" Innocent " Freddie Gray`s Contact with the Baltimore Police

[Guest]

Freddie Gray certainly did not deserve to die at police hands but, he sold deadly drugs to people in his community. Here is his record:

March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance

March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault

January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing

January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute

December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute

December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance

August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing

January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana

September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a
controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape

April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation

July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute

March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute

February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance

August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation

August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana

August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance

July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

Court records indicate that Gray's arrests were mostly for drug
possession/distribution charges and various minor crimes, many of which were not prosecuted. He had several cases scheduled for trial in the coming months. One case, involving charges for second-degree assault and malicious destruction of property, was scheduled for a June trial.

[Guest]

No one has said that Mr. Gray was a model citizen. He had no reason, though, to be arrested that night. The utility knife he was carrying was legal. Freddie is now deceased and his family is going to sue over his arrest and death. They will win milliions of dollars from Baltimore City.

The police officers involved will have tarnished records - even if they are not convicted of anything. Their police officer days basically ended that fateful night.

Baltimore cops have always had a reputation of being very tough on troublemakers. You reap what you sow.

[Guest]

No one has said that Mr. Gray was a model citizen. He had no reason, though, to be arrested that night. The utility knife he was carrying was legal. Freddie is now deceased and his family is going to sue over his arrest and death. They will win milliions of dollars from Baltimore City.

The police officers involved will have tarnished records - even if they are not convicted of anything. Their police officer days basically ended that fateful night.

Baltimore cops have always had a reputation of being very tough on troublemakers. You reap what you sow.


You're right about reaping what you sow.

Baltimore inner city has been a hellhole for years. Under 50 years of democrat mis-rule, it's steadily gotten worse. Cops who used to care about proactive policing will no longer give a s*** about doing that ...it's just too risky, especially when the people who need the protection don't seem to want it.

So, Sandtown will become even more of a hellhole, Al Sharpton will profit and the average member of the underclass will be screwed even more. Nice job.

[Guest]

According to one interview I saw with a Baltimore Police Officer who covered that Beat :
Mr. Gray was in an area that is a regular active hotbed for drug sales . The bicycle Cop saw Freddie conduct a " hand-off " with another person also known to the Police .
They believed that Freddie had just made a drug -sale so they chased him down . They believe that as he took off from the Cops that he dumped his stash of drugs and cash .
They referred to Freddie as a known drug dealer and a " frequent-flyer ". Also he was known to almost always " put on a show " as he was being pinched and often he got " Jailitis " meaning that he claimed to need medical attention in order to delay / avoid going directly to the slammer .
Could be that he cried " Wolf " once too often and was not being taken seriously .

[Guest]

Another outstanding citizen like trayvon

[Guest]

When you show me a man or women that is not a CAREER CRIMINAL I will be interested. This guy was a professional thief, trouble maker and drug dealers. He got his due and in my opinion, too late. Now some want to distroy the life's of six people that put their life on the line every day for us.

[Guest]

Liberal left is making this country worse every day. It's time for conservative. Get the democrats out . Their history shows deterioration of society. Just look back through history

[Guest]

[QUOTE=Guest;1055472]Liberal left is making this country worse every day. It's time for conservative. Get the democrats out . Their history shows deterioration of society. Just look back through history[/QUOTE

You have nailed it

[Guest]

Liberal left is making this country worse every day. It's time for conservative. Get the democrats out . Their history shows deterioration of society. Just look back through history

Does this rant remind anyone of any former world leader? Adolf Hitler, maybe?

Talk about the proverbial sick puppy.

it is repliers like him that give Republicans a bad name.

[Guest]

Do not forget that even though Freddie Gray was not a good, law abiding person, he did die while in police custody of a severed spine.

Freddie's family WILL cash in on many millions of dollars in a lawsuit. A previous victim of a "rough ride" got $39 million from Baltimore.

What say you to that? His family gets millions of dollars and the cops get booted off the force (probably) and a couple sent to the lockup.

[Guest]

When you show me a man or women that is not a CAREER CRIMINAL I will be interested. This guy was a professional thief, trouble maker and drug dealers. He got his due and in my opinion, too late. Now some want to distroy the life's of six people that put their life on the line every day for us.

that must be a post that was made to make the right look bad. no one can actually believe that he got his due and too late. do you really support cops killing petty criminals in the back of paddy wagons as a good policy and the sooner the better. can't be, you're trolling aren't you

[Guest]

that must be a post that was made to make the right look bad. no one can actually believe that he got his due and too late. do you really support cops killing petty criminals in the back of paddy wagons as a good policy and the sooner the better. can't be, you're trolling aren't you

I think you're missing the point I think the poster was getting at ...

Freddie was a lowlife criminal and he is now the hero. The cops, who stand between the civilized and the lawless, are now the bad guys. Do you see anything wrong with that?

It is completely unlikely that six cops conspired to do harm or "murder" Freddie. He banged his own head up and that is the most likely cause of his spinal / neck injury. He died about a week after the paddy wagon ride and after he underwent surgery.

WTF is wrong with you anyway?

[Guest]

I think you're missing the point I think the poster was getting at ...

Freddie was a lowlife criminal and he is now the hero. The cops, who stand between the civilized and the lawless, are now the bad guys. Do you see anything wrong with that?

It is completely unlikely that six cops conspired to do harm or "murder" Freddie. He banged his own head up and that is the most likely cause of his spinal / neck injury. He died about a week after the paddy wagon ride and after he underwent surgery.

WTF is wrong with you anyway?

Thank you so much for clarifying my meaning. I wish I would have been more clear.

[Guest]

Can you show me where that comment was made by Hitler or even if it were implied. I really would like to study that.

[Guest]

Was a toxicology exam done to determine if there were drugs in his system at the time of the arrest? I can't seem to find an answer to this question.

[Guest]

Was a toxicology exam done to determine if there were drugs in his system at the time of the arrest? I can't seem to find an answer to this question.

Declared in-admissible based on the potential to muddy up the plan.

[Guest]

Was a toxicology exam done to determine if there were drugs in his system at the time of the arrest? I can't seem to find an answer to this question.

I believe it was conducted and showed a mixture of heroin and marijuana in Freddie's system at the time of arrest .. I can't find the link though

[Guest]

And if he, and every other one of these idiots going back to Rodney King, had simply complied with the officers request and either not resisted or run, he would be alive today to continue to be the model citizen that he was.
I am so sick of all of the criticism of the police and everyone overlooking the fact that these morons caused a reaction from the police by not complying with the officer's request. Not sure I recall of one instance where the police simply walked up to someone and started shooting or attacking them without provocation.
Problem is these morons have no respect for authority and think they can do whatever they want without any fear.
It is real simple----cop says stop, you stop.
Maybe the community leaders ought to teach that to their folks!

[Guest]

I believe it was conducted and showed a mixture of heroin and marijuana in Freddie's system at the time of arrest .. I can't find the link though

Yeah, I thought I saw that at one point too, but can't seem to find the link now either. I'm thinking the previous poster may be right - an attempt to muddy up the plan, as that evidence could possibly explain A LOT about his behavior. Wouldn't it be nice to just have the TRUTH about this and other cases like it so that we can really make a fair and just assessment?

Another truth that I find being somewhat swept under the rug is that 3 of the 6 officers are black. The photos have been shown on a few occasions, but isn't it strange that it isn't part of the discussion? One guest on Meet the Press yesterday actually said that one of the problems is that these policeman are brought into the force and have never had to deal with blacks before becoming a police officer - WHAT??

[Guest]

And if he, and every other one of these idiots going back to Rodney King, had simply complied with the officers request and either not resisted or run, he would be alive today to continue to be the model citizen that he was.
I am so sick of all of the criticism of the police and everyone overlooking the fact that these morons caused a reaction from the police by not complying with the officer's request. Not sure I recall of one instance where the police simply walked up to someone and started shooting or attacking them without provocation.
Problem is these morons have no respect for authority and think they can do whatever they want without any fear.
It is real simple----cop says stop, you stop.
Maybe the community leaders ought to teach that to their folks!

It is only an issue because of the lack of education as pointed out above....driven by the leadership (or shall we say lack of it) by Obama and Sharpton and of course their trumpeters the media.

No sympathy here black, white or whatever flavor.....follow the law like the majority of us and the problem goes away.

[Guest]

And if he, and every other one of these idiots going back to Rodney King, had simply complied with the officers request and either not resisted or run, he would be alive today to continue to be the model citizen that he was.
I am so sick of all of the criticism of the police and everyone overlooking the fact that these morons caused a reaction from the police by not complying with the officer's request. Not sure I recall of one instance where the police simply walked up to someone and started shooting or attacking them without provocation.
Problem is these morons have no respect for authority and think they can do whatever they want without any fear.
It is real simple----cop says stop, you stop.
Maybe the community leaders ought to teach that to their folks!

Excellent post! It would at least be much easier for those of us seriously trying to make some sense out of all of these incidents, if the perps were not fleeing or fighting the police. In that case, I would have no problem taking the side of the perp/victim no matter his race, gender, drug background or anything else if he experienced a beat down by a policeman. The underlying problem in every one of these case is that the perp did not stand down.

[Guest]

Can anyone name the crime for which Freddie Gray was arrested for that night?

[Guest]

Can anyone name the crime for which Freddie Gray was arrested for that night?

It was my understanding from what I had read that they saw him do a "pass off" - I think that's what they called it - which meant that he was passing off drugs to another person in a supposed drug deal. It also stated in the article (sorry I don't have the link at this time) that they had thought he had thrown something into the bushes (again, supposedly drugs) and that's why he was being pursued and why they thought he was trying to get away by running from police.

[Guest]

Can anyone name the crime for which Freddie Gray was arrested for that night?

Freddie Gray was arrested for carrying a switchblade, which turned out not to be a switchblade. The knife he was carrying was totally legal for him to be carrying. False arrest is one of the many charges facing these six police officers.

[Guest]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/us/freddie-gray-autopsy-report-given-to-baltimore-prosecutors.html?_r=0


Maryland state prosecutor Mosby said the police "failed to establish probable cause for Freddie Gray's arrest, as no crime had been committed".

She went on to describe the arrest as illegal. "The knife was not a switchblade and is lawful under Maryland law".

[Guest]

Freddie Gray was arrested for carrying a switchblade, which turned out not to be a switchblade. The knife he was carrying was totally legal for him to be carrying. False arrest is one of the many charges facing these six police officers.

At some point it will be determined that not all 6 were the "arresting officer".

[Guest]

Excellent post! It would at least be much easier for those of us seriously trying to make some sense out of all of these incidents, if the perps were not fleeing or fighting the police. In that case, I would have no problem taking the side of the perp/victim no matter his race, gender, drug background or anything else if he experienced a beat down by a policeman. The underlying problem in every one of these case is that the perp did not stand down.

Yes, but on the other hand, wouldn't it also make sense for law enforcers to find other means of restraining suspects besides shooting to kill? Wouldn't it also make sense to immediately seek treatment for someone who has been shot or otherwise hurt while in custody? With body cameras and everyone in the world having video capability and an interest in filming anything controversial, cops need to be very vigilant, not to mention the pure ethical motivation.

[Guest]

Yes, but on the other hand, wouldn't it also make sense for law enforcers to find other means of restraining suspects besides shooting to kill? Wouldn't it also make sense to immediately seek treatment for someone who has been shot or otherwise hurt while in custody? With body cameras and everyone in the world having video capability and an interest in filming anything controversial, cops need to be very vigilant, not to mention the pure ethical motivation.

Can't deny what you have to say. A lot of work needs to be done on both sides of the issue. I just hate to see police as a whole being vilified. I think they have a very difficult job where they have to make very quick and often dangerous split second decisions. There are certainly "bad apples" on both sides of the fence - I would not hesitate to wager however, that the percentage is much less on the side of the police than the perpetrators. In the meantime, the best we can all do is not judge either side until all the facts are gathered and keep politics out of it. Otherwise, you can say good-bye to fairness and justice.

[Guest]

At some point it will be determined that not all 6 were the "arresting officer".


All had some role in the process that led to Gray's death. All are not facing the same charges.

[Guest]

Their will be a change in venue for the trial. The officers could very well be found not guilty of most of the charges. Other than Prince Georges County and the city of Baltimore most Marylanders like their police a lot.

[Guest]

Their will be a change in venue for the trial. The officers could very well be found not guilty of most of the charges. Other than Prince Georges County and the city of Baltimore most Marylanders like their police a lot.

You're correct. A logical next step would be to reduce police in PG county and Baltimore, while redeploying those resources elsewhere in Maryland. That way every body is happy

[Guest]

I am going to make some assumptions here:
I assume that most, if not all, the posters on here are white.
I assume that most, if not all, the posters on here are over 55.
I assume that most, if not all, the posters on here are in the middle class or above.
I assume that most, if not all, the posters on here have relatively clean, if not totally clean criminal histories.
I assume that most, if not all, the posters on here live and have lived for many years, in relatively crime-free environs.
BTW, all of those assumptions fit me.

And so, I hear many saying - just be courteous, and respectful and you will not be shot or otherwise harmed unjustly. True indeed, and easy to say, and do, for all those of us that fit the prior assumptions. In my few encounters with officers as an occasional speeder, I have been courteous and respectful and accepted my ticket without name calling or violence.

But.....what if the law officers assumed that your type fit their vision of a troublemaker? What if they treated you with disrespect and derision? What if they physically abused you without cause? What if they called you offensive names? What if you knew people who were roughed up by the law enforcers without cause? Would these things tend to make you nervous, defensive, angry? Would they possibly cause you to react in a less than courteous and respectful manner. Would they even possibly cause you to run away even though you were innocent of any wrongdoing? I don't know the answer because none of those things are in my background, but I can only guess that courtesy and respect might come a little more reluctantly. Most, if not all of us on this forum, can't even remotely relate to people who have grown up in impoverished, crime ridden, drug infested, gang dominated neighborhoods. I am not condoning bad behavior, but am simply trying to understand the problems, and am not sure I am capable. Thank you to all the great dedicated ethical devoted law enforcement officers out there who make our lives safer and easier.

[Guest]

I am going to make some assumptions here:
I assume that most, if not all, the posters on here are white.
I assume that most, if not all, the posters on here are over 55.
I assume that most, if not all, the posters on here are in the middle class or above.
I assume that most, if not all, the posters on here have relatively clean, if not totally clean criminal histories.
I assume that most, if not all, the posters on here live and have lived for many years, in relatively crime-free environs.
BTW, all of those assumptions fit me.

And so, I hear many saying - just be courteous, and respectful and you will not be shot or otherwise harmed unjustly. True indeed, and easy to say, and do, for all those of us that fit the prior assumptions. In my few encounters with officers as an occasional speeder, I have been courteous and respectful and accepted my ticket without name calling or violence.

But.....what if the law officers assumed that your type fit their vision of a troublemaker? What if they treated you with disrespect and derision? What if they physically abused you without cause? What if they called you offensive names? What if you knew people who were roughed up by the law enforcers without cause? Would these things tend to make you nervous, defensive, angry? Would they possibly cause you to react in a less than courteous and respectful manner. Would they even possibly cause you to run away even though you were innocent of any wrongdoing? I don't know the answer because none of those things are in my background, but I can only guess that courtesy and respect might come a little more reluctantly. Most, if not all of us on this forum, can't even remotely relate to people who have grown up in impoverished, crime ridden, drug infested, gang dominated neighborhoods. I am not condoning bad behavior, but am simply trying to understand the problems, and am not sure I am capable. Thank you to all the great dedicated ethical devoted law enforcement officers out there who make our lives safer and easier.

I would still be quiet, respectful and follow the officers instructions. I would go for the jugular latter, but not during the stop. Plus, I challenge you to show evidence of that ever happening in the last 20 years. I feel, that this jerk and Rodney king got their just reward.

[Guest]

Oh, sorry, I also meet all the assumptions above. If doing right for 70 years is bad, then count me guilty.

[Guest]

I would still be quiet, respectful and follow the officers instructions. I would go for the jugular latter, but not during the stop. Plus, I challenge you to show evidence of that ever happening in the last 20 years. I feel, that this jerk and Rodney king got their just reward.

You need evidence? I think any fair minded, objective, non partisan person would admit this has almost certainly happened many dozens of times. As for the jerk, he ended up dead with no medical intervention, not my idea of a just reward even for a criminal, albeit a non-violent one.

[Guest]

Oh, sorry, I also meet all the assumptions above. If doing right for 70 years is bad, then count me guilty.

Me too, I don't know about you, but I consider my self blessed.

[Guest]

...I feel, that this jerk and Rodney king got their just reward.

Well, Rodney King was awarded $3,800,000 in his civil suit against the City of Los Angeles. The family of Freddie Gray will receive at least 10 times that amount in an award from Baltimore City. Remember, that is tax free money!

Is that the just reward to which you refer?

[Guest]

Well, Rodney King was awarded $3,800,000 in his civil suit against the City of Los Angeles. The family of Freddie Gray will receive at least 10 times that amount in an award from Baltimore City. Remember, that is tax free money!

Is that the just reward to which you refer?

If left alive, he would cost more than that due to his criminal activity over the next few years.
I wonder how may tax dollars he has contributed to the city or this country. It's time to get past being politically correct and think what is best for all, black and white.

[Guest]

I am going to make some assumptions here:
I assume that most, if not all, the posters on here are white.
I assume that most, if not all, the posters on here are over 55.
I assume that most, if not all, the posters on here are in the middle class or above.
I assume that most, if not all, the posters on here have relatively clean, if not totally clean criminal histories.
I assume that most, if not all, the posters on here live and have lived for many years, in relatively crime-free environs.
BTW, all of those assumptions fit me.

And so, I hear many saying - just be courteous, and respectful and you will not be shot or otherwise harmed unjustly. True indeed, and easy to say, and do, for all those of us that fit the prior assumptions. In my few encounters with officers as an occasional speeder, I have been courteous and respectful and accepted my ticket without name calling or violence.

But.....what if the law officers assumed that your type fit their vision of a troublemaker? What if they treated you with disrespect and derision? What if they physically abused you without cause? What if they called you offensive names? What if you knew people who were roughed up by the law enforcers without cause? Would these things tend to make you nervous, defensive, angry? Would they possibly cause you to react in a less than courteous and respectful manner. Would they even possibly cause you to run away even though you were innocent of any wrongdoing? I don't know the answer because none of those things are in my background, but I can only guess that courtesy and respect might come a little more reluctantly. Most, if not all of us on this forum, can't even remotely relate to people who have grown up in impoverished, crime ridden, drug infested, gang dominated neighborhoods. I am not condoning bad behavior, but am simply trying to understand the problems, and am not sure I am capable. Thank you to all the great dedicated ethical devoted law enforcement officers out there who make our lives safer and easier.

Very thoughtful post and it has caused me to think about some things.

To your point … your assumptions fit me as well.

You’re essentially asking us to look at it from the perspective of an inner city kid. I think I can imagine the level of hopelessness those kids feel. Maybe not perfectly, but close enough to know that it’s a miserable life.

Then I ask myself two more questions:

First, how come I did well in life (along with most of the people on TOTV) and the Baltimore kids did not?

• We were all lucky to “inherit” the benefits of Western Civilization … respect for the individual, political liberty coupled with economic and religious freedom (without that, most of us would have been serfs or cannon fodder somewhere)
• We were lucky to be born in mid-20th century America
• We were lucky to, by and large, have intact two parent families that instilled basic values in us
• At that point, it was up to each of us to get an education, work hard and succeed in life.

Second, so WHAT do we do about the inner city kids so they can benefit like we did? We all know plenty of successful black people so I argue it is not a race issue but rather a class issue. I know one thing that has proven not to work … the stuff we’ve been doing for the past 50 years aka applied liberalism.

So, again, what do you think we should do about it? Even after we understand how these kids feel the way they do, there’s no way we can simply accept the anti-civilized and criminal behavior. Plus, the only people they really hurt by the rioting, looting and burning are themselves. Ironic.

[Guest]

"If left alive, he would cost more than that due to his criminal activity over the next few years."

Freddie Gray was a petty criminal with mostly selling drug paraphanalia and weed. He did have a few more serioius offenses but nothing that deserved death.

Perhaps you did not read the dollar amount right. I am guessing that Gray's family will get in excess of $38,000,000 in tax free money. That guess is based on another Baltimore prisoner who was given the rough ride and won an award for $39,000,000. He wound up a parapalgic. Gray died.

...and the cops are not responsible in any way?:ohdear:

[Guest]

Was a toxicology exam done to determine if there were drugs in his system at the time of the arrest? I can't seem to find an answer to this question.

I believe that it was Don Lemon on CNN who reported that Mr. Gray had both heroin and pot in his system at 8:30 AM no less .

[Guest]

Anyone hear if Freddie left behind any babies and Baby-Mamas for the taxpayers to support ?

[Guest]

I believe that it was Don Lemon on CNN who reported that Mr. Gray had both heroin and pot in his system at 8:30 AM no less .

Freddie Gray's death: What we know and don't know - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/22/us/baltimore-freddie-gray-what-we-know/)


This report from CNN is a few days old, but it says that the toxicology report could take weeks.