High LDL Cholesterol Can't Take a Statin

[cordenny]

I was curious to hear from others what their doctors recommended for high cholesterol if you can't tolerate statins. My good cholesterol (HDL) is high, but my LDL is high also. I have low tryclycerides. I can't tolerate a statin because I get muscle weakness. My Dr. recommended Zetia but it is too expensive. My neighbor takes Niacin and that brought hers down. I am in great health and walk 5 miles a day. I often wonder about these cholesterol numbers.

[jnieman]

I was curious to hear from others what their doctors recommended for high cholesterol if you can't tolerate statins. My good cholesterol (HDL) is high, but my LDL is high also. I have low tryclycerides. I can't tolerate a statin because I get muscle weakness. My Dr. recommended Zetia but it is too expensive. My neighbor takes Niacin and that brought hers down. I am in great health and walk 5 miles a day. I often wonder about these cholesterol numbers.

I had the same issue. We tried every statin under the sun including non-generics. My cholesterol was 237 for years. Finally I did some reading on line and it recommended Zetia. I bit the bullet and tried it for 3 months. My cholesterol numbers had come down from 237 to 178. The doctor is thrilled and so am I. With my insurance it costs me $58.70 which is alot but it is my only alternative. I did see that without insurance it would be $270.

[leftyf]

My DR put me on Lipitor about 20 years ago and I refused to take it. If you walk everyday like you say, your diet is probably next. I take Metamucil twice a day and eat cheerios every morning. I also almost totally gave up beef. When I do eat it, I only eat NY Strip steaks or sirloins or lean burgers. I also eat lots of beans and peas. My cholesterol used to be in the 220's and is now about 170.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

First of all, there are some studies that are now showing that high LDL has nothing to do with heart disease. The problem comes from inflammation of the artery walls. This inflammation allows cholesterol to become embedded in the walls. Some people believe that and some don't which is fine. Most doctors have to go by what the AMA recommends these days. It's possible that we find that they've had wrong information.

A number of studies have also shown that there are very serious side effect to statin drugs, among which is early onset dementia. Again, some people believe that the cure is worse than the disease.

I take psyllium fiber (Metamucil) every day but I take only the sugar free variety. As far as eating Cherrios goes, I would be very cautious. Consuming food high in carbohydrates will raise you triglyceride levels which basically turn you r blood into sludge. The reason that Cherrios is recommended is because of the fiber. At one time oat bran muffins were recommended which was the dumbest thing ever. Muffins are filled with carbs, sugar and fat. The little bit of fiber that you'd get from them could not offset the damage done by the sugar and other carbs.

I have chosen not to take statins. This is my choice and I'm not recommending it for anyone. We all have to make our own choices based on the huge amount of conflicting information that is out there.

In my case, my triglycerides and LDL are so high that I feel that reducing them by the amount that a strong statin would, it wouldn't make enough difference to warrant the risk that comes with statin drugs.

I try to do my best to avoid, sugar and carbohydrates and I take my fiber every day. Because of all of the conflicting information out there, and much of it is economic and politically motivated, I find it very difficult to know exactly what to do. I've read many conflicting books on diet and they all seem to be written by doctors who know what they're talking about, but they can't seem to come to any agreement.

I think that many of these diets will work. Some people have gone vegan. That probably works very well, but as some of the proponents have admitted, it's very difficult. Some people will respond to that with, "I'm a vegan and it's easy". And that may be true, but it's easy for everyone. Most people like to go out to eat and spend time with friends and have a few drinks now and then.

The same thing for the paleo diet which has worked very well for some people. It's fine unless you love Italian food and want to have a bowl of pasta every once in a while.

Maybe some day after we're all gone, there will be definitive answers to all of this, but it hasn't happened yet and I don't think that it will happen in our lifetimes. Like I said, politics and economics are involved which makes it very difficult for the truth to come out even if it is known.

[blueash]

What is your family history? Did your father have an elevated cholesterol and live to 85 with no cardiac issue? Don't treat numbers in isolation. If you have a high HDL that is "protective" against the influence of a high LDL. None of this is clear cut and the understanding is evolving. Recently the recommended healthy lipid level was lowered.
From Mayo

For predicting your risk of heart disease, many doctors now believe that determining your non-HDL cholesterol level may be more useful than calculating your cholesterol ratio. (that is the total cholesterol/HDL) And either option appears to be a better risk predictor than your total cholesterol level or even your low-density lipoprotein (LDL, or "bad") cholesterol level.

To calculate your cholesterol ratio, divide your high-density lipoprotein (HDL, or "good") cholesterol number into your total cholesterol number. An optimal ratio is less than 3.5-to-1. A higher ratio means a higher risk of heart disease.


Non-HDL cholesterol, as its name implies, simply subtracts your HDL cholesterol number from your total cholesterol number. So it contains all the "bad" types of cholesterol.

An optimal level of non-HDL cholesterol is less than 130 milligrams per deciliter. Higher numbers mean a higher risk of heart disease.

Here is an interesting read which may not answer your question
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cholesterol-conundrum/

There are two studies mentioned pending, one on niacin, results are here:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/niacin-causes-serious-unexpected-side-effects-but-no-worthwhile-benefits-for-patients-who-are-at-increased-risk-of-heart-attacks-and-strokes-196686811.html

and one on zetia with a statin

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3712882/

As you will see while both niacin and zetia with statin produced better lab values they were both useless in improving patient outcome.

[rubicon]

As a number of poster pointed out the medical data is so confusing. what was bad yesterday is good today and vice a versa................

I had Target call to explain theatthe mfg of the statin I take was taking a survey if there were any memory difficulties/declines?

I read an article that indicated that statin increase one's chances of getting Type II diabetes by 46%

I called my Doc waiting for reply but in the past he always brushed off such criticisms

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[Richard1366]

My question is, Why would you ask people on this site?? Talk to a doctor, tell him/her your concerns. Let him recommend what you should do. Perhaps he could find a suitable medicine and he/she might know how you can get an effective medicine at a price to fit your budget.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

What is your family history? Did your father have an elevated cholesterol and live to 85 with no cardiac issue? Don't treat numbers in isolation. If you have a high HDL that is "protective" against the influence of a high LDL. None of this is clear cut and the understanding is evolving. Recently the recommended healthy lipid level was lowered.
From Mayo

For predicting your risk of heart disease, many doctors now believe that determining your non-HDL cholesterol level may be more useful than calculating your cholesterol ratio. (that is the total cholesterol/HDL) And either option appears to be a better risk predictor than your total cholesterol level or even your low-density lipoprotein (LDL, or "bad") cholesterol level.

To calculate your cholesterol ratio, divide your high-density lipoprotein (HDL, or "good") cholesterol number into your total cholesterol number. An optimal ratio is less than 3.5-to-1. A higher ratio means a higher risk of heart disease.


Non-HDL cholesterol, as its name implies, simply subtracts your HDL cholesterol number from your total cholesterol number. So it contains all the "bad" types of cholesterol.

An optimal level of non-HDL cholesterol is less than 130 milligrams per deciliter. Higher numbers mean a higher risk of heart disease.

Here is an interesting read which may not answer your question
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/cholesterol-conundrum/

There are two studies mentioned pending, one on niacin, results are here:
Niacin Causes Serious Unexpected Side-effects, but no Worthwhile Benefits, for Patients who... -- SAN FRANCISCO, March 9, 2013 /PRNewswire/ -- (http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/niacin-causes-serious-unexpected-side-effects-but-no-worthwhile-benefits-for-patients-who-are-at-increased-risk-of-heart-attacks-and-strokes-196686811.html)

and one on zetia with a statin

Ezetimibe in Combination With a Statin Does Not Reduce All-Cause Mortality (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3712882/)

As you will see while both niacin and zetia with statin produced better lab values they were both useless in improving patient outcome.

My family history is horrible. Major cardiac problems on both sides. My HDL is very low, my LDL is very high and my triglycerides are off the chart. I have been diagnosed with familial hypertriglyceridemia. My triglycerides routinely run into over 400.

I have coronary artery disease and have six stents. I'll probably be getting more and I don't think that bypass surgery is out of the question in the future.

But as I stated, there are some doctors, (cardiologists) that have come out to say that cholesterol is not the problem.

The thing is that my LDL is so high that reducing it by 20% or 25% would still leave it ridiculously high. So the question becomes are the risks of side effects of statins worth it to reduce my LDL to 300?

And as you have pointed out, often times better lab results don't improve patient outcome. Some studies have shown that people taking statins and successfully reducing their LDL have the same rate of heart attacks and other coronary problems as people who take nothing.

The problem is that if you read as much as I have about the subject, you end up not knowing what to believe. I also believe that pharmaceutical companies influence decisions made by doctors and the AMA. Politics can also be involved.
Doctors, especially cardiologists are simply following a protocol that is established by the AMA and other organizations. They have to be careful because if the go outside the recommended protocols, the risk being sued for malpractice.

Like I said, I think that everyone has to do what they think is best for them.

[dbussone]

I had the same issue. We tried every statin under the sun including non-generics. My cholesterol was 237 for years. Finally I did some reading on line and it recommended Zetia. I bit the bullet and tried it for 3 months. My cholesterol numbers had come down from 237 to 178. The doctor is thrilled and so am I. With my insurance it costs me $58.70 which is alot but it is my only alternative. I did see that without insurance it would be $270.


If you purchase a Walgreens loyalty card, and have no insurance, your price will generally decrease about 40%.

[Villager Joyce]

My question is, Why would you ask people on this site?? Talk to a doctor, tell him/her your concerns. Let him recommend what you should do. Perhaps he could find a suitable medicine and he/she might know how you can get an effective medicine at a price to fit your budget.

Thank you. I was getting ready to ask the same question when I saw your post.

[Abby10]

I was curious to hear from others what their doctors recommended for high cholesterol if you can't tolerate statins. My good cholesterol (HDL) is high, but my LDL is high also. I have low tryclycerides. I can't tolerate a statin because I get muscle weakness. My Dr. recommended Zetia but it is too expensive. My neighbor takes Niacin and that brought hers down. I am in great health and walk 5 miles a day. I often wonder about these cholesterol numbers.

The zetia website has a coupon that you can print and activate to help pay for your prescription. BUT here's the kicker - it will only work if you have private insurance. It will not work if you are on a Medicare plan or any government insurance plan, nor will it work if you are uninsured. So if you are privately insured for prescriptions this may be helpful.

[NotGolfer]

There's a functional medicine doctor here in T.V. who gives free talks at the various libraries from time to time. He's into a more "natural" way of addressing health. I've heard him several times, I've also done some reading re: health/cholesterol and our diets. Someone posted here that coronary artery disease is caused by inflammation and all of the above that I mentioned would cooraborate that idea. Back up until the late 80's the number 300 was considered "normal" for cholesterol. Then the drug companies begain making their drugs and saying how folks "needed" to take them. Since then they've continued to lower what they deem "normal". Why is this I have to wonder!???!! I choose not to take them despite what my practioner's tell me. I won't discuss it with them neither. I know there are 2 sides to this discussion but I know I can't take them. The muscles in my legs ache when I do. I say lower the carbs you eat and add more veggies and most folks' cholesterol improves. If you eat alot of sweets (in any form) you'll raise not only your glycemic levels but also your cholesterol #'s as well.

[Living a Fantasy]

Concerned about my weakening muscles and a general feeling of fatigue, I decided to stop my statin intake last August, 2014. Although my cholesterol levels became borderline, my strength and overall quality of life improved dramatically. I play softball, tennis, pickleball, and golf and feel great! I stopped statins after talking to three Village residents, who were diagnosed by their doctors as being cholesterol sensitive and taken off the medications.

Three references that you may want to check out that helped me with my decision to STOP statins follow:

The Truth about Statins – Years of research by cardiologist Dr. Barbara Roberts – Table of Contents of her book

The Truth About Statins: Risks and Alternatives to Cholesterol-Lowering Drugs by Barbara H. Roberts (http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/13260239-the-truth-about-statins)

==============================
Should you be Taking Statins? - Excellent video by Dr. Oz with easy to understand visuals

Should You Be Taking Statins?, Pt 1 - Controversial New Statin Guidelines | The Dr. Oz Show (http://www.doctoroz.com/episode/controversial-new-statin-guidelines?video_id=2859817309001)

======================================

Statin Drugs are Poison – a Youtube video by MIT Scientist, Raymond Francis

statin drugs are poison - Bing Videos (http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=statin+drugs+are+poison&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=83849039FA2784ED69FF83849039FA2784ED69FF)

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

There's a functional medicine doctor here in T.V. who gives free talks at the various libraries from time to time. He's into a more "natural" way of addressing health. I've heard him several times, I've also done some reading re: health/cholesterol and our diets. Someone posted here that coronary artery disease is caused by inflammation and all of the above that I mentioned would cooraborate that idea. Back up until the late 80's the number 300 was considered "normal" for cholesterol. Then the drug companies begin making their drugs and saying how folks "needed" to take them. Since then they've continued to lower what they deem "normal". Why is this I have to wonder!???!! I choose not to take them despite what my practioner's tell me. I won't discuss it with them neither. I know there are 2 sides to this discussion but I know I can't take them. The muscles in my legs ache when I do. I say lower the carbs you eat and add more veggies and most folks' cholesterol improves. If you eat alot of sweets (in any form) you'll raise not only your glycemic levels but also your cholesterol #'s as well.

I have found all of that to be true. What I also believe is that if you eat a lot of eggs, your HDL will rise much faster then your LDL.

I stated previously that I'm concerned about economic and political factors influencing doctors and their protocols. I too would like to know why the "normal" cholesterol level has been lowered over the years.

Who is this doctor your talking about? Is it Gabe Minkin? He's the guy you see everywhere riding the tandem bicycle with his wife. He also has a column on the online newspaper that we are forbidden to mention.

[Lauren Sweeny]

Read about Gugulipids they might help.....

[queasy27]

My doctor recommended 1000 mg of fish oil twice a day. My cholesterol and triglycerides are both down a bit but I've made other dietary changes so it's impossible to say.

I also declined to take statins any more, despite one doctor actually chasing me down the hall after I'd left his office to give me a pamphlet from a drug company extolling the "research" and benefits. Why take a drug that may or may not help a condition I may or may not get? There are multiple studies to support each side of the debate but what I know for sure is that I had burning pain in my thigh muscles and that they remain weak even I stopped the statins. Also? Thet didn't even work to bring my cholesterol down.

[looneycat]

I don't take medical advice from anyone but doctors I have vetted myself. I certainly don't take medical advice from hucksters like dr. oz who gives you 100 different 'cures' for the same ailment. I certainly don't take advice from a forum like totv.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

My doctor recommended 1000 mg of fish oil twice a day. My cholesterol and triglycerides are both down a bit but I've made other dietary changes so it's impossible to say.

I also declined to take statins any more, despite one doctor actually chasing me down the hall after I'd left his office to give me a pamphlet from a drug company extolling the "research" and benefits. Why take a drug that may or may not help a condition I may or may not get? There are multiple studies to support each side of the debate but what I know for sure is that I had burning pain in my thigh muscles and that they remain weak even I stopped the statins. Also? Thet didn't even work to bring my cholesterol down.

My cardiologist recommends 4,000 mg of fish oil daily. My primary care says it should be 3,000 so I take 3,600.

I was on Zetia a number of years ago My doctor back then described it as a "wimpy drug". If I'm not mistaken, it is usually prescribed to be taken in conjunction with a statin in cases where the LDL is extremely high and the stain alone doesn't lowered enough.

I also agree with your comments on . There is not enough statins in the world to bring my LDL down to a level that would be acceptable to the medical establishment. The I read that there have been studies that have shown that even in cases where the cholesterol has been lowered that there was no difference in the death rates of those taking statins and those not.
Statins do harm muscle tissue to a greater or lesser degree depending on the individual. In some cases atrophy of the muscles has occurred and they will not come back. In my case, I have a lot of arthritis throughout my body so it was difficult to tell if the statins were causing the pain or not.

[Lovey2]

My Dr at Village Health care just took me off the statins after I asked her about them and the side effects. She said they have a new way to measure if there was a need for statins called "the framingham test". It runs off several indices, like your weight, BP, smoker-non smoker, your cholesterol #'s and what it actually determines is your individual risk for a heart attack. My percentage was below 4%. So, I am off them for now. I have been on statins for over 10 years with no side effects that I am aware of, but who knows how I'll feel once I'm off them. Better, I hope. It was hard to remember my original "BAD" numbers for her to use on the test but I did my best. Anyway, many years ago a Doctor at the old practice I went to and only saw infrequently always seemed to favor the old remedies (Vicks vapor rub, hot tea and lemon, that kinda thing, he didn't like prescribing too much) and so he advised me to take red yeast rice for help with the cholesterol. I am back on that now, and I will see what happens. The statin is the only real medication I take and I'd be happy to be off it.
P.S. I may have paraphrased a bit here, but it's what I remember from the conversation with the doctor, if that helps any

[jnieman]

<<<I was on Zetia a number of years ago My doctor back then described it as a "wimpy drug". If I'm not mistaken, it is usually prescribed to be taken in conjunction with a statin in cases where the LDL is extremely high and the stain alone doesn't lowered enough.>>>

My doctor also though Zetia was a wimpy drug and wouldn't work for me, but I insisted on trying it. He put me on it 3 months ago 10 mg a day. My cholesterol numbers have gone from 237 to 178 in those three months. Worth a try.

[Lauren Sweeny]

Statins of any nature affects my muscles and liver. I too have been tweaked on a number of prescription . Now on non. Feel better

[jnieman]

Statins of any nature affects my muscles and liver. I too have been tweaked on a number of prescription . Now on non. Feel better

Just a little info I found about Zetia. Zetia does not make me ache all over like the statins do.


"Statins work mainly with your liver to help lower bad cholesterol. ZETIA is a cholesterol-lowering medicine that works differently than a statin. ZETIA works in the digestive tract, where it helps block the absorption of cholesterol from the food you eat."