a different way, how many Villagers get to vote in the next mayoral election?

[sunnyatlast]

Guess what, even before those coveted tax dollars were entering their coffers they were highly rated schools. Lake Pan and a few others have been known as Model schools long before growth south of 466A. That being said, sure they'll take a few million dollars more for the schools, who wouldn't. But if you think all those residents in southern Sumter County welcome the changes you would be sadly mistaken. I know it's hard to believe but The Villages is not the center of the Universe.....

We don't disagree on that. I'm well aware of how Leesburg, Fruitland Park, etc. do not want the developer encroachment into their fair cities/towns.

But the bottom line is that if it's not TV--a known quantity and recipe that works--it will be some other developer that could care far less about what happens when they are long gone.

I think it was JFK who said, "Keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer". Wisdom to live by.

[NavyNJ]

So How many Villagers live within the boundaries of Wildwood? Or asked a different way, how many Villagers get to vote in the next mayoral election?

None that I can see from the map I found. As of now, it looks like the city limits skirt the current boundaries of TV. The parcel being discussed in this thread would solidly land within the city limits, which would make all those residents eligible to vote in Wildwood municipal elections (I would think). That might present a sufficient size voting block to possibly sway election outcomes in their mind. Who knows? Haven't bothered to research Wildwood election stats from past few elections.

[sunnyatlast]

Elections stats are here:

Sumter County Supervisor of Elections > Home (http://www.sumterelections.org)

[outlaw]

The Villages will continue to prosper. Wildwood will prosper. Plenty of people moving to Florida. Someone will develop this property. No harm, no foul.

[CFrance]

The mayor of Wildwood, in trying to dictate to The Villages and the Morse family, was involved in negotiations that were "way over his head". I believe the mayor's main fear was that he would lose his "job" in the city's next re-election... Well guess what?... He will... When Wildwood wakes up and realizes what they missed out on. The damage for them has already been done and IF AND WHEN they would want to re-open the negotiations with The Villages again ... it will never be at the same price or conditions originally offered to them.....IMHO....
The mayor is not running for re-election, and neither is the one commissioner who was against the development.

Who thinks this is not the end of the story? I bet they will get together on it.

[CFrance]

The Villages will continue to prosper. Wildwood will prosper. Plenty of people moving to Florida. Someone will develop this property. No harm, no foul.
I agree.

[graciegirl]

The mayor is not running for re-election, and neither is the one commissioner who was against the development.

Who thinks this is not the end of the story? I bet they will get together on it.

I have said this many times CFrance. Your mama didn't have any dumb kids.

[outlaw]

Those who think Wildwood blew it must think that money trumps simplicity, less congestion, or rural surroundings. Maybe the Wildwood citizens are happy the way things are in their community. Maybe they don't want the crowds and traffic that comes with endless "progress". Maybe they live here because they wanted a rural lifestyle. Honestly, I'm glad that the developer withdrew. I think the building strategy is getting out of hand. It is already very crowded in that area, and 800 new homes is a lot of people. I know some will think I'm selfish, and that's alright. I do believe the land owner and the developer have the right to develop the property. I'm just saying, for me, I hope it doesn't happen.

[NECHFalcon68]

Saw your post and figured I'd check it out. Wow! What a convoluted city limit boundary Wildwood has! Take a look at the map at the link and check out some of the crazy zigs and zags.

Wildwood City Limit Map (http://www.maptechnica.com/us-city-boundary-map/city/Wildwood/state/FL/cityid/1277675)

Interesting that St Vincent de Paul Church is not within Wildwood limits....

[graciegirl]

Those who think Wildwood blew it must think that money trumps simplicity, less congestion, or rural surroundings. Maybe the Wildwood citizens are happy the way things are in their community. Maybe they don't want the crowds and traffic that comes with endless "progress". Maybe they live here because they wanted a rural lifestyle. Honestly, I'm glad that the developer withdrew. I think the building strategy is getting out of hand. It is already very crowded in that area, and 800 new homes is a lot of people. I know some will think I'm selfish, and that's alright. I do believe the land owner and the developer have the right to develop the property. I'm just saying, for me, I hope it doesn't happen.

Just because it didn't happen doesn't mean it won't happen. There will be things built there and I can't think they will be as nice as The Villages build them. It is no more crowded in that area than in the area around 466 or in any other area of The Villages. The density is the same.

It has only been THREE years since nothing was below 466A. I think the commercial construction will soon catch up to the growth, just as it did in the less new parts..

As for Wildwood, you need to investigate a little further. Wildwood and Fruitland Park both will gain from the association. Money is not all evil.

[patfla06]

Is it just me thinking .... I'm actually relieved there won't be 800 more houses on that corner. Does anyone other than myself think about our property values down the road and an overly developed community?
After the baby boomer generation is over, will there be a lot of our kids who have money to retire comfortably and afford a place like TV's? I'm not so sure about that. Just my thoughts ...

I am also relieved. Adding another 800 homes would be a lot in this area.

That being said, I do believe it will be developed at some point and would rather have it done by The Villages.

I have to agree with you and also wonder if the "next wave" of retirees will be able to retire here.
Many will not have company pensions as many of us have.
I just hope the buyers will still be there in the future.

[Miles42]

Glad to hear that the developers did not knuckle down to the Wildwood city idiots.

[Big O]

Personally, I think his constituents have not "explained it properly" to mayor just yet.

[NYGUY]

[QUOTE=firebiker;1052442]I'm not understanding the zip code issue. We live south of 466A which is "in" Wildwood, but we have a Villages zip code./QUOTE]

I believe you live in The Village of Fernandina. That "is not" in Wildwood. If you lived in Wildwood you would be paying "Wildwood" property taxes, which you are not.

[dbussone]

[QUOTE=firebiker;1052442]I'm not understanding the zip code issue. We live south of 466A which is "in" Wildwood, but we have a Villages zip code./QUOTE]



I believe you live in The Village of Fernandina. That "is not" in Wildwood. If you lived in Wildwood you would be paying "Wildwood" property taxes, which you are not.


Correct NY Guy. I also live south of 466A which is in unincorporated Sumter County.

[Villager Dude]

Let's be careful what we wish for. There are many things that could be worse than 800 homes. I would prefer not seeing 800 homes there but It is not a given that is will be a shopping area. It could very well be a large apartment complex. The key is who owns that land and what their mission will be.

I have been surprised there was not a Multi Model path along the South side of 466A to get to Pinellas . Sorta like the one along 466. Anyone else think that was strange ?

[Shimpy]

[QUOTE=NYGUY;1052615][QUOTE=firebiker;1052442]I'm not understanding the zip code issue. ./QUOTE]

Me either...... I thought the postal service set the zip codes, not the Wildwood mayor, guess I'm wrong.

[champion6]

So How many Villagers live within the boundaries of Wildwood? Or asked a different way, how many Villagers get to vote in the next mayoral election?Owners in the two villa neighborhoods near Brownwood live in Wildwood. Alden Bungalows is on Powell Rd. and Antrim Dells is on Buena Vista Blvd. Those are the only Villages residential units within Wildwood. Verified on Sumter County GIS site.

[buzzy]

I think this parcel is a white elephant to anyone but The Villages developer. There is nothing about Wildwood that would attract either businesses or residents, except for being part of The Villages community. If another developer started some mixed-use projects, I would expect low occupancy rates, incomplete projects, and eventual developer bankrupcy.

[dbussone]

[QUOTE=NYGUY;1052615][QUOTE=firebiker;1052442]I'm not understanding the zip code issue. ./QUOTE]

Me either...... I thought the postal service set the zip codes, not the Wildwood mayor, guess I'm wrong.

As I understand it, a large development may request use of a zip code. And remember that Lady Lake is the PO that provides service to TV.

[dbussone]

Owners in the two villa neighborhoods near Brownwood live in Wildwood. Alden Bungalows is on Powell Rd. and Antrim Dells is on Buena Vista Blvd. Those are the only Villages residential units within Wildwood. Verified on Sumter County GIS site.

And the businesses in Pinellas Plaza and those southwest of, and including, Brownwood are also in Wildwood.

[Topspinmo]

I don't mind paying school taxes even though I have no family using the schools. It is in my best interest to have an educated population, and to have the little bastards off the streets during the day.


So you think your getting your tax money worth? Public schools IMO in failing business model which all the fixes are raise school tax. Less school days more school breaks model is not working still have dumbing down compared to even third world schooling. India and China have better educated students with way less money spent. Money not the answer all the time IMO. Our system broke and will continue to be broke. Trillions can't fix it. All that does is raise superintendent salaries.

[sunnyatlast]

I think this parcel is a white elephant to anyone but The Villages developer. There is nothing about Wildwood that would attract either businesses or residents, except for being part of The Villages community. If another developer started some mixed-use projects, I would expect low occupancy rates, incomplete projects, and eventual developer bankrupcy.

Look no further than the empty Irish pub property on highway 44 across from Brownwood. It's ridiculous that no other bar-restaurant re-opened at that prime location.

[graciegirl]

So you think your getting your tax money worth? Public schools IMO in failing business model which all the fixes are raise school tax. Less school days more school breaks model is not working still have dumbing down compared to even third world schooling. India and China have better educated students with way less money spent. Money not the answer all the time IMO. Our system broke and will continue to be broke. Trillions can't fix it. All that does is raise superintendent salaries.

It was a joke, son. The chicken was making a joke.

[shcisamax]

The residents of Wildwood become the real losers here....all thanks to the misguided leaders of their city.
isn't that the way it always is with government....

[justjim]

Those who think Wildwood blew it must think that money trumps simplicity, less congestion, or rural surroundings. Maybe the Wildwood citizens are happy the way things are in their community. Maybe they don't want the crowds and traffic that comes with endless "progress". Maybe they live here because they wanted a rural lifestyle. Honestly, I'm glad that the developer withdrew. I think the building strategy is getting out of hand. It is already very crowded in that area, and 800 new homes is a lot of people. I know some will think I'm selfish, and that's alright. I do believe the land owner and the developer have the right to develop the property. I'm just saying, for me, I hope it doesn't happen.

This piece of real estate will be developed because of its location. If not by the Villages Developer, somebody else. Who do you think would do the best job? Cities and towns across the country would love to have the same opportunity that is offered to Wildwood. Greatly increase your tax base and not increase your schools enrollment by a single student. That is a deal! :eclipsee_gold_cup:

[Bonanza]

Wildwood no thank you.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii199/The_Villages/Wildwood3.jpg


Huh?
What's that all about???

[Bonanza]

But I'm sure these "family members" don't complain when they come inside The Villages for some of their entertainment, shopping, eating etc.
Hmmmmm...............


And what makes you think these "family members" come here for their "entertainment, shopping, eating, etc.?"

I live here. I don't even shop here, hardly ever go to the squares for entertainment and we mostly eat outside of TV. I have a feeling those family members don't come here for that.

Hmmmmm . . . A little presumptuous on your part.

[Bonanza]

Whether it resembles a city or not, the reality is that is is not one, any more than Recreation Plantation on 466 is. Both are organized businesses providing housing and amenities / activities. Yet I would be highly surprised to see anyone at Recreation Plantation going to great lengths to tell the ownership how to run the park, what and where to build, dispute their right to add or remove attractions (like the buffalo, Katie Belle's, etc. :shrug:) ,and otherwise how to put their financial investment at risk. And even if they tried, the ownership there would probably tell them (and rightfully so) that if they don't like and appreciate the business proposal, maybe it would be best for everyone if they moved on to another place that fit their needs and wants. After all, Recreation Plantation does a robust business. So does the Villages. I think both business principals know what's best for their own operation.

We all move here knowing (or should know) that there is no mayor and council government at The Villages. Anyone who landed here without understanding that needs a history lesson.

An excellent post. Bingo and right on the money.

Anyone who has ever lived in a "city" should know that TV is not a city and I'm sure, never can or will be.

[twoplanekid]

An excellent post. Bingo and right on the money.

Anyone who has ever lived in a "city" should know that TV is not a city and I'm sure, never can or will be.

It is yet to be determined.

I find it interesting that the people who suggest that the developer runs TV as a business are taking the same position as the IRS in the Bond case. While our TV attorneys claim that the Villages are operated under CDD rules that allow elected officials to govern.

[villagetinker]

Look no further than the empty Irish pub property on highway 44 across from Brownwood. It's ridiculous that no other bar-restaurant re-opened at that prime location.

There was a news article recently, indicating that property was sold, and there will be a strip mall in that location. It is my understanding that part of the problem with O'Shays was the lack of golf cart access.

[looneycat]

An excellent post. Bingo and right on the money.

Anyone who has ever lived in a "city" should know that TV is not a city and I'm sure, never can or will be.

I've lived in several cities and as far as the daily experience of inhabitants, this is a city. If you are referring to the governing of the villages, it is different, but it is driven by what makes financial sense...unlike most cities.

[JoMar]

I agree with most of your assessment.

But while TV is definitely a business, it is also a CDD. To simply state that TV is a business and not a city is a bit simplistic. While a CDD is not technically a city, it is definitely more than just a business, and resembles a city in many ways.

Plus, whether it's technically accurate or not, I think most residents living here, shopping here, socializing here and having fun here would say TV much more closely resembles a city than just a business.

I think this mixes apples and oranges a bit. The business model applies to the Developer not to the CDD's. The CDD's are government entities authorized by the State of FL and are run like most government's with the exception that our CDD's work closely together through the sharing of central resources.

[Bogie Shooter]

So you think your getting your tax money worth? Public schools IMO in failing business model which all the fixes are raise school tax. Less school days more school breaks model is not working still have dumbing down compared to even third world schooling. India and China have better educated students with way less money spent. Money not the answer all the time IMO. Our system broke and will continue to be broke. Trillions can't fix it. All that does is raise superintendent salaries.

A result of money being siphoned off to private, religious and underperforming charter schools.......................
and not to forget reduction of state funding being diverted to certain governers private projects.

[2BNTV]

By all related reportage, it was not Wildwood, but The Villages, which took the final stand. A fair and equitable proposal was made by the Developer. When the Mayor of Wildwood thought the deal was "in the bag", he overestimated his position of strength in the negotiations and tried to extort unreasonable last-minute concessions. It was a common, rather foolish, error of judgment.

Unless the Mayor has a rabbit somewhere in his tiny bag of tricks, this faux pas will cost the citizens and businesses of Wildwood dearly. Hope he has his resume in order.

:agree: I think the Mayor of Wildwood, overplayed his hand. I agree his posturing may cost Wildwood dearly. If taxes would have been 2K per home, Wildwood would lose 1.6 million per year, not to mention all of the jobs that would have been created.

The developer would have built something far better, than Wildwood would have. IMHO

[joldnol]

A result of money being siphoned off to private, religious and underperforming charter schools.......................
and not to forget reduction of state funding being diverted to certain governers private projects.

Don't confuse them with the facts Bogie.....the lottery was voted in as a means of enhancing public ed. The legislature took the lottery money and reduced educations share from the general fund.....

[Grandfinch]

:agree: I think the Mayor of Wildwood, overplayed his hand. I agree his posturing may cost Wildwood dearly. If taxes would have been 2K per home, Wildwood would lose 1.6 million per year, not to mention all of the jobs that would have been created.

The developer would have built something far better, than Wildwood would have. IMHO

A big yes to this post. Typical greed drove this mayor to go for gold, and now may have lost both silver and bronze.

[Grandfinch]

:agree: I think the Mayor of Wildwood, overplayed his hand. I agree his posturing may cost Wildwood dearly. If taxes would have been 2K per home, Wildwood would lose 1.6 million per year, not to mention all of the jobs that would have been created.

The developer would have built something far better, than Wildwood would have. IMHO

/////

[janmcn]

:agree: I think the Mayor of Wildwood, overplayed his hand. I agree his posturing may cost Wildwood dearly. If taxes would have been 2K per home, Wildwood would lose 1.6 million per year, not to mention all of the jobs that would have been created.

The developer would have built something far better, than Wildwood would have. IMHO


Aren't those taxes paid to Sumter County, and then the county disperses the funds?

If the residents of Wildwood had any input, they probably would prefer a 24 hour Super Wal-Mart on that corner.

[redwitch]

I'm not that convinced that wildwood has lost all that much. They already get a nice slice of the pie from Pinellas and the houses that are actually in wildwood. For any added income (most of which will go to the county and be disbursed as it sees fit), wildwood would basically lose in any election in which the town residents want one thing and TV residents want another. That may be more important in the long run. Sooner or later, someone will develop that land, who remains to be seen.

[champion6]

I'm not that convinced that wildwood has lost all that much. <snip> Sooner or later, someone will develop that land, who remains to be seen.Most people are forgetting that the commercial development known as Trailwinds Village was already approved by Wildwood. Trailwinds Village website (http://www.trailwindsvillage.com) If The Villages of Wildwood had come to fruition, Trailwinds would have sold about 50 acres (the northern part) of the 150 total to The Villages. As it is now, it's completely feasible that Trailwinds will resume steps to develop all 150 acres.

[billethkid]

Someday....maybe!

[NYGUY]

Aren't those taxes paid to Sumter County, and then the county disperses the funds?

No, property taxes on homes within the Incorporated City of Wildwood go to the city....Sumter County levies additional taxes on top of that!!

[mulligan]

Aren't those taxes paid to Sumter County, and then the county disperses the funds?

If the residents of Wildwood had any input, they probably would prefer a 24 hour Super Wal-Mart on that corner.

If you look at the conceptual plan already approved and in place with the proper zoning, there is actually a "big box retail store" near that corner.

[Meddick]

So you think your getting your tax money worth? Public schools IMO in failing business model which all the fixes are raise school tax. Less school days more school breaks model is not working still have dumbing down compared to even third world schooling. India and China have better educated students with way less money spent. Money not the answer all the time IMO. Our system broke and will continue to be broke. Trillions can't fix it. All that does is raise superintendent salaries.

I do not know much about schools in China, but I have a real problem with the statement that schools in India are much better than in the US. Having lived in India for almost 5 years, I was able to learn about the public schools. Many are not much more than day care centers. Some do not even have books available.

Even the working poor struggle mightily to save up the tuition to send their children to private schools.

Yes, there is a need for improvements in parts of the US education system, but I strongly recommend against using India's schools systems as a model.

[Yorio]

Am disappointed that there won't be 800 more homes and new rec center as well as golf courses built. For those who want Costco or Trader Joe's built near our area, big business think of traffic before making decisions. Too bad.

[villagetinker]

The previous project (Trailwinds?) seemed to be a good balance, this was before we moved here, so I am not very familiar with the details. It seemed to balance commercial with homes, but when I looked at the previously posted link, I did not notice golf cart access. I really think this is an item that needs to be addressed in any plan for this parcel.

But as mentioned before we need to be careful what we wish for, we might get it!

[Mikeod]

The previous project (Trailwinds?) seemed to be a good balance, this was before we moved here, so I am not very familiar with the details. It seemed to balance commercial with homes, but when I looked at the previously posted link, I did not notice golf cart access. I really think this is an item that needs to be addressed in any plan for this parcel.

But as mentioned before we need to be careful what we wish for, we might get it!
You will not see golf cart access to Trailwinds from TV because access from TV invites access from outside TV.. The developer has established that access for golf carts from outside TV is not desired. It was an early sticking point in the Fruitland Park negotiations that ended with no access from Fruitland Park. The infamous wall was another attempt to block outside access via golf cart, now replaced by a gate requiring a Villages gate pass.

[villagetinker]

You will not see golf cart access to Trailwinds from TV because access from TV invites access from outside TV.. The developer has established that access for golf carts from outside TV is not desired. It was an early sticking point in the Fruitland Park negotiations that ended with no access from Fruitland Park. The infamous wall was another attempt to block outside access via golf cart, now replaced by a gate requiring a Villages gate pass.

Ah, yes you are correct, I was coming from having the developer essentially do the Trailwinds project, or something similar, so it was under their control, but that gets back to the golf cart issue. Dose not matter to me as I use a car to get around.

[zonerboy]

Please note that the proposed 800 home development The Villages wished to build on part of this now vacant land would also have severe golf cart access problems (or perhaps I should say golf cart exit problems). Those purchasing homes in this area would be essentially completely isolated from other areas of The Villages, at least as far as golf cart travel is concerned. The is no provision for cart crossing across 466A to Pinellas shopping, doctors offices, golf corses, etc. There is no provision for access to multi modal paths along Buena Vista Blvd. And there is is no depicted route providing access to adjacent already existing areas of The Villages such as Tamarind Grove or St Charles. Very poorly planned in my opinion.

[Mikeod]

Please note that the proposed 800 home development The Villages wished to build on part of this now vacant land would also have severe golf cart access problems (or perhaps I should say golf cart exit problems). Those purchasing homes in this area would be essentially completely isolated from other areas of The Villages, at least as far as golf cart travel is concerned. The is no provision for cart crossing across 466A to Pinellas shopping, doctors offices, golf corses, etc. There is no provision for access to multi modal paths along Buena Vista Blvd. And there is is no depicted route providing access to adjacent already existing areas of The Villages such as Tamarind Grove or St Charles. Very poorly planned in my opinion.
Not accurate. The plans show a cart path through the north part of the proposed village exiting through the Tamarind Grove mail station area into that village and then to the rest of TV.

[CFrance]

Not accurate. The plans show a cart path through the north part of the proposed village exiting through the Tamarind Grove mail station area into that village and then to the rest of TV.
And that will make an already bad traffic situation at the TG postal station even worse.

[zonerboy]

Not accurate. The plans show a cart path through the north part of the proposed village exiting through the Tamarind Grove mail station area into that village and then to the rest of TV.

So if a resident of this new village wanted to drive their cart over to Winn Dixie (a couple of hundred yards away) to pick up a half gallon of milk, they could go thru the Tamarind Grove postal station, over to Tamarind Grove Run, take it down to St Charles, follow it down to Buena Vista, get on the multi modal path and take the tunnel under Buena Vista, continue thru Turtle Mound exec course to the tunnel under 466A, follow the path back to Buena Vista, then turn south on the path down to Pinellas and go thru the tunnel under Buena Vista again and follow Pinellas on down for a mile or so just before it ends at 466A, turn left into the strip mall, and there you are at Winn Dixie. I stand by my opinion. Very poorly planned.

[handyman]

Ta Daa ! A new bridge spanning 466a ;) !

[villagetinker]

So if a resident of this new village wanted to drive their cart over to Winn Dixie (a couple of hundred yards away) to pick up a half gallon of milk, they could go thru the Tamarind Grove postal station, over to Tamarind Grove Run, take it down to St Charles, follow it down to Buena Vista, get on the multi modal path and take the tunnel under Buena Vista, continue thru Turtle Mound exec course to the tunnel under 466A, follow the path back to Buena Vista, then turn south on the path down to Pinellas and go thru the tunnel under Buena Vista again and follow Pinellas on down for a mile or so just before it ends at 466A, turn left into the strip mall, and there you are at Winn Dixie. I stand by my opinion. Very poorly planned.

WELL SAID,:agree: this is exactly the point I have posted a few times. I knew the path would be long, but this is ridiculous. People in these homes will have to use cars to get around, or skirt the law and cross 466a at Powell or Pinellas, a potential disaster. I hope all of the parties can get together on a more sensible plan.

[ROCKETMAN]

I am glad wildwood stood their ground and asked for some concessions from the villages. In the end both sides will give a little and we will have have 785 more homes and 1200 more people. With a population of 115,000, only concern would be another tunnel under 466a. The one by colony will be crowded enough with fruitland park residents.

[CFrance]

WELL SAID,:agree: this is exactly the point I have posted a few times. I knew the path would be long, but this is ridiculous. People in these homes will have to use cars to get around, or skirt the law and cross 466a at Powell or Pinellas, a potential disaster. I hope all of the parties can get together on a more sensible plan.
I believe what "all of the parties" means is that the developers will have to decide to spend the money to build a tunnel under 466A. And they have not been doing that for convenience sake down in these parts.

[memason]

An easier solution would be to lobby the city/county to allow golf carts to cross 466a at the intersection. In my opinion, there's no good argument for why carts can't cross at controlled intersections anyway.

[dbussone]

What is a half cart?

[memason]

What is a half cart?

A typo'd Golf Cart....thanks for the catch!

[CFrance]

An easier solution would be to lobby the city/county to allow golf carts to cross 466a at the intersection. In my opinion, there's no good argument for why carts can't cross at controlled intersections anyway.
That is a great idea.

[dbussone]

A typo'd Golf Cart....thanks for the catch!

I learn new things every day on TOTV, so I was prepared for another.

[dbussone]

I learn new things every day on TOTV, so I was prepared for another.

All non-dietary of course.

[Bogie Shooter]

So if a resident of this new village wanted to drive their cart over to Winn Dixie (a couple of hundred yards away) to pick up a half gallon of milk, they could go thru the Tamarind Grove postal station, over to Tamarind Grove Run, take it down to St Charles, follow it down to Buena Vista, get on the multi modal path and take the tunnel under Buena Vista, continue thru Turtle Mound exec course to the tunnel under 466A, follow the path back to Buena Vista, then turn south on the path down to Pinellas and go thru the tunnel under Buena Vista again and follow Pinellas on down for a mile or so just before it ends at 466A, turn left into the strip mall, and there you are at Winn Dixie. I stand by my opinion. Very poorly planned.

Take your car....................

[CFrance]

Take your car....................
That is a ridiculous idea to some!

[ricklowe]

Wildwood has over 1,000 homes currently under construction that are not part of the villages by refusing to cave to the villages demands it shows other developers that they have a chance to compete. The villages may be the best in the business but that doesn't mean there aren't other very competent developers ready to step in.

[graciegirl]

Wildwood has over 1,000 homes currently under construction that are not part of the villages by refusing to cave to the villages demands it shows other developers that they have a chance to compete. The villages may be the best in the business but that doesn't mean there aren't other very competent developers ready to step in.


We drove south down Rolling Acres and turned past a new development that folks had talked about. Not much goin' on.......few BIG houses.

No matter what, if it's a plus 55, it will be an also ran.

There are not a lot of jobs here in this area to support families.

I think that I have me figured out. I am a Villager and I support my team.

I think Wildwood shot themselves in the foot.

[ricklowe]

There are almost 500 homes going in on 472 and 1/2 mile off of hwy 301. 585 homes on 301 and 466, 770 homes ,600+ apartments and 220,000 ft of retail space on the corner of 301 and 472 (Oxford oaks development not started yet) I think theres over 100 on 301 and peppertree lane as well and thousands more in the development stage.

I understand that you're rooting for your teem as a matter of fact i beleave we're on the same team. I just don't beleave it has to be one sided.

[kstew43]

I'm not that convinced that wildwood has lost all that much. They already get a nice slice of the pie from Pinellas and the houses that are actually in wildwood. For any added income (most of which will go to the county and be disbursed as it sees fit), wildwood would basically lose in any election in which the town residents want one thing and TV residents want another. That may be more important in the long run. Sooner or later, someone will develop that land, who remains to be seen.


:bigbow:

[jflynn1]

My understanding is that the City of Wildwood has rules and regulations that The Villages Developer could not or would not abide by. The Developer wanted to play by their rules. I am sure another builder will come along and develop the property. The taxpayers don't loose.

[graciegirl]

My understanding is that the City of Wildwood has rules and regulations that The Villages Developer could not or would not abide by. The Developer wanted to play by their rules. I am sure another builder will come along and develop the property. The taxpayers don't loose.

It is the TONE here that bothers me.

WHY should The Villages do things their way, when the Morse's way is such a proven success. We don't have sidewalks, big whoopty do.

When you are a proven success, why change?

I would rather have more of The Villages next door than anyone else.

Morse envy liveth.

[CFrance]

It is the TONE here that bothers me.

WHY should The Villages do things their way, when the Morse's way is such a proven success. We don't have sidewalks, big whoopty do.

When you are a proven success, why change?

I would rather have more of The Villages next door than anyone else.

Morse envy liveth.
Personally, I don't want that development there. They are too cheap to put a tunnel under 466A to give direct access to Pinellas and would make those residents bring their carts all the way back through the Tamarind Grove pool area, which is the most beautiful pool/postal park in TV. There are many old live oaks and beautiful landscaping, and the pool is so private. The wind rustling through there makes for a gorgeous, tranquil site. Not a house can be seen from that pool. If they rip that apart to put a golf cart path through it, I will be sorely ticked off. And they've demonstrated in the Fruitland Park area that they think nothing of taking down healthy live oaks. They could ruin that park in an afternoon, not to mention drive down housing values around there. Because Tamarind Grove Run will be inundated with traffic it was never meant to accommodate, and turning left from TGRun onto St. Charles will be more of a nightmare than it is now in the winter.

My hope is that this is a done deal and the developer will not bring it back up after the current mayor is out of office. But I fear that is not the case.

[outlaw]

I don't understand the resentment towards those who think Wildwood did not lose anything because the Morses pulled out of the deal. The derogatory comments regarding Wildwood and it's citizens is downright rude. How about being happy to live in the villages, and just respect those who don't live here?

[Barboza]

We who already live in Tamarind Grove do this already! I would love direct access by cart to Pinellas shopping but that would allow outsiders to access our multi modal paths & who do you suppose would pay for the repairs following excess usage?
Incidentally the plans for Trailwinds were approved 3 yrs ago but no sod has been turned as yet & I understand there is no interest in it currently.

[CFrance]

We who already live in Tamarind Grove do this already! I would love direct access by cart to Pinellas shopping but that would allow outsiders to access our multi modal paths & who do you suppose would pay for the repairs following excess usage?
Incidentally the plans for Trailwinds were approved 3 yrs ago but no sod has been turned as yet & I understand there is no interest in it currently.
I am talking about the 800 extra golf carts that would be coming through Tamarind Grove, and the possible taking down of trees to bring that cart path through the TG pool park.

If they want to add 800 additional houses, the traffic should have its own routing and not come through our tiny neighborhood.

And the people in those houses would have to go around their elbows to get to their noses, just to get to a grocery store and pharmacy. Can't think that would be a big draw for them. A cart tunnel under 466A into Pinellas... How would that allow non Villagers onto TV cart paths? I don't think Wildwood has any carts.

[rustyp]

I am talking about the 800 extra golf carts that would be coming through Tamarind Grove, and the possible taking down of trees to bring that cart path through the TG pool park.

If they want to add 800 additional houses, the traffic should have its own routing and not come through our tiny neighborhood.

And the people in those houses would have to go around their elbows to get to their noses, just to get to a grocery store and pharmacy. Can't think that would be a big draw for them. A cart tunnel under 466A into Pinellas... How would that allow non Villagers onto TV cart paths? I don't think Wildwood has any carts.

Is this any different situation than all 100 thousand residents going through the neighborhood on the historic side to access Lowes and Walmart through the Berlin Wall plus trying to keep outsiders out?

[dbussone]

Is this any different situation than all 100 thousand residents going through the neighborhood on the historic side to access Lowes and Walmart through the Berlin Wall plus trying to keep outsiders out?


I've never gone to Lowes or Walmart (441) in a golf cart. And I suspect the vast majority of the 100k don't use carts to get there. I know 1 person who uses his cart.

[Barboza]

There is already a precedent with up to 1800 carts a day going through Azteca Loop cutting into Savannah Centre to access the shopping at Southern Trace then South towards Brownwood & all places in between.
Also permits access out towards Nancy Lopez & Mulberry.
Lots of people travelling quite long distances to golf courses, Rec centres & shopping.
Maybe a couple of trees would have to be removed to accomodate cart path but the Villages always do their best to retain trees whenever possible.
I agree that TGR St. Charles junction would require some traffic control, but that is not beyond management.
I believe that the Villages plan would have been the best we could have had.
Lets not be NIMBY's
Wildwood may already have a golf cart ordinance.

[applesoffh]

I honestly believe that TV building on that property will eventually come to pass. Everyone's trying to save face; the Developer won't bend and neither will the Wildwood governing body, but business owners in Wildwood should be putting pressure on the powers to be. Only time will tell. I certainly don't believe for a minute that we are near build-out. This is just my opinion.

[EnglishJW]

Your question made me curious so I googled: Wildwood FL city limits map.

turns out that your area and most of TV south of 466a is NOT included, while the parcel in question and Pinellas Plaza is.

Interesting. Sorry...cant post the link but youll find it if you google it.

Wildwood, FL :: Boundary Map and Geodata for the City of Wildwood in Florida, U.S.A. :: MapTechnica (http://www.maptechnica.com/us-city-boundary-map/city/Wildwood/state/FL/cityid/1277675)

[CFrance]

There is already a precedent with up to 1800 carts a day going through Azteca Loop cutting into Savannah Centre to access the shopping at Southern Trace then South towards Brownwood & all places in between.
Also permits access out towards Nancy Lopez & Mulberry.
Lots of people travelling quite long distances to golf courses, Rec centres & shopping.
Maybe a couple of trees would have to be removed to accomodate cart path but the Villages always do their best to retain trees whenever possible.
I agree that TGR St. Charles junction would require some traffic control, but that is not beyond management.
I believe that the Villages plan would have been the best we could have had.
Lets not be NIMBY's
Wildwood may already have a golf cart ordinance.
There were several beautiful live oaks in the Fruitland Park development. One day they were all gone. Poof. Maybe in the past they tried to save them.

People are traveling long, indirect distances because not enough tunnels are being provided, so they have no choice. If I were really committed to traveling everywhere in a golf cart, I would not buy in those areas. In this particular case, it's really inexcusable, IMO. The developers always say the goods and services will come to the new areas. In this case it's already there, across the street. Yet they would have to go miles out of their way to access it. What are they thinking? It has to be a dollar thing.

[EnglishJW]

Maybe a couple of trees would have to be removed to accomodate cart path but the Villages always do their best to retain trees whenever possible.


I appreciate everything TV is and all that the developer has done but I don't feel they "always do their best to retain trees." We love going up Buena Vista to Lake Sumter Landing just to drive through an area with all those lovely old trees.

[janmcn]

There were several beautiful live oaks in the Fruitland Park development. One day they were all gone. Poof. Maybe in the past they tried to save them.

People are traveling long, indirect distances because not enough tunnels are being provided, so they have no choice. If I were really committed to traveling everywhere in a golf cart, I would not buy in those areas. In this particular case, it's really inexcusable, IMO. The developers always say the goods and services will come to the new areas. In this case it's already there, across the street. Yet they would have to go miles out of their way to access it. What are they thinking? It has to be a dollar thing.


IMO: people move here and they have no idea how to get from point A to point B. They see their new house and they see the shopping and don't realize what a circuitous route they must take to get there. The salespeople probably don't explain it to them, unless asked. Just my opinion.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

I appreciate everything TV is and all that the developer has done but I don't feel they "always do their best to retain trees." We love going up Buena Vista to Lake Sumter Landing just to drive through an area with all those lovely old trees.

I often wonder if people that feel this way would love to look at that lovely old trees if they were dumping their crap all over their roof and yard and preventing grass from growing on their lawns.

As far as I'm concerned, those trees should be restricted to parks and other undeveloped areas and be kept out of residential areas. They ruin homes and home sites. I looked at several nice homes before I bought and as soon as I saw on of those trees I walked away.

They are also no bargain for other residents on the same street or block.

I agree, it's very nice to take a walk through some of the parks and look at these huge trees, but I would not want one within 100 yards of my house.

[rustyp]

I've never gone to Lowes or Walmart (441) in a golf cart. And I suspect the vast majority of the 100k don't use carts to get there. I know 1 person who uses his cart.

And I have never gone to Pinellas Plaza by golf cart. And I suspect the vast majority of the 100K have not also. The point was why would it be OK for one neighborhood VS another? There are many situations in The Villages where major golf cart traffic cuts through neighborhoods.

[dbussone]

And I have never gone to Pinellas Plaza by golf cart. And I suspect the vast majority of the 100K have not also. The point was why would it be OK for one neighborhood VS another? There are many situations in The Villages where major golf cart traffic cuts through neighborhoods.


I agree. But it usually involves major roads rather than smaller neighborhood streets.

[rustyp]

I agree. But it usually involves major roads rather than smaller neighborhood streets.

Not true at all. I can name a multitude of places right off the top of my head. Here is one - the villa neighborhood right behind the Savanah center where there is a cut from that neighborhood into the Savanah parking lot to get to the tunnel. There are many places like that in The Villages.

[CFrance]

Not true at all. I can name a multitude of places right off the top of my head. Here is one - the villa neighborhood right behind the Savanah center where there is a cut from that neighborhood into the Savanah parking lot to get to the tunnel. There are many places like that in The Villages.
Name one that takes 800 golf carts miles out of their way through a tiny neighborhood to double back to get to a shopping plaza they could have built a tunnel to. I'm glad you're so knowledgeable about numerous small neighborhoods in TV, but I invite you to come over to the Tamarind Grove Pool/postal center and check out the havoc this would cause.

And I'm done.

[CFrance]

I often wonder if people that feel this way would love to look at that lovely old trees if they were dumping their crap all over their roof and yard and preventing grass from growing on their lawns.

As far as I'm concerned, those trees should be restricted to parks and other undeveloped areas and be kept out of residential areas. They ruin homes and home sites. I looked at several nice homes before I bought and as soon as I saw on of those trees I walked away.

They are also no bargain for other residents on the same street or block.

I agree, it's very nice to take a walk through some of the parks and look at these huge trees, but I would not want one within 100 yards of my house.
I can understand people not wanting them in their yards, but you have to admit that the further south you go beyond 466A, the more the land was just automatically cleared to facilitate building. The TG park is a beautiful exception, and I was hoping they would save those few trees in the Fruitland Park section and design some postal stations or parks/pools around them. It doesn't take much imagination to do that. This mowing and clearing of the land harkens back to the way they used to build suburban housing developments in the '70s and '80s. We called it scrape and burn.

[CFrance]

I can understand people not wanting them in their yards, but you have to admit that the further south you go beyond 466A, the more the land was just automatically cleared to facilitate building. The TG park is a beautiful exception, and I was hoping they would save those few trees in the Fruitland Park section and design some postal stations or parks/pools around them. It doesn't take much imagination to do that. This mowing and clearing of the land harkens back to the way they used to build suburban housing developments in the '70s and '80s. We called it scrape and burn.
Oh, I said I was done. Whoops. Guess I wasn't.

[Mrs. Robinson]

I can understand people not wanting them in their yards, but you have to admit that the further south you go beyond 466A, the more the land was just automatically cleared to facilitate building. The TG park is a beautiful exception, and I was hoping they would save those few trees in the Fruitland Park section and design some postal stations or parks/pools around them. It doesn't take much imagination to do that. This mowing and clearing of the land harkens back to the way they used to build suburban housing developments in the '70s and '80s. We called it scrape and burn.

I blame the "scrape and burn" method on the county, although developers do what's easy and cost effective. They don't care what they take out as long as it's convenient for their "master plan.".

Counties need to have laws that protect these trees and they need to be marked. Developers who take them out anyway, need to be fined heavily and not just a simple slap on the wrist.

Even though trees must be planted in Fruitland Park according to code, the new trees will only have a caliper of, perhaps, 2-3 inches, not unlike a stick.
Once built, Fruitland Park will still look like a wasteland for a number of years until the trees mature.

[CFrance]

I blame the "scrape and burn" method on the county, although developers do what's easy and cost effective. They don't care what they take out as long as it's convenient for their "master plan.".

Counties need to have laws that protect these trees and they need to be marked. Developers who take them out anyway, need to be fined heavily and not just a simple slap on the wrist.

Even though trees must be planted in Fruitland Park according to code, the new trees will only have a caliper of, perhaps, 2-3 inches, not unlike a stick.
Once built, Fruitland Park will still look like a wasteland for a number of years until the trees mature.

And I do remember reading that one of the problems with Wildwood is that TV wanted to be exempt from their tree ordinance.

[rustyp]

Name one that takes 800 golf carts miles out of their way through a tiny neighborhood to double back to get to a shopping plaza they could have built a tunnel to. I'm glad you're so knowledgeable about numerous small neighborhoods in TV, but I invite you to come over to the Tamarind Grove Pool/postal center and check out the havoc this would cause.

And I'm done.

Thanks for the invite but I suggest you will get farther inviting your district rep to observe. As far as "name one" - I never counted golf carts using a cut. Besides what would I count - carts / hour, day week ? Surely all 800 aren't out there at the same time. The cut I mentioned is so bad they installed three speed bumps down the 3 block stretch of road. Does that count for naming something?

[Villageswimmer]

Name one that takes 800 golf carts miles out of their way through a tiny neighborhood to double back to get to a shopping plaza they could have built a tunnel to. I'm glad you're so knowledgeable about numerous small neighborhoods in TV, but I invite you to come over to the Tamarind Grove Pool/postal center and check out the havoc this would cause.

And I'm done.


I agree.

[justjim]

I often wonder if people that feel this way would love to look at that lovely old trees if they were dumping their crap all over their roof and yard and preventing grass from growing on their lawns.

As far as I'm concerned, those trees should be restricted to parks and other undeveloped areas and be kept out of residential areas. They ruin homes and home sites. I looked at several nice homes before I bought and as soon as I saw on of those trees I walked away.

They are also no bargain for other residents on the same street or block.

I agree, it's very nice to take a walk through some of the parks and look at these huge trees, but I would not want one within 100 yards of my house.

I agree. Big oaks/Magnolias are fine but not in my yard. We had several large trees in our yard 30 years ago but I was much younger then! :beer3:

[HimandMe]

I absolutely love the trees As well ..life in all its forms but not at any and all costs. Real problems need real solutions not endless complaining, take it to the powers that be.

And, if you hate beautiful big trees and the maintenance in the fall they may require, don't buy a home in that area...some here mentioned Fruitland Park was scalped of all its beauty.

[graciegirl]

I absolutely love the trees As well ..life in all its forms but not at any and all costs. Real problems need real solutions not endless complaining, take it to the powers that be.

And, if you hate beautiful big trees and the maintenance in the fall they may require, don't buy a home in that area...some here mentioned Fruitland Park was scalped of all its beauty.

I agree.

I love nature but I am not a tree hugger. In fact I support the pipeline.
I have learned in 75 years on this earth that we must be practical.

Fruitland Parks scalping will quickly grow into beauty. Those of us who have been here for several year can attest to how FAST bushes and trees grow.

They may not have tall oaks, but they will have beauty. There is all kinds of beautiful. Even an old woman can be beautiful. Sweetie told me that.

[CFrance]

Thanks for the invite but I suggest you will get farther inviting your district rep to observe. As far as "name one" - I never counted golf carts using a cut. Besides what would I count - carts / hour, day week ? Surely all 800 aren't out there at the same time. The cut I mentioned is so bad they installed three speed bumps down the 3 block stretch of road. Does that count for naming something?
You are making my case against the development of this land without providing adequate access & egress.

[dbussone]

I agree.

I love nature but I am not a tree hugger. In fact I support the pipeline.
I have learned in 75 years on this earth that we must be practical.

Fruitland Parks scalping will quickly grow into beauty. Those of us who have been here for several year can attest to how FAST bushes and trees grow.

They may not have tall oaks, but they will have beauty. There is all kinds of beautiful. Even an old woman can be beautiful. Sweetie told me that.

Your sweetie is a wise man, and a keeper.

[zendog3]

I don't recall the details but I read that long ago when TV set up partly in Lady Lake a dispute arose between the city of Lady Lake and TV. The dispute was resolved when TV stacked the town council with Village residents, kicked out the Lady Lake members and resolved the issue to the satisfaction of TV.

The Mayor of Wildwood may be wrong, but he has a point. If Wildwood opens the door to TV even a crack, the tail will soon be wagging the dog. If he let that many Village homes in Wildwood, the character of Wildwood would not long be independently determined by Wildwood residents. You know that those Villagers wold always be thinking of themselves as Villagers not members of the city of Wildwood.

[Grandfinch]

I don't recall the details but I read that long ago when TV set up partly in Lady Lake a dispute arose between the city of Lady Lake and TV. The dispute was resolved when TV stacked the town council with Village residents, kicked out the Lady Lake members and resolved the issue to the satisfaction of TV.

The Mayor of Wildwood may be wrong, but he has a point. If Wildwood opens the door to TV even a crack, the tail will soon be wagging the dog. If he let that many Village homes in Wildwood, the character of Wildwood would not long be independently determined by Wildwood residents. You know that those Villagers wold always be thinking of themselves as Villagers not members of the city of Wildwood.

Wildwood Florida has been making decisions for themselves since 1877. Now, who should be in charge of the future of The Villages, them or us? I'm just sayin.

[outlaw]

Wildwood Florida has been making decisions for themselves since 1877. Now, who should be in charge of the future of The Villages, them or us? I'm just sayin.

Bumper sticker: "Welcome to Florida; but we don't care how you did it up north."

Or something like that.

[Oregon47]

Wildwood is giving up a potential $million plus in tax revenue a year. If the land goes undeveloped for a few more year, that is a significant lost to its citizens. The down town area needs to be cleaned up. The additional revenue could help.

[ROCKETMAN]

Any association with Wildwood changes The Village's demographics. We don't need a Village future that includes residents in a Village zip code with a propensity to riot, commit crime.. It is already happening in Brownwood and Spanish Springs
Be careful who you invite to the party...

Funny I have yet to see a riot in wildwood, Brownwood, or Spanish springs. Crime is everywhere and committed by every race and nationality, not all from wildwood.

[mickey100]

Funny I have yet to see a riot in wildwood, Brownwood, or Spanish springs. Crime is everywhere and committed by every race and nationality, not all from wildwood.

Thank you. The voice of reason. :bigbow:

[maru8]

Hooray for Wildwood!!!! The Villages is too damn big already!!!!

[Challenger]

Hooray for Wildwood!!!! The Villages is too damn big already!!!!

The Widwood property will be developed . A knee jerk reaction against TV will leave the oppurtunity for mxed use - commercial, multi family, mid or high rise appartments (posssibly section 8) and much more on this property. The possibility of greater population density is a real concern. So TV does not develop the site but the outcome creates more people , more traffic, more noise -on and on .What a great outcome.:MOJE_whot:

[outlaw]

The Widwood property will be developed . A knee jerk reaction against TV will leave the oppurtunity for mxed use - commercial, multi family, mid or high rise appartments (posssibly section 8) and much more on this property. The possibility of greater population density is a real concern. So TV does not develop the site but the outcome creates more people , more traffic, more noise -on and on .What a great outcome.:MOJE_whot:

Why do you say it was a knee jerk reaction against TV? My understanding is that Morse pulled out, not Wildwood. Wildwood was just sticking with their restrictions. Sounds like they were being consistent, not reacting. No one builds higher density than Morse. Likely any other development will be LESS homes, less traffic, and less noise. I'm glad Morse pulled out. Now the TV amenities won't be even more crowded.

[graciegirl]

Why do you say it was a knee jerk reaction against TV? My understanding is that Morse pulled out, not Wildwood. Wildwood was just sticking with their restrictions. Sounds like they were being consistent, not reacting. No one builds higher density than Morse. Likely any other development will be LESS homes, less traffic, and less noise. I'm glad Morse pulled out. Now the TV amenities won't be even more crowded.

I just learned what a Contrarian is, someone who enjoys bringing up...on the other hand such and such could/would/did happen. Sometimes called an outlaw.

Wildwood wasn't sticking with their restrictions, they were trying to accomplish what Fruitland Park couldn't. And they didn't.

So now they don't have what Fruitland Park has. Nice homes and a bigger tax base without having to spend money to build schools.

You have to get up MIGHTY early in the morning to get ahead of The Villages, Inc. They are MY team.

Go Villages. I like what you are doin' and what you aren't doin' too.

[CFrance]

I just learned what a Contrarian is, someone who enjoys bringing up...on the other hand such and such could/would/did happen. Sometimes called an outlaw.

Wildwood wasn't sticking with their restrictions, they were trying to accomplish what Fruitland Park couldn't. And they didn't.

So now they don't have what Fruitland Park has. Nice homes and a bigger tax base without having to spend money to build schools.

You have to get up MIGHTY early in the morning to get ahead of The Villages, Inc. They are MY team.

Go Villages. I like what you are doin' and what you aren't doin' too.
I like what they aren't doing too! Very much so. And the fact that they just sent something around claiming they are done building makes me even more hopeful.

[Challenger]

Why do you say it was a knee jerk reaction against TV? My understanding is that Morse pulled out, not Wildwood. Wildwood was just sticking with their restrictions. Sounds like they were being consistent, not reacting. No one builds higher density than Morse. Likely any other development will be LESS homes, less traffic, and less noise. I'm glad Morse pulled out. Now the TV amenities won't be even more crowded.

Apartments for one would add significantly more density .Mid rise condos, ditto. In both cases, more school rooms would be required by statute.

[dirtbanker]

Funny I have yet to see a riot in wildwood, Brownwood, or Spanish springs. Crime is everywhere and committed by every race and nationality, not all from wildwood.

I too have not seen any riots in the squares to date, but that does not mean we could not see one at some point. Evidently; all it takes is a police officer shooting an unarmed 18 year old guy (I believe that guy had punched the officer in the face, as the officer inquired about the theft the guy had committed at a convenience store a few minutes earlier, and then the guy charged at the officer while the officers weapon was drawn).

While crime might be committed everywhere and by every race and nationality, a person would need to bury their head in the sand not to realize; some places have more crime than others.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/08/13/us/ferguson-missouri-town-under-siege-after-police-shooting.html?_r=0

List of United States cities by crime rate (2012) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate_%282012 %29)

[outlaw]

I just learned what a Contrarian is, someone who enjoys bringing up...on the other hand such and such could/would/did happen. Sometimes called an outlaw.

Wildwood wasn't sticking with their restrictions, they were trying to accomplish what Fruitland Park couldn't. And they didn't.

So now they don't have what Fruitland Park has. Nice homes and a bigger tax base without having to spend money to build schools.

You have to get up MIGHTY early in the morning to get ahead of The Villages, Inc. They are MY team.

Go Villages. I like what you are doin' and what you aren't doin' too.

No need to denigrate someone who doesn't agree with your position. I know you think the villages is the end all be all, but some people think over development isn't progress. Life isn't all about money.

[Chi-Town]

No need to denigrate someone who doesn't agree with your position. I know you think the villages is the end all be all, but some people think over development isn't progress. Life isn't all about money.

I know there is concern about overdevelopment, but take a look around at Wildwood. How do you think the city fathers have done on their own? I am amazed how anyone could consider their plan to be better than one from The Villages. I know people like to root for the underdog, but the reasons that Wildwood is an underdog should be an eye opener.